Mysteries of the Kingdom

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

The official Canonized Scripture of the Church is determined by the Law of Common Consent.
The First Presidency and the Quorum of Apostles come to agreement.
Then the First Presidency, through their chosen mouth piece, present it at General Conference for a sustaining vote.

There it is, in simple black and white, no seeking special guidance to understand or anything else.
Its is just the way Christ determined his church would function - through Common Consent.

So I'm sure someone is going to ask "How does the First Pres. and the quorum come to agreement?"
The answer is, I don't know, they don't tell us much about that. But The scriptures tell us how they
should.
"Seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened up unto you"
But know this, Joseph holds the keys to (the right to preside over) this dispensation.
So what ever happens, it is sure to involve him, and possibly Christ also.

[simpleton]

And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been.

29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.

30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.

[HappyCamper8]

Sorry, I'm pretty dense. I don't understand your answer. You will have to talk to me like the idiot I am. I think you are trying to say it subtly but I don't understand. Could you give me the answers plainly to these questions?

Who decided what is Holy Writ? Where did God say Songs of Solomon is Holy Writ, or Matthew is Holy Writ, or Alma is Holy Writ? If not God, who did?

At some point, you have to figure it out for yourself. Unless God tells you, it's just some guy telling you that some other guy said God said so.

This is really what I'm trying to say. Thanks.
In other words, scripture can't say scripture is true. (Well it can, but doesn't actually prove it.) If so, other religions could present their scripture and show where it says their scripture is true, because it says it is.

The only way to really know is to have God tell you.

The same goes for ALL theory, doctrine, scripture, ideas etc... Doesn't really matter if it's in canon or not. If something is not in canon, it could still be true. The only way to REALLY know is to have God tell you.

Joseph Smith History
12 ...for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.

13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture.

It's funny how we see the same today even in the LDS church and the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, General Conference etc...

[freedomforall]

What is sad is that I revel in the words of Joseph and Brigham and you deny them.

I'm greatly saddened for your loss.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

What is sad is that I revel in the words of Joseph and Brigham and you deny them.

I'm greatly saddened for your loss.

Your sincerity escapes me.
If you actually were sincere,
you would pay them the respect
they deserve. You would at least
not mock them, and maybe not
even ignore them.

Mockery is one of the lowest
forms of human behavior.
Right there with those the Savior
called a pit of vipers. And like
them, Abraham is not the father
of mockers.

You feel you have to mock me, ok. But
God shall not be mocked.
God's anointed shall not be mocked.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him.
(Brigham Young JD 1: 50-51)

When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.”
(Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

I thought I might elaborate a little on what this means to me in terms of Creation/Evolution.

There was never a time when there was not a man on a world working out his salvation. There was never a First Adam. There was never a First Christ. There was never a first man to work out his salvation. There was never a First Man.

Adam and Eve were celestial immortal personages when they came to the garden. They were created from the dusts of the world on which they worked out their salvation. Adam brought all the animals to this world from another world when he came. There were no animals created on this world that did not exist on another world. All life on this world are the descendants of life from another world. This world follows the pattern of all the worlds that came before it. It is the same pattern that all worlds yet to be created will use.

There was no First Man.
There was no First tiger.
There was no First cow.
There was no First elephant.
There was no First horse.
There was no First pig.
There was no First lion.
There was no First dog.
There was no First cat.
There was no First flower.
There was no First tree.
There was no First grass.
There was no First ever of life of any kind.
...


Due to the seeds of death on a fallen world, there are many anomalies caused by disobedience of the intelligences that make up the bodies of Man, animals, and plants. There are changes due to the meddling of men. But none of these will be passed on to the next world.
Adam was a best example of Man to be selected to come and populate this earth. And he did nothing less by bringing only the best possible examples of all other life to populate this world.

[freedomforall]

When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him.
(Brigham Young JD 1: 50-51)

When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.”
(Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

I thought I might elaborate a little on what this means to me in terms of Creation/Evolution. This stuff makes a direct mockery of scripture. Don't be taken in by this crap!

