Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

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marc
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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by marc »

Yeah, there are other examples, one of which is:
On November 1, 1831, the Prophet Joseph Smith convened a special conference of 10 elders in Hiram, Ohio, to discuss the collection and publication of the revelations that he had thus far received. The proposed publication would give Church members access to the Lord’s revelations and would stand as a testimony to all the world that God once again had begun to reveal His mind and will to His children on earth.

During the conference the attendees decided to print 10,000 copies of the compiled revelations (this number was later reduced to 3,000 copies) in a single volume that would be titled the Book of Commandments. A committee of elders was asked to write a preface for the publication. When the committee presented its draft of the preface, the assembled group rejected the attempt and asked the Prophet to petition the Lord for direction. “After [Joseph Smith] and the elders bowed in prayer, [Joseph], who was ‘sitting by a window,’ dictated the preface ‘by the Spirit,’ while [Sidney] Rigdon served as scribe. ‘Joseph would deliver a few sentences and Sidney would write them down,’ [recalled William E. McLellin], ‘then read them aloud, and if correct, then Joseph would proceed and deliver more’” (in The Joseph Smith Papers, Documents, Volume 2, July 1831–January 1833, 104). This revelation was published as the preface to the 1833 Book of Commandments and is now section 1 of our present-day Doctrine and Covenants.
In the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, we read that Joseph Smith taught the Relief Society that the church was threatened because the people were blindly following the prophet rather than being independent in their thinking:
“President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel–said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church–that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls–applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall–that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds…”
TPJS p.237
Anyway, this is all old news. What's the point of the church being true if we cannot all be one heart and one mind peaceable followers of Christ rather than continually engaging in jarrings and contentions? That is not what it takes to be redeemed (become Zion). So for all those who keep tabs on this remnant or that remnant group to judge them, point out their errors, or for whatever reason, just keep in mind that Jesus Christ loves them as much as He loves you and me and desires to redeem them just as much as you and me. And whoever can manage to become one heart and one mind may be those who the Lord gathers first. After all, it is the lofty branches of the olive tree, which are barren and fruitless that the Lord cuts down and bundles up for the fire while those few branches that produce equal fruit are gathered by the few servants wherever they may be. Maybe this "Light the world" effort now underway may jump start such an effort. Time will tell.
Jacob 5:74 And thus they labored, with all diligence, according to the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard, even until the bad had been cast away out of the vineyard, and the Lord had preserved unto himself that the trees had become again the natural fruit; and they became like unto one body; and the fruits were equal; and the Lord of the vineyard had preserved unto himself the natural fruit, which was most precious unto him from the beginning.

75 And it came to pass that when the Lord of the vineyard saw that his fruit was good, and that his vineyard was no more corrupt, he called up his servants, and said unto them: Behold, for this last time have we nourished my vineyard; and thou beholdest that I have done according to my will; and I have preserved the natural fruit, that it is good, even like as it was in the beginning. And blessed art thou; for because ye have been diligent in laboring with me in my vineyard, and have kept my commandments, and have brought unto me again the natural fruit, that my vineyard is no more corrupted, and the bad is cast away, behold ye shall have joy with me because of the fruit of my vineyard.

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AI2.0
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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by AI2.0 »

My responsed in blue:
marc wrote: December 11th, 2017, 3:40 pm Yeah, there are other examples, one of which is:
On November 1, 1831, the Prophet Joseph Smith convened a special conference of 10 elders in Hiram, Ohio, to discuss the collection and publication of the revelations that he had thus far received. The proposed publication would give Church members access to the Lord’s revelations and would stand as a testimony to all the world that God once again had begun to reveal His mind and will to His children on earth.

