The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

You present ad mominem attacks. Ad what? Come on, you know that Joseph has merely pulled things out of the air, not out of scripture, because you cannot quote one verse that says Adam is our Father and God, not one. Neither can you quote one verse that says that Jesus is subservient to Adam. Not one without trying to quote either JS or BY. Let's see you find just one verse saying what you think it says without anyone elses opinions or input.
And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth. Ditto. Try saying things without Joseph's help. BTW, you need to offer truth before it can be used to persuade anyone.


The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands. You're on the wrong forum then, conducting the wrong choir...this is afterall, an LDS website last time I checked. Here, you will receive more truth than you will ever be willing to acknowledge.

So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. You first. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends. Truth does hurt doesn't it. Try answering some questions instead of either dodging them or replacing them with more questions as has already been pointed out to you.


But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be. False doctrine does stick in our craw, but as of yet, you can't figure that out. You just keep going and going and going hoping to gain some like minded individuals. Why else would you persist so relentlessly. Why can't you just concede and move on?

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me" Now on a pity party, are we? Why do you feel the need to be persecuted when it is only your doctrine that is problematic and vehemently rejected? Can you tell the difference?

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.

So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15

You are asking in the same spirit in which Christ was asked which is the greater Law.
you demand as though you have a right
and I have answered the question, you ignored it then.
And you ignore "Michael the archangel".
why should I cast my perls among ...

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow, the life giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in s remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegraye and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal. The ensign p. 5?6; First Presidency Message; President Spencer w. Kimbal; Absolute Truth; Sept 1978

Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)

“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

Jehovah and Michael are two distinct separate individuals, I already addressed this fact. People that attend the temple know this as truth...of whom are willing to really listen and not make up stories.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism. It's in the book!

That is good you know that, you've gotten at least part of it right.
Oh, but you are implying that I have taught otherwise aren't you?
Or that Brigham or Joseph taught that?
If you were to come right out and say that, it would be a bold face lye, but then you actually know that.
That is why you veil it.

[freedomforall]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.

So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15
[/quote]
You are asking in the same spirit in which Christ was asked which is the greater Law. Please keep your questions to a bare minimum, so that our answers can be more concise and to the point. Okay?
you demand as though you have a right. As if you don't? You preach Adam-God stuff as if there is no tomorrow. Try denying this observation of truth.
and I have answered the question, you ignored it then. No, you gave the wrong answer knowing scripture states clearly that he died. So, you agree with this?
And you ignore "Michael the archangel". Wrong, again, I said Adam is not God. Are you dyslexic?
why should I cast my perls among ... That would be "pearls", and it isn't among, it is before or unto. Go figure! SEE: JST, Matthew 7:10, and 3 Ne. 14:6

[freedomforall]

Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

Jehovah and Michael are two distinct separate individuals, I already addressed this fact. People that attend the temple know this as truth...of whom are willing to really listen and not make up stories.

That is good you know that, you've gotten at least part of it right. No, I am completely right no matter how much arguing you do, period.
Oh, but you are implying that I have taught otherwise aren't you? If the shoe fits.
Or that Brigham or Joseph taught that? The first quote is from BY, so yes.
If you were to come right out and say that, it would be a bold face lye, but then you actually know that. Let he who does not know English, know that to tell a lye is incorrect. The proper word is lie. If I were to come out and say that you teach that Michael is the same person as Jehovah, I would not be lying. It would be you either misinterpreting or denying my answer. Obviously not the same thing.
That is why you veil it. Just like you avoiding taking responsibility for your own thoughts by quoting everyone elses thoughts. And dodging giving answers or asking questions in place of answers. Gee, you've got this veil thing down pat, huh?[/quote]

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.