There was never a time when there was not a man on a world working out his salvation. There was never a First Adam. There was never a First Christ. There was never a first man to work out his salvation. There was never a First Man.

Adam and Eve were celestial immortal personages when they came to the garden. They were created from the dusts of the world on which they worked out their salvation. Adam brought all the animals to this world from another world when he came. There were no animals created on this world that did not exist on another world. All life on this world are the descendants of life from another world. This world follows the pattern of all the worlds that came before it. It is the same pattern that all worlds yet to be created will use.

There was no First Man. Lie

Moses 3:7
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

There was no First tiger.
There was no First cow.
There was no First elephant.
There was no First horse.
There was no First pig.
There was no First lion.
There was no First dog.
There was no First cat.
There was no First flower.
There was no First tree.
There was no First grass.
There was no First ever of life of any kind. All a lie. To say these things is to deny scripture where we read just the opposite.
...


Due to the seeds of death on a fallen world, there are many anomalies caused by disobedience of the intelligences that make up the bodies of Man, animals, and plants. There are changes due to the meddling of men. But none of these will be passed on to the next world.
Adam was a best example of Man to be selected to come and populate this earth. And he did nothing less by bringing only the best possible examples of all other life to populate this world. Is God a liar?

Why, oh why are we stuck on the same ridiculous story? Can't better material be found?
It is said by a very minute quantity of people that this nonsense is fact, having been taken in by so-called doctrine not proven to be doctrine in the first place, and from a no name author too darned afraid to reveal his own name, written in a book that is not even authorized by the LDS church leadership, is not official doctrine and has never, even to this day, become canon; so far, the church has denounced such doctrine or it would have been accepted years ago. Yet it is assumed that church leaders would okay this book and its resources as if the person claiming this assumption must feel they are clairvoyant enough to state such a claim. Then he turns around and says church leadership will not be mocked, only referring to those in leadership from 187 years ago, and then making a big decision for those leaders of today that haven't even been asked by this person, and apparently no one else either. Why else would an author hide his true identity? =)) =)) =))

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him.
(Brigham Young JD 1: 50-51)

When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.”
(Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

I thought I might elaborate a little on what this means to me in terms of Creation/Evolution. This stuff makes a direct mockery of scripture. Don't be taken in by this crap!

There was never a time when there was not a man on a world working out his salvation. There was never a First Adam. There was never a First Christ. There was never a first man to work out his salvation. There was never a First Man.

Adam and Eve were celestial immortal personages when they came to the garden. They were created from the dusts of the world on which they worked out their salvation. Adam brought all the animals to this world from another world when he came. There were no animals created on this world that did not exist on another world. All life on this world are the descendants of life from another world. This world follows the pattern of all the worlds that came before it. It is the same pattern that all worlds yet to be created will use.

There was no First Man. Lie

Moses 3:7
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

There was no First tiger.
There was no First cow.
There was no First elephant.
There was no First horse.
There was no First pig.
There was no First lion.
There was no First dog.
There was no First cat.
There was no First flower.
There was no First tree.
There was no First grass.
There was no First ever of life of any kind. All a lie. To say these things is to deny scripture where we read just the opposite.
...


Due to the seeds of death on a fallen world, there are many anomalies caused by disobedience of the intelligences that make up the bodies of Man, animals, and plants. There are changes due to the meddling of men. But none of these will be passed on to the next world.
Adam was a best example of Man to be selected to come and populate this earth. And he did nothing less by bringing only the best possible examples of all other life to populate this world. Is God a liar?

