The Second Coming Is Not Happening In Our Lifetime. . . But What COULD Happen

[Sunain]

I for one will not be idle for 1000 years doing nothing. Why all you guys think we won't be helping the Lord accomplish His work throughout the millennium as we are doing now is just mind blogging especially with all the PROPHETS saying so. The work of The Church of Jesus Christ expands greatly during the millennium, it does NOT stop at the second coming. Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe in modern day revelation coming from Apostles and Prophets. Those links are quote from Apostles and Prophets.

During the millennium the temple work will continue and all person that are able to receive a Terrestrial or Celestial glory will be resurrected during the millennium. Not everyone is immediately resurrected at his coming, The scriptures are also clear that in the beginning of the millennium there will still be a lot of heathen nations that will be punished for not coming to the temple to hear the word of the Lord. But later the entire earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.
Temple work like baptism is an earthly ordinance and each person needs to be baptised and endowed by proxy that will take many many years for each and every person who has ever lived.
During the millennium the temples will be going 24 hours to get the work completed, yes tools like urim and thummim will be of great assistance in getting names for the temple work, but the work is massive.

Zechariah 14:16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Exactly! The temples will be going non-stop and even more will need to be built. There is a lot of work ahead of us!

[Ezekiel]

I for one will not be idle for 1000 years doing nothing. Why all you guys think we won't be helping the Lord accomplish His work throughout the millennium as we are doing now is just mind blogging especially with all the PROPHETS saying so. The work of The Church of Jesus Christ expands greatly during the millennium, it does NOT stop at the second coming. Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe in modern day revelation coming from Apostles and Prophets. Those links are quote from Apostles and Prophets.

The Millennium is patterned after the Sabbath day, which is the day of rest.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:8-11)

Just as the first six days are days of labor, and the seventh day is the day we are not to do any labor, but are to rest, so the first six thousand years are years of labor, and in the beginning of the seventh thousand years all that work is finished, before Jesus comes back, and then Jesus returns and initiates the Great Millennium, in which there is to be rest from all the work of salvation. Notice the direct comparison Joseph Smith makes to the six days of creation labor and then the seventh day of rest:

Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming. (D&C 77:12)

So, God performed His work for six days, and then finished His work on the seventh day, and then rested that day. The pattern is the same. The first sixth thousand years are years of work, then the work is finished in the beginning of the seventh thousand years, and then the earth rests for a thousand years from the Second Coming to the end of the Millennium. Should work be performed during the Millennium the people would be breaking the thousand year long Sabbath that Jesus ushers in. This would break God's commandment.

You guys keep quoting your interpretation of D&C 77:12 but modern day revelation from D&C 138 has revealed that the Work of Salvation continues right now in the Spirit World as well. If the Holy Ghost and Jesus are there, why are these faithful servants working as missionaries there? Couldn't Jesus just do all the work?

30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.

31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.

33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands,

57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... 8?lang=eng

Salvation work is ongoing on both sides of the veil for the first sixth thousand years. We are required to perform the labors the Lord has given us until Elias shows up. None of us, as a group, can accomplish the full task. Not even with the thousand years of the Millennium at our disposal. Not even with 10 billion years at our disposal. This is because all things must be sealed to the end of all things, and all things is an infinite number. Remember, God said that the house of Israel would be as numberless as the stars in the heavens or the sands in the sea, impossible to count, and yet all these people must be numbered and sealed and given inheritances and so forth. So, the task is impossible to complete by the saints. Combine all the saints together and give them 100 trillion years to do it, and they still would not be able to accomplish the task. It's too much work. So, God provides a special servant who can do impossible things, whose title is the Elias who restores all things, and it is this guy who is capable of doing an infinite amount of work. And as he is accounted as one of us, God looks upon the completed task as having been completed by the group (even though It is Elias who does it all), but all of us participate in some small manner. So, we are required to do our insignificant parts, which don't make a dent, and then God's grace shows up in the form of Elias who re-does our imperfect work perfectly, and then completes the rest, so that we don't get destroyed by God's coming. These works have a deadline, and unless God's commandment to finish these works by the deadline is obeyed, we all get destroyed. So, to not have that happen, God sends this special servant to group-save us.

When the leadership of the LDS church say that the work continues into the Millennium, that is the shadow speaking. Mormonism is Elias's shadow, even his foreshadow. It arrived here about 200 years ago, ahead of Elias, and it thinks it is Elias, and so it attempts to do the works of Elias. But it cannot do the works of Elias, given that these works are infinite in scope and therefore impossible to do. But it tries anyway, and uses what it has at its disposal to fulfill the prophecies. So, knowing that in order to do these many works requires more time than from the First Vision to the Second Coming, it projects its work forward, past the Second Coming, thinking it will get it all done during those thousand years of the Millennium, maybe with the help of the angels. The shadow is trying to act like Elias, trying to speak like Elias, trying to think like Elias. But it's been separated from him for nearly 200 years now and it literally thinks of itself as Elias. So, it's grown longer than his person, and it's edges have become fuzzy, so that the silhouette isn't as precise as it should be. And it pushes ahead, building more temples and sending out more missionaries, trying to complete the work.

