The Earth is Not a Globe!?! Is God literal, water above and below the firmament?

[braingrunt]

having now listened to the "litmus test" video, it also made a number of key errors; but thankfully nothing QUITE as bad as the Dubay flat gravity mixed with round earth nonsense.

[braingrunt]

As I watch more, the astronomical scriptures I posted are simply incompatible with these flat earth ideas. (Those that I have seen so far)

[cayenne]

As I watch more, the astronomical scriptures I posted are simply incompatible with these flat earth ideas. (Those that I have seen so far)

I am curious what you think of this article

http://www.14lds.com/flat.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By the way brain grunt, I really appreciate your actually looking into this. This is how this forum should be, people able to post back and forth with ideas, agreements, disagreements, and yet keep it peaceful with a nice exchange of ideas/truths, etc. if people are firm in understanding something, they can still keep it kind and peaceful instead of I am right you are wrong replays.

I have a lot of things i am firm in, this flat earth i am not firm in, but I am firm in a lot of conspiracy truths and I know we are lied to a lot. I know my own eyes are seeing things that don't add up to mainstream curvature math, and you have various NASA people today saying we have never been out of low earth orbit, etc.

I hope everyone can keep kind, and let this subject be fun....lets keep exchanging ideas and whatever. This isn't a polygamy thread or Adam-god or follow the prophet thread that gets soooo heated so we should be ok......

[Spaced_Out]

Earth is a globe anyone who thinks otherwise is smoking too much happy stuff. It is totally madness to think of the earth being flat.

I have done many international flights and the flight path that they take as well as observations from high altitude. I do a lot of survey work and theory of coordinate calculations it is impossible to accurately plot a location on the earth without taking into consideration the curvature of the earth. The US, Russia and Eu all have systems of satellites (min of 24) that are programmed as part of GPS system - these satellites revolve around the earth (globe) once every 24 hours and the data can be viewed in real time. Just look at google earth.
All the other planets are round when viewed from space as well as when viewed from probes sent to them. Likewise if one is on the mood the earth is round. It is not just NASA there have been astronauts from many many countries that have photographed the earth from space. All our navigation systems for hundreds of years have been based on round earth - they work precisely and accurately. They have installed reflectors on the moon so the distance from earth to the moon can be calculated down to millimeters. reading the reflectors takes cognizance of the round earth rotation.

Weather systems and ocean currents - bird migrations, the earths magnetic poles simply cant be explained otherwise. The Nephite writings and the scriptures make it clear the earth is round.

For less than $100 you can take your own pic of outer space at the edge of the atmosphere and prove yourself wrong. I pity the flat earth guys trying to navigate post apocalypse using their flat earth theory. The early explores proved conclusively the earth is not flat. Not even sure why we are discussing this it is stupid.

Teens capture images of space with £56 camera and balloon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... lloon.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

British 19-Year-Old Takes Incredible Satellite Pictures Using a £30 Camera and a Helium Balloon.
http://inhabitat.com/british-19-year-ol ... m-balloon/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Spaced_Out]

10 Absurd Claims Of Modern Flat Earth Conspiracy Theorists
http://listverse.com/2016/02/01/10-absu ... theorists/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Charles Lindbergh made the first Atlantic crossing by place and used a globe for navigation for example it is a shorter distance to travel near the noth pole than directly east west.

Modern airlines use the same flight paths as it is much shorter distance than to travel around the bulge of the earth.

[Kitkat]

Most flat-earthers believe the planets are spheres, although some believe they are simply lights.
It's only the earth they think is a flat plane.
Some believe the flat plane is continuous and has no end (like the universe).

They point to a number of experiments which appear to prove there is no curviture. They also believe NASA is a massive money making scam.

I think these people know full well that the earth isn't flat they just want to generate controversy.

Maybe.
However people like Eric Doubray are thoroughly convinced and are not stupid; meaning he is well educated and is a flat earth convert. Like all converts to anything, he is very committed.
I downloaded his book once. It was only a few quid. Some of his stuff is quite interesting and he makes some interesting points, especially regarding a geocentric universe.

My own view is that the universe is so strange and there is so much we don't comprehend, that we should keep an open mind about most things. If some experiments fail to show a curviture of the earth, I would like to know why. To me it doesn't mean the earth is flat, but it does mean that not everything works the way we think it should.
In other words we need a bit of humility.

Yes, I totally agree. Remember it was the masses that laughed Columbus off the map when he suggested the world was round. Have you ever been in space? I think not YOU DON'T KNOW... I came across the theory and I am extremely intrigued. Why not be open minded enough to have a civil discussion about it. No need to call names or make someone feel dumb. Badly done friends :ymhug:

[Kitkat]

Flat earthers tell me this, why do we see the sun rise in the east and set in the west? If it's moving above the surface of a flat earth, why isn't it always in view - and why doesn't the observed size shrink and grow due to perspective?

