Ron Paul runs - Ron Paul Wins!

[LoveIsTruth]

My proof is The Fundamental Principles of Liberty. You CANNOT disprove them anymore than you can unseat God. They are as Eternal as God himself.

So gays in the military is as eternal as God???? GoProud!

Really? You are a liar, and you know it. Either that or you just can't read. May be it is a bit of both. A liar who cannot read.

Its like you stating your mantra on property rights and then turning around and saying its okay to steal intellectual property....

Yep, definitely a liar! Please show me where I have said that, or accept the fact that you are a liar.

You want principles....what's the 1st great commandment and how does libertarianism fit into that???

The Fundamental Principles of Liberty I advocate are in perfect harmony with this and all other commandments, including "Thou shall not steal," which you statists have a real problem with.

[Jason]

My proof is The Fundamental Principles of Liberty. You CANNOT disprove them anymore than you can unseat God. They are as Eternal as God himself.

So gays in the military is as eternal as God???? GoProud!

Really? You are a liar, and you know it. Either that or you just can't read. May be it is a bit of both. A liar who cannot read.

Its like you stating your mantra on property rights and then turning around and saying its okay to steal intellectual property....

Yep, definitely a liar! Please show me where I have said that, or accept the fact that you are a liar.

You want principles....what's the 1st great commandment and how does libertarianism fit into that???

The Fundamental Principles of Liberty I advocate are in perfect harmony with this and all other commandments, including "Thou shall not steal," which you statists have a real problem with.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... ty#p184101" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[LoveIsTruth]

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... ty#p184101

And...? What exactly does that prove?

[Jason]

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... ty#p184101

And...? What exactly does that prove?

Whole thread where you repeatedly rationalize the theft of intellectual property....

[LoveIsTruth]

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... ty#p184101

And...? What exactly does that prove?

Whole thread where you repeatedly rationalize the theft of intellectual property....

Prove it. Where did I do that? In fact I said that using another's work without proper compensation was immoral. So I said exactly the opposite of what you are accusing me of!

[Jason]

Prove it. Where did I do that? In fact I said that using another's work without proper compensation was immoral. So I said exactly the opposite of what you are accusing me of!

....yeah you said this -

2) I never said that creator of information should have no compensation. I said that there are proper and improper ways to achieve that compensation. Again, the proper way, consistent with fundamental principles of liberty and with scripture is: 1) Use the information yourself; 2) Secure contract of first use; 3) ask for donations. The improper way is to use force upon your neighbor.

...and I said this -

How exactly can you accomplish #3 when you fail at #2?

If no one respects IP then you go back to the dark ages because you can't adequately secure contract of first use because you can't get adequately compensated for it......which means you don't eat and your family doesn't eat.....which means you work on something else that will put food on the table.....which means the IP never gets invented.....which means nobody benefits from it!

Put a price on the 1st music cd sale if that buyer then makes a copy and distributes to the world for free.....and then try to get someone to purchase that cd for that price!

....again I reiterate to your regurgitation.....pie in the sky until it comes to application (especially in a wicked society). But you'll continue to insist that these hypothesis' of yours are fundamental principles (although never actually applied successfully) and that they automatically equate to FREEDOM and LIBERTY no matter what the real implications are.....which boils down to the similitude of.....a couple of guys asking "how is this teaching being received?"...."very well....EXCEPT...this man does not believe what is being taught"....oh yeah...received very well indeed.

Sort of like recommending privatizing the military, education, TSA, FAA, etc etc etc (the election system for government ???)....all while spouting off that we need to get rid of the "privatized" (Federal Reserve and fractional private banking) money creation system....

....and you respond to such criticism with more pie-

But it will cultivate morals much better than a government monopoly....In a free market people will put an end to it quick. (New York minute.)

...but fail to address actual history...

Agree to disagree with your New York minute....please look up the history of Private military companies (PMCs)/ Private Security Companies (PSCs) like DynCorp - now owned by Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC), Blackwater/Xe/Academi, Halliburton, L3 via subsidiary MPRI, BAE Systems - part owned by Carlyle Group which was/is Bush & Bin Laden investment firm, Vinnell - now owned by Northrop but before that by TRW Systems and before that by the Carlyle Group, Executive Outcomes part of the South African-based holding company Strategic Resource Corporation, Sandline International and Rubicon International Services now part of Aegis Defence Services....

