Multiple Mortal Probations Article

[DesertWonderer2]

Alaris: Lucifer carried the fruit to Eve. Did he have a body or was this symbolic? Or was this an error? He has on robes and an apron in the latest video - was this a mistake or a deliberate to show Lucifer's own progression? I believe these touches were absolutely deliberate. I know it. Even the text or wording of the endowment indicates he is carrying the fruit of the tree.

Lizzy60: So where and when did Peter, James and John get those physical bodies that shook hands with Adam? How can they be True Messengers sent from Father if they are still first-estate beings who have never proven themselves faithful during a second-state probation?

If you do a little more research in the scriptures, you will also discover that Lucifer, a Son of the Morning, was not a "first-estate" being. He had progressed very far in order to fall to the greatest depths. We teach this in the LDS Church when we teach that in order to become a Son of Perdition one must first have received Priesthood and the Second Comforter. The same principle applies to the Father of Lies, Lucifer.

The examples you both cite are symbolic and not intended to be taken literally. Again the ONLY way to justify this false doctrine taken from Eastern philosophies is to GROSSLY misinterpret scripture.

[watchthewatchers]

Wow. There are some people around this place that think they are the ones. No one is king of that hill about it like alaris. He isn't being deceived by the philosophies of men mingled with scripture - he's being deceived by the only voice he can hear - the voice of alaris - mingled with scripture. I'm somewhat excited for the day when he starts peddling his own books, possibly going on a delete rampage with all his posts here, maybe even starting his own sect. It would seem that along his journey, he had the off button permanently disabled from his God complex.

That aside, this reincarnation thing is much more simpler than everyone's beaten it to death about. (And we really should quite trying to put lipstick on a pig and pretend we're not talking about reincarnation. Trying to make it Ok by giving it a politically correct name of multiple mortal probations is nothing other than calling good evil and evil good). The underlying concept to it all is trying to come up with a way so that everybody gets the Celestial Kindgom. Nobody gets lost no matter what. Because they can just keep being reincarnated until they've gotten the Celestial executive bathroom key. Its actually an issue with religion and afterlife beliefs overall. And especially an issue in the modern day when everybody demands that everybody get a 1st place trophy. Why is everybody so horridly afraid of the afterlife that they have to come up with all kinds of panicky ideas to soften the blow of death??

Well life is harsh, and it sucks sometimes. Not everybody is worthy for 1st place. Not everybody is worthy for 2nd or 3rd. Not everybody is going to make it. Not everybody will be there. God has already lost 30 someodd billion of his kids. You want to become God-like? Get used to loss. Get used to everybody not making it. Get used to everybody not becoming good enough to make the cut. Get used to it happening to your closest loved ones. That's just what might happen........

If we carry out this reincarnation fantasy to the very long eternal span, eventually, everybody will make it. Which makes an existence of Hell pointless. (In addition to any lesser degrees of glory.) We'll finally get to the point where there is no hell. There's a scripture for that, 2 Nephi 28:30 "And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance."
Dare I say that alaris even goes so far as to flatterth himself? I think I'll ponderize for a while who that would make him like.

There's also the scriptures talking specifically how once dead no labor can be performed any longer (Alma 34:14, John 9:4), and even no increase inside the Celestial Kingdom (D&C 131:4). No, reincarnation, nor whatever your pet version of it is, is not scriptural. Until God redacts his scriptures, I'll be very confident in siding with them, over any other source.

Right, right. alaris is going to cry and try and play the appeal to pity fallacy card. Everyone's so mean to him, he must be right! Continually, alaris is self-deluded that, because he gets mocked, ridiculed, scorned, laughed at, that somehow makes him right, or, at the very least, adds support to his ideas. A Galileo Gambit isn't going to garner you a win. I'll let Carl Sagan join into the denouncing, "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers [they laughed at the prophets]. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

[Spaced_Out]

D&C 138:15 I beheld that they were filled with joy and gladness, and were rejoicing together because the day of their deliverance was at hand.
16 They were assembled awaiting the advent of the Son of God into the spirit world, to declare their redemption from the bands of death.
17 Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy.
18 While this vast multitude waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance from the chains of death, the Son of God appeared, declaring liberty to the captives who had been faithful;

Again Christ declared to the righteous dead from Adam down to Christ their redemption and fullness of Joy - Christ lied to them as they could not receive a fullness of joy as they were to again be separated from their bodies in many more multitude of probation's.

D&C93
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.
35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

You can keep quoting the same scriptures if youd like. There's no debate over the state of the resurrection or the fact there is a final resurrection or even that the resurrection is needed for a fulness of joy. There's just a lot more to it than that, especially for those on the path to exaltation. Grace to grace.. Exaltation to exaltation... Until... Until..... Until you attain to the resurrection of the dead and sit enthroned in glory and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings the same as all God's before you. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

You now preach more than one resurrection - abomination of a doctrine, wild imagination, Christ is the stumbling block for the house of Israel - you have now stumbled and failed...

Every person on earth receives a final resurrection prior to the final judgement, prior to the world being celstrilaised at the end of the millennium. There is no second resurrection. Grace to grace progression does not require mortal life in order to progress - in fact only Christ progressed grace to grace as he did so without sinning. Born on earth without perfection but progressed towards perfection without sinning that is Grace to grace. We progress the same way but sin along the way and have to repent of the sins in order to continue. The scriptures are clear if we leave this mortal life in a repentant state we are saved and gain eternal life.

There is nothing more to it, also you are sorely mistaken there is no progression from exaltation to exaltation, it is false doctrine and make a mockery of Heaven. There is only one exaltation..
Back to primary - one has to learn the basics prior to progression on to mysteries of the kingdom, you cant bypass the basices.

Exaltation https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-princ ... n?lang=eng
What is exaltation?

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.
If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children (see D&C 14:7).

As to a burning pillar of fire, that happens a the second coming when all the righteous will return with Christ and be clothed/resurrected as him.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:12
12 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father, that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments, and none else.
13 For a trump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the earth shall quake, and they shall come forth—yea, even the dead which died in me, to receive a crown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, even as I am, to be with me, that we may be one.

