Page 1 of 2

Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 4:17 pm
by moonwhim
Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies
By Chuck Baldwin
January 26, 2017
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/ta ... abies.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Last Sunday, January 22, was the forty-fourth anniversary of the Roe v Wade and Doe v Bolton Supreme Court decisions legalizing abortion-on-demand. Since those dreadful decisions, nearly sixty million helpless, innocent unborn babies have been mercilessly slaughtered in the wombs of their mothers.

Think about it: an American fifty years of age or younger has no conscious recollection of a country where abortion-on-demand was NOT legal. And the truth is, both major parties and the vast majority of America’s pastors and churches are equally culpable for this slaughter of innocents.

The Republican Party touts itself as being "pro-life." The claim is so much hot air. The GOP controlled the entire federal government for six of G.W. Bush's eight years in office. They did nothing about Roe. This in spite of the fact that every year Congressman Ron Paul would introduce the "Sanctity of Life" Act; and every year the GOP leadership in Congress let the bill collect dust in the document room and die. And President Bush never once voiced his support for the bill. NOT ONCE. The bill was never voted on by a congressional committee, much less by the Congress as a whole.

Had Dr. Paul's bill become law it would have 1) defined life as beginning at conception, and 2) under Article. III. Section. 2. of the U.S. Constitution, completely removed abortion from the jurisdiction of the Court, thereby overturning Roe v Wade. All of this talk about “nothing can be done about abortion-on-demand until some magical configuration of the Supreme Court” is just smoke and mirrors. Congress and the President could end abortion-on-demand anytime they wanted to. Plus, never forget that the Supreme Court has been dominated by Republican appointments ever since the Roe decision in 1973--and still nothing. NOTHING!

To add insult to injury, these national "pro-life" organizations like the “National Right To Life Committee,” “Focus On The Family,” and the “U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops”--and their affiliates at the State level--have consistently OPPOSED Dr. Paul’s “Sanctity of Life” Act and State personhood bills. Their reasoning goes something like this: “Since it was a Supreme Court ruling that instituted abortion-on-demand, we must wait for the U.S. Supreme Court to issue a ruling reversing the decision.” Such reasoning is Balderdash!

In 1857, the Supreme Court issued a ruling that African slaves were “so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect; and that the Negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit. He was bought and sold, and treated as an ordinary article of merchandise and traffic, whenever a profit could be made by it.”

Now please tell me, when was the Dred Scott decision EVER reversed by the Supreme Court? It wasn’t! The Supreme Court NEVER reversed the Dred Scott decision. It was reversed by the passage of the 14th Amendment in 1868. And as you know, a constitutional amendment is an act of the U.S. Congress proposing and the individual states approving an amendment. In other words, the Supreme Court wasn’t involved in the remedy AT ALL.

It is the responsibility of each branch of Congress to serve as a check and balance to the other two branches. In other words, when the Supreme Court issues an unconstitutional ruling (which the Roe and Doe decisions certainly were), it is the duty of the other two branches, especially Congress, to correct the abridgments of the judicial branch. Why else would Article. III. Section. 2. (along with other provisions) even be in the U.S. Constitution? To suggest that the Supreme Court is the final arbiter of the Constitution is antithetical to the sacrosanct doctrine of the separation of powers, which America is founded on.

I submit that if the Supreme Court is the lone arbiter of the Constitution, the oaths that a President and members of Congress take to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States” are absolutely moot and meaningless. Why take an oath to something you have no obligation to or responsibility for? If the Supreme Court alone is the arbiter of the Constitution, the other two branches of government are totally unnecessary.

Here is what Thomas Jefferson wrote regarding this fallacious doctrine of judicial supremacy:

"The Constitution . . . meant that its coordinate branches should be checks on each other. But the opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves in their own sphere of action but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch." (Thomas Jefferson to Abigail Adams, 1804)

"The question whether the judges are invested with exclusive authority to decide on the constitutionality of a law has been heretofore a subject of consideration with me in the exercise of official duties. Certainly there is not a word in the Constitution which has given that power to them more than to the Executive or Legislative branches." (Thomas Jefferson to W. H. Torrance, 1815)

"In denying the right [the Supreme Court usurps] of exclusively explaining the Constitution . . . then indeed is our Constitution a complete [act of suicide]. For intending to establish three departments, coordinate and independent, that they might check and balance one another, it has given, according to this opinion, to one of them alone the right to prescribe rules for the government of the others, and to that one, too, which is unelected by and independent of the nation. . . . The Constitution on this hypothesis is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary, which they may twist and shape into any form they please." (Thomas Jefferson to Spencer Roane, 1819)

"To consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions [is] a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men and not more so. They have with others the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps. . . . And their power the more dangerous as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves." (Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820)

These so-called pro-life organizations have been waiting around for forty-four years for the magical configuration of the Supreme Court to reverse Roe. And in the meantime, nearly sixty million unborn babies have died. And again, I remind you that the Republican Party has dominated the appointments to the Supreme Court during the years following the Roe and Doe decisions in 1973--and continue to dominate the makeup of the Court today.

Also digest this: these national “pro-life” organizations commonly have retirement benefits built into the contracts of their staff. What does that tell you? It tells you that these organizations have no intention or expectation of Roe being reversed. I personally believe these "pro-life" groups care NOTHING about ending abortion, because if that actually happened, they wouldn't be able to continue to suck millions of dollars annually from pro-life Christians and conservatives and, thus, keep their plush jobs intact.

At the national and State levels, these so-called pro-life organizations lobby AGAINST personhood bills and bills such as Ron Paul’s “Sanctity of Life” Act. They--as much as liberal Democrats--are responsible for our federal and State legislatures doing NOTHING to reverse Roe. Legislators like it because it allows them to tout themselves as being “pro-life” to their constituents back home without sticking their necks out, and “pro-life” organizations like it because it allows them to keep up their fundraising efforts--which allows them to stay employed in a cushy lobbying job without having to produce anything.

This past Sunday, I brought a message to our fellowship entitled “I Formed Thee In The Belly,” taken from the first chapter of Jeremiah. Let me ask you: how many pastors across the country even bothered to address the Roe decision this past Sunday? How many bothered to bring a detailed exegesis on what the Bible teaches regarding the right to life, when life begins, and God’s laws and principles regarding the killing of unborn children? Come on, be honest. How many of you who attended church last Sunday heard more than a two-minute soundbite about abortion--if even a mention at all?

To watch my message from last Sunday, go here:

"I Formed Thee In The Belly"

I also have a video presentation entitled “The Case For The Life Of The Unborn.” And should you order the video, we will also give you a printed copy of President Ronald Reagan’s masterful treatise, “Abortion And The Conscious Of The Nation.”

To order this video, go here:

Combo: “The Case For The Life Of The Unborn” DVD Message By Dr. Chuck Baldwin And "Abortion And The Conscience Of The Nation" Treatise By President Ronald Reagan

I urge you to share this video with your friends and kinfolk. And don’t assume for one minute that your Christian friends and relatives understand the scriptural teaching about abortion. According to recent surveys, some 70% of the women and girls who have abortions identify themselves as Christians; and some 40% of the women and girls who have abortions attend church regularly. What does that tell you? It tells you that pastors are doing a lousy job of teaching their churches the core principles of Biblical Natural Law truth.

I dare suggest that a majority of professing Christians have never heard the material presented in the videos mentioned above. Who knows? These messages might help save a baby’s life. If pastors were preaching the truth, the lives of untold numbers of babies could be saved.

In my message last Sunday, I read a letter from a lady who told me that after watching my messages at Liberty Fellowship that explain the Biblical position of abortion, she pleaded with her pregnant daughter to not abort her child after being told that the baby might have Downs Syndrome. The mother was able to help the daughter come to understand the issue, and, thankfully, the daughter made the decision to not abort the baby. Today that child (yes, it has Downs) is home and being raised by a loving mother and grandmother. And both mother and grandmother say the child is “God’s perfect gift to us.”

You and I both know that the only reason the slaughter of innocents has gone on this long in our country is because the vast majority of pastors and churches are completely silent and apathetic on the subject. Pastors and churches are the nation’s moral compass and conscience, and when they are indifferent to a national moral crisis, the nation itself (especially our politicians) remains indifferent.

Culpability for the slaughter of millions of unborn babies lies on the doorstep of the American church and clergy, on the doorstep of the so-called pro-life organizations, and on the doorstep of the Republican Party as much as on the doorsteps of Supreme Court justices and liberal Democrats who openly supported (and continue to support) legalized abortion.

Yes, I know that President Donald Trump issued an Executive Order reinstating the “Mexico City Policy” that denies U.S. taxpayer funds for overseas abortions. I applaud that decision. (I like all of the executive orders I have seen that Trump has issued so far.) However, I will add: if Donald Trump truly wanted to start draining the swamp, he would stop ALL foreign aid--including aid to Israel. In the meantime, I remind you that the reinstatement of the “Mexico City Policy” does NOTHING to stop a single abortion here in the United States.

Just like in the Bush II presidency, the Republican Party will completely control the entire federal government for the next four years. How many of you want to wager that four years from now the Roe decision will be overturned and abortion-on-demand made illegal in this country again?

The famed French political thinker and historian, Alexis De Tocqueville, said this about our country: “America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.” As long as the U.S. is aborting almost 4,000 unborn babies EVERY DAY, she is NOT good.

I don’t care how many walls Donald Trump builds; I don’t care how many jobs Donald Trump brings back; I don’t care how many wars Donald Trump fights on behalf of Benjamin Netanyahu. As long as America continues to legally sanction the wanton killing of unborn babies, God’s judgment against this country will continue.

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 4:25 pm
by EmmaLee
If any of you live near any of these, I encourage you to attend. Sadly, there are none in my state (no surprise).

http://marchforlife.org/mfl-2017/local- ... fe-events/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 4:30 pm
by Lizzy60
His closing sentence is absolutely correct. It also applies to the acceptance and legalization of homosexual marriage.

As a side note, most pro-choice groups put the LDS Church in the "moderately pro-choice" column, because the Handbook states that an abortion can used if the health of the mother is in danger. Not the life of the mother, but her health. A member on another forum told about his 15-yr-old niece who obtained an abortion because giving birth would have put her behind in school, and caused her embarrassment, and perhaps have limited her marriage options in the future. He said this was an unhealthy situation for her, and her bishop okayed her aborting the child. I understand that this is probably not the intent of the Handbook, but in the abortion debates both sides are very well versed in the difference of "life" or "health" of the mother when any church, or state, defines their parameters on abortion.

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 8:36 pm
by braingrunt
So much evil

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 26th, 2017, 10:16 pm
by Col. Flagg
IMO, the church should be far more outspoken and standing up in defense of the unborn, but it's like it's not even on their radar. :(

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 27th, 2017, 5:39 am
by simpleton
The leaders of the church used to be be very adamantly outspoken about the murder of the unborn ....( 1800s into early 1900s)
But now I guess Gods mind changed with the winds of change and now its ok officially to abort under certain circumstances ...
Which i personally think is absolutely abhorrent....

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 27th, 2017, 6:52 am
by Lizzy60
^^^^^^ I personally KNOW it's absolutely abhorrent.

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 27th, 2017, 10:10 am
by shadow
simpleton wrote:The leaders of the church used to be be very adamantly outspoken about the murder of the unborn ....( 1800s into early 1900s)
But now I guess Gods mind changed with the winds of change and now its ok officially to abort under certain circumstances ...
Which i personally think is absolutely abhorrent....
To be clear on what the church actually says-
The handbook states:

"The Church opposes abortion as one of the most revolting and sinful practices of this day. Members must not submit to, be a party to, or perform an abortion. The only exceptions are the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or health of the woman is in jeopardy or the pregnancy resulted from incest or rape. Even then, the woman should consider an abortion only after counseling with her husband and bishop or branch president, and receiving divine confirmation through prayer."

What does the church say needs to take place before an abortion is even considered?
Let me help you-
"receiving divine confirmation through prayer."

Just because you and some others say the church is lax on abortion doesn't make it so.

"Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret." -President Gordon B Hinckley

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 27th, 2017, 10:36 am
by Todd
shadow wrote: The handbook states:

"The Church opposes abortion as one of the most revolting and sinful practices of this day. Members must not submit to, be a party to, or perform an abortion. The only exceptions are the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or health of the woman is in jeopardy or the pregnancy resulted from incest or rape. Even then, the woman should consider an abortion only after counseling with her husband and bishop or branch president, and receiving divine confirmation through prayer."

What does the church say needs to take place before an abortion is even considered?
Let me help you-
"receiving divine confirmation through prayer."

"Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret." -President Gordon B Hinckley
Thanks Shadow for giving light to the actual verbiage.

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 27th, 2017, 11:28 am
by Col. Flagg
shadow wrote:
simpleton wrote:The leaders of the church used to be be very adamantly outspoken about the murder of the unborn ....( 1800s into early 1900s)
But now I guess Gods mind changed with the winds of change and now its ok officially to abort under certain circumstances ...
Which i personally think is absolutely abhorrent....
To be clear on what the church actually says-
The handbook states:

"The Church opposes abortion as one of the most revolting and sinful practices of this day. Members must not submit to, be a party to, or perform an abortion. The only exceptions are the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or health of the woman is in jeopardy or the pregnancy resulted from incest or rape. Even then, the woman should consider an abortion only after counseling with her husband and bishop or branch president, and receiving divine confirmation through prayer."

What does the church say needs to take place before an abortion is even considered?
Let me help you-
"receiving divine confirmation through prayer."

Just because you and some others say the church is lax on abortion doesn't make it so.

"Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret." -President Gordon B Hinckley
When was the last time we, as a church, were outspoken on the evil of abortion and condemned it to the nation? And when was the last time we funded a cause to fight it?

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 27th, 2017, 11:32 am
by SmallFarm
Col. Flagg wrote:
shadow wrote:
simpleton wrote:The leaders of the church used to be be very adamantly outspoken about the murder of the unborn ....( 1800s into early 1900s)
But now I guess Gods mind changed with the winds of change and now its ok officially to abort under certain circumstances ...
Which i personally think is absolutely abhorrent....
To be clear on what the church actually says-
The handbook states:

"The Church opposes abortion as one of the most revolting and sinful practices of this day. Members must not submit to, be a party to, or perform an abortion. The only exceptions are the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or health of the woman is in jeopardy or the pregnancy resulted from incest or rape. Even then, the woman should consider an abortion only after counseling with her husband and bishop or branch president, and receiving divine confirmation through prayer."

What does the church say needs to take place before an abortion is even considered?
Let me help you-
"receiving divine confirmation through prayer."

Just because you and some others say the church is lax on abortion doesn't make it so.

"Abortion is an ugly thing, a debasing thing, a thing which inevitably brings remorse and sorrow and regret." -President Gordon B Hinckley
When was the last time we, as a church, were outspoken on the evil of abortion and condemned it to the nation? And when was the last time we funded a cause to fight it?
The Zealots of Judea didn't recognize Christ because they were looking for a warrior to rescue them from the corrupt government of the time.

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 27th, 2017, 1:44 pm
by Col. Flagg
http://www.lifenews.com/2017/01/27/pres ... fe-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

VP Pence Will Send Remarks to March for Life to Encourage 600,000 Pro-Life People

:)

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 27th, 2017, 7:19 pm
by simpleton
If anybody receives "divine confirmation through prayer" to murder an innocent child be it from rape or incest or health of the mother or for any other of the many poor excuses used i would say the answer came from hell itself...
I would really like to know the actual statistics of babies murdered for those specific reasons... i think the vast majority are convience or shame abortions...

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: January 28th, 2017, 8:13 am
by EmmaLee
simpleton wrote:I would really like to know the actual statistics of babies murdered for those specific reasons... i think the vast majority are convience or shame abortions...
• 21% Inadequate finances
• 21% Not ready for responsibility
• 16% Woman’s life would be changed too much
• 12% Problems with relationships, unmarried
• 11% Too young and/or immature
• 8% Children are grown; she has all she wants
• 3% Baby has possible health problems
• <1% Pregnancy caused by rape/incest
• 4% Other

From - http://www.operationrescue.org/about-ab ... n-america/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 2004, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women from nine different abortion clinics across the country. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.

<0.5% Victim of rape
3% Fetal health problems
4% Physical health problems
4% Would interfere with education or career
7% Not mature enough to raise a child
8% Don't want to be a single mother
19% Done having children
23% Can't afford a baby
25% Not ready for a child
6% Other

The state of Florida records a reason for every abortion that occurs within its borders each year. In 2015, there were 71,740 abortions in Florida. This table lists each reason and the percentage of abortions that occurred because of it.

.001% The pregnancy resulted from an incestuous relationship
.065% The woman's life was endangered by the pregnancy
.085% The woman was raped

.288% The woman's physical health was threatened by the pregnancy
.294% The woman's psychological health was threatened by the pregnancy
.666% There was a serious fetal abnormality
6.268% The woman aborted for social or economic reasons
92.330% No reason (elective)

From - http://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_ab ... statistics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: February 7th, 2017, 8:56 am
by Zion2080
Well, everything is going to get worse in society until the lord starts to preach his own sermons...

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: February 7th, 2017, 10:13 am
by DesertWonderer
The good news they will ALL received their exaltation.

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: February 7th, 2017, 12:35 pm
by h_p
If that's not bad enough, this is coming out now from former Planned Parenthood employees that they had abortion quotas. Exceeding them earned them rewards: pizza parties, paid time off, lunches with upper management.

https://twitter.com/LilaGraceRose/statu ... 42/video/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So sick.

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: February 7th, 2017, 12:47 pm
by EmmaLee
Just beyond sad, disgusting, heartbreaking. Leaves me utterly perplexed at how most of my LDS women friends are 'pro-choice' and vote for, march for, and support Planned Parenthood every chance they get. :(

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: February 15th, 2017, 4:13 am
by Sasquatch
I don’t care how many walls Donald Trump builds; I don’t care how many jobs Donald Trump brings back; I don’t care how many wars Donald Trump fights on behalf of Benjamin Netanyahu. As long as America continues to legally sanction the wanton killing of unborn babies, God’s judgment against this country will continue.
It's probably safe to assume that the influx of illegal immigrants, outsourcing of jobs, and growth of the police state are the early series of consequences for this nation embracing and promoting such abominations as abortion and homosexuality, in addition to general wickedness. Any attempts to curb these issues (erecting a border wall, bribing companies to remain in the country, etc.) serve only to treat the symptoms without attacking and destroying the infection. And the current problems are simply inconvenient. Actual suffering, destruction, and despair will visit the U.S. and other wicked nations as the immorality increases, especially as the church itself becomes more worldly.
When was the last time we, as a church, were outspoken on the evil of abortion and condemned it to the nation? And when was the last time we funded a cause to fight it?
Yes, we should be more vocal in our opposition towards abortion, but how many (active, tithe-paying, temple worshipping) members are actually opposed to abortion? I would wager are very significant portion of members who are theoretically doing everything they should are pro-choice and also supportive of gay marriage and transgender rights. When other active or semi-active members are taken into account, it's probably much higher. How can we be steadfast and visible in opposition to abortion when so many of our own are supportive of it?

Maybe that's why the Church has downplayed its vocal opposition towards abortion, homosexuality, socialism, etc. Remember that the Prophet speaks to the entire world, not just us members. Since the world at large has accepted and is actively promoting evil practices, and church members at best are lukewarm in opposing them for fear of persecution, what's the use in continuing to warn against such abominations? The Lord will speak and expect us to act for ourselves. If we are given counsel multiple times and ultimately embrace what we were counselled against, why should we expect further warnngs? We know we shouldn't do it, but we do, and soon the penalty will need to be paid.

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: March 19th, 2017, 9:46 pm
by clott44
I enjoyed this post and share the concerns of the author. Here in Virginia, a veterinarian is required to use powerful anesthesia before euthanizing an animal to prevent pain for the animal. The state legislature recently passed a law that would prevent the painful killing of unborn, "third trimester" children. The state attorney general, Mark Herring, immediately announced such a law was unconstitutional. What he didn't say was that barnyard animals are guaranteed humane treatment but human fetuses that can feel pain are not protected. John Adams, a conservative, is now running for the office of attorney general and he strongly opposes the leftist decisions and actions of the current attorney general (who also is actively opposing President Trump's executive order calling for better vetting of refugees from certain middle eastern countries). There is no "equal protection" for unborn babies here because the leftist agenda doesn't allow for even the smallest amount of "humane" treatment for them. Let us pray for the souls of these misguided liberals because, when they pass away, they will be greeted by the many spirits of unborn children they denied the opportunity to enjoy an earthly life. Their reward lies not in heaven, but is lurking beneath. -- clott44

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: March 21st, 2017, 5:30 am
by simpleton
Apostle George Q. Cannon (1827 - 1901):


“There is one thing that I am told is practiced to some extent among us, and I say to you that where it is practiced and not thoroughly repented of the curse of God will follow it. I refer to the practice of preventing the birth of children. I want to lift my voice in solemn warning against this, and I say to you that the woman who practices such devilish arts, or the man who consents to them, will be cursed of God. Such persons will be cursed in their bodies, cursed in their minds, cursed in their property, cursed in their offspring. God will wipe them out from the midst of this people and nation. Remember it. Mothers, teach this to your daughters, for I tell you it is true. I need not pronounce any curse, whatever my authority may be, but I say to you that women who take this course, and men who consent to it, will be cursed of God Almighty, and it will rest upon them until their generation shall be blotted out, and their name shall be lost from the midst of the Saints of God, unless, as I have said, there is deep, thorough and heartfelt repentance.”

- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Collected Discourses, v. 5, October 7, 1894

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: March 21st, 2017, 6:14 am
by simpleton
Apostle George Q. Cannon (1827 - 1901):


“There is one thing that I am told is practiced to some extent among us, and I say to you that where it is practiced and not thoroughly repented of the curse of God will follow it. I refer to the practice of preventing the birth of children. I want to lift my voice in solemn warning against this, and I say to you that the woman who practices such devilish arts, or the man who consents to them, will be cursed of God. Such persons will be cursed in their bodies, cursed in their minds, cursed in their property, cursed in their offspring. God will wipe them out from the midst of this people and nation. Remember it. Mothers, teach this to your daughters, for I tell you it is true. I need not pronounce any curse, whatever my authority may be, but I say to you that women who take this course, and men who consent to it, will be cursed of God Almighty, and it will rest upon them until their generation shall be blotted out, and their name shall be lost from the midst of the Saints of God, unless, as I have said, there is deep, thorough and heartfelt repentance.”

- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Collected Discourses, v. 5, October 7, 1894

Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith (1876 - 1972):

“Those who attempt to pervert the ways of the Lord, and to prevent their offspring from coming into the world in obedience to this great command, are guilty of one of the most heinous crimes in the category. There is no promise of eternal salvation and exaltation for such as they, for by their acts they prove their unworthiness for exaltation and unfitness for a kingdom where the crowning glory is the continuation of the family union and eternal increase which have been promised to all those who obey the law of the Lord. It is just as much murder to destroy life before as it is after birth, although man-made laws may not so consider it; but there is One who does take notice and his justice and judgment are sure.
“I feel only the greatest contempt for those who, because of a little worldly learning or a feeling of their own superiority over others, advocate and endeavor to control the so-called ‘lower classes' from what they are pleased to call "indiscriminate breeding."
“The old colonial stock that one or two centuries ago laid the foundation of our great nation, is rapidly being replaced by the ‘lower classes' of a sturdier and more worthy race. Worthier because they have not learned, in these modern times, to disregard the great commandment given to man by our Heavenly Father. It is indeed, a case of survival of the fittest, and it is only a matter of time before those who so strongly advocate and practice the pernicious doctrine of ‘birth control' and the limiting of the number of children in the family, will have legislated themselves and their kind out of this mortal existence.”

- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Relief Society Magazine, v. 3, no. 7, July 1916


“The world teaches birth control. Tragically, many of our sisters subscribe to its pills and practices when they could easily provide earthly tabernacles for more of our Father's children. We know that every spirit assigned to this earth will come, whether through us or someone else. There are couples in the Church who think they are getting along just fine with their limited families but who will someday suffer the pains of remorse when they meet the spirits that might have been part of their posterity.”

- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1969, p. 12

It is contradictory to this covenant to prevent the birth of children if the parents are in good health.
“Thirty-five years ago when I first started practicing medicine, it was a rare thing for a married woman to seek advice about how she could keep from having babies. When I finished practicing medicine, it was a rare thing, except for some faithful Latter-day Saint women, for a married woman to want to have more than one or two children, and some did not want any children. We in the Church must not be caught up in the false doctrines of the world that would cause us to break sacred temple covenants.”

- Seventy J. Ballard Washburn, April 1995 General Conference

There are multitudes of pure and holy spirits waiting to take tabernacles, now what is our duty? To prepare tabernacles for them; to take a course that will not tend to drive those spirits into the families of the wicked, where they will be trained in wickedness, debauchery, and every species of crime. It is the duty of every righteous man and woman to prepare tabernacles for all the spirits they can.
Brigham Young.


Taken from discourse by President John Taylor
Delivered at the General
Conference, April 9, 1882,
Journal of Discourses,
Volume 23, page 66.

It has become unfashionable in the east for women to have large families. I have heard remarks like this: one lady was asked, How many children have you? One or two. Is that all? What do you take me for, do you think I am a cow? Why no, you are not a cow, for cows do not murder their offspring. What a terrible tale is here told! What a horrible state of affairs is here exhibited. And I am told that some of these iniquities are being introduced here. I tell you in the name of God, if you do we will be after you. I am told of Physicians who are acting as they do in the east - as the butchers of infants. Let us look after these things, you Bishops, and if you do find it out, bring them up. As God lives we will not permit such infamies in our midst; you will not commence your fashionable murders here. And I will say now, Wo to this nation and to the nations of Europe, or any people among any nation, that sanctions these things. Have you not read that no "murderer hath eternal life abiding in him?" What shall be of those unnatural monsters, the slayers of their own offspring? This revolting, unnatural, damnable vice may be fashionable, but God will require this crime at their hands. Wo to men and to women that are licentious and corrupt, depraved and debauched, and especially wo, tenfold wo, to the murderers of helpless innocence. I tell you this in the name of the Lord. If these things are not stopped, God will arise and shake the nations of the earth and root out their infamies.


Taken from Discourse by President George Q. Cannon,
Delivered in the Tabernacle, Provo,
Nov 20, 1884,
Journal of Discourses,
Volume 26, page 14.

If we were guilty of those crimes so fashionable in the world whereby the increase of families is prevented, I do not suppose their would be one word said about our system of marriage; I have no idea there would be. But the fact that we do raise children, the fact our houses and settlements are full of healthy offspring, is a standing protest against the crimes of the age; it is a standing protest against those abominable practices that are destroying the foundation of many communities within the confines of the United States, and they are determined - those who are guilty of these things - that we shall not exist. The loudest outcry against us, and the most devoted efforts against us, come from the region where these dreadful practices prevail, where women murder their offspring before they are born, are guilty of this pre-natal murder, among the people of the United States who think themselves the most enlightened. Twenty five years ago when I was laboring in the ministry in that region I visited one of the towns, and the President of the branch of the Saints there, (an old resident, whose ancestors were among the first settlers of the town) told me his wife was continually jeered at - and this was twenty five years ago - by her associates, because she bore children, and bore them regularly - that she did not take the means to prevent the increase of her family! If I had not known him I could scarcely have believed it, it was too horrid. I have learned since, however, that that is a common practice in that region. The feature of that society that impresses most vividly a traveler from Utah is the fewness of children in what are called the best families. And yet it is from there that the principle outcry is raised against us, and the determination expressed to break up our families and to destroy us.
God has gathered a few people out from the nations of the earth, out of Babylon. But shall they partake of these influences? I say to you my sisters, you teach your daughters against this accursed practice, or they will go to hell, they will be damned, they will be murderers, and the blood of innocence will be found upon them. A man that would sanction such a thing in his family, or that would live with a woman guilty of such acts, shares in the crime of murder. I would no more perform the ordinance of laying on of hands on a woman who is guilty of that crime if I knew it, than I would put my hands on the head of a rattle snake. We must set our faces like flint against such acts. These dreadful practices are coming up like a tidal wave and washing against our walls; for there are women among us who secretly - so I am told, I know nothing about this personally, but I am told there are women among us who are instilling this murderous and accursed idea into the breasts of women and girls in our midst. Now just as sure as it is done, and people yield to it, so sure will they be damned, they will be damned with the deepest damnation; because it will be the damnation of shedding innocent blood, for which there is no forgiveness; and I would no more, as I say, administer to such women, baptize them, or perform any ordinance of the Gospel for them, than I would a reptile. They are outside the pale of salvation. They are in a position that nothing can be done for them. They cut themselves off by such acts from all hopes of salvation.

Taken from discourse by President John Taylor,
Delivered at the General
Conference, April 9, 1882,
Journal of Discourses,
Volume 23, page 62.

Already are we interfering with the laws of nature and stopping the functions of life, and have become the slayers of our own offspring, and employ human butchers in the shape of physicians to assist in this diabolical and murderous work. The sins of this nation, the licentiousness, the debauchery, the murders are entering into the ears of the Lord of Sabbaoth, and I tell you now, from the tops of these mountains, as a humble servant of the living God, that unless these infamies are stopped, this nation will be overthrown, and its glory, power, dominion and wealth will fade away like the dews of a summer morning. I also say to other nations of the earth, that unless they repent of their crimes, their iniquities and abominations, their thrones will be overturned, their kingdoms and governments overthrown, and their lands made desolate. This is not only my saying, but it is the saying of those ancient prophets which they themselves profess to believe; for God will speedily have a controversy with the nations of the earth....There are certain principles that belong to humanity outside of the Constitution, outside of the laws, outside of all the enactments and plans of man, among which is the right to live; God gave us the right and not man; no government gave it to us, and no government has a right to take it away from us.

Taken from discourse by Apostle Erastus Snow,
Delivered in the Tabernacle, Provo,
May 31, 1885,
Journal of Discourses,
Volume 26, page 219.

In modern Christendom - in these United States especially, and in staid New England more than perhaps any other portion of this American Continent is this commandment of God to multiply and replenish the earth nullified. The Latter-day Saints are looked upon with envy, with jealousy and reproach because they do not take the same view as they do, and their numerous families stand out in bold contrast with the New England families, where you will find as you go through the land one two, or at most three children in a family, and many families with none. In some instances this apparent sterility may have resulted from various abuses, but in most cases the result of wicked men and women to counteract and prevent the fulfilling of the great commandment of God to multiply and replenish the earth, and in many instances, foeticide, infanticide and child-murder are the result of this very general desire to avoid the responsibility of families. It has become a crying evil in the land. Some writers deeply deplore this crying evil, and represent it in its true light; while many other writers and speakers are either silent upon the subject or give their voice and influence in its favor. A few years ago, I remembered to have read a discourse of Brooklyn's great orator, Henry Ward Beecher, in which he took the ground that any considerable increase of the human species would be a positive evil, something to be deplored; and he elaborately attempted to portray the evils that would result from it, and the whole tendency of the discourse was to discourage the multiplication of human species. Others have followed in the same train of reasoning. They seem to have forgotten the commandment given to our first parents, and never to have comprehended the purposes of Jehovah. Those who adopt these views have seemed to imagine that there would be greater happiness in the gratification of fleshly lusts, and in pandering to pride and worldly pleasures, and the increase of wealth, than to obey the commandment of God. They have resolved to avoid raising large families. The last tour I took through New England, (which is my native country), about twelve years ago, I was more deeply impressed with this state of things than I have ever been before. When I was a boy, in Vermont, I knew not the ways of the world, and comprehended not what was going on, in our large cities and more populous parts of the country. I was born of honest parentage, who reverenced the principles of life and salvation, and I understood not what was going on around me, nor do I think those evils existed there to the same extent that they now do. But as I remarked, when I made my last tour through New England, I was more forcibly impressed with this state of society than ever before. I spoke of it to my aged aunt in Rhode Island. I said to her: "Aunt, when you were young, and when my mother was young, rearing large families, it was a source of joy and pleasure to rear offspring . Now as I go through the land, I see the efforts of the people are in an opposite direction." "Oh, yes," said she, "it is unpopular now, for people to have large families; it is considered vulgar, men and women now seek to avoid these responsibilities." This is a well known fact. The tendency of the age is to animalism, to the gratification of fleshly lusts and worldly pleasures. Well, the Latter-day saints have experienced in their own lives something nobler, and have learned to recognize the wisdom of Jehovah in that order of things which He enjoined upon our first parents. This is the marked difference between the unbelieving world and the Latter-day saints. I say the unbelieving world, because I regard this doctrine which I have referred to as a doctrine of devils and not the doctrine of Christ; that the tendency of it leads as I before remarked, to foeticide, infanticide, child murder, and to the gratification of fleshly lusts and worldly pleasures without fulfilling the great object and purposes of our Father, and the effect in the end would be the wasting away of the human species if it were generally adopted. It is high time that a voice from heaven should rebuke it. It is high time that the Lord, who wishes to raise up seed unto himself, should command his people and renew upon them the obligations placed upon our first parents. It is to the Latter day Saints that this mission has been committed, and the result is the multitude of school children that we find all over this territory. Over fifty thousand Sabbath school children in the territory of Utah - nearly one third of the entire population, as shown our statistics at our various conferences - are children under eight years of age. This is a startling fact to that class of the Christian world who are pursuing the opposite course. One of the Sabbath school superintendents of the city of New York, recently expressed himself very pointedly and plainly upon this subject in relation to the wealthy portion of the church going people of New York. In several thousand families attending the popular churches of New York, there could be mustered only about eighty Sabbath school children, and he attributed it to this prevailing desire for pleasure, wealth, and the shirking of the cares and responsibilities of the household, until the rearing of families was left almost entirely to the poor, to what is termed the vulgar people.......the chief warfare against the Latter-day saints at the present time is an endeavor to compel us to conform to their new state of things, or to their ideas of social sins and social duties.

Taken from discourse by President John Taylor
Delivered at American Fork,
November 28, 1879
Journal of Discourses,
Volume 21, page 116.

Not long ago, I was called upon by some intelligent, or those who profess to be intelligent men, who asked me something about polygamy. "How is it with you," said I; "do you know that in this land of yours you are murdering hundreds of thousands of infants every year? Do you know that you have among you people who are considered the most fashionable and honorable that are murderers, who destroy the life that God has given before and after birth, and interfere with the laws of the almighty? Do you know that they are doing that?" "Yes, we believe they are doing it." "Do you know that you are wallowing in corruption and degradation, and that your social evils and other damnable corruptions that exist are spreading and permeating through all your society?" "Yes." "Well, you please go and attend to your own affairs. It certainly does not look well for you who hail from these sinks of infamy and degradation to preach morality to us. Please attend to your own affairs first and get them straightened out before you come to correct us."

Taken from discourse by President John Taylor
Delivered in the Tabernacle,
Salt Lake City, Oct 6, 1884,
Journal of discourses,
Volume 25, page 315.

President Cannon read as follows:
Dr. Nathan Allen, of Lowell, has declared in a paper read before a late meeting of the American Social Sciences Association, that "nowhere in the history of the world was the practice of abortion so common as in this country; and he gave expression to the opinion that, in New England alone, many thousands of abortions are procured annually."
Dr. Reamy, of the Ohio State Medical Society, says: "from a very large verbal and written correspondence in this and other states, together with personal investigation and facts accumulated that we have become a nation of murderers."
The Rev. Dr. Eddy writes to the Christian advocate regarding one little village of 1,000 inhabitants: "Yet here, and elsewhere, where 15 percent of wives have the criminal hardihood to practice this black art, there is a still large and additional percent who endorse and defend it. * * Among married persons, so extensive has this practice become, that people of high repute not only commit this crime, but do not shun to speak boastingly among their intimates of the deed, and the means of accomplishing it."
Dr. Allen further states: "Examining the number of deaths, we find that there are absolutely more deaths than births among the strictly American children, so that aside from immigration and births of children of foreign parentage, the population of Massachusetts is rapidly decreasing. The birth rate in the State of New York, shows the same fact, that American families do not increase at all, and inspection of the registration in other states shows the same remark applies to all."
Bishop Coxe, of the Protestant Episcopal Church, of New York, in a pastoral letter to his people writes: "I have heretofore warned my flock against the blood-guiltiness of antenatal infanticide. If any doubts existed heretofore as to the propriety of my warnings on this subject, they must now disappear before the fact that the world itself is beginning to be horrified by the practical results of the sacrifice to Moloch, which defile our land. Again I warn you that they who do such things, cannot inherit eternal life. If there be a special damnation for those who shed innocent blood, what must be the portion of those who have no mercy upon their own flesh."
Dr. Cowan, M.D., writing on what he styles "The Murder of the Unborn," says: "that this crime is not only wide-spread on this great continent, but is rapidly on the increase, we have the testimony of physicians, whose investigations have been thorough, and whose social standing and integrity cannot be questioned."
President Taylor continuing said: These are the people that are coming here to reform us, and are so disgusted with our corruptions. Yet I am pleased to find that there are, once in a while, men, who have the courage to speak against these damning evils. Bishop Coxe, of the Episcopal Church, is one of these men, and I honor such men whenever I hear of them, and should be glad at all times to extend to them all courtesies possible. Dr. Allen and Dr. Reamy are inspired it seems, by the same detestation of these hellish, these fiendish, these outrageous acts. Yet from these people come our reformers, who are so horrified at the evils they see in Utah. But fortunately, the bed is too short, they cannot stretch themselves on it; and the covering is too narrow and too contracted, it will not cover them, and their evils and abominations crop out on every side, and they become their own accusers.
It is their own statements that I have read to you this morning. I am sorry to know that these things are as they are; but these are facts, and we do not feel very much honored with the association of such people. We do feel honored always to associate with honorable men and women; but with the seducer, with harlots, with thieves, with murderers of the innocents, no! never! no never! We want no association with them. As it is stated here by one of these reverend gentlemen in the East, speaking of these things, no murderer hath eternal life in him, nor no murderesses have eternal life in them....I want to warn our brethren and sisters against these infamies, and against permitting these filthy wretches to come into their houses. They are too low, too debased, too corrupt; and I speak of it because I know what I am talking about; there are some of these people crawling around us like so many vipers, and insinuating their hellish, murderous practices into the families of some who call themselves Latter-day Saints. Woe! to such saints. You cannot have a place among the Latter-day Saints, and I speak of it that the Presidents of Stakes and the Bishops may be apprised of these things. And some of these people would try to pass by the Bishops, and then by the Presidents of Stakes, and then by the President of the Church, and crawl with all their slime and damnable hypocrisy into the Temples of the living God. They may pass by these, but they will have to pass by the angels and the Gods, before they get through, and they will never inherit the Kingdom of God. Hear it you sisters! Hear it you brethren! Hear it you Bishops, and you Presidents of Stakes! Watch well and know well what you are doing, when you sign recommends for doubtful characters to go into these holy places. We do not want them there. It is not their place, and you will have to account for your acts if you permit these things knowingly. It is necessary that you should be particular about these matters, for you will have to answer for your doings as I have for mine. We cannot, because of relationship, because somebody is a cousin, or an uncle, or an aunt, or a brother, or a sister, or a son or a daughter, or a father or a mother we cannot admit and will not admit them to any of these holy places unless they are worthy.
President Taylor continued: (page 353)
In pondering over the above sickening details...I note deliberately the weight of testimony furnished by a host of their most honorable and reliable men in the East, to whom I give all honor, who calmly and deliberately pronounce them "a nation of murderers," "the slayers of the innocent," the consumers of their own flesh. In connection with this terrible record we have in our prominent cities, flaunted before our eyes, their dens of infamy and crime, impudently and unblushingly paraded before us, and stuck under our very noses. In looking at these things I ask myself can human depravity descend any lower, and the humiliating answer comes, yes! yes!! yes!!!
I have had these things read for more reasons than one. First to show the hypocrisy of those who come here to teach us morality, and who proscribe the acts of a pure and industrious people who dwell in these mountains. And for another purpose, to guard our brethren and sisters against the encroachments of such fiends in human form as those persons here referred to. We cannot have, and won' t have adulterers and adulteresses among us, much less will we have those who, by murder, stain their consciences and damn themselves forever. You sisters, guard yourselves against these infamies or you will sink yourselves down, down, down to pits of infamy and ruin, that you never dreamed of. I do not wonder that the Prophets have expressed themselves as strongly as they have in relation to the events that shall overtake the world. I remember that some 30 years ago, there was one of our brethren in an eastern city, I heard a report about his wife being engaged in something of that sort. I asked him if it were true. He said it was. I don’t know when I felt such a loathing for a human being in my life as I felt toward her. I would sooner have touched a rattlesnake than touched her hand. And I feel so to-day. We cannot degrade ourselves with these fiendish practices. All are not guilty; for as I have frequently said there are thousands and millions of honorable men and women throughout the land. But these evils which exist in this and other nations are too terrible almost to be spoken of; yet it is requisite they should be presented before you Latter-day Saints, that you may remember the pit from whence you were dug, and the rock from whence you were hewn; that you may appreciate in some measure the blessings you enjoy, and your freedom from these infamies in this land of Zion. And I would say to you bishops - if you find adulterers and adulteresses in the Church, cut them off, they cannot be associated with the Latter-day Saints.

Taken from discourse by Apostle Erastus Snow
Delivered in the tabernacle,
Salt Lake City, April 6, 1883,
Journal of Discourses,
Volume 24, page 74.

When the time comes that God sees in the midst of His people an increase of the female element, and the wicked ready to devour that element and appropriate it not in the way to "multiply and replenish the earth," but for the gratification of fleshly lust, and will actually take and employ hellish means to prevent the increase of their species, and show that they are not only beneath the brute, but beneath the vegetable creation, by refusing to bear fruit, thereby placing themselves in the category of the trees that are dried up, fit only to be cast into the fire, he can take measures to counteract this evil. And I say before God, angels and men, that every man and woman who joins in unholy wedlock for the gratification of fleshly lust, and studiously plan to frustrate the command of God in the multiplication of their species, show that they are unworthy - what shall I say? - unworthy to be classed among the honorable of the earth. And we have reason to believe that many have done, and are to-day, in the great cities of Babylon, taking steps to destroy their own offspring, committing infanticide and foeticide, all of whom, and their aiders and abettors, are ripening for the damnation of hell. And when God sees this damnable doctrine taught, and taught by such men as Mr. Henry Ward Beecher and other modern divines, falsely so called, who teach the world that it is a positive evil to multiply and increase so greatly in the land when such doctrine is taught by leading lights, and so readily accepted by the masses, the Lord says, the time has come for Him to take measures to counteract this great evil, by introducing laws in the midst of those who fear Him and live accordingly to the principles of life; men who are upright, honest and faithful, men who are willing to assume the responsibility; to take the daughters of Eve to wife and multiply and replenish the earth, for those men are unworthy of them. It is as Jesus said concerning the man who hid it in a napkin; he laid it carefully away, and by and by brought it out, saying here it is as I have received it, not having increased at all; in other words, we are just where we are when we started. Another one says I received two talents; and have increased to four, another says I received five talents, and now have ten: the master says to the one who hid his talent, who perhaps laid it carefully away and kept it nice, watching over it with the greatest care; or in other words, to him who did not multiply and increase, but on the contrary took pains to avoid doing so, "Take from him that which he seems to have and give to him that has ten; for he that has and improves upon that which he receives, shall receive more abundantly.

President John Taylor
Delivered at the General
Conference, April 9, 1882,
Journal of Discourses,
Volume 23, page 66.

It has become unfashionable in the east for women to have large families. I have heard remarks like this: one lady was asked, How many children have you? One or two. Is that all? What do you take me for, do you think I am a cow? Why no, you are not a cow, for cows do not murder their offspring. What a terrible tale is here told! What a horrible state of affairs is here exhibited. And I am told that some of these iniquities are being introduced here. I tell you in the name of God, if you do we will be after you. I am told of Physicians who are acting as they do in the east - as the butchers of infants. Let us look after these things, you Bishops, and if you do find it out, bring them up. As God lives we will not permit such infamies in our midst; you will not commence your fashionable murders here. And I will say now, Wo to this nation and to the nations of Europe, or any people among any nation, that sanctions these things. Have you not read that no "murderer hath eternal life abiding in him?" What shall be of those unnatural monsters, the slayers of their own offspring? This revolting, unnatural, damnable vice may be fashionable, but God will require this crime at their hands. Wo to men and to women that are licentious and corrupt, depraved and debauched, and especially wo, tenfold wo, to the murderers of helpless innocence. I tell you this in the name of the Lord. If these things are not stopped, God will arise and shake the nations of the earth and root out their infamies.

If we were guilty of those crimes so fashionable in the world whereby the increase of families is prevented, I do not suppose their would be one word said about our system of marriage; I have no idea there would be. But the fact that we do raise children, the fact our houses and settlements are full of healthy offspring, is a standing protest against the crimes of the age; it is a standing protest against those abominable practices that are destroying the foundation of many communities within the confines of the United States, and they are determined - those who are guilty of these things - that we shall not exist. The loudest outcry against us, and the most devoted efforts against us, come from the region where these dreadful practices prevail, where women murder their offspring before they are born, are guilty of this pre-natal murder, among the people of the United States who think themselves the most enlightened. Twenty five years ago when I was laboring in the ministry in that region I visited one of the towns, and the President of the branch of the Saints there, (an old resident, whose ancestors were among the first settlers of the town) told me his wife was continually jeered at - and this was twenty five years ago - by her associates, because she bore children, and bore them regularly - that she did not take the means to prevent the increase of her family! If I had not known him I could scarcely have believed it, it was too horrid. I have learned since, however, that that is a common practice in that region. The feature of that society that impresses most vividly a traveler from Utah is the fewness of children in what are called the best families. And yet it is from there that the principle outcry is raised against us, and the determination expressed to break up our families and to destroy us.
God has gathered a few people out from the nations of the earth, out of Babylon. But shall they partake of these influences? I say to you my sisters, you teach your daughters against this accursed practice, or they will go to hell, they will be damned, they will be murderers, and the blood of innocence will be found upon them. A man that would sanction such a thing in his family, or that would live with a woman guilty of such acts, shares in the crime of murder. I would no more perform the ordinance of laying on of hands on a woman who is guilty of that crime if I knew it, than I would put my hands on the head of a rattle snake. We must set our faces like flint against such acts. These dreadful practices are coming up like a tidal wave and washing against our walls; for there are women among us who secretly - so I am told, I know nothing about this personally, but I am told there are women among us who are instilling this murderous and accursed idea into the breasts of women and girls in our midst. Now just as sure as it is done, and people yield to it, so sure will they be damned, they will be damned with the deepest damnation; because it will be the damnation of shedding innocent blood, for which there is no forgiveness; and I would no more, as I say, administer to such women, baptize them, or perform any ordinance of the Gospel for them, than I would a reptile. They are outside the pale of salvation. They are in a position that nothing can be done for them. They cut themselves off by such acts from all hopes of salvation.
President George Q Cannon
JofD vol. 26 page 14

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: March 31st, 2017, 3:06 am
by Sasquatch
From the statements above, it seems pretty clear that abortion is the worst form of murder. Yet, there is this statement from Russel M Nelson that appears to contradict what Pres. Taylor and Cannon said.

"Is there any hope for the person who has participated in the act of abortion? Is there any hope for those who have so sinned and who now suffer heartbreak? The answer is yes! “As far as has been revealed, a person may repent and be forgiven for the sin of abortion.” 16 We know the Lord will help all who are truly repentant. 17"

I suppose a person's accountability for abortion, or any sin for that matter, depends on the amount of light they've received. In Alma, the Lamanites, who did not possess the gospel, were forgiven for their murders. What is normally an unforgivable crime may sometimes be forgiven to someone who commited it in ignorance. Consider two women, one raised by pro-choice individuals and taught that abortion is acceptable, and an LDS woman who knows how heinous the crime of abortion is. Which one would have the greater sin by receiving an abortion? Perhaps for some, it's a heinous though forgiveable sin, and for others it's simply murder, depending on their knowledge.

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: March 31st, 2017, 4:22 pm
by EmmaLee
I know many active, recommend holding LDS women who are "pro-choice". Some hold leadership positions in our ward/stake - and some are the wives of our ward/stake leaders. They are open and public about their stance on abortion - openly advocating for Planned Parenthood and for legislation to slaughter the unborn. One LDS woman from our ward helped hold the huge Planned Parenthood banner in our town's summer parade (she was the Primary president at the time). No one should ever assume that just because a woman is LDS (even active, recommend holding, in a leadership position LDS), that she is pro-life and is against abortion. I believe this is shameful, and I sometimes wonder what church I'm in on Sunday's. :(

Re: Forty-Four Years And Sixty Million Dead Babies

Posted: March 31st, 2017, 8:39 pm
by simpleton
EmmaLee wrote: March 31st, 2017, 4:22 pm I know many active, recommend holding LDS women who are "pro-choice". Some hold leadership positions in our ward/stake - and some are the wives of our ward/stake leaders. They are open and public about their stance on abortion - openly advocating for Planned Parenthood and for legislation to slaughter the unborn. One LDS woman from our ward helped hold the huge Planned Parenthood banner in our town's summer parade (she was the Primary president at the time). No one should ever assume that just because a woman is LDS (even active, recommend holding, in a leadership position LDS), that she is pro-life and is against abortion. I believe this is shameful, and I sometimes wonder what church I'm in on Sunday's. :(
Interesting how that has crept in the church to the point now of some "shouting it from the rooftops"...
No question every person has the God givin right to think and believe and practice their religion wherein it does not infringe upon the rights of others... But i do think that our brother's and sisters in heaven have the right to come to earth without being butchered in their mothers womb...But for every action there is a blessing or penalty. Some murder their offspring, don't even tell me that their "temple recommend" will enable them to cruise into and through the pearly gates ... if that is so then there is no ryme nor reason nor purpose to Mormonism...
Mercy cannot rob justice.