Why, oh why are we stuck on the same ridiculous story? Can't better material be found?
It is said by a very minute quantity of people that this nonsense is fact, having been taken in by so-called doctrine not proven to be doctrine in the first place, and from a no name author too darned afraid to reveal his own name, written in a book that is not even authorized by the LDS church leadership, is not official doctrine and has never, even to this day, become canon; so far, the church has denounced such doctrine or it would have been accepted years ago. Yet it is assumed that church leaders would okay this book and its resources as if the person claiming this assumption must feel they are clairvoyant enough to state such a claim. Then he turns around and says church leadership will not be mocked, only referring to those in leadership from 187 years ago, and then making a big decision for those leaders of today that haven't even been asked by this person, and apparently no one else either. Why else would an author hide his true identity? =)) =)) =))

You do your self a disservice here sir, I did not say that there was no first man on this world, for that is clearly Adam.
What I said is that the was no first man in all of eternity.

You are so full of prejudice and anger that you don't comprehend common english or follow simple logic.
Or is it that you follow after Zeezorum? That you actually do know but will purposely twist things in order
to accomplish your goals.

You mock me and the prophets.
You lie about what I've said.

It has been said,
Don't attribute to malice that which can easily subscribed to ignorance.
This lie can not be easily subscribed to ignorance.

It is blatant, the post does not say that there was not a first man on this world yet you pathetically claim I lie by quoting script saying first flesh upon the earth.

You have exposed yourself as a liar.
Again, it is you that makes mockery of me and the Lord's anointed.

[freedomforall]

When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him.
(Brigham Young JD 1: 50-51)

When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.”
(Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

I thought I might elaborate a little on what this means to me in terms of Creation/Evolution. This stuff makes a direct mockery of scripture. Don't be taken in by this crap!

There was never a time when there was not a man on a world working out his salvation. There was never a First Adam. There was never a First Christ. There was never a first man to work out his salvation. There was never a First Man.

Adam and Eve were celestial immortal personages when they came to the garden. They were created from the dusts of the world on which they worked out their salvation. Adam brought all the animals to this world from another world when he came. There were no animals created on this world that did not exist on another world. All life on this world are the descendants of life from another world. This world follows the pattern of all the worlds that came before it. It is the same pattern that all worlds yet to be created will use.

There was no First Man. Lie

Moses 3:7
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

There was no First tiger.
There was no First cow.
There was no First elephant.
There was no First horse.
There was no First pig.
There was no First lion.
There was no First dog.
There was no First cat.
There was no First flower.
There was no First tree.
There was no First grass.
There was no First ever of life of any kind. All a lie. To say these things is to deny scripture where we read just the opposite.
...


Due to the seeds of death on a fallen world, there are many anomalies caused by disobedience of the intelligences that make up the bodies of Man, animals, and plants. There are changes due to the meddling of men. But none of these will be passed on to the next world.
Adam was a best example of Man to be selected to come and populate this earth. And he did nothing less by bringing only the best possible examples of all other life to populate this world. Is God a liar?

Why, oh why are we stuck on the same ridiculous story? Can't better material be found?
It is said by a very minute quantity of people that this nonsense is fact, having been taken in by so-called doctrine not proven to be doctrine in the first place, and from a no name author too darned afraid to reveal his own name, written in a book that is not even authorized by the LDS church leadership, is not official doctrine and has never, even to this day, become canon; so far, the church has denounced such doctrine or it would have been accepted years ago. Yet it is assumed that church leaders would okay this book and its resources as if the person claiming this assumption must feel they are clairvoyant enough to state such a claim. Then he turns around and says church leadership will not be mocked, only referring to those in leadership from 187 years ago, and then making a big decision for those leaders of today that haven't even been asked by this person, and apparently no one else either. Why else would an author hide his true identity? =)) =)) =))

You do your self a disservice here sir, I did not say that there was no first man on this world, for that is clearly Adam.
What I said is that the was no first man in all of eternity.

You are so full of prejudice and anger that you don't comprehend common english or follow simple logic.
Or is it that you follow after Zeezorum? That you actually do know but will purposely twist things in order
to accomplish your goals.

You mock me and the prophets.
You lie about what I've said.

It has been said,
Don't attribute to malice that which can easily subscribed to ignorance.
This lie can not be easily subscribed to ignorance.

