Poll: illegal immigration

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.

Are you for...

Deportation
39
54%
Amnesty
6
8%
Something in between
27
38%
 
Total votes: 72
carbon dioxide
captain of 100
Posts: 190

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by carbon dioxide »

ajax wrote:I am for the full dismantling of the welfare/warfare state, thus making immigration a non-issue.
One does not need to round up the illegal aliens. Treat the situation like a campground with a bear problem. Get rid of the things that attract the bears, they will leave. Get rid of the government benefits, the free education, and enforce the employment laws, they will deport themselves.

GeeR
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1635

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by GeeR »

lundbaek wrote:Certainly worth considering, GeeR. Could you please tell us how the Ephrainites fit into this.
Lundbaek, after a little homework I have an answer. Basically, Bruce R. McConkie says this prophecy in the Book of Mormon concerning the remnant of Jacob going through the Gentiles as a lion through a flock of sheep to tear them apart is NOT A LOCAL EVENT by the offspring of Lehi concerning American Gentiles but it IS A GENERAL SIMILITUDE concerning the destruction of ALL Gentile nations through the world at Christ’s second coming due to their wickedness and rejection of the restored gospel. It’s taken from Micah 5:8-14. McConkie says: “Except for a few who are the humble followers of Christ, the Gentiles will not repent. They will revel in their abominations and sin against the restored gospel, and they will be burned by the brightness of our Lord’s coming while the righteous—here called the remnant of Jacob—shall abide the day. AND THEN, IN THE PROPHETIC IMAGERY, IT WILL BE AS THOUGH the remnant of Israel overthrew their enemies as a young lion among the flocks of sheep.” (The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man [1982], 248; see also p.242; Mortal Messiah 4:334-37.)

The words of Joseph Fielding Smith are congruent with McConkie’s words, said he: “He also said that if the gentiles, not only upon this land, but also of all lands, did not repent he would bring the fulness of the gospel from among them. The remnant of the house of Israel spoken of in First Nephi, chapter 13, and Third Nephi, chapters 16, 20, and 21, does not have reference only to the descendants of Lehi, but to all the house of Israel, the children of Jacob, those upon this land and those in other lands. Reference to the gentiles also is to all the gentiles on this land and in other lands.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2: 247-248.)

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

Thank you, GeeR, for the explanation and for the awareness of the homework that I need to do on this subject.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by freedomforall »

This article is too long to post. Those interested may find it educational.

The Mormon Church and Illegal Immigration

http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/arti ... ration.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

I have for some years now been very much concerned about immigration into the United States because of the influence many immigrants have exerted toward the transitioning of this nation from a constitutional republic, which I highly appreciate, into a centralized socialist state like those from which many of the immigrants come from. I believe I am on the Lord's side in wanting and working to retain our constitutional republic as it was intended to be maintained. I also believe that if lots more Americans had in past understood and tried to uphold the principles of the original US Constitution, most of the government-caused grief we are experiencing now would not exist.

I think that once immigrants are in the United States, legally or illegally, we have a divinely mandated obligation to treat them with civility, yet in accordance with U.S. Immigration and other laws. But it seems to me that the Lord, acting thru His Prophet and Apostles, may be enabling many of those here illegally to remain here. I may be wrong about this, but I calls 'em as I sees 'em. The actions of a number of local Church authorities in the greater Phoenix, AZ area seem to have convinced many members here that amnesty and open borders are the Lord's will. And I don't think that is going to change anytime soon.

What I would like to see and would strongly support is a program run by the Church to instruct new immigrants in the history of the United States and in the form of government which the Lord obviously intended this country to have. I think that there is plenty enuf scripture in the Book of Mormon and in the Doctrine of Covenants, and probably in other books of scripture as well, to get off to a good start in that direction. I would like to see that followed up with instruction in statements by latter-day prophets and apostles about the history of the founding of the United States and the writing of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and about how the U.S. Government is supposed to work. For Church members that should be well enuf to get them on their way to awareness of what the Lord intended the United Sates to be: a land from which both the gospel and the desire for liberty to reverberate to other nations.

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harakim
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2819
Location: Salt Lake Megalopolis

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by harakim »

Rural America is one of the last bastions of freedom around the world. It is the last line of defense for freedom and the only thing holding several other countries in check. The balance is slowly moving in favor of the large city / large government people who are out of touch with the reality of how the world works. When America falls, so will the rest of the world. Most of the illegal immigrants are coming from countries where freedom is a foreign concept. We need to be able to restrict the number of people who don't understand the American way of life to the amount that can be assimilated. I think we are blowing past that threshold.

To abelchirino's point, I don't really care what happens to the economy. I want restore freedom throughout the world more than I want to have easy access to 65" TVs. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by freedomforall »

Van Flips and 28 Illegal Immigrants Jump Out

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

It is not uncommon for motor vehicle accidents here in Arizona to involve a vehicle carrying any number of illegal immigrants sneaking into the country. The MSM and illegal immigrant and amnesty supporters use these incidents to make their case for open borders.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by freedomforall »

lundbaek wrote:It is not uncommon for motor vehicle accidents here in Arizona to involve a vehicle carrying any number of illegal immigrants sneaking into the country. The MSM and illegal immigrant and amnesty supporters use these incidents to make their case for open borders.
Nothing like turning America into that which the illegals came from.
Garbage Everywhere.jpg
Garbage Everywhere.jpg (159.29 KiB) Viewed 1165 times

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ajax
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Posts: 7988
Location: Pf, Texas

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by ajax »

Frederick Douglass on Immigration
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalr ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I submit that this question of Chinese immigration should be settled upon higher principles than those of a cold and selfish expediency.

There are such things in the world as human rights. They rest upon no conventional foundation, but are external, universal, and indestructible. Among these, is the right of locomotion; the right of migration; the right which belongs to no particular race, but belongs alike to all and to all alike. It is the right you assert by staying here, and your fathers asserted by coming here. It is this great right that I assert for the Chinese and Japanese, and for all other varieties of men equally with yourselves, now and forever. I know of no rights of race superior to the rights of humanity, and when there is a supposed conflict between human and national rights, it is safe to go to the side of humanity. I have great respect for the blue eyed and light haired races of America. They are a mighty people. In any struggle for the good things of this world they need have no fear. They have no need to doubt that they will get their full share.

But I reject the arrogant and scornful theory by which they would limit migratory rights, or any other essential human rights to themselves, and which would make them the owners of this great continent to the exclusion of all other races of men.

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ajax
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7988
Location: Pf, Texas

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by ajax »

California Committee Passes Bill to End Support for Most Federal Immigration Enforcement
http://www.targetliberty.com/2017/02/ca ... o-end.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
An important California Senate Committee passed a bill to withdraw state resources from the enforcement of most federal immigration laws. Passage into law will likely have the effect of further nullifying those federal acts in practice, reports The Tenth Amendment Center.

Introduced by Sen. President Kevin de Leon and four co-sponsors, Senate Bill 54 (SB54) was passed by a 5-2 vote yesterday in the Senate Public Safety Committee.

Known as the “California Values Act,” the bill would “prohibit state and local law enforcement agencies and school police and security departments from using resources to investigate, interrogate, detain, detect, or arrest persons for immigration enforcement purposes.”

While the bill would not allow state agencies to directly interfere with federal immigration enforcement, it would leave the enforcement of federal immigration law to the federal government in most situations.

So let me think for a minute how Trump will respond to this. Oh yeah, send more ICE and other federal agents into the state.

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