Google the phrase, "Celestial Perspective"... I would be curious to know what you think

[cayenne]

Spaced out, hopefully you have read some of my earlier posts. I have a family member who flies the 777 over the pacific. I have not mentioned "flat earth" to him, but he can't even answer why his routes from LAX to Hong Kong go up over anchorage. If you look at a "google earth" round map, that is way out of the way, I mean by like a third or more. One may argue the jet stream, weather patterns, but for that much of a difference in distance, and the route pretty much always being the same I think there must be a better explanation. Yet you look at the flat earth map (like the official UN map) it is nearly a straight line from LAX to the orient.

Spaced out, I think you made it clear you see nothing in this theory, but I disagree it is total madness. There are many mainstream subjects that when people veer away from the supposed norm that people get mocked and laughed at. Sometimes the mainstream knowledge is full of lies and cover-ups. We are here trying to exchange ideas about these things. I could make a massive list of things that seem to contradict a round earth. Does it mean the earth is flat? No, but it should give us pause.

Maybe I should ask, have you done any significant research on the flat earth? If you truly have, then you have done your homework and I salute you, but if you haven't then I hope you do. I have sent 20 years as a theologian, and the last 3 years deeply studying the world wars. I can tell you my own mother won't even talk about some of the lies I have uncovered. Actual documents, etc….She believes the way she was taught in school, the end. I think society is asleep and needs to wake up. Is this earth flat? I don't know, but I know there is more to this story than leave it be…it is madness and go onto to something else.

[Kitkat]

Earth is a globe anyone who thinks otherwise is smoking too much happy stuff. It is totally madness to think of the earth being flat.

I have done many international flights and the flight path that they take as well as observations from high altitude. I do a lot of survey work and theory of coordinate calculations it is impossible to accurately plot a location on the earth without taking into consideration the curvature of the earth. The US, Russia and Eu all have systems of satellites (min of 24) that are programmed as part of GPS system - these satellites revolve around the earth (globe) once every 24 hours and the data can be viewed in real time. Just look at google earth.
All the other planets are round when viewed from space as well as when viewed from probes sent to them. Likewise if one is on the mood the earth is round. It is not just NASA there have been astronauts from many many countries that have photographed the earth from space. All our navigation systems for hundreds of years have been based on round earth - they work precisely and accurately. They have installed reflectors on the moon so the distance from earth to the moon can be calculated down to millimeters. reading the reflectors takes cognizance of the round earth rotation.

Weather systems and ocean currents - bird migrations, the earths magnetic poles simply cant be explained otherwise. The Nephite writings and the scriptures make it clear the earth is round.

For less than $100 you can take your own pic of outer space at the edge of the atmosphere and prove yourself wrong. I pity the flat earth guys trying to navigate post apocalypse using their flat earth theory. The early explores proved conclusively the earth is not flat. Not even sure why we are discussing this it is stupid.

Teens capture images of space with £56 camera and balloon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... lloon.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

British 19-Year-Old Takes Incredible Satellite Pictures Using a £30 Camera and a Helium Balloon.
http://inhabitat.com/british-19-year-ol ... m-balloon/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When I took family photos this fall in the canyon with our GoPro camera I saw reverse curvature on the surface of the earth. Light can do crazy things through a lens.

[Kitkat]

Anyone have any thoughts as the why the UN has the flat earth map on their flag? A false flag perhaps

[Kitkat]

Explain how earth's magnetic field works on a flat earth. Also explain how stars rotate in opposite directions depending on if you're observing from the north or south hemisphere.

Here is what the flat earthers have to say:

While it's true that unipolar magnets can't exist, this isn't a problem for the Flat Earth. This is because ring magnets, which are shaped like (you guessed it!) a flat disk, are capable of having radial magnetization. In a radial magnet, one magnetic pole is at the center and other other is at all points on the edge of the magnet. A magnet like this can be found in loudspeakers, and perfectly replicates what is found on the Earth.

[cayenne]

This is cool. I am learning about geodetic surveying vs normal surveying. If you read the link below, and then follow the links at the bottom, there are some pretty educated people who believe the earth is flat.


http://tabooconspiracy.com/blog/flat-ea ... curvature/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kitkat]

Flat or hollow or globe? Share your proof.
Lots of videos to watch, this one puts it into some real perspective for a flat earth.

Was God was being serious and literal, even child like simple? Water above the firmament, and below... Space isn't space, it is water.

It makes sense.

Kitkat, are you homeschooling your children? If you are, you need to make sure they get some normal educational material and not just the far out religious stuff. I taught at a private LDS school and taught many homeschooled children, so I know that sometimes homeschooling parents can go way overboard in one direction of what they want to teach and refuse to offer a well rounded education. To me, these parents do a disservice, just as much as the negatives found in public education because they give limited information which does not prepare their children for understanding the world around them and it's meant to indoctrinate, which fosters closed mindedness.