All of this is okay, for we are to perform these works according to our power and circumstances, as God has commanded, doing all within our power. The error lies in that the shadow is not Elias, despite it thinking it is, and has no power to complete the work, in any given timetable. So, like Peter Pan's shadow which had separated from him and started to do its own thing, and then later Peter tracked it down and Wendy sowed it back to Peter's foot, so the foreshadow of Elias will be reconnected to Elias when he shows up, and Elias will "fix it" so that it gives a perfect silhouette of his person, exactly his height and all its edges perfectly clear and sharp. And then Elias will proceed to work his miracles, for the shadow is nothing compared to the person who casts it. It's just a 2-dimensional, black image of a 3-dimensional colored person. You can't compare the two.

So, all your quotes of the leadership saying the work will proceed past the Second Coming is just the shadow speaking through them. None of them are aware of Elias's coming, so they push forward with what they have (the shadow) and what the shadow says, is what they say. But the shadow is wrong, nonetheless. And when Elias shows up he will go to the leadership and correct them, and then the leadership will go before the people and correct them, giving them the true understandings of how things really are.

The Second Coming will soften the hearts of many to the reception of the gospel message as He will be here to teach it himself and we will be there as missionaries to help family, friends, neighbours and investigators come to a FULL knowledge of the truthfulness of His gospel. Missionaries are called in His name to teach and preach His gospel. That task never stops till all have had the chance to accept or reject the message.

The Second Coming doesn't soften the hearts of anyone. The Second Coming is a day of judgment. And it only happens after all preaching has been done:

And again, this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked; and again shall the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, be fulfilled. (JS-M 1:31-32)

The destruction of the wicked happens at the Second Coming. So, all preaching must be done before then. All preaching, on both sides of the veil, must be completed, every man hearing the gospel preached in his own language.

And this gospel shall be preached unto every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (D&C 133:37)

And then cometh the day when the arm of the Lord shall be revealed in power in convincing the nations, the heathen nations, the house of Joseph, of the gospel of their salvation. For it shall come to pass in that day, that every man shall hear the fulness of the gospel in his own tongue, and in his own language, through those who are ordained unto this power, by the administration of the Comforter, shed forth upon them for the revelation of Jesus Christ. (D&C 90:10-11)

So, the gospel is currently preached by the Mormons on this side of the veil, and by the dead elders on that side. But the time will come that Elias, who will have the convincing power, and his angelic helpers, will preach with this power to every man, on either side of the veil, in each man's own tongue and language, so that all the missionary work will be finished in a timely manner, regardless of the number of people that need to be preached to. Thus, Elias will use the convincing power to convince everyone, the whole world, both dead and living, that Jesus is the Christ, leaving nobody with any excuse. For the whole world needs to be left without excuse before the Lord can judge the world:

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Romans 1:20)

Call ye, therefore, upon them with loud proclamation, and with your testimony, fearing them not, for they are as grass, and all their glory as the flower thereof which soon falleth, that they may be left also without excuse—and that I may visit them in the day of visitation, when I shall unveil the face of my covering, to appoint the portion of the oppressor among hypocrites, where there is gnashing of teeth, if they reject my servants and my testimony which I have revealed unto them. (D&C 124:7-8)

What I have said unto you must needs be, that all men may be left without excuse; that wise men and rulers may hear and know that which they have never considered; that I may proceed to bring to pass my act, my strange act, and perform my work, my strange work, that men may discern between the righteous and the wicked, saith your God. (D&C 101:93-95)

I suppose I am writing all of this in vain, for I have been a member of this church from the time I was a boy, and I have heard the shadow's teachings all of my life, and I am fully aware of all of what it teaches, and I know how many latter-day saints are utterly convinced that the shadow is correct in all things--for the shadow is similar in confidence to Elias, and so just as Elias is supremely confident in all he says, so his shadow is likewise supremely confident about being right in all things--but I tell you that the shadow is fully wrong in this thing, and will be corrected by Elias in due time.

Why would we build a temple in the New Jerusalem or in Jerusalem if we aren't going to use them as Temples for the work of salvation?

The use of these temples during the Millennium will yet be revealed. Only 3 small parts of the restoration have occurred. We only know what we are to use temples for during this period of time, in which salvation work is done. Later on, Elias will restore all things, and then we'll have a full understanding.

If we aren't helping others gain salvation during the 1000 year reign of the Savior as the Prophets have said, I pray thee, do tell what were going to be doing then for 1000 years while Jesus does all the work for us as you suggest?

It's not that Jesus does all the work for us during the Millennium, it's that all the work is accomplished before Jesus comes back, by the instrument in His hands, Elias. As for what we will do, isn't there more to do than just preach and teach and baptize in life? Or, is that what you think life is all about?

What you are basically saying is we shouldn't bother doing any more temple, missionary or genealogy work now because Jesus is going to do it all in a few years at the second coming. Man I better go tell my bishop he's working too hard! Jesus is coming, bring on the Eternal Break Time!

If you stop doing the works you have been commanded to do, all you do is cut yourself off. Nobody is saying we are to stop our works.

