husband trying to recover from porn addiction

[freedomforall]

Having addictions is like living with acute confusion.

[skmo]

Recovery is not achieved by one's own will;

I will generally agree with this, although it would be completely accurate to say REDEMPTION is not achieved by one's own will. Recovery from addiction can be greatly helped by the Atonement, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it CAN'T be done by one's own willpower. Rare though it may be, I'm sure there are some few individuals who can tap an inner reservoir of will to beat their own weaknesses.

Nevertheless, while I do agree that recovery is usually not achieved by one's own will, it is undoubtedly impossible to achieve without one's will. The Atonement cannot save you against your will, and no one can pray you out of your unwillingness to change.

However, it is correct that we cannot be cleansed by our own will.

[freedomforall]

Recovery is not achieved by one's own will;

I will generally agree with this, although it would be completely accurate to say REDEMPTION is not achieved by one's own will. Recovery from addiction can be greatly helped by the Atonement, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it CAN'T be done by one's own willpower. Rare though it may be, I'm sure there are some few individuals who can tap an inner reservoir of will to beat their own weaknesses.

Nevertheless, while I do agree that recovery is usually not achieved by one's own will, it is undoubtedly impossible to achieve without one's will. The Atonement cannot save you against your will, and no one can pray you out of your unwillingness to change.

However, it is correct that we cannot be cleansed by our own will.

Those who try to overcome an addiction or bad habit on their own and succeed are not using the atonement. They are trying to overcome by sheer willpower without God's cleansing power in force. They still have to repent by confessing to a bishop coupled with seeking God's forgiveness, unless their bad habit is picking their nose and digesting the yield. I contend that if someone can overcome under their own willpower they aren't really addicted.

One can pick their friends and pick their own nose, but they can't pick their friend's nose. Now that would truly be a bad habit, right? #-o

I still recommend the book Putting on the Armor of God: How to Win Your Battles with Satan The process of overcoming taught therein does work. And it is a sure fire way of involving God and the atonement.

[wildad]

I'm a spouse. I understand that point of view very well.

Many professional therapists (even LDS ones. ) will give the same advice I did. Maybe you should talk to some of them, like I have, before you accuse others of ignorance.

There are many professional counselors. That doesn't mean they have a clue. If you can read this website and still not see the problems with porn then you are indeed a stubborn person.
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fiannan]

I'm a spouse. I understand that point of view very well.

Many professional therapists (even LDS ones. ) will give the same advice I did. Maybe you should talk to some of them, like I have, before you accuse others of ignorance.

There are many professional counselors. That doesn't mean they have a clue. If you can read this website and still not see the problems with porn then you are indeed a stubborn person.
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are indeed problems. However, ironically, the article on "The Coolidge Effect" seems to suggest humans are biologically wired for polygamy.

[freedomforall]

I'm a spouse. I understand that point of view very well.

Many professional therapists (even LDS ones. ) will give the same advice I did. Maybe you should talk to some of them, like I have, before you accuse others of ignorance.

There are many professional counselors. That doesn't mean they have a clue. If you can read this website and still not see the problems with porn then you are indeed a stubborn person.
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are indeed problems. However, ironically, the article on "The Coolidge Effect" seems to suggest humans are biologically wired for polygamy.

In your wildest dreams, Fiannan, in your most wildest dreams.
I'm so sure that a man wired for polygamy would be so very happy to have multiple wives...and not be able to perform. Diabetes and ED, sometimes severe, are no combination to have even with one wife. Men are so cocky and proud in thinking they can have many wives and make sex a daily activity. One woman can bear the loss of intimacy, but a whole harem, good luck with that. ED is about as much fun as racing a car having a high horse power engine with no pistons in it.

Men with ED will quote this poem:

My headlights are going dim
my taillights are going out
what used to be my sex appeal
is now my water spout.

[Fiannan]

I'm a spouse. I understand that point of view very well.

Many professional therapists (even LDS ones. ) will give the same advice I did. Maybe you should talk to some of them, like I have, before you accuse others of ignorance.

