LDS Freedom Forum

The bottom line is, the gospel is meant for you, not your neighbor. The moment you begin to purposely seek to manipulate others'behavior in order to get them to do what you think is best, you have entered the devil's realm, even if it is merely withholding something you have the power to give. Go ahead and tell yourself it is for the other person's own good. Make sure you tell God as well, because if you don't now, you will be required to give an accounting at the last judgment. I would definitely plan on one of those listening moments after such a prayer. I'm certain he will understand you.

In the meantime, those who are interested in helping someone who has been unable thus far to acquire more secure transportation for herself and aren't too concerned whether you are enabling her, please help. If all you can do is pray, that would be appreciated.

Youcaring fundraiser created. https://www.youcaring.com/woman-in-need-495694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jezebel wrote:
I do not believe that we will be held accountable for enabling in the way you believe. Father gives breath to all of us, even those who commit the most atrocious sins, murderers, rapists, child molesters. The man committing torturous acts of sexual abuse on an innocent child is being given the power to do so by God. As I said, if we are to be like him, we must give freely as he does, even if people take our gifts and use them for ill as many do with God's gifts.

But if you know a person is a child molestor and you let that person watch your kids anyway then I think you're a terrible steward of your kids and you will be held somewhat accountable.

The same principle can be applied to giving gifts to a person when you know they can't properly use it. Give a suicidal person a loaded gun and you're going to be partially responsible for what happens. One persons blessing is another's curse. The gift giver has some stewardship. A lesson I've sadly learned myself.

shadow wrote:

Jezebel wrote:
I do not believe that we will be held accountable for enabling in the way you believe. Father gives breath to all of us, even those who commit the most atrocious sins, murderers, rapists, child molesters. The man committing torturous acts of sexual abuse on an innocent child is being given the power to do so by God. As I said, if we are to be like him, we must give freely as he does, even if people take our gifts and use them for ill as many do with God's gifts.

But if you know a person is a child molestor and you let that person watch your kids anyway then I think you're a terrible steward of your kids and you will be held somewhat accountable.

The same principle can be applied to giving gifts to a person when you know they can't properly use it. Give a suicidal person a loaded gun and you're going to be partially responsible for what happens. One persons blessing is another's curse. The gift giver has some stewardship. A lesson I've sadly learned myself.

Perhaps what you say is true. I have my personal reasons for exercising control and dominion over any of my little children who are in the process of running into a busy street. But we can't get around the fact that the Lord routinely sends his precious children directly into the homes of child molester parents every single day in the form of helpless infants. Maybe we would be wiser if we understood why.

Jezebel wrote: But we can't get around the fact that the Lord routinely sends his precious children directly into the homes of child molester parents every single day in the form of helpless infants. Maybe we would be wiser if we understood why.

Elizabeth wrote:

Jezebel wrote: But we can't get around the fact that the Lord routinely sends his precious children directly into the homes of child molester parents every single day in the form of helpless infants. Maybe we would be wiser if we understood why.

Agency....for better or worse!

He doesn't take away the consequences of mortal decisions....but does provide an eternal escape from judgement and everlasting punishment should we decide to repent.

I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.

Let's all send a little and help out, a kind thing to do, I should have something the second wednesday of the month, when my retirement check comes in.♡

Here is that site again:

https://www.youcaring.com/woman-in-need-495694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

♡

Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.

Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.

Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.

Be nice, shadow gives to the poor, he does it in the way his heart tells him. All good is good.♡

Robert Sinclair wrote:Be nice, shadow gives to the poor, he does it in the way his heart tells him. All good is good.♡

Thank you Robert!

Jezebel wrote:Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.

Seriously? I got edited. That's kind of pathetic.

Jezebel wrote:

Jezebel wrote:Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.

Seriously? I got edited. That's kind of pathetic.

Jules' post was edited and mine was deleted. Its the season of niceness and fairness. Glad to see yours was edited, it was kind of mean.

shadow wrote:

Jezebel wrote:

Jezebel wrote:Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.

Seriously? I got edited. That's kind of pathetic.

Jules' post was edited and mine was deleted. Its the season of niceness and fairness. Glad to see yours was edited, it was kind of mean.

It wasn't intended to be mean. But now that I realize it was just part of a series of edits, it makes more sense. If people can't handle a sigh and head shake, well.....

shadow wrote:

Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.

Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.

The very fact that there ARE poor among us. It's in the scriptures, and it's all around us. Jesus; King Benjamin; Joseph Smith - this is nothing new. Either is the pride and fear of the poor that keeps people from loving them.

She's a struggling single mom with health issues and an abusive ex for crying out loud, and yet she's vilified as if she is a criminal, or lazy, or ignorant, or whatever other excuse not to simply extend the pure love of Christ, that is pulled out of someone's back pocket.

Oh but wait - we know much better than that stupid, incompetent woman, and we certainly have the right to correct the Savior and other prophets who told us to provide the needs and wants of the poor, and let them keep on begging.

shadow wrote:

Jezebel wrote:

Jezebel wrote:Thanks, Jules; thanks, Robert.

Seriously? I got edited. That's kind of pathetic.

Jules' post was edited and mine was deleted. Its the season of niceness and fairness. Glad to see yours was edited, it was kind of mean.

I edited my own post.

Jules wrote:

shadow wrote:

Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.

Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.

The very fact that there ARE poor among us. It's in the scriptures, and it's all around us. Jesus; King Benjamin; Joseph Smith - this is nothing new. Either is the pride and fear of the poor that keeps people from loving them.

She's a struggling single mom with health issues and an abusive ex for crying out loud, and yet she's vilified as if she is a criminal, or lazy, or ignorant, or whatever other excuse not to simply extend the pure love of Christ, that is pulled out of someone's back pocket.

Oh but wait - we know much better than that stupid, incompetent woman, and we certainly have the right to correct the Savior and other prophets who told us to provide the needs and wants of the poor, and let them keep on begging.

Nobody said there weren't poor among us. The question is how best help them. Giving cars is not always the best way. I'd like to see an argument from you that says otherwise if you don't believe me. I've personally learned a lesson on this very issue. With a stewardship comes a responsibility.
As far as jezebels friend- nobody said to NOT give her a car. If you think otherwise please quote it. As far as her friends issues, Jezebel didn't offer what you posted. She said she was a divorced mother who does not have custody of her kids who is trying to jugle time between visiting them and seeing her boyfriend and that her car is in need of repairs. That's not a reason to deny or give her a car. But if someone had something to give, it would be under their stewardship on how to best help. Maybe giving a car is best, maybe it's not. I suggest getting an extra car then take the issue to God. If you feel prompted to give it to her then do it.
You read waaaay too much into other people's posts. Look at things as half full, not half empty

shadow wrote:

Jules wrote:

shadow wrote:

Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.

Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.

The very fact that there ARE poor among us. It's in the scriptures, and it's all around us. Jesus; King Benjamin; Joseph Smith - this is nothing new. Either is the pride and fear of the poor that keeps people from loving them.

She's a struggling single mom with health issues and an abusive ex for crying out loud, and yet she's vilified as if she is a criminal, or lazy, or ignorant, or whatever other excuse not to simply extend the pure love of Christ, that is pulled out of someone's back pocket.

Oh but wait - we know much better than that stupid, incompetent woman, and we certainly have the right to correct the Savior and other prophets who told us to provide the needs and wants of the poor, and let them keep on begging.

Nobody said there weren't poor among us. The question is how best help them. Giving cars is not always the best way. I'd like to see an argument from you that says otherwise if you don't believe me. I've personally learned a lesson on this very issue. With a stewardship comes a responsibility.
As far as jezebels friend- nobody said to NOT give her a car. If you think otherwise please quote it. As far as her friends issues, Jezebel didn't offer what you posted. She said she was a divorced mother who does not have custody of her kids who is trying to jugle time between visiting them and seeing her boyfriend and that her car is in need of repairs. That's not a reason to deny or give her a car. But if someone had something to give, it would be under their stewardship on how to best help. Maybe giving a car is best, maybe it's not. I suggest getting an extra car then take the issue to God. If you feel prompted to give it to her then do it.
You read waaaay too much into other people's posts. Look at things as half full, not half empty

Jules knows the woman too. She does have a lot of health problems as well. She's been in the ER several times in the past few months and is facing a few other serious problems at present. I'm not really good at making people look like a good bet for giving charity. Her bishop turned her down in the past as well as many other organizations. If you want to judge whether or not she is a good candidate to give a car to, I don't think anyone would fault you (speaking generally here) for moving along.

I think anyone who really knows me would tell you that you can trust that I am telling the truth. Beyond that, I haven't got much of a foundation to stand on when it comes to being trustworthy. I think I've convinced the majority of people that I'm stubbornly foolish. I think my friend needs a new car (because the old one is so broken down it wouldn't be worth fixing) and I don't see my friend being able to buy herself one any time soon (like before the old car dies). I might be wrong in that. Maybe she would get along just fine. Or maybe the Lord has some other plan for her. But anyway, I'm planning on buying her a car and feel free to pitch in if you like. I do know her better than anyone else here and no one else is going to be better situated to determine what she needs than me.

Shadow, I want to mention that my observations are just observations. I'm just saying what things look like to me. But of course, your journey is your journey, and I would never want to cause a person to falter in what they believe is right. I'm sure you haven't let what I've said change your mind in anything. ;) And I agree at least on one point. I think it's a good idea to pray about it.

Jules wrote:

shadow wrote:

Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.

Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.

The very fact that there ARE poor among us. It's in the scriptures, and it's all around us. Jesus; King Benjamin; Joseph Smith - this is nothing new. Either is the pride and fear of the poor that keeps people from loving them.

She's a struggling single mom with health issues and an abusive ex for crying out loud, and yet she's vilified as if she is a criminal, or lazy, or ignorant, or whatever other excuse not to simply extend the pure love of Christ, that is pulled out of someone's back pocket.

Oh but wait - we know much better than that stupid, incompetent woman, and we certainly have the right to correct the Savior and other prophets who told us to provide the needs and wants of the poor, and let them keep on begging.

This is all very manipulative. Throwing guilt on others who don't see it your way. Don't we get enough of that on Sunday's? The pure love of Christ does not equal our back pockets.

I've come to the conclusion that all true charity it local. It ought to be up close and personal, where local parties have local knowledge and act accordingly. Soliciting charity on anonymous internet forums and then berating those who question is damn sick. And the berating always seems to come from those who can't even help themselves. The locals who know her should take care of the issue with other locals who know her.

You work in your part of the vineyard and I'll work in mine. How's that for charity?

Good day.

Separatist wrote:

Jules wrote:

shadow wrote:

Jules wrote:I hope that somewhere among the pride and fear of the poor, there will be help for your friend. I wish I had an extra car for her or the money to get her one. I will check back here if I come across some options.

Where's some examples of this "pride and fear of the poor" you speak of.

The very fact that there ARE poor among us. It's in the scriptures, and it's all around us. Jesus; King Benjamin; Joseph Smith - this is nothing new. Either is the pride and fear of the poor that keeps people from loving them.

She's a struggling single mom with health issues and an abusive ex for crying out loud, and yet she's vilified as if she is a criminal, or lazy, or ignorant, or whatever other excuse not to simply extend the pure love of Christ, that is pulled out of someone's back pocket.

Oh but wait - we know much better than that stupid, incompetent woman, and we certainly have the right to correct the Savior and other prophets who told us to provide the needs and wants of the poor, and let them keep on begging.

This is all very manipulative. Throwing guilt on others who don't see it your way. Don't we get enough of that on Sunday's? The pure love of Christ does not equal our back pockets.

I've come to the conclusion that all true charity it local. It ought to be up close and personal, where local parties have local knowledge and act accordingly. Soliciting charity on anonymous internet forums and then berating those who question is damn sick. And the berating always seems to come from those who can't even help themselves. The locals who know her should take care of the issue with other locals who know her.

You work in your part of the vineyard and I'll work in mine. How's that for charity?

Good day.

I believe that giving should generally be kept close to home as well. I used to give to the beggars on the street whenever I saw one. The Spirit would warn me beforehand, tell me which lane to get in as I was driving or tell me to get cash out of my wallet and get it ready, and sure enough, I would see someone standing on a corner with a cardboard sign.

There came a time, though, when I wasn't able to give to the people on the corners anymore and every time I passed them up, I felt sorrow in my heart. One day, as I was passing a person with a sign, the Spirit impressed upon me that those people wouldn't be there if they had family and friends who were looking out for them. After that, I began to focus on doing whatever I could for those I love who needed help, so they never felt like they would have to stand on a corner with a sign. When I pass the people with signs, I send them love and truly say in my heart that I would give if I could, but I can't. I can't because the people I know come first and I just don't have the resources to help everyone. I still give if the Spirit tells me to, or if someone asks me directly themselves. Otherwise, I accept peace knowing that I am doing my best and am not passing anyone up out of pride or selfishness.

True charity is the pure love of Christ. It isn't encased by boundaries of knowing someone or whether or not they live near you. Jesus loves everyone. I believe we can feel love for everyone ourselves. But I do believe that those under our stewardship need to come first when it comes to giving.

There are those who can afford to look outside their immediate circles to give. Additionally, there are those on this forum I feel connected to, who are like family to me. I know people on here have given generously in the past. I hope a few feel inclined to give again. There are so many needs in the world and we can't do much alone. But if we can work together, we could do some great things.

Jezebel wrote:I have a friend in need of a car. I am trying to raise enough to cover a running car, the registration, and 6 months worth of insurance. If you can donate money or a car, please let me know. I live in Utah County.

To donate by card: https://www.youcaring.com/woman-in-need-495694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you would like to donate via paypal, you can send it to: [email protected]. (Please include a note stating the purpose)

Or you can send a donation to:
1274 North State Street #5
Orem, UT 84057

Please note that I have updated the OP with additional donation information.

How are things going?♡

Nothing is happening so far....

Thought I would bring this up again, best wishes for your friend to get all the help she needs both temporal and spiritual.♡