An Old Nephite Coin

[larsenb]

. . . .
Grover's translation of the Anthon characters seems to be randomly selected from the text instead of Joseph selecting a particularly profound or inspiring section of the record to use as a sample. . . . .

Did you notice my comment about the high count of number-related information packets? You could make a case that Joseph's selection was inspired to target this type of section, because of the key role deciphering the numbers would play any future attempt to translate the passage.

[oneClimbs]

Did you notice my comment about the high count of number-related information packets? You could make a case that Joseph's selection was inspired to target this type of section, because of the key role deciphering the numbers would play any future attempt to translate the passage.

Yeah, I can see that as a legitimate premise.

[JohnnyL]

Taken from the Deseret Evening News of Oct. 14, 1916.
...

There is one place in southern Utah which no Indian would cross in the night time for any consideration, nor by daylight if possible to avoid it--a place three or four miles in extent. They say a great battle occurred here, lasting three days, until one could walk for miles upon dead bodies without touching the ground, and that at night they can hear the wailing of the dead. There are several places in southern Utah where large, smooth-faced rocks are covered with inscriptions which the Indians say tell of these great events. I, myself, have seen those inscriptions in several places, but of course their meanings to me were unknown.

Location? =p~

Anything? Anybody? =p~

[RAB]

But his work on the 'Anton script' translation appears to be both monumental and phenomenal. I've downloaded it and will be broadcasting it. What he basically did is start deciphering and parsing out the number-related characters, then went on from there. A case could me made that the choice of the original Nephite script was inspired to target a passage that included many number-related information packets, for the very purpose of allowing a futuristic translation.

If Grover's translation is even close to being correct it reveals something else that I found interesting. Very little of what that translation contains matches word for word what we find in the Book of Mormon. It looks as if some of the events mentioned are in an extremely abridged state. If that is true, then Joseph Smith was not getting all of the information off of the plates alone. Remember, he didn't translate them like a linguist would, he used the Interpreters and seer stones. He may have never known what those characters even meant which would be even more evidenced by the fact that Grover's translation of the Anthon characters seems to be randomly selected from the text instead of Joseph selecting a particularly profound or inspiring section of the record to use as a sample. It's pretty interesting stuff for sure.

The textual criticism of the BoM transcript seems to indicate that he saw words 15 to 20 at a time appear, and once they were properly recorded, those would disappear and he would see a new batch of words, making sure the scribe had correctly transcribed and spelled the names. Of course, he never told anyone exactly what he saw, but as BYU professors explained, the manuscript has larger spaces every fifteen to 20 words, indicating a pause in writing. I watched a whole presentation on it from some BYU professors. It was pretty fascinating stuff, as is this. I always assumed Christ stayed for a pretty short time, but the translation makes it known that He stayed with the Nephites almost a whole year. Just incredible.

[larsenb]

Did you notice my comment about the high count of number-related information packets? You could make a case that Joseph's selection was inspired to target this type of section, because of the key role deciphering the numbers would play any future attempt to translate the passage.

Yeah, I can see that as a legitimate premise.

Yesterday, I talked to a PhD archaeologist about Grover's work. He had not been too impressed with it, when he heard Grover talk on the subject at the last BMAF Conference, which I missed.

Someday, I may put an effort into assessing what he has done and put out as a free *.pdf file.

[BeNotDeceived]

Yap and Palau both still have stone money.
http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/go ... 71b6c.html



Try and put that in your pocket.

The ‘Ants coin and eye-of-providence are images from the dollar that I thought would make for a cool silver-dollar. I found it watching over the playground that went unscathed during one of America’s greatest tragedies.  https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4 ... 4aea86efeb

Any geocachers?

[oneClimbs]

Did you notice my comment about the high count of number-related information packets? You could make a case that Joseph's selection was inspired to target this type of section, because of the key role deciphering the numbers would play any future attempt to translate the passage.

Yeah, I can see that as a legitimate premise.

