Poll: illegal immigration

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.

Are you for...

Deportation
39
54%
Amnesty
6
8%
Something in between
27
38%
 
Total votes: 72
Vision
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2324
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by Vision »

RaVaN wrote:God gives the right and no one else.

Does God create Nations that draw boundaries? IF so why does the Earth only have one side?

Robert Sinclair
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11006
Location: Redmond Oregon

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by Robert Sinclair »

The best long term solution is to set up the standard and ensign for all nations to treat their own, giving to the poor homes and land, food and raiment, living the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so that all nations of this earth, might see how to be, and how to treat their people.

That way no need for walls anymore between nations of this earth that keep the commandments of God.♡

lundbaek
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Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

A couple of years ago in a General Conference Priesthood meeting Elder Robert Hale stated that "We are role models to the world, protecting God-given and unalienable rights." I understood that to mean that we Latter-day Saints are to strive to establish and promote freedom as intended by the establishment of the US Constitution.

Furthermore, according to statements in the Doctrine and Covenants and recorded statements especially of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Melvin J. Ballard, J. Reuben Clark, Harold B. Lee, and Ezra Taft Benson, it appears that God committed to Americans the task of learning and upholding the principles of the US Constitution as it was intended to be understood by the Lord such that by example those principles would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by its precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would eventually apply to "all flesh" and "be established forever". Again, I believe we were expected to build a nation that would inspire changes in other nations that would allow their inhabitants to enjoy their God-given and unalienable rights.

I do not believe it was even intended to include just giving to the poor homes and land, food and raiment, but rather helping them to help themselves.

commonwealth
captain of 100
Posts: 164

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by commonwealth »

They can live here for 10 years, paying US, state, and local taxes all the while, but they get no government benefits during that time. After 10 years, if they're still around, they can then become naturalized and receive benefits. They benefit from having a "free" society and having work, we benefit from having workers, and not having to subsidize them.

GeeR
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1635

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by GeeR »

lundbaek wrote:Well, here we are now just over a year and a half later, and just look at the current so-called "refugee" crisis that has been fomented.... by WHOM ? And for WHAT PURPOSE ? Of course we have to treat these new immigrants with kindness, compassion and civility. From my understanding and observations, Americans generally treated war prisoners with kindness, compassion and civility. Not always, but certainly much better than American POWs were often treated. They were treated as criminals by enemies of certain cultures. And, BTW, Britain and European countries are currently experiencing the same refugee crises. I only wish all Americans understood that this crisis has been fomented to help bring about great changes in America.
The following editorial was in my daily newspaper Sept. 15, 2015 that addresses lundbaek's concerns:

"What point is there in being filthy rich, the elite 0.1 percent, if you can’t herd diverse groups of people into a gladiatorial arena to watch them fight to the death for survival? This, in essence, is what I believe is going on worldwide as we count down the last days of the Age of Men, before we are all replaced by robots and artificial intelligence, according to the New York Times and Washington Post. Sounds cynical, but how else do you explain so any western nations committing virtual suicide by implementing policies guaranteed to lead to racial and ethnic strife, breakdown of societal order, and widespread poverty?

"Western Europe, including England, is becoming unrecognizable as a tsunami of hundreds of thousands of Syrians, Libyans, Iraqis, et al, pours out of their homelands with open hands outstretched. Donald Trump and the Pope believe the U.S. should help shoulder the burden, but how many refugees are the neighboring countries of Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, and UAE taking in? Zero! But don’t forget that these are America’s “allies,” who’ve sacrificed their best and brightest young “men” to constitute an army of rapists and murderers called ISIS, which enjoys raping Christian women to death and sodomizing young boys.

"England is taking in about 300,000 immigrants per year, mainly from the Middle and Far East, pursuing Tony Blair’s plan to Balkanize the nation. France continues to welcome an endless stream of Muslims, despite growing problems with disgruntled jobless third and fourth-generation immigrants. A poll last year found 27 percent of people aged 18-24 supportive of ISIS. The French military is preparing for war to take back France’s own cities.

"Sweden, once the model socialist state, is now a basket case. Its female head of immigration is openly pro-jihadist. The Swedish government is considering forcing Swedes to make their garages available to Islamic immigrants with no place to live. The incidence of rape is up over 1,400 percent since the 70’s when Sweden began to favor Muslim immigrants.