There are many professional counselors. That doesn't mean they have a clue. If you can read this website and still not see the problems with porn then you are indeed a stubborn person.
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are indeed problems. However, ironically, the article on "The Coolidge Effect" seems to suggest humans are biologically wired for polygamy.

In your wildest dreams, Fiannan, in your most wildest dreams.
I'm so sure that a man wired for polygamy would be so very happy to have multiple wives...and not be able to perform. Diabetes and ED, sometimes severe, are no combination to have even with one wife. Men are so cocky and proud in thinking they can have many wives and make sex a daily activity. One woman can bear the loss of intimacy, but a whole harem, good luck with that. ED is about as much fun as racing a car having a high horse power engine with no pistons in it.

Men with ED will quote this poem:

My headlights are going dim
my taillights are going out
what used to be my sex appeal
is now my water spout.

I have no clue about what you are bringing up here. ED? What does Mr. Ed have to do with polygamy unless we are discussing Emperor Caligula.

What of those men who have been blessed with fantastic health? I have had women half my age comment that I must not be human due to my endurance in athletics and ability to be active in either extreme cold weather, etc. I have also had a few ask me if I am Illuminati but that is a different matter. ;)

Maybe it comes from having a lot of Irish blood. In the old days, once a chieftain was unable to perform his wives would sacrifice him. Maybe that bred in some good genes.

Now, if your comment about Mr. Ed was not about Mr. Ed then please explain.

[freedomforall]

There are many professional counselors. That doesn't mean they have a clue. If you can read this website and still not see the problems with porn then you are indeed a stubborn person.
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are indeed problems. However, ironically, the article on "The Coolidge Effect" seems to suggest humans are biologically wired for polygamy.

In your wildest dreams, Fiannan, in your most wildest dreams.
I'm so sure that a man wired for polygamy would be so very happy to have multiple wives...and not be able to perform. Diabetes and ED, sometimes severe, are no combination to have even with one wife. Men are so cocky and proud in thinking they can have many wives and make sex a daily activity. One woman can bear the loss of intimacy, but a whole harem, good luck with that. ED is about as much fun as racing a car having a high horse power engine with no pistons in it.

Men with ED will quote this poem:

My headlights are going dim
my taillights are going out
what used to be my sex appeal
is now my water spout.

I have no clue about what you are bringing up here. ED? What does Mr. Ed have to do with polygamy unless we are discussing Emperor Caligula.

What of those men who have been blessed with fantastic health? I have had women half my age comment that I must not be human due to my endurance in athletics and ability to be active in either extreme cold weather, etc. I have also had a few ask me if I am Illuminati but that is a different matter. ;)

Maybe it comes from having a lot of Irish blood. In the old days, once a chieftain was unable to perform his wives would sacrifice him. Maybe that bred in some good genes.

Now, if your comment about Mr. Ed was not about Mr. Ed then please explain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erectile_dysfunction" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[shadow]

I have had women half my age comment that I must not be human due to my endurance in athletics and ability to be active in either extreme cold weather, etc.

:X ;;) :YMDAYDREAM:

[passionflower]

I have had women half my age comment that I must not be human due to my endurance in athletics and ability to be active in either extreme cold weather, etc.

:X ;;) :YMDAYDREAM:

=))

[Fiannan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erectile_dysfunction

What does this have to do with polygamy?

A guy with this problem should probably avoid polygamy once it is re-established. ;)

[freedomforall]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erectile_dysfunction

What does this have to do with polygamy?

A guy with this problem should probably avoid polygamy once it is re-established. ;)

40 wives and around 253 adopted children, This way abortion can be minimized. And for travel? Several of these fine machines for family outings, and church activities.

brigham_brougham.jpg (107.61 KiB) Viewed 4826 times

The hypothetical quantities of wives and children are all relative.

[Fiannan]

How the Church could remain inter-generational with so many women to every male, assuming monogamy remains the rule:

1) Those women who do get married have families of at least six children.

2) All single LDS women upon reaching age 35, and who are single with no prospects, go in and have two children through artificial insemination.

3) There is no option #3.