It is blatant, the post does not say that there was not a first man on this world yet you pathetically claim I lie by quoting script saying first flesh upon the earth.

You have exposed yourself as a liar.
Again, it is you that makes mockery of me and the Lord's anointed.

Only in your mind. I don't want people to be taken in by this nonsense. Call me what you will as a devout Christian. It is a lie that there was no first man anywhere.

Moses 1:34
34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

Not many Adams, but many men.

Abr. 1:3
3 It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.

D&C 27:11
11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;

D&C 76:24
24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds (plural) are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.

Adam is the father of all mankind, even other worlds. He is not the Majesty on High or Father God

D&C 138:38
38 Among the great and mighty ones who were assembled in this vast congregation of the righteous were Father Adam, the Ancient of Days and father of all,

Moses 4:26
26 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.

Moses 6:9
9 In the image of his own body, male and female, created he them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created and became living souls in the land upon the footstool of God.

God created many worlds besides this one, yet Adam is the first man

Moses 1:33
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

Moses 7:30 (29–31)
29 And Enoch said unto the Lord: How is it that thou canst weep, seeing thou art holy, and from all eternity to all eternity?
30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;
31 And thou hast taken Zion to thine own bosom, from all thy creations, from all eternity to all eternity; and naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end; how is it thou canst weep?

There was a first man. So don't call me a liar. Got it?

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Only in your mind. I don't want people to be taken in by this nonsense. Call me what you will as a devout Christian. It is a lie that there was no first man anywhere.

Moses 1:34
34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

Not many Adams, but many men.

Abr. 1:3
3 It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.

D&C 27:11
11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;

D&C 76:24
24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds (plural) are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.

Adam is the father of all mankind, even other worlds. He is not the Majesty on High or Father God

D&C 138:38
38 Among the great and mighty ones who were assembled in this vast congregation of the righteous were Father Adam, the Ancient of Days and father of all,

Moses 4:26
26 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.

Moses 6:9
9 In the image of his own body, male and female, created he them, and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created and became living souls in the land upon the footstool of God.

God created many worlds besides this one, yet Adam is the first man

Moses 1:33
33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

Moses 7:30 (29–31)
29 And Enoch said unto the Lord: How is it that thou canst weep, seeing thou art holy, and from all eternity to all eternity?
30 And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever;
31 And thou hast taken Zion to thine own bosom, from all thy creations, from all eternity to all eternity; and naught but peace, justice, and truth is the habitation of thy throne; and mercy shall go before thy face and have no end; how is it thou canst weep?

There was a first man. So don't call me a liar. Got it?

Like I have said, you mock the prophets.
You call their words nonsense.

All the scriptures you quote apply to this world.
This temporal world had a beginning and as a temporal world will have an ending.
where there is a beginning there is a first and where there is an ending there is a last.

In eternity, there is no beginning and there is no end.
where there is no beginning there is no first and where there is no ending there is no last.

Spirits are co eternal with God, they can not be created and they can not be destroyed.
There was no first Man in eternity, all who exists have always existed and ever will.
"Man is as God once was, God is as Man may become"
Do you believe this?
If you believe that there was a first man in eternity, then you believe that there was a First God in Eternity.
How did he become a God?
He was the first one, who exalted him?
Who was his father to inherit immortality from?
Did he just spontaneously erupt as a God?
Then he did not have to work out his salvation.
If he did not have to work out his salvation, why do we?

Eternity is Eternity, it has no beginning and it has no end.
There has always existed a world populated with man by an Adam and saved by a Christ.
There always will existed a world populated with man by an Adam and saved by a Christ.
To say otherwise is to mock the Eternal Gods.
To say otherwise is to mock the the prophets that reveal the Eternal Gods.

Are you ignorant of this or do you lie?

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation."
-Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

My words are true, I repeat what the Lords anointed has said.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation."
-Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

My words are true, I repeat what the Lords anointed has said.

There was no First Man.
There was no First Christ.
There was no First Adam.
There was no First Elohim.
This is the progression of ALL men.
It is no mystery.
It has not been withheld.
Brigham proclaimed it.