"Towns of 1,000 people in Germany are awakening to more than 2,000 refugees suddenly encamped in their cities. The native Germans are now second-class citizens: Women are not allowed to wear shorts or skirts lest they offend Muslim sensibilities. Those who criticize the open-borders policy are subject to stiff fines. Tensions are rising.

"Living demon, George Soros, is wanted by numerous countries on felony charges, yet he operates freely in the U.S., giving over $30 million last year to the Black Lives Matter organization. That group was founded by a trio of militant black lesbians who cite Assata Shakur, a radical feminist and Marxist revolutionary, convicted of murdering a New Jersey state trooper, as their inspiration. Shakur escaped from prison in 1979 with the help of Bill Ayers’ Communist organization, Weather Underground, which aided her flight to Cuba. Ayers, the president’s old friend and mentor, is the ghost-writer of Obama’s memoir 'Dreams from my Father.'

"Soros shares common interests with Congress’ National Endowment for Democracy, both spending billions to destabilize and loot the Ukraine, install neo-Nazis to power, and provoke Putin to the brink of war. Meanwhile, Russia’s military is fighting ISIS and bringing humanitarian aid to Syria’s survivors, as our military “accidentally” drop shipments of weapons and equipment into ISIS-held territory.
The late prime minister of England, Margaret Thatcher, once quipped, “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” But that “problem” was recast as the Holy Grail by a husband and wife team of Columbia University sociologists, Cloward and Piven, who saw in the welfare system (operating synergistically with an open borders policy, eco-fascism, and a derivative-based economic collapse) a means to bankrupt western civilization and drive humanity over the cliff—much to the amusement of the 0.1 percent crowd."

GeeR
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1635

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by GeeR »

Also check out: "5 Things the Media Won't Report About the Refugee Crisis"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkIocH91j0w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by freedomforall »

I say had the American people known their Constitution and were determined to keep it alive and defend it, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in. We wouldn't have programs geared to tear us down, for us to be robbed by government. We wouldn't have Obamacare, illegal immigration and open borders. People would still be required to be self reliant in the Great USA as were the immigrants long ago that came to America, legally, and started businesses and found ways to make a living, having dreams and free enterprise to accomplish them.
In short, had people known the Declaration of Independence, and used it the way it is meant, we wouldn't have a crooked government today. Obama and earlier previous despots would have never made it into office.

Prov. 28:28
28 When the wicked rise, men hide themselves: but when they perish, the righteous increase.

Also:

Prov. 29:2
2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn

Does this sound familiar?

3 Ne. 6:30
30 And they did set at defiance the law and the rights of their country; and they did covenant one with another to destroy the governor, and to establish a king over the land, that the land should no more be at liberty but should be subject unto kings.

Who is "they" in our case?

And this?

Alma 46:10

10 Ye, we see that Amalickiah, because he was a man of cunning device and a man of many flattering words, that he led away the hearts of many people to do wickedly; yea, and to seek to destroy the church of God, and to destroy the foundation of liberty which God had granted unto them, or which blessing God had sent upon the face of the land for the righteous’ sake.

Can this be applied to us as well?

Alma 47:35
35 And it came to pass that Amalickiah sought the favor of the queen, and took her unto him to wife; and thus by his fraud, and by the assistance of his cunning servants, he obtained the kingdom; yea, he was acknowledged king throughout all the land, among all the people of the Lamanites, who were composed of the Lamanites and the Lemuelites and the Ishmaelites, and all the dissenters of the Nephites, from the reign of Nephi down to the present time.

Here is what God intended for us to be doing"

D&C 98:5-9
5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.
6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land;
7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.
8 I, the Lord God, make you free, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.
9 Nevertheless, when the wicked rule the people mourn.

Moral decay, wickedness and apathy has headed our country down the wrong path and now, IMHO, God mourns too. Another society that He provided freedom and liberty to has gone to the evil secret combinations. And for what...the taking from the "haves" and giving it to the "have nots." This isn't freedom, it is, wickedly acquired, legalized plunder.
Soon, the Great and Powerful America will reap the whirlwind for her lack of obedience to God's laws and throwing away His kindness and mercy.

SEE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5lQq0VSM0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lundbaek
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Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

And to think that Mormons, had they been united in upholding the principles of the Constitution as it was meant to be understood and determined to suffer not that the murderous combinations get above us, could have led the charge in preventing this disaster.