The earth is a globe and as per your request, I will share my own particular experience as to why I know this. I suspect that you might appreciate how I know this ;) .

I saw a UFO many years ago on my way down to St. George late at night. I saw the UFO slowly descend in a straight line, it's lights blinking. It stopped in mid air, then, the lights blinked and I saw it shoot away from me, and as it did, I saw the curvature of the earth--this was a split second. It was an incredible experience. At the time I realized that no aircraft that I knew of could move at that speed or in such a way. It was like I'd seen it on an episode of star trek--like the aircraft had suddenly gone into warp drive (if you're familiar with Star Trek). So, while I've never been to space, I can attest that I have first hand knowledge that the earth is round.

Yes, I do homeschool my children. I also have a degree in education and I taught in a public school system for 3 years before having a family. In addition I run a local homeschool co-op group with several families in the Provo area. I am not sure why you are worried about me not offering my children a well rounded education. I teach my children they do not need to fear the truth and no question is a stupid one. My children study mathematics, grammar, writing, history, biology, graphic design, chemistry, video game development, computer programming, keyboarding, photography, pottery, piano, classic and contemporary literature, painting, business, we meet all core standards. We have watched literally hundreds of documentaries put out from a wide variety of sources. We enjoy stuff put out by PBS, NOVA, BBC, NASA, and random youtubers. I am always open to a new idea. My son is fascinated by Nikola Tesla and has been asking about how we could invent free energy. This is one of the reasons I stumbled onto the flat earth theory.



:ymhug:

Cool story about the UFO's. How curved did the surface of the earth appear?

[braingrunt]

...
I am curious what you think of this article

http://www.14lds.com/flat.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...

I believe the point of the article was to convince the reader that Christians, (particularly evangelical Christians) have a problem with either 1) being forced to accept flat earth or 2) being forced to acknowledge their somewhat arbitrary divide of literal vs figurative interpretations of the Bible. While also pointing out that Mormons on the other hand have some relatively comfortable escapes from the dilemma.

I somewhat agree but I don't love the article for several reasons.

[cayenne]

Kitkat you are awesome We homeschool too, and love it!

[cayenne]

I want to post this again, please watch it, plus it funny how he gets the words to repeat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6PS_bgfBRU&t=64s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

been to the moon? Been through the van allen belts? Been out of low earth orbit? Well have a listen, someone is not good at lying.

[braingrunt]

My sense seems to tell me that if we account for the sun and moon rising and setting only via perspective, then they should
1) diminish to a dot as they approach the horizon, I mean VERY small
2) their perceived approach to the horizon should slow as they get farther and farther away from us (less convinced on this one)

while rotational rising and setting will always cover the same degree of arc in the same amount of time. I believe, based on my limited experience, that rotational rising and setting are correct.

[JohnnyL]

I had asked about the curvature above in my post. Can anyone add alternative explanations to it?

Again, if a boat goes out of view in the ocean, is it perception? or actual curvature? If it is curvature, how can binoculars/telescope bring it back into view perfectly flat like it never left? What explanations can we come up with here? This is testable by the "little guy"……we can use our own eyes and senses here, and do not have to so called "rely" on those who have a monopoly on many things like NASA.

I brought it up before, but since I've contested the traditional view on it, it might not have been noticed:
is there any curvature that would similate a straight line?
is there a medium that helps with this (gravity/ electricity/ light properties)?
Yes, it's a good question. Which is the mere illusion, which is truth? Or is there more to it?

[Spaced_Out]

Anyone have any thoughts as the why the UN has the flat earth map on their flag? A false flag perhaps

It is a perspective view of the earth from the N.poles putting no one country in prominence. It is not a flat earth map.

There are in total 2,271 satellites orbiting the earth continuously recording and transmitting data all the algorithms are based on a globe if fact at any one time half of them or in the eastern hemisphere and the other in the western hemispheres - flat earth one would see them all in view at the same time. A conspiracy, you guys are saying every country in the world is in on it not to mention the scriptures.. Flat earth believes are beyond insane - it is not possible to have any kind of logical discussion on this topic.

[Ungläubige]

My sense seems to tell me that if we account for the sun and moon rising and setting only via perspective, then they should
1) diminish to a dot as they approach the horizon, I mean VERY small
2) their perceived approach to the horizon should slow as they get farther and farther away from us (less convinced on this one)

while rotational rising and setting will always cover the same degree of arc in the same amount of time. I believe, based on my limited experience, that rotational rising and setting are correct.

sunset3.jpg (42.02 KiB) Viewed 1428 times

sunset2.jpg (41.66 KiB) Viewed 1428 times

sunset1.jpg (66.92 KiB) Viewed 1428 times

[Ungläubige]

Maybe the surface is flat, with a round dome, with satellites moving in low earth orbit around the flat surface like the sun and moon.