[kittycat51]

Recovery is not achieved by one's own will;

I will generally agree with this, although it would be completely accurate to say REDEMPTION is not achieved by one's own will. Recovery from addiction can be greatly helped by the Atonement, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it CAN'T be done by one's own willpower. Rare though it may be, I'm sure there are some few individuals who can tap an inner reservoir of will to beat their own weaknesses.

Nevertheless, while I do agree that recovery is usually not achieved by one's own will, it is undoubtedly impossible to achieve without one's will. The Atonement cannot save you against your will, and no one can pray you out of your unwillingness to change.

However, it is correct that we cannot be cleansed by our own will.

Those who try to overcome an addiction or bad habit on their own and succeed are not using the atonement. They are trying to overcome by sheer willpower without God's cleansing power in force. They still have to repent by confessing to a bishop coupled with seeking God's forgiveness, unless their bad habit is picking their nose and digesting the yield. I contend that if someone can overcome under their own willpower they aren't really addicted.

One can pick their friends and pick their own nose, but they can't pick their friend's nose. Now that would truly be a bad habit, right? #-o

I still recommend the book Putting on the Armor of God: How to Win Your Battles with Satan The process of overcoming taught therein does work. And it is a sure fire way of involving God and the atonement.

The book you mention is a GREAT book that every home should have in my mind. We live in a day and age that very few will be lucky to never come in contact with porn in some shape or form with all of its ugly tentacles. If you or your child has any access to any type of electronic device, it's not a matter of IF but WHEN. I was surfing my phone recently and was re-directed to a page of which was NOT what I was looking for. The most vial photo came up and I was shocked, it physically sickened me. If it happened to me why not my boys? This is Satan's best tool in our day to pull our families apart. The problem is rampant, and for parents to believe "not my child" think again. I have heard from bishop's who serve in BYU singles wards; many RM's are dealing with this problem.

The answer to staying safe lies in knowing ahead of time how we will respond to such filth...AND many times it's easier said than done. "Putting on the Armor of God" goes beyond telling a person "just don't do it" but rather gives many inspired helps and ideas in dealing with, overcoming and avoiding this temptation. Another great book is "Like Dragons did they Fight" by Maurice W. Harker. I have both of these books and have encouraged my teenagers to read them.

[Robin Hood]

Post removed.

[jsk]

How the Church could remain inter-generational with so many women to every male, assuming monogamy remains the rule:

1) Those women who do get married have families of at least six children.

2) All single LDS women upon reaching age 35, and who are single with no prospects, go in and have two children through artificial insemination.

3) There is no option #3.

The Church Handbook of Instruction for Bishops and Stake Presidents very clearly states that single LDS women who are artificially inseminated are subject to Church discipline. In many of your other posts, you make it clear that you view the bringing of children into the world as something that is to be condoned and encouraged under any circumstance. However, I'm drawing the conclusion that what you are suggesting must be a pretty big deal to the Lord, that he doesn't share your belief that children should be brought into the world under any and all circumstances (although he won't interfere with a person's agency if this is what they choose to do), and that he communicated this very clearly to his appointed servants (thus the reason for inclusion of this policy in the Handbook). Certainly the Lord's ways are not my ways, and I don't pretend to always understand the reasons behind them. But I also am not so arrogant as to try and counsel counsel the Lord and tell him what or how he should think on such matters, particularly where His will has been made known. You, on the other hand, keep talking about artificial insemination of LDS single women as if it isn't a big deal...maybe consider that you don't know everything and that it may in fact be a much bigger deal than you realize (and in my mind it obviously is).

[Fiannan]

How the Church could remain inter-generational with so many women to every male, assuming monogamy remains the rule:

1) Those women who do get married have families of at least six children.

2) All single LDS women upon reaching age 35, and who are single with no prospects, go in and have two children through artificial insemination.

3) There is no option #3.

