In Arizona?

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therealoptout
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In Arizona?

Postby therealoptout » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 pm

I'm in the East PHX valley and looking for those who have a heart for Zion and the drive to practice and perfect these principles now.

I believe we must build Zion in our heart, our home, and in our community as much as possible to fully prepare. We've got the educational model for families with young children (patterned after true education principles), the principles and outline for young adult education, and now I'm putting together a mastermind group to build a community of like-minded services and industries that can contribute to each other's success AND add value to the community at large in our abundant metropolis of suburban Mesa/Gilbert.

(education, health, nutrition, clothing, technology, and many other industries and services would be great additions)


This is NOT to build a UTOPIA.. this is to give those of us who feel the call an opportunity to have a real community to support each other as we develop ourselves and seek to serve Him. Are like me.. do you feel we have no time to waste to learn how to contribute our time and talents AND learn how to be part of a true community.

What would you contribute to a Zion community?

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"Since there are no instant Christians, to withhold what we can do to accelerate the process of the perfection of Zion until Zion is nearly perfect is to misconstrue mortality. To withhold all (or even much) of our fellowship, our talents, or our tithing until the Church and its people meet our 'high' standard is like trying to book passage on Noah's ark without driving a nail in a plank. We simply walk on board and ask to be shown to our stateroom and inquire as we we enter the stateroom about what time dinner is served at the Captain's table! We must sign on for the voyage with all our imperfections, and commit to help each other." -Neal A Maxwell; Wherefore, Ye Must Press Forward, (Salt Lake City; Deseret Book, 1977), 5-6.

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friendsofthe
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby friendsofthe » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:40 am

Perhaps you should just “lift where you stand”. Use your abilities and talents to bless your family, ward and stake… I’m thinking that when we actually return to Zion we will do so as wards, stakes etc.

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alaris
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby alaris » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:47 am

I'm in Gilbert, and I am game. :)

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Re: In Arizona?

Postby scottja » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:25 pm

In Gilbert as well

e-eye2.0
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby e-eye2.0 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:13 pm

I'm in northern Phoenix but like mentioned - Zion right now is found in our stakes that is what we need to strengthen but I think bouncing ideas on how to strengthen our stakes would be great. Just no point in looking beyond the mark.

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Z2100
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby Z2100 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:33 pm

East Mesa over here
We live in the 6920th year since the Fall of Man.

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Matchmaker
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby Matchmaker » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:02 am

Some ideas:
Start with the Ward. No need to go any higher at this point, as this task alone is overwhelming.

Make an effort to get to know someone (husband or wife) from every LDS family that lives within the Ward boundaries, active or not. Do what you can to serve and fellowship as many of them as possible, especially the less active or isolated ones. Notify the appropriate Priesthood leaders if you note any obvious needs that are not being met.

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Re: In Arizona?

Postby David13 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:06 am

Charity starts at home.
Which means your ward and community.
dc

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Robin Hood
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:18 am

therealoptout wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 pm
I'm in the East PHX valley and looking for those who have a heart for Zion and the drive to practice and perfect these principles now.

I believe we must build Zion in our heart, our home, and in our community as much as possible to fully prepare. We've got the educational model for families with young children (patterned after true education principles), the principles and outline for young adult education, and now I'm putting together a mastermind group to build a community of like-minded services and industries that can contribute to each other's success AND add value to the community at large in our abundant metropolis of suburban Mesa/Gilbert.

(education, health, nutrition, clothing, technology, and many other industries and services would be great additions)


This is NOT to build a UTOPIA.. this is to give those of us who feel the call an opportunity to have a real community to support each other as we develop ourselves and seek to serve Him. Are like me.. do you feel we have no time to waste to learn how to contribute our time and talents AND learn how to be part of a true community.

What would you contribute to a Zion community?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Since there are no instant Christians, to withhold what we can do to accelerate the process of the perfection of Zion until Zion is nearly perfect is to misconstrue mortality. To withhold all (or even much) of our fellowship, our talents, or our tithing until the Church and its people meet our 'high' standard is like trying to book passage on Noah's ark without driving a nail in a plank. We simply walk on board and ask to be shown to our stateroom and inquire as we we enter the stateroom about what time dinner is served at the Captain's table! We must sign on for the voyage with all our imperfections, and commit to help each other." -Neal A Maxwell; Wherefore, Ye Must Press Forward, (Salt Lake City; Deseret Book, 1977), 5-6.
It seems to me you're in great danger of making the same mistake the early Mormons did.
Where establishing Zion was concerned, they thought they could force the issue. They put the cart before the horse.
They failed every attempt because their hearts were not right.
My advice is to establish Zion internally first, within your own heart. We will become a Zion people when we do this, and not until. Set up as many co-operatives etc. as you like, it will achieve nothing if you don't lay the right foundations.

