Self-Reliance and Precious Metals

[mes5464]

Does the church have any counsel about saving for a rainy day and whether we should use precious metals?

[Silver]

Does the church have any counsel about saving for a rainy day and whether we should use precious metals?

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-finances?lang=eng

President Ezra Taft Benson:
"Even though American citizens would still be forced by law to honor the same pieces of paper as though they were real money, instinctively they would rush and convert their paper currency into tangible material goods which could be used as barter. As in Germany and other nations that have previously traveled this road, the rush to get rid of dollars and acquire tangibles would rapidly accelerate the visible effects of inflation to where it might cost one hundred dollars or more for a single loaf of bread. Hoarded silver coins would begin to reappear as a separate monetary system which, since they have intrinsic value would remain firm, while printed paper money finally would become worth exactly its proper value-the paper it is printed on! Everyone's savings would be wiped out totally. No one could escape."

[captainfearnot]

Does the church have any counsel about saving for a rainy day and whether we should use precious metals?

http://jod.mrm.org/1/248

President Brigham Young:
“Were I to ask the question, how much wheat or anything else a man must have to justify him in letting it go to waste, it would be hard to answer; figures are inadequate to give the amount. Never let anything go to waste. Be prudent, save everything, and what you get more than you can take care of yourselves, ask your neighbors to help you. There are scores and hundreds of men in this house, if the question were asked them if they considered their grain a burden and a drudge to them, when they had plenty last year and the year before, that would answer in the affirmative, and were ready to part with it for next to nothing. How do they feel now, when their granaries are empty? If they had a few thousand bushels to spare now, would they not consider it a blessing? They would. Why? Because it would bring the gold and silver. But pause for a moment, and suppose you had millions of bushels to sell, and could sell it for twenty dollars per bushel, or for a million dollars per bushel, no matter what amount, so that you sell all your wheat, and transport it out of the country, and you are left with nothing more than a pile of gold, what good would it do you? You could not eat it, drink it, wear it, or carry it off where you could have something to eat. The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat. Gold is not to be compared with it in value. Why would it be precious to you now? Simply because you could get gold for it? Gold is good for nothing, only as men value it. It is no better than a piece of iron, a piece of limestone, or a piece of sandstone, and it is not half so good as the soil from which we raise our wheat, and other necessaries of life. The children of men love it, they lust after it, are greedy for it, and are ready to destroy themselves, and those around them, over whom they have any influence, to gain it.”

[mes5464]

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-finances?lang=eng

I found the origin of the ETB quote, thank you!

(An Enemy Hath Done This, p. 218.)
and
(The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson p 639-640.)

Was there anything in particular in the link to Family Finances that you where recommending? I don't believe anything on that page even alludes to a recommendation to save precious metals.

Pretty much my whole life I have only heard that the church DOESN'T recommend saving precious metals but that doesn't feel right to me.

[mes5464]

http://jod.mrm.org/1/248

President Brigham Young:
“Were I to ask the question, how much wheat or anything else a man must have to justify him in letting it go to waste, it would be hard to answer; figures are inadequate to give the amount. Never let anything go to waste. Be prudent, save everything, and what you get more than you can take care of yourselves, ask your neighbors to help you. There are scores and hundreds of men in this house, if the question were asked them if they considered their grain a burden and a drudge to them, when they had plenty last year and the year before, that would answer in the affirmative, and were ready to part with it for next to nothing. How do they feel now, when their granaries are empty? If they had a few thousand bushels to spare now, would they not consider it a blessing? They would. Why? Because it would bring the gold and silver. But pause for a moment, and suppose you had millions of bushels to sell, and could sell it for twenty dollars per bushel, or for a million dollars per bushel, no matter what amount, so that you sell all your wheat, and transport it out of the country, and you are left with nothing more than a pile of gold, what good would it do you? You could not eat it, drink it, wear it, or carry it off where you could have something to eat. The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat. Gold is not to be compared with it in value. Why would it be precious to you now? Simply because you could get gold for it? Gold is good for nothing, only as men value it. It is no better than a piece of iron, a piece of limestone, or a piece of sandstone, and it is not half so good as the soil from which we raise our wheat, and other necessaries of life. The children of men love it, they lust after it, are greedy for it, and are ready to destroy themselves, and those around them, over whom they have any influence, to gain it.”

This is they type of thing I have heard my whole life, and I agree with the prophet BY, that if it comes down to gold or food, choose food. However, I am taking the Self-Reliance: Personal Finance class right now and we are taught specifically to save 1-month emergency fund, 3- to 6- months savings. This is in addition to having food storage. It just seems more prudent to save at least a portion of your savings in something other than paper money. I am considering keeping the 1-month in cash and at least half of the 3- to 6- month savings in silver.

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[Silver]

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-finances?lang=eng

I found the origin of the ETB quote, thank you!