The Church Handbook of Instruction for Bishops and Stake Presidents very clearly states that single LDS women who are artificially inseminated are subject to Church discipline. In many of your other posts, you make it clear that you view the bringing of children into the world as something that is to be condoned and encouraged under any circumstance. However, I'm drawing the conclusion that what you are suggesting must be a pretty big deal to the Lord, that he doesn't share your belief that children should be brought into the world under any and all circumstances (although he won't interfere with a person's agency if this is what they choose to do), and that he communicated this very clearly to his appointed servants (thus the reason for inclusion of this policy in the Handbook). Certainly the Lord's ways are not my ways, and I don't pretend to always understand the reasons behind them. But I also am not so arrogant as to try and counsel counsel the Lord and tell him what or how he should think on such matters, particularly where His will has been made known. You, on the other hand, keep talking about artificial insemination of LDS single women as if it isn't a big deal...maybe consider that you don't know everything and that it may in fact be a much bigger deal than you realize (and in my mind it obviously is).

Several points to consider, if we are to go by the handbook:

1) There is no penalty for a worthy LDS man to donate sperm or a worthy LDS woman to donate eggs.

2) There is no penalty for a couple, in which one is infertile or carries a genetic disorder, to go to a fertility clinic and obtain eggs or sperm from unknown donors.

3) Any children born of couples obtaining donor sperm or eggs, upon the birth of children, those children are sealed to the couple automatically as if they were their total genetic offspring.

[jsk]

Why wouldn't we go by the Handbook?

I can't recall if what you've outlined in (1) thru (3) is correct...I'll check later when I have time.

But...once again...you are skirting the real issue via deflection.

Do you have ADD?

I ask because you seem to have trouble staying on topic.

But I suspect that is just a debating tactic to try and obfuscate the issue, which is how you are continually promoting artificial insemination by single LDS women as if that would be some kind of great thing when in fact the Lord has apparently revealed that such actions are not pleasing to him and that any single LDS woman that engage in such activity is subject to church discipline. This is no small thing although I suppose you will try and minimize it by saying that someone who drinks coffee is also subject to church discipline.

So...you apparently either didn't realize this...which I doubt...or you knew it but for some reason think you are wiser than the Lord and seek to counsel him.

How about a straight answer? Go on...you can say it...you think the Handbook is incorrect and that artificial insemination of single LDS women is perfectly fine. It is obvious you believe it...so go ahead and say it. But just remember that by doing so, you are essentially saying that you think the Brethren are in error, that this doesn't come from the Lord, that He thinks artificial insemination of single LDS women is wonderful. Assuming this is the case, I would be very interested to know on what basis you believe you know the will of the Lord better than the Brethren.

[freedomforall]

This forum is a Pro-LDS site. It is evident that some forum members have their own beliefs, express them here and expect others to think of sexual sin as a normal practice, even to the extent of promoting sin relentlessly.

There are two ways of doing things, 1) our way, and 2) God's way. Our way includes succumbing to Satan's vast array of ways to get people to sin, to adopt carnal practices and call them good and okay. God's way is to have virtue garnish our thoughts unceasingly, overcoming temptation and repenting often.

No one can serve two masters, one good, the other evil. Likewise, no one can enter into heaven with one foot in hell. The good person is supposed to be engaged in good works and being cleansed from all sin, to become meek and holy, pure without spot.

And for those bent on subverting the requirements of God, just don't get it.

[Melissa]

Recovery is not achieved by one's own will;

I will generally agree with this, although it would be completely accurate to say REDEMPTION is not achieved by one's own will. Recovery from addiction can be greatly helped by the Atonement, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it CAN'T be done by one's own willpower. Rare though it may be, I'm sure there are some few individuals who can tap an inner reservoir of will to beat their own weaknesses.

Nevertheless, while I do agree that recovery is usually not achieved by one's own will, it is undoubtedly impossible to achieve without one's will. The Atonement cannot save you against your will, and no one can pray you out of your unwillingness to change.

However, it is correct that we cannot be cleansed by our own will.

Those who try to overcome an addiction or bad habit on their own and succeed are not using the atonement. They are trying to overcome by sheer willpower without God's cleansing power in force. They still have to repent by confessing to a bishop coupled with seeking God's forgiveness, unless their bad habit is picking their nose and digesting the yield. I contend that if someone can overcome under their own willpower they aren't really addicted.

One can pick their friends and pick their own nose, but they can't pick their friend's nose. Now that would truly be a bad habit, right? #-o

I still recommend the book Putting on the Armor of God: How to Win Your Battles with Satan The process of overcoming taught therein does work. And it is a sure fire way of involving God and the atonement.