And again, verily thus saith the Lord: Let the work of my temple, and all the works which I have appointed unto you, be continued on and not cease; and let your diligence, and your perseverance, and patience, and your works be redoubled, and you shall in nowise lose your reward, saith the Lord of Hosts. (D&C 127:4)

We are to perform all the works God has commanded, without ceasing, until Elias shows up. We are to do all within our power, and then when Elias shows up, he will tell us to stop, and then he will perform all the works to perfection, completing the salvation of man. Read what Joseph Smith said again:

Therefore, dearly beloved brethren, let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed. (D&C 123:17)

To me this is all so exciting. God and Jesus must love us a ton to send us a servant, Elias, so we may not be destroyed on that last day.

I hope we can find out who this person is soon; our world needs a lot of help.

[pauzinho]

Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming. (D&C 77:12)

It seems to me that the Lord did plenty of work based on this verse on the seventh day. And that He will continue to do work on the seventh day. As we are His servants, I believe we will be assisting in the completing the salvation and sanctification of man. Why else would Satan be loosed for a little season and final judgement occur at the end of the millennium?

[Sunain]

I will say this one last time, you are contradicting what the Prophets and Apostles have taught us about the millennial work. The links to the Prophets and Apostles discussing this work is completely opposite to what your opinion is. You are welcome to have your opinion but telling people that your opinion it is fact or it is going happen is false doctrine. You won't convince me or other here that your opinion is right because of what the Prophets and Apostles have taught us. I want to make this clear to all those that read this thread.

President Ballard - June 2017: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 18#p803807 - LDS.org Reference Link
Gospel Principles: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 70#p803801 - LDS.org Reference Link
New Era - June 2014: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p803857 - LDS.org Reference Link
True to the Faith - 2004: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p803867 - LDS.org Reference Link
Quotes on the subject from other Apostles and Prophets: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p804118

[Spaced_Out]

I for one will not be idle for 1000 years doing nothing. Why all you guys think we won't be helping the Lord accomplish His work throughout the millennium as we are doing now is just mind blogging especially with all the PROPHETS saying so. The work of The Church of Jesus Christ expands greatly during the millennium, it does NOT stop at the second coming. Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints believe in modern day revelation coming from Apostles and Prophets. Those links are quote from Apostles and Prophets.

The Millennium is patterned after the Sabbath day, which is the day of rest.

:p :p :p :p :p :p
We do sacrament and baptisms on the Sabbath as well as teach lessons and hold firesides, home teaching etc...
The second coming is not on the start of the 7,000years but a good way in.

What you think of rest and what the scriptures refer to as rest are two very different things. We have the scriptures and the words of the prophets there is no room for error to believe that the temple will not be open and operating during the millennium.
To me going to the temple is a rest from wordy labours the scriptures clearly state that Zion and the temples will be built and ordinances preformed in them both in Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem. There will be 12 gates one for each Tribe of Israel to enter the temple.

The scriptures teach Jesus Christ will rule with a rod of iron during the millennium - is he going to be resting as you suppose. It is a rest from wickedness and Satan's rule over the earth.

[Spaced_Out]

I'm not sure how you can say I'm contradicting prophets and apostles. All I do is quote Joseph Smith, who was a literal prophet of God, and other scriptures which were written by literal apostles and literal prophets.

For example, take a look at this scripture:

Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken. (Isaiah 33:20)

Have any of the stakes of Zion been closed or removed since the days of Joseph Smith? The answer is: yes, there have been stakes of Zion closed and removed. But this prophecy states that not one stake will ever be removed. So what gives?

It is because Isaiah was prophesying of the stakes of Zion that would be set up by Elias, not by his shadow. We are living in Elias's shadow (Mormonism), even in the times of types and shadows, and so we sometimes open new stakes, and sometimes stakes are closed and removed. The shadow is not (nor is it meant to be) the literal fulfillment of the prophecies, hence the discrepancy. What you hear from the leadership of the church, then, on these matters, is just shadow-talk. A shadow prophet and a shadow apostle will speak of shadow futures, not of the literal future. Only non-shadow (literal) prophets can perceive the literal future. But you are in the shadow, so go ahead and continue believing its words about the shadow future. That is your prerogative. As for me, I will continue to speak of the literal future.

It is all false doctrine.

Chapter heading of Isiah 33,
Apostasy and wickedness will precede the Second Coming—The Lord will come with devouring fire—Zion and its stakes will be perfected—The Lord is our Judge, Lawgiver, and King.

The scripture is talking about how during after the second coming the millennium the stakes of Zion will be perfected.
Total apostate doctrine to say there is a shadow presidency, the scriptures are clear that Ephraim will rule till Jesus comes.

[Spaced_Out]

:p :p :p :p :p :p
We do sacrament and baptisms on the Sabbath as well as teach lessons and hold firesides, home teaching etc...
The second coming is not on the start of the 7,000years but a good way in.

What you think of rest and what the scriptures refer to as rest are two very different things. We have the scriptures and the words of the prophets there is no room for error to believe that the temple will not be open and operating during the millennium.
To me going to the temple is a rest from wordy labours the scriptures clearly state that Zion and the temples will be built and ordinances preformed in them both in Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem. There will be 12 gates one for each Tribe of Israel to enter the temple.

