LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

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TrueIntent
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LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

The church is changing it's stance on Homosexuals in the church very quickly (and I support this). I have noticed, that when the church is attempting to change cultural messages, they will push the new agenda on LDSliving (a publication owned by the church). We used to teach that members "choose" to be gay...that no one is born gay. On the mormonsandgays.org site, one of the apostles acknowledges that "we don't know".....this article posted, also acknowledges the church is, softening it's stance......I'm just going to quote from the article, the link attached, "see more".....I am posting this to bring exposure to more members...we need to be less judgmental...especially at church. Church should be a place where we are not condemning others, but loving them (can you imagine how difficult it would be to exist in an LDS community, as this young woman is doing). Here is from the article...

I came here to BYU and things got a little harder to explain to myself. I was old enough to date now, so why did I still have no interest in boys at all? I then had my first experience in which I recognized that it wasn't just admiration; I was having feelings for a girl. I became quite angry with myself. I still believed that I wasn't born gay and I was certain these feelings were my fault. I thought it was my responsibility to stop having those thoughts and I wouldn't qualify for Heavenly Father's help until I did. So, I did everything I knew how to do: I prayed more, I read my scriptures more, I listened to conference talks every morning, I tried to be the picture of righteousness. But I wasn't perfect and every time I could sense the feelings creeping back in I blamed it on the day I didn't write in my gratitude journal or the night I prayed in my bed instead of kneeling down. When I finally allowed myself - at age 22 - to consider that maybe I had no choice in the matter, it felt like a whole new world opened. Everything started to make sense. For the first time in my life, I was beginning to understand myself. I was the same person, there was just more of me than I realized. God didn't hate me, I wasn't a monster, I was just gay.
I regret all the shame I used to feel. I'm proud of who I am. Knowing that I am a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing. I know it might not make sense to some people but I firmly believe that my Heavenly Father made me to be gay and He wants me to know who I am. When I think about it that way, I can't be ashamed."


The article is really good....it acknowledges that people who live within the BYU/church community, speak freely about their judgements, and have no idea that there are members who are gay, dwelling among them who are suffering internally because of all the judgements casts.

Here is the link...http://www.ldsliving.com/Lesbian-Mormon ... ce/s/86575

I also believe that the church is currently teaching gay members to live a celibate lifestyle...that they will have to backtrack on that. This is an extreme teaching, and we shouldn't expect others to live a lifestyle that leadership and priesthood holders would struggle to live themselves (this is my personal opinion).

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oneClimbs
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

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Anyone has the choice to marry someone of the oppsite gender. We don’t obey the gospel because it is convenient or matches our desires. Quite the opposite. The gospel requires sacrifice and rising above whatever place you may find yourself.

It is true that God is the author of weakness (Ether 12:27) which he gave to us so that we can be humble and turn to him. For some just being married period is a lifelong challenge. As we age our bodies change and become old and wrinkled. Attraction dwindles, but marriage isn’t about attraction, it has a purpose, a purpose that is rooted in what it means to become one.

Let me share a some thoughts that I believe illustrate related principles. I grew up in Texas and Barbecue was a strong cultural thing. I was raised eating a ton of meat. People that didn’t eat meat were ridiculed; I never knew a vegetarian. I never had any issue with eating meat and certainly no desire to change. I referred to myself as a carnivore.

While serving a mission I had a rather eye-opening experience during a time when I was particularly close to the Lord. I wrote about that experience in detail on my blog. I questioned our cavelier attitude on taking animal life, but didn’t change. It wasn’t until a few years later and feeling like I didn’t know what to do eat healthy that I turned to D&C 89 and studied it in depth for about 6 months along with everything I could find about health, plants and animal life from scripture and church leaders. I researched all the dietary laws from Eden to Noah, Moses, Paul, and the Restoration.

Soon, I saw things in a new light. I chose to experiment on what I know saw and not eat animal flesh unless I needed it, following the principles of all the collected information I found. That was back in 2011 and I haven’t needed to eat a steak or brisket since. I lost 40 lbs and have built muscle all on a plant-based diet. I rarely get sick and I am thriving. I live in Texas where there is still a heavy use of Barbecue.