Yesterday, I talked to a PhD archaeologist about Grover's work. He had not been too impressed with it, when he heard Grover talk on the subject at the last BMAF Conference, which I missed.

Someday, I may put an effort into assessing what he has done and put out as a free *.pdf file.

The pdf has quite a bit of information in it, a talk wouldn't get you that deep. There are a couple parts where you'll be thinking "Well this is kind of a stretch" and others where you go, "whoa." It's a mixed bag and he at least acknowledges that much. It's a first attempt and he seems to be sharing this to hopefully prompt further interest and research. It is the numbers that interest me and how so many of them match up right in line with known dates in the Book of Mormon. It was understanding the numbers that caused researchers to be able to unlock and read the Mayan language. Grover took the same approach with the Anthon Transcript, he was looking for numbers. I think that's not a bad place to start.

Moroni said that they used altered versions of Egyptian and Hebrew. They called their altered characters "reformed Egyptian" so these were not completely different characters, they had just been modified somehow. They altered the Egyptian characters to match the way they spoke. Their languages have been altered enough to where nobody else knew them and interpreters were needed. I don't think that this means that one couldn't somehow crack aspects of the language, but there would probably be a bunch of holes that were impossible to fill not knowing their culture and manner of speech. You could probably get the gist of things but that wouldn't be enough to extrapolate scripture.

So one might say that any attempt of translating characters from the plates is impossible. I don't believe that. They didn't write in code, they used altered versions of existing languages and still considered them Egyptian and Hebrew so there should still be at least some similarities. They've cracked Mayan without a Rosetta stone and I think any language that you know is already based on an existing one should at least be partially able to be read with the right research.

This is a great documentary by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL6_FMqyNns

[larsenb]

Did you notice my comment about the high count of number-related information packets? You could make a case that Joseph's selection was inspired to target this type of section, because of the key role deciphering the numbers would play any future attempt to translate the passage.

Yeah, I can see that as a legitimate premise.

Yesterday, I talked to a PhD archaeologist about Grover's work. He had not been too impressed with it, when he heard Grover talk on the subject at the last BMAF Conference, which I missed.

Someday, I may put an effort into assessing what he has done and put out as a free *.pdf file.

The pdf has quite a bit of information in it, a talk wouldn't get you that deep. There are a couple parts where you'll be thinking "Well this is kind of a stretch" and others where you go, "whoa." It's a mixed bag and he at least acknowledges that much. It's a first attempt and he seems to be sharing this to hopefully prompt further interest and research. It is the numbers that interest me and how so many of them match up right in line with known dates in the Book of Mormon. It was understanding the numbers that caused researchers to be able to unlock and read the Mayan language. Grover took the same approach with the Anthon Transcript, he was looking for numbers. I think that's not a bad place to start.

Moroni said that they used altered versions of Egyptian and Hebrew. They called their altered characters "reformed Egyptian" so these were not completely different characters, they had just been modified somehow. They altered the Egyptian characters to match the way they spoke. Their languages have been altered enough to where nobody else knew them and interpreters were needed. I don't think that this means that one couldn't somehow crack aspects of the language, but there would probably be a bunch of holes that were impossible to fill not knowing their culture and manner of speech. You could probably get the gist of things but that wouldn't be enough to extrapolate scripture.

So one might say that any attempt of translating characters from the plates is impossible. I don't believe that. They didn't write in code, they used altered versions of existing languages and still considered them Egyptian and Hebrew so there should still be at least some similarities. They've cracked Mayan without a Rosetta stone and I think any language that you know is already based on an existing one should at least be partially able to be read with the right research.

This is a great documentary by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL6_FMqyNns

Good analysis. Sounds plausible. Thanks. I'll hit your link later.

[claricia55]

I don't like being a nay sayer but that sounds really fishy to me. Secondly that is a LOT to fit on a coin rachat de crédit. Thirdly, I don't think the Nephite system used coins, weights were probably more practical.

I thought it had to do with currencies. Anyway, happy to be among you.