BodyTalk therapy questions

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deepdoctrine
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BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by deepdoctrine »

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts were on Body Talk Therapy. From what I understand, it is fairly new so I can't find a whole lot of information out there about it. Here is my beef:

I feel like I am somewhat of a spiritual person (in tune for the most part). I have been struggling with a physical pain for a long time. There is a lady in my ward who claims BodyTalk Therapy will help me get better. I have told her that I am a skeptic and don't believe any of that. Essentially a session involves going in and laying on a table while the practitioner holds your arm and talks (silently) to your body. After a series of questions the practitioner tells your body how to heal (your body answers yes or no by means of the practitioner moving your arm) and then helps direct body electrical messages. I am told that BodyTalk is a simple and effective holistic therapy that allows your body's energy systems to be re-synchronized so they can operate as nature intended.

I continue to tell this person that I don't think I believe this and she is very gracious and tells me it is ok to have healthy skepticism. I can't help but think this sounds (not exactly, but similar) a bit like Astral Projection or Remote Viewing techniques. This practitioner is a 100% LDS practicing saint and says she has been blessed with this bodytalk ability. She has a testimony and has even said her prayers have been answered in pursuing this. I am just still not getting warm & fuzzies and wondering if anyone else has heard about it or has thoughts....

DeepDoc

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Original_Intent
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

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Just use prayerful discernment. My wife and I were involved in a martial art that tauch a lot about Ki (Chi in some styles). This was a style that we had a combined 25 years experience with and we were learning advanced stuff such as putting ki shields on our bodies and so forth. Although it felt fine to both of us, I felt like I need to speak to my bishop about it, he talked to me about what we did with it and he said he felt like it was completely fine. That it was the type of thing that could be used for good or evil so it was a neutral tool that was either good or bad based on how it was used. I had a couple of other bishop's that I spoke with repeat almost exactly the same thing. One went so far as to say he personally believed that we were exercising faith and calling upon heavenly assistance to protect us! (Ki is basically our bodies energy field that The Force in Star Wars was based on.)

And please be careful not to scoff at such things I was a skeptic once too! But have seen and experienced too much to scoff any more. Anyway back to your question....

There was a woman in a martial arts class that I was an assistant instructor in. The instructor was an incredibly spiritual and all around great guy. There was a woman in the class that practiced "Reiki". (Translates as spirit ki). She claimed to be able to heal with it and so forth, and occasionally she would make the claim that use of reiki was how Jesus healed. She was also a member of the church, btw.

I had very bad feelings about it, the spirit was definitely strongly warning me that this was not a path to get involved with. I didn't and neither did my sensei. In a very short time the woman lost all mental stability and I believe is now in a mental institution, lost her children, etc.

Then had another woman in our class whose mother did aromatherapy. It seemed pretty innocent and she claimed it could help you overcome personal issues, etc. However, as I learned more and more about the techniques, I started to get concerns that it was sounding a lot like Reiki. However, in this case my sensei went and he said that it was a great experience. After prayerfully considering it I also decided to go "just once" to see what it was like. It was a great experience and very spiritual but I also felt like it was something that going repeatedly could create a "spiritual crutch" for ME and that continuing to go would be a bad idea (but only because it would be a personal bad choice, not necesarrily bad for others).

I hope this is helpful to you. Such things you want to be very careful about and ask for spiritual guidance from Heavenly Father. There are some great things out there, but danger also.

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Original_Intent
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

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After re-reading your post I will say it does not sound like astral projection - it sounds like it is chakra related which my martial arts experience gave me quite a bit of insight. It sounds like a good thing to me, but you still need to go on your judgement of the individual and what the spirit tells you.

I have seen some interesting things. Even before my martial arts experience I from time to time have been able to see a "shimmer" above people's heads, usually in the temple or in testimony meeting. It is not a light, it looks more like heat haze (the air looks shimmery/wavy) I always took that to mean that they were strongly feeling the spirit. Then my first martial arts master was demonstrating ki one time (actually over the years he had done numerous amazing things that I only felt) but this particular time he was flowing ki into a students injured shoulder - on the other side of the students shoulder I saw the same "wavy air" extending for about 10 feet! This led me to believe that either the bishop who said we were calling for (and receiving) spiritual aid was right, OR that there was more going on in the temple and in testimony meetings that I had previously comprehended. This was over ten years ago and I am still not sure which.

It sounds like this lady believes you have a blocked chakra - this can disrupt the energy flows in your body and be painful. All that acupuncture does is by inserting the needles it can relieve that pressure and help the ki energy to flow as it should. Also accupressure uses massage techniques to do the same thing. And it sounds like this "body talk" is likely another way to do so. I would expect that proper meditation could also do a lot, in fact this body talk probably gets you into a meditative state.

deepdoctrine
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by deepdoctrine »

Thanks for your thoughts and feedback. Very informative! I completely agree that there are good and bad out there. I also agree that it isn't exactly related to astral projection...I guess the reason I brought this up is because the practitioner did. While talking about my skepticism with her she mentioned "remote viewing" and how that is a gift/power out there that many people don't know about either. I found it strange that she would use this BodyTalk and remote viewing in the same sentence/dialogue because I have read many of the posts here on remote viewing and I agree that it is probably something we shouldn't mess with. She also put up the argument that people use the power of weegie boards for bad things...so in a sense - she is agreeing that there are good and bad out there. She told me that she has petitioned with the Lord and told him she does not want to be viewed as wacky but she has been given the reassurance that this is something she is supposed to do.

I've been trying to be very careful and have the Spirit with me while going through these sessions... Just coming up with a bit of a blank.

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Original_Intent
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Original_Intent »

That is exactly how I felt about ki and why I eventually talked to several bishops about it. My understanding is that if you are living worthily to receive guidance, but you don't get any, that is the Lord telling you to use your own best judgment.

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shadow
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

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It sounds similar to NMT which worked for a terrible allergy problem I used to have :idea:

http://www.nmt.md/Patients/MainPatients.cfm

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kathyn
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by kathyn »

Ki (Chi) and BodyTalk sound awfully New-Agey to me. I would recommend some healthy caution in these things. Just because they are LDS doesn't make me totally comfortable with these practitioners.

