Need recommendations for battling energy healers

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bethany
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by bethany »

David13 wrote:
bethany wrote:
David13 wrote:Usually the whole energy healing program is in some way tied, in addition to Satan, to some money making scheme. Where basically, you are parted with your money.
dc
So do religions. As if God needs a mall and million dollar condos.

And God could definitely use more level headed ppl, less ppl resorting to pharmaceutical chemicals to hold their emotions together, more peace w one another, more respect and reverence for self, family, nature, earth, life in general.

None of which can the "energy healers" provide.
BTW God doesn't have a mall and a million dollar condo. The church does. Along with a lot of Tabernacles, Temples and Meeting houses, and more.
And they have all that because it's up to the church what they have and do. If you want to start your own church, you can do that, and then have or not have whatever you want.
We all need and use money. There is nothing wrong with that. But that is one of the motives for the "energy healers".
The church, and most all of us answer to a higher power.
What, you have a chip on your shoulder. along with a lot of the others against the church?
dc

.
It appears money is only pure when dispensed thru the church. My energy healer works her tail off for me. I pay her far less than she is worth. I personally don't charge for my work and I've assisted hundreds. But they get what I'm working on and I don't do individual counseling.

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Magus
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Magus »

David13:

There is such a thing as color therapy and it does work.

I forget the disease, but there's some disease baby's can get and part of the treatment is to bathe them in blue light - not any other color but blue. Somehow it helps.

I'm unaware of energy healing or astrology ever being fads, per se. Maybe they have ups and downs in the public mind, but they're pretty timeless philosophies and they aren't going to go away.

bethany
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by bethany »

By the way most ppl have a mortgage, bills for cars and education, etc. I imagine energy healers do also. It's arrogant to think they have an obligation to spend hours counseling someone to heal them. Somewhere I think there is a misunderstanding as to what an energy healer actually does. You confuse a person perhaps fasting for a day or two and walking in and spending 30 min to an hour and leaving. Energy healing is done in sessions and layers. There may be 12 hours spent rooting out the cause of an abusive relationship. Those layers come up when that person is capable of dealing w it. You don't always have control of when that happens. Perhaps 10 other issues have to be moved before you come to understand why all your relationships end on the same note. Why do you always pick an abusive partner? Why do you draw toxic ppl into your path? Why do ppl you hire see a patsy and rip you off? Why does this person have a will to die? These things are embedded over generations and become anchored. But you don't simply pull the entire issue off in one session. They are tied to many things and will come up when your body/mind/spirit feel safe enough to let it go. Stop comparing energy healing to priesthood healings. They are not the same thing. Compare it to counseling sessions.

From my own experience (2 family members trying reg counseling) energy healing was by far more effective. My child was told after a year of counseling that her problem was her faith and oppressive parents who followed that faith. She was simply left confused and worse off. Yes, this was after multiple attempts to use priesthood and counseling w bishops. After a year of energy sessions she had a greater understanding of how to create boundaries for relationships. Not all modalities are equal, nor are all practitioners the same.

SAME W PRIESTHOOD. not all are created equal. You are the consumer, you are the one responsible for picking what works for you. Lumping them all together and labeling them the same is ignorance.

Yes, a person doing energy is entitled to be paid. But don't fall for the garbage of ppl charging 500 for a session and pretending they are somehow magically worth that. Be reasonable.

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Magus
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Magus »

bethany:

So the psychological counseling from a "professional" just lead to your child being told to leave the Church, but the energy healing actually found the real issues and addressed those specifically. That's interesting. I have a good friend who also was repeatedly misdiagnosed by psychologists/psychiatrists and went through a whole bunch of different pills that had terrible side-effects on him...at one time, he lost all inhibitions for a long time, which lead to some really poor decisions, and on another pill, he became completely suicidal and very near killed himself. By no means am I trying to undermine the psychology/psychiatry profession - but I think that people are a lot more willing to overlook the negative side of it than they are willing to overlook the negative side of energy healing - simply because it's what is accepted in our society as the norm. Somehow, people are more willing to take pills that can mess with your brain than attempt something natural and holistic, but effective.