I have to say something about your post here. It seems that your answer only applies to lds members. There are people who don't see a bishop to confess their addictions nor do they rely on the atonement in the sense that lds people do yet, they overcome many obstacles and problems and even addictions.

Please don't forget that we are humans but we are strong and have the power and ability within us to crush the head of satan.

My grandfather had a serious drinking problem and wouldn't quit. He was a war vet and not a member of our church and possibly not any church. He was presented with a do or die ultimatum by his wife and he never touched alcohol again. He loved his wife more than alcohol regardless of whatever power it had over him, he had more power found within his ability to love, which God blesses.

The singer P!nk, clearly not lds, was on drugs ( multiple drugs) starting at age 12 or something. She wanted to be a singer more than anything so when she was asked to sing at a night club but had to be sober, she quit everything and never touched it again.

We need the savior yes, we cannot make it without him. But, we do have power and I think way too many people don't tap into it!!!

A man can stop porn use if he wanted to with or without a bishop involved. A man CAN chose to not look at it. This doesn't mean that he won't be in despair and agony (the price we pay for sin) but he doesn't want to feel those horrible feelings so he says he can't stop. REALLY? He can! It's just not easy. Many people everyday go through their own garden of Gethsemane BY CHOICE to conquer and overcome either by their own sins or sins committed against them. It's a choice to be strong and it's a choice to be in control of your actions, sins blinds people's ability to see correctly and porn especially criples a man's confidence and self worth. This is where a bishop/counselor can help. To remind them they can do it. It's a choice to get in and it's a choice to get out. No way around it.

[Fiannan]

How about a straight answer? Go on...you can say it...you think the Handbook is incorrect and that artificial insemination of single LDS women is perfectly fine. It is obvious you believe it...so go ahead and say it. But just remember that by doing so, you are essentially saying that you think the Brethren are in error, that this doesn't come from the Lord, that He thinks artificial insemination of single LDS women is wonderful.

[Fiannan]

Do you have ADD?

You believe in ADD?

Anyway, I would hesitate going by the handbook. It is a general policy statement, not scripture. If it were scripture it does, in places, contradict past prophets. And if the handbook was scripture it would not have been kept from the lay membership for so long.

[jsk]

Very clever...I am a Star Wars fan.

But ultimately incorrect.

There are plenty of cases where our Heavenly Father deals in absolutes. It is absolutely wrong to commit adultery. It is absolutely wrong to commit first degree murder. It is absolutely wrong to engage in pornography. The list could go on and on.

So...your premise is incorrect.

[Fiannan]

Very clever...I am a Star Wars fan.

But ultimately incorrect.

There are plenty of cases where our Heavenly Father deals in absolutes. It is absolutely wrong to commit adultery. It is absolutely wrong to commit first degree murder. It is absolutely wrong to engage in pornography. The list could go on and on.

So...your premise is incorrect.

Esther was married to Mordecai when she was put forward to become Xerxes' concubine and then wife.

[Juliet]

I have dealt with all the demons of lust as a survivor of satanic ritual abuse. These are demons that screw your beliefs about the body. Struggling with these demons is not the end of the world. Heavenly Father is allowing us to struggle with our sexually. We will come through it understanding our sexually so well we will never go back to the shame driven ways of experiencing it. Treat it like a common disease and have compassion for those who struggle with it. It may take years to figure it out but the way I got all those demons out of me was surrounding myself with people who love me unconditionally. Obviously I don't look at porn, but I lived through porn. If you want to overcome it God will help you, and it may take several years, a step at a time.
What I have learned is that you need to untangle your spirit from all the people you had sexuall feelings for, so in your mind, you have to tell them all thank you but goodbye, shake their hands, and let them go. That allows all of your spirit to be in the present hopefully with your spouse. You have to be true to your spouse in your thoughts. Also ask the hard questions. If you are a man, did your mom treat you sexually, even if it was emotional? In a child, that will instill subconscious hatred towards women.

We have to learn how creation works and this is a societal issue.