Need recommendations for battling energy healers

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nvr
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by nvr »

It seems that the theory underlying energy healing is an exploitation of some unseen underlying healing mechanism. The question is is this simply some yet-unknown physiological phenomenon, or is it supposed to be the same supernatural mechanism under which healings from the priesthood operate?
If it is a physiological phenomenon, isn't there some research somewhere people can bring up to demonstrate its effectiveness and mechanism of action? That would certainly clear the air for a lot of those that are apprehensive about the concept.
If it operates through other means, though, then it is safe to say it is either through one supernatural power or another.
Read John A. Widtsoe's lessons to Cleon Skousen to see how the Lord's will is carried out in healing. The section recounting the story of the Lord turning Moses' hand leprose and then whole again is relevant. http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =14&t=2601. The priesthood was given us so that we could worthily use it to carry out His will. He wants to keep us from harm and for us to be healthy and happy. When we receive a blessing through the priesthood this is, in effect, given as though from the Lord Himself. Why would anyone, having that available, turn to other sources?

JohnnyL
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

nvr wrote:It seems that the theory underlying energy healing is an exploitation of some unseen underlying healing mechanism. The question is is this simply some yet-unknown physiological phenomenon, or is it supposed to be the same supernatural mechanism under which healings from the priesthood operate?
If it is a physiological phenomenon, isn't there some research somewhere people can bring up to demonstrate its effectiveness and mechanism of action? That would certainly clear the air for a lot of those that are apprehensive about the concept.
If it operates through other means, though, then it is safe to say it is either through one supernatural power or another.
Read John A. Widtsoe's lessons to Cleon Skousen to see how the Lord's will is carried out in healing. The section recounting the story of the Lord turning Moses' hand leprose and then whole again is relevant. http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =14&t=2601. The priesthood was given us so that we could worthily use it to carry out His will. He wants to keep us from harm and for us to be healthy and happy. When we receive a blessing through the priesthood this is, in effect, given as though from the Lord Himself. Why would anyone, having that available, turn to other sources?
Do those "other sources" include nurses, dentists, doctors, chiropractors, etc.?
Why are these people in the church? Should they be considered apostate?
Are their knowledge and powers from Satan?
Are there two supernatural powers?

If you would like more info on EFT, here, from peakstates.com:
"EFT eliminates symptoms by affecting the trauma string structures in the primary cells (the stuck gene, the messenger RNA (mRNA) and its ribosomes) directly. This is in contrast to WHH or TIR, which actually change the trauma moment and hence, indirectly, the ribosomal gateway structure. The way EFT does this is tricky: we found that the meridian points on the head, chest and fingers cause the ribosomes on the mRNA string to shrink and disappear. This quickly eliminates the symptoms in most cases, because the symptoms were from the content of those gateway structures superimposed on the body image. If the tapping is continued, even after there were no symptoms, more and more of the ribosomes on the chain shrink, until eventually the mRNA chain itself shrinks back to the nucleus, and then the gene histone heals. To get a visual image of this effect, imagine that you are watching a time-lapse movie, running backwards, of a plant sprouting. The leaves shrink back into the stem, the stem shortens, and then the whole thing goes back into the dirt, and “pop”, the seed is gone. This is similar to what is happening in the primary cell.
           
This process is the reason why EFT could be reversed. What we found is that the shrunken ribosome would plump right back out from the mRNA string, like a balloon blowing up, when we used our dying-feeling trick. And presto! the trauma symptoms would be back. And in fact, this trick would often make the trauma worse than it was originally – apparently the organism had some self-healing that occurs to try and minimize the problem. Thus, if the original mRNA string was still present in any form whatsoever, the entire trauma string could be recreated every time.
           
However, we found something different with the nine-gamut and karate chop points (and to a lesser extent, the fingers, especially the thumb and forefinger). Tapping these affects the gene directly. In the case of the nine-gamut point, the effect goes powerfully upwards into the mRNA string, affecting everything simultaneously, and so is quickly noticeable to the client. Unfortunately, from an experiential viewpoint, the other hand points primarily affect the gene, and so it usually feels like nothing is happening until the gene heals fully. This is because the trauma string remains intact until the gene heals and retracts; whereupon the mRNA string is released out of the nuclear pore and quickly dissolves. When this happens, all of the symptoms suddenly vanish (assuming there weren’t multiple roots to the trauma still holding the string in place, of course). We also found that tapping on the fingers helped eliminate body associations and other psychological reversal issues that could block the EFT process.
 