If you are getting a "stupor of thought" (coming up a bit blank), then perhaps that is your answer....then maybe it isn't right for you. I won't presume to know what is right for you, but just be careful.

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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by creator »

BodyTalk certainly seems very similar to new age occult energy healing.

Healing can come through the power of God or the power of satan... your choice.

If you want to be healed why not follow what the scriptures and prophets have taught us is the proper way to be healed...

D&C 42: 43-44,48:
And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy. And the elders of the church, two or more, shall be called, and shall pray for and lay their hands upon them in my name; and if they die they shall die unto me, and if they live they shall live unto me. And again, it shall come to pass that he that hath faith in me to be healed, and is not appointed unto death, shall be healed.

D&C 35: 9:
And whoso shall ask it in my name in faith, they shall cast out devils; they shall heal the sick; they shall cause the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak, and the lame to walk.

D&C 84: 68:
In my name they shall heal the sick


We are to heal people, in the name of Jesus Christ, by the power and authority of the priesthood. And also use herbs which have been designed by God to also assist in the treatment of diseases:

Alma 46: 40:
And there were some who died with fevers, which at some seasons of the year were very frequent in the land—but not so much so with fevers, because of the excellent qualities of the many plants and roots which God had prepared to remove the cause of diseases, to which men were subject by the nature of the climate

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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by creator »

deepdoctrine wrote:I have been struggling with a physical pain for a long time.
Do you mind describing this physical pain? and what you think it is and what caused it, etc?

Rosabella
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Rosabella »

First let me say I have huge empathy for having to deal with severe pain,suffering and illnesses for I have had and have medical conditions that have drastically affected my life, even to the point of being bedridden for a couple years, in wheel chairs etc. So I completely understand the desire to find a cure or even a relief for a short time. I was healed completely by an energy healer at one time, though it did not last and I was told I needed to continue treatments. I declined once I found out that she had been a Satanist and had been a world renown psychic. She only left this way of life due to the high stress nature and she had enough money to settle down comfortably and live a quite life. She was not a repentant soul, merely tired of the fame. Her style was the basic energy healing that all of the energy healers use. I found there was a huge difference in her healing then what I have found within the Priesthood. Also I noted at the time even though she was very sweet, loving and kind something felt a little off. There was something I felt was not right. It took finding out more about her to put all the pieces together. What happened after my session with her was very telling, I started questioning many things, my mind was foggy. Things that were black and white became just grays. I was then approached with all kinds of occult teachings instantly and it was hard to recognize them as false. I was being presented with ideas like re-incarnation, Godhood without the accountability that is in the Lord's plan of salvation etc. It was very hard to tell they were wrong. This was a very close call for me, and has made it profoundly clear to me why we are to stay away from, sorcerers,astrologers, those that have familiar spirits, diviners etc... I was almost snared and almost lost my way. I feel that you lose the Spirit when you dabble into these things, and you are left with just your understandings. We are really good at fooling ourselves into thinking we "still have" the Spirit with us. When we have taken one step off the path we do not have the Holy Ghost with us anymore. It is very dangerous to dabble into the occult.

I know this will not be a popular post for many LDS have gotten involved into these kinds of things, but I can tell you that I was told by the GAs that it was not to be done. If I had not talked to them about this very subject I would not take such a direct stand on this matter I would only state my personal opinion. You do not know me, so I understand that what I say will be questioned, I just hope if someone wants to know the truth of what I say that they truly ask if what I say is true with an open mind for the Spirit to answer.

Body Talk is energy healing. From the site http://www.bodytalksystem.com "BodyTalk is a revolutionary healthcare system that utilizes state-of-the-art energy medicine to optimize the body's internal communications. This helps the body to operate more efficiently and effectively respond to injury and illness."

All energy healing/energy medicine and manipulation is based on the same principles. They work with the bodies energy. There is no good kind or bad kind there is only one kind…bad. Most practitioners do not know what the force is they are tapping into. They are first taught it is just a neutral energy then latter if they get deeper instructions the source of the real force/energy is taught to them. They are all taught at first it is the body that is telling them what it needs and that the power to help the body heal is neutral, but when you go deeper you find out what that really means.

Having discussed the many forms of energy healing with the GAs. The feedback I got back for the Prophet and agreement of the Apostles was it was NOT ok. The power is not coming from God and is not neutral. I know this is a hard issue for many people to accept. But it is exactly what they told me. They actually said anyone doing energy healing should not hold temple recommends. I have an extended relative that is an energy healer she works with the bodies’ energy field and works with the chakras. She was told by her stake President that she could not hold a temple recommend until she stopped doing any energy work, also if continued she may have faced worse disciple.

The scripture make it very clear how the Lord uses spiritual power to heal. He does it through the Laying on of hand of the Priesthood. Anything more than this is not of God but actual is going around God and His will. This is a spiritual healing; it is the counterfeit of the Lords way. There are other means of healing that do not uses forces to do them, but when you start using forces or energy you have now entered into the realm of spiritual forces and energy. There is not a neutral energy we can tap into.

This is quite lengthy but I have put some data together that is helpful if someone really wants to understand why this is not good.

This is not an easy one to understand or recognize as something possibly evil. For it appears to be good and loving. We want to be healed and wonderful people want to help us heal. Many feel that if the outcome is positive how could it be bad? Many good hearted people are practicing energy healing. The core difference in energy healing and the Priesthood blessings is Fathers will.

There has not been a very clear directive pertaining to this subject. It exists but it is not easily found I will show some references later.

In meeting with the General Authorities we discussed in great detail the energy healing and the popularity of within and without the Church. They made it very clear that it was something we were not to participate in. I have an extended relative that is an energy healer. She was told by her Bishop and Stake President to quit completely or she could not have a temple recommend she was not happy with this order but did comply. So there appears to be different actions being taken or appear to be. I have also spoken with a person that talks in-depth with Elder Pace. He has also verified the stand the Church takes on energy healing and all the other occult practices.

Books such as Carol Tuttle’s Remembering Wholeness which deals with energy healing and the Law of attraction are not sold in LDS book stores. I inquired to Deseret the reason why they do not carry it. I was told it was carried at one point then pulled from the shelves because of content. If you look through Deseret they do not carry anything that deals with energy healing even though many LDS have written books on the subject.

