exalted man : "God was a man like you" (serpent to eve)

[Doug]

According to Joseph Smith, they ARE the same thing. There is a doctrine taught by him and others that expains that, but it is not in the scriptures so to you it does not matter.
There is no point, you will not see.

[Doug]

All so, something you seem to have missed

the offspring of cats are cats and they grow up to do what cats do
the offspring of dogs are dogs and they grow up to do what dogs do
the offspring of cows are cows and they grow up to do what cows do
...
...
...

we ARE children of God and we grow up to do what Gods do

"The offspring of cows are cows and they grow up to do what cows do......"

OK I think I understand your position a little more clearly now. It appears to me you're talking about some kind of pre-destination.
That we are all tiny little gods and will naturally grow up, just like the cow or the dog or the cat in your example, and become great big Gods.
So you're some kind of Mormon Calvinist?

Although your comment about cows, dogs and cats sounds quite reasonable (if not rather simplistic), I invite you to demonstrate this from the scriptures.

D&C 93:38
Ether 3:14
But you will not chose to understand

[Robin Hood]

.... they ARE the same thing. There is a doctrine taught by him and others that expains that, but it is not in the scriptures so

The church leadership have consistently taught that salvation is a free gift and is manifested by virtue of the resurrection.
Exaltation on the other hand is salvation in the Celestial Kingdom of God. Indeed, the very highest part of the Celestial Kingdom.
Therefore these two things are not the same.

I am assuming you know about the three degrees of glory etc.

Maybe I have assumed too much regarding your basic knowledge of the Plan of Salvation. I don't mean that as some kind of put down or anything. It's just that you appear to be espousing some kind of universalism; a doctrine roundly condemned in the Book of Mormon.

[Robin Hood]

All so, something you seem to have missed

the offspring of cats are cats and they grow up to do what cats do
the offspring of dogs are dogs and they grow up to do what dogs do
the offspring of cows are cows and they grow up to do what cows do
...
...
...

we ARE children of God and we grow up to do what Gods do

"The offspring of cows are cows and they grow up to do what cows do......"

OK I think I understand your position a little more clearly now. It appears to me you're talking about some kind of pre-destination.
That we are all tiny little gods and will naturally grow up, just like the cow or the dog or the cat in your example, and become great big Gods.
So you're some kind of Mormon Calvinist?

Although your comment about cows, dogs and cats sounds quite reasonable (if not rather simplistic), I invite you to demonstrate this from the scriptures.

D&C 93:38
Ether 3:14
But you will not chose to understand

D&C 93:38 is addressing the fact that infants are blameless before God. They can sin inasmuch as they can do something wrong and break a commandment, but they have been redeemed in their infant state by Christ's atoning sacrifice.
I don't see where it says we will become God.

Ether 3:14 is Christ addressing the truth that he is the father and the son and that those who are faithful and believe on his name will become his sons and daughters. Again, it doesn't say anything about becoming God, or the Son, or a preacher, or a carpenter..... I mean, how far are you taking this idea?

So, if this was your attempt to demonstrate your cow, dog and cat theology from the scriptures, it has to go down as a fail I'm afraid.

[Doug]

.... they ARE the same thing. There is a doctrine taught by him and others that expains that, but it is not in the scriptures so

The church leadership have consistently taught that salvation is a free gift and is manifested by virtue of the resurrection.
Exaltation on the other hand is salvation in the Celestial Kingdom of God. Indeed, the very highest part of the Celestial Kingdom.
Therefore these two things are not the same.

I am assuming you know about the three degrees of glory etc.

Maybe I have assumed too much regarding your basic knowledge of the Plan of Salvation. I don't mean that as some kind of put down or anything. It's just that you appear to be espousing some kind of universalism; a doctrine roundly condemned in the Book of Mormon.

You assume, that is what you condemn us for, assuming!
You don't know because you don't want to. You don't hunger and thirst after knowledge, you revel in ignorance.
You won't seek Joseph Smiths definition of salvation, you like to claim everyone who believes to be more ignorant than you.
You deny your heritage and lineage to maintain you position.

But you are a child of God.

