Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

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Chip
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Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Chip »

EDIT: I edited this umpteen times to clean up spelling, grammar, and clarity.

A few weeks ago, I was reading the Book of Mormon to my kids when a lightning strike, of sorts, hit. I was reading 1 Nephi 7, verses 1 and 2, in which Nephi states that they were commanded to go back to Jerusalem to get Ishmael's family, so that they would have wives, in order that they might raise seed up unto the Lord in the promised land. These verses tie right to Jacob 2:25, which ties right to the whopper, Jacob 2:30. This led to a few other discoveries.

I got up at 4 a.m. today and wrote out what has been on my mind for some time now, regarding all this. Some of this may be new to some of you, as it was to me:
Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Joseph Smith said, “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book” (History of the Church, 4:461).


Italicized heading of Jacob, Chapter 2, as of 1981:
"Jacob denounces the love of riches, pride, and unchastity—Men may seek riches to help their fellow men—Jacob condemns the unauthorized practice of plural marriage—The Lord delights in the chastity of women. About 544–421 B.C."
Italicized heading of Jacob, Chapter 2, as of 2016:
"Jacob denounces the love of riches, pride, and unchastity—Men may seek riches to help their fellowmen—The Lord commands that no man among the Nephites may have more than one wife—The Lord delights in the chastity of women. About 544–421 B.C."
In 1981, the reader would deduce that, in some circumstance, "plural marriage" may be "authorized", while in 2016 the matter is much more veiled and it's unclear what the actual point is, with Nephites being commanded to have only one wife.

Why this prevarication in the most correct of any book on earth? The answer is, simply, that these headings are not part of the original Book of Mormon text, but are additions placed by men, which are changed from time to time.

In almost all cases, these editorial chapter headings are useful for understanding the actual Book of Mormon, but they can also be a subtle form of propaganda. Such is the case, regarding Jacob's condemnation of the Nephite whoredoms, where a particular verse has been wrested to support the narrative of God commanding polygamy in the early modern church.

Just as chapter headings are not part of the original Book of Mormon, neither are the footnotes. Both can be used to misdirect the reader's understanding of what scripture is actually telling us.


Condemnation of Whoredoms in the Book of Mormon

In Jacob 2:22-35, Jacob gives a strong talk to the Nephites against the emergence of whoredoms among them.
23: "...For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son."

24: "Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord."
So, the men had begun to commit whoredoms and were validating it by a licentious reading of the Old Testament.
25: "Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph."

26: "Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old."

27: "Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;"

28: "For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts."

29: "Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes."
The Lord is really upset about all this because He had led the Nephites out of the mire of Jerusalem, in order to raise up a righteous group of people, and now they are screwing it all up by committing whoredoms. If the Nephites won't keep His commandments, the land will be cursed. Pretty serious.

Next comes verse 30, that has been wrested to support polygamy in the early modern church.
Jacob 2:30 "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."
Did you see that, in verse 25, the Lord led the Nephites out of Jerusalem to raise up seed for Himself? And what are "these things" that the people will hearken to, if not commanded? Wait, scratch that. That's not how you're supposed to think.

From the church's narrative, aided by the italicized chapter heading and numerous footnote references from other texts, which aim to legitimize the history of polygamy in the early modern church, this verse is supposed to mean something like this:
For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people to engage in polygamy; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things written here about not engaging in polygamy.
I propose to you that there is no possible way that anyone could come to such a disjointed interpretation by actually reading the Book of Mormon, itself, sans chapter headings and footnotes.

Remember, this is the most true and correct of all books, and contains God's word, which is plain and precious and easy to the understanding of all men.

How could there be, amid a barrage of condemnations toward what amounts to polygamy, an escape hatch that magically permits some men to have more than one wife?

As you will see, the Book of Mormon actually presents a perfectly complete and congruous picture, on its own, while the subterfuge of polygamy has been injected from without.


The Wresting of Jacob 2:30

Jacob 2:30 has two parts which each refer to different matters:

First part:
"For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people;"
Second part:
"otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."

Exploration of the First Part of Jacob 2:30

In the first part of Jacob 2:30, the Lord states that when He wants to raise up righteous people, He will command them.