During the conference the attendees decided to print 10,000 copies of the compiled revelations (this number was later reduced to 3,000 copies) in a single volume that would be titled the Book of Commandments. A committee of elders was asked to write a preface for the publication. When the committee presented its draft of the preface, the assembled group rejected the attempt and asked the Prophet to petition the Lord for direction. “After [Joseph Smith] and the elders bowed in prayer, [Joseph], who was ‘sitting by a window,’ dictated the preface ‘by the Spirit,’ while [Sidney] Rigdon served as scribe. ‘Joseph would deliver a few sentences and Sidney would write them down,’ [recalled William E. McLellin], ‘then read them aloud, and if correct, then Joseph would proceed and deliver more’” (in The Joseph Smith Papers, Documents, Volume 2, July 1831–January 1833, 104). This revelation was published as the preface to the 1833 Book of Commandments and is now section 1 of our present-day Doctrine and Covenants.
How does this contradict what I said? It supports what I said. The committee was asked to write a preface--not the revelations. And what they came up with was rejected. Joseph had to write it. This supports the idea that if Denver Snuffer IS the head of this movement and God approves, then HE is the one who should be receiving revelation for the group and directing the group to do some things, but it's completely out of character for God to forbid his chosen prophet/servant from receiving meaningful revelation (such as this document they are working on) for the group.
In the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, we read that Joseph Smith taught the Relief Society that the church was threatened because the people were blindly following the prophet rather than being independent in their thinking:No one disagrees with this. People do need to receive revelation, but they are NOT the stewards who receive revelation for the whole church. This is a basic tenet of the LDS faith and you'd think that any offshoots or 'corrections' would still keep this pattern, as it is very ingrained in our scriptures and teachings.
“President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel–said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church–that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls–applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall–that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds…”
TPJS p.237
Anyway, this is all old news. What's the point of the church being true if we cannot all be one heart and one mind peaceable followers of Christ rather than continually engaging in jarrings and contentions? That is not what it takes to be redeemed (become Zion). So for all those who keep tabs on this remnant or that remnant group to judge them, point out their errors, or for whatever reason, just keep in mind that Jesus Christ loves them as much as He loves you and me and desires to redeem them just as much as you and me. And whoever can manage to become one heart and one mind may be those who the Lord gathers first. After all, it is the lofty branches of the olive tree, which are barren and fruitless that the Lord cuts down and bundles up for the fire while those few branches that produce equal fruit are gathered by the few servants wherever they may be. Maybe this "Light the world" effort now underway may jump start such an effort. Time will tell.'Time will tell' and it's all ready telling. They are falling apart! Their movement is not growing, it's going to remain static with the small group of followers who will doggedly remain with him, even though it's clear he's not what they thought he was. Contention comes from dissension, as we've seen many many examples of in the Book of Mormon. Let's not forget who started the contention by dissenting. The Remnant and Denver Snuffer.
Jacob 5:74 And thus they labored, with all diligence, according to the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard, even until the bad had been cast away out of the vineyard, and the Lord had preserved unto himself that the trees had become again the natural fruit; and they became like unto one body; and the fruits were equal; and the Lord of the vineyard had preserved unto himself the natural fruit, which was most precious unto him from the beginning.

75 And it came to pass that when the Lord of the vineyard saw that his fruit was good, and that his vineyard was no more corrupt, he called up his servants, and said unto them: Behold, for this last time have we nourished my vineyard; and thou beholdest that I have done according to my will; and I have preserved the natural fruit, that it is good, even like as it was in the beginning. And blessed art thou; for because ye have been diligent in laboring with me in my vineyard, and have kept my commandments, and have brought unto me again the natural fruit, that my vineyard is no more corrupted, and the bad is cast away, behold ye shall have joy with me because of the fruit of my vineyard.

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marc
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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by marc »

The point was made with Joseph quoting Ezekiel thus the saints being darkened in their minds. So the remnants seem like they're falling apart, etc. Like I said, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I merely made an observation. If the remnants become darkened in their minds, then they, like the saints, will suffer the same blindness and unbelief and will suffer the same fate. To reiterate, none of us is any better off than any other, being on this dark side of the veil of unbelief. Unless you've parted the veil as the bro of Jared, you're just as fallen as I am and as any of the remnant folks.