...to each their own...we definitely have different definitions of "theft" as well as "liberty" and "freedom". Cue rampant venomous response of "liar" "statist" "grow up" "blind" "weakness" "damned" "tyrant" etc etc etc...

Agree to disagree!!!

Time will tell the story on how this -
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 40#p265538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...plays out! For better or worse....

[SempiternalHarbinger]

Dang Jason, You stole all my thunder. Haven't been on the forum this week. Now that I have some time I see you covered all the nonsense I was expecting. And Loveistruth, you really need to stop acting as if all the founding fathers agree with you and Ron Paul. As if Ron Paul belongs in that group. Especially Jefferson. I would assume he would get a good laugh at Ron Paul's views on economics and liberty.

[Juliette]

Dang Jason, You stole all my thunder. Haven't been on the forum this week. Now that I have some time I see you covered all the nonsense I was expecting. And Loveistruth, you really need to stop acting as if all the founding fathers agree with you and Ron Paul. As if Ron Paul belongs in that group. Especially Jefferson. I would assume he would get a good laugh at Ron Paul's views on economics and liberty.

Glad you are back Semp! We need you here....The party is more fun!! :ymparty:

[liberty_belle]

Ron Paul: Not it in it for power

Sorry, I cant seem to get the whole embed code for some reason when I click on the clip

Face the Nation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXwoWdi ... r_embedded

[LoveIsTruth]

And Loveistruth, you really need to stop acting as if all the founding fathers agree with you and Ron Paul. As if Ron Paul belongs in that group. Especially Jefferson. I would assume he would get a good laugh at Ron Paul's views on economics and liberty.

Jefferson, Washington, Madison, Adams, Joseph Smith, and Ezra T. Benson, all agreed with Ron Paul on sound, 100% commodity based money.


But I don't really care for names. I care for Eternal and Fundamental Principles of Liberty, and these principles also agree with Ron Paul on the issue, which means God agrees with Ron Paul on the issue of sound money, and that matters to me (maybe not to you).

[Jason]

Ron Paul: Not it in it for power

Sorry, I cant seem to get the whole embed code for some reason when I click on the clip

Face the Nation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXwoWdi ... r_embedded

Money????

[LoveIsTruth]

Ron Paul: Not it in it for power

Sorry, I cant seem to get the whole embed code for some reason when I click on the clip

Face the Nation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXwoWdi ... r_embedded

Money????

Idiot????


(Ron Paul has been returning his lucrative Congressional pension, as well as his unused office expense account, to the US treasury for over 30 years. He has never taken a government-paid junket, or voted to raise congressional pay.

Of course he is in it for money!)

[liberty_belle]

Ron Paul: Not it in it for power

Sorry, I cant seem to get the whole embed code for some reason when I click on the clip

Face the Nation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXwoWdi ... r_embedded

Money????

Jason, try as you might, you cannot make Ron Paul a bad guy. I think Loveistruth pretty much summed it all up. I get the feeling you would have been one of those that tried to make Joseph Smith out to be an insider because he descend from one of the 13 bloodlines and was a Freemason.....

....moving along, there is nothing to see here

[LoveIsTruth]

pie in the sky

What you call "pie in the sky" is the truth as it exists in God, and until you accept it you will forever remain a slave and be forced to pay the price of your own enslavement.

[Jason]

Ron Paul: Not it in it for power

Money????

Idiot????


(Ron Paul has been returning his lucrative Congressional pension, as well as his unused office expense account, to the US treasury for over 30 years. He has never taken a government-paid junket, or voted to raise congressional pay.

Of course he is in it for money!)

Lucrative Congressional pension???? Useful idiot....wages are chump change when you can trade on the stock market with insider information (as in knowing what and where government funds will be spent - as well as being in on the decisions).....legally!!!

The pension amount is determined by a formula that takes into account the years served and the average pay for the top three years in terms of payment. In 2002, the average pension payment ranged from $41,000 to $55,000. For example, a member of Congress who worked for 22 years and had a top three-year average salary of $153,900 would be eligible for a pension payment of $84,645 per year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_pension" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...that said to Ron Paul's credit he's been vocal about putting an end to the legal insider trading (of course that's after it breaks mainstream media and has been going on for decades with very little to anything said about it)...