My mother had a shrink for awhile who started trying to get into past life regression with her and reincarnation and stuff. Some other weird stuff happened too. I think he was probably dabbling into the New Agey area, but was not at all experienced with it. She stopped seeing him. One could walk away from that experience and condemn anything that might be associated with so-called "New Age" stuff like energy healing, but that would be closed minded in itself. Truth has to be mined and looked for, and techniques have to be refined to a point of finesse. And although they call energy healing "New Age," there isn't anything new about it, it's as old as anything. You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

JohnnyL
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

David13 wrote:
bethany wrote:
David13 wrote:Usually the whole energy healing program is in some way tied, in addition to Satan, to some money making scheme. Where basically, you are parted with your money.
dc
So do religions. As if God needs a mall and million dollar condos.

And God could definitely use more level headed ppl, less ppl resorting to pharmaceutical chemicals to hold their emotions together, more peace w one another, more respect and reverence for self, family, nature, earth, life in general.
None of which can the "energy healers" provide.
All of which energy healers can provide.
You know, this is an old thread. I thought energy healing was "out" "passe" these days. Kind of like how "astrology" fell by the wayside long ago. Remember that?
Polls show more and more Western people are using alternative medicine, including energy healing.

bethany
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by bethany »

Magus wrote:David13:

There is such a thing as color therapy and it does work.

I forget the disease, but there's some disease baby's can get and part of the treatment is to bathe them in blue light - not any other color but blue. Somehow it helps.

I'm unaware of energy healing or astrology ever being fads, per se. Maybe they have ups and downs in the public mind, but they're pretty timeless philosophies and they aren't going to go away.
Are you talking about jaundice on the children?

As far as color therapy, colors are the light we emit or receive when we express or receive qualities. Love is pink. When I called in the love of Heavenly Father, my friend saw a magnificent coral pink flood in. Later I saw another another friend who had eyes to see and she immediately remarked on the beautiful coral pink color in the aura.

Peace is green. A person who stays in joy will not contract infections because the bug requires negativity. Joy is the best repellant for attack energy. Bathing a person in color therapy is the same as infusing them w the quality that the color represents. I'm not a strong visualizer, more of a vocalizer so rather than seeing a color flood in, I call in a quality that will displace the opposite thing.

When someone sees the colors contained in an aura, they are simply seeing the qualities that person has cultivated.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rose Garden »

Jaundice is cured just by any light. I don't know what disease magnus is talking about. I have heard of color therapy, though, where you wear different colored glasses. I don't know much about it, though.

CameronEmery
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by CameronEmery »

Energy healers are just like drugs.. there are good ones and bad ones. there are things that are necessary and things that are unnecessary.. I might not be able to explain it. but I can tell you that Energy healing WORKS. and we don't hold it above the power of the priesthood. it is simply another method God gave us for blessing eachother. we are ALL energy healers... energy is simply positive or negative physical feelings. when you give someone a hug, you are adding spiritual feelings to their heart and blessing them with increased energy! think about what we could do if we touched eachother more! not just when we are saying goodbye or hello... but to believe in eachother, feel comfortable with eachother, and HEAL eachother through physical touch. i might not understand it, but i had an SIGNIFICANTLY LIFE blessing experience at church when i asked a lady to touch me on the belly and heal my negative emotions i had been having in the pit of my stomach... i had been praying about it for months and i didnt know what it was.. so she felt my belly from behind and told me that she had the impression i needed to eat less gluten. she said "you had waffles this morning didn't you?" and i hesitantly said "yes." she said. "no more of that!" and so i have been staying off gluten and the bad feeling has GONE AWAY! it might not be the power of God, unless you consider medicine to also be the power of God, but it works. and it has been a miracle in my life to know that there is a reason i feel things around me and that one day i will be able to act on the energy and not let the energy act on me. in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

MelRay
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by MelRay »

There is truth in all things. Read this post. Yes there is much to be said about most of the folks you can find. If you pray for yourself to know you will. Energy healing in and of itself is not inherently incorrect. It is how it is used that defines which category it falls under.

http://progressiveprophetess.blogspot.c ... s.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MelRay

plainness
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by plainness »

Battling energy healers? Don't do that! Heal them! Heal the energy healers. Speak prophetic words of knowledge and favor and redemption over them! Touch them and say the name of Christ and call them beloved. Break the occult intruige off of them with the brilliance of Christ's love. For heaven's sake, provoke them to holy jealousy by being miraculous.

