Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

Robin Hood wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 5:06 amReally?
You surprise me, because we manufacture them exclusively for the American market.
Apparently you guys can't get enough of them. Some chap with the initials "KKK" apparently.
Are you saying that the UK manufactures and supplies hats for secret combinations, and you support this?

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

Serragon wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 11:29 am
Spaced_Out wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 1:10 am
Serragon wrote: May 1st, 2017, 4:26 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: May 1st, 2017, 5:20 am
Americans have crated more bloodshed and horror than any other nation on the earth all under the name of democracy - ISIS, Iran N.Korea Cuba, Somalia etc are all products of American hate and deservedly so....
This is simply false. I am amazed that anyone could feel comfortable proselytizing a message like this when the truth is so readily available. You have to be extremely willfully ignorant to believe nonsense like this. There is no equation you can create where you can show the those tyrannical deathpits to be the product of the USA.

We definately have our sins to repent of. But in the scheme of things, western culture has been a bright light in an otherwise abysmally dark world. The very fact you can evangelize a ridiculous sentiment like you did is evidence of such.
:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
America has destabilised and impoverished countless countries, Just as an example Ukraine, Libya, Afghanistan, and Syria were the latest CIA interference that started those wars. I fought in Angola and Namibia a war started by the US tying to prevent Russian influence in Africa. Angola today has the highest percentage of cripples. Where ever America interferes it leaves a trail of destruction. America is also the number one exporter of vice like porn and abortion.

If one had to do a real body count the US will be on top of the list by a factor of 10... You still believe all that propaganda they teach in the US schools.. haha you guys are too busy killing your own children to even care, and we won't talk about the Laminate genocide 50-100 million..

Abortions +60 million 300,000 just this year to date.
http://www.numberofabortions.com/

Just as an example - Korean War 1.5 million...

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world ... ast-facts/
U.S. Troops Statistics:
Source: Dept. of Defense
U.S. Deaths:
Hostile: 33,739
Non-Hostile: 2,835
Total In-Theatre: 36,574
U.S. Wounded in Action - 103,284
Other Casualties by Country (killed and missing):
Source: Encyclopedia Britannica
South Korea - (217,000 military, 1,000,000 civilian)
North Korea - (406,000 military, 600,000 civilian)
China - (600,000 military)

Numbers without context are just that.. numbers.

There is a vast difference between the Korean War and what Joseph Stalin did. There is a difference between offense and defense. You are drawing equivalency where it doesn't exist and then concluding the US is the worse by a significant measure.

You have accused others in this thread of having their minds fogged and not being able to think. I think a look in the mirror is in order.
Talk about pulling numbers out of thin air. I wonder how many people that practice this attended the Pierce Morgan School of Magic.

Dave62
destroyer of hopes & dreams
Posts: 1323
Location: Rural Australia

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Dave62 »

Oh for Pete's sake! What a dreadful discussion that has descended into a sledging match. X( "Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?" If you are an American Saint, yes, of course! If you are not an American Saint, you should be aware of its principles but it would be unwise to abide by it. How hard is this concept?

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

Dave62 wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 3:14 pm Oh for Pete's sake! What a dreadful discussion that has descended into a sledging match. X( "Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?" If you are an American Saint, yes, of course! If you are not an American Saint, you should be aware of its principles but it would be unwise to abide by it. How hard is this concept?
President Benson asked the "Saints", apparently everywhere since GC is telecast all around the world, to read "None Dare Call It Conspiracy". How many did read it? How many said it didn't apply to them? How many said, Pres, you're nuts?
Did he ask people to read it just to flap his lips?
I've read it. Lundbaek has read it, and a few others.
Have you read it?
The concept is very hard when people ignore counsel.

