Deleted

[Ezra]

Arenera

On a side note I have noticed that with your comments you don’t seem interested in helping others understand and better themselves. Help lift them up to a better understand. You seem more interested in just arguing for the sake of the argument.

I would challenge you in your posts to try to lift other up. Help them understand how and why a better way to think would be. Back it up by scriptures and facts and above all with love.

[Arenera]

Arenera

On a side note I have noticed that with your comments you don’t seem interested in helping others understand and better themselves. Help lift them up to a better understand. You seem more interested in just arguing for the sake of the argument.

I would challenge you in your posts to try to lift other up. Help them understand how and why a better way to think would be. Back it up by scriptures and facts and above all with love.

Knowing that Romney is very popular in Utah, I have wondered why so many at LDSFF are very negative about him. In my journey, I see many LDSFF with a Constitution Party leaning, even claiming backing from a Church President. Certainly people have the right to vote how they want.

The world has rejected the gospel that is spread by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Let’s say there are 6 million Mormons in the US. Well, there are 380 million people in the US. If all 6 million Mormons vote as one, they still can’t affect a change in the US.

Less than 1% of all US people vote for the Constitution Party. That won’t change anything.

Claiming that Mormons are going to hell because they don’t vote Constitution Party, is a bunch of bunk.

Vote how you will, that is your choice. But you are incorrect to say Mormons are out of line because they don’t vote the same way you do.

[Ezra]

Arenera

On a side note I have noticed that with your comments you don’t seem interested in helping others understand and better themselves. Help lift them up to a better understand. You seem more interested in just arguing for the sake of the argument.

I would challenge you in your posts to try to lift other up. Help them understand how and why a better way to think would be. Back it up by scriptures and facts and above all with love.

Knowing that Romney is very popular in Utah, I have wondered why so many at LDSFF are very negative about him. In my journey, I see many LDSFF with a Constitution Party leaning, even claiming backing from a Church President. Certainly people have the right to vote how they want.

The world has rejected the gospel that is spread by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Let’s say there are 6 million Mormons in the US. Well, there are 380 million people in the US. If all 6 million Mormons vote as one, they still can’t affect a change in the US.

Less than 1% of all US people vote for the Constitution Party. That won’t change anything.

Claiming that Mormons are going to hell because they don’t vote Constitution Party, is a bunch of bunk.

Vote how you will, that is your choice. But you are incorrect to say Mormons are out of line because they don’t vote the same way you do.

I can say they are wrong if they are wrong.

People are supposed to vote as they see fit. But if their reasons are twisted then it’s also our duty to try to inform them when we have become informed ourself. d&c 88 76-82

By means of a very specific way explained in d&c 121

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—.

They have their agency. We have are duty to become informed and teach others.

But as we know many are called few chosen. Because they practice unrighteous dominion. Which takes place for the most part in their wrongful involvement in government programs and candidates who progress those socialistic agendas.

You can either listen or never awake to your awful situation. The choice is yours. But the duty and commandment to open our mouths and warn our neighbors is given to all regardless.

[lundbaek]

Arenera asked 2 questions which I think we should all give thought to:

1.) At what point do you consider the constitution to be acceptable. For example, after the civil war?

2.) What are the top 10 grievances you have today where you consider we are out of line?

My replies:
1.) In the April 1976 General Conference Ezra Taft Benson stated "To me its [the Constitution] words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed his stamp of approval on the Constitution of this land." On earlier occasions both Elder Benson and Joseph Fielding Smith said the same thing. So in trying to figure out what that stamp of approval was, I finally decided it is found in D&C 98:4-7, D&C 101:77 & 80, and D&C 109: 54. These were given in 1833, 1833 & 1836 respectively. So I accept that the Constitution and the first 12 amendments were acceptable to the Lord by 1836.:

2.) My top grievances, or where I think America has gotten out of line Re. the Constitution are:
a) I think it was a mistake to provide in the 14th Amendmant that all persons born in the U.S.A. are automatically citizens.
b) The 16th Amendment provided for a federal income tax which I disapprove, and which is now about 10 higher than originally promised, and further abused by various changes
c) The 17th Amendment allowed U.S. senators to be elected by popular vote instead of elected by the respective state legislatures, making senators beholden to voters instead of to the state legislators.
d) I'm pretty sure the Church First Presidency supported the 18th amendment, which prohibited manufacture and sale of booze. I think think that amendment gave rise to criminal activity, and that the issue should have been left to the individual states.
e) the 21st Amendment repealed "prohibition". President Grant, the Prophet at the time, asked the Saint to oppose it and vote against it in Utah. I think its repeal put an end to a lot of crime.
f) The 22nd Amendment limited the U.S. President to 2 terms. I disapprove of term limits. Voters should be able to decide how long an elected official remains in office.
g) Several Prophets have warned that we have apostatized in various ways from the Constitution. A book could be written on that subject. 1) Congress no longer declares war, 2) Recent U.S. Presidents have refused to enforce certain laws, most notably to me, the immigration laws, 3) The Fed is unconstitutional, as is its creation of money, 4) Welfare and foreign aid are unconstitutional.
That's my 10 grievances. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

[Arenera]

Arenera asked 2 questions which I think we should all give thought to:

1.) At what point do you consider the constitution to be acceptable. For example, after the civil war?

2.) What are the top 10 grievances you have today where you consider we are out of line?

My replies:
1.) In the April 1976 General Conference Ezra Taft Benson stated "To me its [the Constitution] words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed his stamp of approval on the Constitution of this land." On earlier occasions both Elder Benson and Joseph Fielding Smith said the same thing. So in trying to figure out what that stamp of approval was, I finally decided it is found in D&C 98:4-7, D&C 101:77 & 80, and D&C 109: 54. These were given in 1833, 1833 & 1836 respectively. So I accept that the Constitution and the first 12 amendments were acceptable to the Lord by 1836.:

2.) My top grievances, or where I think America has gotten out of line Re. the Constitution are:
a) I think it was a mistake to provide in the 14th Amendmant that all persons born in the U.S.A. are automatically citizens.
b) The 16th Amendment provided for a federal income tax which I disapprove, and which is now about 10 higher than originally promised, and further abused by various changes
c) The 17th Amendment allowed U.S. senators to be elected by popular vote instead of elected by the respective state legislatures, making senators beholden to voters instead of to the state legislators.
d) I'm pretty sure the Church First Presidency supported the 18th amendment, which prohibited manufacture and sale of booze. I think think that amendment gave rise to criminal activity, and that the issue should have been left to the individual states.
e) the 21st Amendment repealed "prohibition". President Grant, the Prophet at the time, asked the Saint to oppose it and vote against it in Utah. I think its repeal put an end to a lot of crime.
f) The 22nd Amendment limited the U.S. President to 2 terms. I disapprove of term limits. Voters should be able to decide how long an elected official remains in office.
g) Several Prophets have warned that we have apostatized in various ways from the Constitution. A book could be written on that subject. 1) Congress no longer declares war, 2) Recent U.S. Presidents have refused to enforce certain laws, most notably to me, the immigration laws, 3) The Fed is unconstitutional, as is its creation of money, 4) Welfare and foreign aid are unconstitutional.
That's my 10 grievances. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Thank you for your response.

I think maybe 1% of people would agree with you, which would require a different way to package your message to get more support, even with Mormons.

[Ezra]

Arenera asked 2 questions which I think we should all give thought to:

1.) At what point do you consider the constitution to be acceptable. For example, after the civil war?

2.) What are the top 10 grievances you have today where you consider we are out of line?

My replies:
1.) In the April 1976 General Conference Ezra Taft Benson stated "To me its [the Constitution] words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed his stamp of approval on the Constitution of this land." On earlier occasions both Elder Benson and Joseph Fielding Smith said the same thing. So in trying to figure out what that stamp of approval was, I finally decided it is found in D&C 98:4-7, D&C 101:77 & 80, and D&C 109: 54. These were given in 1833, 1833 & 1836 respectively. So I accept that the Constitution and the first 12 amendments were acceptable to the Lord by 1836.:

2.) My top grievances, or where I think America has gotten out of line Re. the Constitution are:
a) I think it was a mistake to provide in the 14th Amendmant that all persons born in the U.S.A. are automatically citizens.
b) The 16th Amendment provided for a federal income tax which I disapprove, and which is now about 10 higher than originally promised, and further abused by various changes
c) The 17th Amendment allowed U.S. senators to be elected by popular vote instead of elected by the respective state legislatures, making senators beholden to voters instead of to the state legislators.
d) I'm pretty sure the Church First Presidency supported the 18th amendment, which prohibited manufacture and sale of booze. I think think that amendment gave rise to criminal activity, and that the issue should have been left to the individual states.
e) the 21st Amendment repealed "prohibition". President Grant, the Prophet at the time, asked the Saint to oppose it and vote against it in Utah. I think its repeal put an end to a lot of crime.
f) The 22nd Amendment limited the U.S. President to 2 terms. I disapprove of term limits. Voters should be able to decide how long an elected official remains in office.
g) Several Prophets have warned that we have apostatized in various ways from the Constitution. A book could be written on that subject. 1) Congress no longer declares war, 2) Recent U.S. Presidents have refused to enforce certain laws, most notably to me, the immigration laws, 3) The Fed is unconstitutional, as is its creation of money, 4) Welfare and foreign aid are unconstitutional.
That's my 10 grievances. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Thank you for your response.

I think maybe 1% of people would agree with you, which would require a different way to package your message to get more support, even with Mormons.

Your really stuck on 1%. Where do you get your data?

It’s been my experience that it’s more like 50%.

I would bet on this forum it’s higher then 50%. 75% more likely.

But I have noticed the trend of people who study scripture more and read and study past prophets as well are current are the ones who agree. The ones who don’t study tend to agree less.

[simpleton]

“It is alleged and reiterated that we do not love the institutions of our country. I say, and have so said for many years, that the Constitution and laws of the United States combine the best form of Government in force upon the earth. But does it follow that each officer of the Government administers with justice? No; for it is well known throughout our nation that very many of our public officers are as degraded, debased, corrupt, and regardless of right as men well can be.

“I repeat that the Constitution, laws, and institutions of our Government are as good as can be, with the intelligence now possessed by the people. But they, as also the laws of other nations, are too often administered in unrighteousness; and we do not and cannot love and respect the acts of the administrators of our laws, unless they act justly in their offices.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:344.

[ParticleMan]

"I love my country, not my government."

[Arenera]

Arenera asked 2 questions which I think we should all give thought to:

1.) At what point do you consider the constitution to be acceptable. For example, after the civil war?

2.) What are the top 10 grievances you have today where you consider we are out of line?

My replies:
1.) In the April 1976 General Conference Ezra Taft Benson stated "To me its [the Constitution] words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed his stamp of approval on the Constitution of this land." On earlier occasions both Elder Benson and Joseph Fielding Smith said the same thing. So in trying to figure out what that stamp of approval was, I finally decided it is found in D&C 98:4-7, D&C 101:77 & 80, and D&C 109: 54. These were given in 1833, 1833 & 1836 respectively. So I accept that the Constitution and the first 12 amendments were acceptable to the Lord by 1836.:

2.) My top grievances, or where I think America has gotten out of line Re. the Constitution are:
a) I think it was a mistake to provide in the 14th Amendmant that all persons born in the U.S.A. are automatically citizens.
b) The 16th Amendment provided for a federal income tax which I disapprove, and which is now about 10 higher than originally promised, and further abused by various changes
c) The 17th Amendment allowed U.S. senators to be elected by popular vote instead of elected by the respective state legislatures, making senators beholden to voters instead of to the state legislators.
d) I'm pretty sure the Church First Presidency supported the 18th amendment, which prohibited manufacture and sale of booze. I think think that amendment gave rise to criminal activity, and that the issue should have been left to the individual states.
e) the 21st Amendment repealed "prohibition". President Grant, the Prophet at the time, asked the Saint to oppose it and vote against it in Utah. I think its repeal put an end to a lot of crime.
f) The 22nd Amendment limited the U.S. President to 2 terms. I disapprove of term limits. Voters should be able to decide how long an elected official remains in office.
g) Several Prophets have warned that we have apostatized in various ways from the Constitution. A book could be written on that subject. 1) Congress no longer declares war, 2) Recent U.S. Presidents have refused to enforce certain laws, most notably to me, the immigration laws, 3) The Fed is unconstitutional, as is its creation of money, 4) Welfare and foreign aid are unconstitutional.
That's my 10 grievances. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Thank you for your response.

I think maybe 1% of people would agree with you, which would require a different way to package your message to get more support, even with Mormons.

Your really stuck on 1%. Where do you get your data?

It’s been my experience that it’s more like 50%.

I would bet on this forum it’s higher then 50%. 75% more likely.

But I have noticed the trend of people who study scripture more and read and study past prophets as well are current are the ones who agree. The ones who don’t study tend to agree less.

If Romney was running for Senator today, he would get 70% of the vote in Utah.