Again false doctrine we become one with Christ and live as he lives and enter his bosom all the righteous at the second coming - no we don't have to undergo any other resurrection or mortal probation to be crowned and and one with the master to live in his Glory - it all happens at the second coming... To preach otherwise is very deceitful and a lie and inspired of Satan,

[Alaris]

D&C 138:15 I beheld that they were filled with joy and gladness, and were rejoicing together because the day of their deliverance was at hand.
16 They were assembled awaiting the advent of the Son of God into the spirit world, to declare their redemption from the bands of death.
17 Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy.
18 While this vast multitude waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance from the chains of death, the Son of God appeared, declaring liberty to the captives who had been faithful;

Again Christ declared to the righteous dead from Adam down to Christ their redemption and fullness of Joy - Christ lied to them as they could not receive a fullness of joy as they were to again be separated from their bodies in many more multitude of probation's.

D&C93
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.
35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

You can keep quoting the same scriptures if youd like. There's no debate over the state of the resurrection or the fact there is a final resurrection or even that the resurrection is needed for a fulness of joy. There's just a lot more to it than that, especially for those on the path to exaltation. Grace to grace.. Exaltation to exaltation... Until... Until..... Until you attain to the resurrection of the dead and sit enthroned in glory and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings the same as all God's before you. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

You now preach more than one resurrection - abomination of a doctrine, wild imagination, Christ is the stumbling block for the house of Israel - you have now stumbled and failed...

Every person on earth receives a final resurrection prior to the final judgement, prior to the world being celstrilaised at the end of the millennium. There is no second resurrection. Grace to grace progression does not require mortal life in order to progress - in fact only Christ progressed grace to grace as he did so without sinning. Born on earth without perfection but progressed towards perfection without sinning that is Grace to grace. We progress the same way but sin along the way and have to repent of the sins in order to continue. The scriptures are clear if we leave this mortal life in a repentant state we are saved and gain eternal life.

There is nothing more to it, also you are sorely mistaken there is no progression from exaltation to exaltation, it is false doctrine and make a mockery of Heaven. There is only one exaltation..
Back to primary - one has to learn the basics prior to progression on to mysteries of the kingdom, you cant bypass the basices.

Exaltation https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-princ ... n?lang=eng
What is exaltation?

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.
If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children (see D&C 14:7).

As to a burning pillar of fire, that happens a the second coming when all the righteous will return with Christ and be clothed/resurrected as him.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:12
12 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father, that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments, and none else.
13 For a trump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the earth shall quake, and they shall come forth—yea, even the dead which died in me, to receive a crown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, even as I am, to be with me, that we may be one.

Again false doctrine we become one with Christ and live as he lives and enter his bosom all the righteous at the second coming - no we don't have to undergo any other resurrection or mortal probation to be crowned and and one with the master to live in his Glory - it all happens at the second coming... To preach otherwise is very deceitful and a lie and inspired of Satan,

It's interesting how you quote scriptures that underscore MMP seemingly without realizing it.

Let's say you are right and we are standing by the Bar of Jehovah. I will be happy to give you a fair nod to you and all the other friends I've made in this thread.

There is no deceit nor lie from me. Any unbiased reader can see that. However there have been many attempts to twist and misstate, misrepresent etc. my words which really was amusing to me for a time as you can see in my comments. After reading Alma 12, I am genuinely sorry for you all. You've said "we have enough" until the adversary has gotten you all bound by chains. Pray for the blood of Christ to save you from your awful situation and immediately his saving grace will begin to take effect. The scripture is clear. Youre either receiving until the perfect day or you're devolving until you are encircled by the chains of hell.

These clear, obvious attempts to incite me to anger along with the clearly contentious language reveals the chains which bind you.

There is no way to be one with Christ without walking His walk some day. This is what D&C 29 and John 17 are about. Taking the high priests of Melchizedek and elevating them to Godhood. From there they must pass a probation as Holy Ghost before they can perform a same or similar course as the Son... Exactly as Joseph Smith taught. There is still nothing you've shared that is easily synthesized with the truth of mmp. You know this so I can only imagine you're hoping to wear me down, incite me to anger, or just hope you've gotten that precious last word.

Youre a smart man and a good man I believe. I hope these chains are acknowledged and cast aside, and I will pray for you and your family.

[Silver]

D&C 138:15 I beheld that they were filled with joy and gladness, and were rejoicing together because the day of their deliverance was at hand.
16 They were assembled awaiting the advent of the Son of God into the spirit world, to declare their redemption from the bands of death.
17 Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy.
18 While this vast multitude waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance from the chains of death, the Son of God appeared, declaring liberty to the captives who had been faithful;

Again Christ declared to the righteous dead from Adam down to Christ their redemption and fullness of Joy - Christ lied to them as they could not receive a fullness of joy as they were to again be separated from their bodies in many more multitude of probation's.

D&C93
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.
35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

You can keep quoting the same scriptures if youd like. There's no debate over the state of the resurrection or the fact there is a final resurrection or even that the resurrection is needed for a fulness of joy. There's just a lot more to it than that, especially for those on the path to exaltation. Grace to grace.. Exaltation to exaltation... Until... Until..... Until you attain to the resurrection of the dead and sit enthroned in glory and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings the same as all God's before you. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

You now preach more than one resurrection - abomination of a doctrine, wild imagination, Christ is the stumbling block for the house of Israel - you have now stumbled and failed...

Every person on earth receives a final resurrection prior to the final judgement, prior to the world being celstrilaised at the end of the millennium. There is no second resurrection. Grace to grace progression does not require mortal life in order to progress - in fact only Christ progressed grace to grace as he did so without sinning. Born on earth without perfection but progressed towards perfection without sinning that is Grace to grace. We progress the same way but sin along the way and have to repent of the sins in order to continue. The scriptures are clear if we leave this mortal life in a repentant state we are saved and gain eternal life.

