Who knows about Bitcoin?

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
Post Reply
User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 5523
Location: Sinope
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Silver wrote: September 12th, 2017, 7:23 am I feel confident that I'm not doing anything illegal or unconstitutional by merely owning cryptocurrencies.

...

As you know, travel to a foreign country always provides an encounter with a nosy question from the government authorities at the border. You are required to supply an answer as to whether or not you are carrying on your person US$10,000 or its equivalent. With your cryptocurrency wallet and password, you can cross a border with nothing in your hands or pockets and still possess many multiples of that amount while truthfully answering the question with a "No." Like a debit card, I guess. Only you don't even need to have a card.
Odd pairing of statements, Silver. First you say you're not doing anything illegal by owning them, then you go on to say how you can use them to transport funds internationally without having to declare them to Customs. To that point, here's how they define illicit trade in the Customs world:
National customs and border control agencies typically have a parallel mandate in which to facilitate the flows of licit and legal trade while concurrently deterring illicit and illegal trade. Illicit trade encompasses a diverse range of commodities and services that creates the formation of black markets around the world.
- Gautam Basu, Combating illicit trade and transnational smuggling: key challenges for customs and border control agencies, World Customs Journal, Vol. 8, No. 2
I think it's pretty much a given now that the primary uses of Bitcoin exist within the black market economy. Just look up "Silk Road" or try looking up "bitcoin black market". Almost since its inception, Bitcoin has been a black market tool. That makes it a target. Which brings me to my next point:

Congress is trying to pass bills to make it a requirement that you declare how much cryptocurrency you have in your possession when you cross the border:
New US Legislation Would Force Travelers to Declare Bitcoin, Digital Assets
Papers please!

P. H. Madore on 19/06/2017

Since the problems of immigration and illegal immigration have been brought to the forefront of the national conversation, one thing that is frequently said by opponents of enhanced immigration enforcement and other additional measures by the government is that laws are already in place which effectively achieve the ends desired, and that more laws are not only unnecessary, but unlikely to be any more effective.

The same can be said of the United States’ money laundering laws. While they are not bulletproof, and while they do not prevent money laundering from happening (as laws do not inherently prevent anything at all from happening), they do punish those who get caught trying to cheat the system. A new bill (S. 1241) introduced by Senator Chuck Grassley specifically targets Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies and ties them in with terrorist financing and money laundering, making demands on subordinate agencies to find methods of blocking certain cryptocurrencies and digital assets allegedly tied to so-called terrorism. Specifically, agencies involved (such as ICE and the TSA) have to find out a way to “interdict” digital currencies and compile a report within 18 months for:

[D]etailing a strategy to interdict and detect prepaid access devices, digital currencies, or other similar instruments, at border crossings and other ports of entry for the United States.

Additional provisions in the bill make it such that simply having a blank check, which is signed and can be drawn on an account that has more than $10,000, is considered carrying more than $10,000 and must be declared. This bit is Orwellian in natures, since someone may have no clue how much is in the account of the person who gave them the check.

While cutting off the financing of groups which are dedicated to senseless murder and the establishment of religious states is an admirable goal, the question of how these changes to existing law will actually achieve that has to be examined. For starters, existing regulations already make it illegal to fund or assist a terrorist organization in any way. Then, most such organizations have an all but impossible task if they want to use anything outside of cash. Cash is already highly detectable by border agencies in a number of ways, and in some ways as difficult to smuggle as are drugs. The second problem arises when you consider what they are doing here – regulating incoming money without providing any proof that it would or could do anything to prevent domestic terrorist activities.

Thus, it comes as no surprise that many libertarians and cryptoanarchists automatically view this move as a way to criminalize traveling with bitcoins. Luckily for the average bitcoiner, it’s trivial to hide bitcoins, and the agencies that have been directed to detect them will have a serious hurdle in so doing. Those who are more interested in following the law to the letter are more than welcome to declare the full amount and accounting of their bitcoins, but ultimately it is left up to the agent’s discretion as to whether or not your money is involved in a crime, and Bitcoin is generally treated the same as cash.

The cryptographic nature of cryptocurrencies, it seems, will become more important than ever in the coming days. What they don’t know is not there cannot be demanded from one, yet we would of course prefer a more just world where the government was not so interested in seizing every bit of wealth private citizens extract from the economy for themselves with no help from said government and, in the case of cryptocurrency operations, little or no protection not to mention yearly hassles of noticeable scale.
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/new-us- ... al-assets/

This is only the first law coming down the pike to reign in cryptocurrencies. More are likely coming. There is a bulls eye on anything that could be used in the Black Market, and this is especially true of anything that claims to rival government-sponsored fiat. I haven't discussed the NSA hack attempts on blockchain or the conspiracy theories about how "Satoshi" may just be a nom-de-plume of the CIA.

Suffice it to say I think your advice to avoid putting your grocery cash there would be well heeded! :!:

User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 5523
Location: Sinope
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Full Disclaimer: I don't own any cryptocurrencies. I am too much of a wimp. There be sharks in them thar waters, and I ain't the fastest swimmer in the ocean!

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

IWS, your post brings up an interesting dilemma. If a woman gets on an airplane bound for a foreign country holding a debit card with an available balance of $10,000 and doesn't declare the card at her destination port of entry, is she in violation of any laws?

If the same woman arrives in a foreign country with no financial instruments and only a memorized password to her bitcoin account that happens to be valued in excess of $10,000, has she broken any laws when she does not declare the account? The better question may be: In the near future, will she be in violation?

Are cryptocurrencies used in unrighteous/illegal activities? Without a doubt. Just like guns. Who's the baddie, the gun or the guy holding it in the act of murder? Long before bitcoin existed, every sort of horrible thing we can think of was happening which will continue to be the case until Christ returns. Is your point that by merely owning cryptocurrencies one is, even unconsciously, supporting evil because they are primarily used in the black market economy? Perhaps you better define "black market" because many Venezuelans are surviving by buying basic foodstuffs on the so-called black market.

Blockchain technology has some beneficial results like providing a vehicle to store something of value for poor people around the world who have cellphones but no bank account. Think Asia, Africa and South America. (For example, https://www.omise.co/ )

I hope others will chime in with their thoughts. Am I the only one on LDSFF who owns crypto?

