An individual skills survey at church used FEMA questions.

[Chip]

.NEW INFORMATION!

It turns out that this was not a case of the church working in league with FEMA to collect information on church members. This was just a local stake preparedness effort that apparently used survey questions compiled by FEMA. Nothing nefarious about this, afterall. Sorry for the false alarm


Do you all remember being asked to fill out a "skills survey" in church sometime in the last year or two? I do, and I remember thinking that it seemed kind of redundant, since we had done something similar a few years before, with slightly different wording.

Anyway, FEMA's "Engaging Faith-based and Community Organizations" program contains a survey that asks the same exact questions as the ones on the survey that we filled out recently at church. No mention of FEMA was made. We were just asked to fill out the surveys. The federal government has been inducing church leaders from every Christian faith to gather information about church members for FEMA.

Here is the FEMA site for this:

https://www.fema.gov/media-library-data ... ations.pdf

Look familiar? Right from the FEMA site:

[Chip]

So, I think this implies that our church is a "partner organization" of FEMA (see the top of page B-1). This is part of being a big 501(c)(3). I couldn't find any declaration of our church being involved, but it evidently is involved.

[Juliet]

I would feel violated if my church gatheres information about me to give to a third party without my informed consent. It is most likely against the law.

“No agency shall disclose any record which is contained in a system of records by any means of communication to any person, or to another agency, except pursuant to a written request by, or with the prior written consent of, the individual to whom the record pertains [subject to 12 exceptions].” 5 U.S.C.
Department of Justice (.gov) › opcl
Conditions of Disclosure to Third Parties - Overview of the Privacy ...

[Chip]

I remember thinking, "Forklift Operator"?!? "Chainsaw Operator"?!?

[EmmaLee]

I remember thinking, "Forklift Operator"?!? "Chainsaw Operator"?!?

Well, sure! We teach those things at our Relief Society Enrichment nights.
(actually, we should, lol, rather than "1,400 ways to make an oven mitt")

[LadyT]

I remember thinking, "Forklift Operator"?!? "Chainsaw Operator"?!?

My dad can do both. He can run most if not all heavy machinery. I know many people who can do this kind of thing.

[Trucker]

Yep and I refused to do it and brought it up to the Bishopric and was ridiculed for it, in Ward Council even. I sent a letter to the Stake Presidency too. Got a polite reply that there was no need to worry. IMO, the church, at various levels, has already been warned and given chances to avoid getting caught up with evil and designing men. We, as a church, have not been wise and have not followed our scriptures nor the teachings of church leaders who earlier had warned up to not be deceived. I think we will now be reaping what we sowed, and the time to change course has passed, unfortunately.

[Trucker]

I would feel violated if my church gatheres information about me to give to a third party without my informed consent. It is most likely against the law.

“No agency shall disclose any record which is contained in a system of records by any means of communication to any person, or to another agency, except pursuant to a written request by, or with the prior written consent of, the individual to whom the record pertains [subject to 12 exceptions].” 5 U.S.C.
Department of Justice (.gov) › opcl
Conditions of Disclosure to Third Parties - Overview of the Privacy ...

Regarding consent of personal information, I asked the church IT department several years ago if I was required to have a digital membership record in order to be a member of the church. I also said how I had never consented to a digital record of me and my family to be made and there were strict laws in the EU and some Asian countries about what can be done with that information. I knew several people in the department and they asked up the chain (I don't know how far) about if I could "opt out" of Digital records, and they replied that no I could not, and simply being a member of the church was considered consent for record-keeping purposes.

[Trucker]

A little off topic but I realize how I used to be so active in the church and in Utah politics trying to prevent us from going down strange paths. I told Governor Herbert directly in a conversation that electronic voting machines were a bad idea. This is when they first started coming out. I worked at the church at raised concerns there. I was there for "the shift" when Mitt Romney was running and we as a church seemed to be very interested in looking "cool" and that's when the nice, humble members were really starting to be pushed aside, and the cool, boundary-breaking members were who we wanted to highlight. I raised concerns in my ward and stake. I knew the church liaison to the Boy Scouts. None of them listened. But I don't do any of that now. That ship has sailed. I just bring this up because to me it is a very sad story of how we have strayed. It's not like we didn't know, or that it was done ignorance. We willingly have given up our birthright for the praise of the world. And it makes me very sad.