There is nothing more to it, also you are sorely mistaken there is no progression from exaltation to exaltation, it is false doctrine and make a mockery of Heaven. There is only one exaltation..
Back to primary - one has to learn the basics prior to progression on to mysteries of the kingdom, you cant bypass the basices.

Exaltation https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-princ ... n?lang=eng
What is exaltation?

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.
If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children (see D&C 14:7).

As to a burning pillar of fire, that happens a the second coming when all the righteous will return with Christ and be clothed/resurrected as him.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:12
12 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father, that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments, and none else.
13 For a trump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the earth shall quake, and they shall come forth—yea, even the dead which died in me, to receive a crown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, even as I am, to be with me, that we may be one.

Again false doctrine we become one with Christ and live as he lives and enter his bosom all the righteous at the second coming - no we don't have to undergo any other resurrection or mortal probation to be crowned and and one with the master to live in his Glory - it all happens at the second coming... To preach otherwise is very deceitful and a lie and inspired of Satan,

It's interesting how you quote scriptures that underscore MMP seemingly without realizing it.

Let's say you are right and we are standing by the Bar of Jehovah. I will be happy to give you a fair nod to you and all the other friends I've made in this thread.

There is no deceit nor lie from me. Any unbiased reader can see that. However there have been many attempts to twist and misstate, misrepresent etc. my words which really was amusing to me for a time as you can see in my comments. After reading Alma 12, I am genuinely sorry for you all. You've said "we have enough" until the adversary has gotten you all bound by chains. Pray for the blood of Christ to save you from your awful situation and immediately his saving grace will begin to take effect. The scripture is clear. Youre either receiving until the perfect day or you're devolving until you are encircled by the chains of hell.

These clear, obvious attempts to incite me to anger along with the clearly contentious language reveals the chains which bind you.

There is no way to be one with Christ without walking His walk some day. This is what D&C 29 and John 17 are about. Taking the high priests of Melchizedek and elevating them to Godhood. From there they must pass a probation as Holy Ghost before they can perform a same or similar course as the Son... Exactly as Joseph Smith taught. There is still nothing you've shared that is easily synthesized with the truth of mmp. You know this so I can only imagine you're hoping to wear me down, incite me to anger, or just hope you've gotten that precious last word.

Youre a smart man and a good man I believe. I hope these chains are acknowledged and cast aside, and I will pray for you and your family.

Flattering words. Reminds me of the apostates in the Book of Mormon. The scriptures used by Spaced Out do not prove MMP although you prefer to mistakenly interpret them that way. The apostles and prophets oppose what you're preaching which makes you an apostate as well. Go see your bishop.

[Alaris]

Wow. There are some people around this place that think they are the ones. No one is king of that hill about it like alaris. He isn't being deceived by the philosophies of men mingled with scripture - he's being deceived by the only voice he can hear - the voice of alaris - mingled with scripture. I'm somewhat excited for the day when he starts peddling his own books, possibly going on a delete rampage with all his posts here, maybe even starting his own sect. It would seem that along his journey, he had the off button permanently disabled from his God complex.

That aside, this reincarnation thing is much more simpler than everyone's beaten it to death about. (And we really should quite trying to put lipstick on a pig and pretend we're not talking about reincarnation. Trying to make it Ok by giving it a politically correct name of multiple mortal probations is nothing other than calling good evil and evil good). The underlying concept to it all is trying to come up with a way so that everybody gets the Celestial Kindgom. Nobody gets lost no matter what. Because they can just keep being reincarnated until they've gotten the Celestial executive bathroom key. Its actually an issue with religion and afterlife beliefs overall. And especially an issue in the modern day when everybody demands that everybody get a 1st place trophy. Why is everybody so horridly afraid of the afterlife that they have to come up with all kinds of panicky ideas to soften the blow of death??

Well life is harsh, and it sucks sometimes. Not everybody is worthy for 1st place. Not everybody is worthy for 2nd or 3rd. Not everybody is going to make it. Not everybody will be there. God has already lost 30 someodd billion of his kids. You want to become God-like? Get used to loss. Get used to everybody not making it. Get used to everybody not becoming good enough to make the cut. Get used to it happening to your closest loved ones. That's just what might happen........

If we carry out this reincarnation fantasy to the very long eternal span, eventually, everybody will make it. Which makes an existence of Hell pointless. (In addition to any lesser degrees of glory.) We'll finally get to the point where there is no hell. There's a scripture for that, 2 Nephi 28:30 "And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance."
Dare I say that alaris even goes so far as to flatterth himself? I think I'll ponderize for a while who that would make him like.

There's also the scriptures talking specifically how once dead no labor can be performed any longer (Alma 34:14, John 9:4), and even no increase inside the Celestial Kingdom (D&C 131:4). No, reincarnation, nor whatever your pet version of it is, is not scriptural. Until God redacts his scriptures, I'll be very confident in siding with them, over any other source.

Right, right. alaris is going to cry and try and play the appeal to pity fallacy card. Everyone's so mean to him, he must be right! Continually, alaris is self-deluded that, because he gets mocked, ridiculed, scorned, laughed at, that somehow makes him right, or, at the very least, adds support to his ideas. A Galileo Gambit isn't going to garner you a win. I'll let Carl Sagan join into the denouncing, "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers [they laughed at the prophets]. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

Wow you're right! It wasn't until you worded it just so that I realized the error of my ways. Pointing out the obvious chains by which you all are bound was actually me crying! And it's been actually me saying, "We have enough" not realizing there's a new truth - a second large and spacious building where it's appropriate to point and mock at people who you judge have veered away from the iron rod. This will effectively... Wait what does this second large and spacious do? Forgive me as I'm just now coming to my senses thanks to your excellent example here watchthewatchers.... Now the name makes sense! Lol

[Alaris]

You can keep quoting the same scriptures if youd like. There's no debate over the state of the resurrection or the fact there is a final resurrection or even that the resurrection is needed for a fulness of joy. There's just a lot more to it than that, especially for those on the path to exaltation. Grace to grace.. Exaltation to exaltation... Until... Until..... Until you attain to the resurrection of the dead and sit enthroned in glory and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings the same as all God's before you. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

You now preach more than one resurrection - abomination of a doctrine, wild imagination, Christ is the stumbling block for the house of Israel - you have now stumbled and failed...