So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15
[/quote]
You are asking in the same spirit in which Christ was asked which is the greater Law. Please keep your questions to a bare minimum, so that our answers can be more concise and to the point. Okay?
you demand as though you have a right. As if you don't? You preach Adam-God stuff as if there is no tomorrow. Try denying this observation of truth.
and I have answered the question, you ignored it then. No, you gave the wrong answer knowing scripture states clearly that he died. So, you agree with this?
And you ignore "Michael the archangel". Wrong, again, I said Adam is not God. Are you dyslexic?
why should I cast my perls among ... That would be "pearls", and it isn't among, it is before or unto. Go figure! SEE: JST, Matthew 7:10, and 3 Ne. 14:6

Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

[freedomforall]

Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person

I was waiting for that, you did it again. The text does not contain a comma, you inserted it to make your false claim.
This is the second time for this nonsense.
Yahovah, Michae IS NOT THE SAME AS Yahovah Michael, completely different meanings.
It was explained before and you still change the text to make your false claims

[freedomforall]

Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person

I was waiting for that, you did it again. The text does not contain a comma, you inserted it to make your false claim.
This is the second time for this nonsense.
Yahovah, Michae IS NOT THE SAME AS Yahovah Michael, completely different meanings.
It was explained before and you still change the text to make your false claims

Get over it. If you already knew my answer, then all it was was another setup, of which I expect from you regularly. Having said this, my answer is correct. In the temple they say Jehovah, Michael, not Jehovah Michael. It is you that has things mixed up! Say all you want, but everyone attending the temple that truly listens will agree with me, not you.

Jehovah is not Michael.
God the Father is not Adam or Jehovah
If Jehovah and Michael were the same person we would hear, "I will go down..."
We do hear "WE will go down..."
Therefore, Adam cannot be Michael and God simultaneously. So there we have it.
Again, bye.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person

I was waiting for that, you did it again. The text does not contain a comma, you inserted it to make your false claim.
This is the second time for this nonsense.
Yahovah, Michae IS NOT THE SAME AS Yahovah Michael, completely different meanings.
It was explained before and you still change the text to make your false claims

Get over it. If you already knew my answer, then all it was was another setup, of which I expect from you regularly. Having said this, my answer is correct. In the temple they say Jehovah, Michael, not Jehovah Michael. It is you that has things mixed up! Say all you want, but everyone attending the temple that truly listens will agree with me, not you.

Jehovah is not Michael.
God the Father is not Adam or Jehovah
If Jehovah and Michael were the same person we would hear, "I will go down..."
We do hear "WE will go down..."
Therefore, Adam cannot be Michael and God simultaneously. So there we have it.
Again, bye.

I never said Jehovah is Michael, nor did Joseph and Brigham.
They did say, many many times that Adam, Michael and The Father of Jesus is our God.

[LoveIsTruth]

Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?

Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?

Ha ha. Nothing really.

The truth is you CANNOT answer this question truthfully without revealing how truly insane your position is!

All I can do is reveal what Joseph taught, but your reason to ask is not to know but to condemn. You know very well what my answer is, the only answer that is consistent with "Adam the archangel".

Say it. What is your answer? You are afraid to say it because it will reveal how utterly insane and contradictory to canonized scripture, including modern canonized scripture received directly through Joseph, your position really is!

For all to see, please say Did Adam die, as God said he would if he partook of the fruit, or not?

[larsenb]

I thought I had posted the following earlier, but can't find the post. It may have been wiped out by the recent crash or difficulties of the forum site.

It is an interview between Stephan Molyneux and Dr. Duke Pesta on the “The Myth of the Noble Savage” at https://youtu.be/aBUYAzet-Fo

Excellent discussion, IMHO. Of course, it gets into Dryden, Hobbs, Rousseau, etc., but also gets into the importance to our civilization of the fundamental concepts of Christianity and the Fall, etc.

Long and somewhat tedious, but I think you would enjoy Pesta’s point of view. Molyneux tags himself as being against religion in other podcasts, but Pesta couches his arguments in a way that doesn’t give Stephan much wiggle room.

Pesta’s viewpoint (along w/Molyneux) really illuminates how the present-day, Leftist orientation of our current young-person crop is sadly lacking, deficient and wrong-headed.

[BeNotDeceived]

For all to see, please say Did Adam die, as God said he would if he partook of the fruit, or not?