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

Multiple links, images, and video in the article can be seen by clicking on the link immediately below:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-1 ... losing-bit

hedgeless_horseman's E-Z Internet Guide To Safely Buying and Then Conveniently Losing Bitcoin in a Tragic Boating Accident

hedgeless_horseman's picture
by hedgeless_horseman
Sep 11, 2017 4:57 PM
0
SHARES
TwitterFacebookReddit
"We fear what we do not understand."

You may have read my ZeroHedge article, hedgeless_horseman's E-Z Internet Guide On How To Actually Buy Gold, and Not Just Talk About It, Bitchezzz!!!! This past June, at the First ZeroHedge Symposium and Live Fight Club in Marfa, I learned some good information from Ken and Jonathon about disintermediation using crypto currencies during their excellent talk, "Rise of New Financial Ecosystems - How to Make it Work For You."

Like other sympopsium attendees, after listening to the talk, I felt confident enough to return home and begin aquiring some firsthand experience with cryptocurrencies. Now, just three months later, I bring to you, dear ZH readers, hedgeless_horseman's E-Z Internet Guide To Safely Buying and Then Conveniently Losing Bitcoin in a Tragic Boating Accident.

It's so E-Z even an old goldbug can do it!

First, buy a Trezor Hardware Wallet. Yes, they are probably most conveneintly available at Amazon, the go-fund-me site for Jeff Bezos' political blog known as, The Washington Post. If you would rather not be an enabler of Jeff's propaganda, here is another site that appears to sell them in the USA: https://cryptowalletsupply.com/ Please, let us all know in the comment section, below, if you have a better source.

Second, while you are waiting for the Trezor to arrive in the mail...it is a piece of hardware after all...open a Coinbase account on line at: https://www.coinbase.com/

Yes, I understand that Coinbase is a @#$!%&! bank, for all intents and purposes, and I am aware of at least a few of the risks of using their service, only some of which can be easily mitigated. I will touch on some tactics in a moment, if you keep reading. Please, remember that this is an E-Z Internet Guide, intended to help other neophytes like me gain firsthand experience with cryptocurrencies. Coinbase does, in fact, make it easy to buy Bitcoin, at least relative to the other online options currently available. There are, of course, costs in addition to risks. Expect Coinbase to charge you a fee of about $19.18 to purchase $480.82 of BTC using a Visa Debit Card. Once again, please, let us all know in the comment section, if you have a safer, better, and/or cheaper solution.

When setting up a Coinbase account, I discovered that I could buy Bitcoin, Ethereum, or LiteCoin using either a wire transfer, checking account, or bank card. If I upload a photo ID, to authenticate my bank account, then I am, "rewarded," with higher weekly purchase limits. I understand that there are probably much more secretive ways of buying Bitcoin, but why? I learned in Marfa that, unlike gold coins, Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous, and are rather quite the opposite. It seems to me that for BTC purchases, secure is far more important than secret. If you disagree, then you can probably find someone on Craig's List that will sell you some BTC for cash at midnight behind the Bowling Alley.

This is not an article about WHY you should buy bitcoin. The main goal of this article is to spur some discussion about the practical aspects of HOW you can buy Bitcoin, safely, and then lose it in a convenient fashion. I also hope to communicate my personal experience that the process is not insurmountable, but neither is it very convenient. It may, however, be relatively safe, thanks mostly to the cool little gadget known as a Trezor.

John McAfee, the computer security expert that vowed to eat his own d*** on live television if BTC does not rise to $500,000 inside of three years, recommends Trezor.

Talk about having some skin in the game.

August 25, 2017
Excerpt from an interview with John McAfee

Interviewer: “Is there any way to secure your bitcoins once you have earned them?”

"Absolutely! I think mine are secure. But the only way to do it is offline. You can buy devices, my favorite one is Trezor and the reason is, is because your seed keys. When you first create a wallet it gives you a thing called seed keys. Its a list of words, random words. Car, shoelace, dog, cow, whatever. These are your seed keys. Randomly generated to the point that theres no way anybody could ever guess them in the right order.

… Whats nice about the Trezor device, is it has a tiny little screen that shows you the seed keys on this screen not your smart phone, not your laptop, not your desktop. But on that device. So no hacker can access them. Then once you put your bitcoin into the wallet, unplug it, bury it in the back yard, hide it under your mattress, whatever you want to do with it like it was real cash.

But to keep the wallet on any intelligent device (referring to online wallets) whether its your laptop, desktop or any mobile device is insane, it will get stolen.”

Once your Trezor arrives, make sure that the Trezor's secure packaging is intact, then follow the instructions that come with it. They will walk you through setting up a Trezor Wallet on the internet, and your Trezor hardware device.

After you have completed these instructions, and hidden both paper copies of your list of seed key code words, read this article about how and why to, "Hide Your TREZOR Wallets with Multiple Passphrases." Hidden Trezor wallets are the technological equivalent of losing your gold in a boating accident. Good luck proving I didn't.

In the age when security services might detain you until you decrypt your hard drive, or border guards might threaten to deny you entry until you reveal your phone’s PIN, it is only a matter of time before the state authorities discover what Bitcoin hardware wallets are (maybe they did already). When they do, what can stop them from forcing you to unlock and reveal your wallet?

This is not only limited to governments though, look at the classic $5 wrench example...

With this or a similar set up you are now able to produce a decoy wallet under duress or during government controls. Since there is no way to prove that there is any wallet beyond the ones that you have admitted to, the “attacker” will have to be satisfied with the revealed ones.

Also, for national security purposes, you have unlocked and “decrypted” your device and therefore you have fully complied with the security control.

Pro Tip

When crossing borders (or even during daily usage), you can always turn Passphrase Encryption off and on repeatedly. If you turn it off, the passphrase-protected wallets will not be deleted, but the passphrase input form will disappear from the GUI. This creates an illusion that passphrases were never used in the first place?—?one cannot accuse you of having hidden wallets. When needed, turn the feature back on and use your passphrases as usual.


https://blog.trezor.io/hide-your-trezor ... passphrase...


Next, buy some Bitcoin in your Coinbase account, then send it to your Trazor wallet. You can generate a new receive address for your Trazor each time, to at least try to @#$%! with the crypto-transaction tracking software being used by the revenuers.