To review, the head and body points start healing from the ribosome and then heal down to the gene (by analogy, down from the leaves to the root); the nine-gamut, karate chop and to a lesser extent the fingers start from the gene and go up to the ribosome (up from the root to the leaves). The nine-gamut is a bit of an oddball – it focuses on the gene, but simultaneously affects the ribosomes and mRNA string."

JohnnyL
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

Current science, in addition to other things.

Look at the Tiller Foundation material. You'll see that thought affects physical reality, and thoughts can actually be stored.

http://www.tillerfoundation.com/model.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Psychoenergetic Science involves the expansion of traditional science to include human consciousness and human intention as capable of significantly affecting both the properties of materials (non-living and living) and what we call "physical reality." For the last four hundred years, an unstated assumption of science is that such a thing is impossible. However, our experimental research of the past decade shows that, for today's world and under the right conditions, this assumption is no longer correct. We have discovered that it is possible to make a significant change in the properties of a material substance by consciously holding a clear intention to do so. For example, we have repeatedly been able to change the acid/alkaline balance (pH) in a vessel of water either up or down, without adding chemicals to the water, merely by creating an intention to do so. While this is very exciting - even more exciting is the fact that we have been able to use a simple electronic device to "store" a specific intention within its electric circuit... "

http://www.tillerfoundation.com/newpapers.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Get a decent TFT/ EFT book, you'll find quite a bit about "how" and "why".

Meridians? Obviously there, can be tested and shown, proven with injected dye, etc.

There's actually so much stuff on all this...

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Thinker
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Thinker »

Johnny,
Thanks for interesting information I look forward to reading more about.
Gideon wrote:I am looking for a definition of a human energy system that is based in science. Why? Because they claim that it has nothing to do with religion, which leaves only science.
Gideon, there's a difference between spirituality and religion. Just as we are all human beings, but differ in race/ethnicity, we are all spiritual, but differ in how we practice or express spirituality (ie religion, meditation, etc.).
"God is no respector of persons." God is like the sun, which doesn't pick and choose to shine only for Muslims or Mormons, but shines for and loves ALL!

Why do you separate science and religion? Don't you believe that God created everything?
"There is no true religion without true sceince, and consequently there is no true science without true religion." - Brigham Young
"It is the business of man to find the spiritual meaning of earthly things." -John A. Widstoe

Although, spirituality and science are both of God and truth, the spirit cannot be scientifically studied, because it works on God's terms, not on our "scientifically CONTROLLED" terms.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
This definition of faith reminds me of dark energy - which is not evil/dark - but rather it's called dark because it's invisible but known by the evidence of its influence - and is considered to permeate everything, including us!

Another consideration I find interesting, when attempting to harmonize science and spirituality is Gottfried Leibniz's (who helped invent formulas for Calculus and the binary system/internet) take on the essence of everything...
"These simple substances (monads) must be immaterial and have no extension, neither parts, nor divisibility. Now, where there are no constituent parts there is possible neither extension, nor form, nor divisibility. These monads are the true atoms of nature, and in fact, the elements of things... Now this interconnection, relationship, or this adaptation of all things to each particular one, and of each one to all the rest, brings it about that every simple substance has relations which express all the others and that it is consequently a perpetual mirror of the universe."
It's a little mind-boggling, but IMO, very inspiring to consider! :)

nvr
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by nvr »

Glanced over the sites but I still am not seeing a simple physiological mechanism for how energy healing is proposed to work. Is the scientific method being followed anywhere? "To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning." For energy healing and any other psycho-energetics method there would need to be studies that isolate the mechanisms of action down to one or more measurable factors.
The link I gave earlier describes how the Lord accomplishes His will with His creations. Intelligences and elements make up the whole of all things created. His mechanism of action is that even inanimate material bears the knowledge of His creation and owes its existence to Him so that when He commands, these elements obey and rearrange or reorganize according to His direction. When the priesthood is exercised in line with His will, the power to command the very elements is on tap.