[freedomforall]

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation."
-Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

My words are true, I repeat what the Lords anointed has said.

There was no First Man.
There was no First Christ.
There was no First Adam.
There was no First Elohim.
This is the progression of ALL men.
It is no mystery.
It has not been withheld.
Brigham proclaimed it.

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

This commandment applies to anyone teaching other what what canon reveals to us, even prophets when not speaking as a prophet. Best heed it.

[freedomforall]

Joseph was wrong? seriously? he SAW visions and had Angels minister to him.. if anything more of the recent leaders are wrong about THEIR interpretation of scripture.

Tell us, was Joseph Smith wrong in declaring himself the only man that has done more in keeping the church together, even more-so than Jesus?

https://carm.org/joseph-smith-boasted

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Alma 12:9
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.

This commandment applies to anyone teaching other what what canon reveals to us, even prophets when not speaking as a prophet. Best heed it.

1 Now Alma, seeing that the words of Amulek had silenced Zeezrom, for he beheld that Amulek had caught him in his lying and deceiving to destroy him, and seeing that he began to tremble under a consciousness of his guilt, he opened his mouth and began to speak unto him, and to establish the words of Amulek, and to explain things beyond, or to unfold the scriptures beyond that which Amulek had done.
2 Now the words that Alma spake unto Zeezrom were heard by the people round about; for the multitude was great, and he spake on this wise:
3 Now Zeezrom, seeing that thou hast been taken in thy lying and craftiness, for thou hast not lied unto men only but thou hast lied unto God; for behold, he knows all thy thoughts, and thou seest that thy thoughts are made known unto us by his Spirit;
4 And thou seest that we know that thy plan was a very subtle plan, as to the subtlety of the devil, for to lie and to deceive this people that thou mightest set them against us, to revile us and to cast us out—
5 Now this was a plan of thine adversary, and he hath exercised his power in thee. Now I would that ye should remember that what I say unto thee I say unto all.
6 And behold I say unto you all that this was a snare of the adversary, which he has laid to catch this people, that he might bring you into subjection unto him, that he might encircle you about with his chains, that he might chain you down to everlasting destruction, according to the power of his captivity.
7 Now when Alma had spoken these words, Zeezrom began to tremble more exceedingly, for he was convinced more and more of the power of God; and he was also convinced that Alma and Amulek had a knowledge of him, for he was convinced that they knew the thoughts and intents of his heart; for power was given unto them that they might know of these things according to the spirit of prophecy.
8 And Zeezrom began to inquire of them diligently, that he might know more concerning the kingdom of God. And he said unto Alma: What does this mean which Amulek hath spoken concerning the resurrection of the dead, that all shall rise from the dead, both the just and the unjust, and are brought to stand before God to be judged according to their works?
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.
10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.
12 And Amulek hath spoken plainly concerning death, and being raised from this mortality to a state of immortality, and being brought before the bar of God, to be judged according to our works.
13 Then if our hearts have been hardened, yea, if we have hardened our hearts against the word, insomuch that it has not been found in us, then will our state be awful, for then we shall be condemned.
14 For our words will condemn us, yea, all our works will condemn us; we shall not be found spotless; and our thoughts will also condemn us; and in this awful state we shall not dare to look up to our God; and we would fain be glad if we could command the rocks and the mountains to fall upon us to hide us from his presence.

Nowhere does this say anything about "what canon reveals to us",
Verse 9 refers to the things that Zeezrom asked of him.

This is not a mystery revealed to me.
It is an eternal truth revealed to the prophets of the restoration.
To imply that they were told, like Nephi was, not to reveal these truths
is to criticize the Lord's anointed.

There is no mystery here, these are revealed doctrines to be found in black and white for all who chose to see.
They were revealed to the Lord's anointed.
The were published by the Lord's anointed.
They were taught by the Lord's anointed.