Last, but not least, consider the benefits of dollar cost averaging, which is buying the same dollar amount of BTC every week, month, or quarter, to lower your average purchase price in a rising market, and therefore increase your rate of return. I described this proven strategy in the article about buying gold coins, and it works the same for BTC.

If you do happen to lose your Trezor in a boating accident, you can always recover your Bitcoin by using your list of seed code words. No SCUBA gear required!

Peace, prosperity, love, and liberty!

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

nvr wrote: September 8th, 2017, 3:22 pm I've shared my background with Bitcoin before, but here's a few thoughts I've had recently after listening to some of the debate given its recent price gains:
It's not really private - a record is kept of every transaction made. If an institution or government had the interest and resources, you and your purchases could be identified from the blockchain.
It's not tangible - the network that recognizes the value relies on power grid to operate and would be useless in aftermath of war / emp attack.
It's not really secure - I had all my bitcoins stolen by malware (or Microsoft engineer) which had somehow found the bitcoin wallet on my pc, grabbed my private key and sent all 24 bitcoins to themselves
This last point was probably more my fault since I didn't encrypt the folder. But compared to precious metals stored inside a building, a bitcoin wallet held by lay users is in general much more vulnerable to virtual theft attempts. The right way to have done it would have been for me to have written down or printed off the private key (paper wallet) or at least stored it on a usb drive disconnected to internet. But then that is not very convenient when desiring to spend it.
I have a question about the highlighted comment, addressed to anyone who knows the answer.

If hackers -- governmental or otherwise -- can expose this sort of information, why hasn't it already happened? Wouldn't there be extreme satisfaction on the part of the hacker in publishing data which shows that John Doe owns $10 million in bitcoins? Even if the hacker couldn't access the coins and could only expose the owner's ID, it seems like that would be a more common event -- common enough that we would hear about it.

I'm sorry to read that you lost your 24 BTC. That would amount to a tidy sum right now. Do you have no intention in trying to mine anything else? A company called NEM issues a currency called XEM which is apparently easier to "harvest."

User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 5523
Location: Sinope
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Isn't Jamie Dimon on the roster for Federal Reserve candidates?
Bitcoin Tumbles After Jamie Dimon Calls It A Fraud: "Would Fire Anyone Trading It"

Surprised by the sudden air pocket below bitcoin? Curious if this was caused by some new, unconfirmed Chinese crackdown on bitcoin traders, exchanges, and other money laundered? No, the answer is Jamie Dimon, who in a angry outburst during the same conference in which he preannounced JPM's 20% trading revenue drop, lashed out at the crypto currency, calling it a fraud, "worse than tulip bulbs", says it "won't end well" and will "eventually blow up", and that "any trader trading bitcoin" will be fired for being stupid.

DIMON: BITCOIN IS A FRAUD
DIMON: BITCOIN IS WORSE THAN TULIP BULBS
DIMON: BITCOIN WILL EVENTUALLY BLOW UP
DIMON: BITCOIN WON'T END WELL
DIMON: WOULD FIRE ANY TRADER TRADING BITCOIN FOR BEING STUPID
But how does Jamie really feel? Of course, if "a trader" bought $100,000 of Bitcoin several years ago, they would now be richer than Jamie, but that's another story.

What is more surprising, is that bitcoin actually reacted to this outburst by the JPM CEO, sliding sharply, and dragging the entire cryptocurrency space with it. Or perhaps not surprising at all as hundreds of volatility-starved JPM traders quietly liquidated their accounts moments after hearing Dimon's threat:

As for Dimon's personal vendetta with the digital currency, one twitter commentator said it best:

BTC bulls: proof that "we" are a threat to the establishment + Gandhi quote
BTC bears: see? https://t.co/e2ZCmjKi3C
— Barbarian Capital (@BarbarianCap) September 12, 2017
In any case, we now have the Dimon bottom in bitcoin too. Let's see how fast until it, too, is filled, metaphorically speaking...
If this is a preview of coming attractions, it doesn't end well at all! He has just announced his intentions if selected to run the FOMC, and I'm sure they are already in agreement.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

ZH has a lot of BTC articles lately. Cool stuff at the link.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-1 ... government

Bitcoin's Biggest Bull Isn't 'Long Crypto', He's 'Short Government'

Sep 12, 2017 11:22 AM

Six years ago, Kyle Bass provided a crucial context for the debt-laden world of ever-increasing sovereign debt:

"Buying gold is just buying a put against the idiocy of the political cycle. It's That Simple"
And now, as interest in Bitcoin surges, Arthur Hayes, a former CitiGroup trader who runs BitMEX - a Hong Kong-based crypto exchange - asks an interesting question - In the coming war between digital currencies, which side will your money be on?

As CoinDesk reports, Hayes thinks blockchain is lighting a fuse that will ignite open combat between "true cryptocurrencies" (like bitcoin) and a new "digital fiat" controlled by central banks.

These two parallel currency systems are the inevitable outcome of his core investing thesis:

"A digital society needs digital cash."
In other words, bitcoin has brought the world cryptocurrency and institutions of all kinds will use the technology to their advantage.

Here's what Hayes sees shaking out as a result: Governments will respond to the proliferation of cryptocurrency by withdrawing banknotes from circulation, and governments will issue digital fiat that functions similarly to cryptocurrency.

But don't be fooled, according to Hayes, the similarities here are all on the surface.

Government-controlled digital fiat will be the antithesis of absolutely everything true cryptocurrency stands for. Central bank's issuance of digital money will lead to a brave new world where governments are able to monitor and control every single transaction in an economy.

And countering that overreach is the reason Hayes believes bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have a value proposition not just today, but for years to come.

When Hayes talks about digital money, he sees the scope of battle on a truly global scale, not just within the U.S., but all across Europe, in China and in India.

What all these country's governments have in common, according to Hayes, is the desire to use digital fiat as a tool of economic control.

He sees digital fiat as an instrument that will allow governments and global central banks to monitor every financial transaction, tax every sale and even lock out people from the payment system if they don't have the right government-issued licenses.

Shifting digital fiat into cryptocurrency, he reasons, will be the only way to preserve privacy. Plus, cryptocurrency will allow individuals and businesses to trade in jurisdictions where parties don't trust electronic fiat – or each other, for that matter – because they know cryptocurrencies cannot be tampered with.