*****Why Mainstream Media Wants The Congressional Insider Trading Story To Die*****
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2011/11/w ... die-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here at Total Return, we’ve looked at hundreds of the annual financial-disclosure forms in which the members of Congress reveal their assets and trades – and we’ve never seen a more unorthodox portfolio than Ron Paul’s. (In fact, The Wall Street Journal revealed problematic trading in Congress more than a year and a half before the “60 Minutes” episode that recently raised a ruckus over the same topic, but that’s another matter.)

According to data available through his 2010 “Form A” financial disclosure statement, filed last May, Rep. Paul’s portfolio is valued between $2.44 million and $5.46 million. (Congressional disclosures are given in ranges, not precise amounts.)

Most members of Congress, like many Americans, hold some real estate, a few bonds or bond mutual funds, some individual stocks and a bundle of stock funds. Give or take a few percentage points, a typical Congressional portfolio might have 10% in cash, 10% in bonds or bond funds, 20% in real estate, and 60% in stocks or stock funds.

But Ron Paul’s portfolio isn’t merely different. It’s shockingly different.

Yes, about 21% of Rep. Paul’s holdings are in real estate and roughly 14% in cash. But he owns no bonds or bond funds and has only 0.1% in stock funds. Furthermore, the stock funds that Rep. Paul does own are all “short,” or make bets against, U.S. stocks. One is a “double inverse” fund that, on a daily basis, goes up twice as much as its stock benchmark goes down.

The remainder of Rep. Paul’s portfolio – fully 64% of his assets – is entirely in gold and silver mining stocks. He owns no Apple, no ExxonMobil, no Procter & Gamble, no General Electric, no Johnson & Johnson, not even a diversified mutual fund that holds a broad basket of stocks. Rep. Paul doesn’t own stock in any major companies at all except big precious-metals stocks like Barrick Gold, Goldcorp and Newmont Mining.

Rep. Paul also owns 23 other miners – many of them smaller, Canadian-based “juniors” whose stocks are highly risky. Ten of these stocks have total market valuations of less than $500 million, a common definition of a “microcap” stock. Mr. Paul has between $100,010 and $326,000 (roughly 5% of his assets) invested in these tiny, extremely volatile stocks.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... en&strip=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Over the last few weeks, we’ve visited Congressman Ron Paul’s investment portfolio more than once.

According to his 2010 financial-disclosure form, the most recent one available, the Republican presidential candidate has most of his investments in the stock of gold-mining companies—in addition to other holdings in real estate, cash and “short” funds that rise in value as stock prices fall.

But the most peculiar thing might be what we didn’t find listed: holdings of gold bullion or coins. That would seem to contrast with Rep. Paul’s public statements on his investment strategy.

Rep. Paul’s advocacy of holding gold is well-documented, and it wouldn’t surprise anyone if he held a significant investment in the physical stuff.

If he does have gold, he’s not listing it on his financial-disclosure forms, which members of congress must file annually. It could be a simple oversight, or Rep. Paul might have indeed unloaded his entire bullion holding just in time to miss a huge runup in gold. Or, he might just think that he doesn’t have to disclose it. A spokeswoman for Rep. Paul didn’t respond to several requests seeking comment.

Could he have sold them all? Sure. But even though Rep. Paul stopped reporting coin holdings in 2002, he continued to say he owned them in interviews. In an interview with Fox Business Network in 2010, for example, he had this exchange at about the 1:35 mark:

Host: Congressman, do you buy the coins or do you invest in gold-mining shares or do you put your money into a gold mutual fund? How do you do it?

Paul: I over the years have bought coins because I like to, you know, have possession, but no, I’ll buy some gold shares too. Now that’s closer to an investment, because you’re dealing with management and, you know, dealing with…maybe they hit a strike. So that’s an investment and you have to evaluate it. But coins and buying gold … I see it as not so much buying gold and betting on the price of gold going up but betting on our government ruining the value of our money.

That interview would seem to suggest that he still owned and bought coins in 2010.

Experts we spoke to said that it was their understanding that members of congress have to disclose gold and coin holdings.

