POKER & THE ART OF WAR: To My Beloved, Fellow Patriots

[echecket]

A couple of years ago, while we were living in SLC, I went to the Church History Library and read in the April 1972 Conference Report that talk by Elder Benson. The statement about "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was missing. It is also missing from the July 1972 Ensign report of that talk. I have wondered why that statement was pulled but the recommendations of the other 3 books remained.

I was aware of that, Lundbaek. I have wondered the same thing. Obviously there are some who would hope our conclusion is that the church did it as a way to refute the endorsement. I'm not saying that that is not a possibility, but there are certainly other explanations.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

Honestly it is very likely that the prophet and seer saw the way we would take it up as doctrine and feared the association. I think we all too often are like Peter, overzealous. The book is good, but it obviously misses what that conspiracy has morphed into and it hasn't exactly been the brethren's main focus recently.

[dconrad000]

...There is A LOT OF INFO given in this lecture [Mr.Fagan's]...

Somebody sent me a video recently, on the topic -- that was very easy to watch and enjoyable. It is a sit-down interview with a very influential person in our contemporary society, who had befriended someone who was a member of the secret combination. He was shown a lot -- and attempts were made to entice him to join in on the spoils -- but he did not feel right about it, and politely declined.

It is 1 1/2 hours long -- but very interesting and easy to watch...could likely hold the attention of teenagers who are interested in the subject:

Reflections And Warnings - An Interview With Aaron Russo {Full Film}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAaPjqdbgQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


.

[echecket]

...There is A LOT OF INFO given in this lecture [Mr.Fagan's]...

Somebody sent me a video recently, on the topic -- that was very easy to watch and enjoyable. It is a sit-down interview with a very influential person in our contemporary society, who had befriended someone who was a member of the secret combination. He was shown a lot -- and attempts were made to entice him to join in on the spoils -- but he did not feel right about it, and politely declined.

It is 1 1/2 hours long -- but very interesting and easy to watch...could likely hold the attention of teenagers who are interested in the subject:

Reflections And Warnings - An Interview With Aaron Russo {Full Film}

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAaPjqdbgQ

I have seen this. God Bless Aaron Russo. I hope he's accepted the Gospel on the other side. Great man, as far as his commitment to freedom.

[dconrad000]

I have seen this. God Bless Aaron Russo. I hope he's accepted the Gospel on the other side. Great man, as far as his commitment to freedom.

He really speaks candidly in that interview..."wearing his heart on his sleeve"...comes across as a truly caring human being.

[dconrad000]

A couple of months ago, I came across this lecture by Stan Montieth; a foremost researcher on the subject. This is an hour & 43 minutes long. It is not as light and easy as the Aaron Russo interview, to watch...but it goes much deeper into who these people really are. I found it extremely informative, in better understanding who the enemy is:

Stan Montieth Lecture: "Brotherhood of Darkness"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbfl3iyA6bA

[dconrad000]

A couple of years ago, while we were living in SLC, I went to the Church History Library and read in the April 1972 Conference Report that talk by Elder Benson. The statement about "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was missing. It is also missing from the July 1972 Ensign report of that talk. I have wondered why that statement was pulled but the recommendations of the other 3 books remained.

I was aware of that, Lundbaek. I have wondered the same thing. Obviously there are some who would hope our conclusion is that the church did it as a way to refute the endorsement. I'm not saying that that is not a possibility, but there are certainly other explanations.

I have noticed, from time to time; for wise purposes related to the principle of diplomacy in this world -- the Church has exercised its authority to make some minor edits. There was an instance or two in the Book of Mormon...and one item in Bruce McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine". The slight alterations did not change the meaning or doctrine -- but made the passages more "diplomatic"...and I can see the wisdom in that.

[echecket]

A couple of years ago, while we were living in SLC, I went to the Church History Library and read in the April 1972 Conference Report that talk by Elder Benson. The statement about "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was missing. It is also missing from the July 1972 Ensign report of that talk. I have wondered why that statement was pulled but the recommendations of the other 3 books remained.