The Constitution is for ALL FLESH according to God. We may not fully understand why, but God said also:

8 ¶ For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by eddie »

Spaced_Out wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 1:30 am
BrianM wrote: May 1st, 2017, 4:10 pm So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Those guys represent a nation or were life presidents. US president only in office a few years t not applicable. See my previous post the US nation has killed and cause/ funded more wars than any other nation.
The name Spaced Out is fitting.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

eddie wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 7:43 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 1:30 am
BrianM wrote: May 1st, 2017, 4:10 pm So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Those guys represent a nation or were life presidents. US president only in office a few years t not applicable. See my previous post the US nation has killed and cause/ funded more wars than any other nation.
The name Spaced Out is fitting.
Image

eddie
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2405

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by eddie »

freedomforall wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 9:18 pm
eddie wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 7:43 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 1:30 am
BrianM wrote: May 1st, 2017, 4:10 pm So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Those guys represent a nation or were life presidents. US president only in office a few years t not applicable. See my previous post the US nation has killed and cause/ funded more wars than any other nation.
The name Spaced Out is fitting.
Image

You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's the signpost up ahead - your next stop, the Twilight Zone!
Read more at http://www.notable-quotes.com/s/serling ... rA5RzdI.99

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13112
Location: England

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Robin Hood »

freedomforall wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 1:15 pm
Robin Hood wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 5:06 amReally?
You surprise me, because we manufacture them exclusively for the American market.
Apparently you guys can't get enough of them. Some chap with the initials "KKK" apparently.
Are you saying that the UK manufactures and supplies hats for secret combinations, and you support this?
Yep, anything to make a quid or two.
Let's face it, they can't be very clever secret combinations if they have to source their head gear from abroad. Either that, or they use them as huge ice cream cones!

Spaced_Out
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Spaced_Out »

eddie wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 7:43 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 1:30 am
BrianM wrote: May 1st, 2017, 4:10 pm So we need a graphic showing which US presidents killed the most people...
Those guys represent a nation or were life presidents. US president only in office a few years t not applicable. See my previous post the US nation has killed and cause/ funded more wars than any other nation.
The name Spaced Out is fitting.
I gave references and there are hundreds of references on the stats that I posted. The US is greatest mass murdered of all time - the great whore of Babylon. You can live in denial all you like but soon the US in its current form will be no more, as it has not repented.
Wilford Woodruff wrote: I will here say that God has inspired me to keep a journal and write the history of this Church, and I warn the future historians to give credence to my history; for my testimony is true, and the truth of its record will be manifest in the world to come.

All the words of the Lord will be fulfilled upon the nations, which are written in this book. The American nation will be broken in pieces like a potter’s vessel, and will be cast down to hell, if it does not repent, and this, because of murders, whoredoms, wickedness, and all manner of abominations, for the Lord has spoken it. (Matthias F. Cowley, Wilford Woodruff, p.500)
The BoM clearly states that the people on the promised land must keep the commandments or be swept away, the big broom is coming in a few months :-ss :-ss :-ss .

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13112
Location: England

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Robin Hood »

freedomforall wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 6:22 pm

The Constitution is for ALL FLESH according to God.

And what do you think "all flesh" means?
Dogs?
Salmon?
Amoeba?

Seems to me you want to take things literally...... but not too literally.

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13112
Location: England

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Robin Hood »

Dave62 wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 3:14 pm Oh for Pete's sake! What a dreadful discussion that has descended into a sledging match. X( "Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?" If you are an American Saint, yes, of course! If you are not an American Saint, you should be aware of its principles but it would be unwise to abide by it. How hard is this concept?
Spot on Dave62.
Someone speaking sense at last.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

Robin Hood wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 6:23 am
freedomforall wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 6:22 pm

The Constitution is for ALL FLESH according to God.

And what do you think "all flesh" means?
Dogs?
Salmon?
Amoeba?

Seems to me you want to take things literally...... but not too literally.
Yes, "all flesh" have a constitution almost daily. The only people that should study it are lab personnel looking for internal discrepancies and/or constitutional problems that require immediate attention...termed as "Constitutional Amendments."

Is this literal enough?