In meeting with the GAs I became very aware of their position on this matter, though it is not as clear among members of the Church. I was told that this matter along with other issues will be dealt with at the time we pull from the world. If it was address outwardly at this time it would affect the harvest. They expect that their clarifying the areas that are occult in detail will be the source and cause of the great sifting of the wheat and tares within the Church. If you listen to what they say or re-read conference talks it is clear that they are opposed to these very things, they just do not name them out-right. They instead tell us where to look for truth and happiness. They teach Fathers Plan over warning us of each detail of Lucifer’s.

A vital point to keep in mind is that energy healers can heal without being worthy or having authority to do so, nor are asking for the Lords Will. They can live very sinful lives yet heal. The Gifts of the Holy Ghost are conditional. You must meet certain requirement to receive the gifts. The healers have no such requirements as we do in our Church. I am in no way saying that every person that tries to do energy healing is evil, just that that the power does not come from them and is not neutral nor can it come from God for he has rules that are not being met.


Here is a reference that I feel helps clarify where the Church stand on energy healing and who is the only ones to do it by the power of God.

http://tiny.cc/Healing533


Teachings of Joseph Smith

The sick may be healed through faith and the exercise of priesthood power, according to the Lord’s will.

“What is the sign of the healing of the sick? The laying on of hands is the sign or way marked out by James, and the custom of the ancient Saints as ordered by the Lord, and we cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord [see James 5:14–15].”

James 5:14-15

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

As this states there 3 steps necessary for spiritual healing from God: 1) Faith 2) Priesthood 3) God’s will. We cannot obtain the blessing by pursuing any other course except the way marked out by the Lord in James, per Joseph Smith.


In my research I have tried to understand where spiritual powers come from and if any were neutral. What I have found and what was agreed upon by the GAs was the power comes from either God or Lucifer and that there is no neutral power we can tap into ourselves. For we are either doing the Lord’s will or Lucifer’s and through their power. Therefore spiritual healing outside of the authority of the Priesthood is not an accepted practice.


Elder Bednar said in "SEEK LEARNING BY FAITH" Address to CES Religious Educators February 3, 2006 Jordan Institute of Religion)


"In this regard, you and I are much like the long, thin strands of glass used to create the fiber-optic cables through which light signals are transmitted over very long distances. Just as the glass in these cables must be pure to conduct the light efficiently and effectively, so we should become and remain worthy conduits through whom the Spirit of the Lord can operate.

But brothers and sisters, we must be careful to remember in our service that we are conduits and channels; we are not the light.”




The foremost leader in all Energy Healing is Barbara Ann Brennan she is well respected and most all books and practitioners of energy healing refer to her. Here is the information regarding her on her book “Hands of Light: A Guide to Healing Through the Human Energy Field.

BARBARA ANN BRENNAN is a practicing healer, therapist and scientist. She was a research scientist for NASA at the Goddard space Flight Center following the completion of her M.S. in Atmospheric Physics from the University of Wisconsin. For the past fifteen years she has been stud3dng and working with the human energy field and involved in research projects with Drexel University and the Institute for the New Age. She was trained in bioenergetic therapy at the Institute for Psychophysical Synthesis, Community of the Whole Person and in the Core Energetic Process at the Institute for the New Age. She has studied with both American and Native American healers. Barbara is the founder and director of the GAIABRIEL foundation in New York City where she teaches and conducts a healing practice. In addition, her teaching and healing take her throughout North America, as well as to several countries in Europe.”

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Brennan for latest updates on her or her website http://www.barbarabrennan.com/

Wikipedia:

“Her first book, Hands of Light: A Guide to Healing Through the Human Energy Field, became popular in 1989 and is considered a "classic"[4] in the field of spiritual healing, with reputedly over one million copies in print in 22 languages. Brennan's books are most noted for their drawings of auras and energy fields, and her descriptions of how human energy fields interact with each other.[1] Her ideas and healing processes are similar in some ways to writers such as Mantak Chia and Ken Page, and draw on the views of Theosophists such as C. W. Leadbeater and Alice Bailey.

….Brennan claims to receive intuitive messages about her clients during sessions. She also claims to see repetitive patterns in the energy consciousness of her clients indicating common roots underlying their difficulties. Her books draw on messages channeled from Heyoan, who she claims to believe to be her spiritual guide.”



Here are some quotes from her book that I feel will give you a greater understanding of how energy healing works. Many books on this subject do not go as deep as she does, they merely tell you that you are tapping into a source energy but who or what that source energy is they leave out. You must look to where they gained their knowledge of energy healing and from those sources the same data is always found which is the same as what Barbara Ann Brennan teaches.


Hands of Light by Barbara Ann Brennan

Hands Of Light: Chapter One: The Healing Experience Pg 3

During the healing session, I scanned her energy field, or aura, using my “High Sense Perception” (HSP). I “saw” some abnormal cells inside the uterus on the lower left side. At the same time, I “saw” the circumstances around the miscarriage. The abnormal cells were located where the placenta had been attached. I also ‘heard” words that described Jenny’s condition and what to do about it. What I heard was that Jenny needed to take a month off, go to the ocean, take specific vitamins, stay on a specific diet and meditate daily, spending at least two hours a day alone. Then after spending the month healing herself, she should return to the normal medical world and be tested again. , I was told that the healing was completed and that she didn’t need to return to me. During the healing I received information about her psychological attitude and how that was affecting her inability to heal herself. She blamed herself for the miscarriage. As a result, she was placing undue stress upon herself and was preventing her body from healing itself after the miscarriage. I was told (and this is the hard part for me) that she should not go to another physician for at least a month because the different diagnoses and pressures to have a hysterectomy were adding greatly to the stress. Her heart was breaking because she wanted a child so badly.


Hands Of Light : Chapter One: The Healing Experience Pg 5

How do these seemingly miraculous events take place? What am I doing to help these people? The process I use is called laying-on of hands, faith healing or spiritual healing. It is not at all a mysterious process, but very straightforward, although many times very complicated. It is a procedure that involves rebalancing the energy field, which I call the Human Energy Field that exists around each of us. Everyone has an energy field or aura that surrounds and interpenetrates the physical body. This energy field is intimately associated with health. High Sense Perception is a way of perceiving things beyond the normal ranges of human senses. With it one can see, hear, smell, taste and touch things that cannot normally be perceived. High Sense Perception is a type of “seeing” in which you perceive a picture in your mind without the use of your normal vision. It is not imagination. It is sometimes referred to as clairvoyance.