That's true that we partake of the sacrament on the Sabbath. And we do it to remember the Savior. But in the Millennium, the Savior will be present. Why partake of the sacrament to remember someone you see all of the time? Kind of redundant, don't you think?

And that's true that we baptize on the Sabbath, and we baptize for the remission of sins, but given that all children in the Millennium will grow up without sin unto salvation, we can't baptize them for the remission of sins, can we? ('Cause they ain't got no sins to be remitted!) Because if we did that that would be the abomination spoken of by Mormon in the Book of Mormon. So, just as innocent children don't need baptism, nobody living in the Millennium will need it, either, for they will all be in a state of righteousness already.

Now, concerning the temples, I didn't say we wouldn't have temples or they wouldn't be open. I said that there would be no work of salvation done, because it will have already been completed (by Elias.) So, if there are no ordinances of salvation to be done for the living and the dead during the Millennium, what's a temple for? The Lord will reveal all of that through Elias. In the meantime, we use temples for salvation work.

We are encouraged to do genealogy work on the Sabbath, to state that there is no work for the dead during the millennium as it is a time of rest is not a valid argument.

Yes children will be baptised during the millennium for membership in the church and to receive the HG, and also as an ordinance of salvation - even Jesus without sin needed to be baptised and only received a fullness after his baptism, so does every single spirit child of Heavenly Father that will receive a physical body.

Elias/Elijah has already come and the keys given the Prophet JS, and are held today by the current prophet so that is not a valid argument either, and is not a teaching of the scriptures or the prophets and apostles. There is no magic bullet to do all the family history work and ordinances for the entire world since Adam, that is not how the laws of heaven work. We are all engaged in the same work. The scriptures are clear that there will be works done during the millennium including resurrections as fast as the temple work is completed.

[Spaced_Out]

So, the kingdom is taken from the Jews and given to the Gentiles (shall we call them Ephraim?) And then the Gentiles (Ephraim?) who have the kingdom commit spiritual suicide and God destroys them and gives His kingdom to another group (the other husbandmen.) Are you sure that the scriptures are clear that Ephraim will rule until Jesus returns?

No gentile has ever received the PH or authority to govern. Again a false stick man argument like the argument that during the millennium the earth will rest so no ordinances will be preformed.

As soon as a person is baptised they become a member of the House of Israel. JS is clearly stated in scripture that he is of the linage of Ephraim. Yes the LDS will be set up among the gentiles who will eventually reject the gospel, the the missionary work will be taken from them, then the gentiles will be punish by God for wickedness. - it has no reference to the kingdom of God on earth.

The LDS church (Kingdom of God on earth) will never fail the stone cut without hands will continue till Jesus Comes. The kingdom is indeed given to another group the Jews the 'husbandmen" rejected Jesus and according to prophecy - Ephraim was then given the rule till Jesus come.

[Spaced_Out]

Thus, we still wait for Elias to first come and restore all things, just as Jesus said he would.

Elias has come and gone you wait in vain. Jesus rule the church there is no intermediaries or shadows, only Satan works in shadows.

[Ezra]

Thus, we still wait for Elias to first come and restore all things, just as Jesus said he would.

Elias has come and gone you wait in vain. Jesus rule the church there is no intermediaries or shadows, only Satan works in shadows.

Can you explain when?

[Sunain]

Wow! You both throw around accusations of "false doctrine" and "apostate doctrine" pretty quickly. (It sounds to me like just a knee jerk response, though.)

Because what you are saying is false doctrine.

[Sunain]

Thus, we still wait for Elias to first come and restore all things, just as Jesus said he would.

Elias has come and gone you wait in vain. Jesus rule the church there is no intermediaries or shadows, only Satan works in shadows.

Can you explain when?

As Space_Out has already said, Elias has already come and gone appearing to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery years ago at the Kirkland Temple. Elias' return has already been fulfilled on April 3rd, 1836, 181 years ago and he committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, meaning all things are restored and revealed during the The Dispensation of the Fullness of times. Elias' always prepare the way.

On April 3, 1836, the keys of the "dispensation of the gospel of Abraham" were committed to the Prophet Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple as part of the restoration of all things in the dispensation of the fulness of times (D&C 110:12).
http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Gospel_of_Abraham

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “when God sends a man into the world to prepare for a greater work, holding the keys of the power of Elias, it was called the doctrine of Elias, even from the early ages of the world” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 335–36).
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/07/i-ha ... n?lang=eng

We do know that from D&C 110 though that both Elias and Elijah (also an Elias) have returned fulfilling the prophecy in Malachi. Verses 12 to 14 are very specific that Elias and Elijah were two separate visions.

Doctrine and Covenants Section 110

Moses and Elias each appear and commit their keys and dispensations

12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.

13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:

14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—

Doctrine and Covenants 110:12—Who was Elias? What Keys Did He Bring?
“Elias” is a title given to a messenger who prepares the way ( Bible Dictionary,“Elias,” p. 663). It is not clear who Elias was in Doctrine and Covenants 110.

