How Cults Work

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Joel
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Joel »

log wrote:I wonder - anyone have any examples of religions which don't fall under Shermer's definition?
The way John Hamer describes the Community of Christ maybe, I have no idea if it is actually the way he describes:


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Thinker
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Re: How Cults Work

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log wrote:I wonder - anyone have any examples of religions which don't fall under Shermer's definition?
Some degree of cult mentality can be found in many groups - even sport fan clubs.
However, most religions are not excessively involved in people's every day lives - controling how they spend their time and money, what underwear they wear, keeping finances dark and secret while using mind-control to charge money in return for a temple recommend and demanding they follow their prophet even if it contradicts Christ's teachings...

I love our church for some of the cult-like qualities - like instant sense of community and opportunities to serve or be served. Sitting in conference, was beautiful listening to the Mormon Tabernacle choir, but when the audience of about 30,000 began singing, my heart lept - and I got chills. There is strength in numbers and there is something inspiring when such a tremendous force of people unify in a simple purpose of singing.

Yet, it's not all-or-nothing. The church can have beautiful aspects and still have some negative - even harmful - ones.
Many members - especially in UT (which leads nation in anti-depressants) struggle with depression and anxiety.
In a book (by TBM LDS authors - Beyond Death's Door) - was explained that it's estimated that up to 80% of mental illness is rooted in Christian or Judaic misinterpretations of doctrine.
Utah (significantly lds) is 4th in nation for high statistics of bankruptcy and while most of the nation is seeing decreases, UT's bankruptcies are increasing.
There is significant reason to embrace the inspiring aspects of our church, while being cautious of the harmful aspects.

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Jim Kelley
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Re: How Cults Work

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Fiannan wrote:Thomas S. Monson is charismatic???? Oh please.
The Prophet Joseph Smith and The Prophet Brigham Young were as is Jesus Christ too.

Lucky for us these three Prophets were and are leaders of The One and Only True Church in the whole world.

That is the difference that should never be forgotten!

Brother Jim

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Sirocco
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Re: How Cults Work

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Thinker wrote:
log wrote:I wonder - anyone have any examples of religions which don't fall under Shermer's definition?
I love our church for some of the cult-like qualities - like instant sense of community and opportunities to serve or be served.
I'll admit, as much of an angry loner I can be, it was genuinely nice to have people want to talk to me, or just sit with me, though the face I must have made when that first happened... They were just so casual about it, and I found them very kind, even if I didn't agree with everything they believed.
And I suppose in my own warped way, not joining was my way of thanking them, because I cause all sorts of weird problems and can be very argumentative :))

KMCopeland
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Re: How Cults Work

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jwharton wrote:If you are looking at a general level, look at youth who can clean up and look nice and holy when passing the sacrament, but then you find out they have an alter-ego that allows them to be involved with intensely iniquitous behavior at rave parties, etc. Many of our youth are being destroyed by having fractured identities. I am confident our media and entertainment has been designed along the principles they have discovered to do this to them.
Hard for me to believe that was intentional.

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Re: How Cults Work

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KMCopeland,
It's hard for me to believe it is not intentional.
Media is becoming trashier and it is mostly run by a cult-like exclusionary group of people, who are also "unquestionable" (any questioning is labeled with ad hominem attack, "anti-semantism").

Seven Jewish Americans Control Most US Media/Jewish Dominance Of America - Facts Are Facts
http://www.rense.com/general44/sevenjewishamericans.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Comprehensive Lists of the Jews Who Dominate Us
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Sirocco wrote:
Thinker wrote:
log wrote:I wonder - anyone have any examples of religions which don't fall under Shermer's definition?
I love our church for some of the cult-like qualities - like instant sense of community and opportunities to serve or be served.
I'll admit, as much of an angry loner I can be, it was genuinely nice to have people want to talk to me, or just sit with me, though the face I must have made when that first happened... They were just so casual about it, and I found them very kind, even if I didn't agree with everything they believed.
And I suppose in my own warped way, not joining was my way of thanking them, because I cause all sorts of weird problems and can be very argumentative :))
I know people who have joined for the same reason - a sense of community.
We all need it - that's at least partly why everyone posts on this forum - craving a sense of connection.