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AI2.0
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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by AI2.0 »

marc wrote: December 12th, 2017, 3:00 pm The point was made with Joseph quoting Ezekiel thus the saints being darkened in their minds. So the remnants seem like they're falling apart, etc. Like I said, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I merely made an observation. If the remnants become darkened in their minds, then they, like the saints, will suffer the same blindness and unbelief and will suffer the same fate. Like I said, none of us is any better off than any other being on this dark side of the veil of unbelief. Unless you've parted the veil as the bro of Jared, you're just as fallen as I am and as any of the remnant folks.
Yes, we're all 'fallen'--we are in a fallen state and have been since Adam fell, no question. That's what the atonement is for.

However, I have to disagree; some of us ARE better off. If we have a testimony of the true gospel of Jesus Christ and are obedient in living the commandments we've been given, are doing our best to follow the Savior's example in loving and serving our fellowmen--those who do this ARE better off. Life is better, there is joy and peace and love in the lives of the humble followers of Christ...and they don't have to have seen Jesus in the flesh to have the Love of God in their lives.

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Arenera
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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by Arenera »

AI2.0 wrote: December 12th, 2017, 5:21 pm
marc wrote: December 12th, 2017, 3:00 pm The point was made with Joseph quoting Ezekiel thus the saints being darkened in their minds. So the remnants seem like they're falling apart, etc. Like I said, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I merely made an observation. If the remnants become darkened in their minds, then they, like the saints, will suffer the same blindness and unbelief and will suffer the same fate. Like I said, none of us is any better off than any other being on this dark side of the veil of unbelief. Unless you've parted the veil as the bro of Jared, you're just as fallen as I am and as any of the remnant folks.
Yes, we're all 'fallen'--we are in a fallen state and have been since Adam fell, no question. That's what the atonement is for.

However, I have to disagree; some of us ARE better off. If we have a testimony of the true gospel of Jesus Christ and are obedient in living the commandments we've been given, are doing our best to follow the Savior's example in loving and serving our fellowmen--those who do this ARE better off. Life is better, there is joy and peace and love in the lives of the humble followers of Christ...and they don't have to have seen Jesus in the flesh to have the Love of God in their lives.
Yes, the New and Everlasting Covenant that each of us make at baptism, Christ justifies us because He was perfect, the gift of the Holy Ghost sanctifies us. If we stay within that covenant we will be saved and go to the Celestial Kingdom.

silk
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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by silk »

marc wrote: December 11th, 2017, 3:40 pm Anyway, this is all old news. What's the point of the church being true if we cannot all be one heart and one mind peaceable followers of Christ rather than continually engaging in jarrings and contentions? That is not what it takes to be redeemed (become Zion). So for all those who keep tabs on this remnant or that remnant group to judge them, point out their errors, or for whatever reason, just keep in mind that Jesus Christ loves them as much as He loves you and me and desires to redeem them just as much as you and me.
I've thought a lot about what you posted here -- the idea that we might "keep tabs on this remnant or that remnant group to judge them, point out their errors, or for whatever reason". It's said as though there is no love involved. I hope that's not how it comes across, as I've always seen it as motivated by love, similar to when Alma sought to reclaim the Zoramites.

Alma 31:
2 For it was the cause of great sorrow to Alma to know of iniquity among his people; therefore his heart was exceedingly sorrowful because of the separation of the Zoramites from the Nephites.
Alma saw them leave with great sorrow because he loved them. It hurt him inside to see them walking away from the truths they'd learned, and the covenants they'd taken upon themselves.
5 And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God.
I think this is what many of us (from the LDS side, anyway) have been trying to do. We get into discussions because we're trying to understand their point of view, and then share our understanding of and experiences with the truth.

That being said, I'll agree that it doesn't seem to work. With the Remnant, I used to think it was a basic doctrinal divide -- we could just build on the commonalities that we shared, and then figure out the small disagreements that remained. I no longer see it that way. Denver Snuffer has set it up to be an unbridgeable gap, because it's an organizational divide. Either there's supposed to be an organized church, or there's not. Either that church is a godly tool to get us to Zion, or it's one of the causes preventing us from getting there. Restoration vs Reformation.