There is no doctrine to convinvce them with, just manifest the Kingdom. They're no more dangerous than an LDS dogmatist thumping his friends and neighbors with the floppy stick of Mormon curriculum.

Does a flashlight fear the dark? Does a running hose fear to fall into a mud puddle?

This is why Satan laughs. Because we think he's scary. If we can't heal energy healers, how are we going to heal people who have HIV or Cerbral Palsy? Or diabetes? Or cancer? Or depression?

plainness
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by plainness »

We generally excel at excusing ourselves from the true miraculous exploits of believers. This is why we court energy healers. Because we're so lame in the realm of faith that we walk right into dim flames like moths, just because someone has mystical permission for something supernatural. Somehow, we think our religion will provide us with God's power. Instead of just going straight to Him to be filled with Light.

DesertWonderer
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by DesertWonderer »

http://skepdic.com/energy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
energy (New Age)

In physics, the basic idea of energy is the capacity of a physical system to do "work," the product of a force times the distance through which that force acts. In physics, energy is a term to express the power to move things, either potential or actual. Energy is not a thing itself, but an attribute of something (Krieg).

New Age spiritualism has co-opted some of the language of physics, including the language of quantum mechanics, in its quest to make ancient metaphysics sound like respectable science. The New Age preaches enhancing your vital energy, tapping into the subtle energy of the universe, or manipulating your biofield so that you can be happy, fulfilled, successful, and lovable, and so life can be meaningful, significant, and endless. The New Age promises you the power to heal the sick and create reality according to your will, as if you were a god.

Of course, New Age energy has nothing to do with mechanics, electricity, or the nuclei of atoms: the stuff of physics. There are no ergs, joules, electron-volts, calories, or foot-pounds in New Age subtle energy, which will remain forever outside the bounds of scientific control or study. New Age energy expresses itself in terms like chi, prana, or orgone energy. New Age energy isn't measurable by any validated scientific instrument, though quack New Age energy machines abound that claim to do everything from aligning the vibrations of your cells to reading the digital frequencies of allergens to curing your cancer. All these machines are useless variations of the 1920s radionics device of Albert Abrams, "the quack of the century." They are based on the false belief that illness reveals itself in "energy fields" that can be measured and manipulated for health by some magical device. Generally, these devices are sold with the promise that they can cure multiple diseases, such as cancer and AIDS. All are aimed at vulnerable clients desperate for anything that promises hope. Newer models are likely to invoke quantum physics to attract the scientifically ignorant. There will be, of course, many satisfied customers of such devices, thanks to the widespread ignorance of placebo and false placebo effects.

In addition to the quack energy healing devices, another attempt at making New Age energy medicine appear scientific is occurring at the University of Arizona. Under the influence of Gary Schwartz, U of A has set up what it calls a "Center for Frontier Medicine in Biofield Science." Don't hold your breath waiting for any grand discoveries, but do be concerned that this bogus field has been given research funds by our National Institutes of Health. At least one manufacturer of a quack energy healing device has made reference to the NIH grant to Schwartz to legitimize its product. In promoting its Advanced Bio-Photon Analyzer, EMR Labs, LLC, claims that the NIH adopted a new term – biofield – in 1994 "to describe a growing body of research showing a subtle field that permeates and extends beyond the physical body."*

Energy medicine grew in part out of vitalism, a theory that has been dead in the West for over a century. New Age quackery, however, often maintains that the older a theory is the more one should have faith in it. Energy healers, in fact, resemble faith healers, but they've replaced religious jargon with New Age energy jargon. Energy healers claim that health depends on "unblocking," "harmonizing," "unifying," "tuning," "aligning," "balancing," "channeling," or otherwise manipulating subtle energy.