Hayes said:

"If you want to have a financial presence – and not have somebody else know what you're doing at all times – then you'll use a form of cryptocurrency."
A form of cryptocurrency that's true, like bitcoin, zcash, monero or dash, he says, is one that offers users both privacy and security.

But there may be limits to the value propositions of even true cryptocurrencies today. For example, Hayes sees small value transactions are out of line with a once resounding narrative in the space, that bitcoin is – and should be – a payment system for consumers. Hayes told CoinDesk:

"I don't think bitcoin is going to replace consumer facing activities, like buying a cup of coffee or buying a magazine at a 7-Eleven."
Hayes called bitcoin's user experience "terrible" for these purchases, because public blockchains are slower than private payment systems. So, for a trip to Starbucks, buying coffee with Apple Pay is a better experience than paying with bitcoin, he contends. It's an interesting observation in that many of bitcoin's strongest proponents tend to envision a world where the cryptocurrency is used for everything. Even still, Hayes is just as bullish on bitcoin, as he continues to reiterate what a fantastic mechanism it is for online international payments and anonymity.

And "those trade flows are massive," he said.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

iWriteStuff wrote: September 12th, 2017, 12:25 pm Isn't Jamie Dimon on the roster for Federal Reserve candidates?
Bitcoin Tumbles After Jamie Dimon Calls It A Fraud: "Would Fire Anyone Trading It"

Surprised by the sudden air pocket below bitcoin? Curious if this was caused by some new, unconfirmed Chinese crackdown on bitcoin traders, exchanges, and other money laundered? No, the answer is Jamie Dimon, who in a angry outburst during the same conference in which he preannounced JPM's 20% trading revenue drop, lashed out at the crypto currency, calling it a fraud, "worse than tulip bulbs", says it "won't end well" and will "eventually blow up", and that "any trader trading bitcoin" will be fired for being stupid.

DIMON: BITCOIN IS A FRAUD
DIMON: BITCOIN IS WORSE THAN TULIP BULBS
DIMON: BITCOIN WILL EVENTUALLY BLOW UP
DIMON: BITCOIN WON'T END WELL
DIMON: WOULD FIRE ANY TRADER TRADING BITCOIN FOR BEING STUPID
But how does Jamie really feel? Of course, if "a trader" bought $100,000 of Bitcoin several years ago, they would now be richer than Jamie, but that's another story.

What is more surprising, is that bitcoin actually reacted to this outburst by the JPM CEO, sliding sharply, and dragging the entire cryptocurrency space with it. Or perhaps not surprising at all as hundreds of volatility-starved JPM traders quietly liquidated their accounts moments after hearing Dimon's threat:

As for Dimon's personal vendetta with the digital currency, one twitter commentator said it best:

BTC bulls: proof that "we" are a threat to the establishment + Gandhi quote
BTC bears: see? https://t.co/e2ZCmjKi3C
— Barbarian Capital (@BarbarianCap) September 12, 2017
In any case, we now have the Dimon bottom in bitcoin too. Let's see how fast until it, too, is filled, metaphorically speaking...
If this is a preview of coming attractions, it doesn't end well at all! He has just announced his intentions if selected to run the FOMC, and I'm sure they are already in agreement.
Hahaha. I guess Dimon wanted to buy in at a lower price.

Churn. Churn. Churn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4

User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 5523
Location: Sinope
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Silver wrote: September 12th, 2017, 12:32 pm
Hahaha. I guess Dimon wanted to buy in at a lower price.

Churn. Churn. Churn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4
It's either that or he's preparing for his job interview with the FOMC! Take your pick :)

And hey, maybe it's both? :shock:

nvr
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1112

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by nvr »

Silver wrote: September 12th, 2017, 11:23 am
nvr wrote: September 8th, 2017, 3:22 pm I've shared my background with Bitcoin before, but here's a few thoughts I've had recently after listening to some of the debate given its recent price gains:
It's not really private - a record is kept of every transaction made. If an institution or government had the interest and resources, you and your purchases could be identified from the blockchain.
It's not tangible - the network that recognizes the value relies on power grid to operate and would be useless in aftermath of war / emp attack.
It's not really secure - I had all my bitcoins stolen by malware (or Microsoft engineer) which had somehow found the bitcoin wallet on my pc, grabbed my private key and sent all 24 bitcoins to themselves
This last point was probably more my fault since I didn't encrypt the folder. But compared to precious metals stored inside a building, a bitcoin wallet held by lay users is in general much more vulnerable to virtual theft attempts. The right way to have done it would have been for me to have written down or printed off the private key (paper wallet) or at least stored it on a usb drive disconnected to internet. But then that is not very convenient when desiring to spend it.
I have a question about the highlighted comment, addressed to anyone who knows the answer.

If hackers -- governmental or otherwise -- can expose this sort of information, why hasn't it already happened? Wouldn't there be extreme satisfaction on the part of the hacker in publishing data which shows that John Doe owns $10 million in bitcoins? Even if the hacker couldn't access the coins and could only expose the owner's ID, it seems like that would be a more common event -- common enough that we would hear about it.

I'm sorry to read that you lost your 24 BTC. That would amount to a tidy sum right now. Do you have no intention in trying to mine anything else? A company called NEM issues a currency called XEM which is apparently easier to "harvest."
I sold those graphics cards soon after finding out about my loss (on ebay back when AMD gpu's were still enough to do the job) . I'm kind of turned off to the whole cryptocurrency thing. Any money I'd put there, I'll just use to stack PM's. I think they probably can or will soon figure ways to track accounts especially given their backdoor access to operating systems , the PRISM network etc. On travelling with funds, no one should have the power to ask you how much money you're carrying when travelling - that's a Nazi-ish idiotic law that I would not bother obeying. Bitcoin isn't a very good means to the end to avoid that because it I think can still be used to track users.

User avatar
harakim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2819
Location: Salt Lake Megalopolis

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by harakim »

Silver wrote: September 12th, 2017, 11:23 am
nvr wrote: September 8th, 2017, 3:22 pm I've shared my background with Bitcoin before, but here's a few thoughts I've had recently after listening to some of the debate given its recent price gains:
It's not really private - a record is kept of every transaction made. If an institution or government had the interest and resources, you and your purchases could be identified from the blockchain.
It's not tangible - the network that recognizes the value relies on power grid to operate and would be useless in aftermath of war / emp attack.
It's not really secure - I had all my bitcoins stolen by malware (or Microsoft engineer) which had somehow found the bitcoin wallet on my pc, grabbed my private key and sent all 24 bitcoins to themselves
This last point was probably more my fault since I didn't encrypt the folder. But compared to precious metals stored inside a building, a bitcoin wallet held by lay users is in general much more vulnerable to virtual theft attempts. The right way to have done it would have been for me to have written down or printed off the private key (paper wallet) or at least stored it on a usb drive disconnected to internet. But then that is not very convenient when desiring to spend it.
I have a question about the highlighted comment, addressed to anyone who knows the answer.