I want to make it plain where I stand. My feelings are similar to Joseph Smith's, as he recorded them in 1830. From Vol. 1, Page 79:
[A]nd after a happy time spent in witnessing and feeling for ourselves the powers and blessings of the Holy Ghost, through the grace of God bestowed upon us, we dismissed with the pleasing knowledge that we were now individually members of, and acknowledged of God, "The Church of Jesus Christ," organized in accordance with commandments and revelations given by Him to ourselves in these last days, as well as according to the order of the Church as recorded in the New Testament.

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marc
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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by marc »

silk wrote: December 14th, 2017, 8:50 amI've thought a lot about what you posted here -- the idea that we might "keep tabs on this remnant or that remnant group to judge them, point out their errors, or for whatever reason". It's said as though there is no love involved.
I find it interesting that you said, "we," thereby including yourself among those who for whatever reason may or may not comment to judge. I say may or may not because I really don't care to go back through all the "Snuffer" and "Remnant" threads to point out the posts lacking in compassion and brotherly kindness because that would involve exposing the hearts of those who made the posts. In any case, most all "Snufferites" and "Remnant" folks no longer participate here and it's not because of all the love and compassion shown them. Also, some were likewise not kind to the "mainstream" or "TBM" members here either. What is clear about this whole issue is that the Lord's covenant people for various reasons are not one. There is a reason that we are told in Pearl of Great Price that we must be one heart and one mind, etc. I believe the order of attributes is deliberate. If we cannot become one heart first, we can never become one mind. And that is what is required to become Zion.

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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by Rand »

Marc, you said; "In any case, most all "Snufferites" and "Remnant" folks no longer participate here and it's not because of all the love and compassion shown them." Actually, they are the reason I left this forum for several years. The amount of contention, the bad spirit, the utter frustration was not worth the effort.
There has probably been a lack of love, as you would call it, shown toward these people. But, at some point, when they are actively engaged in seeking to destroy peoples testimonies, dissembling peoples understanding, and drawing people away from what I know to be the truth, it may not be other than love to sternly call them out. I am not sure how much love was shown to the Pharisees, Sadducees, Nehor, etc. by the Savior, the Prophets who dealt with them?
We should act in love, but sometimes that can look differently than the world tries to make it look, as Christ interacted with those he called hypocrites.

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marc
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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by marc »

Well, I do know this: I have been a Pharisee most of my life. And I am still a hypocrite.

gardener4life
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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by gardener4life »

silk wrote: December 14th, 2017, 8:50 am
marc wrote: December 11th, 2017, 3:40 pm Anyway, this is all old news. What's the point of the church being true if we cannot all be one heart and one mind peaceable followers of Christ rather than continually engaging in jarrings and contentions? That is not what it takes to be redeemed (become Zion). So for all those who keep tabs on this remnant or that remnant group to judge them, point out their errors, or for whatever reason, just keep in mind that Jesus Christ loves them as much as He loves you and me and desires to redeem them just as much as you and me.
I've thought a lot about what you posted here -- the idea that we might "keep tabs on this remnant or that remnant group to judge them, point out their errors, or for whatever reason". It's said as though there is no love involved. I hope that's not how it comes across, as I've always seen it as motivated by love, similar to when Alma sought to reclaim the Zoramites.

Alma 31:
2 For it was the cause of great sorrow to Alma to know of iniquity among his people; therefore his heart was exceedingly sorrowful because of the separation of the Zoramites from the Nephites.
Alma saw them leave with great sorrow because he loved them. It hurt him inside to see them walking away from the truths they'd learned, and the covenants they'd taken upon themselves.
5 And now, as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just—yea, it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword, or anything else, which had happened unto them—therefore Alma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God.
I think this is what many of us (from the LDS side, anyway) have been trying to do. We get into discussions because we're trying to understand their point of view, and then share our understanding of and experiences with the truth.

That being said, I'll agree that it doesn't seem to work. With the Remnant, I used to think it was a basic doctrinal divide -- we could just build on the commonalities that we shared, and then figure out the small disagreements that remained. I no longer see it that way. Denver Snuffer has set it up to be an unbridgeable gap, because it's an organizational divide. Either there's supposed to be an organized church, or there's not. Either that church is a godly tool to get us to Zion, or it's one of the causes preventing us from getting there. Restoration vs Reformation.