I was aware of that, Lundbaek. I have wondered the same thing. Obviously there are some who would hope our conclusion is that the church did it as a way to refute the endorsement. I'm not saying that that is not a possibility, but there are certainly other explanations.

I have noticed, from time to time; for wise purposes related to the principle of diplomacy in this world -- the Church has exercised its authority to make some minor edits. There was an instance or two in the Book of Mormon...and one item in Bruce McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine". The slight alterations did not change the meaning or doctrine -- but made the passages more "diplomatic"...and I can see the wisdom in that.

I agree with your point.

[dconrad000]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

[dconrad000]

Regarding "None Dare Call It Conspiracy".

...The book is good, but it obviously misses what that conspiracy has morphed into...

...true, the book has some short-comings...but what I like about that little book, is that it is indeed, a "little" book. You can get through it one sitting -- in a matter of a few hours...and for someone new to the topic...it is not only riveting...but very easy to understand.

...and for it's time (published in 1972)...it was definitely a courageous break-through.

...and so in my eyes, it is a classic, must read -- for anyone with a desire to begin to study the inner-workings of the great secret combination, in our day.

[dconrad000]

...what that conspiracy has morphed into...

My thoughts...the secret combination has morphed...but it is still basically the same...just more high-tech.

For instance, it used to be that in order to kill large numbers of citizens of a country, they typically needed to first take away all the citizen's guns. Now, they can kill you without first taking away all the guns. All they have to do is deceive large numbers of citizens into lining up for a vaccination...administer a soft-kill bioweapon to sterilize them, ruin their health, and shorten their life...or if they want to at some point...something faster acting can be administered.

[Jason]

...what that conspiracy has morphed into...

My thoughts...the secret combination has morphed...but it is still basically the same...just more high-tech.

For instance, it used to be that in order to large numbers of citizens of a country, they typically needed to first take away all the citizen's guns. Now, they can kill you without first taking away all the guns. All they have to do is deceive large numbers of citizens into lining up for a vaccination...administer a soft-kill bioweapon to sterilize them, ruin their health, and shorten their life...or if they want to at some point...something faster acting can be administered.

Yes that one is certainly a game changer!

[dconrad000]

...what that conspiracy has morphed into...

My thoughts...the secret combination has morphed...but it is still basically the same...just more high-tech.

For instance, it used to be that in order to kill large numbers of citizens of a country, they typically needed to first take away all the citizen's guns. Now, they can kill you without first taking away all the guns. All they have to do is deceive large numbers of citizens into lining up for a vaccination...administer a soft-kill bioweapon to sterilize them, ruin their health, and shorten their life...or if they want to at some point...something faster acting can be administered.

Yes that one is certainly a game changer!

...which is what caused me to step out of the shadows, where I could avoid becoming a target...and caused me to decide to take action.

[AussieOi]

Millions of martyrs through history might argue that your great man failed his great man test

[AussieOi]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

Do a search on this site for ”don't tweak the tail of the beast”

Personally I have found it a very disappointing argument and an excuse for members refusing to do the job that is up to them to do

[echecket]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

Do a search on this site for ”don't tweak the tail of the beast”

Personally I have found it a very disappointing argument and an excuse for members refusing to do the job that is up to them to do

Please enlighten me on what you believe is the job that is up to the members to do.

[ithink]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

Do a search on this site for ”don't tweak the tail of the beast”

Personally I have found it a very disappointing argument and an excuse for members refusing to do the job that is up to them to do

I enjoyed your message Conrad, but I agree with Aussie. I don't believe the doctrine of not tweaking the tail of the beast. I think that it matters not where or when a man dies, provided he dies at the post of honor and duty. I believe the the Lord's arm is not shortened that it cannot deliver. I believe that the doctrine of keeping your mouths shut is of the devil, and it angers the Lord. "For there are many that will not open their mouths... ye are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost it's savor..... ye are the light of the world, a city that is set on a hill cannot be hid.... " and so on. We even have statements from President Benson saying if the priesthood had done it's duty, it could rise up and save the constitution even now (then).