Every person on earth receives a final resurrection prior to the final judgement, prior to the world being celstrilaised at the end of the millennium. There is no second resurrection. Grace to grace progression does not require mortal life in order to progress - in fact only Christ progressed grace to grace as he did so without sinning. Born on earth without perfection but progressed towards perfection without sinning that is Grace to grace. We progress the same way but sin along the way and have to repent of the sins in order to continue. The scriptures are clear if we leave this mortal life in a repentant state we are saved and gain eternal life.

There is nothing more to it, also you are sorely mistaken there is no progression from exaltation to exaltation, it is false doctrine and make a mockery of Heaven. There is only one exaltation..
Back to primary - one has to learn the basics prior to progression on to mysteries of the kingdom, you cant bypass the basices.

Exaltation https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-princ ... n?lang=eng
What is exaltation?

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.
If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children (see D&C 14:7).

As to a burning pillar of fire, that happens a the second coming when all the righteous will return with Christ and be clothed/resurrected as him.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:12
12 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father, that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments, and none else.
13 For a trump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the earth shall quake, and they shall come forth—yea, even the dead which died in me, to receive a crown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, even as I am, to be with me, that we may be one.

Again false doctrine we become one with Christ and live as he lives and enter his bosom all the righteous at the second coming - no we don't have to undergo any other resurrection or mortal probation to be crowned and and one with the master to live in his Glory - it all happens at the second coming... To preach otherwise is very deceitful and a lie and inspired of Satan,

It's interesting how you quote scriptures that underscore MMP seemingly without realizing it.

Let's say you are right and we are standing by the Bar of Jehovah. I will be happy to give you a fair nod to you and all the other friends I've made in this thread.

There is no deceit nor lie from me. Any unbiased reader can see that. However there have been many attempts to twist and misstate, misrepresent etc. my words which really was amusing to me for a time as you can see in my comments. After reading Alma 12, I am genuinely sorry for you all. You've said "we have enough" until the adversary has gotten you all bound by chains. Pray for the blood of Christ to save you from your awful situation and immediately his saving grace will begin to take effect. The scripture is clear. Youre either receiving until the perfect day or you're devolving until you are encircled by the chains of hell.

These clear, obvious attempts to incite me to anger along with the clearly contentious language reveals the chains which bind you.

There is no way to be one with Christ without walking His walk some day. This is what D&C 29 and John 17 are about. Taking the high priests of Melchizedek and elevating them to Godhood. From there they must pass a probation as Holy Ghost before they can perform a same or similar course as the Son... Exactly as Joseph Smith taught. There is still nothing you've shared that is easily synthesized with the truth of mmp. You know this so I can only imagine you're hoping to wear me down, incite me to anger, or just hope you've gotten that precious last word.

Youre a smart man and a good man I believe. I hope these chains are acknowledged and cast aside, and I will pray for you and your family.

Flattering words. Reminds me of the apostates in the Book of Mormon. The scriptures used by Spaced Out do not prove MMP although you prefer to mistakenly interpret them that way. The apostles and prophets oppose what you're preaching which makes you an apostate as well. Go see your bishop.

I thought this was spaced_outs reply and thought, "Uh oh this is the wrong direction buddy" then saw who posted it. Lol

Go read your posts to your bishop. See if you get the same high gives as you get here.

[simpleton]

Maybe something along these lines are going on here with MMP, not the killing part by no means but looking beyond the mark...

"But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble...

[watchthewatchers]

Wow. There are some people around this place that think they are the ones. No one is king of that hill about it like alaris. He isn't being deceived by the philosophies of men mingled with scripture - he's being deceived by the only voice he can hear - the voice of alaris - mingled with scripture. I'm somewhat excited for the day when he starts peddling his own books, possibly going on a delete rampage with all his posts here, maybe even starting his own sect. It would seem that along his journey, he had the off button permanently disabled from his God complex.

That aside, this reincarnation thing is much more simpler than everyone's beaten it to death about. (And we really should quite trying to put lipstick on a pig and pretend we're not talking about reincarnation. Trying to make it Ok by giving it a politically correct name of multiple mortal probations is nothing other than calling good evil and evil good). The underlying concept to it all is trying to come up with a way so that everybody gets the Celestial Kindgom. Nobody gets lost no matter what. Because they can just keep being reincarnated until they've gotten the Celestial executive bathroom key. Its actually an issue with religion and afterlife beliefs overall. And especially an issue in the modern day when everybody demands that everybody get a 1st place trophy. Why is everybody so horridly afraid of the afterlife that they have to come up with all kinds of panicky ideas to soften the blow of death??

Well life is harsh, and it sucks sometimes. Not everybody is worthy for 1st place. Not everybody is worthy for 2nd or 3rd. Not everybody is going to make it. Not everybody will be there. God has already lost 30 someodd billion of his kids. You want to become God-like? Get used to loss. Get used to everybody not making it. Get used to everybody not becoming good enough to make the cut. Get used to it happening to your closest loved ones. That's just what might happen........

If we carry out this reincarnation fantasy to the very long eternal span, eventually, everybody will make it. Which makes an existence of Hell pointless. (In addition to any lesser degrees of glory.) We'll finally get to the point where there is no hell. There's a scripture for that, 2 Nephi 28:30 "And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance."
Dare I say that alaris even goes so far as to flatterth himself? I think I'll ponderize for a while who that would make him like.

There's also the scriptures talking specifically how once dead no labor can be performed any longer (Alma 34:14, John 9:4), and even no increase inside the Celestial Kingdom (D&C 131:4). No, reincarnation, nor whatever your pet version of it is, is not scriptural. Until God redacts his scriptures, I'll be very confident in siding with them, over any other source.