If there is no physiological explanation for energy healing, it can only mean it is being attempted by appeals to one spiritual force or another.
The priesthood is the authority to act in the stead of God - it is the same power that will command elements, separate oceans and raise the dead. God freely offers the power to heal through the priesthood. He would not mask it in esoteric means. If there is no discernible factor that can be attributed to energy healing, the only reasonable conclusion left is that any power manifested would not be God's but the Adversary's.

bethany
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by bethany »

NVR... energy work does not require your permission nor belief in order to work. All this stuff about priesthood as if it holds the keys to everything & life just collapses without it & that does not refer to God's priesthood & power of command... the Earth has functioned & lived along with miraculous healings for thousands of years.... people were miraculously healed & lives spared for the entire period between his death & the deconstruction of his church until it was restored.

Love is the one quality that trumps everything. Everybody on the planet has the capacity to love. As a child of God, everyone... with or without the priesthood has the capacity to love in purity & perfection & the ability to call on the powers of heaven. EVERYONE. I spent 5 years practicing & learning about sacrifice & fasting & healing. I once fasted for an acquaintance who was in tremendous pain & she was healed as result of that fast of an intense hatred of her mother whom she once attempted to kill by running over her in a car. She wanted nothing to do with God because of the abusive life she had & she was agnostic. The hatred & anger were purged immediately. Today through energy healing I remove that type of energy everyday in minutes.

Dr. Emoto conducted studies regarding water molecules in which he used words to influence them & then photographed them. The molecules that were subjected to 'love' were magnificent & those that were subjected to hate, etc. were distorted. He also did this with microwave energy that distorted/mutated molecules, but then he wrote the word 'love' on the container & the molecules were protected from the negative energy & held their structure.

bethany
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by bethany »

The BOM recipe for discovering truth is true in all fields of study. I'll stick with that one as it has served me well thus far. This sounds like a 'where's the magic plates now' kind of argument. If I could only touch them....

bethany
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by bethany »

nvr wrote: When we receive a blessing through the priesthood this is, in effect, given as though from the Lord Himself. Why would anyone, having that available, turn to other sources?
Had priesthood holders held the understanding & comprehension & ability to bless & heal the parties that I was associated with & trying to find relief for their issue, I would have NEVER known that energy healing existed. I find that most people who turn to energy did so because of this reason. However, the energy workers (since there are those that are offended by the word healers) were able to do what many priesthood holders did not do when they were asked, invited, & implored to respond...

I am not trying to be antagonistic about this subject, but even the title of this thread is nothing but 'bait' into a 'battle'... yes there are energy workers that straddle the fence or work for the other side... but I can point out just as many priesthood holders that straddle the fence or have planted themselves on the wrong side.

katmr
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by katmr »

[quote="nvr"]Glanced over the sites but I still am not seeing a simple physiological mechanism for how energy healing is proposed to work. Is the scientific method being followed anywhere? "To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning." For energy healing and any other psycho-energetics method there would need to be studies that isolate the mechanisms of action down to one or more measurable factors.
The link I gave earlier describes how the Lord accomplishes His will with His creations. Intelligences and elements make up the whole of all things created. His mechanism of action is that even inanimate material bears the knowledge of His creation and owes its existence to Him so that when He commands, these elements obey and rearrange or reorganize according to His direction. When the priesthood is exercised in line with His will, the power to command the very elements is on tap.

If there is no physiological explanation for energy healing, it can only mean it is being attempted by appeals to one spiritual force or another.
The priesthood is the authority to act in the stead of God - it is the same power that will command elements, separate oceans and raise the dead. God freely offers the power to heal through the priesthood. He would not mask it in esoteric means. If there is no discernible factor that can be attributed to energy healing, the only reasonable conclusion left is that any power manifested would not be God's but the Adversary's.

I agree with this. The priesthood is God's power directly and I don't think there is anything more powerful than that. I think that possibly there are too many saints in need of healing for many reasons and that we are plagued with a lack of power in the Priesthood. I think there are too many that hold the authority but lack the power (for various reasons) for the many healings that are needed and as a result people are turning to energy healings instead. My personal opinion though I realize it may not be popular. :)

JohnnyL
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

nvr wrote:Glanced over the sites but I still am not seeing a simple physiological mechanism for how energy healing is proposed to work. Is the scientific method being followed anywhere? "To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning." For energy healing and any other psycho-energetics method there would need to be studies that isolate the mechanisms of action down to one or more measurable factors.
The link I gave earlier describes how the Lord accomplishes His will with His creations. Intelligences and elements make up the whole of all things created. His mechanism of action is that even inanimate material bears the knowledge of His creation and owes its existence to Him so that when He commands, these elements obey and rearrange or reorganize according to His direction. When the priesthood is exercised in line with His will, the power to command the very elements is on tap.