The keys Elias brought concern the blessings the Lord promised Abraham—which can only be fully received through temple ordinances. Thus, he “committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham” (D&C 110:12).
https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and ... e?lang=eng

A man called Elias apparently lived in mortality in the days of Abraham, who committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland (Ohio) Temple on April 3, 1836 (D&C 110:12). We have no specific information as to the details of his mortal life or ministry.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/elias?lang=eng

There were three separate prophets that visited Joseph and Oliver after the Savior in the Kirkland Temple.

After this vision closed, Joseph and Oliver saw three separate visions in which ancient prophets appeared to them to restore priesthood keys necessary for the latter-day work of the Lord. The prophet Moses appeared and committed to them “the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth.” Elias came and committed to them “the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham.” (See D&C 110:11–12.)

Then, in another glorious vision, Joseph and Oliver saw the prophet Elijah (see D&C 110:13–16). The coming of Elijah was so important that the ancient prophet Malachi had prophesied of it centuries earlier, and the Savior had repeated the prophecy to the Nephites (see Malachi 4:5–6; 3 Nephi 25:5–6; 26:1–2). Elijah came to commit to Joseph and Oliver the keys of sealing—the power to bind and validate in the heavens all ordinances performed on the earth. The restoration of the sealing power was necessary to prepare the world for the Savior’s Second Coming, for without it, “the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming” (Joseph Smith—History 1:39).
https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-jo ... 6?lang=eng

John the Baptist was also an Elias and he brought back the Aaronic Priesthood.

Elias is also a title for one who is a forerunner; for example, John the Baptist, as in JST Matt. 11:13–15, JST Matt. 17:10–14, and JST John 1:20–28 (Appendix). These passages are sufficiently clarified to show that anciently two Eliases were spoken of, one as a preparer and the other a restorer.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/elias?lang=eng

Joseph Smith recorded what happened in answer to their prayer: “While we were thus employed, praying and calling upon the Lord, a messenger from heaven descended in a cloud of light, and having laid his hands upon us, he ordained us, saying: Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.

“He said this Aaronic Priesthood had not the power of laying on hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, but that this should be conferred on us hereafter. …

“The messenger who visited us on this occasion and conferred this Priesthood upon us, said that his name was John, the same that is called John the Baptist in the New Testament, and that he acted under the direction of Peter, James and John, who held the keys of the Priesthood of Melchizedek, which Priesthood, he said, would in due time be conferred on us” (Joseph Smith—History 1:68–70, 72).
https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-jo ... 6?lang=eng

But we also specifically know that John the Baptist is not the Elias that would restore all things.

When the priests and Levites asked John the Baptist whether he was the Elias who was prophesied to come and restore all things, he replied:

“I am not that Elias who was to restore all things. And they asked him, saying, Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No” (JST, John 1:22, Bible appendix).
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/07/i-ha ... n?lang=eng

[awar_e]

I will say this one last time, you are contradicting what the Prophets and Apostles have taught us about the millennial work. The links to the Prophets and Apostles discussing this work is completely opposite to what your opinion is. You are welcome to have your opinion but telling people that your opinion it is fact or it is going happen is false doctrine. You won't convince me or other here that your opinion is right because of what the Prophets and Apostles have taught us. I want to make this clear to all those that read this thread.

President Ballard - June 2017: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 18#p803807 - LDS.org Reference Link
Gospel Principles: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 70#p803801 - LDS.org Reference Link
New Era - June 2014: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p803857 - LDS.org Reference Link
True to the Faith - 2004: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p803867 - LDS.org Reference Link


At least I am not alone seeing false teachings being called truth.
Quotes on the subject from other Apostles and Prophets: https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p804118

[Ezekiel]

Ok folks here it is! So I guess the scriptures - including the D&C - are false doctrine! Nothing matters unless it's written in the church manuals. We don't need to ever begin to consider that anything new could come forth...or read and study our scriptures. We don't need the Articles of Faith either; God won't ever have the need to reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God because we already have the church manuals!! Oh, how great is our Rameumptum altar of manuals. None shall stand before us!!!

[Sunain]

Ok folks here it is! So I guess the scriptures - including the D&C - are false doctrine! Nothing matters unless it's written in the church manuals. We don't need to ever begin to consider that anything new could come forth...or read and study our scriptures. We don't need the Articles of Faith either; God won't ever have the need to reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God because we already have the church manuals!! Oh, how great is our Rameumptum altar of manuals. None shall stand before us!!!

I just posted a ton of links from LDS.org and D&C 110. I seriously don't understand you're spitefulness towards church manuals. They are authorized manuals for the teaching and preaching of the gospel. They contain the words of the scripture along with the words of modern day apostles and prophets. We are told to stick to the manuals and not veer off into speculation or opinion when teaching lessons from them so we are teaching correct doctrine.

With a name like LDS Anarchist, it is very clear what your intentions are on this forum. To be disruptive in any manner you can, especially trying to confuse people with false doctrine. These are the tactics that the exmormon and opponents of the church use.