[Chip]

Think about this...

FEMA tapped the church to get its members to fill out their skills survey for their own purposes. The church complied by stripping the FEMA identifiers from the survey and passing it out in Elders Quorum, to be filled out, under the guise that the church was in need of the information for its own emergency-planning efforts.

This had to have come down through the stake leadership, probably bypassing bishops. "Brother so-and-so from the stake will need about 15 minutes in the Elders Quorum next Sunday."

[David13]

I had thought exactly of this when I saw that survey, and DID NOT filll it out.
dc

[mahalanobis]

I never saw this survey. I've missed probably 2 or 3 Sundays this year (before the covid shutdown), so perhaps I just wasn't there that day.

Do we know what states/regions were given this survey?

[Art Vandelay]

I never saw this survey. I've missed probably 2 or 3 Sundays this year (before the covid shutdown), so perhaps I just wasn't there that day.

Do we know what states/regions were given this survey?

I vaguely recall a survey about 5+ years ago. No proof it was FEMA related. I remember being told it was for the Stake in case of a natural disaster or other emergency.

[Chip]

I never saw this survey. I've missed probably 2 or 3 Sundays this year (before the covid shutdown), so perhaps I just wasn't there that day.

Do we know what states/regions were given this survey?

I vaguely recall a survey about 5+ years ago. No proof it was FEMA related. I remember being told it was for the Stake in case of a natural disaster or other emergency.

Yes, we had that one about 5 years ago, too. It was a sensible survey for the church. Then, we had this new one with the bizarre FEMA questions on it. The church had never asked those questions before, but I recognized them right away when I read that FEMA document earlier today.

I, too, am reticent to think that the church is actually up to stuff like this. The implications are no good. Add the Agenda 2030 support, which is touted in church newsroom articles, and this all makes sad sense.

This morning I was listening to a new video by that Mark Taylor guy I've mentioned a few times. I think God is using him, being the regular guy that he is. Mark was warning people to get out of the 501(c)(3) churches that are covenanted with Ba'al. He showed the top page of this FEMA document in the video and I looked it up and was kind of surprised to find those strange survey questions that the church had us answer within the last year or two. Not totally surprised about things like this, anymore. Here is that video if anyone wants to watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35bhMRiTk9s

[Chip]

I read more of that FEMA document and the survey was actually for partner organizations to do their own internal assessments. The info probably wasn't turned over to FEMA. At least, that document doesn't talk about that possibility.

[Robin Hood]

It must be an America only thing.
We haven't had anything like this here.
We did do a stake sponsored skills audit about 12 years ago, which is probably gathering dust somewhere now and will be out of date.

[NewEliza]

I remember thinking, "Forklift Operator"?!? "Chainsaw Operator"?!?

Well, sure! We teach those things at our Relief Society Enrichment nights.
(actually, we should, lol, rather than "1,400 ways to make an oven mitt")

Woah woah woah


Making oven mitts is awesome

[AnotherLDSPatriot]

Does anybody remember being told in the past, when stake directories were small booklets, that using church membership rolls for anything other than church purposes was not permitted?

Now, to play devil's advocate, what if somebody, even a government-run organization, had already created a form that asked for the kind of information I needed to know about people within my ward or stake? And why shouldn't ward or stake leadership know who has particular skills? Why should I reinvent the wheel to create a form when I can find one that's already created that serves the same purpose? If I can find what I'm looking for in a few minutes, great; if I have to look for hours or days to find one, I've wasted my time when I could/should have been creating the form I need. That said, it's one thing entirely to use that outside form to gather useful information but restrict its use to internal purposes only, but it's something entirely different to use that same form to gather information from church members, then turn it over to the owner of the form. That's a wholesale violation of trust.

A better choice would have been to use the form as a template, change it as appropriate for the specific need, create new header/footer information specific to your organization, then keep it internal.