Right, right. alaris is going to cry and try and play the appeal to pity fallacy card. Everyone's so mean to him, he must be right! Continually, alaris is self-deluded that, because he gets mocked, ridiculed, scorned, laughed at, that somehow makes him right, or, at the very least, adds support to his ideas. A Galileo Gambit isn't going to garner you a win. I'll let Carl Sagan join into the denouncing, "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers [they laughed at the prophets]. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

Wow you're right! It wasn't until you worded it just so that I realized the error of my ways. Pointing out the obvious chains by which you all are bound was actually me crying! And it's been actually me saying, "We have enough" not realizing there's a new truth - a second large and spacious building where it's appropriate to point and mock at people who you judge have veered away from the iron rod. This will effectively... Wait what does this second large and spacious do? Forgive me as I'm just now coming to my senses thanks to your excellent example here watchthewatchers.... Now the name makes sense! Lol

Maybe you still can perceive some of the promptings of the Spirit. At least the ones that cause you to recognize when the Lord has sent one of his servants to make you aware of how much you've perverted his Gospel.
You're welcome!

[Silver]

You now preach more than one resurrection - abomination of a doctrine, wild imagination, Christ is the stumbling block for the house of Israel - you have now stumbled and failed...

Every person on earth receives a final resurrection prior to the final judgement, prior to the world being celstrilaised at the end of the millennium. There is no second resurrection. Grace to grace progression does not require mortal life in order to progress - in fact only Christ progressed grace to grace as he did so without sinning. Born on earth without perfection but progressed towards perfection without sinning that is Grace to grace. We progress the same way but sin along the way and have to repent of the sins in order to continue. The scriptures are clear if we leave this mortal life in a repentant state we are saved and gain eternal life.

There is nothing more to it, also you are sorely mistaken there is no progression from exaltation to exaltation, it is false doctrine and make a mockery of Heaven. There is only one exaltation..
Back to primary - one has to learn the basics prior to progression on to mysteries of the kingdom, you cant bypass the basices.



As to a burning pillar of fire, that happens a the second coming when all the righteous will return with Christ and be clothed/resurrected as him.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:12
12 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father, that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments, and none else.
13 For a trump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the earth shall quake, and they shall come forth—yea, even the dead which died in me, to receive a crown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, even as I am, to be with me, that we may be one.

Again false doctrine we become one with Christ and live as he lives and enter his bosom all the righteous at the second coming - no we don't have to undergo any other resurrection or mortal probation to be crowned and and one with the master to live in his Glory - it all happens at the second coming... To preach otherwise is very deceitful and a lie and inspired of Satan,

It's interesting how you quote scriptures that underscore MMP seemingly without realizing it.

Let's say you are right and we are standing by the Bar of Jehovah. I will be happy to give you a fair nod to you and all the other friends I've made in this thread.

There is no deceit nor lie from me. Any unbiased reader can see that. However there have been many attempts to twist and misstate, misrepresent etc. my words which really was amusing to me for a time as you can see in my comments. After reading Alma 12, I am genuinely sorry for you all. You've said "we have enough" until the adversary has gotten you all bound by chains. Pray for the blood of Christ to save you from your awful situation and immediately his saving grace will begin to take effect. The scripture is clear. Youre either receiving until the perfect day or you're devolving until you are encircled by the chains of hell.

These clear, obvious attempts to incite me to anger along with the clearly contentious language reveals the chains which bind you.

There is no way to be one with Christ without walking His walk some day. This is what D&C 29 and John 17 are about. Taking the high priests of Melchizedek and elevating them to Godhood. From there they must pass a probation as Holy Ghost before they can perform a same or similar course as the Son... Exactly as Joseph Smith taught. There is still nothing you've shared that is easily synthesized with the truth of mmp. You know this so I can only imagine you're hoping to wear me down, incite me to anger, or just hope you've gotten that precious last word.

Youre a smart man and a good man I believe. I hope these chains are acknowledged and cast aside, and I will pray for you and your family.

Flattering words. Reminds me of the apostates in the Book of Mormon. The scriptures used by Spaced Out do not prove MMP although you prefer to mistakenly interpret them that way. The apostles and prophets oppose what you're preaching which makes you an apostate as well. Go see your bishop.

I thought this was spaced_outs reply and thought, "Uh oh this is the wrong direction buddy" then saw who posted it. Lol

Go read your posts to your bishop. See if you get the same high gives as you get here.

Oh, you're a slick one, alarisherem. Nobody could take that away from you.

[Alaris]

It's interesting how you quote scriptures that underscore MMP seemingly without realizing it.

Let's say you are right and we are standing by the Bar of Jehovah. I will be happy to give you a fair nod to you and all the other friends I've made in this thread.

There is no deceit nor lie from me. Any unbiased reader can see that. However there have been many attempts to twist and misstate, misrepresent etc. my words which really was amusing to me for a time as you can see in my comments. After reading Alma 12, I am genuinely sorry for you all. You've said "we have enough" until the adversary has gotten you all bound by chains. Pray for the blood of Christ to save you from your awful situation and immediately his saving grace will begin to take effect. The scripture is clear. Youre either receiving until the perfect day or you're devolving until you are encircled by the chains of hell.

These clear, obvious attempts to incite me to anger along with the clearly contentious language reveals the chains which bind you.

There is no way to be one with Christ without walking His walk some day. This is what D&C 29 and John 17 are about. Taking the high priests of Melchizedek and elevating them to Godhood. From there they must pass a probation as Holy Ghost before they can perform a same or similar course as the Son... Exactly as Joseph Smith taught. There is still nothing you've shared that is easily synthesized with the truth of mmp. You know this so I can only imagine you're hoping to wear me down, incite me to anger, or just hope you've gotten that precious last word.

Youre a smart man and a good man I believe. I hope these chains are acknowledged and cast aside, and I will pray for you and your family.