To imply that I have revealed something I should not have is to bare false witness against me.
I make no claim what so ever that anything has been revealed to me and not the prophets of God.
To imply such is to bare false witness against me.
To imply that that Brigham revealed something he should not have is to bare false witness against the Lord's anointed.
There is no scripture that condones such behavior, only condemns it.
Your own testimony condemns you.
You would be wise to stop and bring no more condemnation upon your self.
But if you were wise you would never have started.

The whole of this quote from Alma 12 and its warnings apply to you.
Stop hardening your hart to the revealed truths of the Lord's anointed, the prophets of the restoration.
The difference is that Zeezrom recognized the great peril he has placed himself in.
Sadly, you have not. I extort, read Alma 12 and apply it to yourself, take the same steps that Zeezrom started.

10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.

The Doctrine of Eternal Lives is "the greater portion of the word".

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

I have now been accused of ad hominem twice on this forum.
It is time to clear the air as to what ad hominem really if

ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
adverb: ad hominem; adjective: ad hominem

1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
2.
relating to or associated with a particular person.
"the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"

example:
There is a green light
Fred:"the light is green"
Sam:"the light is green"
Bill:"Fred says the light is red, IS SAM LYING"

This IS ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's person not his position
Fred:"Bill is so full of crap his eyes are brown"

This IS NOT an ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's position not his person
Fred:"I did not say the light is red, Bill is a liar"


I clearly have called someone on this forum a liar based on the position that person took and I have a right to defend what I say.
This example is a similitude of what actually happened. And my response followed the IS NOT similitude.
And if I get banned from this list because of it, I still have my integrity and it will be this forums lose.

[freedomforall]

I have now been accused of ad hominem twice on this forum.
It is time to clear the air as to what ad hominem really if

ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
adverb: ad hominem; adjective: ad hominem

1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
2.
relating to or associated with a particular person.
"the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"

example:
There is a green light
Fred:"the light is green"
Sam:"the light is green"
Bill:"Fred says the light is red, IS SAM LYING"

This IS ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's person not his position
Fred:"Bill is so full of crap his eyes are brown"

This IS NOT an ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's position not his person
Fred:"I did not say the light is red, Bill is a liar"


I clearly have called someone on this forum a liar based on the position that person took and I have a right to defend what I say.
This example is a similitude of what actually happened. And my response followed the IS NOT similitude.
And if I get banned from this list because of it, I still have my integrity and it will be this forums lose.

Jake: "I have my integrity"
Jose: "I have my integrity"
Jake: "My integrity is more important than yours because what I say is of a greater value"
Jose: "So what I have to say is of no value to anyone, based on your word alone?
Jake: "What I have to say supersedes what you say and must be heard on the whole forum or they will lose out on getting 'my' message."
Jose: "So all these years of studying and pondering and praying, thus having a different understanding of scripture is inferior to your understanding?"
Jake: "Yes, because you are ignorant and a liar. Don't bug me with your interpretation because I won't accept it, you liar. Brigham Young and Joseph Smith taught what I have learned, which makes today's doctrine insignificant by comparison. What they say...goes, period. And you better forget everything you think you know and learn their message."
Jose: "Isn't this idol worship?"
Jake: :ymblushing: "But.....I still have my integrity to defend."
Jose: "Ya, right!" ^:)^

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

I have now been accused of ad hominem twice on this forum.
It is time to clear the air as to what ad hominem really if

ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
adverb: ad hominem; adjective: ad hominem

1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
2.
relating to or associated with a particular person.
"the office was created ad hominem for Fenton"

example:
There is a green light
Fred:"the light is green"
Sam:"the light is green"
Bill:"Fred says the light is red, IS SAM LYING"

This IS ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's person not his position
Fred:"Bill is so full of crap his eyes are brown"

This IS NOT an ad hominem - what Fred says is based on Bill's position not his person
Fred:"I did not say the light is red, Bill is a liar"


I clearly have called someone on this forum a liar based on the position that person took and I have a right to defend what I say.
This example is a similitude of what actually happened. And my response followed the IS NOT similitude.
And if I get banned from this list because of it, I still have my integrity and it will be this forums lose.