(An Enemy Hath Done This, p. 218.)
and
(The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson p 639-640.)

Was there anything in particular in the link to Family Finances that you where recommending? I don't believe anything on that page even alludes to a recommendation to save precious metals.

Pretty much my whole life I have only heard that the church DOESN'T recommend saving precious metals but that doesn't feel right to me.

The link to family Finances was intended to answer the first part of your question about saving for a rainy day.

I'm glad to hear you're enrolled in the Personal Finance class. On Jan. 28th I begin the Starting & Growing Your Business course as the facilitator. It will be my first time to be involved in the new Self Reliance program and am looking forward to it.

It's a sad thing that our fellow saints always drag out that tired old BY quote about gold. If BY really intended for the saints to get rid of all their gold, it would have made him the biggest hypocrite on earth. He had gold and silver in his pocket when he was talking to them, not Federal Reserve Notes. If he went to his bank and pulled out a chunk of money he was given silver and gold. Recency bias makes everybody now think that they're sharing some great wisdom when they use that quote. I wish they'd be more thoughtful and less anachronistic.

Which is made by God: gold or Federal Reserve Hiney Notes?
Which is approved by God: gold or the fractional reserve banking system?

[captainfearnot]

This is they type of thing I have heard my whole life, and I agree with the prophet BY, that if it comes down to gold or food, choose food. However, I am taking the Self-Reliance: Personal Finance class right now and we are taught specifically to save 1-month emergency fund, 3- to 6- months savings. This is in addition to having food storage. It just seems more prudent to save at least a portion of your savings in something other than paper money. I am considering keeping the 1-month in cash and at least half of the 3- to 6- month savings in silver.

I posted that BY quote a bit tongue in cheek. The fact is that the church (as such) has had very little to say one way or the other about the prudence of investing in precious metals. But just like every other topic on which the church holds no official position, it's not hard to find prophets and apostles coming down on either side of the issue.

I happen to think that precious metals are a perfectly legitimate component of a diversified investment portfolio, and plenty of Mormons agree. On your chart I think it's a fine choice for some of your assets in category number 4 and I don't think the church would say otherwise. Where I think people get off track is in thinking that gold should be part of the emergency fund, category number 2. The church has made it pretty clear, I think, that your emergency fund should be cash and food storage.

President Benson gave a talk in 1974 called Prepare Ye which is typical of the church's position over several decades. He says a lot about food storage, but not one word about precious metals. I think you'll find that most of the talks and lessons you find at Silver's lds.org link offer similar counsel.

Here are two articles you might find interesting by John T. Reed. He's not Mormon or anything, just a real estate investor. I find that his position on food storage and prepping for a hyperinflation scenario seems to mesh with the church's counsel nicely, he just goes into a bit more detail on why.

Disadvantages of Gold as an Inflation Hedge

You Should Have About Three Years' Worth of Food Stored

[mes5464]

I posted that BY quote a bit tongue in cheek. The fact is that the church (as such) has had very little to say one way or the other about the prudence of investing in precious metals. But just like every other topic on which the church holds no official position, it's not hard to find prophets and apostles coming down on either side of the issue.

I happen to think that precious metals are a perfectly legitimate component of a diversified investment portfolio, and plenty of Mormons agree. On your chart I think it's a fine choice for some of your assets in category number 4 and I don't think the church would say otherwise. Where I think people get off track is in thinking that gold should be part of the emergency fund, category number 2. The church has made it pretty clear, I think, that your emergency fund should be cash and food storage.

President Benson gave a talk in 1974 called Prepare Ye which is typical of the church's position over several decades. He says a lot about food storage, but not one word about precious metals. I think you'll find that most of the talks and lessons you find at Silver's lds.org link offer similar counsel.

Here are two articles you might find interesting by John T. Reed. He's not Mormon or anything, just a real estate investor. I find that his position on food storage and prepping for a hyperinflation scenario seems to mesh with the church's counsel nicely, he just goes into a bit more detail on why.

Disadvantages of Gold as an Inflation Hedge

You Should Have About Three Years' Worth of Food Stored

I read both of the articles and I agree with both of them. This is my take.

You should have as much food stored as you can. The only draw back to this is, if you have to move/flee how do you move all that food. With the right amount of time you can do it but in an emergency, you will likely have to leave it behind. In my last job search we had to leave behind a great deal of food storage because we simply didn't have the funds to move the food. God blessed us alter by leading us to someone else that was moving and they sold us their food storage for cheap. God does provide.

My second thought is, we need to have liquid funds, so what is the best method of saving that wealth. FRN are a must in the short term. You need money today to fix the car. But silver might be a good idea for saving to replace the car some day.

In both cases, confiscation is a possibility. In fact, all forms of wealth storage gold/food/land/etc are subject to theft or government confiscation. I don't see any way to escape that reality.