Incidentally, if Rep. Paul had had gold holdings worth $100,000 at the end of 2002, when gold traded at around $350 per ounce, it’d be worth around $476,000 now. An investment toward the upper end of the reporting range ($250,000) would be worth almost $1.2 million.

http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2012/0 ... auls-gold/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Records Show Ron Paul Trips Paid Twice
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_90/Re ... 118-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jason]

Ron Paul: Not it in it for power

Sorry, I cant seem to get the whole embed code for some reason when I click on the clip

Face the Nation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXwoWdi ... r_embedded

Money????

Jason, try as you might, you cannot make Ron Paul a bad guy. I think Loveistruth pretty much summed it all up. I get the feeling you would have been one of those that tried to make Joseph Smith out to be an insider because he descend from one of the 13 bloodlines and was a Freemason.....

....moving along, there is nothing to see here

LOL....what a crock of crap! Because I've gotten serious about vetting Ron Paul....of which 95% of the information I've provided has yet to be contested....now suddenly I'm against Joseph Smith???

Might check that view in the mirror.....

In the mean time I ask just one question - Who's he lying to??? You....or the Peter Thiel's, Grover Norquist's, and Lewis Lehrman's of the world???

[Fairminded]

LOL....what a crock of crap! Because I've gotten serious about vetting Ron Paul....of which 95% of the information I've provided has yet to be contested....now suddenly I'm against Joseph Smith???

Might check that view in the mirror.....

In the mean time I ask just one question - Who's he lying to??? You....or the Peter Thiel's, Grover Norquist's, and Lewis Lehrman's of the world???

I respect your opinions as a poster, Jason. I've enjoyed your Blipits and other contributions to the forum, and the research you do to support them. I trust your sincerity and have no reason to doubt the information you provide (beyond that most information these days is slanted one way or another).

That said, I'm a bit surprised by the vehemence with which you're going after Ron Paul. It seems kind of out of the blue, since before a couple weeks ago you didn't really have much to say one way or another. I've found that such hostility usually comes from an emotional response, not a reasoned position. Is there some way Ron Paul offended you that caused this crusade, or something specific you found out that turned you off so violently?

[Jason]

LOL....what a crock of crap! Because I've gotten serious about vetting Ron Paul....of which 95% of the information I've provided has yet to be contested....now suddenly I'm against Joseph Smith???

Might check that view in the mirror.....

In the mean time I ask just one question - Who's he lying to??? You....or the Peter Thiel's, Grover Norquist's, and Lewis Lehrman's of the world???

I respect your opinions as a poster, Jason. I've enjoyed your Blipits and other contributions to the forum, and the research you do to support them. I trust your sincerity and have no reason to doubt the information you provide (beyond that most information these days is slanted one way or another).

That said, I'm a bit surprised by the vehemence with which you're going after Ron Paul. It seems kind of out of the blue, since before a couple weeks ago you didn't really have much to say one way or another. I've found that such hostility usually comes from an emotional response, not a reasoned position. Is there some way Ron Paul offended you that caused this crusade, or something specific you found out that turned you off so violently?

Perhaps I'm out of line....but yes I'm extremely disappointed in Ron Paul based on the information I have discovered. I had him on a pedestal and put hard earned money behind him last go around....as well as touting him to just about everyone I knew for many years....from 2006/2007 up until a couple weeks ago (still thought he was the best option there despite some minor flaws).

Prior to a couple weeks ago I had a few minor issues that irritated me like the way the excess campaign funds from the last go-around were spent....and how all that was handled (talk within his group of creating a for-profit publishing company with some of the funds a month or two prior to him backing out of the race). Anyways for the most part it was minor irritations. Then Semp provided some thoughts and made some statements so I decided to do a deep dive and either prove him wrong or right. Turns out he was right and called it 100% to the best of my knowledge thus far.

As far as specifics to my change of heart/discussion/research....I think it basically comes down to a summary perspective (based on all of the research)...and associated realization....that not only was his libertarian theories and associated agenda not what I had previously thought (a big banker funded fraud)....but if actually implemented would be the final take over shot by the globalists. He would destroy this country right down to the foundation. So yeah now I have serious questions about how much he's bought off and how insidious it gets. At least with Obama (despite a few clouds over his history) in a couple google runs you pretty much knew his CIA background story with mentors like Frank Davis - "Sex Rebel: Black". Ron Paul is at a whole different level. Either he is very naive and well intentioned...or insidious to a whole new dimension. To each their own on judgement....my conspiratorial hat may be on a little too tight...