"And the righteous will I preserve -- even if it must be by fire".

For myself, I take no solace in keeping my mouth shut, but in opening it constantly in a barrage against all false doctrine and false beliefs, tryranny, and all manner of evil. But that is my way. For those who don't want to speak so loud, let them speak with a lifetime of their good works. Not everyone needs to go to battle, but it is not for those in the background to tell those in the front line to shut up any more than it is good for those in the background to go home.

As for "agreeing with thine adversary while thou art in the way with him", do not be confused. I routinely hold back saying things from time to time, but when I'm no longer "in the way", I can open up. I just do not agree with a world wide blanket of silence. Regionally, temporarily, specificially and very narrowly -- yes, but by and large it is open season on evil. Speak up folks, with your lives and your mouths, don't be afraid of the consequences, just do what is right for you wherever and whenever you are there.

Besides. Moroni still walks this earth from time to time. I am confident he wouldn't have it any other way, and I believe he knows a thing or two about liberty and how not to lose it, and remember -- we are the generation that will not drop the ball, but we setting it down gracefully is no better than dropping it.

[AussieOi]

...and to continue with the thought...regarding the above referenced edit in the archives, concerning "None Dare Call It Conspiracy"...

In this time when the great secret combination has become increasingly bold, far-reaching and vicious...it is wisdom that the Church would be keeping a "low-profile", with respect to such matters.

Do a search on this site for ”don't tweak the tail of the beast”

Personally I have found it a very disappointing argument and an excuse for members refusing to do the job that is up to them to do

Please enlighten me on what you believe is the job that is up to the members to do.

Its those things we whine at the brethren for not doing

[dconrad000]

Millions of martyrs through history might argue that your great man failed his great man test

Thank you for taking the time to share your sentiment on that point, AussieOi.

Here are my thoughts, about whether the great man passed or failed the test...

When times get hard -- so hard as to try one to the very core...

...to die...to go out in a blaze of glory...is the easy way out...and then suddenly you are in a better place...free from the cares of this world.

...no, when times get really hard...when you and everyone around you are really suffering...and there is an unending amount of back-breaking, soul-trying work to do, and you wish you were dead...

Is it then, not much harder to keep on living...to keep on working...to keep on enduring...day after day after day?

It does not matter what some may think about whether or not the great man passed the test. What really matters on the final day of judgement, is what the thousands of men, women and children that were saved because of his acts have to say, as they stand as that man's witness.

...and what really matters is what the man knows...and what Jesus knows...about whether the man acted steadfastly and true -- to what he knew in his heart and by the whisperings of the Spirit...to be his mission, and the most important thing that he could do with his life.

[dconrad000]

Thank you also ithink – for taking the time to express your thoughts on the matter.

As I contemplate what you have said, here are some thoughts that come to my mind:

Of the millions of current-day priesthood holders on the earth – 99%-plus are not operating in official capacities of the church, but are however totally capable of acting as concerned citizens – and doing their civic duty.

Do not our current-day prophets continue to encourage its members to be actively engaged in civic duties…to study the issues and engage in activity that will improve their communities and the world around them?

...and to study carefully, the Book Of Mormon?

If the millions of priesthood holders in the general membership of the Church…and even sisters were to follow both of those counsels, here is what would naturally follow:

When one takes the first step and studies…a mere reading of the Book of Mormon and the whisperings of the Spirit alerts them to the reality that we are indeed in an awful situation, in our day – with respect to the secret combination, clearly described to us in the Book of Mormon…and that me must not support it; but must work to root it out.

The brilliance of the way the Lord has things set up – is that He is able to get His specific instructions to each, individual church member, if they shall but follow the counsel of their prophet...without the prophet, in his official capacity as the President of the Church – having to make a public statement with specific instructions.

It is noteworthy, that once our beloved ETB took the mantle of Prophet, Seer and Revelator [President of the Church]…from that point on [1985], his statements about the secret combination were much more measured; much less frequent; and when they did occur – they were no more specific than the words which are in the Book of Mormon for all to see.