It is also very unfortunate that others here on the forum are not speaking up against your opinions. Only Spaced_Out has done so. I have posted direct links to the scriptures, manuals and teachings of prophets and apostles on LDS.org. All you guys are posting are your own opinions on a verses and quotes.

Doctrine and Covenants Section 110
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 60#p804452

Wow! You both throw around accusations of "false doctrine" and "apostate doctrine" pretty quickly. (It sounds to me like just a knee jerk response, though.)

Because what you are saying is false doctrine.

No, it's not.

Yes it is. When you're opinion does not match what the apostles and prophets teach, that is false doctrine. Both of you need to step back and realize that what you are not inline with what the church teaches about modern day revelation through prophets and apostles who have the keys and authority to do so. They are Prophets, Seers and revelators, ordained to carry out those callings here on the Earth during the Dispensation of the Fullness of times.

[Spaced_Out]

Q: When will the earth rest? A: During the Millennium.

And it came to pass that Enoch looked upon the earth; and he heard a voice from the bowels thereof, saying: Wo, wo is me, the mother of men; I am pained, I am weary, because of the wickedness of my children. When shall I rest, and be cleansed from the filthiness which is gone forth out of me? When will my Creator sanctify me, that I may rest, and righteousness for a season abide upon my face?

As I posted in a previous post it is a rest from wickedness - that is what the scripture is saying. The earth will be changed back to a terrestrial state, and the spirit of the earth will be able to rest. Nothing to do with man resting. If you read the creation carefully there where 6 creative periods where things were created spiritually then in the 7th period the physical creation and Adam and Eve crated and placed in the earth. Likewise the second coming will occur within the 7,000y period.

Your definition of rest is way out of line with scripture, teachings of the prophets and general handbooks of instruction ie. false doctrine.

Doing temple work is a righteous work and will allow the spirit of the earth to rest for a season till at the end of Millennium wickedness will come again and will be the final battle with Satan and his hosts.

[Spaced_Out]

Spaced_Out, you wrote:

Yes the LDS will be set up among the gentiles who will eventually reject the gospel, the the missionary work will be taken from them, then the gentiles will be punish by God for wickedness. - it has no reference to the kingdom of God on earth.

The LDS church (Kingdom of God on earth) will never fail the stone cut without hands will continue till Jesus Comes. The kingdom is indeed given to another group the Jews the 'husbandmen" rejected Jesus and according to prophecy - Ephraim was then given the rule till Jesus come.

Again, I will quote the same scripture. Notice the part in bold red type:

And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. And they said among themselves, Shall this man think that he alone can spoil this great kingdom? And they were angry with him. But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they learned that the multitude took him for a prophet. And now his disciples came to him, and Jesus said unto them, Marvel ye at the words of the parable which I spake unto them? Verily, I say unto you, I am the stone, and those wicked ones reject me. I am the head of the corner. These Jews shall fall upon me, and shall be broken. And the kingdom of God shall be taken from them, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof; (meaning the Gentiles.) Wherefore, on whomsoever this stone shall fall, it shall grind him to powder. And when the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, he will destroy those miserable, wicked men, and will let again his vineyard unto other husbandmen, even in the last days, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. And then understood they the parable which he spake unto them, that the Gentiles should be destroyed also, when the Lord should descend out of heaven to reign in his vineyard, which is the earth and the inhabitants thereof. (JST Matthew 21:47-56)

So, no, you are incorrect. This scripture explicitly states that Jesus had reference to the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is taken from the Jews and is given to the Gentiles. Then the Gentiles (who have the kingdom of God) become miserable, wicked men, and so the kingdom of God is taken from the Gentiles and is given to other husbandmen. The kingdom of God goes from Israel, to the Gentiles, and then back to the Israel again (this time permanently) and the Gentiles become destroyed. In other words, there are no more Gentiles after that, only Israel will exist from that point on. The Gentiles are destroyed because they get the kingdom of God and then commit spiritual suicide.

3Nephi10:10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.
13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.

Very simple that scripture is referring to when the gentile nation/s where the gospels will be established become wicked and persecute the church and reject the saints from among them then the gospel will be taken from them (missionaries withdrawn) and the preaching will be focused on the literal descendants of the house of Israel.
D&C88 says the same thing the missionaries will be withdrawn from the wicked nations and then judgement will come but the saints will be spared, later Zion is built and the 10 lost tribes will return to receive their blessings from Ephraim. Ephraim rules and has the greater blessings till Jesus comes, to think otherwise is apostate doctrine and needs to be corrected.

D&C88:84 Therefore, tarry ye, and labor diligently, that you may be perfected in your ministry to go forth among the Gentiles for the last time, as many as the mouth of the Lord shall name, to bind up the law and seal up the testimony, and to prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come;
85 That their souls may escape the wrath of God, the desolation of abomination which awaits the wicked, both in this world and in the world to come. Verily, I say unto you, let those who are not the first elders continue in the vineyard until the mouth of the Lord shall call them, for their time is not yet come; their garments are not clean from the blood of this generation.
86 Abide ye in the liberty wherewith ye are made free; entangle not yourselves in sin, but let your hands be clean, until the Lord comes.
87 For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig tree.
88 And after your testimony cometh wrath and indignation upon the people.
89 For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand.
90 And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds.