Your link no-good.

j/k, the underline made me think it were a thread; what a can of worms that would be.

[LoveIsTruth]

j/k, the underline made me think it were a thread; what a can of worms that would be.

Sorry, not a link. Simply to emphasize for our friend Hidingbehind

[freedomforall]

The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

2 Nephi 2:22,23
22 And now, behold,
if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, Pretty explanatory, right?
but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. To me this means he and Eve would have remained in the garden forever
And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; No change
and they must have remained forever, just like I conveyed above
and had no end. Now pay close attention to this, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; they cannot procreate because it the drive to do so was not in them. Nor were they mortal so she could never conceive children.
wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, stuck in a place by themselves forever
having no joy, for they knew no misery; self explanatory, right?
doing no good, their minds were as little children nearly void of any reasoning. The fall provided what they needed to multiply and replenish the earth as commanded.
for they knew no sin. No right or wrong or anything in between.

Here is Eve telling us her side:

Moses 5:11
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

Adam and Eve could not produce seed, ever, until their fall. This next verse explains what took place:

Moses 5:25
Adam fell that men might be; This is a true statement that children could not be conceived until after the fall.
and men are, after the fall men came about
that they might have joy. self explanatory, right?

More info:

Fall of Adam and Eve

The process by which mankind became mortal on this earth. The event is recorded in Gen. 2–4 and Moses 3–4. The Fall of Adam and Eve is one of the most important occurrences in the history of man. Before the Fall, there were no sin, no death, and no children. With the eating of the “forbidden fruit,” Adam and Eve became mortal, sin entered, and death became a part of life. Adam became the “first flesh” upon the earth (Moses 3:7), meaning that he and Eve were the first to become mortal. After Adam fell, the whole creation fell and became mortal. Adam’s Fall brought both physical and spiritual death into the world upon all mankind (Hel. 14:16–17).

The Fall was no surprise to the Lord. It was a necessary step in the progress of man, and provisions for a Savior had been made even before the Fall had occurred. Jesus Christ came to atone for the Fall of Adam and also for man’s individual sins.

Latter-day revelation supports the biblical account of the Fall, showing that it was a historical event that literally occurred in the history of man. Many points in latter-day revelation are also clarified that are not discernible from the Bible. Among other things it makes clear that the Fall is a blessing and that Adam and Eve should be honored in their station as the first parents of the earth. Significant references are 2 Ne. 2:15–26; 9:6–21; Mosiah 3:11–16; Alma 22:12–14; 42:2–15; D&C 29:34–44; Moses 5:9–13. See also Flesh.

[freedomforall]

j/k, the underline made me think it were a thread; what a can of worms that would be.

Sorry, not a link. Simply to emphasize for our friend Hidingbehind

What is he hiding from, anyway?

[LoveIsTruth]

Your main mistakes are as follows (I left them from your quote):

23 And they would have had no children; they cannot procreate because it the drive to do so was not in them. Nor were they mortal so she could never conceive children.
doing no good, their minds were as little children nearly void of any reasoning. The fall provided what they needed to multiply and replenish the earth as commanded.

Adam and Eve could not produce seed, ever, until their fall. This next verse explains what took place:

Moses 5:25
Adam fell that men might be; This is a true statement that children could not be conceived until after the fall.

And I addressed each one in the OP.

So if you wish for me to respond:

• first find my explanation of that point in the OP, then
  give me your rebuttal to my explanation.

Then I will respond to that. But if you ignore my points to begin with, we have nothing to discuss.

Thanks my friend.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow blood, the life-giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal, subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in a remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegrate and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal.
Ensign Sept. 1978 First Presidency Message Absolute Truth By President Spencer W. Kimball

Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)

“One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God… [and] Our God and Father in heaven… When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! About whom holy men have written and spoken – He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do… I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone… Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the Garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told… Treasure up these things in your hearts.” (JD 1: 50-51, CAPITALS in the original.)