The problem is when the group requires a compromise of principles to belong.
This happens in friend-circles, families and churches - like ours.
Last edited by Thinker on March 29th, 2015, 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fiannan
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Fiannan »

KMCopeland wrote:
jwharton wrote:If you are looking at a general level, look at youth who can clean up and look nice and holy when passing the sacrament, but then you find out they have an alter-ego that allows them to be involved with intensely iniquitous behavior at rave parties, etc. Many of our youth are being destroyed by having fractured identities. I am confident our media and entertainment has been designed along the principles they have discovered to do this to them.
Hard for me to believe that was intentional.
KMC, you need to look up the BBC documentary "Century of the Self" and watch at least parts 1-2. I would encourage you to watch all four parts. Then you will see just how intentional the consumeristic forces and government change agents really can be.

KMCopeland
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Re: How Cults Work

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Fiannan wrote:
KMCopeland wrote:
jwharton wrote:If you are looking at a general level, look at youth who can clean up and look nice and holy when passing the sacrament, but then you find out they have an alter-ego that allows them to be involved with intensely iniquitous behavior at rave parties, etc. Many of our youth are being destroyed by having fractured identities. I am confident our media and entertainment has been designed along the principles they have discovered to do this to them.
Hard for me to believe that was intentional.
KMC, you need to look up the BBC documentary "Century of the Self" and watch at least parts 1-2. I would encourage you to watch all four parts. Then you will see just how intentional the consumeristic forces and government change agents really can be.
Sounds worthwhile. I'll set aside the time.

Fiannan
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Fiannan »

Actually KMC I think everyone would benefit from watching Century of the Self. For the most part conservatives and liberals alike are naive about just how much they are slaves to marketing, cultural bias and political propaganda.

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Re: How Cults Work

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KMCopeland wrote:
Fiannan wrote:
KMCopeland wrote:jwharton wrote:
"If you are looking at a general level, look at youth who can clean up and look nice and holy when passing the sacrament, but then you find out they have an alter-ego that allows them to be involved with intensely iniquitous behavior at rave parties, etc. Many of our youth are being destroyed by having fractured identities. I am confident our media and entertainment has been designed along the principles they have discovered to do this to them."

Hard for me to believe that was intentional.
KMC, you need to look up the BBC documentary "Century of the Self" and watch at least parts 1-2. I would encourage you to watch all four parts. Then you will see just how intentional the consumeristic forces and government change agents really can be.
Sounds worthwhile. I'll set aside the time.
Yes, this documentary is for sure worth the time. Kudos for suggesting it.

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Joel
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Joel »

Anyone watching Going Clear on HBO? Its a documentary about Scientology. Pretty creepy.

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Sirocco
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Re: How Cults Work

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Yeah I am genuinely put off by Scientologists and Jehovah's Witnesses, I sometimes find Mormons a tad cooky in the "too kind" way, but it doesn't seem malicious.

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Joel
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Joel »

Sirocco wrote:Yeah I am genuinely put off by Scientologists and Jehovah's Witnesses, I sometimes find Mormons a tad cooky in the "too kind" way, but it doesn't seem malicious.
Scientology is malicious

https://thoughtmaybe.com/going-clear/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Joel on June 7th, 2015, 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sirocco
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Re: How Cults Work

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=== wrote:
Sirocco wrote:Yeah I am genuinely put off by Scientologists and Jehovah's Witnesses, I sometimes find Mormons a tad cooky in the "too kind" way, but it doesn't seem malicious.
Scientology is malicious

http://streamland.cc/videos.php?Id=5fdf ... be91ccb915" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And really, really stupid lol

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Joel
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Re: How Cults Work

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I am glad I was not on the Mexican island when L.Ron Hubbard fired upon it :-ss :))

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Jim Kelley
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Re: How Cults Work

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May I present two dictionary definitions and then some personal observations?