GeeR
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1635

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by GeeR »

lundbaek wrote:And to think that Mormons, had they been united in upholding the principles of the Constitution as it was meant to be understood and determined to suffer not that the murderous combinations get above us, could have led the charge in preventing this disaster.
So true lundbaek, we were expected to be the leaven that would leaven the whole lump (world). Matt. 3:33. I'm wondering even in this late hour if it is still prophetically possible to still fill that role?

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by freedomforall »

Isn't it about time for the Elders of Israel to step forward and save the Constitution? Our king has declared his defiance toward congress; he has said he'll do as he likes, has changed laws and as far as I know...spoken of a third term in office, so he can do what? Does the three letters, NWO, mean anything to us?
Isn't this the last thread about to be severed?

I pray God will hear and act on fervent prayers offered up to Him for deliverance.

Or do we have to enter Rev 13:7,8 first?

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Think of it. The "beast" spoken of in verse 4
1) will have power (false priesthoods) to rule over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
2) all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, except
3) those whose names are written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Question is...who of us have our name in the book of life?

lundbaek
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

I don't think the "Elders of Israel" are prepared to step forward and save the Constitution. If they were to try, there would be all kinds of disagreements over what is constitutional and what is unconstitutional. For example,many Mormons with whom I have discussed constitutional issues think case law takes precedence over original intent, and what the Supreme Court says in constitutional is constitutional even it it violates the Constitution as worded now. Just look at all the unconstitutional actions and programs that Mitt Romney supported.

Many Mormons maintain that until the Prophet tells us what to do Re. the Constitution we should not get involved with it. Then consider how much good all the preaching by Presidents McKay, Clark, Romney, and Benson did.

It's a pretty discouraging situation, but all I can do is try to educate younger people who might be among the "remnant" that does in fact restore the Constitution as prophesied.

I cannot urge members strongly enough to suggest to their bishops and stake presidents that even a few minutes be taken in sacrament meeting or a stake conference to instruct or remind members of our doctrinal imperative to preserve liberty. My multiple suggestions to both bishops and stake presidents have been rejected, but at least they know from me if from no one else that there was a time when latter-day Prophets gave us some pretty strong words about our duty to the Constitution.

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light-one
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Posts: 712

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by light-one »

They can be convinced to self deport if hiring an illegal is considered treason and punishable by death after a very speedy trial. Add a bounty of $500 for every illegal turned in dead or alive. I imagine they would head back south to draw graffiti, deal drugs, and rape.

lundbaek
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Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

It should be obvious by now that the people in control of our FedGov (latter-day gadiantons) have every intention of fomenting continued illegal immigration and migration of so-called refugees into America. What is even more difficult for most to understand is the reason for all this.

The planned new world order (world government) can really only come together after the United States is reduced to a shambles and is out of the way. A vital, economically strong, Christian United States would have at its disposal the spiritual and material force to prohibit a worldwide satanic dictatorship from incorporating the United States into the NWO. Consequently, the great effort to destroy the United States

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markharr
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Posts: 6523

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by markharr »

I think this is fulfilment of scripture. For the most part we are a wicked people. This land was reserved for the righteous. Since we are no longer righteous we are being invaded.

lundbaek
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Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

I guess my nest question is should we welcome the invaders, as many Americans (including Mormons) are doing, should we just turn a blind eye to the invasion, or should we do what we can to "repel boarders" and at least do what we can to "suffer not" that the "murderous combination" shall get above us?

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markharr
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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by markharr »

lundbaek wrote:I guess my nest question is should we welcome the invaders, as many Americans (including Mormons) are doing, should we just turn a blind eye to the invasion, or should we do what we can to "repel boarders" and at least do what we can to "suffer not" that the "murderous combination" shall get above us?

Those who have criminal records or that commit crimes beyond the crime they have already commited by crossing our borders illegaly should be deported for sure. I don't know the answer for the rest. I like to think that maybe there is some of gods plan in this by allowing some of his faithful servents to get a little closer to zion before the tribulaitons start.

That last statement doesn't mean that I support what our current president, and other politicians are doing with our borders.