Hands Of Light : Chapter One: The Healing Experience Pg 6

To develop HSP, it is necessary to enter into an expanded state of consciousness. There are many methods for doing this. Meditating is fast becoming the most well-known. Meditation can be practiced in many forms; it is important to find the form that best suits you. I will offer some suggested meditations, from which you may want to choose, later in this book. I have also found that you can enter an expanded state of consciousness by jogging, walking, fishing, sitting on a sand dune and watching the waves roll in, or sitting in the woods, as I did as a child.


Hands Of Light : Chapter One: The Healing Experience Pg 7

….I found myself receiving information about the source of a client’s illness. This information seemed to be coming from what appeared to be an intelligence higher than myself or what I normally considered to be myself. This process of receiving information this way is popularly called channeling. Channelled information would come in the form of words, concepts or symbolic pictures that would enter into my mind when I was rebalancing the client’s energy field. I would always be in an altered state of consciousness when doing this. I became proficient in receiving information in a combination of ways using HSP (i.e., channeling or seeing). I would correlate what I received in either a symbolic picture in my mind, a concept or a direct verbal message with what I saw in the energy field. For example, in one case I heard directly, “She has cancer,” and I saw a black spot in her energy field. The black spot correlated in size, shape and location with results from a CAT scan taken later. This combination of receiving information with HSP has become very efficient, and I have a very high accuracy in any particular description of a client’s condition. I also receive information as to what self-help actions the client should take during the course of the healing process. This process usually entails a series of healing sessions that last over several weeks or months, depending on the seriousness of the disease. The healing process includes rebalancing the field. Changing the living habits and dealing with the initiating trauma.


Hands of Light Chapter 3: A NOTE ON TRAINING AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF GUIDANCE pg 14

You always get back what you put out. That is what is called karma. As the energy flowing through you as a healer increases, so does your power. If you put any of this power to a negative use, you will eventually experience that same negativity coming back at you.

As my life unfolded, the unseen hand that led me became more and more perceptible. At first I vaguely sensed it. Then I began seeing spiritual beings, as if in a vision. Then I began to hear them talking to me and feel them touch me. I now accept that I have a guide. I can see, hear, and feel him. “He” says he is not male or female. “He” says that in his world there is no splitting along sexual lines and that beings at his level of existence are whole. “He” says that his name is Heyoan, which means, “The Wind Whispering truth Through the Centuries.” His introduction to me was slow and organic. The nature of our relationship grows daily, as I am guided to new levels of understanding. You will see it build as we go through this adventure together. At times, I simply call it metaphor.

….Heyoan says that if we just listened to this guidance and followed it we would rarely get sick. In other words, attending to the discomfort you feel puts you back into balance and therefore health. This discomfort can be in your in body in physical form, like physical discomfort or pain; it could be on any level of your being— emotional, mental, or spiritual. It could be in any area of your life.

Heyoan asks, “Where is the discomfort in your body/life? How long have you known about it? What is it saying to you? What have you done about it?’

If you answer those questions honestly you will find how much you disregard the best tool you have to keep yourself healthy, happy and wise. Any discomfort anywhere in your body/ life is a direct message to you about how you are out of alignment with your true self.


Hands of Light Chapter 3: A NOTE ON TRAINING AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF GUIDANCE pg 15

...I was a counselor in Washington, D.C. During the sessions I was giving people, I began to see to what might be termed past lives. I would see the individual I was working with in a completely different setting in a different time frame. Whatever the scene was, it was relevant some way to what was going on in the person’s life. For example, a woman who was afraid of the water had drowned in another lifetime. She also had a difficulty in asking for help in this lifetime. In the lifetime when she drowned, nobody could hear her screams for help when she fell off a boat. This personality difficulty interfered with her life now more than the fear of the water.


Hands of Light Chapter 5 HISTORY OF THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION INTO THE HUMAN ENERGY FIELD pg 29

Many esoteric teachings—the ancient Hindu Vedic texts, the Theosophists, the Rosicrucians, the Native American Medicine People, the Tibetan and Indian Buddhists, the Japanese Zen Buddhists, Madame Blavatsky, and Rudolph Steiner, to mention a few—describe the Human Energy Field in detail. Recently many with modem scientific training have been able to add observations on a concrete, physical level……


Barbara throughout her book quotes the deepest occultists there are as sources to understand energy healing including Helena Blavatsky who is considered the Mother of the New Age. In Blavatsky's books she says Lucifer is the God of the planet and is th good. She even for some years had a magazine called Lucifer. She explains energy healing the same way Barbara does. We may think of this as just eastern philosophies, but eastern religions were heavily influenced by the occult practices.


Hands of Light Chapter 5 HISTORY OF THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION INTO THE HUMAN ENERGY FIELD pg 35

Marilyn Ferguson declared in Brain Mind Bulletin that “the holistic model has been described as the ‘emerging paradigm,’ an integral :theory that would catch all the wonderful wildlife of science and spirit. Here at last is a theory that marries biology to physics in an open system.

(Since Barbara quote Marilyn Ferguson here is some information regarding her)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Ferguson

Marilyn Ferguson (April 5, 1938 – October 19, 2008) was an influential American author, editor and public speaker, best known for her 1980 book The Aquarian Conspiracy and its affiliation with the New Age Movement in popular culture.
A founding member of the Association of Humanistic Psychology, Ferguson published and edited the well-regarded science newsletter Brain/Mind Bulletin from 1975 to 1996. She eventually earned numerous honorary degrees, served on the board of directors of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, and befriended such diverse figures of influence as inventor and theorist Buckminster Fuller, spiritual author Ram Dass, Nobel Prize-winning chemist Ilya Prigogine and billionaire Ted Turner. Ferguson's work also influenced Vice President Al Gore, who participated in her informal network while a senator and later met with her in the White House.