[brlenox]

Doug,
Can you not see that there is more than one way to look at this?
I used to believe as you appear to do. But when I examined the scriptures for what they actually say, rather than what I had been told they say or wanted them to say, I found my previous position unsustainable.

In my view, you and others are making unjustified assumptions and wresting the scriptures to a certain extent.
I have simply stopped doing that and accepted that I don't know and am probably not supposed to know.

To answer your question about whether I want to be "God", the truth is, I don't care.
This is because I believe I have sufficient faith in God to trust him completely regarding my eternal welfare. The promises of scripture are there for me to read and to accept. I accept that he will do right by me and will never, ever let me down.
As Paul wrote to the Corinthians, "....eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him".

I would suggest this should be good enough for all of us.
Perhaps we would do well to quit counting our mansions on high and get to work in the here and now.

You have here presented another thinking pattern that is not consistent with proper understanding of God or his Gospel. It may be suitable for you and you will only move to the points in the eternities to which you have limited yourself but it is not correct.

I am going to try to illustrate this issue, using the scriptures but we are going to have to up the means of understanding to application of principles contained within the scriptures over the explicit contents of the verse. Many people do not have this ability but we shall see how it works for you.

The verses in question are these found in the Doctrine and covenants:

D & C 19:8-10

8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.

9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.

10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it!

The important observations to make are that the Lord is about to explain a mystery which he states "is meet" which is to say is proper, or right that they should know because they are his apostles. But the critical distinction is found in verse 9 "that you may enter into my rest". The point is that before these people could be qualified to enter into the rest of God (synonym for calling and election) there are certain points of knowledge that they must possess. Without that particular piece of knowledge they could not enter into God's "rest".

Verse 10 only points to this conversation as what we are discussing are points of the mystery of godliness which you claim you do not need to know certain things about and that you can simply trust that God will carry you along as an ignorant child who does not put forth the effort to own the blessing offered to you. This of course is another principle found in the scriptures when we consider the words of Abraham:

Abraham 1:2

And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.

In other words, you have a right and privilege to claim the blessings that God offers you. Nonchalance, ambivalence, fear, or other forms of carelessness will not afford you what you fail to claim. Seek after and claim what is yours to claim and I suspect you will do well.

[brlenox]

Those who have maintained their position on this issue have yet to provide a single evidential scriptural source for the their belief that we can become God. Instead, I am repeatedly asked, in effect, to prove a negative.

Hmmm. You make the above statement but I notice you have ignored my post wherein we can analyze your logic and see that the manner in which you claim to have made your determination is the opposite of the conclusion you espouse. I'm not saying that I find your logic compelling but it is what you have qualified as adequate for yourself.

Therefore my point in presenting the points I have is first, to illustrate you are not being consistent in your own thought processes and second to measure whether this is a conversation worth having because you actually have the capacity to step outside of misinformed opinion to actually trying to understand correct principles.

I seem to recall one other time where I engaged you on a subject and, if memory serves, you completely discounted the prophets as sources of truth and seemed limited to having only one point of influence - yourself. If that is correct and I remember this properly then I suspect that you may not be able to see other possibilities.

I'm not going to repeat myself and say the same thing individually to everyone.
Read my responses to Doug.

Doug does not address your own mistakes in logic and your egregious errors in thinking although several of his points are sound and should be compelling to you. I am using your own words to illustrate you have not given this subject the consideration you claim as you flat out disagree with yourself. You must understand I begin to fear for your safety because if we put both of you in a room with yourself I am not sure who would overcome the resulting cognitive dissonance.

[brlenox]

.... they ARE the same thing. There is a doctrine taught by him and others that expains that, but it is not in the scriptures so

The church leadership have consistently taught that salvation is a free gift and is manifested by virtue of the resurrection.
Exaltation on the other hand is salvation in the Celestial Kingdom of God. Indeed, the very highest part of the Celestial Kingdom.
Therefore these two things are not the same.

I am assuming you know about the three degrees of glory etc.

Maybe I have assumed too much regarding your basic knowledge of the Plan of Salvation. I don't mean that as some kind of put down or anything. It's just that you appear to be espousing some kind of universalism; a doctrine roundly condemned in the Book of Mormon.