…and then, in the spirit of following that modern-day counsel from the Brethren – and in the spirit of a willingness to actually do what the Spirit prompts – those promptings shall come – and it would be well to follow them.

For many; as in my own case – those promptings will be to take action that will “tweek” and even twist the “tail of the beast”.

Such has occurred in my case, as I went from trying to protect myself and my family from becoming a target – to causing my name to appear on a document circulating to millions around the globe – which is extremely damaging to one of the most formidable weapons to the entire population of the world that the secret combination has – the Vaccine Industry. For more information about that, see the following topic and link:

Vaccine Infowar In Cardston Country

http://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9764

…and let the chips fall where they may…

Nothing would thrill me more, than to see millions of church members, acting in their unofficial capacities of merely concerned citizens, side-by-side with non-member patriots; bull-horning the Bilderberg Group meetings – with the words, “We know who you are; we know what you are doing in there; we will not be your slaves; we will defeat you; the answer to 1984, is 1776”…as a great non-member patriot has repeatedly done.

I’ll finish with this principle expressed in two quotes from the original post at the top:

Is it not wisdom, at this time – that by other men (which includes church members acting in unofficial capacities, together with non-members) and by other means, the secret combination shall continue to be exposed and meet its doom?

Each of us has different rolls, callings and missions in life; in accordance with the mind and will of the Lord. We must each seek that out, by the Spirit.

[ithink]

Thank you also ithink – for taking the time to express your thoughts on the matter.

As I contemplate what you have said, here are some thoughts that come to my mind:

Of the millions of current-day priesthood holders on the earth – 99%-plus are not operating in official capacities of the church, but are however totally capable of acting as concerned citizens – and doing their civic duty.

Do not our current-day prophets continue to encourage its members to be actively engaged in civic duties…to study the issues and engage in activity that will improve their communities and the world around them?

...and to study carefully, the Book Of Mormon?

No. Where I live, the bishop does not believe we are still under condemnation for taking the Book of Mormon lightly. Where I live, you will be removed from your calling if you teach a lesson on your civic duty to the young men, at least that is what happened to a good brother in our ward.

If the millions of priesthood holders in the general membership of the Church…and even sisters were to follow both of those counsels, here is what would naturally follow:

When one takes the first step and studies…a mere reading of the Book of Mormon and the whisperings of the Spirit alerts them to the reality that we are indeed in an awful situation, in our day – with respect to the secret combination, clearly described to us in the Book of Mormon…and that me must not support it; but must work to root it out.

Agreed. But this has not caught on where I am.

The brilliance of the way the Lord has things set up – is that He is able to get his specific instructions to the church members, if they shall but follow the counsel of their prophet – without the prophet, in his official capacity as the President of the Church – having to make a public statement with specific instructions.

It is noteworthy, that once our beloved ETB took the mantle of Prophet, Seer and Revelator…from that point on, his statements about the secret combination were much more measured; much less frequent; and when they did occur – they were no more specific than the words which are in the Book of Mormon for all to see.

Not always so. President Benson gave a talk in conference and asked us to consider Gary Allen's book None Dare Call it Conspiracy. If you watch the talk, you can see him say it, but if you look it up on the church archived website, it has been removed. So he did speak so clearly, but with time his words have been diluted and changed and currently do not accurately reflect what he actually said. I wish I could agree with you, but the facts do not universally support what you are saying. But in general, excepting this example I have given and other anomalies that I am aware of, I do agree.

…and then, in the spirit of following that modern-day counsel from the Brethren – and in the spirit of a willingness to actually do what the Spirit prompts – those promptings shall come – and it would be well to follow them.

For many; as in my own case – those prompting will be to take action that will “tweek” and even twist the “tail of the beast”.