Before long the book was being credited as "the handbook of the New Age" (USA Today) and a guidepost to a philosophy "working its way increasingly into the nation's cultural, religious, social, economic and political life" (New York Times).

The book was eventually translated into some 16 foreign languages, and Ferguson became a sought-after speaker across North America and around the world, eventually traveling as far as Brazil, Sweden and India to convey her hopeful message. In 1985 she was featured as a keynote speaker at the United Nations-sponsored "Spirit of Peace" conference, where she appeared along with Mother Teresa and the Dalai Lama of Tibet.



Figure 24-6: Hands of Light In the book “Hands of Light”

The picture shows the healer standing over the client. It shows spirit entities putting their hands on the healer’s hands and sending the healing energy through the healer to the patient. It is clear in her book that there is not a neutral source of energy that we can just tap into, but an energy source from spirits.


Full Spectrum Healing Pg 225

All this is done with the guides directing your hands and healing light. Your hands will move automatically.


Hands of Light Chapter 27 THE DEVFTOPMENT OF A HEALER Pg 276

Deep inside of us there exists a spark of the Divine will. God’s will. Many people experience Divine will as outside of themselves. This means they must always find someone else to tell them what to do. This leads to a feeling of worthlessness. I have found that a spark of Divine will exists within every human being. It is essential that you allow yourself time to search for it inside yourself until you find it. It is there, you are not the exception. What does it mean to follow God’s will anyway? It certainly doesn’t mean to follow God’s will as defined by an outer authority.


Some points I would like to cover based on the previous quotes.

Barbara makes it clear that we are not to follow the will of a Father in Heaven. In the new age Occult we are all “gods” we have the power within to co-create our own realities including healings. They mock and deny Christ and Father as our God and disagree we need to submit our will to Father. Just as Lucifer will not submit his will to Father they say we should not.

As LDS we know that the Lord will have the Elders give blessings but the power is known to come from God. It is not the Priesthood holder’s power. It is the Lords. It is the same with the New Age/Occult healers it is not “their” power it comes from spirits. Merely praying or saying in Jesus name Amen does not change “who” the power is coming from. We are told clearly that the only power of healing done in this spiritual fashion comes from the Priesthood holders under very specific conditions. This does not mean we cannot pray for someone’s health to become better. But it does mean that the spiritual power is to be administered only through the Priesthood in the correct manner.

There is a good book on this very subject written by a Christian that was an energy healer. It explains her experiences and how she came to the knowledge of the source of the power. It is called “The Beautiful Side of Evil” by Johanna Michaelson. It is a fascinating story of her search for understanding of these powers. The whole time she was always trying to do everything for the Lord, but she finally realized the true source of the power. She found out it was not God.

A very defining difference of healing by energy healers is the complete absence of the Lord’s Will. They heal without the consent of Father. When Priesthood holders give a blessing it is based solely on the Lords will and the Faith of the individual. We do not bless the person with health if it is not the Lords will. The energy healers do just that. They go around the Lord and use powers to heal without his will. There is a difference in using herbs or medicine, for they are not a spiritual power energy healing is.

Barbara makes it clear the information and power to heal is coming from spirits. She talks about Channelling which is the same as being a medium allowing a spirit entity to possess your body, mind and thoughts. She allows their power to flow through her to heal her patients. She talks about Karma which is solely a teaching of reincarnation, which is a doctrine in the occult. She tells of her spirit guide and his name and what he tells her. She comes to the understanding that spiritual healing comes not from us but from spirit guides. Witches and the deepest levels of the occult use this practice of energy healing. They know where the power is coming from.

This is Lucifer’s counterfeit to the Lord’s established and ordained means of healing the sick. We need to stay away from energy healing for it does not come from God. I have known many people that have gotten evolved in energy healing and have left the Church. It does work but the miracles performed are not from the correct side.


I agree with LDSConservative that "We are to heal people, in the name of Jesus Christ, by the power and authority of the priesthood. And also use herbs which have been designed by God to also assist in the treatment of diseases." These are the ways laid out by the Lord.

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mchlwise
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by mchlwise »

Original_Intent wrote:And please be careful not to scoff at such things I was a skeptic once too! But have seen and experienced too much to scoff any more. Anyway back to your question....

There was a woman in a martial arts class that I was an assistant instructor in. The instructor was an incredibly spiritual and all around great guy. There was a woman in the class that practiced "Reiki". (Translates as spirit ki). She claimed to be able to heal with it and so forth...
I have a VERY good friend (not a member of the church) who practices Reiki, and does some amazing things with it.

I agree that "bodytalk" sounds like another form of energy healing, and that it, like Reiki, is not necessarily "evil" (though it may be able to be used for that) and can be very beneficial if used properly.

edit: OF COURSE there's no substitute for a priesthood blessing, but there are plenty of "therapies" that can aid healing - I don't think the priesthood and therapies are mutually exclusive.

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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by deepdoctrine »

Thanks for all the comments everyone... Someone had asked what the physical pain was. It is gallbladder pain. No stones - just a non-functioning gall bladder. Don't want to get it out because I have heard horror stories. Had the pain on & off for ~8 years. Sometimes can control it with diet. Honestly hasn't been as bad since I have been doing this bodytalk.

Bella - thanks for the info/feedback and thoughts. VERY INFORMATIVE!! Sounds like you have had quite a bit of discussions regarding this with GA's. Do you have relatives that are GA's? How are you able to talk with them so frequently about things like this and was it specifically about "BodyTalk"? Some of the things you bring to light really ring a bell with me. I remember talking with the practitioner's husband awhile ago when he had been pretty sick - he told me his first thoughts were to get a blessing and have a bodytalk session. I found it weird that these were both being used in the same sentence. It didn't seem right to me. There is a lot to bodytalk that doesn't seem right, some that seems ok. When I hear about suppressed memories that are blocking my ability to heal - that seems a bit weird. When I am told my gallbladder is not communicating with my liver and we need to get that communication started again - that seems weird. When I am told that she has clients that she does bodytalk for over the phone (because they are in a different state) - that seems weird. Lots of weird things that I just can't seem to accept as being in harmony with the gospel. I don't necessarily think it is because I am being skeptical - I think it is because it doesn't jive with my understandings of the gospel. Maybe I am wrong.....