If you are going to reference church leadership and their discussion of the highest levels of the celestial kingdom are you willing to except what they say about who resides there and what status they achieve? I have quotes if you are willing to explore...

[Robin Hood]

.... they ARE the same thing. There is a doctrine taught by him and others that expains that, but it is not in the scriptures so

The church leadership have consistently taught that salvation is a free gift and is manifested by virtue of the resurrection.
Exaltation on the other hand is salvation in the Celestial Kingdom of God. Indeed, the very highest part of the Celestial Kingdom.
Therefore these two things are not the same.

I am assuming you know about the three degrees of glory etc.

Maybe I have assumed too much regarding your basic knowledge of the Plan of Salvation. I don't mean that as some kind of put down or anything. It's just that you appear to be espousing some kind of universalism; a doctrine roundly condemned in the Book of Mormon.

You assume, that is what you condemn us for, assuming!
You don't know because you don't want to. You don't hunger and thirst after knowledge, you revel in ignorance.
You won't seek Joseph Smiths definition of salvation, you like to claim everyone who believes to be more ignorant than you.
You deny your heritage and lineage to maintain you position.

Stop beating about the bush and just say what you think.

[Robin Hood]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

[brlenox]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

Robin Hood
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

[brlenox]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

I would be more impressed if you actually addressed the very significant issues that I speak to in this post:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p796771

That you seem reluctant to do so is very telling.

[e-eye2.0]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

I would be more impressed if you actually addressed the very significant issues that I speak to in this post:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p796771

That you seem reluctant to do so is very telling.

Brlenox - I was just starting to enjoy the thread. Even if Robin Hood doesn't care for a course correction I would like to see your opinion on the matter and supporting information.

[brlenox]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

I would be more impressed if you actually addressed the very significant issues that I speak to in this post:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p796771

That you seem reluctant to do so is very telling.

Brlenox - I was just starting to enjoy the thread. Even if Robin Hood doesn't care for a course correction I would like to see your opinion on the matter and supporting information.

Very thoughtful of you, thank you.

I work best when I understand the direction of the person I am responding to. That is why I often ask questions, as I have done with Robin Hood here to flush out their clear point of view and perspective--and attitude. That way I am not just supporting a random direction that may not address the perspectives that are important to the person I am engaged in conversation with. So If you can direct my response with a little insight of your perspective or perhaps reiterate an element of this conversation that you would like to see addressed that would guide my efforts.

As you may have noted, because I often feel the need to address the entirety of a topic I cover too much and then lose people in my efforts. I would prefer to make the effort meaningful by developing it a tangent at a time according to your thoughts.

[Robin Hood]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

I would be more impressed if you actually addressed the very significant issues that I speak to in this post:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p796771

That you seem reluctant to do so is very telling.

Frankly, I have no interest in impressing you, nor anyone else for that matter.
I have learned a great lesson over the years; and that is that those who think they have some special knowledge concerning the mysteries of God, know less than next to nothing.
So go ahead and boast in your knowledge of the "very significant issues that (you) speak to". But remember that God is God and you are not.
Next to him both your understanding and my understanding, even on a good day, is puny and infantile at best.

[brlenox]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

I would be more impressed if you actually addressed the very significant issues that I speak to in this post:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p796771

That you seem reluctant to do so is very telling.

Frankly, I have no interest in impressing you, nor anyone else for that matter.
I have learned a great lesson over the years; and that is that those who think they have some special knowledge concerning the mysteries of God, know less than next to nothing.
So go ahead and boast in your knowledge of the "very significant issues that (you) speak to". But remember that God is God and you are not.
Next to him both your understanding and my understanding, even on a good day, is puny and infantile at best.

I have no difficulty with your observations but you speak like the person you claim I am. You clearly think you have some special knowledge. You have outlined how you came to your conclusions and my perspective is that you are simply wrong according to your own logic.

But you still fail to address that logic for some reasons.

My second bewilderment is purpose. Why do people come to a discussion forum and then take umbrage and refuse to engage in a discussion? When you responded the first time did you expect that everyone would simply just agree with you or are you able to discuss your perspectives objectively.