Jake: "I have my integrity"
Jose: "I have my integrity"
Jake: "My integrity is more important than yours because what I say is of a greater value"
Jose: "So what I have to say is of no value to anyone, based on your word alone?
Jake: "What I have to say supersedes what you say and must be heard on the whole forum or they will lose out on getting 'my' message."
Jose: "So all these years of studying and pondering and praying, thus having a different understanding of scripture is inferior to your understanding?"
Jake: "Yes, because you are ignorant and a liar. Don't bug me with your interpretation because I won't accept it, you liar. Brigham Young and Joseph Smith taught what I have learned, which makes today's doctrine insignificant by comparison. What they say...goes, period. And you better forget everything you think you know and learn their message."
Jose: "Isn't this idol worship?"
Jake: :ymblushing:

At least my similitude has some basis in reality.
I have presented what I believe and why I believe it, which is because the prophets have written it.
I have not twisted the meaning of scripture to prove my point.
I have not added meaning to scripture that was not there to prove my point.
I have not miss represented what someone else has said to prove my point.
I have not run to the moderators with false charges of ad hominem attacks.
I have not said "My integrity is more important than yours because what I say is of a greater value"
I have not said "What I have to say supersedes what you say and must be heard on the whole forum or they will lose out on getting 'my' message."
I have said "you are ignorant and a liar." because the facts back that up. Ignorance is only a sin when it is willfull, otherwise it is very easy to cure
I have not said "Don't bug me with your interpretation because I won't accept it" no one is under any obligation to accept anything anyone says.
I Have indeed said "Brigham Young and Joseph Smith taught what I have learned"
I have not said "which makes today's doctrine insignificant by comparison. What they say...goes, period. And you better forget everything you think you know and learn their message."
I am not :ymblushing:
I have said I don't expect anyone to take my word for anything
I have said If you don't believe it, I'm ok with that

If you are claiming that this is a similitude that contains what I've said, it is not true.
So little of your similitude represents what I have said
but so much more of your similitude does not have any resemblance to what I've said.
Therefore I have to assume this similitude is about someone else.
May be you should have quoted that persons post that resemble the similitude.
It might have been more effective.

But I expect that you are inferring that I've actually said all those things.
If you are that would be yet another false witness against me.
Back it up or shut it up.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

I will show that the cannon of scripture and the teachings of Brigham Young are in harmony
Just to be thorough:
Adam and Michael are the same personage.

D&C 27:11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;

And Michael is not "a" but "the" archangel. (only one)

D&C 88:112 And Michael, the seventh angel, even the archangel, shall gather together his armies, even the hosts of heaven.

What is an archangel – the word is prefixed arch-angel

What is the meaning of the root word Arch?
It comes from the GREEK archos. From this basic meaning it is associated with chief or head or king or origin in one way or another. You can make many words with ARCH, from ARCHbishop to ARCHfoe, from ARCHfriend to ARCHilar.

And what is an angel?

D&C 129:1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King Angel
or Adam, Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones
Whereas Christ does not yet have a physical body – mortal or immortal

Ether 3:9 And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood; and never has man come before me with such exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this?

So who has greater power? Adam or Christ?
that would be Adam.
Is a person of greater power superior or subordinate to one of lesser power
that would be superior
Therefore Adam is superior to Christ.

Back to Michael is the Chief/Head/King resurrected personage, having a body of flesh and bones would make him God the Father.
And looking at “Adam, the father of all” might make sense as the father of all the spirits that come to this world rather that father of all mortals, which he is not.

And all of the above give credibility to

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.”
(Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

At least this teaching of Brigham Young is in complete harmony with the cannon of scripture.
And of course it would.
Joseph Smith taught this to Brigham - “ and Joseph taught this principle”
Joseph Smith translated and brought forth the Book of Mormon
and the D&C is mostly revelations given to Joseph Smith
why would anyone expect anything else?