I want to make it plain where I stand. My feelings are similar to Joseph Smith's, as he recorded them in 1830. From Vol. 1, Page 79:
[A]nd after a happy time spent in witnessing and feeling for ourselves the powers and blessings of the Holy Ghost, through the grace of God bestowed upon us, we dismissed with the pleasing knowledge that we were now individually members of, and acknowledged of God, "The Church of Jesus Christ," organized in accordance with commandments and revelations given by Him to ourselves in these last days, as well as according to the order of the Church as recorded in the New Testament.
For what its worth, most of what you said is wonderful. Good job. However there is one thing I would expound upon and exhort others to take a better look at. This part here I feel I should comment upon.

"What's the point of the church being true if we cannot all be one heart and one mind peaceable followers of Christ rather than continually engaging in jarrings and contentions? That is not what it takes to be redeemed (become Zion). So for all those who keep tabs on this remnant or that remnant group to judge them, point out their errors, or for whatever reason, just keep in mind that Jesus Christ loves them as much as He loves you and me and desires to redeem them just as much as you and me."

Here are some scriptures that I would show. And the reason for this is sincerely step by step that we aren't keeping tabs on anyone. Nor would we want to. That's a huge a waste of time and not something anyone wants to do. But we can't just let any filth or false ideas come into our homes.

4 Nephi 1:29 And they were taught to hate the children of God, even as the Lamanites were taught to hate the children of Nephi from the beginning.

Genesis 5:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (verse 3 quotes the loss of the spirit and the loss of the Light of Christ.)

****Alma 30:20 But behold they were more wise than many of the Nephites; for they took him, and bound him, and carried him before Ammon, who was a ahigh priest over that people.**** (The people of Jershon, who were the remnant in the land left over from the conversions of missionary work done by Ammon and his brothers upheld and kept the church together in the days before Christ's death and resurrection. They were the most faithful of Saints, and a model to people in our day even. Part of what helped keep them strong is that they didn't allow the teachings of Nehor, Korihor to go among them.)

Alma 30:12 And this Anti-Christ, whose name was Korihor, and the law could have no hold upon him) began to preach unto the people that there should be no Christ. (Try not to think about it so much in terms of him only being anti-Christ but also representing people trying to change the doctrine and pervert the teachings of God to what suited their PLEASURES, DESIRES, and SINS. This also introduces the dangers of teaching like Nehor, Korihor, and Sherem.

Laman & Lemuel; taught their children to destroy and hate the Saints and the cultures housing the Saints.

Sherem just wanted to profit and deny Christ. He wanted no accountability. His model wasn't sophisticated yet. He taught there is no sin because there is no God. And he had clever learning at the top of their civilization to confuse people. (How can such a learned man be wrong?) But then it evolves...

King Noah; allow filth, corruption, and false teaching to grow up from within. Nay, not allow it only but grow it in the decadence of sin (wine & sexual sin). But it evolved further...

Korihor taught we should be popular and get money and wealth by priestcrafts. We should sell the church, but only the strong, handsome, and wealthy should be at the top. We should be about whats in it for us, and not labor with our hands but live off others. But then it evolves again...

Nehor was especially dangerous. Nehor teaching was the idea of persecute the Saints of God, (and the innocent) and put them in bondage. But you do it AFTER you make the victims look like the villains. In essence they taught to villainize the good. The Lord also told Alma one reason why Ammonihah was destroyed was because they were teaching and plotting how to overthrow the government and the liberty of the people.

Mosiah 10:17 And thus they have taught their children that they should hate them, and that they should murder them, and that they should rob and plunder them, and do all they could to destroy them; therefore they have an eternal hatred towards the children of Nephi.