Such has occurred in my case, as I went from trying to protect myself and my family from becoming a target – to causing my name to appear on a document circulating to millions around the globe – which is extremely damaging to one of the most formidable weapons to the entire population of the world that the secret combination has – the Vaccine Industry. For more information about that, see the following topic and link:

Vaccine Infowar In Cardston Country

http://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9764

…and let the chips fall where they may…

Nothing would thrill me more, than to see millions of church members, acting in their unofficial capacities of merely concerned citizens, side-by-side with non-member patriots; bull-horning the Bilderberg Group meetings – with the words, “We know who you are; we know what you are doing in there; we will not be your slaves; we will defeat you; the answer to 1984, is 1776”…as a great non-member patriot has repeatedly done.

I’ll finish with this principle expressed in two quotes from the original post at the top:

Is it not wisdom, at this time – that by other men (which includes church members acting in unofficial capacities, together with non-members) and by other means, the secret combination shall continue to be exposed and meet its doom?

Each of us has different rolls, callings and missions in life; in accordance with the mind and will of the Lord. We must each seek that out, by the Spirit.

My real name also is before the world, though not on this forum -- yet. It might be one day soon, but not until the things I have referred to previously are resolved, I must at this time remain anonymous.

I have seen your works and they are well done. Keep up the good work, I'm sure we'll be crossing paths personally sooner than later.

[dconrad000]

Thank you for your kind words, ithink...and for your desires to make this world a better place.

It seems we are practically on the same page then, except for one small variance that I would like to clarify:

When ETB gave that talk to which you refer it was 1972 -- thirteen years before he took on the mantle of Prophet, Seer and Revelator -- President -- and spokesman for the Lord to entire Church and world.

...and the edits to the 1972 talk and the reasons for them, have already been discussed, a little higher in the thread. I was specifically referring to the time period 1985, until his death -- as President of the Church.

...and there is one other point, to which we can probably both agree...as much as I love ETB...the most important Prophet of God to me at this very moment in time, save Jesus only...is the one that is alive and serving, right now.

[lundbaek]

ithink wrote in an above post: "No. Where I live, the bishop does not believe we are still under condemnation for taking the Book of Mormon lightly. Where I live, you will be removed from your calling if you teach a lesson on your civic duty to the young men, at least that is what happened to a good brother in our ward."

How did your Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher deal with SS Lesson #44, on "Being Good Citizens"?

[ithink]

Sun Tzu’s book, The Art of War, should be on everyones required reading list... for exactly the reasons posted. excellent observation and post.

War, maybe, but then, what of this? Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace, and seek diligently to turn the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children;

[ithink]

Thank you for your kind words, ithink...and for your desires to make this world a better place.

It seems we are practically on the same page then, except for one small variance that I would like to clarify:

When ETB gave that talk to which you refer it was 1972 -- thirteen years before he took on the mantle of Prophet, Seer and Revelator -- President -- and spokesman for the Lord to entire Church and world.

...and the edits to the 1972 talk and the reasons for them, have already been discussed, a little higher in the thread. I was specifically referring to the time period 1985, until his death -- as President of the Church.

...and there is one other point, to which we can probably both agree...as much as I love ETB...the most important Prophet of God to me at this very moment in time, save Jesus only...is the one that is alive and serving, right now.

We don't know the reasons why the talk was edited, and my issue is not that it was. My issue is that the talk is presented as his verbatim talk, when it is not. If a document is edited, it should be annotated that it is edited. In my opinion, unless edited by Elder Benson himself, the changes should be annotated, perhaps with a footnote with the missing piece with an explanation such as "This has been removed from the body of the text so to be sure not to put too much attention to the truth... ", well, a bit of humor can't hurt. But it begs the question: if that has been altered, what else has? Again, we don't know who modified that talk or why. All is speculation. As for me, I share the sentiments of Samuel Adams: " I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and prepare for it. ... (Samuel Adams)" I realize that it is the position of many to desire to protect the faith of the weak in various ways, but it is my belief in the next life when we look back we will see that that policy was one of accomodation of the faithlessness of the saints, not the actual will of God, but his will through his servants none the less when we deviate from his higher desires for us similar to the way divorce is tolerated, but is certainly not the will of the father to his children.