If there is no physiological explanation for energy healing, it can only mean it is being attempted by appeals to one spiritual force or another.
The priesthood is the authority to act in the stead of God - it is the same power that will command elements, separate oceans and raise the dead. God freely offers the power to heal through the priesthood. He would not mask it in esoteric means. If there is no discernible factor that can be attributed to energy healing, the only reasonable conclusion left is that any power manifested would not be God's but the Adversary's.
Here, but sorry, a glance won't be enough. There's plenty of info I gave you, but again, "a glance" won't do.
http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/hyal ... thesis.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tell me about magnetism? gravity? electricity? Do you seriously understand any of it? Most scientists don't. Does that mean they're from Satan? Anything we can't explain or understand is from Satan?

What do you really want, NVR?

You'll probably find your answer with "quantum entanglement" and "information transfer", like with this:
http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080813/ ... .1038.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nvr
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by nvr »

"It's all about the Photons!!"
[yet to be proven, but it is a stimulating possibility to consider]
http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/hyal ... thesis.htm

I have a bachelors of science in mechanical engineering - I understand Newtonian physics and relativity, electrical engineering, chemistry and biology. I also understand the theory behind the electric universe and agree how that model better fits planetary and celestial data.

It does appear human bodies contain various electrolytes. Perhaps also there is an underlying model following the accupuncture meridians. But this is admittedly conjecture.
This Hyaluronic Acid model would explain why energy and information can flow in the body along lines known as acupuncture meridians, but channels have not been found on dissection of the body.

You can not reliably derive a therapy based on an undefined model. If there is no definable body system model how can one say they are exploiting the system for effect and not simply inducing a placebo effect? The scientific process has not been followed to show the efficacy of this therapy in any of the links provided.

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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Thinker »

nvr wrote:If there is no physiological explanation for energy healing, it can only mean it is being attempted by appeals to one spiritual force or another.
I see several ways of looking at this.
Consider the placebo effect - scientific evidence that "as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he."

Yet, I also see that there must be moderation in all (good) things and, IMO, that suggests balance.
I have met several people who seem fixated on divination tools, like card reading etc, for others... and I have yet to meet one that is psychologically healthy.
No offense is meant by this & I acknowledge I may be making assumptions based on my limited experience.
Still, I believe that to heal one, one must be in a state of mind that is more healthy, in order to lift another up.
I believe that psychological (mental) well-being is inseparably connected with spiritual well-being.

Maybe I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder because I've been hurt by people claiming to be all about "healing."
I see so much ignor-ance, when they pretend to be gurus.
I love what my friend said in response to people searching for gurus or prophets... "There's nobody here but us chickens." :D

Still, I do believe in energy work & I have met some who do energy work in spiritually uplifting ways - not charging for it, but acting as a funnel from God/Love. That is inspiring & hopeful. It reminds me also of FAITH... "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Some things like faith in goals, cannot be scientifically proved. We don't do much without some degree of faith. Still, I would never put my complete trust in any imperfect human being. We need each other - to learn & love - but God should be our god.

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LesliePOV
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by LesliePOV »

Hey Thinker I like your quotes and interpretations there... only one that I think I have a problem with: 'Moderation in all things' That one has me puzzled. I hear Mormons that love that one. Moderation in some things would be better I guess, cuz if ya had moderation in ALL things now you by definition have moderation in SOME things. Because ya gots ta reign back on the idea of moderating ALL things being as how that's just not, well, MODERATE anymore! Ya with me cuz? More ain't ALWAYS better but sometimes it is.... Like having more love, more righteousness... more sex(?) now that last one especially is one thing that could use LESS moderating, if ya know whudda mean Vern?

I also think that some things are more important, on 'balance' than others... but this is where priorities are the determining factor. so moderation does not apply,,, just priorities....same with 'balance' I think.

So: "Moderation in the appropriate 'things'" ?

The idea of Moderation is especially popular when LDS propose this idea of 'balance' and 'compromise' that is so often thoughtlessly tossed about in church classes. Something is either a correct principle or it's not. If it is correct, don't 'moderate it' That would be a corruption of a true thing. In other words, If a version 'a' says thus and version 'b' says this other thing then the truth of the debate in question is probably somewhere between the 'thus' and the 'this other thing'.... What would be the 'moderate' way to settle it? take a vote? Nah this is the Hegelian dialectic of Thesis, Antithesis and Syn-thesis...