Five verses earlier, Jacob 2:25 explained how the Lord commanded the Nephites:
25: "Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph."
Notably, 1 Nephi 7:1-2 shows exactly when and how this was done.
1: "And now I would that ye might know, that after my father, Lehi, had made an end of prophesying concerning his seed, it came to pass that the Lord spake unto him again, saying that it was not meet for him, Lehi, that he should take his family into the wilderness alone; but that his sons should take daughters to wife, that they might raise up seed unto the Lord in the land of promise."

2: "And it came to pass that the Lord commanded him that I, Nephi, and my brethren, should again return unto the land of Jerusalem, and bring down Ishmael and his family into the wilderness."
Again, reviewing first part of verse 30:
"For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people;"
You can see that those 1 Nephi 7:1-2 verses absolutely relate to Jacob 2:25, and they all answer the first part of Jacob 2:30.

I don't think it's a mere oversight that there are no footnotes connecting Jacob 2:25 and 1 Nephi 7:1-2, and, especially, that no footnotes tie any of those verses back to Jacob 2:30. Such connections would undermine the narrative of polygamy having been commanded by the Lord in the early modern church.

Tellingly, In 1 Nephi 7:1, there is a footnote on the word "seed" that points to this verse:
Psalms 127:3 "Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the fruit of the womb is his reward."
...While in Jacob 2:30, there is also a footnote on the word "seed" which points here:
D&C 132:61 "And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else."
Hello, Polygamy!

Certainly, the word "seed" means the same thing in 1 Nephi 7:1 as it does in Jacob 2:30, since these verses all tie together, even if their footnotes don't.

And if there's any confusion about whether or not the Lord commands polygamy when he wants to raise up seed, see what he reminded the Nephites of in Jacob's talk:
Jacob 2:34 "And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.
No multiple wives. It's not the Lord's way. Lehi was given this commandment, commensurate with his and Ishmael's family being led to the promised land for the purpose of raising righteous seed.


There is absolutely no way that Jacob 2:30 can be honestly said to legitimize polygamy. Even if the Lord did instruct Joseph Smith and others to engage in it, the Book of Mormon certainly does not support it.

Now, onto the second half of Jacob 2:30. It gets even clearer.


Exploration of the Second Part of Jacob 2:30

Consider the second half of verse 30 (bold):
Jacob 2:30 "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."
So, if the Lord's people are not commanded, they will hearken unto some "things".

The word "things" is a reference to, well... things. Where is the word "thing" used elsewhere in Jacob's talk, that would give some definition?

Here are all the verses in Jacob 2:22-35 which contain the word "thing" or "things":
Jacob 2:23 "But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son."

Jacob 2:24 "Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord."

Jacob 2:34 "And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done."
And, lastly, verse 30:
Jacob 2:30 "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."
Do you see?


Conclusion

The real meaning of Jacob 2:30 is this:
"For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people by leading them out of the mire and instructing them anew on having only one wife and no concubines; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things written about David and his son Solomon and suppose themselves justified in committing whoredoms."
Or, more simply:
"When I, the Lord, want a righteous people, I will lead them out of trouble and instruct them in my ways; otherwise, their carnal tendencies will only lead them deeper into error."
A more accurate Italicized heading for Jacob 2 could read:
"Jacob denounces the love of riches, pride, and unchastity—Men may seek riches to help their fellowmen—Whoredoms are resolutely condemned—The Lord delights in the chastity of women. About 544–421 B.C."
This brings up the really big question: "Why has the Book of Mormon been made to look like it supports polygamy, when it doesn't?"

I believe the bible warns us of the human condition:
Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"
God and man are naturally at odds with one another. God gives commandments and men are inclined to break them. Sometimes, men even try to weasel around the meanings of commandments to grant themselves the desires of their unknowably wicked hearts. Did I say "sometimes"? I should say "often".

Our hearts are desperately wicked, and we are inclined to do evil, even when supposing we are doing good.
Proverbs 16:25 "There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
This is the human condition and why we need to acquiesce to God's ways, and not our own - which are certain to lead to death.


Final Thoughts

It seems to me, with the advent of polygamy in the early modern church, the authority of men had to be elevated and scriptural truth had to be devalued, in order to keep things glued together. I believe there are numerous examples of this today, if one is willing to look.

There are some intriguing aspects of church polygamy that are not widely known.

Among the early converts to the church were members of a polygamous Christian sect in Maine led by a man named Jacob Cochran. These Cochranites practiced "spiritual wifery", which sanctioned multiple wives for each of its men. Many Cochranites converted to Mormonism and Brigham Young married a women from the group. When they came into the church, they were not leaving polygamy behind.