Few things are more intimidating to the non-scientist than modern physics. Even an educated person has difficulty comprehending the most basic claims made about the entities and possible entities of the sub-atomic world, not to mention the exotic claims about entities and possible entities at the edges of the universe. Even the concepts of "sub-atomic" and "edge of the universe" boggle the mind. Perhaps it is because of the obscurity and inaccessibility of modern physics that many uneducated people scoff at science and find solace in fundamentalist religious interpretations of the origin and nature of the universe.

Another response to the seemingly transcendental nature of concepts in modern physics has been to interpret those concepts in terms of ancient metaphysical doctrines popular for thousands of years in exotic places (to the Western mind) such as India and China. This notion of a "harmony" between ancient metaphysics and modern physics is attractive to those who accept science but still have spiritual longings and who reject the Christian sects they were raised in. Believing in this notion of "harmony" between the ancient East and the modern West has the virtue of allowing one to avoid appearing to be an imbecile who rejects science in order to accept religion. As such, it shares in common at least one trait with "scientific creationism": it re-creates science in its own image for its own purposes. Science is the handmaiden of Religion and Metaphysics, as Philosophy had been for Theology in the Middle Ages.

Acting much like nuclear accelerators on atoms, the New Age theorists smash concepts into bits, only the bits are interfered with in ways Heisenberg never foresaw. We may as well talk about "alternative" physics; for, what they have done to the concepts of modern physics is to refashion them into a metaphysics with its own technology and product line. Nothing demonstrates this more clearly than the New Age conception of "energy."

Some healers claim they can feel the energy of these elusive and ineluctable biofields, vibrations, auras, or rays. Therapeutic touch (TT) practitioners make this claim. Twenty-one practitioners, who knew from much experience that they could feel the energy around the bodies of patients, were tested. They had never been tested, however, in a situation where they could not see the source of the alleged "energy field." Nine-year-old Emily Rosa tested these energy healers to see if they could feel her life energy when they could not see its source. The test was very simple and seems to clearly indicate that the subjects could not detect the life energy of the little girl’s hands when placed near theirs. They had a 50% chance of being right in each test, yet they correctly located Emily's hand only 44% of the time in 280 trials. If they can’t detect the energy, how can they manipulate or transfer it? What are they detecting? Most likely they are detecting what has been suggested to them by those who taught them this practice. Their feelings of energy detection appear to be manufactured in their own minds. Dr. Dolores Krieger, one of the creators of TT, has been offered $1,000,000 by James Randi to demonstrate that she, or anyone else for that matter, can detect the human energy field. So far, Dr. Krieger has not been tested.

See also acupuncture (for a breakdown of the differences between placebo and false placebo effects), aura therapy, chakra, crystal power, e-meter, frontier medicine, Kirlian photography, magical thinking, placebo effect, Q-Ray, Q-Link, radionics, sham acupuncture, therapeutic touch , vibrational medicine, the New Age page of links, Energy Healing: Looking in All the Wrong Places and my review of the "documentary" Something Unknown is Doing We Don't Know What.

further reading

reader comments

books

McCoy, Bob. Quack! : Tales of Medical Fraud from the Museum of Questionable Medical Devices (Santa Monica Press, 2000).

Randi, James. An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural (N.Y.: St. Martin's Press, 1995).

websites & blogs

Why the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) Should Be Defunded by Wallace I. Sampson, M.D.

What's the harm?

Human Energy Fields? by Eric Krieg

Reality Check: The Energy Fields of Life by Victor Stenger

Rife Device Marketers Convicted by Stephen Barrett, M.D.

Biophysics and the E-Meter by Chris Schafmeister

Why woo wins by R. T. Carroll

Q-Ray Bracelet Marketed with Preposterous Claims (2004) by Stephen Barrett, M.D.

The Gentle Wind Project

news

Spread of illegal devices causes alarm

Public never warned about dangerous device

DesertWonderer
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by DesertWonderer »

http://skepdic.com/nelson_bradley.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Bradley NelsonBradley Nelson is a chiropractor and craniopath who calls himself a "renowned holistic physician and lecturer" and calls his special secrets of healing "the Emotion Code" and "the Body Code." He bases his healing methods on an eclectic union of energy healing, Kirlian photography, applied kinesiology, magnet therapy, and a belief that the unconscious mind records everything one ever experiences and is the key to perfect health and happiness. Like many other healers whose imaginations seem to be their main driving force, Nelson believes there is only one cause and one cure for all illnesses.