If hackers -- governmental or otherwise -- can expose this sort of information, why hasn't it already happened? Wouldn't there be extreme satisfaction on the part of the hacker in publishing data which shows that John Doe owns $10 million in bitcoins? Even if the hacker couldn't access the coins and could only expose the owner's ID, it seems like that would be a more common event -- common enough that we would hear about it.

I'm sorry to read that you lost your 24 BTC. That would amount to a tidy sum right now. Do you have no intention in trying to mine anything else? A company called NEM issues a currency called XEM which is apparently easier to "harvest."
It would be somewhat difficult for a hacker to identify the owner of a wallet, but pretty straightforward for the government. I am confident there is a database somewhere with your name on that wallet.

davedan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3064
Location: Augusta, GA
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by davedan »

TPTB wants us used to using and trusting digital currency and credit card points because we will more readily accept being chipped and our currency being loaded on our chips.

We will get "credits" for brushing our teeth, and spend "credits" for each time our fork is lifted with out "internet of things" internet-connected devices ,

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

davedan wrote: September 12th, 2017, 6:29 pm TPTB wants us used to using and trusting digital currency and credit card points because we will more readily accept being chipped and our currency being loaded on our chips.

We will get "credits" for brushing our teeth, and spend "credits" for each time our fork is lifted with out "internet of things" internet-connected devices ,
Kind of like where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. When the time comes, I hope we all have the strength of character and testimony to reject the chip.

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 8960
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

davedan wrote: September 12th, 2017, 6:29 pm TPTB wants us used to using and trusting digital currency and credit card points because we will more readily accept being chipped and our currency being loaded on our chips.

We will get "credits" for brushing our teeth, and spend "credits" for each time our fork is lifted with out "internet of things" internet-connected devices ,
Banks will close your accounts, if you do too many crypto conversions. :shock:

Energy has real value, and is not finite, which are good properties upon which to value a currency. A dodecagon has 12 sides; "dec" like decimal, means 10, so "do" represents 2. Two cents is biblical, so maybe 200 cents per Dollar works, with each dollar valued at 200 or 2000 MegaJoules. See my previous post: in lieu of storage, there's certified capacity to produce about energy backed coinage.

Once upon a time, one cent was the common wage for one days work. Joules are a unit of work, which is energy applied over time, so energy backed currencies reflect biblical principle; unitjuggler converts MJs to KWHr, which is the work unit upon which our electric bill is paid.
Last edited by BeNotDeceived on September 12th, 2017, 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
harakim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2819
Location: Salt Lake Megalopolis

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by harakim »

Silver wrote: September 12th, 2017, 8:02 pm
davedan wrote: September 12th, 2017, 6:29 pm TPTB wants us used to using and trusting digital currency and credit card points because we will more readily accept being chipped and our currency being loaded on our chips.

We will get "credits" for brushing our teeth, and spend "credits" for each time our fork is lifted with out "internet of things" internet-connected devices ,
Kind of like where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. When the time comes, I hope we all have the strength of character and testimony to reject the chip.
It's funny because we all know this great evil is coming and wonder if we'll be strong enough to resist. I think that says something about us. Just when I became sure I would be willing to pass on the chip, I had kids. Obviously, if I know the chip is evil, I will resist. But if it is less certain, it will be really difficult to resist. I know there are many who have passed through this and are steadfast and knowledgeable enough to know when to stand up for something, and I think I will be too. I'll hope God can make it clear what is evil.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

Lots of bitcoin news -- mostly negative -- good for lowering the price -- if you're buying.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-1 ... -sanctions

Is North Korea Using Bitcoin To Get Around UN Sanctions?


by Tyler Durden
Sep 12, 2017 11:55 PM

The latest round of United Nations sanctions against North Korea are designed specifically to prevent Kim Jong Un from obtaining hard currency. Luckily for the Kim regime, there’s always bitcoin.

According to Bloomberg, the isolated country, facing further restrictions on exports that would bring in desperately needed Chinese yuan, has increasingly been turning to bitcoin to circumvent the sanctions.

And to try and keep the illicit digital money flowing, the country has reportedly stepped up attacks against South Korean digital currency exchanges, causing disruptions in one of the largest markets for digital currencies like Ethereum and bitcoin, according to a new report from security researcher FireEye. In addition, the North has managed to breach an English-language bitcoin news website and collect bitcoin ransom payments from global victims of the malware WannaCry attack (although we thought that one had been linked to China?).



“So far this year, FireEye has confirmed attacks on at least three South Korean exchanges, including one in May that was successful. Around the same time, local media reported that Seoul-based exchange Yapizon lost more than 3,800 bitcoins (worth about $15 million at current rates) due to theft, although FireEye said there are not clear indications of North Korean involvement.”
According to Naeem Aslam, a contributor at Forbes, the North cultivated an “army of hackers” to go after digital-currency exchanges after the digital currency’s world-beating gains piqued Kim Jong Un’s interest.

“North Korea has an army of hackers who are constantly targeting South Korea, the hectic trading hub for cryptocurrency. The strategy would aid the country in bypassing many trade restrictions which also include the new sanctions. Moreover, the massive popularity of the cryptocurrency gained Kim’s attention and for crypto traders, this represents an opportunity. A higher demand for cryptocurrency would only boost its price,” said Forbes contributor Naeem Aslam.”
North Korea’s Reconnaissance General Bureau, which directly reports to Kim Jong Un, handles peacetime cyber operations from espionage to network disruptions and employs an estimated 6,000 officers, according to a 2016 report from the International Cyber Policy Centre at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.



A group within the RGB known as TEMP.Hermit is believed to be responsible for the attacks on the South Korean bitcoin exchanges. FireEye said it has been linked to a 2015 attack on South Korea’s nuclear industry. The hackers have also been tied by other security firms to last year’s attack on Samsung Electronics Co.’s corporate messenger app and the breach of Sony Corp.’s film studio, which the FBI blamed on North Korea.

