How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

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TrueIntent
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by TrueIntent »

An ordinance is a type, shadow, and pattern.....it doesn't say event, or witness, or acceptance of. Type, shadow and pattern means exactly what it means....a type of the real thing, a pattern of he real thing, a shadow of the real thing....a shadow isn't you.....but it's like you...and it's an image or pattern for you....so you can kinda visualize. Were supposed to apply these things to ourselves.

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TrueIntent
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by TrueIntent »

eddie wrote: November 9th, 2017, 12:33 pm Wonderful post, thank you.

Question, when we read the words of people here questioning our leaders , are we affiliating with apostates? Sometimes I don't even want the words in my head, although I'm not impressionable, some are.
If you can't listen to the words of an "apostate" without fear of it influencing you.....then I could see bigger issues for you in the future. See i would actually encourage you to face the words of those things you fear directly. How do you expect to discern the words of a korihor....see, those seeking to diceive you are the ones who will flatter you with their words.l.you won't see it coming. I choose to confront those things directly and take it to the scriptures.....we shouldn't be afraid of information.....how would you discern Christ if he came....the entire Jewish leadership claimed he was a blasphemer and a fraud. Only those who were willing to listen would scratch the surface of whether or not he was....we shouldn't be afraid of people and information, instead we should build ourselves up to be able to discern the information.

I don't worry whether or not the conversations I have are with someone who has diffenrt views or even carries the "label" of an apostate.....I worry about whether or not a person influences me and leads me to believe something contrary to scriptures.....follow the spirit, and study the scriptures...frame all your beliefs around the teachings of Jesus Christ....He should be our filter and lens. Remember, even Jesus Christ was labeled an "apostate"...and so was his apostles .it's just a label....discern the message, and u will find true messengers. ..there are prophets and false prophets....discern the message, don't adopt someone else's label for an individual. You may miss out on a true messenger.

drtanner
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by drtanner »

Do you ever scratch your head after reading some of these responses and wonder how in the world people draw conclusions about the intented purpose of a post?

Maybe I need to be a better communicator or just spell things out a little clearer? A forum is great for many reasons but sometimes I wish I could have an old fashion face to face conversation.

Juliet
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by Juliet »

Maybe the wheat struggles because it can sense evil but it can't see or identify the tares among them. Hold on folks, the church is true but the 2nd coming has not happened yet.

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TrueIntent
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

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drtanner wrote: November 14th, 2017, 8:30 pm Do you ever scratch your head after reading some of these responses and wonder how in the world people draw conclusions about the intented purpose of a post?

Maybe I need to be a better communicator or just spell things out a little clearer? A forum is great for many reasons but sometimes I wish I could have an old fashion face to face conversation.
Or maybe speak directly instead of passively. Like....is the comment above in reference to what or whom? Or why did you just make that comment.

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TrueIntent
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

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Juliet wrote: November 14th, 2017, 8:46 pm Maybe the wheat struggles because it can sense evil but it can't see or identify the tares among them. Hold on folks, the church is true but the 2nd coming has not happened yet.
I just want to say....yes....I hope I'm a wheat...I strive to be...but either way it's clear...I've got trust issues...and it spilled over into my relationship with God...I used to equate God with the LDS Church.....not the same, and I try to separate the two..revelation is only as correct as the person receiving it and then interpreting it, That goes for all of us, I look forward to the day when the Way, the Truth, and the light is leading....I look forward to the day when I can have complete trust because HE is Truth. Until then,...I'll keep seeking. But I love the LDS church...it might not sound like it sometimes...that's just a reflection of someone who had their trust violated...it doesn't mean the church isn't a good institution because it is.

Juliet
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by Juliet »

TrueIntent wrote: November 14th, 2017, 9:05 pm
Juliet wrote: November 14th, 2017, 8:46 pm Maybe the wheat struggles because it can sense evil but it can't see or identify the tares among them. Hold on folks, the church is true but the 2nd coming has not happened yet.
I just want to say....yes....I hope I'm a wheat...I strive to be...but either way it's clear...I've got trust issues...and it spilled over into my relationship with God...I used to equate God with the LDS Church.....not the same, and I try to separate the two..revelation is only as correct as the person receiving it and then interpreting it, That goes for all of us, I look forward to the day when the Way, the Truth, and the light is leading....I look forward to the day when I can have complete trust because HE is Truth. Until then,...I'll keep seeking. But I love the LDS church...it might not sound like it sometimes...that's just a reflection of someone who had their trust violated...it doesn't mean the church isn't a good institution because it is.
You are OK and understood. I have had major trust issues with God too. Didn't even Jesus have a one on one where He questioned God's actions? But finally He accepted God's will.

I have faith that we all want to find joy. That desire in each of us is going to get the world straightened out one way or another. Until then, I think sometimes even the bad guys wish that the good guys would hurry up and win because then we can all be happy and not worry about the control the bad guys seek for so much to compensate for their own misery.

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On The Fringe
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by On The Fringe »

Sirocco wrote: November 13th, 2017, 10:45 pm I like the church, I believe in a lot of what it teaches and feel good about that. I enjoy listening to the various leaders through the ages and that the internet has made that easier then ever.
However I refuse to physically go to the church.
I don't belong, (speaking from a personality angle) it gives terrible anxiety to do so and I'd rather not be harassed for being a miserable single nearing 30 lol.
No thank you, I'll keep my Sunday's and read the scripture in my home vs going out in the horrid cold. I don't need depression every Sunday to get closer to God.
Hey, I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for, but there are mid-singles branches here and there. I know for a fact there is one somewhere in Illinois and positive there are some in California and probably Utah. They are for those aged 30-45. It might not be much better with your anxiety but it's possible you may not feel as judged as you may in a normal Ward.

eddie
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by eddie »

TrueIntent wrote: November 14th, 2017, 8:13 pm
eddie wrote: November 9th, 2017, 12:33 pm Wonderful post, thank you.

Question, when we read the words of people here questioning our leaders , are we affiliating with apostates? Sometimes I don't even want the words in my head, although I'm not impressionable, some are.
If you can't listen to the words of an "apostate" without fear of it influencing you.....then I could see bigger issues for you in the future. I choose to read out of good books, words that bring us closer to Christ, that are faith promoting. See i would actually encourage you to face the words of those things you fear directly. How do you expect to discern the words of a korihor....How? All through the Book of Mormon there are counterfeit Prophets and teachers, the Book of Mormon gives us examples such as Korihor to help us discern in our life at this time. see, those seeking to diceive you are the ones who will flatter you with their words.l.you won't see it coming. I choose to confront those things directly and take it to the scriptures.....we shouldn't be afraid of information.....how would you discern Christ if he came....the entire Jewish leadership claimed he was a blasphemer and a fraud. Only those who were willing to listen would scratch the surface of whether or not he was....we shouldn't be afraid of people and information, instead we should build ourselves up to be able to discern the information.

I don't worry whether or not the conversations I have are with someone who has diffenrt views or even carries the "label" of an apostate.....I worry about whether or not a person influences me and leads me to believe something contrary to scriptures.....follow the spirit, and study the scriptures...frame all your beliefs around the teachings of Jesus Christ....He should be our filter and lens. Remember, even Jesus Christ was labeled an "apostate"...and so was his apostles .it's just a label....discern the message, and u will find true messengers. ..there are prophets and false prophets....discern the message, don't adopt someone else's label for an individual. You may miss out on a true messenger.

Finrock
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by Finrock »

silk wrote: November 14th, 2017, 6:33 pm
Finrock wrote: November 14th, 2017, 1:59 pm If you are implying that God can't do His own work when you say there is only one person who holds those keys, I believe this idea to be in error. It seems from your post that you are denying that God has authority, that He has keys, and that He can lay His hands on people, seal them, and perform ordinances; that these can only be done by a single mortal and in only temporary structures build by mortal hands.

-Finrock
I don't think anyone is saying that God can't, just that He won't interfere without specific reason. After all, the world ended up in apostasy for hundreds of years, and He chose to let it happen. Why? I have no idea, but I trust in God and His plan.

We need to not only believe in God, we need to believe him. Do you believe him when he spoke in D&C 65?
2 The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until it has filled the whole earth.
I think it's apparent that He expects mankind to use the keys to the best of their ability to preach the gospel and do temple work for both the living and the dead.
First, God didn't choose to let the apostasy happen. How would God stop apostasy and still remain God? Man decided/chose to apostatize from God. God can't stop man from not choosing Him over something else, without ceasing to be God. The apostasy has nothing to do with God choosing to let it happen. I guarantee that God's arm was outstretched at all times to anyone who would take hold.

We really aren't talking about the same thing, I don't think. God doing His work, which is brining to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, is not God interfering. Because a master hires servants to help in doing his work, doesn't then mean that the master is no longer working, can't work, or won't work. The servants that are hired are delegated to help assist in the work, but salvation comes from Jesus Christ only. Man can't save other men. Man can't seal another man. Only the Holy Spirit of Promise seals us. Only God saves us and ratifies our absolutely minor and largely inconsistent efforts.

It is not apparent from that scripture that because God delegates keys that He has now finished His work and is no longer intimately and personally involved in His work. It just means that God delegated keys to man so they can assist in the work.

-Finrock

diligently seeking
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by diligently seeking »

Juliet wrote: November 14th, 2017, 8:46 pm Maybe the wheat struggles because it can sense evil but it can't see or identify the tares among them. Hold on folks, the church is true but the 2nd coming has not happened yet.
"The church is true" statement is disruptive to a person and their spiritual necessary ascendancy more often than not . This conviction more often than not served as a stumbling-stone anciently as it does similarly today... I would guess when it comes to understanding the how and the why and the what of living celestial law which as a result grants eternal life --- church membership comprehending of this is low. --- Read D&C 88 from verse 1 to somewhere around verse 24 and ask yourself does the church teach this? I sincerely with no sense of satisfaction at the negative result would encourage you to ask the question to the home teaching Temple attending church attending group of people in the church who take great satisfaction of knowing "the church is true" if they understand and have received the blessings of this clear Doctrine as outlined in 88 . Too often and correct me if I'm wrong "the church is true" statement leads people to not be independently converted to independently know holy writ ( the words of Jesus which would teach them all that they must do) like they should? Nephi even lamented towards the end of his writings that he was prohibited to say more because he saw a knew that people (you and me etc) wouldn't know and search out and understand true doctrine when it was spoken and written in plainness...

2 nephi 32


For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.
6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.
7 And now I, Nephi, cannot say more; the Spirit stoppeth mine utterance, and I am left to mourn because of the unbelief, and the wickedness, and the ignorance, and the stiffneckedness of men; for they will not search knowledge, nor understand great knowledge, when it is given unto them in plainness, even as plain as word can be.

eddie
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by eddie »

TrueIntent wrote: November 14th, 2017, 8:46 pm
drtanner wrote: November 14th, 2017, 8:30 pm Do you ever scratch your head after reading some of these responses and wonder how in the world people draw conclusions about the intented purpose of a post?

Maybe I need to be a better communicator or just spell things out a little clearer? A forum is great for many reasons but sometimes I wish I could have an old fashion face to face conversation.
Or maybe speak directly instead of passively. Like....is the comment above in reference to what or whom? Or why did you just make that comment.
Another head scratcher! 👀

Juliet
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by Juliet »

JaredBees wrote: November 15th, 2017, 10:59 am
Juliet wrote: November 14th, 2017, 8:46 pm Maybe the wheat struggles because it can sense evil but it can't see or identify the tares among them. Hold on folks, the church is true but the 2nd coming has not happened yet.
"The church is true" statement is disruptive to a person and their spiritual necessary ascendancy more often than not . This conviction more often than not served as a stumbling-stone anciently as it does similarly today... I would guess when it comes to understanding the how and the why and the what of living celestial law which as a result grants eternal life --- church membership comprehending of this is low. --- Read D&C 88 from verse 1 to somewhere around verse 24 and ask yourself does the church teach this? I sincerely with no sense of satisfaction at the negative result would encourage you to ask the question to the home teaching Temple attending church attending group of people in the church who take great satisfaction of knowing "the church is true" if they understand and have received the blessings of this clear Doctrine as outlined in 88 . Too often and correct me if I'm wrong "the church is true" statement leads people to not be independently converted to independently know holy writ ( the words of Jesus which would teach them all that they must do) like they should? Nephi even lamented towards the end of his writings that he was prohibited to say more because he saw a knew that people (you and me etc) wouldn't know and search out and understand true doctrine when it was spoken and written in plainness...

2 nephi 32


For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.
6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.
7 And now I, Nephi, cannot say more; the Spirit stoppeth mine utterance, and I am left to mourn because of the unbelief, and the wickedness, and the ignorance, and the stiffneckedness of men; for they will not search knowledge, nor understand great knowledge, when it is given unto them in plainness, even as plain as word can be.
Sure, I think that is a fair judgement. The church is true is a training wheels statement. I actually went through a crisis and I needed to know again if I had a testimony of the church. After researching, and yes, I did read all the anti mormon lit, I fell asleep. In my dream, I saw a building that went into heaven. Then I was given the words, "The high church of God." Just because the church has doctrine, doesn't mean people want it.

Church for many is a place where they feel differently, where the spirit can touch them and help them through day to day. For others, it gives them keys to unlocking mysteries. It really must be an individual process how and when we get into heaven, when the deeper doctrines become what we taste after, or the simple doctrines are all we can digest.

No matter how much doctrine we have thrown our way, it still is an individual process to receive it and knit it into our daily lives.

diligently seeking
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by diligently seeking »

This past fast and testimony Sunday much like many others--- a barrage of, I kid you not, 12 kids lined up to deliver the tried-and-true line "I know the church is true". Cute little things.

What we have through the resources of the restoration brought forth by Joseph Smith is amazing.

Being "knit" / yoked to Christ AS he manifests himself in the Church without a question of thinking IS beneficial. Juliet, lets have fun for second :) I'm going to throw out this wild hypothetical----- lets say you were stranded on a desert island with the amenities of food enough survival accoutrements ---like until you died--- :o. I tell you with great confidence --If all you had was prayer you would be able to thrive in the goodness of Jesus. If you had all the above-mentioned stuff plus the Book of Mormon. Wow... holy and sacred would that church be where Juliet offered up / consecrated her faith and soul to Jesus living on that there island. As you moved forward exceedingly great faith in that isolation Every Blessing mentioned in the Book of Mormon would be offered you eventually. You would learn much like Nephi and Alma and very many blessed people in the Book of Mormon that you were not alone that Angels would attend and be companions with you on sacred occasions. Yes, it's totally safe to say that your heart's desire to be administered to by Jesus similar to the brother of Jared would occur... leading up to this experience you will would have been born of God and filled with the fire and joy and great love that comes through receiving the Holy Ghost. The gifts of the Spirit through your steadfast prayer and Devotion to Jesus as you understand it through what you read in the Book of Mormon / personal revelation would aid you tremendously in your unfortunate yet fortunate circumstance of being alone on this island . The purity of your worship to Jesus Christ and his love and goodness in your life would cause you maybe at some point to say "wait a minute where is that church which is the byproduct of these blessings. Then you would rejoice with amazement and joy and probably say something like "hold on--- Jesus ---Jesus is my Lord my savior my my rock my sure Foundation and friend he is The Giver of this goodness of my pretty incredible ability to Joy in this interesting journey..."


That is and would be a saweet testimony of TRUTH gained! We all will have these sweet blessings in this life or on our island of isolation llike imagined up scenario Juliiet on her deserted island if we would be devoted and believing. Where Jesus is--- be it in our prayer closet or church or Juliet's Island or work and play etc where He is ----there his desired for blessings will be.


D&C 109:

Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing, and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God;
9 That your incomings may be in the name of the Lord, that your outgoings may be in the name of the Lord, that all your salutations may be in the name of the Lord, with uplifted hands unto the Most High

https://youtu.be/bbh43MGoigw

https://youtu.be/nQWFzMvCfLE

I got to figure out a good little jingle to Gilligan's / Juliet's Island now.

: )

And yes you are welcome for the sufficient amount food and survival gear at your disposal for you! ;)


Had to put this cool quote in as well. I think it applies nicely...

Thomas Griffith, an editor for Time magazine some years ago, wrote of our era: “We are so caught up in the complexity and clamor of our way of life that we do not realize how much all of these powerful efforts to attract or divert us are a tax on our spirit: they do a double harm, in the triviality of what they offer and the fatigue which they engender, that keeps us from doing something more profitable with our time. Even to screen out that portion of our culture that we do not want becomes an effort of will. Simplicity of life is no longer ours to begin with, as it was in the days of remote farms, and of school lessons written on the back of a shovel. In a world of congestion, shattering noise and an infinity of seductions, we must, in the midst of a carnival, find and insist upon our own decent simplicity” (The Waist-High Culture [1959], 188).

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topcat
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by topcat »

I just discovered an interesting dialogue on tithing:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=28207&hilit=tithing+surplus

It's a very long thread, but enlightening in many ways, esp during this time of tithing settlement. That thread is connected to this thread in many ways.

About this post, one question I have is: why is it important to gain a testimony of the current LDS Church? Is our salvation in jeopardy without such a testimony? Or is our salvation safe with a faith in Christ?

And why set today's church apart from previous eras of the modern LDS Church, meaning from Joseph's day to the present (or "current" Church)? Was the "previous (non current) Church" true and not the current one?

Main thing though is, Is there a vital importance to gaining a testimony of the current Church?

To help me even understand my question, could you help me define what "current Church" means. Do you mean the Brethren? Or DrTanner, do mean something else?

If you mean the Brethren, then the real point you're making becomes, How to gain a testimony of the current Brethren. Is this correct?

If that is the question, and we are studying it out in our minds (per DC 8 and DC 9), then does that mean we should look at evidence that the Brethren are "true"? And if so, what evidence is there to make the case that they are true?

Just thinking out loud here. Thank you.

Topcat

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AI2.0
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by AI2.0 »

drtanner wrote: November 14th, 2017, 8:30 pm Do you ever scratch your head after reading some of these responses and wonder how in the world people draw conclusions about the intented purpose of a post?

Maybe I need to be a better communicator or just spell things out a little clearer? A forum is great for many reasons but sometimes I wish I could have an old fashion face to face conversation.

The forum is populated by a number of people who lack inspiration and are confused and even struggling with personal apostasy and this is often apparent in their comments (Before anyone on the thread get's their dander up, I was not referring to any particular posts on THIS thread--I'm speaking of a general observation after years of participation here) I don't think there is any problem with your ability to communicate, but if we were all face to face, we'd definitely be able to better communicate. I also find that some people are very literal and miss nuance--others tend to pick apart OPs to find something they can disagree with.

drtanner
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by drtanner »

topcat wrote: November 17th, 2017, 11:26 am I just discovered an interesting dialogue on tithing:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=28207&hilit=tithing+surplus

It's a very long thread, but enlightening in many ways, esp during this time of tithing settlement. That thread is connected to this thread in many ways.

About this post, one question I have is: why is it important to gain a testimony of the current LDS Church? Is our salvation in jeopardy without such a testimony? Or is our salvation safe with a faith in Christ? Our salvation is in jeapardy without real faith in Christ, sincere repentance, and ordinances done without proper authority (which is why it is important to gain a testimony that the authority can be found in the current church and did not cease with the church in Jospeh’s time)

And why set today's church apart from previous eras of the modern LDS Church, meaning from Joseph's day to the present (or "current" Church)? Was the "previous (non current) Church" true and not the current one? The only reason to make a distinction is to address those who claim that the current church is in apostasy

Main thing though is, Is there a vital importance to gaining a testimony of the current Church? yes

To help me even understand my question, could you help me define what "current Church" means. Do you mean the Brethren? Or DrTanner, do mean something else?

If you mean the Brethren, then the real point you're making becomes, How to gain a testimony of the current Brethren. Is this correct? no I mean church, it is not the church of the brethren, it is the church of Jesus Christ

If that is the question, and we are studying it out in our minds (per DC 8 and DC 9), then does that mean we should look at evidence that the Brethren are "true"? And if so, what evidence is there to make the case that they are true?

Just thinking out loud here. Thank you.

Topcat

brianj
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by brianj »

drtanner wrote: November 18th, 2017, 8:13 am
topcat wrote: November 17th, 2017, 11:26 am If you mean the Brethren, then the real point you're making becomes, How to gain a testimony of the current Brethren. Is this correct? no I mean church, it is not the church of the brethren, it is the church of Jesus Christ
I feel a desire to add that if one has a testimony of Jesus Christ, of the Book of Mormon, and that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints really is the church of Jesus Christ and that He is at the head, then we will be able to accept that leaders, from organizations within our ward to the First Presidency, have been called by God and are accountable to Him for their actions in their callings.

drtanner
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by drtanner »

Another great reason to find out if the current church is true.
3 Nephi 28:34 And wo be unto him that will not hearken unto the words of Jesus, and also to them whom he hath chosen and sent among them; for whoso receiveth not the words of Jesus and the words of those whom he hath sent receiveth not him; and therefore he will not receive them at the last day;

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topcat
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by topcat »

Thank you for your responses.

This may be a stupid request, but I was challenged by a fellow friend at church to show him a quote where one of the current apostles testified that HE was a prophet, seer, and revelator. I figured that was easy enough, but so far I've only been able to find quotes where a given apostle testifies that OTHERS of his body are prophets, seers, and revelators. I can't find an example where one SELF proclaims, referring solely to himself.

I've reviewed several General Conferences looking for one man (one apostle) proclaiming HE is such, but haven't had any luck yet. But I know such a testimony is out there. I just want to show my friend the quotes are there. Can somebody help me, by sharing the link where an apostle says "I" am a prophet, seer, and revelator?

BackBlast
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by BackBlast »

drtanner wrote: November 9th, 2017, 11:58 am But there is a way to gain a testimony of the current church....
I like your method. I would add to it that it is in the current LDS Church that I have had the best associations or people in my life. There are plenty of tares to go around at the wards and stakes, with pride among some. But having worked at the Church (with all it's warts :), I was among professionals who were all temple worthy and generally striving to live how they should. I've never felt that level of trust and brotherhood among any other group. When you really look at the creme of the various wards and stakes, the people really are amazing. Good fruits...

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icarus
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by icarus »

I have enjoyed this thread and thank everyone.

I have been contemplating similar thoughts of the OP and have been wondering what everyone means by "church" or even D&C 1.

In my mind what I have thought has considered the legal entity, the organization or leadership and also the members (top to bottom) and I have come to favor the meaning as members.

There are of course nuances such as "I'm going to church" which IS the building imo. If we say, "The church does or does not approve of something", then is that not the hierarchy? And what about referencing the church in a particular town? Is that the building or the congregation?

The concept of "church" in the New Testament, to me, refers to the congregations, or the people.

When we talk about authority though it's the leadership as I'm seeing it.

So lately when I hear, "the church is true" I wonder what is really being said. To me it's kinda like someone on Noah's Arc saying I know the Arc is true.... (good ship Zion). More can be said but that's the gist of my thoughts.

drtanner
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by drtanner »

icarus wrote: December 6th, 2017, 5:48 pm I have enjoyed this thread and thank everyone.

I have been contemplating similar thoughts of the OP and have been wondering what everyone means by "church" or even D&C 1.

In my mind what I have thought has considered the legal entity, the organization or leadership and also the members (top to bottom) and I have come to favor the meaning as members.

There are of course nuances such as "I'm going to church" which IS the building imo. If we say, "The church does or does not approve of something", then is that not the hierarchy? And what about referencing the church in a particular town? Is that the building or the congregation?

The concept of "church" in the New Testament, to me, refers to the congregations, or the people.

When we talk about authority though it's the leadership as I'm seeing it.

So lately when I hear, "the church is true" I wonder what is really being said. To me it's kinda like someone on Noah's Arc saying I know the Arc is true.... (good ship Zion). More can be said but that's the gist of my thoughts.
“The rise of the Church of Christ in these last days, being one thousand eight hundred and thirty years since the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh, it being regularly organized and established agreeable to the laws of our country, by the will and commandments of God, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called April.”

The Prophet further records: “We now proceeded to call out and ordain some others of the brethren to different offices of the Priesthood according as the Spirit manifested unto us: and after a happy time spent in witnessing and feeling for ourselves the powers and blessings of the Holy Ghost, through the grace of God bestowed upon us, we dismissed with the pleasing knowledge that we were now individually members of, and acknowledged of God, ‘The Church of Jesus Christ,’ organized in accordance with commandments and revelations given by Him to ourselves in these last days, as well as according to the order of the Church as recorded in the New Testament.” (DHC 1:79.)

The church = the organization authorized by God to confer his priesthood and with that authority administer ordinances of salvation.

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icarus
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by icarus »

drtanner wrote: December 6th, 2017, 9:29 pm The church = the organization authorized by God to confer his priesthood and with that authority administer ordinances of salvation.
Sooo,... the hierarchy who hold the keys or the priesthood in general?

drtanner
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Re: How to gain a testimony of the current lds church

Post by drtanner »

icarus wrote: December 6th, 2017, 9:48 pm
drtanner wrote: December 6th, 2017, 9:29 pm The church = the organization authorized by God to confer his priesthood and with that authority administer ordinances of salvation.
Sooo,... the hierarchy who hold the keys or the priesthood in general?
What is your definition of the priesthood in general?

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