Nelson claims to have gained his healing knowledge from a "higher power" through some sort of silent prayer. He begins his webinars and healing sessions with 15 seconds of silence to invoke the help of something "upstairs." He claims his healing crosses many borders. He can heal depression, relationships, and bodies--all with one magical system that can take place in just a few minutes and can be done at a distance.

Here is what you can do with Nelson's Body Code:

Feel more emotionally connected with others than ever before!

Experience the lightness of releasing your trapped emotional baggage.

Be empowered to communicate with your own subconscious.

Learn the hottest techniques to tap into your own internal computer!

Acquire amazing tools to help your friends and loved ones!

Discover the unseen causes of illness most doctors aren't aware of.

Internalize and practice healing methods known only to a few.

Discern your real health challenge and know what to do about it now!

Learn to communicate with and heal your animals and pets!

I'm pretty sure that my doctor doesn't know how to use magnets or his subconscious mind to heal pets or "release trapped emotions."

Many of Nelson's claims are preposterous. For example, he claims that we inherit trapped emotions from parents and ancestors and that the subconscious stores every detail of every experience we've ever had. Even so, some preposterous claims may resonate with many broken-hearted people:

Perhaps the most important discovery that Dr. Nelson has made is that trapped emotional energies will often gather around the heart, creating a "Heart-Wall" that may block you from giving and receiving love freely.

If he were speaking metaphorically, I think I'd agree with him but I'd have to point out that this isn't a scoop. But Nelson means it literally. Energy is not a metaphor. It is literally surrounding the heart, which apparently is the literal seat of giving and receiving love. To which one can only say: Nelson, you should take some lessons in anatomy, physiology, and neurology to learn more about the emotions and the chemicals involved in feelings.

Some of Nelson's claims are popular myths among the "holistic," anti-scientific medicine crowd. For example, he passes on the tale that has been a favorite among this crowd for many years that prescription drugs are the third leading cause of death. For those who care, this is a lie. Bradley's contribution to the lie is to claim that normal use of prescription drugs is the third leading cause of death in the U.S. The Centers for Disease Control--a much better source than Nelson Bradley--report that in 2007 the number three cause of death in the U.S. was stroke with 135,952 deaths. Number one was heart disease with 616,067 deaths and number two was cancer with 562,875.

I don't doubt that Nelson has some satisfied customers and can whip up a frenzied page of testimonials should he so desire, but his healing methods are not based on solid science. I would be a bit suspicious of anyone who claims he knows something the entire scientific community has missed. Anyway, there is no reason to believe that energy healing of any kind is anything but placebo medicine. There is no justification for belief in muscle testing (applied kinesiology) as valid for anything. Kirlian photography does not prove energy fields exist around all living things. There is no evidence that magnets can "untrap emotions," whatever that might mean. All in all, I would have to say that if you seek treatment from Nelson, you are a believer in faith healing. Anyway, I wouldn't see a chiropractor for emotional problems. Make sure you read his disclaimer:

The statements on this website have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. The products found within are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent diseases. Nothing on this website is intended to diagnose, treat or cure any physical or medical conditions. If you have a physical or medical condition, you should seek the advice of your medical professional immediately.



See also acupuncture (for more on an energy medicine that is placebo medicine and for a breakdown of the differences between placebo and false placebo effects), Kirlian photography, magical thinking, placebo effect, therapeutic touch, vibrational medicine, the New Age page of links, Energy Healing: Looking in All the Wrong Places and my review of the "documentary" Something Unknown is Doing We Don't Know What.

further reading

reader comments

websites

Reality Check: The Energy Fields of Life by Victor Stenger

Human Energy Fields? by Eric Krieg

Why woo wins by R. T. Carroll

Last updated 12-Sep-2015

Mcox
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Mcox »

Thank you desert wanderer! This is awesome information.

DesertWonderer
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by DesertWonderer »

Mcox wrote:Thank you desert wanderer! This is awesome information.
U R welcome.