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skmo
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Posts: 4495

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by skmo »

lundbaek wrote:How do you reply to the cry that we need to be loving and chartable...
By explaining that sometimes you express love by holding someone's hand, and sometimes you express it by slapping their hand. I've experienced both, I've employed both. If your body has an infection, sometimes you take medicine to heal. Sometimes to need surgery to remove the infection before the healing can occur.

lundbaek
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Posts: 11123
Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

I believe that God's original plan, which I'm sure He knew would fail, was for both the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the principles of liberty as incorporated in the US Constitution would be espoused and complied with to the extent that they would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by their precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would eventually apply to "all flesh" and "be established forever". It is my understanding that the prophesies about the "remnant of the House of Jacob" and the "House of Jacob" wreaking havoc among the "Gentiles" are to apply only if the Gentiles fail to live righteously enough, which I believe is the actual case now.

I believe many Mormons think we should support and encourage this mass migration and the wreaking havoc among us because it is the will of the Lord. The Lord may let it happen, but I believe it is evil and certainly not what the Lord originally wanted.

GeeR
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Posts: 1635

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by GeeR »

lundbaek wrote:I believe that God's original plan, which I'm sure He knew would fail, was for both the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the principles of liberty as incorporated in the US Constitution would be espoused and complied with to the extent that they would reverberate to other nations where people would desire to live by their precepts and choose to be governed by them, and those principles would eventually apply to "all flesh" and "be established forever". It is my understanding that the prophesies about the "remnant of the House of Jacob" and the "House of Jacob" wreaking havoc among the "Gentiles" are to apply only if the Gentiles fail to live righteously enough, which I believe is the actual case now.

I believe many Mormons think we should support and encourage this mass migration and the wreaking havoc among us because it is the will of the Lord. The Lord may let it happen, but I believe it is evil and certainly not what the Lord originally wanted.
I have a different take on those scriptures about the seed of Jacob tearing through the Gentiles like a lion than practically everyone else in this church. Whilst all believe it is the Lamanites that will execute the blood bath I believe it will be the Ephraimites that will accomplish the deed.

lundbaek
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Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

Certainly worth considering, GeeR. Could you please tell us how the Ephrainites fit into this.

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markharr
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Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by markharr »

Speaking of immigration. Can someone please explain to me why we are allowing a false prophet who isn't a citizen of this nation, let alone an elected representative to lecture us on immigration, and the death penalty?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ntiff.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lundbaek
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Location: Mesa, Arizona

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by lundbaek »

The Pope is openly supportive of immigration into the USA and amnesty. I believe he is also supportive of the globalist agenda.

samizdat
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Posts: 3511

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by samizdat »

markharr wrote:Speaking of immigration. Can someone please explain to me why we are allowing a false prophet who isn't a citizen of this nation, let alone an elected representative to lecture us on immigration, and the death penalty?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ntiff.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Be careful what you wish for. The Pope is regarded by 70 million Catholics in the United States as the Vicar of Christ, over four times the GLOBAL population of Mormons that recognize Thomas S. Monson as a Prophet of God.

As a religious leader he has the absolute RIGHT to speak out on issues that concern him the most. He happens to be from Latin America. He happens to have come to power during the Juan Peron dictatorship which was definitely leftist (opposed to the rightest dictatorship of Agustin Pinochet).

samizdat
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Posts: 3511

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by samizdat »

The Church's immigration plan is there for everybody to see. The Church does NOT encourage people enter illegally nor visa overstays. The Church though DOES support plans that would not divide up the family. You will NEVER be able to deport an illegal immigrant population of 11 million nor build a wall to keep them out.

You have airplanes, drones, helicopters to go over any wall and tunnels to go under any wall. And the Mexican ingenuity of constructing a 51 foot ladder to go over a 50 foot high wall.

As long as current labor conditions exist there is going to be an invariable flow of migrants from poorer areas to richer areas. That is what is going on in Europe, and what is going on in the USA.

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skmo
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Posts: 4495

Re: Poll: illegal immigration

Post by skmo »

markharr wrote:Speaking of immigration. Can someone please explain to me why we are allowing a false prophet who isn't a citizen of this nation, let alone an elected representative to lecture us on immigration, and the death penalty?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ntiff.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I can explain it very simply:

The fruits of the Catholic Church throughout history speak volumes about those who lead it. If you need further information on this, try "The Great Apostasy" by James Talmage.

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