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see, The Essential Brigham Young, pg. 99)

Adam and Eve, as Celestial beings, without blood but a finer substance, the offspring produced are made of that finer substance, spirit bodies for their spirit children. But in coming to the earth and eating of the fruits of a fallen world containing the seeds of death, the offspring they produced were made of the material of this earth containing those seeds of death. Thus creating mortal bodies for their spirit children. An interesting note, the materials of the earth already contained the seeds of death before Adam and Eve partook of it.

These are eternal truths taught by Joseph, Brigham, even Pres. Kimball. If you criticize these teachings, you are criticizing the Lords anointed.
And that reflects on your character not theirs. They all died with their testimony of these things intact. And not just them, many many more knew
and taught these things. To kick against these things does them no harm. To kick against these things does no harm to those who taught them.
To kick against these things is to demonstrate enmity towards God and his anointed. To kick against these things is to show contempt for eternal truths.

I will continue to testify of the things taught by Joseph and Brigham and others, true messengers from My Father as those that criticize, insult, mock and belittle bare the messages from their father.

[LoveIsTruth]

Still have not the guts to answer my question again: Did Adam die?

But before you did say that Adam did not die. Well that makes God a liar according to Alma and Joseph who translated Alma's words:

• 
  "And now behold, I say unto you that if it had been possible for Adam to have partaken of the fruit of the tree of life at that time, there would have been no death, and the word would have been void, making God a liar, for he said: If thou eat thou shalt surely die." (Alma 12:23)

Moreover God said:

• "And unto Adam, I, the Lord God, said: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the fruit of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying—Thou shalt not eat of it, cursed shall be the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
  Thorns also, and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat the herb of the field.
  By the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, until thou shalt return unto the ground—for thou shalt surely die—for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou wast, and unto dust shalt thou return." ( Moses 4:23-25 )

So if you think Joseph told you this lunacy, that Adam did not die, fine: Which Joseph are you going to trust:

• 1) the one who gave you the words of God in canonized modern-day scripture, approved by all the general authorities of the church, and the church as a whole, according to the unfailing pattern that God established,

or

• 2) Joseph's personal opinion, that contradicts the scriptures and the word of God established in point (1), the personal opinion that Joseph himself told you could be wrong, and that supposed opinion that was officially condemned as false doctrine by Spencer W. Kimball in 1976?

Which Joseph are you going to trust?

The one that God told you (and the whole Church) to trust (1), or the one that God officially (by the moth of Joseph himself, and Spence W. Kimball) told you NOT to trust.

You must decide.

But if you have any Spirit left in you, you should choose Joseph (1), and not supposed "Joseph" (2). Because make no mistake (2) is in stark contradiction to (1)! They both cannot be true. So you must choose one.

(1) Says that Adam did die, as God said.
(2) Says that Adam did not die, making God a liar according to scriptures in (1).

So which JOSEPH are you going to trust?

Because both CANNOT be true, because they are in direct opposition.

I chose (1) because God told me, and the whole Church, that it is the correct one.

You can delude yourself all you want, but you will have to make the choice. And you already chose (2) that directly contradicts (1). But in this you have judged yourself.

And you have chosen wrong.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Are you asserting that there are absolutely no errors in any of the cannon of scripture
and therefore any discrepancy are lies, even possible lies from God?

Or is it possible that there are errors in the cannon of scripture
due to miss translation, errors in copying, intentional changes, etc.
Or is it possible that some things in the scriptures are parables or similitudes
designed to withhold as much as to reveal.

Do you reject the JST? But he didn't correct the whole bible.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Here is an error in the New Testament
Since it is pointed out by Joseph Smith, I expect that you will criticize and ridicule it, but he is corrected
And it is supported by others.