It's strange to me that a person can be living in harmony with the gospel, have a temple recommend, have a testimony, appear to be quite spiritual - yet be deceived by something like this (I am referencing the practitioner). She honestly feels like this is something the Lord has blessed her with in order to help other people. She has said that she has had multiple prayers answered in ways that cannot be denied. Her husband had said the same. She has said the spirit has vividly told her this is something that is right for her and something she should pursue as a profession. She said to ignore those promptings to do bodytalk would be ignoring the spirit in her life. Is it still ok to tell someone they are wrong and being deceived if they have a testimony of this?

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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

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deepdoctrine wrote:It's strange to me that a person can be living in harmony with the gospel, have a temple recommend, have a testimony, appear to be quite spiritual - yet be deceived by something like this ...She has said the spirit has vividly told her this is something that is right for her and something she should pursue as a profession.
The spirit told her to heal people for money?

That doesn't sound like something the Holy Ghost would tell someone. Sounds like a deceiving spirit to me.

Acts 8:20 "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money"

BodyTalk is a form of spiritual healing, it's not hard to guess which spirit is doing the healing when there is money involved.

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Original_Intent
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by Original_Intent »

Bella,

Thank you so much for that post. It rings very true to me and I think helps me understand why I continued to speak to bishops about it even after the first bishop told me it was ok. I do not think that I was doing anything wrong, but there was always a bit of a sense (as you say very hard to accept) that something was not completely right, or that use of Ki even in martial arts was, if not exactly forbidden, something that could lead into the occult. Your post helps clarify to me why I was having those feelings. Especially what struck me while I read what you were saying is there is no need of worthiness, and you do develop a certain degree of pride as you are able to accomplish things (i.e. I was able to break over 20 paving stones in under 30 seconds with my hand and no bruising) etc. And I could see especially using that kind of power to heal without needing to live worthily is a very bad and dangerous thing in and of itself.

I feel your post was very much needed by me personally and I thank you for it,a nd thank the spirit for guiding you in the gentle way you addressed it without calling me a bad person :wink:

Now not to undermine what you said but the devil's advocate (I know, dangerous position!) would you say that health care practicioner's are also in this same category? I mean they are healing people and can do so without living righteous lives. And they do it for a living. Would you put this in the same category? Why or why not? If medical doctors are OK, then what about accunpuncture and accupressure? I guarantee you that those work on systems of realigning body energy flows, overcoming blocked chakras, etc. Same holds true for many of the more skilled massage therapists. What would your feelings about those things be?
Meditation? Yoga? Again both are ultimately working on bringing your body energy into harmony. I have heard GAs say that meditationcombined with scripture study is very advantage. And by meditation they do NOT just mean "think about it" or ponder, they have in some cases gotten very specific about meditation techniques. Again meditation does not necessarily correspond to living a righteous life.

I feel a little bit like Zeezrom - but I am not trying to trap you with your words, I honestly would like your opinion on these questions.

I will add one other thing that will back up what you said Bella. When i was heavily involved with Ki work, I felt very spiritually calm and aware, and yet did not feel particularly close the the Lord. That may sound contradictory, and it is likely impossible to explain to anyone who hadn't been there. So despite my questions I would like to reiterate I felt aht Bella's post is dead on and I agree with it all.

I guess the ideal is to live worthily of the spirit and combine that with meditation, proper WoW diet, etc.

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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by ndjili »

Thanks for all the comments everyone... Someone had asked what the physical pain was. It is gallbladder pain. No stones - just a non-functioning gall bladder. Don't want to get it out because I have heard horror stories. Had the pain on & off for ~8 years. Sometimes can control it with diet. Honestly hasn't been as bad since I have been doing this bodytalk
I have 2 sisters who had to have their gall bladders removed (in their 20's). It got so bad for them they couldnt eat, one got pancreatitis and could've died and the other had to have hers removed in emergency surgery while pregnant. They've had them out for years with no problems. I tell you after watching what they went through I personally would get mine taken out in a heartbeat.

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kathyn
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by kathyn »

I'll have to second what ndjili said. I haven't had my gall bladder removed, but I know quite a few people who have...including family members. The procedure is fairly simple now and complications aren't that common. Usually the hospital stay is only one day. Perhaps you should get a second opinion from another doctor and then see how you feel about it. Make it a matter of prayer, especially. Do you think it's better to suffer from a lot of pain off and on throughout your life, or just get the gallbladder removed and be done with it?

Personally, I think if I were leaning toward surgery, I'd get it done sooner than later. We just don't know what might be coming down the road in a while.

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ready2prepare
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by ready2prepare »

kathyn wrote:Perhaps you should get a second opinion from another doctor and then see how you feel about it. Make it a matter of prayer, especially.
And if you haven't already done so, deepdoctrine, please
be sure to get a priesthood blessing. You need to get that
before you seek ANY treatment (traditional medical or
otherwise).

Through a priesthood blessing my father was completely
healed from a serious liver condition where the doctors
gave him only a 10% chance to live and said if he did
survive he'd be in a nursing home for the rest of his life.

Priesthood blessings DO work. They can also give you
counsel direct from your Heavenly Father to help you
make the choice best suited for you.

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

A Me
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by A Me »

I'd like to echo Sharon. Priesthood blessings have helped me so much and have healed my husband and I several times. Where we either didn't have enough faith or it wasn't Heavenly Father's will, we used herbs and diet along with prayer and fasting. When we do these things, our health improves enormously.

I sympathize with the gallbladder pain. My husband has trouble with his. For attacks, he uses extra-virgin olive oil and milk thistle tincture (Herb Pharm brand or Dr. Schulze if he can get it... also Herb Pharm has a formula called Liver Tonic we use that has other herbs besides milk thistle and is also good for attacks)(BTW, the olive oil and the tincture are taken separately). I also rub a little castor oil on his abdomen in the area over his gallbladder, cover it with a strip of old flannel (because castor oil stains) and cover that with a hot water bottle followed by a blanket over it all. We only do the castor oil/hot water bottle when he has a chance to lie down.

For a general tonic he uses a tincture made of barberry and other herbs. He's switched to a vegan diet while we work on this and he's been focusing on adding more raw foods, including things like sprouted bread and low-heated dishes made of sprouted grains. Green leafies, too. This seems to be helping him. He hasn't had an attack in at least a month or two now and he has more energy than he did last year.