[Fairminded]

A bit discouraging if he really does have bad intentions. A lot of people call him the "last hope for America". If he's gone I guess that's that for the country.

Of course, I believe the MDGs have such total control at this point that any attempts to change things within the system would ultimately be manipulated to their advantage.

[Juliette]

Prove it. Where did I do that? In fact I said that using another's work without proper compensation was immoral. So I said exactly the opposite of what you are accusing me of!

....yeah you said this -

2) I never said that creator of information should have no compensation. I said that there are proper and improper ways to achieve that compensation. Again, the proper way, consistent with fundamental principles of liberty and with scripture is: 1) Use the information yourself; 2) Secure contract of first use; 3) ask for donations. The improper way is to use force upon your neighbor.

...and I said this -

How exactly can you accomplish #3 when you fail at #2?



If no one respects IP then you go back to the dark ages because you can't adequately secure contract of first use because you can't get adequately compensated for it......which means you don't eat and your family doesn't eat.....which means you work on something else that will put food on the table.....which means the IP never gets invented.....which means nobody benefits from it!

Put a price on the 1st music cd sale if that buyer then makes a copy and distributes to the world for free.....and then try to get someone to purchase that cd for that price!

....again I reiterate to your regurgitation.....pie in the sky until it comes to application (especially in a wicked society). But you'll continue to insist that these hypothesis' of yours are fundamental principles (although never actually applied successfully) and that they automatically equate to FREEDOM and LIBERTY no matter what the real implications are.....which boils down to the similitude of.....a couple of guys asking "how is this teaching being received?"...."very well....EXCEPT...this man does not believe what is being taught"....oh yeah...received very well indeed.

Sort of like recommending privatizing the military, education, TSA, FAA, etc etc etc (the election system for government ???)....all while spouting off that we need to get rid of the "privatized" (Federal Reserve and fractional private banking) money creation system....

....and you respond to such criticism with more pie-

But it will cultivate morals much better than a government monopoly....In a free market people will put an end to it quick. (New York minute.)

...but fail to address actual history...

Agree to disagree with your New York minute....please look up the history of Private military companies (PMCs)/ Private Security Companies (PSCs) like DynCorp - now owned by Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC), Blackwater/Xe/Academi, Halliburton, L3 via subsidiary MPRI, BAE Systems - part owned by Carlyle Group which was/is Bush & Bin Laden investment firm, Vinnell - now owned by Northrop but before that by TRW Systems and before that by the Carlyle Group, Executive Outcomes part of the South African-based holding company Strategic Resource Corporation, Sandline International and Rubicon International Services now part of Aegis Defence Services....

...to each their own...we definitely have different definitions of "theft" as well as "liberty" and "freedom". Cue rampant venomous response of "liar" "statist" "grow up" "blind" "weakness" "damned" "tyrant" etc etc etc...

Agree to disagree!!!

Time will tell the story on how this -
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 40#p265538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...plays out! For better or worse....

Jason, you always say what I wish I could! :ymapplause:

[Juliette]

Oops! Don't know how I do this.

[Juliette]

LOL....what a crock of crap! Because I've gotten serious about vetting Ron Paul....of which 95% of the information I've provided has yet to be contested....now suddenly I'm against Joseph Smith???

Might check that view in the mirror.....

In the mean time I ask just one question - Who's he lying to??? You....or the Peter Thiel's, Grover Norquist's, and Lewis Lehrman's of the world???

I respect your opinions as a poster, Jason. I've enjoyed your Blipits and other contributions to the forum, and the research you do to support them. I trust your sincerity and have no reason to doubt the information you provide (beyond that most information these days is slanted one way or another).

Fairminded, Just adding my 2 cents worth. I think Jason conducts himself very well. He states the facts and doesn't play into the name calling. I don't think it would be pretty if I was called a "Liar" etc. There is no need for that.