If you are afraid to openly address the specifics of others observations of your observations no one is benefited and instead of mature interaction it seems more like a petulant response to a genuine effort to try to expand understandings. I suggest that if you really don't want to discuss - then don't open a discussion with a response on a forum designed to encourage discussion. Just a thought, or two, or three, or ...

[Doug]

There is an only one way to become perdition, to tell God you no longer want his help.
And since God holds our agency sacred, he has no choice but to honor that.
The big problem with this is that perdition is now miserable, blames God and wants
Everyone else to agree with him.

It is clear you don't want help, you just want everyone to agree with you.
So I'm going to stop trying to help where it is not wanted.

[Alaris]

There is an only one way to become perdition, to tell God you no longer want his help.
And since God holds our agency sacred, he has no choice but to honor that.
The big problem with this is that perdition is now miserable, blames God and wants
Everyone else to agree with him.

It is clear you don't want help, you just want everyone to agree with you.
So I'm going to stop trying to help where it is not wanted.

How to become perdition is one of those mysteries many try to explain away without understanding other mysteries that may be required to fully understand ... the first mystery. Growing up in the church, the explanations I received at my questions always bothered me.

"How does one become perdition?"

"Well it's like really hard. You have to like know Jesus and then deny him."

After many years of study, mysteries unlocked here and there ... I still don't understand all the ends, or whether rebellious souls are taken from one creation into the next. I have heard the "they are recycled" theory which doesn't quite ring true.

My current understanding: Like just about everything in the gospel, it comes to down to agency. Do you choose A or B. Do you want C, then you must go through steps, D, E, F , etc. At any point someone can jump off the gospel train by their agency and say I choose Z - open rebellion.

Here's a thought provoking question ... if bodies are needed to progress, how were souls condemned to eternal outer darkness (or finite outer darkness ending in destruction) without ever having received a body?

[inho]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

I would be more impressed if you actually addressed the very significant issues that I speak to in this post:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p796771

That you seem reluctant to do so is very telling.

Brlenox - I was just starting to enjoy the thread. Even if Robin Hood doesn't care for a course correction I would like to see your opinion on the matter and supporting information.

Very thoughtful of you, thank you.

I work best when I understand the direction of the person I am responding to.

Brlenox, I am not sure if I understand the direction you are heading to in the linked post. The point you seem to make is that since Robin Hood referenced the title of this thread, you wanted to point out that Satan in the garden only said to Eve that men would become like gods with lower case g. You wanted to point this out, since this is RH's belief too. This I get. However, I don't understand the relevance of Alma 42:3. The way I read it, it says the exactly same thing as the snake in the Garden. Alma says the man had become as God, knowing good and evil. In other words, Alma refers to only one attribute of God, namely the knowledge of good and evil. This is the same thing Satan referred in the garden: ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Robin Hood asked for scriptural references of becoming like God in every possible way. Alma 42:3 refers to only one attribute. Am I missing something here?

[Robin Hood]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

I would be more impressed if you actually addressed the very significant issues that I speak to in this post:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p796771

That you seem reluctant to do so is very telling.

Brlenox - I was just starting to enjoy the thread. Even if Robin Hood doesn't care for a course correction I would like to see your opinion on the matter and supporting information.

Very thoughtful of you, thank you.

I work best when I understand the direction of the person I am responding to.

Brlenox, I am not sure if I understand the direction you are heading to in the linked post. The point you seem to make is that since Robin Hood referenced the title of this thread, you wanted to point out that Satan in the garden only said to Eve that men would become like gods with lower case g. You wanted to point this out, since this is RH's belief too. This I get. However, I don't understand the relevance of Alma 42:3. The way I read it, it says the exactly same thing as the snake in the Garden. Alma says the man had become as God, knowing good and evil. In other words, Alma refers to only one attribute of God, namely the knowledge of good and evil. This is the same thing Satan referred in the garden: ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Robin Hood asked for scriptural references of becoming like God in every possible way. Alma 42:3 refers to only one attribute. Am I missing something here?

You're not missing something.
You have put it much better than I could.

[Robin Hood]

It may have become apparent to some participating in this thread, that I do not share the view that we will become God in the sense of acquiring all of the attributes of the almighty, omnipotent, self-existent God we worship, and thus be prayed to and worshipped in our own right.

