Green Tea: Your thoughts?

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braingrunt
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by braingrunt »

Part of me says the 'why' of the word of wisdom doesn't matter. Just do it. Forget the health benefits you may be missing from wine/green tea. Those benefits are none of my business, they're God's business as soon as he told me what to do. Similarly, the "deleterious ingredients" are none of my business; apparently God has done the figuring out, which ought to be good enough; and though human wisdom may approximate or even nail the right answer, we can't rely on the arm of flesh to declare "this coffee is now safe" or "this tea is now safe" no matter what we remove from it.

It's kinda like with sexuality, modern society has decided how to make it 'safe' and built up its own doctrines about sexuality. And maybe they get some benefit from their practices. But no matter what society says or does in relation to sexuality, you trust god instead.

As the temple says "what do you think of the world's teaching, Adam"? (paraphrase) Well nothing. It doesn't say he analyzed the teaching for flaws. Adam simply said, (again a paraphrase) "I'm waiting to hear what God has to say instead."

Of course the other part of me, being addicted to discussion--as evidenced by my slow but steady presence on LDSFF--wants to study everything out and know the "why". I think this is good as long as you don't get too attached to your conclusions; and in fact, lack of desire to understand implies lack of spirit or closeness to God. If you study the reasons and begin to act on them, the original command can become a starting point for further blessings and understanding.

Well clearly the WOW is far from a complete health code or pharmacopoeia. And reasonable extrapolations of the "why" will lead to further restrictions; and some of them have been confirmed by church leadership. IMO these become legal amendments to WOW and should be part of the line we don't allow science or opinion to move; and which we hold out as expectations to those we can influence. But we can go well beyond this unmoving line, and very reasonably restrict DR Pepper or whatnot in our personal lives, possibly even encourage others to do the same. But though I may be right about Dr Pepper, and some people might be willfully darkening their minds about it (which will damning in some small way, but you know we all do this in some areas of our lives) I can't demand anyone live the "gospel according to braingrunt" or any other gospel for that matter; and we have to allow God to choose which areas of peoples lives he convicts them to work on. God very well may have no interest in getting Dr Pepper out of someones life right now, because he wants them to focus on something else instead; and for goodness sake I have to repress my desire to freak out about it.

Just share, maybe debate a little, then let it go for a while; and make sure there are continually enough positives in your interactions so that the person you debated with can not be bitter about it.

minorityofone
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by minorityofone »

Ask God and see what He says.

You may be surprised what the Spirit tells you. Especially with what is recorded in "official canonized scripture" (whatever that means).
I'm pretty sure it was not given by way of commandment. I think brigham young started adding to the scriptures if my recollection of history serves right so if you believe everything he said and did was correct (or any other man) than you can take their words for it, or you can go to the Source of Truth and learn for yourself. Good luck and God bless.

davedan
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by davedan »

I know not save the Lord commanded me.

You want antioxidants? Eat a piece of fruit. According to ORAC database, any piece of fruit beats tea and coffee x 10. The issue with tea and coffee may come down to what you are not eating instead.

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Desert Roses
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Desert Roses »

caddis wrote:
InfoWarrior82 wrote:It's really about the tanic acids in tea and coffee. I'm not sure if that's included in green tea. Herbal teas are OK... so we just have to find out if green tea is considered an herbal tea.
I hear this a lot. Source?
Herbal "teas"aren't tea at all. Tea is a particular plant; all herbal infusions have garnered the name from the longstanding practice of infusing tea leaves with hot water. Many medicinal plants are infused the same way, leading to being categorized as teas. Taken too hot, these also aren't good, but warm or cold, there's a lot of proven benefits to many plant infusions.

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LucianAMD
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by LucianAMD »

EmmaLee wrote:Yes, green tea and black tea both have tannin. Bad stuff. Far worse than caffeine, IMO, since tannin is a natural pesticide. Herbal teas do not contain tannin. Green tea is not considered an herbal tea.
I've always heard this and until recently assumed it must be true. But as I've gotten more into herbalism I've come to find that the good majority of plants and herbs we use have tannins in them. And some to very high degrees. If tannins were the reason we do not consume tea and coffee then here are some other things you should not consume, as they have fairly decent amounts of tannins: Strawberries, blueberries, nuts, beans, and most things herbel teas are made out of. Add them to your list.

Matchmaker
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Matchmaker »

I worked in the food business for a few years, and we lived by the statement, "If in doubt, throw it out." That's what I do with products that have green tea in them, in any form.

Two of the reasons I do this is because green tea comes from the same tea leaf as black tea, it's just processed differently, and because my husband asked the Stake Presidency about it during his temple recommend interview last year and was counseled to give it up.

lgr3065
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by lgr3065 »

Teas are herbs. Not partaking of "tea"/coffee would be contrary to the herbs. As mentioned in above post, caffeine and tannin are in numerous foods (which are allowed in the WoW). Perhaps, it is really the temperature of the drink. Hot drinks can be harmful to the delicate tissues of the throat. The Church's recent PR release did not clarify the situation at all. To ban coffee/tea but to say sofa drinks (colas) are ok is contradictory at best.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Robin Hood »

In my view both green and black tea are contrary to our understanding of the word of wisdom.

If you want a pick me up, try peppermint tea.
Last edited by Robin Hood on February 18th, 2016, 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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creator
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by creator »

Joseph and Hyrum Smith both clarified that "hot drinks" in the Word of Wisdom meant tea and coffee. That's what I follow.

Herbal "tea" is fine. It's not actually "tea", we just call it that.

From personal experience I learned for myself why green/black tea is not so great. I drank some ice tea drinks for a short while and realized I had become addicted and had withdrawal headaches when not drinking it.

EmmaLee
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by EmmaLee »

LucianAMD wrote:
EmmaLee wrote:Yes, green tea and black tea both have tannin. Bad stuff. Far worse than caffeine, IMO, since tannin is a natural pesticide. Herbal teas do not contain tannin. Green tea is not considered an herbal tea.
I've always heard this and until recently assumed it must be true. But as I've gotten more into herbalism I've come to find that the good majority of plants and herbs we use have tannins in them. And some to very high degrees. If tannins were the reason we do not consume tea and coffee then here are some other things you should not consume, as they have fairly decent amounts of tannins: Strawberries, blueberries, nuts, beans, and most things herbel teas are made out of. Add them to your list.
Dang, going back FOUR YEARS ago with that comment of mine that you quoted, Lucian. My thoughts/information/knowledge has changed on a LOT of things since 2012. Yours probably has, too.

UlyssesJWilliamss
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by UlyssesJWilliamss »

Everyone has a different hobby, and I have some, one of them listing song with a cup of tea. Recently I have checked up my diabetics, and the result is negative. So my friend who is a doctor suggested me to have green tea every day. He gave me this link http://bestproducts-4u.com/best-green-tea-brands/. He thinks "Numi organic jasmine green tea" one of the best, he has taken and I think so. Still, I am on it, and I am feeling good, and I think that this will be better for anyone at any age, not only for a diabetics patient. I also give this to my son who is an age of two. So I think green tea is the best drink of the world. :roll: :evil:

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Thinker
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Thinker »

The word of wisdom needs to be approached and applied with wisdom - from studying it out etc. It is obvious that green tea is healthier than dr. pepper - and has less caffeine too! And from what I've read and based on experience - I feel better after drinking green tea than I do drinking things like Dr. Pepper.

Joseph Smith gave some inspired advise - especially about not smoking - but I think he missed it in restricting "hot drinks." If many people in developing countries avoided hot drinks - many would have been sick or dead from drinks that were not boiled.

Again, use wisdom in everything - and I'm reminded also of the need to not be commanded in all things - to study it out and learn.

BTW - Maybe sugar is something to watch out for more than plant-based drinks.

Michelle
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Michelle »

True tea is actually a specific plant that can be prepared in various ways including black, green , oolong, sun tea, etc. All of these would fall under the restrictions of the Word of Wisdom.
Tea is an aromatic beverage commonly prepared by pouring hot or boiling water over cured leaves of the Camellia sinensis, an evergreen shrub native to Asia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea
"Herbal teas" are other plants that may be prepared in the same manner as tea. These are not under the same restriction. For example, you may have an "herbal tea" made of herbs or fruit, for example. It is good to keep in mind that we are also directed in the Word of Wisdom to consume herbs for our health. When I was considering this topic many years ago I realized that even when we flavor a soup with herbs like basil, oregano, thyme, etc. we are essentially making a herbal tea (with other items as well.)

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LdsMarco
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by LdsMarco »

Just because a doctor said it was okay doesn't mean God agrees. All you have to do is cut your carb/sugar intake and exercise. Please don't use excuses to drink green tea. Especially to lose weight. Most of my patients who have kidney disease are the ones who drink tea and coffee. Go figure

OCDMOM
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by OCDMOM »

Green tea is an herbal tea. The hot drink restrictions are all about caffeine. I know a lot of very faithful Mormons that drink herbal teas. Nobody complains about hot chocolate. The word of wisdom talks about using herbs,

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mirkwood
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by mirkwood »

OCDMOM wrote: November 28th, 2017, 7:52 pm Green tea is an herbal tea.
No it isn't. Green tea is made from the same tea leaf as black tea. This makes it against the WOW.
The hot drink restrictions are all about caffeine.
No it isn't. It is about coffee and tea.

I know a lot of very faithful Mormons that drink herbal teas. Nobody complains about hot chocolate.
That's because neither of them violate the WOW.

Silver
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Silver »

OCDMOM wrote: November 28th, 2017, 7:52 pm Green tea is an herbal tea. The hot drink restrictions are all about caffeine. I know a lot of very faithful Mormons that drink herbal teas. Nobody complains about hot chocolate. The word of wisdom talks about using herbs,
I lived in Japan for 8 years, 2 of them as a missionary teaching/begging investigators and new members to stop drinking green tea. Later, as an active member of a ward in Tokyo, I heard it rehearsed over and over again that green tea, and some others, which the Japanese consume in great quantities, are violations of the WoW.

Many people claim that green tea has a multitude of healthy benefits such as cancer prevention. That's great. However, faithful Mormons still shouldn't drink it.

Green tea comes from "cha no happa" in the Japanese. That is the "leaf of a tea plant." It's not an herb.

Silver
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Silver »

Thinker wrote: November 28th, 2017, 12:44 pm The word of wisdom needs to be approached and applied with wisdom - from studying it out etc. It is obvious that green tea is healthier than dr. pepper - and has less caffeine too! And from what I've read and based on experience - I feel better after drinking green tea than I do drinking things like Dr. Pepper.

Joseph Smith gave some inspired advise - especially about not smoking - but I think he missed it in restricting "hot drinks." If many people in developing countries avoided hot drinks - many would have been sick or dead from drinks that were not boiled.

Again, use wisdom in everything - and I'm reminded also of the need to not be commanded in all things - to study it out and learn.

BTW - Maybe sugar is something to watch out for more than plant-based drinks.
The highlighted section is blatantly and logically wrong. There is no danger in boiling water and then allowing it to cool prior to consumption.

Your body may feel better after drinking green tea. You've probably told yourself that anyway. However, it is a clear violation of the WoW.

JohnnyL
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by JohnnyL »

Thinker wrote: November 28th, 2017, 12:44 pm The word of wisdom needs to be approached and applied with wisdom - from studying it out etc. It is obvious that green tea is healthier than dr. pepper - and has less caffeine too! And from what I've read and based on experience - I feel better after drinking green tea than I do drinking things like Dr. Pepper.

Joseph Smith gave some inspired advise - especially about not smoking - but I think he missed it in restricting "hot drinks." If many people in developing countries avoided hot drinks - many would have been sick or dead from drinks that were not boiled.

Again, use wisdom in everything - and I'm reminded also of the need to not be commanded in all things - to study it out and learn.

BTW - Maybe sugar is something to watch out for more than plant-based drinks.
The commandment is simple. The principle is up to you and how many extra blessings you want. ;)

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oneClimbs
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by oneClimbs »

Something to point out here. Note that in the Word of Wisdom, the items that are said to be not for the belly are all plants or plant products. Tobacco comes from a specific plant, as does coffee and tea. I think these are each example of the larger principle that some things are "not good for the belly" but have other uses that are good. I don't think that God meant, "Just avoid this short list of things and you'll be totally healthy and never get sick." God doesn't give us complete lists of things, he teaches us principles and often provides some examples.

Here is some wisdom from Elder Packer:
The “Word of Wisdom [was] given for a principle with promise” (D&C 89:1, 3). But what is the promise? The promise, of course, is personal revelation…Now, the Word of Wisdom is, I think, only incidentally to keep us healthy, if we will observe it. But that matter of physical health is a losing battle. You know, no matter what you do to take care of your body, in due course, it begins to weaken! We are not going to live forever in this life…The point is, if you want to move on spiritually and do as you ought to do in this life, the principle outlined in the Word of Wisdom shows you the requirements. ... It is not that you are going to be a healthy athlete all of your life, and it is not that you are going to avoid old age. It is that you will have the key to revelation. (Boyd K. Packer, The Instrument of Your Mind and the Foundation of Your Character)
Every time the Word of Wisdom comes up people always ask the question about health and I think they are missing the point. If the WofW is only incidentally about health and primarily about revelation, I think that our questions should be related to what it could be about certain plants or things we ingest that could have an impact on our spirituality and how. Something may indeed be perfectly healthy for you but not for your belly for other reasons known only to the great architect of all biology and spirituality.

Juliet
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Juliet »

Shouldn't anything made by cunning men in the last days be against the word of wisdom? That would include gmo corn, soy... Just find me one processed food that doesn't have soy bean oil made from genetically modified soy beans. There are now gmo sliced apples that don't go brown. These things have viruses injected into them to add DNA sequences so as to rip open the intestines of the bugs that eat them. I don't think they are safe for consumption and even produce is not exempt anymore. In fact one generation of rats eating gmos were not able to reproduce.
At this point if we are not providing our own food then we are being harmed by the chemicals in the foods we eat. It isn't always possible to afford or be completely self reliant, so I have to rely on the atonement to make up the difference because I have to feed my family. But some day we are going to be self sufficient.

Michelle
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Michelle »

5tev3 wrote: November 29th, 2017, 10:19 am Something to point out here. Note that in the Word of Wisdom, the items that are said to be not for the belly are all plants or plant products. Tobacco comes from a specific plant, as does coffee and tea. I think these are each example of the larger principle that some things are "not good for the belly" but have other uses that are good. I don't think that God meant, "Just avoid this short list of things and you'll be totally healthy and never get sick." God doesn't give us complete lists of things, he teaches us principles and often provides some examples.

Here is some wisdom from Elder Packer:
The “Word of Wisdom [was] given for a principle with promise” (D&C 89:1, 3). But what is the promise? The promise, of course, is personal revelation…Now, the Word of Wisdom is, I think, only incidentally to keep us healthy, if we will observe it. But that matter of physical health is a losing battle. You know, no matter what you do to take care of your body, in due course, it begins to weaken! We are not going to live forever in this life…The point is, if you want to move on spiritually and do as you ought to do in this life, the principle outlined in the Word of Wisdom shows you the requirements. ... It is not that you are going to be a healthy athlete all of your life, and it is not that you are going to avoid old age. It is that you will have the key to revelation. (Boyd K. Packer, The Instrument of Your Mind and the Foundation of Your Character)
Every time the Word of Wisdom comes up people always ask the question about health and I think they are missing the point. If the WofW is only incidentally about health and primarily about revelation, I think that our questions should be related to what it could be about certain plants or things we ingest that could have an impact on our spirituality and how. Something may indeed be perfectly healthy for you but not for your belly for other reasons known only to the great architect of all biology and spirituality.
AMEN and AMEN!

Most people know about Daniel and his friends refusing the king's meat and being healthier than the others, but there are other accounts in the Book of Daniel as well where he eats healthier specifically to receive clearer understanding of revelation. (See Daniel 10, the revelations he wants to understand are in the preceeding chapters.).

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oneClimbs
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by oneClimbs »

Juliet wrote: November 29th, 2017, 10:29 am Shouldn't anything made by cunning men in the last days be against the word of wisdom? That would include gmo corn, soy... Just find me one processed food that doesn't have soy bean oil made from genetically modified soy beans. There are now gmo sliced apples that don't go brown. These things have viruses injected into them to add DNA sequences so as to rip open the intestines of the bugs that eat them. I don't think they are safe for consumption and even produce is not exempt anymore. In fact one generation of rats eating gmos were not able to reproduce.
At this point if we are not providing our own food then we are being harmed by the chemicals in the foods we eat. It isn't always possible to afford or be completely self reliant, so I have to rely on the atonement to make up the difference because I have to feed my family. But some day we are going to be self sufficient.
You're on the right track. People talk about things being for or against the Word of Wisdom and that is one way to put it. But remember that the revelation says that it is a PRINCIPLE with a promise not a law. A law has a defined definition, a clear set of instructions. Let's focus on the word principle for a moment. I think Elder Bednar has the best definition:

"A gospel principle is a doctrinally based guideline for the righteous exercise of moral agency. Principles are subsets or components of broader gospel truths. Principles provide direction. Correct principles always are based upon and arise from doctrines, do not change, and answer the question of “what?” Many principles can grow out of and be associated with a single doctrine . . . A principle is not a behavior or a specific action. Rather, principles provide basic guidelines for behavior and action. (Increase in Learning, pp. 154–155)

Now return to D&C 89 with that as your foundation. You will discover that the examples given help us understand the principles concerning the will of God concerning in the matter of what we consume and how we use the resources around us. Many tend to treat D&C 89 as a law but that would mean that so long as you do exactly what that law says then you are in keeping with God's will. A principle, on the other hand, is broader and can apply to more things, which D&C 89 does. Too much sugar is not for the belly, toxic food products are not for the belly, there are many things that if you see they are not for the belly, then you should avoid them like you would alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea, and use them in a beneficial manner where one exists and is known.

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gkearney
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by gkearney »

In South Africa the social drink of choice is Rooibos Tea. This is not for the tea tree plant and does not contain caffeine. It is common in South Africa to have Rooibos Tea at LDS Church function and in the home of members. So not everything that is called tea is a violation fo the word of wisdom.



Silver wrote: November 28th, 2017, 9:32 pm
OCDMOM wrote: November 28th, 2017, 7:52 pm Green tea is an herbal tea. The hot drink restrictions are all about caffeine. I know a lot of very faithful Mormons that drink herbal teas. Nobody complains about hot chocolate. The word of wisdom talks about using herbs,
I lived in Japan for 8 years, 2 of them as a missionary teaching/begging investigators and new members to stop drinking green tea. Later, as an active member of a ward in Tokyo, I heard it rehearsed over and over again that green tea, and some others, which the Japanese consume in great quantities, are violations of the WoW.

Many people claim that green tea has a multitude of healthy benefits such as cancer prevention. That's great. However, faithful Mormons still shouldn't drink it.

Green tea comes from "cha no happa" in the Japanese. That is the "leaf of a tea plant." It's not an herb.
Last edited by gkearney on November 29th, 2017, 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Silver
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Re: Green Tea: Your thoughts?

Post by Silver »

gkearney wrote: November 29th, 2017, 1:21 pm In South Africa the social drink of choice is Rooibos Tea. This is not for the tea tree plant and does not contain caffeine. It is common in South Africa to have Rooibos Tea at LDS Church function and in the home of members. So not everything that is called tea is a violation fo the word of wisdom.

Greg



Silver wrote: November 28th, 2017, 9:32 pm
OCDMOM wrote: November 28th, 2017, 7:52 pm Green tea is an herbal tea. The hot drink restrictions are all about caffeine. I know a lot of very faithful Mormons that drink herbal teas. Nobody complains about hot chocolate. The word of wisdom talks about using herbs,
I lived in Japan for 8 years, 2 of them as a missionary teaching/begging investigators and new members to stop drinking green tea. Later, as an active member of a ward in Tokyo, I heard it rehearsed over and over again that green tea, and some others, which the Japanese consume in great quantities, are violations of the WoW.

Many people claim that green tea has a multitude of healthy benefits such as cancer prevention. That's great. However, faithful Mormons still shouldn't drink it.

Green tea comes from "cha no happa" in the Japanese. That is the "leaf of a tea plant." It's not an herb.
If my comments were not clear, I apologize. I was referring to green tea and others that come from the tea plant. In Japan, and now in America, I enjoy "mugi cha," a barley tea.

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