In my 1953 large edition (takes two large books) dictionary the definition for cult is; “Extravagant devotion to a person, cause, or thing.” Wouldn’t that fit a religion that whole heartily worships Jesus Christ?

Now my 2000 college edition dictionary. Third definition; “A religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist.” Notice anything added here?

Just a side note: I looked up gay in the 1953 dictionary and the definition is; “Merry, sportive, brilliant, showy, loving pleasure, happy, cheerful.” Any changes since 1953?

Here are my observations:

Starting way back there were movies (and I suppose books too) depicting “satanic cults.” This depiction was done quite well to paint the term “cult” as anything but righteous but only had to do with Satan and evil.

One of the later movies I am aware of depicting satanic cults for public consumption is the 1975 movie, Race With The Devil. Here is a link to a promo. I don’t think You Tube has this movie for free but for rent. Any way you can get the idea what this movie was about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqv6PIH_ymY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It would seem Satan did his homework well in brainwashing the public to be conditioned to think any religion that can be labeled as a cult is satanic.

Look at what is being said right on this thread. We are discussing all the anti-Mormon definitions for cult as if they really meant something when we should be exposing the anti-Mormon folly that changed the definition for the word cult to fit their anti-Mormon purposes. Obviously the anti-Mormons have succeeded judging from the newer dictionary definitions and many of today's conversations even on this thread.

It seems Satan wants to corrupt languages to fit his purposes. That is exactly why the words gay and queer have been destroyed today. Those were two perfectly good words that used to be used in everyday conversation. I personally think gay has been corrupted and adopted by the homosexual community to give the suggestion homosexuality is a merry way of life. I personally use the term homosexual instead of gay and queer.

Even the Nephite’s language was corrupted after a time (Moroni 10:32-33) so the end result was the BofM was harder to write and translate. But the Lord God knows all things and He provided a way for the BofM to be translated correctly for our day in English.

Satan isn’t doing anything on this earth that hasn’t already been done on other worlds before (Temple Endowment) so the corruptions of the word cult is only a part of Satan’s tried and proven plan to attack The True Church and should not be considered any more than that.

Bro. Jim

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Thinker
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Thinker »

Jim,
I agree that evil influences can be subtle - as slowly increasing the temperature of water until boiled to (spiritual) death.

When I think about cult mentality (religious, atheist, political, cultural...) I get a little nervous for myself and others - as if watching my kid try riding a bike for the first time.
To maintain a balance - you gotta keep going - but ideally avoiding crashing into thorny rose bushes. :D

Doubt is necessary for humble reliance on God and for progressing and realizing we don't know it all. Faith is also important - we literally walk and do everything by faith - belief we can do it with God's help. To lean too much on skeptical doubt - or blind faith - we're likely to lose balance and/or "crash" - miss the mark.

Each cult mentality may offer truth mixed with deceptive philosophies of men. So, it's important to maintain constant vigilence in studying, pondering and praying to discern what is good and true and to do God's will - to the best of our ability.

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Re: How Cults Work

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Jim Kelley wrote:May I present two dictionary definitions and then some personal observations?

In my 1953 large edition (takes two large books) dictionary the definition for cult is; “Extravagant devotion to a person, cause, or thing.” Wouldn’t that fit a religion that whole heartily worships Jesus Christ?

Now my 2000 college edition dictionary. Third definition; “A religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist.” Notice anything added here?

Just a side note: I looked up gay in the 1953 dictionary and the definition is; “Merry, sportive, brilliant, showy, loving pleasure, happy, cheerful.” Any changes since 1953?

Here are my observations:

Starting way back there were movies (and I suppose books too) depicting “satanic cults.” This depiction was done quite well to paint the term “cult” as anything but righteous but only had to do with Satan and evil.