User avatar
Robin Hood
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 13112
Location: England

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Robin Hood »

freedomforall wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 2:56 pm
Robin Hood wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 6:23 am
freedomforall wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 6:22 pm

The Constitution is for ALL FLESH according to God.

And what do you think "all flesh" means?
Dogs?
Salmon?
Amoeba?

Seems to me you want to take things literally...... but not too literally.
Yes, "all flesh" have a constitution almost daily. The only people that should study it are lab personnel looking for internal discrepancies and/or constitutional problems that require immediate attention...termed as "Constitutional Amendments."

Is this literal enough?
No. :)

Spaced_Out
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Spaced_Out »

freedomforall wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 2:56 pm
Robin Hood wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 6:23 am
freedomforall wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 6:22 pm

The Constitution is for ALL FLESH according to God.

And what do you think "all flesh" means?
Dogs?
Salmon?
Amoeba?

Seems to me you want to take things literally...... but not too literally.
Yes, "all flesh" have a constitution almost daily. The only people that should study it are lab personnel looking for internal discrepancies and/or constitutional problems that require immediate attention...termed as "Constitutional Amendments."

Is this literal enough?
Obama was a constitutional lawyer and did more of a study of it than most, he also did more than most to go against it's principles.
What does the constitution say on same sex marriage, gay rights, abortion etc...

True freedom is being free from sin, as sin is slavery. Again too late for the constitution.

The same principles contained in the constitution are found in much clearer and easier to understand in the BoM, D&C and Bible. Hence the prophets have called again at last GC to read the BoM and scriptures. Now you preach some another doctrine....

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

Spaced_Out wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 8:39 pm
freedomforall wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 2:56 pm
Robin Hood wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 6:23 am
freedomforall wrote: May 2nd, 2017, 6:22 pm

The Constitution is for ALL FLESH according to God.

And what do you think "all flesh" means?
Dogs?
Salmon?
Amoeba?

Seems to me you want to take things literally...... but not too literally.
Yes, "all flesh" have a constitution almost daily. The only people that should study it are lab personnel looking for internal discrepancies and/or constitutional problems that require immediate attention...termed as "Constitutional Amendments."

Is this literal enough?
Obama was a constitutional lawyer and did more of a study of it than most, he also did more than most to go against it's principles.
What does the constitution say on same sex marriage, gay rights, abortion etc...

True freedom is being free from sin, as sin is slavery. Again too late for the constitution.

The same principles contained in the constitution are found in much clearer and easier to understand in the BoM, D&C and Bible. Hence the prophets have called again at last GC to read the BoM and scriptures. Now you preach some another doctrine....
=)) =)) =)) =)) Someone needs to read my statement and explain it to you. It has nothing to do with scripture, GC or another doctrine. It is, however, a play on the English language. A dictionary and thesaurus may be useful.

Now, for a serious note: The US Constitution is not outmoded; it is not outdated, it is not void or useless. It is for a righteous people. A good share of Americans have chosen wickedness over living God's laws, thus, ignoring the Constitution and wanting to discard it. The Lord said he made us free, but people don't want freedom, essentially telling God to get lost.
President Benson said that for those who will not stand for freedom will have their eternal progression jeopardized and that they don't deserve citizenship in this country. He said the Constitution is akin to scripture, both having come from God and that the American flag would be floating on the breeze when the Savior comes.

Spaced_Out
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Spaced_Out »

freedomforall wrote: May 3rd, 2017, 11:19 pm
Now, for a serious note: The US Constitution is not outmoded; it is not outdated, it is not void or useless. It is for a righteous people. A good share of Americans have chosen wickedness over living God's laws, thus, ignoring the Constitution and wanting to discard it. The Lord said he made us free, but people don't want freedom, essentially telling God to get lost.
President Benson said that for those who will not stand for freedom will have their eternal progression jeopardized and that they don't deserve citizenship in this country. He said the Constitution is akin to scripture, both having come from God and that the American flag would be floating on the breeze when the Savior comes.
Good post finally coming to some sort of understanding. Yes just like the BoM is not our of date. What is very much in date is the current words and counsel of the Prophets, Apostles and General Authorities, so that is where our current priorities should be placed.