I have no problem believing that we can become a god through faithfulness and be rewarded by our Father with a position of authority in his enterprise (Moses 1:39); rather like joining the board of a family business, or even heading up a small subsidiary. But those over whom we exercise any authority (which will be the Father's authority, not ours) will pray to, worship and adore the same being we do.

I absolutely maintain that there is no scriptural evidence whatsoever that we will ever be God Almighty.
Indeed, the scriptures contain references to the inspiration which acts as the catalyst for such desires. Sample below:

Isaiah 14:13
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God....

Moses 4:1
...That Satan...came before me, saying............ wherefore give me thine honour.

Moses 4:3
... and also, that I should give unto him mine own power.....

More could be cited, but these are sufficient for my present purpose.

[Juliet]

This kind of stuff brings tons of questions to my mind.
Is Adam the only one who will become like God? But we all are supposed to have the chance.
Then what about Jesus, did God have to be a Jesus too.

I think Adam means "Many". I think this is where we misunderstand the atonement. To me, the atonement is that Jesus gained power over death because He was able to gain the wisdom and intelligence of His Father. Jesus had such a close relationship with Heavenly Father, that every time He was tempted, He was able to receive God's word and overcome the temptation. So when He suffered in gethsemane, what He did was experienced every kind of temptation that the adversary had and ever could use and every experience we would ever endure where our ignorance would cause sin and suffering. He was able to get the 'keys' on how to be delivered from every negative circumstance because of His ability to receive truth from God. When fully filled with the Spirit of truth, He became perfect, and overcame death.

Now, we are to gain that same wisdom Jesus did, by following Jesus' spirit and the Holy Ghost. We too, can gain the same knowledge Jesus did, but we don't have to earn it like Jesus did, we just have to receive it. It is like, Jesus invented electricity. Lets go a step further and say He invented free electricity. So now, anyone who goes to Jesus can get free electricity. It doesn't have to be reinvented because Jesus invented it for us.

Again, one person invented the fridge, now we all have a fridge. We don't all have to go invent the fridge now, because once 1 person invents it, we all get to share in the blessing of the invention.

So, Jesus was able to invent truth through the atonement that applies to us in every circumstance, and as a result, we can also receive perfect truth by living His commandments. And to those who follow Him, "he gives commandments not a few." (D&C59:4)

So, God had all truth, we don't know how He got it, but He did, and Jesus downloaded it while in the flesh into a compatible form with the human existence. Now, we all have the opportunity to become like God, because the information is downloadable via Christ's atonement, whereby He gained the keys for Human salvation and now willingly shares them with us as we keep His commandments.

We don't suffer against all the sin to become like God, we just have to adhere to the Spirit of truth that was made possible to receive by Christ's atonement. And that is how we can all become like God. Jesus paved the way, now we can follow it and make it home.

[Doug]

What did Jesus Do? ‘Why I do the things I saw my father do when worlds came rolling into existence, my Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my father so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, an it will exalt Him in glory, He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself.’
(Excerpts from the King Follet Discourse, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345-348)

This is the process of eternal progression.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
...

This is not my doctrine.
This is not Joseph's doctrine.
This is not the Son's doctrine.
This is not the Father's doctrine.
This is not the Grand Father's doctrine.
This is eternal doctrine.

[Robin Hood]

What did Jesus Do? ‘Why I do the things I saw my father do when worlds came rolling into existence, my Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my father so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, an it will exalt Him in glory, He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself.’
(Excerpts from the King Follet Discourse, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345-348)

This is the process of eternal progression.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
A world is created to be the residence of the Children of a Father.
The Father's eldest Son Redeems that world and presents it to his Father.
The Father becomes a Grand Father.
The Son Becomes a Father and has Spirit Children.
...

This is not my doctrine.
This is not Joseph's doctrine.
This is not the Son's doctrine.
This is not the Father's doctrine.
This is not the Grand Father's doctrine.
This is eternal doctrine.

I know I said I was finished with this thread, but I just have to comment on the above.
Well, in fact, post a question or two.