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Re: In Arizona?

Postby lundbaek » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:30 am

I live in Mesa, just off Extension, between Baseline and Guadalupe. I can appreciate the apparent goal of Therealoptout, but at this time this sort of thing is not part of my agenda. Nr. 1 on my personal agenda outside our home and family is to do what I can to remind or advise as many Latter-day Saints as I can reach that we have a doctrinal imperative to preserve the liberty the Lord gave us when He, among other things, established the Constitution of the United States, and that we were more than once commanded by a Prophet to learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, or as the Founders meant it to be understood. And in that connection, I hope those of you who live in Gilbert, AZ, attended and supported the Constitution Day fair/celebration Saturday evening, this past 16 September. Did you stop by the JBS and Constitution Party booths ?

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therealoptout
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Clarification

Postby therealoptout » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:24 am

Please understand that I am establishing a training ground where we can learn how to educate ourselves and our youth and do business with each other and also those in the world who are either drawn to us or have needs that could be filled. (Within a central location to where those who want to participate are already living and doing business.)

Imagine a college for the whole family, that includes the opportunity to work and run your business where the priority is to grow personally and be able to serve more, not to grow the profits of one massive corporation.

A place to do business that is anchored by true education that avoids both traditional contentious competition and falling into unrighteous pride. The two priorities will be for:
1) each person/family to be productive, adding value into the community (serving the needs of others using the talents and skills we've been blessed with or can learn)
2) each person to learn and progress in an environment where individual worth, divine nature and true principles are honored and taught.

We've been taught how to treat or fellow men, how to do business in His way and how to educate or families in a way that brings them to Him. It's time to help more people have the opportunity to experience, learn and practice these principles. And unless directed by the spirit or by Church authorities we don't need to isolate ourselves or move to a secluded location to do so.

Some example things that we could have would be:
Educational programs for school-age children teaching them how to read and write through an academic program based on the personal revelation they received on their own mission and purpose in life.
  • Accounting and tax services two maximize our liberty as we function as families or businesses and the support to do that within the current system of taxation.
  • Opportunities to grow and learn new talents, done in a way that invites the spirit. For example, ballroom dance classes that of course only use uplifting music and have high standards of modesty.
  • Physical therapy office who's focus is education and healing those who are learning how to better care for there miracle of a body.
  • A restaurant that focuses on health at the highest level of what we understand about foods that will nourish and strengthen our bodies, using much produce from the gardens within our community.
  • A resource center for things that our families traditionally would stash away in an attic that could be instead checked out and used by families as their needs arise.
  • A commercial kitchen for both cooking classes and for families/friends to do large projects like seasonal canning.
    I theater for uplifting music and other performances.
The full list is endless for what could be included. Each business would be invited to help provide some educational value in addition to their product or services, and the part of a council deciding on how to better serve the community, working in unity to help each other.

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therealoptout
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby therealoptout » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:33 am

friendsofthe wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:40 am
Perhaps you should just “lift where you stand”. Use your abilities and talents to bless your family, ward and stake… I’m thinking that when we actually return to Zion we will do so as wards, stakes etc.
Thank you, for your response! I hope you take the time to check out my clarification. :D This is for those who are also currently lifting where they stand in their family/ward/stake, but would like to also lift their education and business communities.

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therealoptout
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby therealoptout » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:36 am

e-eye2.0 wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:13 pm
I'm in northern Phoenix but like mentioned - Zion right now is found in our stakes that is what we need to strengthen but I think bouncing ideas on how to strengthen our stakes would be great. Just no point in looking beyond the mark.
Thank you, for your response! I hope you take the time to check out my clarification. :D Many of our stakes are doing a fantastic program that encourages continued education, advancement in employment and business ownership (entrepreneurship). This thread is about raising the flag for those who want to practice those principles together. :D

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therealoptout
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby therealoptout » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:39 am

Matchmaker wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:02 am
Some ideas:
Start with the Ward. No need to go any higher at this point, as this task alone is overwhelming.