Nah, a thing is either a correct principle or it is not.


yeah, Moderation is okay but only moderately so... (-|

Moderation in ALL things? Really? Maybe this is just the PC way of assuring the world that we are not extremists?

But rather we are all 'moderates'. As in; we have been properly 'moderated'?

Rand
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Rand »

nvr wrote:Glanced over the sites but I still am not seeing a simple physiological mechanism for how energy healing is proposed to work. Is the scientific method being followed anywhere?
NVR, it seems to me that there is no system of health care that follows the scientific method. Medicine cloaks itself in the claim of being scientific. But the reality the practice of medicine is not scientific in any way. Each patient is a new, unpredictable experience and the practice of medicine, as applied to each patient, is an art.

Energy Medicine is a broad category. It covers a very broad spectrum of modalities, many of which I would never try to explain or support. I like the theory of Acupuncture. Traditional Chinese Medicine does you one better than following the Scientific Method, they follow eternal principles in the development and practice of their art: namely "opposition in all things". They call it Yin and Yang. If you are really interested in finding an answer to your question, look there. It has a 4000 year history, massive amounts of research, and my personal experience after having used it as a practitioner for over 25 years has been amazing. Not only is it helpful, but it is remarkably safe.

By the way, a random question, would the Gospel hold up under the scrutiny of the Scientific Method?

nvr
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by nvr »

From what I understand, proponents of energy healing claim it is not based on faith, i.e. it is not a miraculous healing from God that is occurring. I understand the place of faith in life - I can not see God, but I have faith that He exists and act in faith to follow what I believe He has revealed through the prophets, scriptures and revelation.

Given that energy healing is a strictly scientific phenomenon, shouldn't there be concrete reports of its effects? Doesn't it seem like we should understand the basis for a medical procedure before we try it on ourselves. If some believe it is faith-based, do they not wonder why there is not any mention of these methods in the scriptures?

Medically speaking,energy healing has not been shown to have a basis for how it is supposed to work. How is waving an acrylic wand with an eye painted on it about peoples' heads possibly going to have any effect on a their internal biology other than a placebo effect? This treatment would be very easy to set up a study for in order to test its effect vs placebo. Why hasn't anyone done this?

Modern medicine does follow the scientific method - the problem is the drug companies have made it all about treating symptoms (which they do, successfully) and not about healing patients. Diet, including properly prepared nutrient rich foods, trace minerals, no artificials and lifestyle would keep most people out of the Dr.'s office.

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Thinker
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

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LesliePOV wrote:Hey Thinker I like your quotes and interpretations there... only one that I think I have a problem with: 'Moderation in all things' That one has me puzzled. I hear Mormons that love that one. Moderation in some things would be better I guess, cuz if ya had moderation in ALL things now you by definition have moderation in SOME things. Because ya gots ta reign back on the idea of moderating ALL things being as how that's just not, well, MODERATE anymore! Ya with me cuz?
You're missing an important part of my quote, Dear Leslie (or would you rather be called Cuz or Vern?)... :D
I wrote...
Thinker wrote:Yet, I also see that there must be moderation in all (good) things and, IMO, that suggests balance.
I acknowledged that GOOD things are to be in moderation, suggesting balance.
It should be obvious that there must NOT be moderation in drinking poison, for example, or other things that even in a tiny degree, cause harm.
But that which is brought to extreme excess, even that which is deemed "good" - could be a vice.
If you spent all day reading the scriptures or gave all of your money to the poor, meanwhile neglecting your responsibilities - that is not of God.

The only exception to this, is love. But that is God - which is all-inclusive & often involves paradox, not cognitive distortions like bi-polar (all or nothing) thinking.

You wrote...
LesliePOV wrote:Nah, a thing is either a correct principle or it is not.
One of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt not kill" - this is a principle, that can be applied in many circumstances.

Have you ever killed a spider and felt justified in doing so?
If you have, you have lived as if the principle was NOT 100% correct.
So, by your bi-polar cognitive distorted reasoning, since that principle is not correct, we SHOULD kill every chance we get.
Illogical. In fact one of the main logical fallacies is called, "All or Nothing" aka "Epistemic/Evidential Fallacy."
LesliePOV wrote: More ain't ALWAYS better but sometimes it is.... Like having more love, more righteousness... more sex(?) now that last one especially is one thing that could use LESS moderating, if ya know whudda mean Vern?
Well, you seem to be implying that you would like more sex. Maybe your husband or wife or wives... may be glad to have that more... or maybe not.
Maybe you could convince bill collectors that becoming a ninphomaniac is more important than paying bills.
LesliePOV wrote:I also think that some things are more important, on 'balance' than others... but this is where priorities are the determining factor. so moderation does not apply,,, just priorities....same with 'balance' I think.