"They’re pretty capable actors in comparison to other North Korean activity we see,” said Luke McNamara, a researcher at FireEye and author of the new report. "They’ve been creative in how they use their cyber-espionage capability."
And with the US likely to continue to push for still tighter sanctions as the North continues its provocative missile and nuclear tests – that is, until Russia and China finally say “enough” – the isolated country will likely deepen its reliance on the digital currency.

“We definitely see sanctions being a big lever driving this sort of activity,” McNamara said. “They probably see it as a very low-cost solution to bring in hard cash.”

"As more money goes into cryptocurrency exchanges and more people buy bitcoin and ethereum, exchanges become larger targets for this group,” said McNamara. He said so far he did not have evidence that Kim Jong Un’s regime has targeted cryptocurrency exchanges outside of South Korea, but did not rule out the possibility in the future.”
And with so many shadowy digital currency exchanges operating throughout Asia, cashing out the country’s digital currency positions would be easy.

“They could compromise an exchange and transfer those bitcoins to other exchanges elsewhere in Asia or exchange them for a more anonymous cryptocurrency,” said McNamara. “There are variety of things they could do to cash out.”
As Aslam points out, increasing demand for digital currencies from North Korea could ultimately lift prices on a global scale as the country is increasingly forced to transact at in bitcoin, Ethereum and their peers. North Korea isn’t the only country that’s turning to bitcoin out of a sense of desperation. As the Atlantic pointed out earlier this month, thousands of Venezuelans have taken to minería bitcoin – or mining bitcoin – to try and get their hands on precious US dollars.

Because, in some cases, it’s either that, or starvation.

davedan
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3064
Location: Augusta, GA
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by davedan »

An implanted chip is not the "mark of the beast". We are all already chipped with our credit cards and cell phones.

The "mark" is the initiations people receive to become part of the global conspiracy (super entity). It is satan's endowment. Most people accept thinking "this is what I got to do to make it" and "I dont believe in satan anyways".

TPTB float the story that the mark is a chip or barcode tatoo, over-interpreting it so that the chip gets accepted. Because proponents can make fun of opponents by saying "these crazy people think a chip under your skin is some crazy mark of satan"

Receiving the "mark" is instant damnation. I dont think virtual currencies are a good idea. They are unconstitutional and support the system of control TPTB are setting up. But your not gonna go to hell if you are chipped.

A chip with medical info and id isnt a bad idea. But the virtual currency system meant to control behavior is.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

davedan wrote: September 13th, 2017, 12:23 am An implanted chip is not the "mark of the beast". We are all already chipped with our credit cards and cell phones.

The "mark" is the initiations people receive to become part of the global conspiracy (super entity). It is satan's endowment. Most people accept thinking "this is what I got to do to make it" and "I dont believe in satan anyways".

TPTB float the story that the mark is a chip or barcode tatoo, over-interpreting it so that the chip gets accepted. Because proponents can make fun of opponents by saying "these crazy people think a chip under your skin is some crazy mark of satan"

Receiving the "mark" is instant damnation. I dont think virtual currencies are a good idea. They are unconstitutional and support the system of control TPTB are setting up. But your not gonna go to hell if you are chipped.

A chip with medical info and id isnt a bad idea. But the virtual currency system meant to control behavior is.
Have you heard some of the proponents of the various currencies speak of "decentralization" and "transparency" and "fiat?" It seems that at least some of them believe they are in the fight against the central banks and the debt instruments those banks create. I accept the possibility that many of the virtual currency backers could be deceived or are just outright lying. However, it seems as if they are trying to get away from fiat currencies and the resulting slavery.

As for the constitutionality of virtual currencies, that's a big question mark for me. The federal government is restricted from making anything besides gold and silver money. Are individuals prevented by the same verbiage from making something with which to barter for goods?

User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 5523
Location: Sinope
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Just an observation, but there is a distinct correlation between cryptos and PMs. Both seem to go up together, although at vastly different paces. They also go down together. However, the pace of the decline in cryptos is just as fast as their rise:

Here's silver's ~1% drop:
silverdrop.jpg
silverdrop.jpg (48.91 KiB) Viewed 962 times
And here's Bitcoin:
bitcoindrop.jpg
bitcoindrop.jpg (51.04 KiB) Viewed 962 times
So they seem to share that correlation characteristic.... That being said, one of the two is a heckuva lot more volatile. Long range, they're probably both going up, and probably at the same times, but you have to have a strong stomach to handle the swings!

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

Somebody has a lot of confidence in Bitcoin. McAfee may just be talking his book, but he makes a few compelling arguments in this 4 minute 17 second video.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/09/13/j ... -500k.html

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

http://theantimedia.org/jp-morgan-ceo-j ... n-bitcoin/

JP Morgan CEO Exposed for Being “Full of [Dung]” After Calling Bitcoin a Fraud
September 14, 2017 at 6:37 am
Written by Josie Wales

(ANTIMEDIA) New York, NY — Long-time cryptocurrency critic and CEO of JP Morgan Chase Jamie Dimon slammed Bitcoin earlier this week, claiming the digital currency is “a fraud.” He later threatened to fire any JP Morgan traders caught trading in Bitcoin. “I’d fire them in a second. For two reasons: It’s against our rules, and they’re stupid. And both are dangerous,” Dimon said at the Barclay’s Tuesday, spurring a wave of backlash from critics on social media.

Charlie Shrem, founder of BitcoinFoundation.org, pointed out the CEO’s hypocrisy in a tweet that read “Jamie Dimon has had an internal ‘Blockchain Working Group’ for over 2 years at JPMorgan & my friend is on it. Basically, he’s full of [dung].” Additionally, Blockchain Capital Founder Bart Stephens noted the irony of Dimon bashing Bitcoin on the same day the company held a conference on blockchain technology. Add to the fact that JP Morgan Chase has tried to patent an alternative to Bitcoin and been rejected 175 times, and Dimon’s consistent attacks on the cryptocurrency seem to make a lot more sense.

Dimon, who formerly served on the Board of Directors for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, also took a shot at his daughter for investing in the digital currency. “I’m not saying ‘go short Bitcoin and sell $100,000 of Bitcoin before it goes down,” he said. “This is not advice of what to do. My daughter bought Bitcoin, it went up and now she thinks she’s a genius.”