This scripture is also applicable as it pretty much describes what "energy healers" do. No wonder The Church warned us against it:

When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet [prophetic of Jesus Christ] from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken. (Deuteronomy 18:9-15)

zionminded
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Posts: 1438

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by zionminded »

DesertWonderer wrote:
Mcox wrote:Thank you desert wanderer! This is awesome information.
U R welcome.

This scripture is also applicable as it pretty much describes what "energy healers" do. No wonder The Church warned us against it:

When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do. The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet [prophetic of Jesus Christ] from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken. (Deuteronomy 18:9-15)
Didn't Joseph smith receive the Book of Mormon by virtue of a seer stone, spoke with the dead, and more? He was fairly active in what we would consider occult modalities by today's standard.

Mcox
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Posts: 309

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Mcox »

You are confusing God's power with satans power. It mimics so closely Gods power that it is very hard to discern. Priesthood is a big hint.

JohnnyL
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Posts: 9831

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

While we're at wwwskepdic.com...

"gods*

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." --Albert Einstein*

A god is a being created by humans and given supernatural powers or attributes such as immortality, omniscience, telekinesis, and invisibility. These creations serve many purposes, such as imaginary protection from enemies or explanations for the origin of such things as good and evil, fire and wind, or life and death.

Gods are often the central figures around which religions are built. It is often claimed that religion began in fear and superstition. The same might be said for gods.

Some religions maintain that there is just one god and that all the gods of all religions except theirs were created by human beings. Yet, everyone who believes in a god of some sort believes their god is real.

Since gods are supernatural, they exist outside the bounds and laws of space and time. They can possess any of an infinite array of magical powers. Hence, there is no way to prove or disprove their reality. One might say: If gods exist, anything goes!"

and

"The Resurrection

The Resurrection refers to the alleged coming back to life of Jesus of Nazareth (or was it Bethlehem?) after he had been executed by crucifixion about 2,000 years ago. It is the keystone of Christianity.

As a child, I was taught the story that an omnipotent, omniscient, all-good creator kindly sent his son, who was one with the creator and with the holy ghost, to redeem mankind for the original sin committed by Adam and Eve. This god/man was crucified by the Romans in order to save mankind from eternity without the creator. Three days after he was buried, the story goes, Jesus rose from the dead.

As a child, I believed this story and many others like it. All the adults I came in contact with seemed to think it was true and that believing it was essential to my salvation. I didn't really understand what "my salvation" was but even as a child I knew it was better than "the eternal torments of hellfire."

I grew up and studied these and many other philosophical and religious matters in a context where I was not required to believe in order to avoid being ostracized. I eventually even taught courses in world religions, where one should learn that stories of supernatural feats like rising from the dead are rather mundane.1 I now consider these stories to be preposterous propaganda. Gods and holy men who die and rise after being crucified or drowning in a river or whatever are fabrications. That people make up such stories is easy to understand and forgive. That people believe them and take them as literal truths is harder to forgive. That parents indoctrinate their children with such stories and punish their children with threats of damnation and isolation if they question their parents' beliefs is unforgivable.

I wouldn't bother with posting an entry on this subject had I not been challenged to do so by someone who probably thinks of himself as a good Christian on the road to salvation and who thinks of me as being on the road to perdition. (I confess that in my youth I thought of myself as saved and felt pity for those who were not as fortunate as I was, having been born into a Catholic family. Eventually, I met Protestants, Jews, atheists, and other non-Catholics and discovered things were not exactly as I had been taught.) Here is the missive from "Tim":

I find it cowardly to overlook the resurrection in your otherwise complete outline of skepticism on everything else skeptical, But without it, you've completely wasted your time. Which is a shame because to you, after you're dead, you believe you have none.

There is no other skeptical topic that succeeds the greatness of the Resurrection. Perhaps it is the 500 + witnesses or the many documents, the historical evidence or you're just afraid of battling Christian scholars. Personally, I think you're just another fake atheist...true skeptics search until they find belief, because there is no other answer.

Actually, the reason I haven't posted this entry before now is that I didn't see any need to. The Resurrection is just one of thousands of religious myths that deserve to be covered in a comprehensive take-down of religions. Though I am an atheist, I don't consider The Skeptic's Dictionary to be an anti-religious website. As far as I'm concerned, if you and a billion other people want to believe in crucified gods and resurrected deities or prophets, go ahead. There are billions who believe in other gods and other resurrections and equally preposterous stories. Let them. As long as they don't try to force their beliefs on the rest of us or try to harm us or their children, let them believe in peace."