Now here’s the thing. I love the taste of meat, especially brisket. I love the smell of it and all that jazz. If you gave me some and I ate it, I would enjoy the taste. But I don’t eat it. I have every opportunity to, even when no one is watching. I could eat and no one would say anything, my life might be eaiser if I did. But I would not be living true to what I understand concerning the doctrine. Even though everything in my nature says, “Go forth and enjoy that, it is a part of your culture and upbringing. You clearly have an innate attraction and desire for it so live true to that.”

But I have a choice and choice trumps feeling, it trumps nature, it trumps all. When we have the path and the rod before us we can choose to accept it and go forward or we can follow our own path that leads who knows where.

A person with same sex feelings can study the doctrine, understand the doctrine and choose to become one flesh with a spouse in marriage. Celibacy is not God’s way. Yes, they can do this. Sacrifice, obedience, trust, the consistent pattern of man cleaving to his wife and becoming one flesh. These do not disappear because a few feel differently.

Teaching doctrine isn’t judging people. We cannot do people the disservice of hiding the path because it may be too hard for some. We do not serve people by telling them to not lay their sacrifice upon the altar.

I have an aunt who lived the homosexual lifestyle fully. She wrestled with it and suffered much but she has learned the doctrine and rejected it choosing instead to align her life as close as possible with God’s patterns. She has an active temple recommend and is at peace. So what I am saying is possible, she is not an exception. The problem is that few care or understand what the doctrine is, especially the world.

These brothers and sisters of ours need sensitivity and understanding but they also need the doctrine and the hope that comes from knowing that celibacy and apostasy are not their only choices.

“For he is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.” 1 Nephi 10:18

“And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” Matt 19:4-6

“Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 11:11

I’ve talked with many supporters of homosexual lifestyles and I ask the same question: “Let’s hear the doctrinal arguement.”

There is absolutely no doctrinal argument for people of the same gender to discard God’s patterns and engage in acts that only simulate procreation. Teach correct principles so people can choose how to correctly govern themselves.
Last edited by oneClimbs on October 8th, 2017, 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sunain
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Sunain »

The Plan and the Proclamation
By Elder Dallin H. Oaks Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
October 2017 General Conference

Converted Latter-day Saints believe that the family proclamation, issued nearly a quarter century ago and now translated into scores of languages, is the Lord’s reemphasis of the gospel truths we need to sustain us through current challenges to the family.

The family proclamation begins by declaring “that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.” It also affirms that “gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” It further declares “that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.”
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng
Gay members of the church must live a celibate lifestyle, otherwise they are living in sin, just like unmarried members must live a celibate lifestyle also. This doctrine will not backtrack and it is not an extreme teaching. It is part of the The Family A Proclamation to the World.
The Family A Proclamation to the World
Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity.
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true

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marc
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

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This is just one person's story. There are many. The triumphs and tragedies of others do not vindicate me. Only Jesus Christ can vindicate me. Only Jesus Christ can save me. Whatever trials any other fallen individual faces are his or hers to make. We try so hard to put everyone else in some kind of box that we forget our own fallen nature and the box that God has placed us in ourselves. I have enough trouble with my own fallen nature and the way God made me--working out my own salvation with fear and trembling--to worry about how God made anybody else. But I do have the power to love others regardless of how different from me they may be.

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inho
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

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from mormonandgay.org:
Many people pray for years and do all they can to be obedient in an effort to reduce same-sex attraction, yet find they are still attracted to the same sex. ... The intensity of your attractions may not be in your control
This is from an official church webpage. It acknowledges that being gay is not a choice. However, it does not say if God has made people gay or if being gay is just something that happens in this fallen world.

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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by drtanner »

“LDS Living Magazine is an independent work, and is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The views expressed in the magazine are the responsibility of the various authors and do not necessarily represent the positions of the Church. Contributors include Church members and members of other faiths.”

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Sunain wrote: October 8th, 2017, 2:15 pm
The Plan and the Proclamation
By Elder Dallin H. Oaks Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
October 2017 General Conference

Converted Latter-day Saints believe that the family proclamation, issued nearly a quarter century ago and now translated into scores of languages, is the Lord’s reemphasis of the gospel truths we need to sustain us through current challenges to the family.