So: "Moderation in the appropriate 'things'" ?
Again, if you had READ what I wrote, then you might have not needed to continue on attempting to copy an 80's rapper or Vern-fan, as you have. ;)

JohnnyL
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

 How Do You Prove Muscle-Testing Medicine Works?

One primary criticism against forms of muscle testing is the absence of double-blind placebo-controlled trials. However, the conclusion of the largest retrospective study published on muscle testing showed that there is worldwide agreement that applied kinesiology is a reproducible and reliable scientific method. (Scott C Cuthbert and George J Goodheart Jr, Chiropractic & Osteopathy 2007,15:4 doi:10.1186/1746-1340-15-4).

In addition, there are double-blinded studies, published in the International Journal of Acupuncture and Electro-therapeutics Research, which also verify the validity and reliability of muscle testing.

It’s also important to realize that double-blinded study is a philosophical model developed to study the effect of one particular biochemical compound. (That’s the only variable that’s introduced in the patient’s system during testing.) Hence, double-blind study is not suitable to prove or disprove energetic phenomena, or to be applied in areas of physics, which the area that muscle testing belongs to.

Interestingly enough, the only form of study that is appropriate for muscle testing is the outcome study. And Total Body Modification repeatedly produces fantastic outcome of treatment.  (excerpted from Dr. Mercola's website.)

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LesliePOV
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by LesliePOV »

JohnnyL wrote: How Do You Prove Muscle-Testing Medicine Works?

One primary criticism against forms of muscle testing is the absence of double-blind placebo-controlled trials. However, the conclusion of the largest retrospective study published on muscle testing showed that there is worldwide agreement that applied kinesiology is a reproducible and reliable scientific method. (Scott C Cuthbert and George J Goodheart Jr, Chiropractic & Osteopathy 2007,15:4 doi:10.1186/1746-1340-15-4).

In addition, there are double-blinded studies, published in the International Journal of Acupuncture and Electro-therapeutics Research, which also verify the validity and reliability of muscle testing.

It’s also important to realize that double-blinded study is a philosophical model developed to study the effect of one particular biochemical compound. (That’s the only variable that’s introduced in the patient’s system during testing.) Hence, double-blind study is not suitable to prove or disprove energetic phenomena, or to be applied in areas of physics, which the area that muscle testing belongs to.

Interestingly enough, the only form of study that is appropriate for muscle testing is the outcome study. And Total Body Modification repeatedly produces fantastic outcome of treatment.  (excerpted from Dr. Mercola's website.)
I can only say that I have a chiropractor who is EXPERT in APPLIED KINESEOLOGY. He is maybe the best chiro I have ever been to. I am hardly a cripple but I have had vertebral maintenance issues for about 20 yrs now... I need to get regular tune ups. and work out enough to prevent injuries (like rotator cuff from handling large ladders overhead) and keep the cramps, knots and nerve impingements to a minimum. Using this system of applied kineseology he finds the exact joint/ nerve / vertebral issues and sometimes the actual order to adjust.

Impressively efficient... He is not a Reiki or Chi Gong or Acupuncture / Herbalist practitioner but I have also had good results from those as well. As I stated before, my problem with some/many of these types is that they are often rather New Age which philosophically comes bundled with ample Anti-Christian attitude. almost a counter religion... but there is definitely something there... My chiro can test for energy blockage / deficiency related to things non-skeletal as well... a sober well-studied man in his 60;s I guess

Tcrale
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Tcrale »

I'm not going to get into it ar all because this thread
Just looks messy but one thing I should say is people should hearken to the spirit of god before banishing away energy healing immediately. I say this because many people who are battling this are doing it out of fear and fear cometh not of god. I mean look at the inquisitors- destroying many out of fear, doctors themselves heal and dont always do it from god, and people also forgot there are many lying and decieving spirits out in the worldand can mimic the "spirit" per say.
Nonetheless more then anything listen to your heart and spirit and let god guide you. Pray to know the truth and be open- being guided not by fear- but god- for as the scriptures say every good thing cometh of god or a good source. The devil cant create a good gift- only mimic it. Listen to your heart, pray to know the truths god would have you know, and read the scriptures.
God speaketh to the heart- I wish you all luck in your journey of this life and may god be with you all.