I will say something about the spirits in prison. There has been much
said by modern divines about the words of Jesus (when on the cross) to the
thief, saying, "This day shalt thou be with me in paradise." King James'
translators make it out to say paradise. But what is paradise? It is a
modern word it does not answer at all to the original word that Jesus made
use of. Find the original of the word paradise. You may as easily find a
needle in a haymow. Here is a chance for battle, ye learned men. There is
nothing in the original word in Greek froze which this was taken that
signifies paradise; but it was This day thou shalt be with me in the
world of spirits' then I will teach you all about it and answer your
inquiries. And Peter says he went and preached to the world of spirits
(spirits in prison, I Peter, 3rd chap., 19th verse), so that they who
would receive it could have it answered by proxy by those who live on the
earth, etc.
History of the Church, Vol 5, p424
Joseph smith's Teachings p166-167

I will now turn linguist. There are many things in the Bible which do
not, as they now stand, accord with the revelations of the Holy Ghost to
me.
I will criticize a little further. There has been much said about the
word hell, and the sectarian world have preached much about it, describing
it to be a burning lake of fire and brimstone. But what is hell? It is
another modern term, and is taken from hades. I'll hunt after hades as Pat
did for the woodchuck.
Hades, the Greek, or Shaole, the Hebrew' these two significations
mean a world of spirits. Hades, Shaole, paradise, spirits in prison, are
all one: it is a world of spirits.
The righteous and the wicked all go to the same world of spirits
until the resurrection. "I do not think so," says one. If you will go to
my house any time, I will take my lexicon and prove it to you.
History of the Curch Vol 5, p425
Joseph Smith's Teachings p184-186

JD 1:9 Parley P. Pratt, April 7, 1853
Where then does the spirit go, on its departure from its earthly
tabernacle? It passes to the next sphere of human existence, called the
world of spirits, a vail being drawn between us in the flesh, and that
world of spirits. Well, says one, is there no more than one place in
the spirit world? Yes, there are many places and degrees in that
world, as in this. Jesus Christ, when absent from his flesh, did not
ascend to the Father, to be crowned, and enthroned in power. Why?
Because he had not yet a resurrected body, and had therefore a
mission to perform in another sphere. Where then did he go? To
the world of spirits, to wicked, sinful spirits, who died in their sins,
being swept off by the flood of Noah. The thief on the cross, who died
at the same time, also went to the same world, and to the same
particular place in the same world, for he was a sinner, and would of
course go to the prison of the condemned, there to await the ministry
of that Gospel which had failed to reach his case while on the earth.

JD 1:9 Parley P. Pratt, April 7, 1853
How many other places Jesus might have visited while in the spirit
world is not for me to say, but there was a moment in which the
poor, uncultivated, ignorant thief was with him in that world. And
as he commenced, though late, to repent while on the earth, we have
reason to hope that that moment was improved by our Saviour, in
ministering to him that Gospel which he had no opportunity to teach
to him, while expiring on the cross. "This day shalt thou be with me in
Paradise," said Jesus, or, in other words, this day shalt thou be with
me in the next sphere of existence - the world of spirits.

JD 17:136 George Q. Cannon, July 19, 1874
"O how great the goodness of our God, who prepareth a way for our
escape from the grasp of this awful monster; yea; that monster, death
and hell, which I call the death of the body, and also the death of the
spirit. And because of the way of the deliverance of our God, the Holy
One of Israel, this death of which I have spoken, which is the temporal
shall deliver up its dead; which death is the grave. And this death of
which I have spoken, which is the spiritual death, shall deliver up its
dead; which spiritual death is hell; wherefore, death and hell must
deliver up their dead, and hell must deliver up its captive spirits, and
the grave must deliver up its captive bodies, and the bodies and
spirits of men will be restored one to the other; and it is by the power
of the Holy One of Israel.

JD 21:223 Charles W. Penrose, August 8th, 1880
"And this death of which I have spoken, which is the spiritual death,
shall deliver up its dead; which spiritual death is hell; wherefore
death and hell must deliver up its captive spirits and the grave must
deliver up its captive bodies, and the bodies and the spirits of men
will be restored one to the other; and it is by the power of the
resurrection of the Holy One of Israel.

[Thinker]

I interpret that Adam & Eve story as a parable to be likened to us, not literally.

The fruit represents
1. free agency - essential to God's plan - and also
2. a degree of spiritual birth (eyes being opened to discern) - also essential to God's plan.