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by lundbaek »

We are being given prophetic priorities from our prophets and apostles. And learning, upholding and abiding by the principles of the US Constitution is not among them any longer. Nor is awakening to our awful situation and doing something about the secret combinations getting control of government among them any longer. But those admonitions and commandments have never been repealed. They were, apparently,just too much for most members of the Church to cope with back then and now.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

This Article was serialized in 20 segments which appeared on the editorial page (page 4) of The Deseret News, 19 March 1945 through 10 April 1945.

Chapter Titles:
1. The Unknown Constitution
2. The Convention Which Framed It
3. The Men Who Made It
4. The People Who Adopted It
5. The People Rule
6. Democracy Attempts Suicide
7. These Inalienable Rights Belong To All Mankind
8. Americans Have Their Rights
9. You Have The Right To Work
10. Shall It Be Jehovah Or Baal
11. "Privilege Of Speech Is Granted"
12. The People Create A Government of Laws
13. America Chooses A Successor To George III
14. 'When The Wicked Rule The People Mourn'
15. Thus Saith The Supreme Court: It Shall Not Stand
16. The Congress Shall Have Power
17. Bureaucracy Comes of Age
18.Has Congress Failed Us?
19. The People Change Their Government
20. It Is A Rising Sun

http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/tal ... const.html"

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by lundbaek »

I guess I should have phrased the title of this thread "Should the members of the Church still study and live by the U.S. Constitution ?" That is how a friend of mine worded the question to one of the senior apostles during a home teaching visit. The apostle replied "Absolutely !" And my friend added "He seemed quite disgusted about what is going on in this country but reiterated that the the Constitution has not become less, but more important in our day."

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

Wouldn't it be cool if several wealthy Mormons pooled some money and purchased or built a radio station for the sole purpose of teaching the Constitution, the Federalist Papers and every other source pertaining to freedom and liberty? How we are not a Democracy, but a Republic? And even having listeners call in with questions? They could also quote prophets that have spoken about the Constitution and how church members have neglected to follow counsel. They could read ETB's book An Enemy Hath Done This and Gary Allen's book None Dare Call It Conspiracy. And the list goes on.

Spaced_Out
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Spaced_Out »

freedomforall wrote: May 5th, 2017, 7:37 pm [April 1945.
[/size]
Chapter Titles:
6. Democracy Attempts Suicide
18.Has Congress Failed Us?
19. The People Change Their Government
http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/tal ... const.html"
The US constitution has progressed and changed in the 72 years since the article was published. One should ask the question which constitution we should study.
freedomforall wrote: May 5th, 2017, 9:22 pm Wouldn't it be cool if several wealthy Mormons pooled some money and purchased or built a radio station for the sole purpose of teaching the Constitution, the Federalist Papers and every other source pertaining to freedom and liberty? How we are not a Democracy, but a Republic? And even having listeners call in with questions? They could also quote prophets that have spoken about the Constitution and how church members have neglected to follow counsel. They could read ETB's book An Enemy Hath Done This and Gary Allen's book None Dare Call It Conspiracy. And the list goes on.
Perhaps but people are not interested as they are too busy in FB or YouTube etc... It will end up becoming a legal advice station if it even survived a week.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

Spaced_Out wrote: May 5th, 2017, 10:30 pmThe US constitution has progressed and changed in the 72 years since the article was published. One should ask the question which constitution we should study.
The answer is an easy one.

The Constitution of the Founding Fathers
By Jerome Horowitz Attorney at Law

“We must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers.” Ezra Taft Benson

Spaced_Out
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1795

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by Spaced_Out »

freedomforall wrote: May 5th, 2017, 10:47 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: May 5th, 2017, 10:30 pmThe US constitution has progressed and changed in the 72 years since the article was published. One should ask the question which constitution we should study.
The answer is an easy one.

