Presidency of the Seventy letter to affirm LDS/BSA Relationship

[pjbrownie]

There is a letter coming from the Presidency of the Seventy (Elder Juan A. Uceda) to leaders of the the Church in North America reaffirming the commitment to the BSA including supporting the annual Friends of Scouting drive. It was read to me in a staff meeting this week.

Predictions of the demise of the BSA/LDS relationship seem to fall short once again.

[DesertWonderer2]

Well, that's just disappointing.

[pjbrownie]

Why? When Joseph F Smith partnered with the Boy Scouts, it was a relationship that helped to normalize the Church. It has brought in lots of converts and done lots of good will with this partnership.

I think most people don't like the logistics of the relationship, the mountain of paperwork, the endless meetings, the fundraising drives. There's room to improve those things. It's already gotten simpler with dropping Varsity and Venturing. Now YM leaders only have to worry about the Eagle.

[gardener4life]

How does the church determine the 70s can do their own notices separate from the apostles? It seems like this could be confusing.

[pjbrownie]

This is the Presidency of the Seventy. They answer to the Twelve.

[Sunain]

Well, that's just disappointing.

This is just bad at this point. The church should have taken the opportunity to do their own worldwide youth program that would help Strengthen the Youth and unify them with common moral standings, goals and ideals.

Personally I thought they were just keeping with scouting till President Monson died.

[JohnnyL]

Well, that's just disappointing.

This is just bad at this point. The church should have taken the opportunity to do their own worldwide youth program that would help Strengthen the Youth and unify them with common moral standings, goals and ideals.

Personally I thought they were just keeping with scouting till President Monson died.

Who knows, maybe they're doing it to honor him...

[h_p]

Why? When Joseph F Smith partnered with the Boy Scouts, it was a relationship that helped to normalize the Church. It has brought in lots of converts and done lots of good will with this partnership.

That was when the Boy Scouts had standards and goals that closely aligned with the church. That's no longer the case.

[Craig Johnson]

Keeping the Church in the BSA is not up to the 70s or the Apostles or the Presidents of the Church. Think People - WHO runs this church?
He makes these decisions and we do His bidding. He has His reasons for this that we can only surmise. If He says stick with it we stick with it, if He says get out of it we get out of it. We don't invest ourselves unless He says so. Our leaders do His bidding, it's not up to them - that would be a nightmare.

[Sunain]

Keeping the Church in the BSA is not up to the 70s or the Apostles or the Presidents of the Church. Think People - WHO runs this church?
He makes these decisions and we do His bidding. He has His reasons for this that we can only surmise. If He says stick with it we stick with it, if He says get out of it we get out of it. We don't invest ourselves unless He says so. Our leaders do His bidding, it's not up to them - that would be a nightmare.

Unfortunately, He is not making this decision. That is quite obvious when it's a letter from the Presidency of the Seventy and not the First Presidency or Quorum of the Twelve. This is a policy decision.

If it was a letter like this, then I'd agree with your statement that the Lord wishes to keep the church in scouting, but as it has been pointed out above by h_p, scouting no longer has standards and goals that closely aligned with the church.

[kittycat51]

How much of the Church world wide does this really effect? I mean isn't scouting just done here in the U.S. and in Canada? What about the 10's of thousands of members outside of this scope? How does this benefit them? There is so much emphasis placed on the scouting program. I would much rather see Duty to God be pushed harder than scouting is. I'm so glad my boys are finally all beyond this. Sorry but it's been a thorn in my side for years.

I do however applaud those who love it and have used it for their benefit. As a mother I got tired of pushing my boys to get anything done. It's their choice I figure. Like anything in the gospel I teach and then let them make their own decision. It was never about forcing or me doing everything for them. (cough.. like mother's/father's who actually do Eagle projects)

[Craig Johnson]

To Sunain, does the last letter from the First Presidency say we are sticking with it? If so, that is the current word until they change it. They won't change it until/unless they are told to. That's good enough for me.

[shadow]

Why? When Joseph F Smith partnered with the Boy Scouts, it was a relationship that helped to normalize the Church. It has brought in lots of converts and done lots of good will with this partnership.

That was when the Boy Scouts had standards and goals that closely aligned with the church. That's no longer the case.

I don't like the scouting program, but your statement isn't completely true. The ward scout group teaches and controls the standards. For example, girls aren't allowed neither are known gay scout leaders etc. The Boy Scouts allows us to teach our standards. If that changes, the church would most likely bail.

[Lizzy60]

Why? When Joseph F Smith partnered with the Boy Scouts, it was a relationship that helped to normalize the Church. It has brought in lots of converts and done lots of good will with this partnership.

That was when the Boy Scouts had standards and goals that closely aligned with the church. That's no longer the case.

I don't like the scouting program, but your statement isn't completely true. The ward scout group teaches and controls the standards. For example, girls aren't allowed neither are known gay scout leaders etc. The Boy Scouts allows us to teach our standards. If that changes, the church would most likely bail.

Staying in the BSA, especially collecting money from LDS members through Friends of Scouting, means that the Church will be supporting BSA with millions of dollars, much of it from members who will donate because a letter was signed by a Seventy. The BSA pays their upper executives a huge salary, and supports gay and transgender scout participation. But if someone wants to think this is the Lord's decision, alrighty then.