So, how does that sound like--a reliable, good source? Lol.
Hmm... Sounds like you believe in something false, and need to repent. ;)

zionminded
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Posts: 1438

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by zionminded »

Mcox wrote:You are confusing God's power with satans power. It mimics so closely Gods power that it is very hard to discern. Priesthood is a big hint.
Which is why by their fruits ye shall know them. According to the scriptures the fruits of the spirit are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Most energy workers I know of, yield those results.

DesertWonderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1178

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by DesertWonderer »

zionminded wrote:
Mcox wrote:You are confusing God's power with satans power. It mimics so closely Gods power that it is very hard to discern. Priesthood is a big hint.
Which is why by their fruits ye shall know them. According to the scriptures the fruits of the spirit are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Most energy workers I know of, yield those results.
You forgot to include communicating with familiar spirits, selling "snake oil" most people would call that fraud, teaching and leading people down "strange paths"...

zionminded
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1438

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by zionminded »

DesertWonderer wrote:
zionminded wrote:
Mcox wrote:You are confusing God's power with satans power. It mimics so closely Gods power that it is very hard to discern. Priesthood is a big hint.
Which is why by their fruits ye shall know them. According to the scriptures the fruits of the spirit are: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Most energy workers I know of, yield those results.
You forgot to include communicating with familiar spirits, selling "snake oil" most people would call that fraud, teaching and leading people down "strange paths"...
Strange paths.. like Polygamy?

Mcox
captain of 100
Posts: 309

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Mcox »

A Facebook friend said that a letter was read over the pulpit yesterday warning against the practice of energy healing. This person lives in the Brigham city area. Is this true? Was it a letter from the first presidency or a letter from the Stake? I would love more information.

JohnnyL
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 9831

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

Not here. Our letter was about Temple and Family History Consultants.

However, there is a letter (it's in the handbook now, basically) about "things", but energy healing is not specified. Since it was came out before energy healing was anywhere big or known, and the examples they gave were about different things, it wasn't about energy healing, but it COULD/ MIGHT be applicable to certain kinds of energy healing/ emotional healing.

At least, that's my guess.

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Mark
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Mark »


DesertWonderer
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1178

Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by DesertWonderer »

Very good opinion piece...

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php? ... 2021236368

Yesterday, Someone posted a message with some questions about my position on energy healing on this page and ,before I got the opportunity to respond, the message was deleted. I decided to write my response here and hope that whomever sent the message has the opportunity to read this response.
First of all, my argument against energy healing, including the emotion code/body code, has nothing to do with charging money. So I won't even form an argument for or against energy healing based on money even if it is offered for free. Nor do i feel that medical Doctors are best. I have issues also with medical doctors who over prescribe pharmaceuticals. I rarely, if ever, see a medical Doctor and prefer natural approaches to healing like herbs, plants, eating a diet high in fruits and vegetables, and exercise. So to weigh the pros of energy healing against the cons of pharmaceuticals and the Doctors that prescribe them is a mute point. There is no comparison in my opinion.
With that said, my argument against energy healing is that i believe it to be a counterfeit. I also believe that Satan has the ability to manipulate the human energy field in order to deceive us. Let me explain.
Do our bodies have an energetic system? Yes all living things do. Joseph Smith taught that energy is simply "the self-activating capacity of intelligences and what we call energy is the manifestation of these intelligences following patterns and laws which have been set up for them at their level of existence. In other words, our bodies energetic field exists because intelligence that makes up our bodies act according to the laws given to them by God. Energy is the manifestation of this intelligence that make up our spirit body obeying God. The more these intelligences obey the greater the energy.
The scriptures define intelligence as light and truth. Light and truth is Christ and His word. The scriptures also teach us that Intelligence is governed by laws.
Given the scriptural understanding that intelligence is governed by law, is there a law or principle that an energy healer uses to "allow" them to manipulate, control, or use the energy of these intelligences to heal? The answer: No such law or principle exists!!
An energy healer would answer that question by saying "It's Quantum physics". oh, really?? How does an energy healer use quantum physics to heal or to tap into the bodies energy field? What formula are they applying? What classes on quantum physics have they taken? Can they explain how quantum physics even works? The short answer is NO! They do not take classes on quantum physics. They can not explain quantum physics. Why? Because quantum physics is not a law that governs energy. It is only a theory that has never been proven.
You said yourself that you don't really understand how energy healing works. If you don't understand how energy healing works how are you using it to heal people? Do you believe that you are getting help with the assistance of spirits? Do you believe you are just a conduit for the healing power of the Savior? If you answered yes to those questions than energy healing is not just quantum physics. It is a spiritual method of healing. Spiritual healing involving the assistance of spirits and without the Priesthood of God is a counterfeit. It is the very method used by Satan.
Many times an energy healer will compare energy healing to electricity. They will say "I can't explain electricity but I know it works". My response: Well would you hire an electrician to wire your house that didn't understand how electricity worked? Would you trust him to turn on power to your home if he said "I am not the one doing the work I am just a conduit for an unseen force that connects your power". I surely would not! The fact is electricians can explain how electricity works. They do follow the laws and principles that allow them to connect electricity.
You stated that you have seen energy healing heal people. Yes i believe you have. There are only two spiritual forces in the universe God and Satan. Satan mimics the power of God and can perform many mighty miracles. The magicians in Pharaoh's court duplicated some of the miracles Moses produced through the power of God. (Exodus 7-8). We are warned in the scriptures that a person without authority will use the name of Christ to work what may seem to be miracles. Jesus warned against these deceptive miracles in the last days. He said, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible they shall deceive the very elect". (Matthew 24:24).
Moving on to muscle testing.
The scriptures teach that we receive answers to prayer to our hearts and minds. The Holy Ghost does not speak to our muscles. Muscle testing gives you "yes and no" answers much like a Ouija board. You ask questions, and your hand moves around the board to different letters spelling out an answer. What power is moving your hand around the board? What power is used while muscle testing? I believe it is the same power. Even if you pray before muscle testing, does not make it from God. He does not speak to us with yes and no answers through our muscles.
Now does this mean i don't believe in the Gift of healing or the ministering of angels? I absolutely believe in the gift of healing and in the ministering of angels. I believe the scriptures teach us the pattern by which we can obtain the gift of healing and the ministering of angels.
Many who hold the priesthood have the Gift of Healing. Others may be given the knowledge on how to cure or treat an illness.
The gift of healing is a gift from the Spirit. Gifts of the Spirit are received through the Holy Ghost.
Where do energy workers receive this “gift of healing” if it is not through the Spirit? Generally, an energy worker has to receive training through a paid mentor or teacher.
In the New Testament, Simon, a Samaritan sorcerer who had been baptized by Philip, saw Peter and John exercising priesthood authority and supposed he could purchase this authority. In the Book of Acts 8:17-21, we learn that the gifts of the Spirit cannot be purchased with money.
Doctrines and Covenants 46:19-20
“And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed; And to others it is given to have faith to heal.
We can all exercise faith to be healed when we are sick or afflicted. Doctrine and Covenants 42:48 says: “And again, it shall come to pass that he that hath faith in me to be healed, and is not appointed unto death, shall be healed.
The manifestation of faith is obedience to the laws upon which the desired blessing is predicated. “There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of the world, upon which all blessings are predicated- And when we obtain blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated”.
The blessing of healing is predicated upon the faithful who follow the Lord’s established pattern for healing which is: Faith, Prayer, Priesthood, the use of herbs and mild food and God’s Will.
A woman who has the gift of healing has to use great faith to seek out and understand how to use herbs and mild food. She has to have faith in the Holy Priesthood of God in order to call upon a worthy priesthood holder to administer to her and her family. This is what is meant by the gift of healing.
She also has to have faith to pray to God for the ministering of angels with the understanding that angels only administer By God's command and not our own command. (Moroni 7;29-30 )
I hope my explanation helps. If you or anyone else reading this post has any further questions please leave a comment. I will do my best to answer them.

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