That said, I agree with the premise of his thread: we know that we are subject to presidents, kings, rulers, magistrates in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law. According to the U.S. Constitution, all laws passed which are NOT in pursuance thereof (re: they disavow constitutional principles or are not in harmony with the Constitution) are not law. FEMA is not constitutional. Therefore, while I may willingly serve my community and neighborhood by contributing my skills to preparation and/or cleanup in the event of a disaster, as many Saints already do in areas that are hit by natural disasters, using the Church's organization to collect information on the people possessing those skills and abilities and providing them to an unconstitutional and arguably mismanaged government organization to use for its own purposes is unwise.

[mudflap]

must have missed church that week.

But why didn't they ask questions like "who knows how to reeve blocks for block and tackle?"

[Art Vandelay]

Has anyone been to church and filled out the form chip is referencing? I haven't and nobody else seems to either. I asked my mom and 2 of my brothers and they haven't either. I'll keep asking around.

It looks like it was probably Chip's local ward or stake wanting to know the skills of it's members and found and used the FEMA form instead of creating their own.

[mudflap]

Has anyone been to church and filled out the form chip is referencing? I haven't and nobody else seems to either. I asked my mom and 2 of my brothers and they haven't either. I'll keep asking around.

It looks like it was probably Chip's local ward or stake wanting to know the skills of it's members and found and used the FEMA form instead of creating their own.

that's what I'm thinking. it might be "benign". keep yer eyes open, though.

The form they passed around in our stake was completely different- they wanted to know who had what food storage. As I was filling it out, the stake councilman was droning on, and then said, ".....in case the stake decides to commandeer your food storage...". Maybe he just uses the wrong words, I don't know, but I stopped filling in the form and didn't turn it in. I just don't like how cozy the church is with the UN and other global organizations and I don't really know what this was all about. Now if my bishop comes to me and says, "Brother X, sister so-and-so has no food in her house, can you help her?" The answer will be a generous "yes." Although my bishop is nearly a millennial himself, I think he is humble, and really tries to listen to the Spirit. He's been very generous with his talents in my regards over the years, bishop or not.

[Pazooka]

Has anyone been to church and filled out the form chip is referencing? I haven't and nobody else seems to either. I asked my mom and 2 of my brothers and they haven't either. I'll keep asking around.

It looks like it was probably Chip's local ward or stake wanting to know the skills of it's members and found and used the FEMA form instead of creating their own.

Our ward was asked to fill out those forms probably within the last 3 or 4 years.

[Juliet]

I would feel violated if my church gatheres information about me to give to a third party without my informed consent. It is most likely against the law.

“No agency shall disclose any record which is contained in a system of records by any means of communication to any person, or to another agency, except pursuant to a written request by, or with the prior written consent of, the individual to whom the record pertains [subject to 12 exceptions].” 5 U.S.C.
Department of Justice (.gov) › opcl
Conditions of Disclosure to Third Parties - Overview of the Privacy ...

Regarding consent of personal information, I asked the church IT department several years ago if I was required to have a digital membership record in order to be a member of the church. I also said how I had never consented to a digital record of me and my family to be made and there were strict laws in the EU and some Asian countries about what can be done with that information. I knew several people in the department and they asked up the chain (I don't know how far) about if I could "opt out" of Digital records, and they replied that no I could not, and simply being a member of the church was considered consent for record-keeping purposes.

Consent for keeping records and consent for giving records to a third party are two different things and the latter is illegal.

Giving your records to the church is absolutely not consent for the church to use that information and give it to a third party. It is fine for the church to have my baptismal records or even a record of my skills so we can move toward consecrated living. But giving that information to FEMA is a violation of privacy of that information.

[Juliet]

Has anyone been to church and filled out the form chip is referencing? I haven't and nobody else seems to either. I asked my mom and 2 of my brothers and they haven't either. I'll keep asking around.

It looks like it was probably Chip's local ward or stake wanting to know the skills of it's members and found and used the FEMA form instead of creating their own.

Let's hope so, but it would be nice to find out for sure. The fact that it came from FEMA means there is most likely a connection with their organization.

[EmmaLee]

The form they passed around in our stake was completely different- they wanted to know who had what food storage. As I was filling it out, the stake councilman was droning on, and then said, ".....in case the stake decides to commandeer your food storage...".

Well, so much for that pesky thing called agency....