Doctrine and Covenants 133:34 Behold, this is the ablessing of the beverlasting God upon the ctribes of dIsrael, and the richer blessing upon the head of eEphraim and his fellows.

26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.
27 And an highway shall be cast up in the midst of the great deep.
28 Their enemies shall become a prey unto them,
29 And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land.
30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.
31 And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.
32 And there shall they fall down and be crowned with glory, even in Zion, by the hands of the servants of the Lord, even the children of Ephraim.

[Spaced_Out]

is what "the preparing of the way before the time of his coming" consists of:

Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming. (D&C 77:12)

All of that stuff must happen before Christ comes back. That is the plain meaning of the text. Now, that's my interpretation. My interpretation is the plain meaning the text. Now, what is your interpretation of that verse?

I am not a new member. I am a very old member. If you want to engage intelligently, then engage the topic on hand. What is the meaning of the verse in your view? If you still avoid the verse and continue to just quote other people, then you just come off as a novice. So, show me how I am wrong in this verse. Not by quoting other people's opinions of what will happen in the future, but by showing me what the true understanding of this verse is. The ball is in your court.

Very simple " turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers"
Doctrine and Covenants 110:15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—

How is that done by family history not by an angle coming down and doing billions of baptisms and endowments in behalf of the dead - how would that turn the fathers to children and visa versa.

John 14:12-13; 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

What greater works than Jesus are to be done, it is the work for the dead, and who is to do it?? simple the members of the church.

[Spaced_Out]

is what "the preparing of the way before the time of his coming" consists of:

Q. What are we to understand by the sounding of the trumpets, mentioned in the 8th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that as God made the world in six days, and on the seventh day he finished his work, and sanctified it, and also formed man out of the dust of the earth, even so, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years will the Lord God sanctify the earth, and complete the salvation of man, and judge all things, and shall redeem all things, except that which he hath not put into his power, when he shall have sealed all things, unto the end of all things; and the sounding of the trumpets of the seven angels are the preparing and finishing of his work, in the beginning of the seventh thousand years—the preparing of the way before the time of his coming. (D&C 77:12)

All of that stuff must happen before Christ comes back. That is the plain meaning of the text. Now, that's my interpretation. My interpretation is the plain meaning the text. Now, what is your interpretation of that verse?

I am not a new member. I am a very old member. If you want to engage intelligently, then engage the topic on hand. What is the meaning of the verse in your view? If you still avoid the verse and continue to just quote other people, then you just come off as a novice. So, show me how I am wrong in this verse. Not by quoting other people's opinions of what will happen in the future, but by showing me what the true understanding of this verse is. The ball is in your court.

To 'redeem and seal all things' in that verse does not mean the work will be complete. It simply means that the requirements for the earth to be changed into a terrestrial state will have been met. By undergoing the atonement and Resurrection the scriptures also teach that all things have been fulfilled. One can't simple take a single scriptures apply a personal interpretation that contradicts many other scriptures and the teachings of the general authorities of the church and general handbook of instructions etc.. and then claim a new doctrine, it has to be read in context.

The work will not be finished at the second coming there is still the rest of the millennium to sort out many problems and do the temple work then there is the final battle with Satan and his angles even people living during the millennium that will go against the Master. Then the final day of judgement. What would be the purpose of the Millennium, why not just celstrialise the earth at his coming and make it the day of final judgement - because the work is not finished.

[Jonesy]

So, no, you are incorrect. This scripture explicitly states that Jesus had reference to the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is taken from the Jews and is given to the Gentiles. Then the Gentiles (who have the kingdom of God) become miserable, wicked men, and so the kingdom of God is taken from the Gentiles and is given to other husbandmen. The kingdom of God goes from Israel, to the Gentiles, and then back to the Israel again (this time permanently) and the Gentiles become destroyed. In other words, there are no more Gentiles after that, only Israel will exist from that point on. The Gentiles are destroyed because they get the kingdom of God and then commit spiritual suicide.

How does this apply in regards to the Josephite? Does Israel include the converted Mormons when he has the keys?

[Ezekiel]

Ok folks here it is! So I guess the scriptures - including the D&C - are false doctrine! Nothing matters unless it's written in the church manuals. We don't need to ever begin to consider that anything new could come forth...or read and study our scriptures. We don't need the Articles of Faith either; God won't ever have the need to reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God because we already have the church manuals!! Oh, how great is our Rameumptum altar of manuals. None shall stand before us!!!

I just posted a ton of links from LDS.org and D&C 110. I seriously don't understand you're spitefulness towards church manuals. They are authorized manuals for the teaching and preaching of the gospel. They contain the words of the scripture along with the words of modern day apostles and prophets. We are told to stick to the manuals and not veer off into speculation or opinion when teaching lessons from them so we are teaching correct doctrine.

With a name like LDS Anarchist, it is very clear what your intentions are on this forum. To be disruptive in any manner you can, especially trying to confuse people with false doctrine. These are the tactics that the exmormon and opponents of the church use.