There was no other way, in that sense.

Still, as symbolic parables, you could look at it from many different angles & liken it to us individually and in relationships.

[LoveIsTruth]

Are you asserting that there are absolutely no errors in any of the cannon of scripture
and therefore any discrepancy are lies, even possible lies from God?

Or is it possible that there are errors in the cannon of scripture
due to miss translation, errors in copying, intentional changes, etc.
Or is it possible that some things in the scriptures are parables or similitudes
designed to withhold as much as to reveal.

Do you reject the JST? But he didn't correct the whole bible.

Joseph said that there is no error in the published revelations that he taught, i.e. canonized modern day scriptures approved by the church.

So my reasoning still applies. That's Joseph (1) and it contradicts what you claim is Joseph(2) (i.e. officially condemned interpretations of personal opinions of prophets, that even Joseph himself admitted are liable to be wrong).

Will you follow the prophets? Because right now, you don't. You do not believe even Joseph himself, and hold to the insanity of regarding each word he was reported to say as the words of God. He told you NO. But you don't believe him! Wow, man!

So what I said still stands: Which "Joseph" are you going to follow, because you cannot follow both. They contradict each-other.

The only sane, non-self-contradictory answer is (1).

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

D&C 129:1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

a combining form meaning “chief, leader, ruler,” used in the formation of compound words: monarch; matriarch; heresiarch. Origin of -arch. Greek.

It comes from the GREEK archos. From this basic meaning it is associated with chief or head or king or origin in one way or another. You can make many words with ARCH, from ARCHbishop to ARCHfoe, from ARCHfriend to ARCHilar.

Do you deny that Adam is Michael?
Do you deny that Michael is the archangle?
Do you deny that Michael is the King angel?
Do you deny that Michael has a body of flesh and bones?
Do you deny that Michael is the King resurrected personage?

Even before the Garden, he was Michael the archangel, the King Resurrected being. Do you Deny it?

Then you deny the cannon of scripture.

[LoveIsTruth]

Do you deny that Adam is Michael?

No.

Do you deny that Michael is the archangle?

No.

Do you deny that Michael is the King angel?

No.

Do you deny that Michael has a body of flesh and bones?

Now he does, after he was resurrected, AFTER Jesus rose from the dead, because Jesus was "first to rise."

Before that Adam was very dead: spirit and body separated as God promised "unto dust shall thou return." Which Adam did.

Do you deny that Michael is the King resurrected personage?

Now he is. But he is a Prince under Jesus: "Who hath appointed Michael your prince" (D&C 78:16 )

Even before the Garden, he was Michael the archangel, the King Resurrected being. Do you Deny it?

Yes. Because resurrected beings do not die. They CANNOT die. Adam however did die, according to the words of God in all the books of canonized modern day scripture revealed through Prophet Joseph Smith. Book of Mormon says it emphatically. D&C says it. Perle of Great Price says it.

So yes, I deny it, because it contradicts the words of God himself in all these sacred books.

Then you deny the cannon of scripture.

No, you do.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Do you deny that Adam is Michael?

No.

Do you deny that Michael is the archangle?

No.

Do you deny that Michael is the King angel?

No.

Do you deny that Michael has a body of flesh and bones?

Now he does, after he was resurrected, AFTER Jesus rose from the dead, because Jesus was "first to rise."

Before that Adam was very dead: spirit and body separated as God promised "unto dust shall thou return." Which Adam did.

Do you deny that Michael is the King resurrected personage?

Now he is. But he is a Prince under Jesus: "Who hath appointed Michael your prince" (D&C 78:16 )

Even before the Garden, he was Michael the archangel, the King Resurrected being. Do you Deny it?

Yes. Because resurrected beings do not die. They CANNOT die. Adam however did die, according to the words of God in all the books of canonized modern day scripture revealed through Prophet Joseph Smith.

So yes, I deny it, because it contradicts the words of God himself.

Then you deny the cannon of scripture.

No, you do.

He was the archangel even before the garden, He went into the Garden as a resurrected being.
The scriptures confirm that.