Regarding energy healing, specifically Reiki...

I've gone to a Reiki practitioner once for a hormonal disturbance that was pretty frightening to all involved and has, thank goodness, never shown up since, though I do have to watch what I eat and take a female balance herbal formula for days when I feel my PMS-equivalent start to rear its head. She came highly recommended from a trusted source. So, I went.

On the way there, since I had no idea what I was getting involved in and because I've always been aware of just how much power there is out there when it comes to handling energy (long story), I prayed specifically for angels to be with me as protectors during the session. That way, if anything bad happened, I would be aware of it, and I'd already have sentinels there to keep evil ones away. I felt the Spirit very strong and felt my prayer would be granted.

The session began with the practitioner just talking to me about why I was there and led to me talking about a lot of my frustrations at the time. That was really the best part, though it wasn't the most interesting. Though I learned a lot through this session, I think that was the part that helped me the most.

Then, I laid down on the table and she began to do her work on me. I could go in detail about all the things I experienced, but I'll just share the highlights that I feel relate to the topic.

First, I felt some good spirits in the room, so I feel my prayer regarding protection was answered. I have never had a lasting, bad effect from what happened later and I feel it was because I was protected during it.

When she first started working on me, I felt someone from the other side standing at my head, looking down, and he was very angry. He was... it felt like he was shouting at me, telling me I had so much more available to me and why was I here? That passed but I remembered that very clearly since there was a lingering frustration in the room from that individual that wouldn't go away. I could be wrong, but I think it was one of the practitioner's "guides" who was shouting at me and that he knew who I was (generally) and the covenants I'd made.

I never got the feeling there was evil in the room. Misguided folk, perhaps, but never pure evil. I've since had experience with demons and feel confident in that.

The biggest impression I got from the Spirit went something like this (I'm combining several lessons into one statement): though her intentions are good, this woman doesn't know what she's doing. The impression I got was that energy healing is dangerous in the same way that working with power lines is dangerous. And there is no human who truly understands it. God, on the other hand, understands it perfectly and so we need to trust in him and work only according to his will and under his supervision through the Priesthood as he has revealed it. Anything else is like handing a live wire to a toddler.

At one point, she had a lot of difficulty with a particular blockage. She tried several things and nothing worked. After a long pause, I heard her say, "Yes, that might work," as if talking to a colleague about a procedure. I did not get the impression she was speaking with God or one of his messengers. And whatever she did next did indeed work. I tell this to confirm that Reiki practitioners do indeed talk to spirits during the session.

Time lost all meaning during the session. It was kind of like being in the temple in that sense. What I thought was an hour session turned out to be two hours. And I do remember feeling a light weight on my chest. I thought she had put a crystal there because she does use one as part of the session. When I looked, though, there was nothing there. That sensation left after I got in the car to head home.

All in all, it was the weirdest experience I've ever had on a physical and spiritual level. I walked out of there calm, but also so angry and resentful I could hardly stand it. About that, what I learned from the Spirit was that all those emotions had been there, but going to the session had brought them to the surface at a pace that... well, it was a bit much for me to handle. I was supposed to go back for more sessions, but I didn't feel any need, and what I got from prayer was that my curiosity had been satisfied and there were much better options available. I feel that if I had tried to go back again, the protection I was given the first time would not have been repeated.

Since then, I have made prayer a greater focus in my life along with all the Sunday School answers. The best thing has been the priesthood blessings I've gotten from my husband. When you have someone who's truly listening to the Spirit, a priesthood blessing often becomes awe-inspiring. And I've never felt angry or resentful afterward. ;)

***

Off topic, somewhat: During this same period of time, and during a rather dark part of it, I was at the mall and felt impressed to go into a store that sells unpolished crystals and other rocks. One of them jumped out at me, and I picked it up without looking to see what it did. I felt much better and much relieved and felt nothing from the Spirit saying this was a bad thing. I thought about buying it, but just as I turned to head to the checkout, I was told not to buy it. The impression I got was that this was temporary. Then, I heard this specific phrase in my head, "I will be your rock and your salvation," and felt the Spirit so strong it was easy to put the crystal back.

I share this to reiterate that God knows energy healing better than any of his children. And also because I love that twist on a familiar phrase. :)

I'll stop talking now.

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shadow
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by shadow »

shadow wrote:It sounds similar to NMT which worked for a terrible allergy problem I used to have :idea:

http://www.nmt.md/Patients/MainPatients.cfm
After reading some posts, I changed my mind. NMT is not similar to bodytalk or reiki. There are no spirits involved. But it is different than going to a regular Doctor.

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M249Gunner
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by M249Gunner »

I had a gall bladder attack a few months back while at work. It was excruciating. I figured when I went home, I would lay down and be ok. I didn't know it was a gall bladder problem at the time. I arrived home and laid down. That made it worse. I told my wife about it. She checked the symptoms in her book and found my pain to be gall bladder pain.

I packed a bag and grabbed my laptop, knowing I would be in the hospital for a couple days if I had it removed and didn't want to be bored. Also, I was prepared to travel a few hours to a safer hospital than the local one that kills people (Castle View Hospital-they have a fairly bad record of accidentally killing people through stupidity). I wasn't sure how I would make the trip because I was in so much pain, but I wasn't about to be operated on at Castleview (known as Casketview by locals).

Anyway, before going, I decided I should have a blessing from my neighbor who is a councilor in the bishopric and also a very good chiropractor. This guy has fixed me multiple times, however I was sure there was nothing a chiropractor could do for a bad gall bladder.

He was at his office, so I went there on the way to the hospital. After arriving, he told me to come on back to an exam room where he had me lay down. He touched a couple of places and asked about the level of pain. From that, he determined there were no stones. He rolled me over and found that, lo and behold, there were some vertebrae out of place. They were apparently impinging on nerves from my gall bladder to my spine (my assumption). He did some adjusting and the pain was 90-95% gone. He gave me a blessing and told me to go home and put some ice on it. I went home and fell asleep on a large ice pack. When I woke up a couple of hours later, my back felt frozen half way through. The next morning, I was fine and went to work. It was almost unbelievable because the pain had been so intense.