This has led some to speculate that the Wall Street tycoon is intentionally trying to drive down the price of Bitcoin. Whether that’s true or not, it’s hard to ignore the fact that Dimon’s past warnings against the cryptocurrency were typically followed by a significant spike in value.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-1 ... t-jpmorgan

"If You Are A Drug Dealer, A Murderer, Or..." Open An Account At JPMorgan

Sep 14, 2017 3:25 PM
Authored by Simon Black via SovereignMan.com,

On Tuesday afternoon, Jamie Dimon, the CEO of banking giant JP Morgan, let loose on Bitcoin.

He was speaking at the Barclays Financial Services conference, and when asked whether his bank employs any Bitcoin traders, he responded-

“If we had a trader who traded Bitcoin, I’d fire them in a second,” calling any trader who deals in the cryptocurrency “stupid”.

He went on to say that Bitcoin is a “fraud” and “won’t end well”.

Now, Dimon is a brilliant executive and banker. He knows his stuff. But… fraud? Really?

My dictionary defines fraud as “wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.”

That term seems to more aptly describe the banking industry that Dimon represents.

From Wells Fargo’s illegal opening of fake customer accounts to the constant manipulation of interest rates, exchange rates, and asset prices, outright FRAUD is standard practice among big banks.

Dimon also stated that Bitcoin is primarily appealing for criminals– “if you were a drug dealer, a murderer, stuff like that. . .”

Again, this is a totally baseless and confounding statement. 10+ million Bitcoin users are drawn to the cryptocurrency for a multitude of reasons.

For some, the fact that it is decentralized is a major factor. For others, it’s the low transaction cost.

Sending an international wire transfer through the banking system, for example, can take three days and cost $100. With Bitcoin it takes an hour and costs less than a dollar.

Sure, criminals might use Bitcoin. They also use Amazon.com gift cards and government bonds.

Ironically for Jamie Dimon, criminals even use JP Morgan bank accounts to launder their money, considering that the bank has paid BILLIONS in fines over the last few years for failing to detect their customers’ illegal activities.

To be fair, Dimon does raise a valid point about Bitcoin’s (and most major cryptocurrencies’) unbelievable price runups.

Bitcoin is up nearly 4x since the beginning of this year, and nearly 30x over the past four years.

That’s not supposed to happen. And it’s always precarious to buy or speculate in anything that’s at its all-time high.

Speculation is, after all, what’s driving most of this boom.

The original Bitcoin ‘White Paper’ from 2008 described the concept as a “peer-to-peer version of electronic cash” to “allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.”

In other words, Bitcoin was intended to be a medium of exchange for the digital world. Send money. Receive money. Buy things online. E-commerce.

That was a hell of an idea that makes a lot of sense.

But that’s not what Bitcoin is primarily being used for today.

Instead, Bitcoin is a source of speculation– people are buying something they don’t understand based purely on an expectation that the price will increase, at a time when the price is already near a record high.

Clearly such irrational behavior will create wild, violent, emotional price swings.

And that’s exactly what’s been going on over the last year. In fact Bitcoin’s price has fallen more than $1,000 (nearly 25%) just in the last few days.

Again, that’s not supposed to happen… not in an orderly market.

But this is not an orderly market.

There are too many mad speculators who think they’re geniuses for owning Bitcoin despite not knowing a hash from a block… yet they hold a extremists’ fanaticism that their prized asset will go up forever.

That’s ludicrous. Nothing goes up (or down) in a straight line. There will always be booms and busts. And the bigger the boom, the bigger the bust.

The key problem with the Bitcoin price is that it’s so difficult to determine what’s fair value.

Most other assets– stocks, bonds, real estate, etc. can be valued by some objective means.

If I want to buy a 5,000 square foot property that cost $650,000 to build, I at least have some basis of comparison to determine how much I’d be willing to pay.

Similarly, whenever I buy a private company, my analysts and I pour over the financial statements to determine its net asset value and see how much free cashflow the business generates.

Based on this analysis, we can come up with a bid.

Even currencies have certain indicators to determine whether they’re undervalued or overvalued.

The Economist, for example, routinely publishes its Big Mac Index to compare the price of a McDonald’s Big Mac around the world, and hence provide an objective valuation for currencies.

This is just one trivial example; the point is that there are countless ways to analyze various assets.

Bitcoin lacks most of those fundamentals. There’s no Big Mac Index for Bitcoin, no balance sheet or free cash flow.

One fundamental that stands out is “market cap,” i.e. the value of all Bitcoin currently in circulation.

Right now it’s about $60 billion, with a user base of more than 10 million [though a ton of those people are speculators and not real ‘users’].

By comparison the Danish krone currently has a market cap (i.e. M2 money supply) of $205 billion, yet a population of only 6 million people.

Gold has a market cap of roughly $7 trillion, over 100x the size of Bitcoin. And while gold also has no balance sheet or cash flow, it is owned by governments and central banks all over the world.

Whether Dimon likes it or not, Bitcoin is the future.

Our modern monetary system is based on an anachronistic 19th century idea of awarding unelected central bankers totalitarian authority over the money supply.

And our ‘modern’ banking system is a 13th century idea backed by mid-20th century technology.

It’s pretty pathetic, really.

Bitcoin, despite its flaws and mob of speculators, represents the first true advance in financial technology for the Digital Age.

This technology has endless possibilities to disrupt entrenched industries that have been screwing their customers for decades.

That fact alone makes it worth learning about.

User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 5523
Location: Sinope
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by iWriteStuff »

I thought this was a pretty interesting read:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bitcoi ... 2017-09-15
Bitcoin needs to be worth $1,000,000 to be a legitimate currency
Think bitcoin is in bubble territory? You ain’t seen nothing yet, says one cryptocurrency expert, who believes its value needs to surge by about 300 times over the next several years to be considered a legitimate currency or risk retreating into obscurity and obsolescence.

Bitcoin, the No. 1 cryptocurrency, has drawn outsize attention over its parabolic rise—and the recent, brutal plunge it has been enduring in recent trade.