At one point in 1835, amid rumors that the church leaders were practicing polygamy, a formal denial was made in the original Section 101 of the D&C, which read:
"Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."
Forty-one years later, in 1876, that section was removed and Section 132 was inserted, which codified polygamy. Note that that came thirty two years after Joseph Smith's death.

Some say Joseph was always against polygamy, but was unsuccessful in routing it from the church. I believe he was a progenitor of it, but the formal notion came after early extramarital involvements, apparently starting with Fanny Algers, a teenage girl living with Joseph and Emma. In one of the recent church essays on polygamy, Fanny is cited as Joseph's first plural wife. However, when Emma discovered them in the barn together, she blew up and sent Fanny packing. Fanny went to a neighboring state, married a man, had ten kids with him, and was never again a Mormon. Emma was unaware of many of Joseph's later wives and she suffered much, per Jacob's warning of the wounds women endure as a result of whoredoms.

It seems to me that Joseph died due to intrigues surrounding polygamy. With the advent of William Law's Nauvoo Expositor and Joseph's subsequent reaction to it, in which he ordered men to destroy Law's printing press, he gave the government a reason to detain him. For that, he was called to Carthage Jail, where he was killed by an armed mob, shooting two men, himself, before dying.

The church has made it very difficult for members to parse these matters, as Joseph Smith, The Prophet of the Restoration, is presented as an all-or-nothing proposition. This is a false dilemma that seems, to me, a mechanism for maintaining belief in many Mormon tenets which the refutation of polygamy could deeply jeopardize.

What seems clear to me is that the Book of Mormon was God's work, and was completed to God's satisfaction through Joseph Smith. What came after, involving things like polygamy and Freemasonry, seems suspect. I don't know that a prophet can't take a left turn. I believe God grants each man his agency.

Unfortunately, for the welfare of greater Christendom, this conflation with polygamy has deterred many from reading the Book of Mormon. This seems tragic, as we are now inundated with the dark works of secret combinations, which the Book of Mormon explicitly warns about and explains. Most people remain oblivious to the existence of secret combinations and their motivations, patterns, and behaviors, and are therefore unable to understand what is transpiring around them. The Book of Mormon would teach the whole world plain and precious things, if they would be persuaded to read it.
Last edited by Chip on February 29th, 2016, 11:29 am, edited 13 times in total.

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AI2.0
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by AI2.0 »

Talk about 'wresting the scriptures'.

It means what is means. The Nephites were practicing polygamy and they were not authorized to do so. They are only authorized when the Lord requires it, as he did with Abraham, Sarah and Hagar and Jacob and his wives and concubines. And, it is to 'raise seed' as we are required to 'multiply and replenish the earth' by marrying and having children.

You seem to have forgotten that Joseph didn't die alone in Carthage jail. His beloved and faithful, most trusted friend and brother, Hyrum Smith was martyred there too. Hyrum Smith married plural wives, not because Brigham Young or a bunch of former Cochranites talked him into it, he did it because he was following the counsel and commandments of his brother, whom he knew as a Prophet of GOD. If Joseph was SOOOO against polygamy, why was Hyrum married to plural wives?

This revisionist history some of you are promoting is false. Unfortunately some don't have enough knowledge about the facts and they WANT to believe polygamy was never something Joseph taught, so they'll believe silly conspiracy theories and lies. Attempting to blame Brigham Young for polygamy, asserting that Joseph was trying to stop it, is False. IMO, it is proven false by the fact that his brother Hyrum (who was also martyred with Joseph in Carthage jail) was a practicing polygamist. He'd never have been involved with polygamy if Joseph had been against it, period.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Robin Hood »

I believe you could be right.

But there is another interpretation that has some merit in my view, and which came to me a while ago while contemplating these verses.