What keeps the satellites flying? They can't carry enough fuel to stay suspended over a flat earth.

It's easily explained if they are orbiting a globe.

I don't really buy into the flat earth no satellite thing. I tend to believe satellites can orbit in low earth orbit. Makes me wonder why i have heard obama twice and NASA have admitted to never being out of low earth orbit. Seriously, why would they admit to that? Does that mean mars and Jupiter are in low earth orbit?

When the first space missions took place, there is a video released by the BBC that I think was supposed to be classified at one time? or they got it by mistake. i dont remember. It showed the astronauts were in space (probably low earth orbit) but the view of earth was manipulated. They were using cameras in a dark part of the space ship about 15 ft or so from a round window that showed earth. this made it look like earth was a round sphere from a long distance. This video is very telling that indeed they were faking stuff. (Plus, where are the stars)

Here is a link:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mCHG6uJH5L8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Especially the end when they turn the lights on.

since you concede that there are satellites in orbit - do you have any theory, either your own or from the web, as to how mankind can place geo-synchronous satellites into orbit over a FLAT EARTH - what keeps them suspended in orbit over a fixed point on the earth?

[Kitkat]

Anyone have any thoughts as the why the UN has the flat earth map on their flag? A false flag perhaps

It is a perspective view of the earth from the N.poles putting no one country in prominence. It is not a flat earth map.

There are in total 2,271 satellites orbiting the earth continuously recording and transmitting data all the algorithms are based on a globe if fact at any one time half of them or in the eastern hemisphere and the other in the western hemispheres - flat earth one would see them all in view at the same time. A conspiracy, you guys are saying every country in the world is in on it not to mention the scriptures.. Flat earth believes are beyond insane - it is not possible to have any kind of logical discussion on this topic.

It looks like the UN got it from someone else who created it in the 1890s, but they just shifted it somewhat:
https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/sea ... :7h149v85z

The scriptures have plenty of verses where the Lord speaks of an established, upon pillars, foundational, immovable earth - along with a molten looking-glass like dome or vault, upon which "circle" the Lord's throne sits above the clouds. The scriptures speak often of the "Face" of the earth, circle, disk, and esp. where the Lord is taken to an exceedingly high mountain upon which he saw ALL THE KINGDOMS of the world (why the exceedingly high mountain, and how did he see ALL the kingdoms of the world if it was a sphere), if it was some power the Devil used to show him ALL the kingdoms of the world, why do it on an Exceeding high mountain unless it was for perspective to see everything on a flat earth?

Do we really believe the Lord's words in that the devil truly deceived the entire world? Are we open to being deceived on this "science"-god teaching and worship, even a little?

A few example reads of interest where bible verses lend to flat earth (Which from what I have studied, bible authors believed in a flat earth):
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm
http://testingtheglobe.com/bible.html
http://www.testingtheglobe.com/bible

[Kitkat]

Watch this video of a rocket hitting what looks and sounds like a water dome up in space. Why? Anyone explain why? (hits at around 1:20)

https://youtu.be/IAcp3BFBYw4?t=1m20s

[Kitkat]

My sense seems to tell me that if we account for the sun and moon rising and setting only via perspective, then they should
1) diminish to a dot as they approach the horizon, I mean VERY small
2) their perceived approach to the horizon should slow as they get farther and farther away from us (less convinced on this one)

while rotational rising and setting will always cover the same degree of arc in the same amount of time. I believe, based on my limited experience, that rotational rising and setting are correct.

I thought the same, until I applied some 3D design thinking to perspective.

What do you think about this "law" this author titles, "celestial perspective" which is different from our ground/eye level perspective in the video below? It clarifies how the sun does not need to shrink on a FLAT EARTH model. Watch esp. the experiment with the balls he does in the video.

The proposed law from the video:

An Object Going away from an observer will shrink less and less commensurate, to its distance away, parallel to one's Z axis

From what I understand from this experiment, which makes perfect sense with a FLAT EARTH MODEL and a sunset in such a system - what he is showing (the celestial perspective law) is that the higher up an object is, if it is traveling parallel to the ground (flat earth and sun or moon), the less it will shrink due to one's celestial perspective, as you can no longer apply ground level, or eye level perspective. Watch the video. What am I missing? This makes perfect sense to answer the normal perspective observation that it should shrink as it moves away from perspective on a flat earth model.

https://youtu.be/Vq5ixQytLXE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Alaris]

Science has always had a penthouse suite in the large and spacious building. I voted for globe but will never mock a flat earther just in case one day people refer to round earthers in like manner. Plus mocking is wrong generally speaking. Golden rule and all. Except when Elijah does it.