Some market participants, however, make the case that despite its roughly 260% year-to-date rise BTCUSD, +7.40% it has to clear a far more stratospheric value hurdle to evolve into a practical form of money alongside fiat units like the U.S. dollar DXY, +0.36% Europe’s euro EURUSD, -0.1172% or British pound GBPUSD, -0.8387%

A single bitcoin was worth about $3,568 in recent trade, off lows of the past few days, according to data site Coindesk.com, amid regulatory headwinds in China and critical comments from Wall Street pros like J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.’s CEO Jamie Dimon.

Still, a bitcoin would need to be worth a stunning $1,000,000 to be a bona fide monetary unit, says Iqbal Gandham, U.K managing director at eToro, a trading platform.

In other words, the digital currency would need to see a 300 fold run-up from its current level. To be sure, Gandham isn’t making a prediction; though he believes the currency has the ability to scale such lofty levels, Gandham thinks that bitcoin needs to climb to such a level to be truly viable as a monetary unit.

To understand why is to understand the tiniest component of bitcoin—the Satoshi. Named after the purported creator of bitcoin, Satoshi Nakamoto. A Satoshi is equal to 0.00000001 bitcoin.

Put another way, one bitcoin contains 100 million Satoshis.

Satoshi’s value in dollars equated to $0.0000356819 at last check. Gandham argues that a Satoshi needs to be equivalent to a single penny, which it would when one bitcoin is worth $1,000,000.

“It is the Satoshi with which people will buy a cup of coffee,” Gandham told MarketWatch. He said using bitcoin now to purchase goods and services, as one would with dollars, isn’t feasible because bitcoin hasn’t reached the necessary economies of scale.


An actual Satoshi note that is redeemable for real money.
“People don’t use a bar of gold to buy things, they use subdivisions of gold,” he said, saying that using bitcoin now to purchase items is like using a bar of gold to purchase a beverage or a meal.

Gandham also said bitcoin really needs to get to that million-dollar mark in the next few years. Some are already wagering that it will get close: John McAfee, founder of his namesake antivirus software company says bitcoin is headed to the $500,000 level within three years.

“It needs to get there in the next few years if it is really going to work,” Gandham said. “People will only spend the subdivision of bitcoin—and you can only spend the subdivision—if they are of reasonable value,” he said.

Bitcoin has been in the buzzy consciousness of average folks for the better part of the past decade. Created at the height of the financial crisis, it has emerged for some as among the clearest alternatives to government-backed currencies.

Bitcoin bulls argue that much of the modern currency world is a product of a manufactured economy, in which central banks print money to boost economic growth, putting bitcoin and other digital currencies, like Ethereum, in position to be considered on par, if not better than, their fiat counterparts in terms of their economic utility.

Against the backdrop of easy-money policies, the Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA, +0.28% the S&P 500 index SPX, +0.08% and the Nasdaq Composite Index COMP, +0.15% are all at their highest levels in history, while the 10-year Treasury note TMUBMUSD10Y, +1.20% with prices moving inversely to yields, seeing yields near historic lows.


Jamie Dimon Calls Bitcoin 'a Fraud'
Because bitcoin is decentralized from central banks or governments, individuals can conduct transactions without an intermediary. That is part of the appeal of bitcoin.

What’s more, digital currencies are underpinned by the so-called blockchain, a digital ledger that cannot be altered. For many, the blockchain—the promise of and applications that can run atop these computerized ledgers, such as innovative ways to execute and record stock trades, document loans or track property records—are the most crucial and lucrative aspects of the digital-currency realm.

So far, the ambitions of bitcoin cheerleaders haven’t translated in to a killer application, as Apple Inc.’s AAPL, -0.66% founder Steve Jobs would say. Meanwhile, growing scrutiny over bitcoin activity in China and comments from Dimon, who called the currency a “fraud,” has proved the biggest drag on so-called cybercurrencies.

Vitalik Buterin, the creator of the No. 2 digital currency, Ether on Ethereum’s blockchain, recently sounded warnings about the current hype and rapid rise of digital currencies on financial site Financial Magnates.

“I indeed think that we are in a bubble because all the cryptocurrencies are rising and people have a feeling that they will always continue to rise. A lot of projects are raising more money than what they would be able to in the normal VC market, and sometimes there is no match between the necessity and usefulness of the project and its ability to raise money. Additionally, this market is still young and people still don’t know how to differentiate between projects that will exist in the long term and those that won’t.

If bitcoin, and other digital currencies, can surmount its obstacles, it could take off, says Gandham.

That is because there are finite number of bitcoins that can be digitally mined, as is done by “miners” using powerful computers solving complex problems to create the crypto units and support the blockchain infrastructure.

Only about 21.5 million bitcoins will ever exist, based on its underlying code. It is estimated that about 16 million bitcoins have been mined so far, with only a portion of those in current circulation. Market participants also estimate that bitcoins will max out in 2141, about 124 years from now.

That is a relatively tiny number of bitcoins for a currency with ambitions of being a global currency. That is also why the value of Satoshis carry such significance. By comparison, there are approximately 1.56 trillion Federal Reserve notes in circulation as of July 12, according to the Federal Reserve. There are about $13.6 trillion dollars in circulation, according to the Fed, as of August 2017.

While bitcoin cannot be increased once developers and miners hit the limit, Gandham says, subdivisions can be increased to, say, a conversion rate of 500,000,000 Satoshis to every one bitcoin, for example, greatly expanding the supply of Satoshis.

That level of growth may help smooth out bitcoin trading, and perhaps make it less volatile on a day-to-day and intraday basis.

“If bitcoin is at a million dollars the day-to-day valuation change will be insignificant to the actual value,” Gandham said.
If we get to this point where the value of crypto currencies is adaptable to daily use, then it becomes a lot more practical. Until then, it's got a long way to climb and needs to add utility by being accepted at more retail locations.

User avatar
iWriteStuff
blithering blabbermouth
Posts: 5523
Location: Sinope
Contact:

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by iWriteStuff »

Aaaaand here's a list of companies that accept Bitcoin:

https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@steemitgui ... currencies

Not all inclusive, I believe, but certainly interesting.

Silver
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5247

Re: Who knows about Bitcoin?

Post by Silver »

Some perspective on Jamie Dimon's rantings the other day.

Interesting article and other visuals at: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/explaini ... -cfa-caia/
Jamies Bitcoin.png
Jamies Bitcoin.png (151.11 KiB) Viewed 856 times

Post Reply