One of the later movies I am aware of depicting satanic cults for public consumption is the 1975 movie, Race With The Devil. Here is a link to a promo. I don’t think You Tube has this movie for free but for rent. Any way you can get the idea what this movie was about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqv6PIH_ymY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It would seem Satan did his homework well in brainwashing the public to be conditioned to think any religion that can be labeled as a cult is satanic.

Look at what is being said right on this thread. We are discussing all the anti-Mormon definitions for cult as if they really meant something when we should be exposing the anti-Mormon folly that changed the definition for the word cult to fit their anti-Mormon purposes. Obviously the anti-Mormons have succeeded judging from the newer dictionary definitions and many of today's conversations even on this thread.

It seems Satan wants to corrupt languages to fit his purposes. That is exactly why the words gay and queer have been destroyed today. Those were two perfectly good words that used to be used in everyday conversation. I personally think gay has been corrupted and adopted by the homosexual community to give the suggestion homosexuality is a merry way of life. I personally use the term homosexual instead of gay and queer.

Even the Nephite’s language was corrupted after a time (Moroni 10:32-33) so the end result was the BofM was harder to write and translate. But the Lord God knows all things and He provided a way for the BofM to be translated correctly for our day in English.

Satan isn’t doing anything on this earth that hasn’t already been done on other worlds before (Temple Endowment) so the corruptions of the word cult is only a part of Satan’s tried and proven plan to attack The True Church and should not be considered any more than that.

Bro. Jim
Good points. But being called something awful is what has always been the case. Opposition to the Israelites, Abraham, the Jews, Jesus, and then his disciples, something evil along the same lines as people describe the church today. The actual persecution is not the same, although the character assassination technique is always about the same. And I will note, calling the Mormons a threat to civilization was more of the same. But understanding the use of cult to selectively place outrage out there is completely understandable.

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Jim Kelley
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Re: How Cults Work

Post by Jim Kelley »

Thinker wrote:Jim,
I agree that evil influences can be subtle - as slowly increasing the temperature of water until boiled to (spiritual) death.

When I think about cult mentality (religious, atheist, political, cultural...) I get a little nervous for myself and others - as if watching my kid try riding a bike for the first time.
To maintain a balance - you gotta keep going - but ideally avoiding crashing into thorny rose bushes. :D

Doubt is necessary for humble reliance on God and for progressing and realizing we don't know it all. Faith is also important - we literally walk and do everything by faith - belief we can do it with God's help. To lean too much on skeptical doubt - or blind faith - we're likely to lose balance and/or "crash" - miss the mark.

Each cult mentality may offer truth mixed with deceptive philosophies of men. So, it's important to maintain constant vigilence in studying, pondering and praying to discern what is good and true and to do God's will - to the best of our ability.
I am responding to your post because of your illustration about riding a bike into the rosebushes.

When I was a boy, in about 1955, a neighbor boy was riding my bicycle which was really to big for either one of us. David was riding my bike, pumping side to side, lost control and went into the rosebushes. Your illustration put a smile on my face and brought back a funny childhood memory.

Thanks,

Bro. Jim

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Thinker
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Re: How Cults Work

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Ouch! But I'm glad that brought back a fun memory.
One of my kids did that too.
I always thought the saying "life is roses" is accurate as long as you take them in their natural state - thorns and all. :)

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Joel
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gtoda
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Re: How Cults Work

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Thinker wrote:A respected friend told me I was in a cult and at first I was defensive, but then I began looking into it and sure enough, our church fits many characteristics.

Still, I see cult qualities in any group - and often those who come to hate the Mormon "cult" just move to another cult, adopting even more dysfunctional ideologies, like killing children as birth control, calling those who don't support legal "rights" based on sexual substitutes, "homophobes" or "bigots" (cult-like shunning), or making fun of "climate deniers" who object to spending billion$ on "climate change" bs.

You can take a person out of a cult, but it's tough to take the cult out of the person.
Very good points.

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Re: How Cults Work

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Speaking of cults. Image

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