I had already been healed multiple times in my life by good chiropractors-I don't have time to tell you all the interesting stories, but I didn't think the gall bladder problem could have been solved by chiropractic care. Fortunately, I was wrong. I don't think he could have fixed it if there were stones involved. Fortunately, there were not. My wife just told me he did have some sort of supplemental cleanse that would have removed stones.

Anyway, if you are not too far away from where I live, I could give you his contact info. He is a very good chiropractor.

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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

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M249Gunner wrote:I didn't think the gall bladder problem could have been solved by chiropractic care. Fortunately, I was wrong. I don't think he could have fixed it if there were stones involved. ...My wife just told me he did have some sort of supplemental cleanse that would have removed stones.
There certainly are many great chiropractors out there.

I know people who had Gall stones and got rid of them by doing an Apple Juice cleanse, not store bought juice, fresh Juice made with only apples. (there is more to it than just apples...) How do I know this cleanse actually caused the passing of the gall stones? One friend was in pain and went to see a doctor, the doctor confirmed she had gall stones and wanted to operate (not sure if he was going to remove the stones or remove the whole gall bladder)... my friend said, nope and went home, started the apple juice cleanse... a week or so later she came back to the doctor (pain free) showing him the gall stones in a bag (yuck).

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AussieOi
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by AussieOi »

Enjoyble thread
surprised hadn't come up before
couple of thoughts from my experiences
bellas covered it well

Astral projection- works. But massive stay away
remote viewing- works, but unless it cones to you I'd not seek it
reiki- massive no
TM- nope
EK- nope
AA- once It said No, Now the church has adopted it's principles and overlayed doctrinal processes to it in it's addiction recovery programd
this healing stuff- yes- get a blessing. Then accept it's advice to seek professional help!
Doctors can be quaks

aromatherapy is crap but has elements of truth to it- idont seedanger in it but it's a part and parcel thing- who just does aromatherapy without also doing the aura, crystals, chakras etc?

ChKras true but do we understand it?
Chi ditto, with mumbo jumbo eastern philosophy added to it- confusing

accupuncture, physio, chiro- all valuable and proof we are learning much yet still knownothing about thebody

astronomy- great
astrology- truly there us something in it but avoid other than a gimmick laugh out loud about a horoscope and it's conveniently vague nature

numerology- another thing that always comes at a cost
yogic bouncing- oh brother
meditation- who has the time?

I've_never_met anyone into reiki who didn't think SHE was govinda, possessed higher wisdom, had special spiritS, was more often than not a single mother with 2x daughters (ok I'm generalizing now), but wasn't into every other type of healing and ("soft") new age philosophy who didn't think their wisdom was as good as the prophets. I'm sure there are exceptions but they ate my experiences. None of them stayed with the church except one who does have a gift of healing and I give her credit there is something there- as our scriptures say too. even if Her husband went to her I'd go to him as a priesthood holder. Not that I have

may I also add that my experiences show that some people I know got into this deep because they DO have a special gift/ ability- and without knowing the gospel they are seeking to help people. And this is their way. They aren't white whiches or the like. In 500 "years" time some of it may appear very normal to us- but for now, most of it- uh uh, give wide birth.....more often than not it has friends and baggage coming along for a ride

but I gotta say- talking to muscles and limbs? affirmations and visualisations ate real and tangible and useful- but this? Save your coin and do it yourself.

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kathyn
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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by kathyn »

AussieOi, I agree that it's good to steer clear of these things. Anything that makes us rely on "the arm of flesh" rather than Heavenly Father is a distraction at best and can be dabbling with evil, at worst. I think it's best to look to the Lord and the Priesthood. Then use our best common sense when we seek additional medical help.

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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by deepdoctrine »

WOW - great discussion everyone. Very grateful for the feedback and thoughts. As I have been reading through all the posts I failed to mention that I had a follow-up BodyTalk appointment today. I decided to cancel the appointment since I was still a bit undecided on all this stuff. The practitioner told me that it was OK because she was pretty busy and also trying to study up on some new things that could be very beneficial once she has the chance to masters the concepts. Sounds strange... I can't believe I hadn't thought of getting a blessing for this. I give blessing all the time but I never really think to call upon someone else to give me a blessing. That will be on my "to do" list. Thanks for the suggestions.

So the sense I am getting from everyone here is that this BodyTalk is probably something we would want to stay away from as well. AussieOi I didn't see you mention BodyTalk (wasn't sure what TM, EK and AA was)...I plan to continue to pray about this - but I think I agree.

It's going to be a difficult/uncomfortable discussion when I have to explain why I am not setting up additional appointments. I don't think the practitioner will appreciate me telling her that I believe this stuff is real, but may not necessarily be from our Heavenly Father. Any suggestion on how you would tell the practitioner (member of the church) who believes & has a testimony of this - that they may are possibly being deceived?

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Re: BodyTalk therapy questions

Post by AussieOi »

Yeah I mentioned bodytalk I said save your money the jokes on you
some good yoga will be just as effective
as we say in Oz, what a croc of.....manure



deepdoctrine wrote:WOW - great discussion everyone. Very grateful for the feedback and thoughts. As I have been reading through all the posts I failed to mention that I had a follow-up BodyTalk appointment today. I decided to cancel the appointment since I was still a bit undecided on all this stuff. The practitioner told me that it was OK because she was pretty busy and also trying to study up on some new things that could be very beneficial once she has the chance to masters the concepts. Sounds strange... I can't believe I hadn't thought of getting a blessing for this. I give blessing all the time but I never really think to call upon someone else to give me a blessing. That will be on my "to do" list. Thanks for the suggestions.

So the sense I am getting from everyone here is that this BodyTalk is probably something we would want to stay away from as well. AussieOi I didn't see you mention BodyTalk (wasn't sure what TM, EK and AA was)...I plan to continue to pray about this - but I think I agree.

It's going to be a difficult/uncomfortable discussion when I have to explain why I am not setting up additional appointments. I don't think the practitioner will appreciate me telling her that I believe this stuff is real, but may not necessarily be from our Heavenly Father. Any suggestion on how you would tell the practitioner (member of the church) who believes & has a testimony of this - that they may are possibly being deceived?

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