Where did I get my data? I looked at the vote counts for President in Utah, where Trump won. Less than 1% of Utahns voted for the Constitution Party. I looked at the vote counts in the US, and again, less than 1% of the US voted for the Constitution Party.

LDSFF is spread across states, but in total compared to the US population, you are less than 1%.

You can certainly believe how you want, but at 1%, you are not going to impact anything.

For example, the Federal Reserve has been in place for over 100 years. If you were going to get rid of it, you need more than 1% of people involved.

Even if you take 6 million Mormons and make them vote Constitution Party, you have a fringe group that no one will listen to.

And telling 99% of Mormons that they are fence sitters and will go to hell is just baloney.

And is spending your time studying past Presidents good? I like Brigham Young but he lived a long time ago.

[Fiannan]

Yes, Romney would win because, as a minority religion, we tend to identify with those who share our beliefs. This is why Mormons would also vote for the likes of Harry Reid if he ran for senate in Utah.

[ParticleMan]

Yes, Romney would win because, as a minority religion, we tend to identify with those who share our beliefs. This is why Mormons would also vote for the likes of Harry Reid if he ran for senate in Utah.

Some, however, neither identify with nor vote for hypocrites.

[lundbaek]

As I just a few minutes ago wrote on another thread, I believe that not until after the cleansing of America will we be able to get back to the inspired formula of the original Constitution. In the meantime, we can and should prepare for that day and encourage people to learn the principles of the Constitution (in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, as President Benson advised in Oct. 1987) and start upholding and abiding by them. And to me that means actively supporting candidates of government offices who espouse and will abide by those principles.

[Arenera]

As I just a few minutes ago wrote on another thread, I believe that not until after the cleansing of America will we be able to get back to the inspired formula of the original Constitution. In the meantime, we can and should prepare for that day and encourage people to learn the principles of the Constitution (in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, as President Benson advised in Oct. 1987) and start upholding and abiding by them. And to me that means actively supporting candidates of government offices who espouse and will abide by those principles.

You certainly can vote for the 1%. Today that would be similar to not voting. Looking forward, Zion people are pure in heart, no poor amoung them, really won’t need a constitution, they already have it inside themselves.

[Ezra]

Arenera asked 2 questions which I think we should all give thought to:

1.) At what point do you consider the constitution to be acceptable. For example, after the civil war?

2.) What are the top 10 grievances you have today where you consider we are out of line?

My replies:
1.) In the April 1976 General Conference Ezra Taft Benson stated "To me its [the Constitution] words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed his stamp of approval on the Constitution of this land." On earlier occasions both Elder Benson and Joseph Fielding Smith said the same thing. So in trying to figure out what that stamp of approval was, I finally decided it is found in D&C 98:4-7, D&C 101:77 & 80, and D&C 109: 54. These were given in 1833, 1833 & 1836 respectively. So I accept that the Constitution and the first 12 amendments were acceptable to the Lord by 1836.:

2.) My top grievances, or where I think America has gotten out of line Re. the Constitution are:
a) I think it was a mistake to provide in the 14th Amendmant that all persons born in the U.S.A. are automatically citizens.
b) The 16th Amendment provided for a federal income tax which I disapprove, and which is now about 10 higher than originally promised, and further abused by various changes
c) The 17th Amendment allowed U.S. senators to be elected by popular vote instead of elected by the respective state legislatures, making senators beholden to voters instead of to the state legislators.
d) I'm pretty sure the Church First Presidency supported the 18th amendment, which prohibited manufacture and sale of booze. I think think that amendment gave rise to criminal activity, and that the issue should have been left to the individual states.
e) the 21st Amendment repealed "prohibition". President Grant, the Prophet at the time, asked the Saint to oppose it and vote against it in Utah. I think its repeal put an end to a lot of crime.
f) The 22nd Amendment limited the U.S. President to 2 terms. I disapprove of term limits. Voters should be able to decide how long an elected official remains in office.
g) Several Prophets have warned that we have apostatized in various ways from the Constitution. A book could be written on that subject. 1) Congress no longer declares war, 2) Recent U.S. Presidents have refused to enforce certain laws, most notably to me, the immigration laws, 3) The Fed is unconstitutional, as is its creation of money, 4) Welfare and foreign aid are unconstitutional.
That's my 10 grievances. I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Thank you for your response.

I think maybe 1% of people would agree with you, which would require a different way to package your message to get more support, even with Mormons.