kathedralegs
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by kathedralegs »

Tcrale wrote:I'm not going to get into it ar all because this thread
Just looks messy but one thing I should say is people should hearken to the spirit of god before banishing away energy healing immediately. I say this because many people who are battling this are doing it out of fear and fear cometh not of god. I mean look at the inquisitors- destroying many out of fear, doctors themselves heal and dont always do it from god, and people also forgot there are many lying and decieving spirits out in the worldand can mimic the "spirit" per say.
Nonetheless more then anything listen to your heart and spirit and let god guide you. Pray to know the truth and be open- being guided not by fear- but god- for as the scriptures say every good thing cometh of god or a good source. The devil cant create a good gift- only mimic it. Listen to your heart, pray to know the truths god would have you know, and read the scriptures.
God speaketh to the heart- I wish you all luck in your journey of this life and may god be with you all.
This thread has always been a little difficult for me, thus my fear to wade in. You expressed my thoughts very well. Thank you.

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Magus
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Magus »

Hey guys, I'm a member of the Church, I just joined the forum, and in fact I just found it while googling for different LDS perspectives on chakra meditation. I haven't taken the time to read every post in this thread, but I wanted to add my two cents....

Utterly condemning chakra meditation and so-called "energy healing," without looking into it and studying it yourself but just kind of suspiciously skimming information on it, is the same as it would be if someone totally rejected Christianity because there are many sects that have false teachings, and they don't bother to study it for themselves and try and figure out what parts are true and what parts aren't.

Frankly, it isn't fair-minded.

Hear me out.

It is a teaching of the Church that God has given a portion of his Light and Truth to all peoples. This is specifically said in Preach My Gospel. I don't interpret that as simply meaning "God has given everyone a conscience," because I feel that would then be a very superficial and hollow statement. I interpret that as meaning actual divine Truth and Light that was found by people who earnestly sought it.

Just as apostasy has crept into the Truth and Light given to the West, (as it did in Judaism and Christianity), it's only logical to presume that the same thing happened in the East with what portions of Truth and Light they obtained. Such is the nature of fallen humanity.

The modern New Age movement is just a large conglomeration of multi-cultural teachings woven together by people trying to make sense of them. It will contain both truth and falsehood. The question is, is that truth worth trying to obtain for a member of the Church?

In answer to that question, consider this: Joseph Smith was a student of the Kabbalah and a 33rd Degree Freemason. He also dabbled in folk magic in his youth using stones to attempt to locate treasure or other things. So obviously, he had an appreciation for finding truth through study and experimentation using the Holy Spirit as a guide. And as a matter of fact, it was through Freemasonry that Joseph was placed in a position to receive the inspiration that lead to the restoration of the temple endowment we have today. But during the same era, there were also plenty of people who went around saying that Freemasonry was of the devil, and they in fact even formed an Anti-Mason party. They weren't open to receiving anything other than what they had heard.

No doubt the same lot probably weren't open to the Book of Mormon either. "A Bible, a Bible, we need no more Bible." And so to them, the Book of Mormon was of the devil.

Consider also the words of Brigham Young - (and I'm paraphrasing) that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church, and as such, it embraces all Truth, and all Truth belongs to it, because all Truth is God's.

Consider how the Apocrypha is not part of the standard works, but in the D&C it says that there are both many truths and many falsehoods in it, yet nevertheless, "whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom." (D&C 91)

So this answers the question - that yes, Truth is worth mining, wherever it can be found. And of course, as always, us the Holy Ghost as a guide in separating Truth from Error.

Much has been said in this thread about how energy healing talks about reincarnation, remembering past lives, using spirit guides, etc, etc, etc. Yes, there are people into energy healing who believe in that stuff. But do you honestly think every single person involved in energy healing believes in those aspects? They don't. I can tell you that faithful Mormons who believe in it and/or practice it do not believe in those aspects of it. So why is this even a part of the discussion? They do not believe that energy healing is or should be a substitute for the priesthood, either. So you're assigning apostate characteristics to people who are not apostate, but have simply found the good in a therapeutic practice that some will label "spiritual" and others might just label "good mental health."

Allow me to share with you a few experiences.