Flattering words. Reminds me of the apostates in the Book of Mormon. The scriptures used by Spaced Out do not prove MMP although you prefer to mistakenly interpret them that way. The apostles and prophets oppose what you're preaching which makes you an apostate as well. Go see your bishop.

I thought this was spaced_outs reply and thought, "Uh oh this is the wrong direction buddy" then saw who posted it. Lol

Go read your posts to your bishop. See if you get the same high gives as you get here.

Oh, you're a slick one, alarisherem. Nobody could take that away from you.

Thats the nicest thing *sniff* anyone has said to me all day!

[Alaris]

Maybe something along these lines are going on here with MMP, not the killing part by no means but looking beyond the mark...

"But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble...

This is exactly what is going on. Stepping all over the second commandment to protect people from being swayed into believing a perceived false doctrine as though they have authority to say what the unrevealed portion isn't is exactly what the Jews did. Nice

[tdj]

When I think of the theory of people coming back to Earth, or reincarnating, I can't help but think of the carnivals I used to go to as a kid. I'd hang out with my friends there and we'd dare each other to keep going back on the crazy, wild ride, and so we just kept coming back to it, and the first one to puke, lost.

[Spaced_Out]

There is no way to be one with Christ without walking His walk some day. This is what D&C 29 and John 17 are about. Taking the high priests of Melchizedek and elevating them to Godhood. From there they must pass a probation as Holy Ghost before they can perform a same or similar course as the Son... Exactly as Joseph Smith taught. There is still nothing you've shared that is easily synthesized with the truth of mmp. You know this so I can only imagine you're hoping to wear me down, incite me to anger, or just hope you've gotten that precious last word.

Youre a smart man and a good man I believe. I hope these chains are acknowledged and cast aside, and I will pray for you and your family.

Th oath and covenant of the PH is all we need to become one with Christ and inherit all the father hath.

33 For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.
34 They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.
35 And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;
36 For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;
37 And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;
38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.
39 And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

Receive the higher PH and magnify your callings and then we receive all the father hath - there is no new name to receive there is no greater works to be done. We do not need to become equal to the Father and Son to be one with them.

Doctrine and Covenants 82:10-11
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

God has mad many promises that if we are faithful in this life we will be saved the same with children who die before accountability - according to you none are saved till we live a sinless life and be a saviour for a world. What world are you going to save as you have no spirit offspring and all of the Fathers children re saved by Christ.
You deny Christ and his atonement and ability to save - that his atonement is not good enough and we have to suffer and live a sinless life like him.

I received direct revelation from Christ about forgiveness of sin shortly after I was baptised, and I highly recommend not telling the Master of the Universe that his sacrifice was not good enough to save us - but we have to go through what he went through.. (You take all his glory from Him) I can tell you one thing for sure the hot displeasure of Christ will evaporate your body and melt the rocks upon which you stand.... I have felt some tiny portion of that hot displeasure - it is something to be avoided at all cost.

[Spaced_Out]

Maybe something along these lines are going on here with MMP, not the killing part by no means but looking beyond the mark...

"But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall; for God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it God hath done it, that they may stumble...

This is exactly what is going on. Stepping all over the second commandment to protect people from being swayed into believing a perceived false doctrine as though they have authority to say what the unrevealed portion isn't is exactly what the Jews did. Nice

Noting in the sealed portion says anything about MMP - what insight do you have, MMP is contrary to Christ and his teaching...
Why look for hidden mysteries - if you cant even understand the basics of the atonement.

[simpleton]

31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.

32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life (not mmp's, but this one day of mortality) is the day for men to perform their labors.

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity,( again this life not mmp) behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. (So after this "one" life or mortality no labor can be performed, and/or rather it pretty much spells out very clear that if we fail at performing the labor necessary for our salvation then there is no other "mmp" where it can be performed again.... But that is where work for the dead comes in, and actually that is another thing, what is even the point of temples and doing all these ordinances for our ancesters if we have endless mmp to do it in?)

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. ( So here again it spells out quite clear that even desiring to have another "mmp" or another chance to redo the work necessary will not happen, that is where temple work comes in)

35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; ( here again quite clearly he states that you are sealed to serve the devil, and to be sealed pretty much is opposite of "mmp")therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked. ( there again " the final state" , no " mmp")

36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; (" to go no more out" no " mmp")but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb.

Just one little random quote of many that speaks about " now" being the time and not " multiple" times. But let's let say for arguments sake that "mmp" is a true doctrine. Never in all the scriptures has it been preached as requisite knowledge for advancing in "this" probation. Infact " if" it is true ( which I do not think it is) it is actually very detrimental (IMO) to our salvation as it very much relaxes the desire to even do what is right, as, because we are carnal sensual and devilish so we get the idea that we can:

"Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us.

8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last ( after "mmp") we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.

[Alaris]

31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.

32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life (not mmp's, but this one day of mortality) is the day for men to perform their labors.

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity,( again this life not mmp) behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. (So after this "one" life or mortality no labor can be performed, and/or rather it pretty much spells out very clear that if we fail at performing the labor necessary for our salvation then there is no other "mmp" where it can be performed again.... But that is where work for the dead comes in, and actually that is another thing, what is even the point of temples and doing all these ordinances for our ancesters if we have endless mmp to do it in?)

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. ( So here again it spells out quite clear that even desiring to have another "mmp" or another chance to redo the work necessary will not happen, that is where temple work comes in)

35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; ( here again quite clearly he states that you are sealed to serve the devil, and to be sealed pretty much is opposite of "mmp")therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked. ( there again " the final state" , no " mmp")

36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; (" to go no more out" no " mmp")but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb.

Just one little random quote of many that speaks about " now" being the time and not " multiple" times. But let's let say for arguments sake that "mmp" is a true doctrine. Never in all the scriptures has it been preached as requisite knowledge for advancing in "this" probation. Infact " if" it is true ( which I do not think it is) it is actually very detrimental (IMO) to our salvation as it very much relaxes the desire to even do what is right, as, because we are carnal sensual and devilish so we get the idea that we can:

"Yea, and there shall be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die; and it shall be well with us.