Make an effort to get to know someone (husband or wife) from every LDS family that lives within the Ward boundaries, active or not. Do what you can to serve and fellowship as many of them as possible, especially the less active or isolated ones. Notify the appropriate Priesthood leaders if you note any obvious needs that are not being met.
Thank you, for your response! Those are great ideas. I hope you take the time to check out my clarification. :D We've already had wonderful experiences where families working/learning with us have been strengthened to be more a part of their Ward family. The fruit is so good and leads the individual to seek what He has for them. :)

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therealoptout
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby therealoptout » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:44 am

Robin Hood wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:18 am

It seems to me you're in great danger of making the same mistake the early Mormons did.
Where establishing Zion was concerned, they thought they could force the issue. They put the cart before the horse.
They failed every attempt because their hearts were not right.
My advice is to establish Zion internally first, within your own heart. We will become a Zion people when we do this, and not until. Set up as many co-operatives etc. as you like, it will achieve nothing if you don't lay the right foundations.
Thank you, for your response! I hope you take the time to check out my clarification. :D Foundation is key, and also this is a training ground for a few aspects of our lives where were we can practice true principles of education and business.

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therealoptout
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby therealoptout » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:58 am

lundbaek wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:30 am
I live in Mesa, just off Extension, between Baseline and Guadalupe. I can appreciate the apparent goal of Therealoptout, but at this time this sort of thing is not part of my agenda. Nr. 1 on my personal agenda outside our home and family is to do what I can to remind or advise as many Latter-day Saints as I can reach that we have a doctrinal imperative to preserve the liberty the Lord gave us when He, among other things, established the Constitution of the United States, and that we were more than once commanded by a Prophet to learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers, or as the Founders meant it to be understood. And in that connection, I hope those of you who live in Gilbert, AZ, attended and supported the Constitution Day fair/celebration Saturday evening, this past 16 September. Did you stop by the JBS and Constitution Party booths ?
Thank you, for your response! I 100% agree that true principles of government should not only be taught but also practices in every way we still have the liberty to, in our homes, schools, and businesses. :) Teaching these principles without omitting their relationship to divinely decreed instructions has been an important difference to us at our school. The tyrants who would take our liberty know it will be done primarily through their educational systems and so any educational model/system that I promote is outside of their control. We have a stewardship to protect. :D

A key thing that I have observed is that if there is a division within a household on what they are learning (for example: children learning Socialism and parent learning the Constitution) **especially if the parents teach the children to honor and respect what they are being taught** it creates disconnection that is very difficult to repair on more than the topic of governmental philosophy. It is not only possible, but such a blessing to have consistency! To hear a principle at church that agrees with the culture and teachings at home that is observed and studied at school that is honored and upheld where we do business.. to me, this is one clear way to live in the world but not be of the world.

Again, thank you for efforts to be a blessing in your community!

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Re: In Arizona?

Postby BrianM » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:48 pm

Honestly, I would ignore those who say you're "looking beyond the mark" or "making a mistake"... if you feel like you should find and gather together with more like-minded people, do it. Whether you get one interested person or many, it is worth associating with like-minded people in your community. Just don't worry too much about trying to convince anyone of it - people will either be naturally interested or they won't. There will always be people who talk down your ideas.

Based on your clarification post, which includes more details, I would just say start small and see what happens. Even if you don't achieve all of the overall goals, finding more like-minded people to associate with is excellent. I've seen groups like this come together and accomplish great things, although on a smaller scale.
All my opinions are tentative pending further data...

The Matrix is real...

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Re: Clarification

Postby skmo » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:41 pm

therealoptout wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:24 am
...I am establishing a training ground where we can learn how to educate ourselves and our youth and do business with each other and also those in the world who are either drawn to us or have needs that could be filled. ...

...Each business would be invited to help provide some educational value in addition to their product or services, and the part of a council deciding on how to better serve the community, working in unity to help each other.
Like the one the Branch Davidians had near Waco, Texas? Like the one they had in Jonestown, Guyana? Like the Yearning For Zion Ranch near Eldorado, Texas? Like Heritage USA in Fort Mill, SC? Like Heaven's Gate in San Diego, CA?

No thanks. There's already been an organization established by God to do that. Too often when people attempt to band together without revelation there seems to be Kool-Aid involved.
Governments don’t live together, people live together. With governments you don’t always get a fair word or a fair fight. Well I’ve come here to give you either one - Or get either one from you.

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Re: Clarification

Postby Michelle » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:17 pm

skmo wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:41 pm
therealoptout wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:24 am
...I am establishing a training ground where we can learn how to educate ourselves and our youth and do business with each other and also those in the world who are either drawn to us or have needs that could be filled. ...

...Each business would be invited to help provide some educational value in addition to their product or services, and the part of a council deciding on how to better serve the community, working in unity to help each other.
Like the one the Branch Davidians had near Waco, Texas? Like the one they had in Jonestown, Guyana? Like the Yearning For Zion Ranch near Eldorado, Texas? Like Heritage USA in Fort Mill, SC? Like Heaven's Gate in San Diego, CA?