It is also very unfortunate that others here on the forum are not speaking up against your opinions. Only Spaced_Out has done so. I have posted direct links to the scriptures, manuals and teachings of prophets and apostles on LDS.org. All you guys are posting are your own opinions on a verses and quotes.

Doctrine and Covenants Section 110
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 60#p804452

My name is Ezekiel.

I am not here to break up the church. I am not here to spew apostate crap. I am here to do the exact opposite. I am simply trying to explain that there are more exciting things in the scriptures than most people think. Nothing I have mentioned is apostate or false. I am going strictly by the scriptures given to us. LDS Anarchist is doing the exact same thing as me - and at this time to a fuller degree.

Here is my advice to you my brother/sister. Have peace and wait and see. Let God work his curious and strange works.

[Spaced_Out]

So, no, you are incorrect. This scripture explicitly states that Jesus had reference to the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is taken from the Jews and is given to the Gentiles. Then the Gentiles (who have the kingdom of God) become miserable, wicked men, and so the kingdom of God is taken from the Gentiles and is given to other husbandmen. The kingdom of God goes from Israel, to the Gentiles, and then back to the Israel again (this time permanently) and the Gentiles become destroyed. In other words, there are no more Gentiles after that, only Israel will exist from that point on. The Gentiles are destroyed because they get the kingdom of God and then commit spiritual suicide.

How does this apply in regards to the Josephite? Does Israel include the converted Mormons when he has the keys?

Agreed..
The scriptures are clear that there will be heathen nations on the earth at the start of the Millennium as well as every person who is able to live a terrestrial or celestial law. I have quoted some of the scriptures before, some more scriptures and teachings of a Prophet of God. All the gentiles will be destroyed is not true, and has no scriptural bases.

Joseph Fielding Smith

When the reign of Jesus Christ comes during the millennium, only those who have lived the telestial law will be removed. The earth will be cleansed of all its corruption and wickedness. Those who have lived virtuous lives, who have been honest in their dealings with their fellow man and have endeavored to do good to the best of their understanding, shall remain. (Doctrines of Salvation, 3:62)

When the Millennium is ushered in the earth is to pass through a cleansing. This will not be the final cleansing when the earth shall be consumed and pass away to be renewed again a celestial globe, but it will be the end of unrighteousness. 'All who have lived the telestial law -- that is those who are unclean, "they who are liars, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie" and who suffer the wrath of God on earth and "suffer the vengeance of eternal fire" -- shall be swept off from the face of the earth. All of these will be cast down to hell where they shall remain until Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work. During the thousand years all of these will be in this torment of mind, having ample time to reflect over their misdeeds and receive training in obedience to law, so that they may be prepared to come forth in the resurrection at the end of the world.

It will be impossible for the people of this class to remain on the earth during the Millennium, for they would be as much out of their element as a fish out of water. The changed condition of the earth, which will be of a terrestrial order during this thousand years, will be suited to the capacity of those of the terrestrial world as well as those who have kept the celestial law, and they shall have part in the first resurrection. "And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection, "And it shall be tolerable for them." (D.C. 45:54.) But with those of the telestial order, this will not be so. These are they who are as stubble who shall be consumed when Christ comes, according to the words of Malachi. (4:1.) It is of this class the Lord speaks when he says:

"For the hour is nigh and the day soon at hand when the earth is ripe and all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that wickedness shall not be upon the earth;

"For the hour is nigh, and that which was spoken by mine apostles must be fulfilled; for as they spoke so shall it come to pass;

"For I will reveal myself from heaven with power and great glory, with all the hosts thereof, and dwell in righteousness with men on earth a thousand years, and the wicked shall not stand." (D.C. 29:9-11) [The Way to Perfection, pp.302-303]

[Spaced_Out]

My name is Ezekiel.

I am not here to break up the church. I am not here to spew apostate crap. I am here to do the exact opposite. I am simply trying to explain that there are more exciting things in the scriptures than most people think. Nothing I have mentioned is apostate or false. I am going strictly by the scriptures given to us. LDS Anarchist is doing the exact same thing as me - and at this time to a fuller degree.

Here is my advice to you my brother/sister. Have peace and wait and see. Let God work his curious and strange works.

My honest personal opinion is that it is looking beyond the mark and inventing things that don't exist and in the process it is an attack against the LDS church saying manuals are wrong, scripture headings are wrong, teaching of the prophets are contradictory and wrong. Then getting very upset due to being challenged but have no issue with pointing fingers at the prophets and teachings of the church saying the Church will be destroyed due to wickedness etc... It is very hypocritical..

[LdsMarco]

"There may be men that will know within a year-that will have revelation to say within one or two years when the Lord shall appear. I do not know that there is anything against this.

"But the great question is, brethren and sisters, Are we ready?-are we perfect enough for this day? Are we honest enough? and are we filled with integrity enough to be ready for the Saviour and his holy angels? Is there a sufficiency of union? Have we that firmness in our minds that we can stand in their presence-that we can look them in the eye and say that all is right?" (Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, 8: 49 - 50.)

[Chris]

The second coming is so much closer than people realize