8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last ( after "mmp") we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.

9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.

Have you read my article or my posts in this thread? This is super elementary stuff I've addressed many times already. None of you have even begun to provide alternative explanations to King Follet, grace to grace, exaltation to exaltation, etc. So repeating the same scriptures over and over that I've addressed.....

[Alaris]

Alaris: Lucifer carried the fruit to Eve. Did he have a body or was this symbolic? Or was this an error? He has on robes and an apron in the latest video - was this a mistake or a deliberate to show Lucifer's own progression? I believe these touches were absolutely deliberate. I know it. Even the text or wording of the endowment indicates he is carrying the fruit of the tree.

Lizzy60: So where and when did Peter, James and John get those physical bodies that shook hands with Adam? How can they be True Messengers sent from Father if they are still first-estate beings who have never proven themselves faithful during a second-state probation?

If you do a little more research in the scriptures, you will also discover that Lucifer, a Son of the Morning, was not a "first-estate" being. He had progressed very far in order to fall to the greatest depths. We teach this in the LDS Church when we teach that in order to become a Son of Perdition one must first have received Priesthood and the Second Comforter. The same principle applies to the Father of Lies, Lucifer.

If we have all the light and knowledge available, what is going to be in the sealed portion of the plates, as well as the other scriptures that have held back until a future date?

The temple is symbolic, there is much to learn there and much that you may be missing. It's not meant to be taken a 'god breathed'. I seriously doubt Peter, James and John walked about and shook hands. We also don't know exactly HOW Lucifer beguiled Eve, he didn't have to carry the fruit. Also, the serpent may have been involved. As members of the church, knowing the doctrines of the church, we are to understand they are in spirit form...even though they are portrayed by physical actors. Jesus showed himself to Nephi before he was born, he was a spirit.

Spirit is a form of matter, as well. I person may feel the 'touch' of a spirit.

Both of you are being too literal and not recognizing that you need to learn not by sight alone, but through other senses when communing in the Temple.

I'm pretty sure they are relating D&C 129 to the shaking of hands. And if they didn't shake hands, how did they know who it really was? Without going into it too much online.

btw, I had this question in the past and heard of a possible solution which made me think, eh, there's probably an explanation to it so haven't worried too much about it.

Funny to see the selective literal interpretation. It says never but that's not a real handshake.

[Spaced_Out]

It's interesting how you quote scriptures that underscore MMP seemingly without realizing it.

Let's say you are right and we are standing by the Bar of Jehovah. I will be happy to give you a fair nod to you and all the other friends I've made in this thread.

There is no deceit nor lie from me. Any unbiased reader can see that. However there have been many attempts to twist and misstate, misrepresent etc. my words which really was amusing to me for a time as you can see in my comments. After reading Alma 12, I am genuinely sorry for you all. You've said "we have enough" until the adversary has gotten you all bound by chains. Pray for the blood of Christ to save you from your awful situation and immediately his saving grace will begin to take effect. The scripture is clear. Youre either receiving until the perfect day or you're devolving until you are encircled by the chains of hell.

These clear, obvious attempts to incite me to anger along with the clearly contentious language reveals the chains which bind you.

There is no way to be one with Christ without walking His walk some day. This is what D&C 29 and John 17 are about. Taking the high priests of Melchizedek and elevating them to Godhood. From there they must pass a probation as Holy Ghost before they can perform a same or similar course as the Son... Exactly as Joseph Smith taught. There is still nothing you've shared that is easily synthesized with the truth of mmp. You know this so I can only imagine you're hoping to wear me down, incite me to anger, or just hope you've gotten that precious last word.

Youre a smart man and a good man I believe. I hope these chains are acknowledged and cast aside, and I will pray for you and your family.

In case you did nor read it properly the trump signals from Mt Sinai - where all the righteous dead are crowned and become one with Christ and get a resurrected body clothed as Christ is clothed. It is not on any future state or earth - blatant denial of the truth.

The resurrection breaks the bands of death, death has no sting - that is it the final state of man - there is no second resurrection - God's purpose is mortality and eternal life of man - you will be sorely judged for preaching false doctrine and deceiving people.

There is no doctrine of passing a probation - the HG has no probation. The Father only needs one saviour for all his creations. Show me one scripture that we need to descend below all things and live a sinless life in order to be saved. We sin and progress through the atonement of Christ. Like Adam, Abraham, Issac, and Jacob are now all gods and are exalted and have obtained eternal life never to be separated from God as they are in the bosom of eternity - none of them lived a sinless life and descended below all things. You have no answer and no scripture just heretical lies and deception and wild speculation that has no scriptural bases or teaching by any of the prophets or handbooks of the church or in any of the ordinances of the temple..

You make wild speculations like the duel mirrors in the sealing room equate to you having to be sealed multiple times to your wife in many moralities, but you have not figured out the mirrors give endless reflections -- meaning you will have endless cycles never to be exalted. What does the church teach in the temple about eternal marriage in the endowment and in the sealing room... Your symbolism interpretation is perverted and depraved. We do not need to receive the ordinances thousand of times in order to be save. The promise that comes with the ordinances are sure else Christ is a lair, and the work for the dead is bogus.
13 For a trump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the earth shall quake, and they shall come forth—yea, even the dead which died in me, to receive a crown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, even as I am, to be with me, that we may be one.

[Spaced_Out]

What is the point of the millennium of living 1000y with Christ on earth just to do multiple mortal probation and each time inherit another earth and have to spend 1000y on that earth millennial rein.

We are told that during the millennium children will grow up to salvation without sin - you have never explained that either how can they be saved if they have to be saved many thousand of times over again.

If we have thousand so of mortal probation how many Christ have to keep paying the price for our sins - the scriptures teach we are His and belong to Him, 'do we in the next life the shed Jesus the son of David as our redeemer and get an new redeemer and then belong to a different God or and a different redeemer.