Your really stuck on 1%. Where do you get your data?

It’s been my experience that it’s more like 50%.

I would bet on this forum it’s higher then 50%. 75% more likely.

But I have noticed the trend of people who study scripture more and read and study past prophets as well are current are the ones who agree. The ones who don’t study tend to agree less.

If Romney was running for Senator today, he would get 70% of the vote in Utah.

Where did I get my data? I looked at the vote counts for President in Utah, where Trump won. Less than 1% of Utahns voted for the Constitution Party. I looked at the vote counts in the US, and again, less than 1% of the US voted for the Constitution Party.

LDSFF is spread across states, but in total compared to the US population, you are less than 1%.

You can certainly believe how you want, but at 1%, you are not going to impact anything.

For example, the Federal Reserve has been in place for over 100 years. If you were going to get rid of it, you need more than 1% of people involved.

Even if you take 6 million Mormons and make them vote Constitution Party, you have a fringe group that no one will listen to.

And telling 99% of Mormons that they are fence sitters and will go to hell is just baloney.

And is spending your time studying past Presidents good? I like Brigham Young but he lived a long time ago.

Is it good to study past prophets?????? You mean like the scriptures??? Yes. The scriptures even say so. I am surprised you don’t know this. I’m guessing you don’t study scriptures much at all. Study 2 Nephi chapter 29.

But here is one verse inpercticulor

11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

Also d&c 88:
118 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.

The spoken and written words of all our modern prophets have also been put into books. Many have written books themselves. We will be judge by those words. If your ignorant of them or not you will be judged. You have no excuse as you have been warned by scriptures which you are supposed to read.


You will have to take it up with god on being called a fence sitter by a prophet. Those where Ezra Taft Bensons words written in a book by himself as prophet.

1% vote doesn’t equal 1 % who would agree. There are many people who know and agree with constitutional principles. And many of those people voted to keep Hillary out instead of voting for the most worthy constitutional good honest candidate.

Many people who agree with constitutional principles are also not informed or aware of how the media is owned and bias towards their chosen front runners.

I agree that there is little we can do with our vote vs the majority of uninformed voters.

But that doesn’t change what is right. We are supposed to vote for good wise honest people. D&c 98 5-7. If we don’t will only bring about evil.

So ya if you want to pat yourself on the back for being part of a vote that will bring about evil, pat yourself on the back. It doesn’t change what your doing or how you will be judged for your part in bringing about the unrighteous domion of your fellow men.

It’s a very serious thing.

If 99% of the nation decides and votes for bad things it does not somehow make it right or good.

Justifying it doesn’t make it right or good either.

We can only serve one master. We are either on his side or not. There is no grey area.

[lundbaek]

I don't care one whit if only 1% of people would agree with me. I have studied as best I can the words of the Lord and the words of latter-day prophets and apostles Re. freedom/liberty, the responsibility of Latter-day Saints to the U.S. Constitution, our charge to suffer not that the murderous combinations shall get above us, which are build up to get power and gain, and how to decide whom to vote for.

There may be better, more effective ways to persuade people, especially Latter-day Saints, to awake to as sense of our awful situation and to oppose the works of the murderous combinations which are intent on destroying the constitutional government the American Founding Fathers gave us and making a shambles of the society and government established by the U.S. Constitution, and saddle the United States with a centralized socialist government and make our nation subservient to a single, world government, a.k.a. the New World Order. There may be better, more effective ways to persuade people, especially Latter-day Saints, to learn, uphold and abide by the principles of the US Constitution "in the tradition of the Founding Fathers". Apparently, even prophets like Presidents McKay, Clark, Benson and others accomplished not as much as they had hoped in that regard. And I've had far less success, but I have had some. And some of that success came by way of my explanations as to why I never voted for Donald Trump, Mitt Romney, John McCain, Jeff Flake, and certain other RINOs. And to me that is more important than being on a winning team that promotes and supports multiple egregious violations of the principles of freedom/liberty and the US Constitution.

We few who prefer to resist our increasing subservience to the latter-day gadiantons that Moroni told us in no uncertain terms would be among us in our day look forward to that later day when a remnant of our society will participate in the restoration of the principles of government that the Lord wanted to to live under.

[Arenera]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

[harakim]

Arenera

On a side note I have noticed that with your comments you don’t seem interested in helping others understand and better themselves. Help lift them up to a better understand. You seem more interested in just arguing for the sake of the argument.