4 Nephi 1:27 And it came to pass that when two hundred and ten years had passed away there were many churches in the land; yea, there were many churches which professed to know the Christ, and yet they did deny the more parts of his gospel, insomuch that they did receive all manner of wickedness, and did administer that which was sacred unto him to whom it had been forbidden because of unworthiness. (They allow willingly the good parts of the vineyard to be overcome. The Vineyard is overcome and no good fruit comes. The entire Vineyard must be rehabilitated from the roots and ground level of the stones. (This is the true meaning of the words in the New Testament that 'God can raise up seed of Abraham from these stones'. It represents that the Vineyard has to be started all over from scratch.)

So nobody is judging anyone. Also I would point this out. Usually the people accusing of judging are doing so to disarm the good, so that they can conduct mischief unheeded. 1 Nephi 17:22 (Laman & Lemuel try to sway their father with LIES to believe that Nephi is bad and that they are good.) "...And we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people; and our father hath judged them, and hath led us away because we would hearken unto his words; yea, and our brother is like unto him. And after this manner of language did my brethren murmur and complain against us. (Tell the truth--> showing what truth and error is. In the event of doing so someone is offended because their wickedness is shown. They will hate the good for revealing their sins, but if its not done so the VICTIMS will be MANY.

The true meaning; If we allow the teachings of Korihor types, Sherem types, and especially the most dangerous Nehor type teaching then the victims will be so many that few will be able to endure to the end; scriptural example here;

Jacob 5:46 And now, behold, notwithstanding all the care which we have taken of my vineyard, the trees thereof have become corrupted, that they bring forth no good fruit; and these I had hoped to preserve, to have laid up fruit thereof against the season, unto mine own self. But, behold, they have become like unto the wild olive tree, and they are of no worth but to be hewn down and cast into the fire; and it grieveth me that I should lose them. (This is what we're fighting against everyday. This is why we need to be reading the scriptures, praying, and keeping our family in the church. We aren't given a free pass and free ticket to Heaven. The so called dispensation that won't be destroyed like the others, will only be as such if we don't allow such things to happen.)

1 Nephi 13:5

5 And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity. (Most people are happily complying with being spiritually slain as long as they aren't slain physically. That's the problem. People aren't trying to stop that the spiritual famine in the land is still here for those that don't know about God, and that have rejected Christ.)

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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by silk »

Thank you, gardener4life. That response to marc was much more thorough than mine would have been. Let me just add one more thing.

Marc talked about the idea of us "judging" the remnant. That word always causes me to pause, because it's such a weighty concept. Your post has shown very clearly my own thoughts -- that it's not people we're judging, but ideas. And that, we are not only encouraged, but required, to do. I feel comfortable in judging ideas against my understanding of the scriptures and the Restoration. I'm not always right, but I always learn something in the process. But none of us on this forum are in a position to judge people, neither to exalt nor to condemn them. God looks on the heart, whereas on a forum we can't even look on the face.

As for coming to Zion, the scriptures from previous dispensations show a division among the people before it can come. People must choose one side or the other. In Enoch's case, the people self-selected -- they either followed Enoch as the "people of God", or they stayed with the world. For the Nephites, massive destruction did the work for them, sparing those that were "more righteous". I believe that in our own day, we will see more and more this division. As the world grows more wicked, it will be much more difficult to stand with Christ. Those in the church for any other reason other than a deep, abiding testimony of the Savior and His work, will find it much easier and more comfortable elsewhere.

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Re: Priesthood keys taken from Denver Snuffer

Post by marc »

Thank you both for your thoughtful replies. I do see that more care has been taken recently to discuss ideas more so than to judge and accuse persons, i.e. name calling. I also appreciate your careful use of scriptures to support your positions rather than just make unsubstantiated declarations, which often happens in these discussions. It has pained me to see how some in the "remnant" movement have been attacked and accused. Many are very dear friends to me whom I love, some who have been abused by their church leaders and why they have become outcasts in church and on this forum. I actually took the time to get to know many of them. I feel when the Spirit is grieved every time one of God's children is judged/name-called, whatever path they choose. We are all sinners, unredeemed and wicked because of our fallen and carnal nature. The Lord is grieved whenever any of His children becomes an accuser of any of His other children.

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