1. What happens to all the ones who are not the eldest son?
If I understand your model correctly, it appears to condemn the rest of us (and we're talking billions here) to something less than becoming God (thus it appears you actually agree with me after all!). In fact, it appears this world was created and populated solely for the purpose of providing a vehicle for the eldest son to become God.

2. Daughters? Does your model not suggest that women get a pretty easy ride on one level, but are ultimately damned?

[brlenox]

Brlenox, Doug,
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.
Clearly you need a little more maturity in the gospel, and possibly a deeper reverence and humility regarding your standing before Almighty God. Remember Moses' experience?
I'm sure you'll find out for yourselves one day.
I wish you well.

I would be more impressed if you actually addressed the very significant issues that I speak to in this post:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 30#p796771

That you seem reluctant to do so is very telling.

Brlenox - I was just starting to enjoy the thread. Even if Robin Hood doesn't care for a course correction I would like to see your opinion on the matter and supporting information.

Very thoughtful of you, thank you.

I work best when I understand the direction of the person I am responding to.

Brlenox, I am not sure if I understand the direction you are heading to in the linked post. The point you seem to make is that since Robin Hood referenced the title of this thread, you wanted to point out that Satan in the garden only said to Eve that men would become like gods with lower case g. You wanted to point this out, since this is RH's belief too. This I get. However, I don't understand the relevance of Alma 42:3. The way I read it, it says the exactly same thing as the snake in the Garden. Alma says the man had become as God, knowing good and evil. In other words, Alma refers to only one attribute of God, namely the knowledge of good and evil. This is the same thing Satan referred in the garden: ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Robin Hood asked for scriptural references of becoming like God in every possible way. Alma 42:3 refers to only one attribute. Am I missing something here?

My point with Robinhood is simply that he claimed by inference that Satan had stated that we could become as "God" (big G) and that we should not allow the words of "Satan to Eve" to become our doctrine i.e. that we could become as "GOD". He then implied that he firmly believed we were "gods" "little g" and that all of his research had brought him to the point that he could except that we were "gods" (little g) and that this was a major distinction between becoming a BIG G God.

My point was that according to scripture Satan claimed that we could become little g gods only. Therefore his observation was that we should not build our doctrine on the words of Satan to EVE but he had done exactly that. He claimed that Satan was perfectly correct and that all man could attain was the little g god state of being. In other words Robin Hood disagreed with Robin Hood. I also would expect that if he had thought I had mischaracterized his point of view that he would correct me and illustrate where I had erred.

My point with the Alma verse was to illustrate that at least one scripture was out there that man was as GOD (Big G). My point being that if a prophet of the Book of Mormon intimated that man was as a God, (Big G)then was he willing to accept the error of his method of evaluation and pursue additional material that discussed this possibility further.

Now to put this all in perspective, little "g" big "G" is not a particularly relevant point in the least. I would never use any sort of comparison between "G's" and "g" as it is just not the degree of relevance that Robin Hood gave it. This is not my line of reasoning and I consider it sorrowfully lacking as a process of conclusion to say the least. However, it was the evidence the Robin put forth that he claimed was compelling to him. So to respond to him my first effort was to solicit his own claims and show him that the way he had defined things was clearly inconsistent with himself and then to invite him to further discussion on the subject to illustrate the many sources, scripture and prophetic and apostolic commentary which illustrate that the Doctrine of Godhood embraced the concepts of becoming as God ( bid "G"). To date Robin Hood has not manifest any interest in exploring why this doctrine is so widely accepted and what the valid sources are that speak to the material. He is one of the several that lock onto an unfoundated opinion and then it becomes their gospel. I worry about individuals who can be so self affirming, stating clearly that they know the truth and everyone else around them is wrong and in poor standing with God (of the Big "G) because they have a confirmed belief that is in opposition to prophets and apostles. We one can adamantly continue in this path there is risk involved.

Now one final point is that when one truly understands the doctrine of "G"odhood, there is some possibilities found in the quotes and scriptures that allow for some different informed speculations that actually Robin Hood might be inclined to like and accept however we cannot get to those perspectives because he lacks the ability to converse and dialogue and discuss without getting emotionally distraught by having to defend an undefendable position.