What was it that David and Solomon did that was abominable? Was it simply having more than one wife? Or was it because they took those wives from among the non-Israelite nations living in close proximity to Israel, which had been expressly forbidden?
If it was the latter, maybe the small band of Nephites were taking additional wives from among the native new world population in order to quickly increase the Nephite population, and forge familial bonds and political alliances with the locals etc.
When we think about it, the additional wives would have had to have come from a non-Lehite source because the Nephite population size at that time was small and polygamy would have been impossible. There just wouldn't have been enough women.
Last edited by Robin Hood on February 27th, 2016, 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EPH
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by EPH »

Where do you get the idea that Hyrum was a polygamist? Or are you just referring to the fact that he remarried after his first wife died. I've read quite a bit on Hyrum and have never heard he was sealed to anyone other than his two wives.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Robin Hood »

EPH wrote:Where do you get the idea that Hyrum was a polygamist? Or are you just referring to the fact that he remarried after his first wife died. I've read quite a bit on Hyrum and have never heard he was sealed to anyone other than his two wives.
He was a polygamist if we accept the back-written sealing records produced in Utah many years later.

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Obrien
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Obrien »

Chip - I had the same light bulb moment reading these scriptures about a year ago and wrote out essentially the same thoughts here on the forum. However, your writing is more complete and eloquent than mine. I think you nailed it - absolute homerun.

This interpretation is not made to minimize any of the offspring of the lds polygamy experiment, so don't take it personally anyone. It's just a clear exposition of what the actual words of the bom say, without lds spin.
Last edited by Obrien on February 27th, 2016, 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Obrien
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Post by Obrien »

AI2.0 wrote:Talk about 'wresting the scriptures'.

It means what is means. The Nephites were practicing polygamy and they were not authorized to do so. They are only authorized when the Lord requires it, as he did with Abraham, Sarah and Hagar and Jacob and his wives and concubines. And, it is to 'raise seed' as we are required to 'multiply and replenish the earth' by marrying and having children.

You seem to have forgotten that Joseph didn't die alone in Carthage jail. His beloved and faithful, most trusted friend and brother, Hyrum Smith was martyred there too. Hyrum Smith married plural wives, not because Brigham Young or a bunch of former Cochranites talked him into it, he did it because he was following the counsel and commandments of his brother, whom he knew as a Prophet of GOD. If Joseph was SOOOO against polygamy, why was Hyrum married to plural wives?

This revisionist history some of you are promoting is false. Unfortunately some don't have enough knowledge about the facts and they WANT to believe polygamy was never something Joseph taught, so they'll believe silly conspiracy theories and lies. Attempting to blame Brigham Young for polygamy, asserting that Joseph was trying to stop it, is False. IMO, it is proven false by the fact that his brother Hyrum (who was also martyred with Joseph in Carthage jail) was a practicing polygamist. He'd never have been involved with polygamy if Joseph had been against it, period.
AI2.0 - the scripture headings Are not part of the original record. It's the only place in Jacob 2 that mentions authorization.

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Melissa
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Melissa »

Weren't the scripture heading or footnotes written by Bruce R McConkie?

He also wrote Mormon Doctrine that became controversial and has been out of print since 2010. He fully believed that polygamy was true and necessary and would come back in the millenium and be the marriage of Heaven.

So, of course he would support polygamy in his footnotes/headings to the book of mormon.

I thank you Chip for your Op!
Well done in being guided by the spirit.

I can tell you that polygamy is wrong and many would support that. It has an evil feeling to it no matter who ever lived it in the past. No man's practice of it will ever persuade me that it is okay.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Robin Hood »

I never, ever, read the chapter headings.
I make point of avoiding them..
To me they just spoil the flow.
They can also prejudice the text occasionally, as Chip points out.

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Robin Hood
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Post by Robin Hood »

I would point out, before someone else does, that Chip's interpretation is nothing new.
It has been the standard RLDS interpretation since at least 1860.

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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Ezra »

History is written by the winners.

I have to say that I used to support the teachings of polygamy. But the more info I find the more I have my doubts.

book of Mormon condemn it. Joseph smith and hyrum condem it. Then all of a sudden they don't and are murdered soon after and the only witness to D&c 132 is the guy who scribed it??

I don't know seems pretty shady.

Brigham young was never ordained a high priest and recived the higher priesthood. But like D&c 132 the story of his supposed taking on the mantel of Joseph surfaced years after the fact.

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Obrien
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Post by Obrien »

Robin Hood wrote:I would point out, before someone else does, that Chip's interpretation is nothing new.
It has been the standard RLDS interpretation since at least 1860.
Agree RH, but when you're raised in the MorCor, you are not taught anything good about the RLDS. When the light goes on regarding polygamy, it is an unsettling moment for a TBM.

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Chip
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Chip »

AI2.0 wrote:Talk about 'wresting the scriptures'.