I would challenge you in your posts to try to lift other up. Help them understand how and why a better way to think would be. Back it up by scriptures and facts and above all with love.

Knowing that Romney is very popular in Utah, I have wondered why so many at LDSFF are very negative about him. In my journey, I see many LDSFF with a Constitution Party leaning, even claiming backing from a Church President. Certainly people have the right to vote how they want.

The world has rejected the gospel that is spread by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Let’s say there are 6 million Mormons in the US. Well, there are 380 million people in the US. If all 6 million Mormons vote as one, they still can’t affect a change in the US.

Less than 1% of all US people vote for the Constitution Party. That won’t change anything.

Claiming that Mormons are going to hell because they don’t vote Constitution Party, is a bunch of bunk.

Vote how you will, that is your choice. But you are incorrect to say Mormons are out of line because they don’t vote the same way you do.

Woe unto the world because of poor leadership! for it must needs be that poor leadership come; but woe to that man by whom the poor leadership cometh!

[Ezra]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

Who are the remnant that you keep referring too?

What group are you referring to that is calling you a fence sitter? Ezra Taft Benson was the one who I quoted that refered to people who are not involved righteously in the battle for our free agency today as fence sitters and also the 1/3 of host of heaven that were cast out for following the same destructive line of thinking that Satan tricks people into believing.

But I don’t see how quoting a prophet makes anyone some how part of a group.

I do see you taking on that lable yourself. Did the prophets words hit close to home? Did you take offense to his words?


This is what I have learned about taking offense. If the scriptures offend you or something a prophet says offends you you should really really listen and figure out why.

Luke 7: 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Satan uses becoming offended as a means to distract you from leaning a very important message. No matter really who it is that is causing the offense a lesson could be being learned. Satan knows this and is why he try’s so hard get people to take offense to what others say.

The labels that you place on others during the time you are choosing to be offended make it easy for you to ignore them. They cause you to Look down on them for the offense they supposedly caused. Instead of thinking on the message they bring.

It’s a very tricky slight of hand Satan uses to keep us from growing and becoming better.

I hope that you will look past the offense you chosen to take on and instead look for what you can learn and do better in spite of the efforts Satan has taken to keep you from growing.

[Arenera]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

Who are the remnant that you keep referring too?

What group are you referring to that is calling you a fence sitter? Ezra Taft Benson was the one who I quoted that refered to people who are not involved righteously in the battle for our free agency today as fence sitters and also the 1/3 of host of heaven that were cast out for following the same destructive line of thinking that Satan tricks people into believing.

But I don’t see how quoting a prophet makes anyone some how part of a group.

I do see you taking on that lable yourself. Did the prophets words hit close to home? Did you take offense to his words?


This is what I have learned about taking offense. If the scriptures offend you or something a prophet says offends you you should really really listen and figure out why.

Luke 7: 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Satan uses becoming offended as a means to distract you from leaning a very important message. No matter really who it is that is causing the offense a lesson could be being learned. Satan knows this and is why he try’s so hard get people to take offense to what others say.

The labels that you place on others during the time you are choosing to be offended make it easy for you to ignore them. They cause you to Look down on them for the offense they supposedly caused. Instead of thinking on the message they bring.

It’s a very tricky slight of hand Satan uses to keep us from growing and becoming better.

I hope that you will look past the offense you chosen to take on and instead look for what you can learn and do better in spite of the efforts Satan has taken to keep you from growing.

Your words tell exactly what you are. You can always tell when someone has a weak position, they hide behind a past prophet and tell anyone who questions their position that they are part of Satan’s group.

You have identified yourself and your weak position.

[Ezra]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

Christ does want people to go to heaven. Your correct in that.

He wants us to have agnency too.

Satan plan was to force people to do the right thing.

Christ wanted us to choose it on our own.

1/3 of the host of heaven were kick out for not choosing god side of agency vs force. They either didn’t actively choose gods side or they chose Satan’s plan.

He warns us in scriptures d&c 121 33-43 that many of us are called few chosen. Because we practice unrighteous dominion (force) over our fellow men.

It’s no surprise that we are still being judged in this life if we choose the side of god and agency vs Satan and force. Especially with the veil in place to see if we really choose it for ourselves.

So yes Christ wants us all to choose to go to heaven. But the choice is our just as it was in the pre existence. Will we choose Christ and God and heaven. Or will we choose force?