The Constitution of the Founding Fathers
By Jerome Horowitz Attorney at Law

“We must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers.” Ezra Taft Benson
Ok,Now the question is how do you live and apply that version of the constitution as the laws have been changed. We are told we need to obey and sustain the law of the land we are in irrespective if they are corrupt or not. The requirement is for all people or you could say all flesh.
Basically you are creating disorder and 'raising up an insurrection against the government - as the laws are will of the people this is not according to church requirements and teachings of the scriptures. By preaching such a thing you could be called in for church disciplinary action. :-\

This is a very dangerous doctrine you preach and teach - it is not supported by the current teaching of the general authorities of the LDS church, your put your counsel above theirs. Hence why it is no longer taught.....
Similarly the Scriptures teach us we should live the law of consecration but the time is not yet...

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by lundbaek »

"Which Constitution should we study?" In October 1988 the Prophet told us that "We must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers."

I am not suggesting that we ignore the current prophetic priorities. But I do believe that Latter-day Saints still have a doctrinal imperative to preserve liberty.

American Independence Day is not far off. May I suggest that those of you who feel up to it suggest to your bishop that you or someone give a talk the last Sunday in June about the Declaration of Independence and about the Lord's hand in establishing the United States.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Should Members of the Church Study and Abide by the US Constitution?

Post by freedomforall »

Spaced_Out wrote: May 6th, 2017, 6:12 am
freedomforall wrote: May 5th, 2017, 10:47 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: May 5th, 2017, 10:30 pmThe US constitution has progressed and changed in the 72 years since the article was published. One should ask the question which constitution we should study.
The answer is an easy one.

The Constitution of the Founding Fathers
By Jerome Horowitz Attorney at Law

“We must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers.” Ezra Taft Benson
Ok,Now the question is how do you live and apply that version of the constitution as the laws have been changed. We are told we need to obey and sustain the law of the land we are in irrespective if they are corrupt or not. The requirement is for all people or you could say all flesh.
Basically you are creating disorder and 'raising up an insurrection against the government - as the laws are will of the people this is not according to church requirements and teachings of the scriptures. By preaching such a thing you could be called in for church disciplinary action. :-\

This is a very dangerous doctrine you preach and teach - it is not supported by the current teaching of the general authorities of the LDS church, your put your counsel above theirs. Hence why it is no longer taught.....
Similarly the Scriptures teach us we should live the law of consecration but the time is not yet...
Tell me, who has more clout, man or God?
If you think we shouldn't do as God directs then you may want to throw your Doctrine and Covenants away. After all, they are 175 +/- years old. Additionally, if current prophets, GA's or Sunday School teachers teach other than what we read in scripture...scripture that we are constantly hounded and prodded to study, then therein lies the problem.
And this insurrection against the government stuff is a laugh. Ever heard of the Declaration of Independence, something that has only been used as toilet paper ever since it was written?
It is crooked politicians and socialistic minded people that caused some of the adverse changes you refer. God didn't raise up men to bring about the Constitution just to have it changed so much that it no longer has its original meaning and purpose. Old Scratch has so many people by the short hairs that evil has distorted every aspect of what used to be good and right. Even some LDS's have endorsed these evil changes, some have even fomented evil changes because they didn't like the way God set it up.

Another thing, did you know there are two Constitutions? One is the Founder's document, the other is the Judicial branch version. Read http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/jh_gk/index.html

Also read An Enemy Hath Done This by Ezra Taft Benson
The Elders of Israel and the Constitution http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/jh_eic/index.html
Prophets, Principles and National Survival http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/ind ... index.html
The Book of Mormon and the Constitution http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/bofmc/index.html
The Constitution of the Founding Fathers http://www.inspiredconstitution.org/jh_cff/index.html

Post Reply