It means what is means. The Nephites were practicing polygamy and they were not authorized to do so. They are only authorized when the Lord requires it, as he did with Abraham, Sarah and Hagar and Jacob and his wives and concubines. And, it is to 'raise seed' as we are required to 'multiply and replenish the earth' by marrying and having children.

You seem to have forgotten that Joseph didn't die alone in Carthage jail. His beloved and faithful, most trusted friend and brother, Hyrum Smith was martyred there too. Hyrum Smith married plural wives, not because Brigham Young or a bunch of former Cochranites talked him into it, he did it because he was following the counsel and commandments of his brother, whom he knew as a Prophet of GOD. If Joseph was SOOOO against polygamy, why was Hyrum married to plural wives?

This revisionist history some of you are promoting is false. Unfortunately some don't have enough knowledge about the facts and they WANT to believe polygamy was never something Joseph taught, so they'll believe silly conspiracy theories and lies. Attempting to blame Brigham Young for polygamy, asserting that Joseph was trying to stop it, is False. IMO, it is proven false by the fact that his brother Hyrum (who was also martyred with Joseph in Carthage jail) was a practicing polygamist. He'd never have been involved with polygamy if Joseph had been against it, period.
I didn't mean to give the impression that Joseph wasn't involved and Brigham was responsible.

It's clear that Joseph was quite involved in the establishment of polygamy.

I was trying to point out that there were some complex dynamics at work which are hard to sort out.

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Chip
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Chip »

Ezra wrote:History is written by the winners.

I have to say that I used to support the teachings of polygamy. But the more info I find the more I have my doubts.

book of Mormon condemn it. Joseph smith and hyrum condem it. Then all of a sudden they don't and are murdered soon after and the only witness to D&c 132 is the guy who scribed it??

I don't know seems pretty shady.

Brigham young was never ordained a high priest and recived the higher priesthood. But like D&c 132 the story of his supposed taking on the mantel of Joseph surfaced years after the fact.
I think for the top dogs engaged in polygamy, it became an addiction and they didn't want anyone spoiling it for them. The thought of going back to one wife was untenable.

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Chip
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Chip »

Obrien wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:I would point out, before someone else does, that Chip's interpretation is nothing new.
It has been the standard RLDS interpretation since at least 1860.
Agree RH, but when you're raised in the MorCor, you are not taught anything good about the RLDS. When the light goes on regarding polygamy, it is an unsettling moment for a TBM.
That's right. We're on our own when it comes to figuring this out.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Robin Hood »

So here's the big question.
If it can be determined somehow that the Chip/RLDS interpretation is correct, and also that Joseph and Hyrum did not practice or sanction plural marriage, that it was introduced into the church by others, and that D&C 132 was tampered with (I know this is a big "if", but there are those who believe there is sufficient evidence to safely draw this conclusion); where would that leave us?

sushi_chef
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by sushi_chef »

....still interesting tidbits of the affidavits docu info: clayton/thompson/phillips/granger....
http://restorationbookstore.org/article ... s/hsfp.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

how about cochranites(warren cowdery lyman wight et al) influences?! supposedly they preached/practiced half-truth and the other half was backed by the adversary, then adversary might have copied it from somewhere??

:-B

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jockeybox
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by jockeybox »

Robin Hood wrote:So here's the big question.
If it can be determined somehow that the Chip/RLDS interpretation is correct, and also that Joseph and Hyrum did not practice or sanction plural marriage, that it was introduced into the church by others, and that D&C 132 was tampered with (I know this is a big "if", but there are those who believe there is sufficient evidence to safely draw this conclusion); where would that leave us?
One could assume that some "freelancing" has been done over the years regarding leadership of the church. That's kind of a big deal, considering there is the prevalent thought that prophets can't lead astray. This would suggest, it is possible to be lead astray.

For me, I would deduce that I can square my own spiritual promptings, understanding and basic reasoning with what I feel is right for me, not based on what come from SLC.

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Obrien
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Post by Obrien »

Robin Hood wrote:So here's the big question.
If it can be determined somehow that the Chip/RLDS interpretation is correct, and also that Joseph and Hyrum did not practice or sanction plural marriage, that it was introduced into the church by others, and that D&C 132 was tampered with (I know this is a big "if", but there are those who believe there is sufficient evidence to safely draw this conclusion); where would that leave us?
Condemned. Lost. Fallen. Quite human.
Like everyone else in the world.

cayenne
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by cayenne »

Regardless, some pretty important people in the Bible lived God sanctioned polygamy, and the 12 tribes of Israel come from Polygamy. God called Joseph to restore all things, and that includes the authority to gather the tribes of Israel which came from polygamy…..sure makes me think polygamy would be restored too……pretty hard to restore the tribes of Israel that came from polygamy, and not restore the marriage system that begat those tribes!