That said, I'm a bit surprised by the vehemence with which you're going after Ron Paul. It seems kind of out of the blue, since before a couple weeks ago you didn't really have much to say one way or another. I've found that such hostility usually comes from an emotional response, not a reasoned position. Is there some way Ron Paul offended you that caused this crusade, or something specific you found out that turned you off so violently?

Fairminded, just adding my 2 cents worth. I think Jason has conducted himself very well. It wouldn't be pretty if I were called the names he has been called. "Liar" etc. Jason states the facts. love is the one being irrational. I think its because Jason always proves him wrong. Them temper overrides facts. Just once, I would like to see a Ron Paul follower tell another one, to calm down. Instead of asking Jason to calm down. I just telling it the way I see it.

[Juliette]

LOL....what a crock of crap! Because I've gotten serious about vetting Ron Paul....of which 95% of the information I've provided has yet to be contested....now suddenly I'm against Joseph Smith???

Might check that view in the mirror.....

In the mean time I ask just one question - Who's he lying to??? You....or the Peter Thiel's, Grover Norquist's, and Lewis Lehrman's of the world???

I respect your opinions as a poster, Jason. I've enjoyed your Blipits and other contributions to the forum, and the research you do to support them. I trust your sincerity and have no reason to doubt the information you provide (beyond that most information these days is slanted one way or another).

Fairminded, Just adding my 2 cents worth. I think Jason conducts himself very well. He states the facts and doesn't play into the name calling. I don't think it would be pretty if I was called a "Liar" etc. There is no need for that.

That said, I'm a bit surprised by the vehemence with which you're going after Ron Paul. It seems kind of out of the blue, since before a couple weeks ago you didn't really have much to say one way or another. I've found that such hostility usually comes from an emotional response, not a reasoned position. Is there some way Ron Paul offended you that caused this crusade, or something specific you found out that turned you off so violently?

I am picturing a crock of crap! Ewwwwww! Good description Jason!

[SempiternalHarbinger]

LOL....what a crock of crap! Because I've gotten serious about vetting Ron Paul....of which 95% of the information I've provided has yet to be contested....now suddenly I'm against Joseph Smith???

Might check that view in the mirror.....

In the mean time I ask just one question - Who's he lying to??? You....or the Peter Thiel's, Grover Norquist's, and Lewis Lehrman's of the world???

I respect your opinions as a poster, Jason. I've enjoyed your Blipits and other contributions to the forum, and the research you do to support them. I trust your sincerity and have no reason to doubt the information you provide (beyond that most information these days is slanted one way or another).

That said, I'm a bit surprised by the vehemence with which you're going after Ron Paul. It seems kind of out of the blue, since before a couple weeks ago you didn't really have much to say one way or another. I've found that such hostility usually comes from an emotional response, not a reasoned position. Is there some way Ron Paul offended you that caused this crusade, or something specific you found out that turned you off so violently?

Perhaps I'm out of line....but yes I'm extremely disappointed in Ron Paul based on the information I have discovered. I had him on a pedestal and put hard earned money behind him last go around....as well as touting him to just about everyone I knew for many years....from 2006/2007 up until a couple weeks ago (still thought he was the best option there despite some minor flaws).

Prior to a couple weeks ago I had a few minor issues that irritated me like the way the excess campaign funds from the last go-around were spent....and how all that was handled (talk within his group of creating a for-profit publishing company with some of the funds a month or two prior to him backing out of the race). Anyways for the most part it was minor irritations. Then Semp provided some thoughts and made some statements so I decided to do a deep dive and either prove him wrong or right. Turns out he was right and called it 100% to the best of my knowledge thus far.

As far as specifics to my change of heart/discussion/research....I think it basically comes down to a summary perspective (based on all of the research)...and associated realization....that not only was his libertarian theories and associated agenda not what I had previously thought (a big banker funded fraud)....but if actually implemented would be the final take over shot by the globalists. He would destroy this country right down to the foundation. So yeah now I have serious questions about how much he's bought off and how insidious it gets. At least with Obama (despite a few clouds over his history) in a couple google runs you pretty much knew his CIA background story with mentors like Frank Davis - "Sex Rebel: Black". Ron Paul is at a whole different level. Either he is very naive and well intentioned...or insidious to a whole new dimension. To each their own on judgement....my conspiratorial hat may be on a little too tight...