No thanks. There's already been an organization established by God to do that. Too often when people attempt to band together without revelation there seems to be Kool-Aid involved.
Funny, I thought of successful groups like the Amish and Homestead Heritage in Texas. She seemed to indicate she wasn't planning on seclusion, but collaboration. I see nothing she suggested that would lead me to think any sort of crazy suicide group with a cult leader, just a group of people working toward a common goal of improvement and support.

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Re: Clarification

Postby skmo » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:10 pm

Michelle wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:17 pm
She seemed to indicate she wasn't planning on seclusion, but collaboration. I see nothing she suggested that would lead me to think any sort of crazy suicide group with a cult leader, just a group of people working toward a common goal of improvement and support.
Charlie Manson just wanted to start making music albums and movies on a ranch in California with a very successful Beach Boy. If I'm mistaken, well, it'll only be about the 23rd billionth time in my life, and one more won't hurt. However, I've never, not once, seen anything with "Zion" attached to it (in the modern world) end in anything less than disaster or destruction, other than one bank. Even the ZCMI Mall was destroyed.
Governments don’t live together, people live together. With governments you don’t always get a fair word or a fair fight. Well I’ve come here to give you either one - Or get either one from you.

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therealoptout
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Re: In Arizona?

Postby therealoptout » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:44 pm

"Be of good cheer. The future is as bright as your faith." TSM :)

To those seeking good things, thank you for your examples!

Send me a private message if you'd like an invite to an online (web/video) meeting set for the week after Dec 9th. (For those who would like to contribute or be involved in some positive way.)

And we will NOT be calling this Zion OR exclude those who are not LDS. In the case that it wasn't clear.

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Re: Clarification

Postby harakim » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:14 pm

therealoptout wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:24 am
Please understand that I am establishing a training ground where we can learn how to educate ourselves and our youth and do business with each other and also those in the world who are either drawn to us or have needs that could be filled. (Within a central location to where those who want to participate are already living and doing business.)

Imagine a college for the whole family, that includes the opportunity to work and run your business where the priority is to grow personally and be able to serve more, not to grow the profits of one massive corporation.

A place to do business that is anchored by true education that avoids both traditional contentious competition and falling into unrighteous pride. The two priorities will be for:
1) each person/family to be productive, adding value into the community (serving the needs of others using the talents and skills we've been blessed with or can learn)
2) each person to learn and progress in an environment where individual worth, divine nature and true principles are honored and taught.

We've been taught how to treat or fellow men, how to do business in His way and how to educate or families in a way that brings them to Him. It's time to help more people have the opportunity to experience, learn and practice these principles. And unless directed by the spirit or by Church authorities we don't need to isolate ourselves or move to a secluded location to do so.

Some example things that we could have would be:
Educational programs for school-age children teaching them how to read and write through an academic program based on the personal revelation they received on their own mission and purpose in life.
  • Accounting and tax services two maximize our liberty as we function as families or businesses and the support to do that within the current system of taxation.
  • Opportunities to grow and learn new talents, done in a way that invites the spirit. For example, ballroom dance classes that of course only use uplifting music and have high standards of modesty.
  • Physical therapy office who's focus is education and healing those who are learning how to better care for there miracle of a body.
  • A restaurant that focuses on health at the highest level of what we understand about foods that will nourish and strengthen our bodies, using much produce from the gardens within our community.
  • A resource center for things that our families traditionally would stash away in an attic that could be instead checked out and used by families as their needs arise.
  • A commercial kitchen for both cooking classes and for families/friends to do large projects like seasonal canning.
    I theater for uplifting music and other performances.
The full list is endless for what could be included. Each business would be invited to help provide some educational value in addition to their product or services, and the part of a council deciding on how to better serve the community, working in unity to help each other.
I have been thinking of doing something very similar in Utah

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Re: In Arizona?

Postby natasha » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:06 am

I think it is interesting in regard to the"new" directive from our leaders on how we will be teaching in Relief Society and in Priesthood Quorums starting in 2018. After just seeing briefly how they want it to operate, it seems our learning will be designed to meet the needs of our Ward and community. This seems to be a step in the direction to gather us together to discuss needs, etc. I see this as a move in the direction to help us toward a Zion community.

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Re: In Arizona?

Postby therealoptout » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:59 am

natasha wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:06 am
I think it is interesting in regard to the"new" directive from our leaders on how we will be teaching in Relief Society and in Priesthood Quorums starting in 2018. After just seeing briefly how they want it to operate, it seems our learning will be designed to meet the needs of our Ward and community. This seems to be a step in the direction to gather us together to discuss needs, etc. I see this as a move in the direction to help us toward a Zion community.
Absolutely! I'm so excited for this!!


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