Again the scriptures are a lie as we are not Christ's and are not his as in future probation's we will have many Christs and belong to many - till we become a Christ ourselves and then belong to ourselves as we have saved ourselves by living a sinless life having descended below all things.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:3,10-12,16,22,39,45,55-58,61,71,83,96-97
3 Yet I will own them, and they shall be amine in that day when I shall come to make up my jewels.

MMP doctrine is pure blasphemy - it makes every scripture a lie -saying we are not Christ and do not belong to HIm and cant be one with Him as we will end up having thousands of Saviours and belong to all of them.

You also have not answered the issue of the Sisters - do they also need to descend below all things live a sinless life and be crucified as Christ was crucified. Your teachings on MMP has more holes in it than a fishing net...

[HappyCamper8]

Alaris: Lucifer carried the fruit to Eve. Did he have a body or was this symbolic? Or was this an error? He has on robes and an apron in the latest video - was this a mistake or a deliberate to show Lucifer's own progression? I believe these touches were absolutely deliberate. I know it. Even the text or wording of the endowment indicates he is carrying the fruit of the tree.

Lizzy60: So where and when did Peter, James and John get those physical bodies that shook hands with Adam? How can they be True Messengers sent from Father if they are still first-estate beings who have never proven themselves faithful during a second-state probation?

If you do a little more research in the scriptures, you will also discover that Lucifer, a Son of the Morning, was not a "first-estate" being. He had progressed very far in order to fall to the greatest depths. We teach this in the LDS Church when we teach that in order to become a Son of Perdition one must first have received Priesthood and the Second Comforter. The same principle applies to the Father of Lies, Lucifer.

If we have all the light and knowledge available, what is going to be in the sealed portion of the plates, as well as the other scriptures that have held back until a future date?

The temple is symbolic, there is much to learn there and much that you may be missing. It's not meant to be taken a 'god breathed'. I seriously doubt Peter, James and John walked about and shook hands. We also don't know exactly HOW Lucifer beguiled Eve, he didn't have to carry the fruit. Also, the serpent may have been involved. As members of the church, knowing the doctrines of the church, we are to understand they are in spirit form...even though they are portrayed by physical actors. Jesus showed himself to Nephi before he was born, he was a spirit.

Spirit is a form of matter, as well. I person may feel the 'touch' of a spirit.

Both of you are being too literal and not recognizing that you need to learn not by sight alone, but through other senses when communing in the Temple.

I'm pretty sure they are relating D&C 129 to the shaking of hands. And if they didn't shake hands, how did they know who it really was? Without going into it too much online.

btw, I had this question in the past and heard of a possible solution which made me think, eh, there's probably an explanation to it so haven't worried too much about it.

Funny to see the selective literal interpretation. It says never but that's not a real handshake.

Alaris, I'm not sure what you mean here. What do you mean by "It says never but that's not a real handshake." Thanks.

[janderich]

If we have thousand so of mortal probation how many Christ have to keep paying the price for our sins - the scriptures teach we are His and belong to Him, 'do we in the next life the shed Jesus the son of David as our redeemer and get an new redeemer and then belong to a different God or and a different redeemer.

"Every world has had an Adam and an Eve, named so simply because the first man is always called Adam and the first woman, Eve. And the oldest son has always had the privilege of being ordained, appointed and called to be the heir of the family if he does not rebel against the Father, and he is the Savior of the family. Every world that has been created has been created upon the same principle. They may vary in their varieties, yet the eternity is one: it is one eternal round." (Brigham Young, "For This Is Life Eternal," in Brigham Young Addresses, 2:230)

Again the scriptures are a lie as we are not Christ's and are not his as in future probation's we will have many Christs and belong to many - till we become a Christ ourselves and then belong to ourselves as we have saved ourselves by living a sinless life having descended below all things.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:3,10-12,16,22,39,45,55-58,61,71,83,96-97
3 Yet I will own them, and they shall be amine in that day when I shall come to make up my jewels.

We are Christ's and we will be Christ's there is no debate on that point. But when will you see that Christ is a title?

[janderich]

There is no doctrine of passing a probation - the HG has no probation.

“The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.” (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.) Those that have ears to hear let them hear.

[janderich]

Th oath and covenant of the PH is all we need to become one with Christ and inherit all the father hath. Receive the higher PH and magnify your callings and then we receive all the father hath - there is no new name to receive there is no greater works to be done.

Indeed it is true that the oath and covenant is all that we need for salvation. But it appears you do not understand what that means. Can you not see that only in the temple we receive the oaths and covenants of the priesthood? There are no covenants or oaths received when one has hands placed on their head for ordination to the Melchizedek priesthood.

We do not need to become equal to the Father and Son to be one with them.

"We ask, then, where is the prototype? or where is the saved being? We conclude, as to the answer of this question, there will be no dispute among those who believe the bible, that it is Christ; all will agree in this, that he is the prototype or standard of salvation, or, in other words, that he is a saved being. And if we should continue our interrogation, and ask how it is that he is saved? the answer would be - because he is a just and holy being; and if he were anything different from what he is he would not be saved; for his salvation depends on his being precisely what he is and nothing else... .for salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in nothing else; and no being can possess it but himself or one like him." (Lectures on Faith, Lecture Seventh p 76-77)

Do you believe you can obtain the same level of salvation Christ has without being like him? Do you believe you can stand in the presence of the Elohim without having obtained what they have obtained? I say you cannot.

[janderich]

Grace to grace progression does not require mortal life in order to progress - in fact only Christ progressed grace to grace as he did so without sinning.

False on both accounts. First we must progress grace for grace as Christ did, “For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace” (D&C 93:20). Second, it is absolutely necessary that we enter mortality in order to learn and grow, "When we lived as spirit children with our heavenly parents, our Heavenly Father told us about His plan for us to become more like Him. We shouted for joy when we heard His plan (see Job 38:7). We were eager for new experiences. In order for these things to happen, we needed to leave our Father’s presence and receive mortal bodies." (Gospel Principles Ch 5 The Creation).