Is It The Whisperings Of Satan, Or A Revelation From God Through The Holy Ghost?

[jbalm]

Where did Jesus mention paying tithing or living the word of wisdom in relation to avoid being found on the left hand? I read about ME loving and serving others as being important factors in that judgment, not whether I'm a "full tithe payer" in a corporation. Matthew 25.

Probably in the D&C. That's where all the nasty details are found.

(D&C came from Jesus, right?)

[Thinker]

"D&C 84:35-38

35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;
36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;
37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him

.

By the same token, he who rejects His servants rejects Christ, and him who rejects Christ rejects the Father, and him who rejects the Father rejects all the Father has."

Great scriptures and commentary!

Thanks for posting.

What if "my servants" =/= LDS PSRs?
Could there be other servants in the world that are outside the LDS circle?

Good question, and I think it is obviously YES!

This reminds me of another's post about lost sheep, and whether we've interpreted lost or not lost correctly.
Statistically, as members of the church, active members are more like 1%.
I'm not saying the church "loses" people - but can make them luke warm - too comfortable in tradition rather than spiritual growth.
And those who "wander" may not be "lost" but may be on the narrow, less popular, way.

[Obrien]

Thanks for your thoughts, Thinker. I agree with you.

I was hoping to touch Tony and / or Alighieri, too.

[Tony]

So, you are saying that David Whitmer could have actually received a witness from the Holy Ghost that the Doctrine and Covenants are God's word, but Satan told David Whitmer to lie about knowing the Doctrine and Covenants is God's word, and David Whitmer thought it would be a good idea to go with what Satan wants instead of testifying to the truth?

No, I thought you were saying that David Whitmer was telling the truth when he said he had some kind of witness regarding the Doctrine and Covenants that he interpreted as a witness from God, only he was deceived and listening to Satan (who was bearing false witness.)

Isn't that what you were saying?

Why would you be more inclined to believe that, than to believe he was just lying?

They gave heed to Satan's whisperings. Their lack of faith caused them to believe that the whisperings of Satan were revelations from God.

Again, why would you believe this, instead of believing that Whitmer was lying (and that any followers who claimed to have a witness were lying)?

Once again, God allows Satan to tempt everyone. Their lack of faith causes them to believe that the whisperings of Satan are testimonies of the Holy Ghost. They are like the children of Israel who built the golden calf while Moses was up on the mountain. These people have been blinded and have wandered off into forbidden paths.

She said.

My body is burning from head to foot. It leaves at times, but as soon as I turn my focus back to Christ, I am filled again. I know this is the physical effects of the Holy Ghost. The last time I experienced this was after Denver’s eight and ninth lectures. It lasted for about 2 weeks.

Are you saying she may be telling the truth, and that Satan can mimic God in that way?

Do you have any scriptural evidence that Satan can do that?

Regarding David Whitmer, God wanted him to believe the Doctrine and Covenants is the word of God revealed to Joseph Smith. Satan told him it was not the word of God.

Satan deceives people into believing his lies. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan. Scriptures show us that Satan can deceive people into believing someone is Christ.

In Matthew 24:5, Christ said, “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Paul told the Corinthians that there are “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” – 2 Corinthians 11:13-14

He told the Romans that there are those who “by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple,” and they “cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine.” – Romans 16:17-18

Paul thought it necessary to warn the Hebrews about Satan’s ability to convince people that false doctrines are true, telling them to “be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.” – Hebrews 13:9

He warned the Colossian saints: “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” – Colossians 2:8

Latter-day Saints who go against God’s prophet on the earth have been deceived by Satan. If they claim that the Holy Ghost told them to go against the prophet, then it is quite obvious that Satan has convinced them to follow after “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

[inquirringmind]

So, you are saying that David Whitmer could have actually received a witness from the Holy Ghost that the Doctrine and Covenants are God's word, but Satan told David Whitmer to lie about knowing the Doctrine and Covenants is God's word, and David Whitmer thought it would be a good idea to go with what Satan wants instead of testifying to the truth?

No, I thought you were saying that David Whitmer was telling the truth when he said he had some kind of witness regarding the Doctrine and Covenants that he interpreted as a witness from God, only he was deceived and listening to Satan (who was bearing false witness.)

Isn't that what you were saying?

Why would you be more inclined to believe that, than to believe he was just lying?

They gave heed to Satan's whisperings. Their lack of faith caused them to believe that the whisperings of Satan were revelations from God.

Again, why would you believe this, instead of believing that Whitmer was lying (and that any followers who claimed to have a witness were lying)?

Once again, God allows Satan to tempt everyone. Their lack of faith causes them to believe that the whisperings of Satan are testimonies of the Holy Ghost. They are like the children of Israel who built the golden calf while Moses was up on the mountain. These people have been blinded and have wandered off into forbidden paths.

She said.

My body is burning from head to foot. It leaves at times, but as soon as I turn my focus back to Christ, I am filled again. I know this is the physical effects of the Holy Ghost. The last time I experienced this was after Denver’s eight and ninth lectures. It lasted for about 2 weeks.

Are you saying she may be telling the truth, and that Satan can mimic God in that way?

Do you have any scriptural evidence that Satan can do that?

Regarding David Whitmer, God wanted him to believe the Doctrine and Covenants is the word of God revealed to Joseph Smith. Satan told him it was not the word of God.

Satan deceives people into believing his lies. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan. Scriptures show us that Satan can deceive people into believing someone is Christ.

In Matthew 24:5, Christ said, “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Paul told the Corinthians that there are “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” – 2 Corinthians 11:13-14

He told the Romans that there are those who “by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple,” and they “cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine.” – Romans 16:17-18

Paul thought it necessary to warn the Hebrews about Satan’s ability to convince people that false doctrines are true, telling them to “be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.” – Hebrews 13:9

He warned the Colossian saints: “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” – Colossians 2:8

Latter-day Saints who go against God’s prophet on the earth have been deceived by Satan. If they claim that the Holy Ghost told them to go against the prophet, then it is quite obvious that Satan has convinced them to follow after “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

But what about those (like Tausha Larsen, in that quote from Tim Malone's blog) who say they've felt the burning in the bosom?

Are you saying Satan can mimic that physical manifestation?

[A Random Phrase]

What if "my servants" =/= LDS PSRs?
Could there be other servants in the world that are outside the LDS circle?

You mean like the ten lost tribes who will show up at some time with their prophets? Or men like John and the three Nephites? Or, perhaps, "holy men ye know not of"?

I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes. Wherefore, I will that all men shall repent, for all are under sin, except those which I have reserved unto myself, holy men that ye know not of.
D&C 49:7-8

[Obrien]

What if "my servants" =/= LDS PSRs?
Could there be other servants in the world that are outside the LDS circle?

You mean like the ten lost tribes who will show up at some time with their prophets? Or men like John and the three Nephites? Or, perhaps, "holy men ye know not of"?

I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes. Wherefore, I will that all men shall repent, for all are under sin, except those which I have reserved unto myself, holy men that ye know not of.
D&C 49:7-8

Yeah, kinda like that.
Or John the plumber down the street, or Maria the cook at a takeout joint or Sam the guy who changes oil at Jiffy lube. There are lots of true servants, for a true servant is someone who serves the Master. They don't all wear shirts and ties.

[pjbrownie]

I love David Whitmer's testimony, and honestly, what's happening in the Church today, makes him seem like a prophet all the more, as he was able to see the LDS rejecting the fullness of the gospel as prophesied in 3 Nephi 16. David Whitmer left the Church because they tried to kill him in Missouri; he probably would have stayed if Sydney didn't have it out for him. I certainly don't blame him. I think he was wrong about Joseph being a fallen prophet, if anything he got it mixed up, Joseph became a prophet to a fallen people, like Moses did, not because of anything Joseph did, but because of the people.

Of all the pretenders and contenders for the LDS empire after Joseph's death, his quiet ministry in the Church of Christ was the most unpretentious.

He did NOT say the Doctrine and Covenants was not the word of God. He said that after the Book of Commandments (the original D&C) there were too many changes and false revelations for it to be trusted. I can see his point, since after 1832, the Church was under condemnation and revelations given, specifically for Church governance, were given to a people living a lower law precisely because they rejected the fullness of the Gospel in the Book of Mormon. And revelations were altered and changed to fit Brigham's narrative. The original Book of Commandments are scripture to his church.

If I was alive in late 1800's, I would have taken Whitmer's Church of Christ, over Brigham's polygamist, murdering, secret combinations based kingdom of Deseret, or the tip-toeing RLDS Church of Joseph III. Whitmer's seems to have the best of the original spirit of the Restoration, even with all of it's own errors and misconceptions.

For those that want to learn more about his testimony, you can find it here: http://www.weepingforzion.com/david-whi ... -delusion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for sharing this.
It makes me want to look into it more.
I've heard that Brigham Young, like Paul - took the church in a direction that wasn't as Christ-like, but many followed.
Then after years of tradition, people assume that it's the only way.

I've never heard that about Paul. I've never liked, however, that his writings dominate the New Testament, when there were other people with equally valid testimonies, particularly Peter, James, and John.

In reality John was translated, so I kind of like to lean on his stuff a little more

[pjbrownie]

Tony, no offense, but you sound like a correlated manual. I've never felt any charity in you. It destroys any ability you have to touch hearts.

Is your purpose to dust you feet off here or to lovingly invite back to understand?

[pjbrownie]

For those that want to learn more about his testimony, you can find it here: http://www.weepingforzion.com/david-whi ... -delusion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Excellent post PJ! Thanks for the link, I am finding all kinds of gems. Like this one...

Joseph was at my father’s house when they returned. I was there also, and am an eye witness to these facts. Jacob Whitmer and John Whitmer were also present when Hiram Page and Oliver Cowdery returned from Canada. Well, we were all in great trouble; and we asked Joseph how it was that he had received a revelation from the Lord for some brethren to go to Toronto and sell the copy-right, and the brethren had utterly failed in their undertaking. Joseph did not know how it was, so he enquired of the Lord about it, and behold the following revelation came through the stone: “Some revelations are of God: some revelations are of men: and some revelations are of the devil.” So we see that the revelation to go to Toronto and sell the copy-right was not of God, but was of the devil or of the heart of man. When a man enquires of the Lord concerning a matter, if he is deceived by his own carnal desires, and is in error, he will receive an answer according to his erring heart, but it will not be a revelation from the Lord. This was a lesson for our benefit and we should have profited by it in future more than we did. Without much explanation you can see the error of Hyrum Smith in thinking evil of Martin Harris without a cause, and desiring to leave him out in the publication of the Book; and also the error of Brother Joseph in listening to the persuasions of men and enquiring of the Lord to see if they might not go to Toronto to sell the copy-right of the Book of Mormon, when it was made known to Brother Joseph that the will of the Lord was to have Martin Harris raise the money.

http://www.weepingforzion.com/david-whi ... st-part-9/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(4th paragraph)

Any thoughts?

I would only add, and this is where I disagree with Whitmer, that God can give those commandments of men, just like he did to Moses. They are INTENDED to fail, because we ask asmiss. I would go so far as to say that Joseph understood this . . . how could he have not, he got the revelation concerning the Church being under condemnation! He was often revealing commandments of men, or lower law commandments, only intended to teach lessons, not unto salvation. Some of those lessons are hard to bear.

Whitmer believed Joseph was a fallen prophet. I believe Joseph knew exactly what he was doing, that it was from the Lord, but that because of the sad state of affairs of the church, He could not reveal more.

[Tony]

Regarding David Whitmer, God wanted him to believe the Doctrine and Covenants is the word of God revealed to Joseph Smith. Satan told him it was not the word of God.

Satan deceives people into believing his lies. People are deceived because they do not know they are listening to Satan. Scriptures show us that Satan can deceive people into believing someone is Christ.

In Matthew 24:5, Christ said, “For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.”

Paul told the Corinthians that there are “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” – 2 Corinthians 11:13-14

He told the Romans that there are those who “by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple,” and they “cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine.” – Romans 16:17-18

Paul thought it necessary to warn the Hebrews about Satan’s ability to convince people that false doctrines are true, telling them to “be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.” – Hebrews 13:9

He warned the Colossian saints: “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” – Colossians 2:8

Latter-day Saints who go against God’s prophet on the earth have been deceived by Satan. If they claim that the Holy Ghost told them to go against the prophet, then it is quite obvious that Satan has convinced them to follow after “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

But what about those (like Tausha Larsen, in that quote from Tim Malone's blog) who say they've felt the burning in the bosom?

Are you saying Satan can mimic that physical manifestation?

The Prophet Joseph Smith explained:

“One great evil is that men are ignorant of the nature of spirits; their power, laws, government, intelligence, etc., and imagine that when there is anything like power, revelation, or vision manifested that it must be of God.

“Hence the Methodists, Presbyterians, and others frequently possess a spirit that will cause them to lie down, and during its operation, animation is frequently entirely suspended; they consider it to be the power of God, and a glorious manifestation from God—a manifestation of what? Is there any intelligence communicated? Are the curtains of heaven withdrawn, or the purposes of God developed? Have they seen and conversed with an angel—or have the glories of futurity burst upon their view? No! but their body has been inanimate, the operation of their spirit suspended, and all the intelligence that can be obtained from them when they arise, is a shout of ‘glory,’ or ‘hallelujah,’ or some incoherent expression; but they have had ‘the power.’

“The Shaker will whirl around on his heel, impelled by a supernatural agency or spirit, and think that he is governed by the Spirit of God; and the Jumper will jump and enter into all kinds of extravagances. A Primitive Methodist will shout under the influence of that spirit, until he will rend the heavens with his cries; while the Quakers (or Friends) moved as they think, by the Spirit of God, will sit still and say nothing.”

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has also had its false spirits . . . it is not to be wondered at if there should be found among us false spirits.

“Soon after the Gospel was established in Kirtland, and during the absence of the authorities of the Church, many false spirits were introduced, many strange visions were seen, and wild, enthusiastic notions were entertained; men ran out of doors under the influence of this spirit, and some of them got upon the stumps of trees and shouted, and all kinds of extravagances were entered into by them; one man pursued a ball that he said he saw flying in the air, until he came to a precipice, when he jumped into the top of a tree, which saved his life; and many ridiculous things were entered into, calculated to bring disgrace upon the Church of God, to cause the Spirit of God to be withdrawn, and to uproot and destroy those glorious principles which had been developed for the salvation of the human family. But when the authorities returned, the spirit was made manifest, those members that were exercised with it were tried for their fellowship, and those that would not repent and forsake it were cut off.

“At a subsequent period a Shaker spirit was on the point of being introduced, and at another time the Methodist and Presbyterian falling down power . . . . We have also had brethren and sisters who have had the gift of tongues falsely; they would speak in a muttering, unnatural voice, and their bodies be distorted like the Irvingites before alluded to; whereas, there is nothing unnatural in the Spirit of God . . . . There have also been ministering angels in the Church which were of Satan appearing as an angel of light.”

[Zathura]

Tony = Franco?

[Lizzy60]

Tony = Franco?

Yep. See my PM.