I have suffered from long-term clinical depression in my time. At one point, I was diagnosed with dysthymia, which is a mild mood disorder in which everything seems like shades of grey. For people with that disorder, it tends to be harder for them to find things to be happy about in life and due to that, those people are more prone to developing serious depression. Anxiety and other disorders also run in my family, and I've had my share of difficulties with anxiety as well.

I have never taken medication for any of this. I've refused to. I've just dealt with it on my own.

I discovered one day, when I could not quiet my mind, a music and binural beats on youtube for a root chakra meditation. I thought it might help calm me down. I had no idea what a chakra was. I listened to it for an hour in the early morning when everyone else was asleep. The effects were immediate and powerful. For the next three days, something had changed in my mind. I felt "grounded." I felt more comfortable in my own skin. More secure. More laid back and prone to having faith that things were going to be okay and that everything is good. It was a profound change.

I have meditated on the Third Eye chakra using binural beats. After a half hour or so of doing it, I experienced a sense of opening in my forehead (which by the way is where the chakra is supposed to be located) and a greater sense of awareness and appreciation for the world around me.

Today, I experimented with meditation on the Crown chakra. This is the chakra that is said to be most representative of our connection with God. I listened to the meditation music for about a half hour and just decided to let my intuition guide me on what it would make me think and/or feel, so I just made myself open, mentally and spiritually speaking. Words can't do justice to what I experienced, but I can try - in my mind's eye, I was quite suddenly deeply impressed with the vision of Jesus taking me by the hand and lifting me up to his level, as if going up a step to meet him. He then looked into my eyes and placed his hand on my shoulder. I felt his great love, and a profound sense of overwhelming gratitude towards God came over me, driving me to tears. Totally unexpected, extremely powerful. It was a feeling of gratitude towards God just for everything I have and for my very being and existence, and that all I have and all I am, I owe to him and to his love. Hours later, I still can't shake the great feeling of gratitude I feel in my heart towards God, and along with it, an increased desire to be obedient to his will.

Tell me - was this of Satan? Am I being deceived by evil, lying spirits??

I don't believe so - because none of this is leading me away from God or towards carnality, the natural man. On the contrary, it is leading me towards holistic mental health and increased spiritual awareness.

Are chakras literally real? I don't know, maybe.
Was what I experienced solely a mental experience? Some of the experiences, probably, but the rest, I don't know. It's possible it could have triggered a side of my brain that conjured up my testimony and expressed itself to me in that way.
Was what I experienced today the Holy Ghost or just in my head? I don't know - but it was powerful and it was good and it lead me towards God and Christ, and after all all things that lead to Christ are of God. And it's not irrational to consider your spirit, your body and your mind to all influence and affect each other. When you feel the "burning in the bosom" of the Holy Ghost, it is a spiritual burning, but the sensation is almost physical as well. When the Lord speaks to you through the Holy Ghost and your mind is enlightened or deeply impressed, it is through the mental faculties but it is a spiritual impression as well....

All of this is to say, it's worthwhile to be open to discovering new perspectives on truths that are harmonious with the Gospel. Be careful, be discerning, use the Spirit as your guide and realize that just because the Church doesn't emphasize something every week in Sunday School, doesn't mean that it isn't true and of great benefit to know and experience. All Truth is God's and belongs to the Church, what the Church does best is just emphasizing the crucial basics each week. We have trouble enough with the basics as it is. But for those who are ready and willing, by all means, seek out gems of Truth wherever they can be found, in the hills and amongst the weeds. Joseph Smith did, and many yet still do and greatly benefit.

JohnnyL
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by JohnnyL »

Magus wrote:I discovered one day, when I could not quiet my mind, a music and binural beats on youtube for a root chakra meditation.
Which one, if you don't mind my asking?

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Magus
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Magus »

JohnnyL wrote:
Magus wrote:I discovered one day, when I could not quiet my mind, a music and binural beats on youtube for a root chakra meditation.
Which one, if you don't mind my asking?
There are lots of good ones I've discovered since, all different and can be chosen according to preference - but this is the one that I stumbled upon and that opened me up to the whole world of chakra meditation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x48pk_oyTSA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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David13
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by David13 »

Usually the whole energy healing program is in some way tied, in addition to Satan, to some money making scheme. Where basically, you are parted with your money.
dc

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Magus
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Re: Need recommendations for battling energy healers

Post by Magus »

Well there you have it.

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