If we choose force we still go to heaven. Almost all do who have a body. Other then sons of perdition. But will we choose to live a law that will grant us entry to the highest kingdom???

Many are called few chosen. Few will be chosen. God knows this and has warned us. This warning is so we can recognize that there are few and dedicate ourself to being the part of the few. At least those who choose to dedicate themselves vs those who just do the minimum.

I hope to be chosen. And I try hard to dedicate myself to the task.

[Ezra]

Y’all are quite pleased with yourselves. You sound just like Remnants.

At least I understand where you are coming from. Someone said I was negative yet it is your group calling people fence sitters and saying they will go to hell.

Your message is all wrong. Christ wants people to go to heaven. That is the message our missionaries take out. That is the right way to do it.

Who are the remnant that you keep referring too?

What group are you referring to that is calling you a fence sitter? Ezra Taft Benson was the one who I quoted that refered to people who are not involved righteously in the battle for our free agency today as fence sitters and also the 1/3 of host of heaven that were cast out for following the same destructive line of thinking that Satan tricks people into believing.

But I don’t see how quoting a prophet makes anyone some how part of a group.

I do see you taking on that lable yourself. Did the prophets words hit close to home? Did you take offense to his words?


This is what I have learned about taking offense. If the scriptures offend you or something a prophet says offends you you should really really listen and figure out why.

Luke 7: 23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Satan uses becoming offended as a means to distract you from leaning a very important message. No matter really who it is that is causing the offense a lesson could be being learned. Satan knows this and is why he try’s so hard get people to take offense to what others say.

The labels that you place on others during the time you are choosing to be offended make it easy for you to ignore them. They cause you to Look down on them for the offense they supposedly caused. Instead of thinking on the message they bring.

It’s a very tricky slight of hand Satan uses to keep us from growing and becoming better.

I hope that you will look past the offense you chosen to take on and instead look for what you can learn and do better in spite of the efforts Satan has taken to keep you from growing.

Your words tell exactly what you are. You can always tell when someone has a weak position, they hide behind a past prophet and tell anyone who questions their position that they are part of Satan’s group.

You have identified yourself and your weak position.

A weak position is one not backed by prophets and scriptures.

Try again. And thanks for making me laugh out loud. That was great. Seriously that was a good laugh.


Please use scripture and prophets to prove your side.
Please Change my mind by actual words of prophets. I’m seriously inviting you too.

Teach us how strong your position is. I want to learn. And if I’m not thinking correctly please teach me.

[Arenera]

Current prophets and apostles, listen to them.

For voting, find out positions, vote for good people.

President Monson and President Benson, read the Book of Mormon.

The Remnants don’t go further than Joseph Smith. The contitutionists stop at President Benson.

Can a Mormon go to the Celestial Kingdom if they vote:
- Republican
- Democrat
- Independent
- Libertarian
- Constitution Party

[Ezra]

Current prophets and apostles, listen to them.

For voting, find out positions, vote for good people.

President Monson and President Benson, read the Book of Mormon.

The Remnants don’t go further than Joseph Smith. The contitutionists stop at President Benson.

Can a Mormon go to the Celestial Kingdom if they vote:
- Republican
- Democrat
- Independent
- Libertarian
- Constitution Party

I was really hoping you would have a single prophetic word or scripture to back up your thoughts. But you have proven just how week your position truly is. Thank you for your reply.

[Arenera]

Current prophets and apostles, listen to them.

For voting, find out positions, vote for good people.

President Monson and President Benson, read the Book of Mormon.

The Remnants don’t go further than Joseph Smith. The contitutionists stop at President Benson.

Can a Mormon go to the Celestial Kingdom if they vote:
- Republican
- Democrat
- Independent
- Libertarian
- Constitution Party

I was really hoping you would have a single prophetic word or scripture to back up your thoughts. But you have proven just how week your position truly is. Thank you for your reply.

I already posted this, from the Living First Presidency.

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church
As citizens we have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects our communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs.

We also urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Along with the options available to you through the Internet, debates, and other sources, the Church occasionally posts information about particular moral issues on which it has taken a position at www.MormonNewsroom.org.

Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles.

While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and candidates, individual members should participate in the political process. The Church also affirms its constitutional right of expression on political and social issues.

Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
The First Presidency.

Strong. Game, set, match.

[lundbaek]

Game, Set, Match, Ezra wins.

"read the Book of Mormon."

"spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering."

" be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs."