4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

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Joel
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4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

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4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) Four Mormon missionaries serving in the Mexican state of Chihuahua have been reassigned elsewhere in the country after trying to baptize three boys without their parents' approval.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not allow teaching or baptism of minors without permission of a parent or legal guardian.

Church spokesman Eric Hawkins says the missionaries unfortunately acted outside church policy and have been corrected.

The Salt Lake Tribune reports the four missionaries attempted to baptize a 9-year-old and two 11-year-olds in a church last week, promising the boys food to come inside the church and asking them to change into baptismal clothing. The missionaries were briefly detained by police after the boys became afraid and told their parents what happened.

Police said the four male missionaries were released after several hours because they had not committed a crime.

EmmaLee
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by EmmaLee »

They should've been sent home, not reassigned.

Lizzy60
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by Lizzy60 »

I have heard that in some missions the pressure to baptize is insanely intense. Perhaps they felt it was worth the risk, rather than face the humiliation of not reaching goals set by their leaders.

EmmaLee
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by EmmaLee »

Then shame on their leaders.

Besides, isn't Mexico one of the places there are a lot of baptisms all the time? My friend's son is serving there now and he and his comp have (legitimate) baptisms every single week. I could maybe see missionaries trying to do something like this in Europe or somewhere where baptism rates are very low - but Mexico??

Older/wiser?
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by Older/wiser? »

EmmaLee wrote:Idiots. They should've been sent home, not reassigned.
Yep you called it. How would I react if 4 young men got my sons into a building and wanted them to change clothes and bath ( baptize) them..hope they got taught a lesson they won't forget, the world we live in your not innocent messing with someone's kids.

kennyhs
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by kennyhs »

These are young men, sometimes they make some serious mistakes, but I don't hold their leaders or the missionaries in contempt, they made a mistake, they are young and devoting themselves for 2 years in service to the Lord, to me, that is amazing.

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h_p
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

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Lizzy60 wrote:I have heard that in some missions the pressure to baptize is insanely intense. Perhaps they felt it was worth the risk, rather than face the humiliation of not reaching goals set by their leaders.
This is how it is in my son's mission. The MP runs it like a high-pressure sales force. They're constantly being questioned when they don't meet their mission-imposed quotas, and so the missionaries make up stats and bend definitions to stay in their leader's good graces. I'll be glad when his president is released next month.

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jockeybox
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by jockeybox »

kennyhs wrote:These are young men, sometimes they make some serious mistakes, but I don't hold their leaders or the missionaries in contempt, they made a mistake, they are young and devoting themselves for 2 years in service to the Lord, to me, that is amazing.
When serious mistakes are made, serious consequences are appropriate. No one is questioning that a mission can be good for a young man or woman.
But what lesson could these missionaries learn if this is the result of their training?
Why would these young men feel so much pressure to baptize that they would resort to this type of behavior?

samizdat
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by samizdat »

In some areas of Mexico there have been historically false baptisms in order to meet the quotas set out by the MP, APs and ZLs. I even heard of cases where missionaries were sent home for not baptizing in two weeks. One mission had 10k baptisms during an MP tenure but no new comgregations to show for it. My mission president was not the type to pressure though a couple of asistontos (Spanish for Idiot Assistants) tried doing so.

During this MPs tenure, there were about 4000 baptisms, but in that time two STAKES were created and a third would be created shortly thereafter.

samizdat
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by samizdat »

People would go to cemeteries to get names for baptisms...common occurrence especially in the 90s...

Silver
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by Silver »

samizdat wrote:People would go to cemeteries to get names for baptisms...common occurrence especially in the 90s...
That sounds like Democrats voting in the general election.

JohnnyL
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by JohnnyL »

I have no idea why missions still set baptismal goals.

Did Ammon, Aaron, and the others do this?

Did Himni and Omner get sent home for not baptizing for a long period? Heck, they didn't even have serious investigators! What does the BoM say about that situation? Why don't church leaders seem to get it??

President Nelson came out years ago and taught in the MTC that missionaries should NOT have goals like that.
Whatever happened??
Last edited by JohnnyL on June 15th, 2016, 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JohnnyL
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by JohnnyL »

Silver wrote:
samizdat wrote:People would go to cemeteries to get names for baptisms...common occurrence especially in the 90s...
That sounds like Democrats voting in the general election.
=))

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h_p
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by h_p »

JohnnyL wrote:President Nelson came out years ago and taught in the MTC that missionaries should NOT have goals like that.
Whatever happened??
Because people can be so thick-headed, their leaders have to repeat it a million times in a million different ways for it to get through. This is how it's always been. People keep wanting to bring their man-made philosophies that they love so much into the church because it's so much easier (they think) than learning to hear and follow the Spirit.
Joseph Smith wrote:There has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge and a pumpkin for a beetle.

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Robin Hood
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by Robin Hood »

samizdat wrote:People would go to cemeteries to get names for baptisms...common occurrence especially in the 90s...
That's called baptism for the dead, and we do it all the time.

EmmaLee
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by EmmaLee »

Think of the damage done with everyone involved in this fiasco. All of the people who know about this - the police, the locals, these young children and their whole entire families (which are usually quite large and extended in Mexico), everyone who has read the news reports, etc. - so in other words, a LOT of people - will now look down on the Church and the missionaries and will not be friendly to them or listen to the message, etc. Many of these people may fight AGAINST the church now.

So no, these four missionaries (and possibly their mission leaders - we don't know for sure that they were pressured - it may have just been the idiocy of the 4 missionaries) were NOT "serving the Lord", nor were they "devoted" to Him or the gospel, by doing this. They did far more damage than good, and it's utterly baffling why anyone would want to try and sugarcoat it.

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jbalm
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by jbalm »

They're just kids. They'll grow up.

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ajax
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by ajax »

18 yr olds.

Baseball baptisms.

Stuff happens.

EmmaLee
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by EmmaLee »

Gotta love it when the ones who normally dis all things related to the current LDS Church, are the ones making excuses for and defending the irresponsible, damaging deeds of four LDS missionaries. Only on LDSFF (where 2 Nephi 15 has come to roost). :))

By the way, they could easily be as old as 26. We had a missionary in our ward a couple years ago who got permission to serve a mission at the age of 28, so saying these 4 are just stupid 18 year old kids may, or may not, be the case. ;)

Anyway, carry on... :ymhug:

kennyhs
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by kennyhs »

Cast the first stone? Not me. The atonement is a central part of our religion, God knew we would make serious mistakes, He didn't call us idiots or stupid, instead He sent Jesus Christ to atone and pay the price for our sins.

EmmaLee
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by EmmaLee »

That's true - he didn't call people 'idiots' or 'stupid' - instead, Christ used these words to describe people and their idiotic, stupid, and sinful behavior -

Dogs, pigs, fools, blind guides, murderers, evil, adulterous, serpents and snakes, children of the DEVIL, fox [JACKAL], HYPOCRITES, FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES, stiff-necked, unclean, workers of INIQUITY, etc. Not to mention words spoken through His Prophets - WHORES, harlots, and DUMB DOGS, etc.

Thank goodness we can all repent.

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ajax
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by ajax »

EmmaLee wrote:Gotta love it when the ones who normally dis all things related to the current LDS Church, are the ones making excuses for and defending the irresponsible, damaging deeds of four LDS missionaries. Only on LDSFF (where 2 Nephi 15 has come to roost). :))
It's tough placing people in neat little boxes.

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ajax
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by ajax »

EmmaLee wrote:That's true - he didn't call people 'idiots' or 'stupid' - instead, Christ used these words to describe people and their idiotic, stupid, and sinful behavior -

Dogs, pigs, fools, blind guides, murderers, evil, adulterous, serpents and snakes, children of the DEVIL, fox [JACKAL], HYPOCRITES, FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES, stiff-necked, unclean, workers of INIQUITY, etc. Not to mention words spoken through His Prophets - WHORES, harlots, and DUMB DOGS, etc.

Thank goodness we can all repent.
Most of it he reserved for those in authority.

EmmaLee
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by EmmaLee »

There you go being disingenuous (or maybe hypocritical is a better word?) again. You've done your fair share, so, yeah.

EmmaLee
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Re: 4 Mormon Missionaries Relocated After Trying To Baptize Boys Without Parental Consent

Post by EmmaLee »

ajax wrote:
EmmaLee wrote:That's true - he didn't call people 'idiots' or 'stupid' - instead, Christ used these words to describe people and their idiotic, stupid, and sinful behavior -

Dogs, pigs, fools, blind guides, murderers, evil, adulterous, serpents and snakes, children of the DEVIL, fox [JACKAL], HYPOCRITES, FULL OF DEAD MEN’S BONES, stiff-necked, unclean, workers of INIQUITY, etc. Not to mention words spoken through His Prophets - WHORES, harlots, and DUMB DOGS, etc.

Thank goodness we can all repent.
Most of it he reserved for those in authority.
Okay, and??? Missionaries have all kinds of authority over the people they baptize. But thank you - because I'm pretty sure it was you who brought this to my attention awhile back - all the harsh words Jesus used to describe people.

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