The family proclamation begins by declaring “that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.” It also affirms that “gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.” It further declares “that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.”
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng
Gay members of the church must live a celibate lifestyle, otherwise they are living in sin, just like unmarried members must live a celibate lifestyle also. This doctrine will not backtrack and it is not an extreme teaching. It is part of the The Family A Proclamation to the World.
The Family A Proclamation to the World
Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity.
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-procl ... g&old=true
I didn't say they needed to get married. But i have also read scholarly papers written by gay men where there are errors in translation in the Bible. Just as Joseph Smith questioned the correct translation of the bible, I also have read a couple essays, and there are some compelling arguments. There are also near death experiences that homosexuals have had where they are there with their partner. I choose not to be too judgmental on the subject. We don't know what we may uncover in the future. How can I dismiss someone else's spiritual experiences beyond the veil, while expecting them to accept my own? If the church is a "living" institution, I'll let it grow without judging. That's my stance. This is not a debate for me. i don't need to find about who is right and who is wrong. That doesn't help others in this situation.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

drtanner wrote: October 8th, 2017, 2:35 pm “LDS Living Magazine is an independent work, and is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The views expressed in the magazine are the responsibility of the various authors and do not necessarily represent the positions of the Church. Contributors include Church members and members of other faiths.”
Yeah, but when LDS.org news room, or apostles speak...they publish articles and anything and everything that may or may not relate to current cultural LDS topics. Members rarely share conference talks...but they Facebook LDSliving summaries and articles frequently. ....All current news, goes through LDS living...and just as Deseret News is biased toward the church...so is LDSliving. All the articles are written in such a way to "appeal" to the membership. They are a publicity wing of the church...they reflect more of the cultural attitudes, and can even tell you more about the internal workings of the church than general conference will at times. You don't have to believe me....it's just what I have observed.

BTW, that quote you posted above, is what they post so they have deniability--everyone uses a phrase like that. It's a safety net, while also attempting to influence people. Do you think the church has no idea they posted this article??? Of course they do.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

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inho wrote: October 8th, 2017, 2:28 pm from mormonandgay.org:
Many people pray for years and do all they can to be obedient in an effort to reduce same-sex attraction, yet find they are still attracted to the same sex. ... The intensity of your attractions may not be in your control
This is from an official church webpage. It acknowledges that being gay is not a choice. However, it does not say if God has made people gay or if being gay is just something that happens in this fallen world.
maybe it doesn't say, because we don't know?....but my question would then be...aren't gay people entitled to receive revelation from God about that on the subject?? What does God say to them?

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oneClimbs
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by oneClimbs »

inho wrote: October 8th, 2017, 2:28 pm from mormonandgay.org:
Many people pray for years and do all they can to be obedient in an effort to reduce same-sex attraction, yet find they are still attracted to the same sex. ... The intensity of your attractions may not be in your control
This is from an official church webpage. It acknowledges that being gay is not a choice. However, it does not say if God has made people gay or if being gay is just something that happens in this fallen world.
We may not be able to control or change attractions, but we can control or change our choices. There is nothing natural about what the gospel requires; monogamy, patience, forgiveness, chastity, consecration, sacrifice, etc. This is the point many miss and miss the mark. It doesn’t matter what you are right now or how you got that way. What matters is what you choose to do.

Who said it would be easy or feel perfectly natural? I submit the scriptures are quite clear that the path is strait and narrow, it is hard and requires sacrifice. What is easy for one may seem impossible for another but that does not alter the path, it is we who need altering. To damn people by telling them to stay they way they are and to not partake of God’s blessings of marriage and parenthood according to his patterns is not love, it is evil and cruel.

It’s like telling a guy to keep on fornicating because that’s what he loves to do and postpone baptism for this life. If temple marriage is key to exaltation than why not encourage people to sacrifice anything to achieve it like we do with baptism?

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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

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TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 1:40 pm The church is changing it's stance on Homosexuals in the church very quickly (and I support this). I have noticed, that when the church is attempting to change cultural messages, they will push the new agenda on LDSliving (a publication owned by the church). We used to teach that members "choose" to be gay...that no one is born gay. On the mormonsandgays.org site, one of the apostles acknowledges that "we don't know".....this article posted, also acknowledges the church is, softening it's stance......I'm just going to quote from the article, the link attached, "see more".....I am posting this to bring exposure to more members...we need to be less judgmental...especially at church. Church should be a place where we are not condemning others, but loving them (can you imagine how difficult it would be to exist in an LDS community, as this young woman is doing). Here is from the article...