Thanks Jason! And No, you are not out of line. Truth cuts it's own way and is never popular. And it's a big-time low blow to equate your own research and findings to that you would have been one of those that tried to make Joseph Smith out to be an insider because he descend from one of the 13 bloodlines and was a Freemason. This is not cool in any way. What's ironic is some have said you have gone to far in defending Joseph Smith's good name. (Polygamy) If anything, I think Fairminded should point that finger else where.

A bit discouraging if he really does have bad intentions. A lot of people call him the "last hope for America". If he's gone I guess that's that for the country.

A lot of people call him the "last hope for America"? Well, there are no political saviors. If he's gone I guess that's that for the country? Not so wise to put your trust in the arm of flesh. Repentance and forgiveness is the last hope for America. And the only one who will be doing any saving is our Savior who saves the righteous from the judgments of the wicked. Our awful situation will lead to the point where we literally need to be saved!!

Of course, I believe the MDGs have such total control at this point that any attempts to change things within the system would ultimately be manipulated to their advantage.

Anyone who is a real threat and who actually attempts at exposing Satan's empire for what it really is, is put in a mental hospital, blackmailed, threatened, or killed. It is my belief that if Ron Paul was any threat whatsoever the is no way in hell he would be allowed to remain in House for the past 35 years. I have said it sense the day I showed up here that Ron Paul's audit is a lifetime pursuit of nothingness. A road that has lead to nowhere. Ron Paul's audit the fed has in no way been any threat to the establishment. And speaking of audit, why is there any need for an audit? The fed is un-constitutional! Why is he not demanding we uphold the constitution? Because an audit will lead to this? Screw an audit, let's follow the laws of the land. But that would require standing up to Satan's financial empire. Same thing with 9/11. It's almost funny to see loveistruth badmouthing, calling Bluemoon every name in the book for not believing 9/11 but when the one person who actually could do something doesn't is continually praised and compared with Jefferson. Same thing with Obama care.... Ron Paul has been very outspoken how bad Obama care is and how it will bankrupt us. But if he is so against it, and if it is so un-constitutional why is he not standing up like he has sworn an oath to do and demand the house republicans who have the power and end it today? The House republicans don't need one democrat vote to end Obama Care and Ron Paul is silent on the only way to end it. Silence is all I am hearing..... Ron Paul says Obama is constitutionally eligible, and is a constitutional expert. both lies. Obama is a communist radical who has deceived the American people all the way to White house. Every single thing Obama has signed since his inauguration is invalid. He does not have the authority. He is NOT eligible for president. And the highest court of the land, the media, ALL our representatives are all deeply involved in this scam. Maybe one of the great lies ever perpetrated on the American people. And Ron Paul has nothing to say. We want to change things we need to start demanding we uphold the rule of Law. Which Ron Paul is not doing. Unless we overturn everyone of Obama signatures America is gone. And the only way to do that is upholding the constitution and demand Obama is escorted out of the white house today and all these lies brought to light than.... But as Ron Paul has already said, "I don't want to be laughed out of congress." Anyone who stands up for the truth knows the truth is always mocked. And if being laughed at is more concern than upholding their oath to God to defend, protect, preserve the constitution against all enemies than what's the point in voting for him or putting all your trust in him. And that’s not even touching on his Austrian economics or his libertarian beliefs or his “perfect constitutional voting record" so many have been led to believe he has.

When one truly understands our awful situation than they will realize there are no political saviors. And we have been sold out by all our representatives.

“There is not one political candidate on the horizon who dares to tell the whole truth! Not one! Because the truth is WORK or perish! And that is not a very inviting campaign promise.” Ezra Taft Benson

IMO Ron Paul is not the exception. We need the whole truth! No one can ever be expected to make the correct choices if they don't have the correct history and facts.

[HeirofNumenor]

All I can say (being on an iPhone) is that all the talk of freedom and liberty is wonderful and brings warm fuzzies, but we must also remember The founding father's saying about The Constitution being no worth for a people who are universally corrupt.

Track 2 baby. Learn how try each other justly & fairly in our dealings with our fellow man, while also learn how to rebuild a honest and free society after the Cleansing.