Anyone can chose to believe it or they can chose to disbelieve it or they can chose to fight against it.
It is your agency, use it wisely.

But if you are going to criticize it be honest as to what is said here and
Back it up or Shut it up

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

Does anyone know what this means, anyone want to discuse it?

D&C 88
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.

[diligently seeking]

Does anyone know what this means, anyone want to discuse it?

D&C 88
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
29 Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
30 And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
31 And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
32 And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.

Those who receive a portion of celestial glory in this life and will advance to obtain a fullness of that Glory in the next life are those who have their names written in the Lamb's Book of Life / the book of the sanctified and are members of the Church of the first born as a result. Even Those who live Celestial law the law of Jesus Christ and have been given the promise of eternal life-- in this life. Previous to this They met the requirement to abide in terrestrial setting having been Sanctified and quickned in their Inner Man / having been born of God / received the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost and could as a result sing a song of redeeming love through application of the Lord's atoning sacrifice. Again-- they then move forward with confidence and receive the promise from heed and diligence to the admonition of King Benjamin after this Mighty change of heart and rebirth found in verse 15 of mosiah chapter 5 to then through the grace and will of Jesus to be sealed up / receive their calling and election / promise of eternal life / receive a portion of celestial glory. From there they move forward in faith and righteousness to receive the heavenly gift their calling election made sure / second comforter.

How vital it is for us to understand the significance of not taking lightly This Book of Mormon message / the blueprint for living Celestial law and receiving the opportunity to one day obtain a fullness of celestial Glory. Why this is not taught with clarity and confidence in general conference is bewildering to me. I do not say that to scoff but I genuinely with a hurt heart-- ask that question...

Maybe there's a satisfactory answer out there?

Ps

Extrapolate (to project, extend, or expand (known data or experience) through reading the first verses in D&C 88 to check and see if what I have said is true.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

JaredBees,
I like what you wrote, you have read and understood the words pretty well. But what about this part
For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
Aren't we taught that resurrection is the spirit reuniting with a physical body?

[diligently seeking]

JaredBees,
I like what you wrote, you have read and understood the words pretty well. But what about this part
For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
Aren't we taught that resurrection is the spirit reuniting with a physical body?

D&C 88
27 For notwithstanding they die, they also shall rise again, a spiritual body.
28 They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened

Our Spirits are tabernacled in a fallen body in this telestial sphere. Our Spirits are obedient willing divine ("they come trailing clouds of glory") and for the most part, proven. The flesh is fallen and weak-- continually carnal sensual and devilish. As we are born of God / quickened-- the flesh is not subdued but it is elevated to the levels of our willing and obedient spirit... This rebirth is not a guarantee of living in a continual state of righteousness. it is very easy to lose this grace in this Fallen / opposition heavy existence. However, great are the spiritual advantages that come from being born of God... Hence one of the many great needs to move forward with a broken heart and contrite spirit repenting and striving to follow our great Exemplar Jesus Christ every waking moment and sleeping moment of our existence... eventually we receive a greater witness of our standing before the Lord / the promise of eternal life. If we die in that blessed condition etc our bodies upon resurrection will not be fallen / tellestial but they will be Spiritual. / Spirit Bodies / together representing a "soul" in Celestial Harmony. In other words we want our body to be a reflection of the glory of our spirit. = a "spiritual body"

This is what I believe the answer to your question is.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

JaredBees,
If physical death is the lose of the physical body,
is spiritual death the lose of the spirit body?

Consider this D&C 129

1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven,
namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

There is another scripture somewhere that says "the spirits of just men made perfect" means they have a spirit body (spirit bodies only come in one type - perfect)

So, to be in heaven, with the Father, he have to have either a body of flesh and bones, or a spirit body.

does "they also shall rise again, a spiritual body", mean that our spirit body will rise again?

[diligently seeking]

Wow, alot of great questions! I will try to answer. I hope Marc is reading this-- he could give you a great understanding. Give me a second.