I came here to BYU and things got a little harder to explain to myself. I was old enough to date now, so why did I still have no interest in boys at all? I then had my first experience in which I recognized that it wasn't just admiration; I was having feelings for a girl. I became quite angry with myself. I still believed that I wasn't born gay and I was certain these feelings were my fault. I thought it was my responsibility to stop having those thoughts and I wouldn't qualify for Heavenly Father's help until I did. So, I did everything I knew how to do: I prayed more, I read my scriptures more, I listened to conference talks every morning, I tried to be the picture of righteousness. But I wasn't perfect and every time I could sense the feelings creeping back in I blamed it on the day I didn't write in my gratitude journal or the night I prayed in my bed instead of kneeling down. When I finally allowed myself - at age 22 - to consider that maybe I had no choice in the matter, it felt like a whole new world opened. Everything started to make sense. For the first time in my life, I was beginning to understand myself. I was the same person, there was just more of me than I realized. God didn't hate me, I wasn't a monster, I was just gay.
I regret all the shame I used to feel. I'm proud of who I am. Knowing that I am a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing. I know it might not make sense to some people but I firmly believe that my Heavenly Father made me to be gay and He wants me to know who I am. When I think about it that way, I can't be ashamed."


The article is really good....it acknowledges that people who live within the BYU/church community, speak freely about their judgements, and have no idea that there are members who are gay, dwelling among them who are suffering internally because of all the judgements casts.

Here is the link...http://www.ldsliving.com/Lesbian-Mormon ... ce/s/86575

I also believe that the church is currently teaching gay members to live a celibate lifestyle...that they will have to backtrack on that. This is an extreme teaching, and we shouldn't expect others to live a lifestyle that leadership and priesthood holders would struggle to live themselves (this is my personal opinion).
This woman is making the same mistake a lot of people like her do. She attempts to solve her problem of same sex attraction strictly on a religious level.
Praying, reading scriptures, etc, is not a cure all for psychological, etc. ills. Problems need to be solved on the level they are found at. Reading my scriptures and becoming the "picture of righteousness" wouldn't cure me of homosexuality anymore than it would cure me of a cold.

For her to tell herself she has no choice in the matter does solve a problem for her, though, as if proves to be an easy way out of personal conflict. Just accepting things "as they are" removes one party to an internal debate, the part of yourself called the superego. The superego is the record that plays back to you what you have learned is right and wrong.

Once one party to a war surrenders, the war is over, simple as that. But does that mean the good guys won? Doesn't look like anybody "won", in hercase, but more like she is enjoying the relief of giving up and giving in, allowing the other side of her conflct to now dominate.

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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Lizzy60 »

The whole "God made me this way, so it's okay" completely disregards AGENCY. I don't care when a person decides to be gay, whether it's during their pre-Earth probation, or during this current probation, God does not MAKE someone gay. Just like He didn't MAKE anyone choose to follow Lucifer into outer darkness. Also, are there both wheat and tares on the Earth today? Who planted the wheat? When did He know they were wheat? Who came in the dark of night and planted the tares? How did he know they were tares?

Agency and choices, made by each of us long before we were born on this Earth. Don't blame God for your fallen nature. We are all dealing with our sinful nature, and are enemies to God, and it's false doctrine to say God made me have a sinful nature, so it's a beautiful thing that I don't need to be ashamed of.

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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by tribrac »

Confusion. Confusion everywhere. I get the impression the church is deeply split on this issue. half of the church believes the brethren will someday soon announce full approval of the alternative lifestyles. The other half believes the church continues to soften its stance only because of secret political pressure, and will snap back to a rigid stance once the church is free of the pressure.

How long can the two groups walk different paths together? What will happen when one or the other groups is disappointed?
Last edited by tribrac on October 8th, 2017, 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

5tev3 wrote: October 8th, 2017, 2:12 pm Anyone has the choice to marry someone of the oppsite gender. We don’t obey the gospel because it is convenient or matches our desires. Quite the opposite. The gospel requires sacrifice and rising above whatever place you may find yourself. I like this comment, did you get a chance to read the article...she attempted a sacrifice approach over and over, and that is when she realized she was denying who she was.

It is true that God is the author of weakness (Ether 12:27) which he gave to us so that we can be humble and turn to him. For some just being married period is a lifelong challenge. As we age our bodies change and become old and wrinkled. Attraction dwindles, but marriage isn’t about attraction, it has a purpose, a purpose that is rooted in what it means to become one. On this comment, I have pondered what it means to become one, just as we come to this earth..there is a spectrum, some people are asexual, some people are heterosexual, gay, lesbian....but we also know that hormonal, people come to this earth as hermaphrodites...there was even an article about a rare genetic difference group of people had, where a hormone kicked in a puberty, and then the boys grew penis at puberty (they were born females.). During the study of this group, they always identified with the sex they would "become"...if gender identity occurs at birth...and the "BODY" is actually the carnal, flesh version of this, Maybe the spirit always knows. This is just a thought i have pondered...not doctrine. To me, becoming one is a spiritual process and has less to do with ones on the exterior.

Let me share a some thoughts that I believe illustrate related principles. I grew up in Texas and Barbecue was a strong cultural thing. I was raised eating a ton of meat. People that didn’t eat meat were ridiculed; I never knew a vegetarian. I never had any issue with eating meat and certainly no desire to change. I referred to myself as a carnivore.

While serving a mission I had a rather eye-opening experience during a time when I was particularly close to the Lord. I wrote about that experience in detail on my blog. I questioned our cavelier attitude on taking animal life, but didn’t change. It wasn’t until a few years later and feeling like I didn’t know what to do eat healthy that I turned to D&C 89 and studied it in depth for about 6 months along with everything I could find about health, plants and animal life from scripture and church leaders. I researched all the dietary laws from Eden to Noah, Moses, Paul, and the Restoration.

Soon, I saw things in a new light. I chose to experiment on what I know saw and not eat animal flesh unless I needed it, following the principles of all the collected information I found. That was back in 2011 and I haven’t needed to eat a steak or brisket since. I lost 40 lbs and have built muscle all on a plant-based diet. I rarely get sick and I am thriving. I live in Texas where there is still a heavy use of Barbecue.

Now here’s the thing. I love the taste of meat, especially brisket. I love the smell of it and all that jazz. If you gave me some and I ate it, I would enjoy the taste. But I don’t eat it. I have every opportunity to, even when no one is watching. I could eat and no one would say anything, my life might be eaiser if I did. But I would not be living true to what I understand concerning the doctrine. Even though everything in my nature says, “Go forth and enjoy that, it is a part of your culture and upbringing. You clearly have an innate attraction and desire for it so live true to that.”

But I have a choice and choice trumps feeling, it trumps nature, it trumps all. When we have the path and the rod before us we can choose to accept it and go forward or we can follow our own path that leads who knows where.

A person with same sex feelings can study the doctrine, understand the doctrine and choose to become one flesh with a spouse in marriage. Celibacy is not God’s way. Yes, they can do this. Sacrifice, obedience, trust, the consistent pattern of man cleaving to his wife and becoming one flesh. These do not disappear because a few feel differently.

Teaching doctrine isn’t judging people. We cannot do people the disservice of hiding the path because it may be too hard for some. We do not serve people by telling them to not lay their sacrifice upon the altar. (i posted a comment about "translation errors in the bible"....it's an interesting study. This is why Im hesitant to accept absolutes on doctrine, when people of the homosexual community have received their own spiritual witnesses beyond the veil).Obviously these are my options, but as the daughter of a gay man, the church is taking a gentler approach. I have never heard these things taught or even mentioned....and years ago, I couldn't find anything even close to this. The tone is changing.

I have an aunt who lived the homosexual lifestyle fully. She wrestled with it and suffered much but she has learned the doctrine and rejected it choosing instead to align her life as close as possible with God’s patterns. She has an active temple recommend and is at peace. So what I am saying is possible, she is not an exception. The problem is that few care or understand what the doctrine is, especially the world.

These brothers and sisters of ours need sensitivity and understanding but they also need the doctrine and the hope that comes from knowing that celibacy and apostasy are not their only choices.

“For he is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him.” 1 Nephi 10:18

“And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.” Matt 19:4-6

“Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 11:11 (Ive read some interesting interpretations on Unicks (spelling), and also translation stuff which I have mentioned.....I also have my own understanding in regards to whether becoming one is "spiritual or physical" or both....i have also noticed that there is always a "male and female" even among homosexuals, one is more masculine, one is always more feminine....my point is...Ive prayed and studied because it affected my understanding...I can't imagine that God would leave them without peace...this is why I believe "the law" is designed to reveal sin...and sin, in scripture, is defined as "missing the mark." Im more symbolic on this topic than literal. Christ also makes a comment about Unicks (spelling)...that they are for the sake of Heaven...we don't have a whole lot of scholarly information on what that means. Paul also taught that it was better to be single, but then you've got that verse above you quoted from Paul in 1 Corinthians...I think there is more to it for me anyway

I’ve talked with many supporters of homosexual lifestyles and I ask the same question: “Let’s hear the doctrinal argument.”

There is absolutely no doctrinal argument for people of the same gender to discard God’s patterns and engage in acts that only simulate procreation. Teach correct principles so people can choose how to correctly govern themselves.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

tribrac wrote: October 8th, 2017, 3:04 pm Confusion. Confusion everywhere. I get the impression the church is deeply split on this issue. half of the church believes the brethren will someday soon announce full approval of the alternative lifestyles. The other half believes the church continues to soften its stance only because of secret political pressure, and will snap back to a rigid stance once the church is free of the pressure.

How long can the two groups walk different paths together? well, I don't like the idea that it would split the church...ive existed in the church while other disagreed with me...if things did change (and the church is ever changing)...I would hope we could all exist and move forward. I don't like the idea that politics would affect this issue at all.....and I don't think anyone has to approve of anyones lifestyle...I don't approve on teachings of polygamy, while others do....but I exist peacefully at church with them....does it bother me, yes, but I am getting better and better at choosing to love others in spite of what they do or say, even about those I love, or about me personally. That's the hardest place to be, but we can exist, and not have to approve of anything the other guy does...its between them and god anyway.

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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Elizabeth »

:( It is most disappointing that LDS Living would publish this article.

Homosexuality is a joke, it is so seriously bizarre and so past ridiculous that is incredulous that any sane person could entertain this insanity. To think that anyone who lives this lifestyle could still expect exaltation in eternities, as has been suggested here on another thread, is troubleing to say the least.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Elizabeth wrote: October 8th, 2017, 3:38 pm :( It is most disappointing that LDS Living would publish this article.

Homosexuality is a joke, it is so seriously bizarre and so past ridiculous that is incredulous that any sane person could entertain this insanity. To think that anyone who lives this lifestyle could still expect exaltation in eternities, as has been suggested here on another thread, is troubleing to say the least.
It's sad that you would make this kind of a comment. For these people, it is a real experience....and for religious gay people, it is an overwhelming experience....it is real to them...and they don't take it lightly....can you imagine...there will be people all over the church and BYU campus reacting to this young girl who showed her "face"...with these same kind of hurtful comments. To have someone be called bizarre, or not sane, for something they genuinely believe is hurtful. You don't have to approve, or accept, or even believe what she believes....but it is real to her. You will find that God loves us infinitely, all of us, and I can not believe that he would send people to this earth to have an experience in which they will be never-endingly tormented by something they believe, and that feels real to them...we should assume she is doing her best....and we should do ours. This isn't the kind of comment that fosters love of others...period. Let me repeat what it feels like you are saying...."you aren't worthy of being in God's presence..your own creator...you would be insane and ridiculous to think that you, could be like him, and partake of his glory...because you believe he created you this way" This is why...the church published this article...so you could have time to learn to love others...and communicate that love..... so that people like you dont destroy the church.

Lizzy60
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Lizzy60 »

TrueIntent -- the statement that you highlighted, where she says that being a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing, is where she has turned the corner from praying for healing and change and release from her same-sex attraction, into deciding that there is nothing wrong with her attraction, and even calling it a privilege and a blessing, and that it's nothing to be ashamed of.

That is why it's a huge problem, to those of us who know it's a grievous sin, to have this printed in a magazine read by many LDS members.

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Elizabeth
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Elizabeth »

TrueIntent, Do not pretend to be striving for exaltation / progression in the eternities whilst encouraging or living a homosexual lifestyle. Those who choose to follow Lucifer are free to do so, it is their choice, as are the consequences. But let none be fooled into thinking at their peril that it is not Lucifer they have chosen to follow.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Lizzy60 wrote: October 8th, 2017, 4:29 pm TrueIntent -- the statement that you highlighted, where she says that being a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing, is where she has turned the corner from praying for healing and change and release from her same-sex attraction, into deciding that there is nothing wrong with her attraction, and even calling it a privilege and a blessing, and that it's nothing to be ashamed of.

That is why it's a huge problem, to those of us who know it's a grievous sin, to have this printed in a magazine read by many LDS members.
How do YOU know it's a grevious sin? Do you have a personal spiritual witness of this?

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Elizabeth wrote: October 8th, 2017, 4:42 pm TrueIntent, Do not pretend to be striving for exaltation / progression in the eternities whilst encouraging or living a homosexual lifestyle. Those who choose to follow Lucifer are free to do so, it is their choice, as are the consequences. But let none be fooled into thinking at their peril that it is not Lucifer they have chosen to follow.
Im just looking at the way you speak about others....you dont sound like you follow God either....I heard in the scriptures that God is Love. Just saying...but judge away....if it makes you feel better. Most members "think" they are exalted just because they partook of the ordinances. You believe what you want to...let others believe what they want to as well.

Also, I didn't encourage a homosexual lifestyle...I just said that we should show more love and compassion, and based on my experiences, personal witnesses, and studies...im in the rather not judge another as a "sinner" because I don't know that I believe it's as black and white as we would like to believe. I feel comfortable saying this to my Heavenly Father, in his presence, it's truly what I believe. Ive had many conversations with him. It's my "true intent"...hence the name.

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TrueIntent
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by TrueIntent »

Lizzy60 wrote: October 8th, 2017, 4:29 pm TrueIntent -- the statement that you highlighted, where she says that being a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing, is where she has turned the corner from praying for healing and change and release from her same-sex attraction, into deciding that there is nothing wrong with her attraction, and even calling it a privilege and a blessing, and that it's nothing to be ashamed of.

That is why it's a huge problem, to those of us who know it's a grievous sin, to have this printed in a magazine read by many LDS members.
The church isn't teaching that gays can be released from it...they are not teaching them that they can be "healed" by the power of the atonement....they are teaching that it is not a sin to have the "thoughts" and that they should not act on it, and live a celibate lifestyle even though they still "think and feel" a certain way. (all those teachings go against scripture in my book...if it's a sin, Christ can forgive and heal desire for sin right?) I believe the atonement has power to "heal" people My question is, then, why are all these people who are begging and pleading to not be gay not healed and changed? after sincere repentance.....are they not sincere? or are we defining something as a "sin" that may not be.....what is the actual "hebrew definition of sin"....breaking a law does not mean we are bad....we all fail at the law. (you will have to read my post above...but there are many reasons why there may be translation errors in the bible)....I have only studied this issue a little, but I genuinely believe we shouldn't be too hasty to condemn

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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Lizzy60 »

TrueIntent wrote: October 8th, 2017, 4:51 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: October 8th, 2017, 4:29 pm TrueIntent -- the statement that you highlighted, where she says that being a lesbian is a privilege and a blessing, is where she has turned the corner from praying for healing and change and release from her same-sex attraction, into deciding that there is nothing wrong with her attraction, and even calling it a privilege and a blessing, and that it's nothing to be ashamed of.

That is why it's a huge problem, to those of us who know it's a grievous sin, to have this printed in a magazine read by many LDS members.
How do YOU know it's a grevious sin? Do you have a personal spiritual witness of this?
Yes, I have had a very strong spiritual witness of this. I have also had a very close female friend who battled same-sex attraction her entire life, and she also knew it was a grievous sin.

The young woman in the LDS Living article is an example of calling an evil thing a good thing. Isaiah prophecy is being fulfilled on the pages of a pro-LDS publication. Never thought I'd see the day.

Lizzy60
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Lizzy60 »

I also have a problem with the church teaching that having the thoughts is not sinful.
As a man thinketh, so is he. He who lusts after a woman has committed adultery in his heart.

Yes, we all have sins, failings, shortcomings, evil thoughts, and we are fallen creatures battling the natural man every day of our lives. I would encourage any person who is striving to become better, no matter what sin they are struggling with, but to say one is no longer ashamed of having homosexual attractions, because God made them that way, and to claim it's a privilege and a blessing to be a lesbian, is so far over the line for me, that I can't even believe I'm defending my position on this. Yikes!!

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Elizabeth
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Re: LDS LIVING--Lesbian says, "heavenly father made me to be gay."

Post by Elizabeth »

As one thinketh so are they.
Unrighteous thoughts which come into the mind uninvited can be and should be dismissed and not dwelt upon.

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