Just my 2 cents

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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Robert Sinclair »

The "key" to understanding is "desire", good to know what and where, judgement comes from, on this matter, as Abraham, nor Jacob, had "desire" for these things, but circumstance, brought these things to be, while both David and Solomon, having direct command, not to multiply wives, nor gold nor silver, instead, came to "desire" these things, and to pursue them, from their own "desires", and wants, of their hearts.

Joseph Smith had been warned also, not to pursue the carnal "desires" of his own heart, and then he would be protected, but this was not to be, and as such, he fell dead, no more protected of God, as was made manifest, in D&C 132 verse 61, "desire" is laid out, rather than command of God, as a stone of stumbling, and a falling away, from not multiplying, wives, as commanded of God, in Deuteronomy 17:17---

"Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold."

and verse 20---

"That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren"

Good not to "desire" those things, that lead to the lifting up of one's heart, above thy brethren, and to follow the instructions of God, and let not the "desires" of one's heart, lead them astray, from the word of God.♡

JohnnyL
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by JohnnyL »

I have another interpretation.

How were David and Solomon to be good HUSBANDS to 800 wives or so??

Why did they want so many wives?
To raise righteous seed?
Because Israelite men weren't marrying?
Because they loved these women and wanted to be good husbands and fathers?
I have a REALLY hard time believing any of that--thus, the reference to lawful, yet abominable behavior.

Were the men trying to marry for the right reasons?

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Rachael
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Rachael »

cayenne wrote:Regardless, some pretty important people in the Bible lived God sanctioned polygamy, and the 12 tribes of Israel come from Polygamy. God called Joseph to restore all things, and that includes the authority to gather the tribes of Israel which came from polygamy…..sure makes me think polygamy would be restored too……pretty hard to restore the tribes of Israel that came from polygamy, and not restore the marriage system that begat those tribes!

Just my 2 cents
When did God sanction polygamy except an occasional Leverite marriage? Maybe in Hosea, maybe in Ruth (we don't know whether Boaz had a wife, so can't say if this Leverite marriage was polygamous).

Yes, some important people came from it. The Ammonites and Moabites came from incest. Ruth was a Moabitess. David married at least one Ammonite woman (probably more), but God hasn't sanctioned incest unless there was a necessity for it with starting a population, like Adam and Eve, Noah and sons, Lehi and sons...still no polygamy though

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Rachael
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by Rachael »

Robin Hood wrote:So here's the big question.
If it can be determined somehow that the Chip/RLDS interpretation is correct, and also that Joseph and Hyrum did not practice or sanction plural marriage, that it was introduced into the church by others, and that D&C 132 was tampered with (I know this is a big "if", but there are those who believe there is sufficient evidence to safely draw this conclusion); where would that leave us?
In a better place

BrotherOfMahonri
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Re: Polygamy (not) in the Book of Mormon

Post by BrotherOfMahonri »

Robin Hood wrote:So here's the big question.
If it can be determined somehow that the Chip/RLDS interpretation is correct, and also that Joseph and Hyrum did not practice or sanction plural marriage, that it was introduced into the church by others, and that D&C 132 was tampered with (I know this is a big "if", but there are those who believe there is sufficient evidence to safely draw this conclusion); where would that leave us?
the LDS Church will renounce such historical untruths, false affidavits, etc. of him having ever established and practiced polygamy in the not too distant future, which will bring upon the church a blessing that has been withheld because of this unbelief.

The LDS Church will state that polygamy was never practiced by the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith Jr., clearing the good name of the man who has done more for our salvation save the Savior himself, and showing to the world in effect, Satan has more power upon the hearts and minds of the people than we realize or give thought towards - as he has stuck his foot into the restoration and due to man's weakness has succeeded in promulgating the false history of Joseph's supposed polygamy.
viewtopic.php?t=38780#p609367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

^^^ Showing us that the counsel of scholars of history is NOT seership, revelation, and of prophetic prophecy.

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