On another blog, I read posts where members of the Church are saying that we will need to recognize and support gay marriage SOON, because some people are already comparing us to the Westboro Baptist Church, and we will not be able to do missionary work if we are going to continue to be homophobic. That's not my opinion, but it is the opinion of some LDS, and the number continues to grow.

https://wheatandtares.org/2018/01/26/ou ... in-heaven/

[shadow]

Why? When Joseph F Smith partnered with the Boy Scouts, it was a relationship that helped to normalize the Church. It has brought in lots of converts and done lots of good will with this partnership.

That was when the Boy Scouts had standards and goals that closely aligned with the church. That's no longer the case.

I don't like the scouting program, but your statement isn't completely true. The ward scout group teaches and controls the standards. For example, girls aren't allowed neither are known gay scout leaders etc. The Boy Scouts allows us to teach our standards. If that changes, the church would most likely bail.

Staying in the BSA, especially collecting money from LDS members through Friends of Scouting, means that the Church will be supporting BSA with millions of dollars, much of it from members who will donate because a letter was signed by a Seventy. The BSA pays their upper executives a huge salary, and supports gay and transgender scout participation. But if someone wants to think this is the Lord's decision, alrighty then.

I agree with that, I was just noting that because the BSA allows gay leaders and girls doesn't mean that the ward troops have to allow the same. We're free to be contrary to the BSA for now.

I don't support friends of scouting either for the reasons you mentioned.

[Col. Flagg]

The BSA is just as corrupt at the top as is the Red Cross and other 'charities' that take advantage of and abuse/allocate funds for the benefit of a select group of higher-ups calling the shots. When the top execs of the BSA have million dollar homes, you got a BIG problem! The church is also straddling the fence with the BSA... they are trying to appease those members who want out as well as those who think we need to stay the course by dropping the Varsity and Venturing programs while staying with the 8-13 year old groups. And, as much as I hate to say it, most church decisions and policies being announced nowadays occur because the church's lawyers are working feverishly to keep the church out of lawsuits. Yes, it's mostly about money, not morals.

[e-eye2.0]

This letter seemed like a soft sell to me. It seems as the year(s) before it was a hard push where the verbiage of today, "voluntary" appears to be a step back.

As long as the church supports it so do I. When all the issues came out a few years ago I had a distinct impression that the Lord wanted his boys in this program and I support it despite it crumbling it is worth doing. One day we will bow out and I will be ready to move on at a drop of a hat.

[Craig Johnson]

I would prefer that we had nothing to do with the BSA, but I think I kind of get why we have not bowed out yet. Please don't think I am judgmental, but I worked in corrections as a counselor for many years, about 15, and one thing we learned was that homosexuality and pedophilia ALWAYS go hand in hand - i.e. where there is pedophilia there is also homosexuality (not vice versa). To me it is too dangerous to have homosexuals teach any youth, I personally would vote to make it illegal - it just helps the proliferation which at this time is out of control and making many children suffer and grow up confused. I know there are others who will not believe this even among those who have worked corrections, there is always a motivation for this and there are way too many motivations for me to speak to it.

[pjbrownie]

How much of the Church world wide does this really effect? I mean isn't scouting just done here in the U.S. and in Canada? What about the 10's of thousands of members outside of this scope? How does this benefit them? There is so much emphasis placed on the scouting program. I would much rather see Duty to God be pushed harder than scouting is. I'm so glad my boys are finally all beyond this. Sorry but it's been a thorn in my side for years.

I do however applaud those who love it and have used it for their benefit. As a mother I got tired of pushing my boys to get anything done. It's their choice I figure. Like anything in the gospel I teach and then let them make their own decision. It was never about forcing or me doing everything for them. (cough.. like mother's/father's who actually do Eagle projects)

Just so you know the CEO of the National Organization has met with the Church to provide Scouting to all members in the world. I'm not sure how far the negotiations have gone, but it's been proposed.

[pjbrownie]

Why? When Joseph F Smith partnered with the Boy Scouts, it was a relationship that helped to normalize the Church. It has brought in lots of converts and done lots of good will with this partnership.

That was when the Boy Scouts had standards and goals that closely aligned with the church. That's no longer the case.

I don't like the scouting program, but your statement isn't completely true. The ward scout group teaches and controls the standards. For example, girls aren't allowed neither are known gay scout leaders etc. The Boy Scouts allows us to teach our standards. If that changes, the church would most likely bail.

Staying in the BSA, especially collecting money from LDS members through Friends of Scouting, means that the Church will be supporting BSA with millions of dollars, much of it from members who will donate because a letter was signed by a Seventy. The BSA pays their upper executives a huge salary, and supports gay and transgender scout participation. But if someone wants to think this is the Lord's decision, alrighty then.

On another blog, I read posts where members of the Church are saying that we will need to recognize and support gay marriage SOON, because some people are already comparing us to the Westboro Baptist Church, and we will not be able to do missionary work if we are going to continue to be homophobic. That's not my opinion, but it is the opinion of some LDS, and the number continues to grow.

https://wheatandtares.org/2018/01/26/ou ... in-heaven/

BTW, the enormous salaries at the National Office are supported by your tithing dollars, not Friends of Scouting. That goes to pay for your local executives, who make about as much as school teachers.

[pjbrownie]

I would prefer that we had nothing to do with the BSA, but I think I kind of get why we have not bowed out yet. Please don't think I am judgmental, but I worked in corrections as a counselor for many years, about 15, and one thing we learned was that homosexuality and pedophilia ALWAYS go hand in hand - i.e. where there is pedophilia there is also homosexuality (not vice versa). To me it is too dangerous to have homosexuals teach any youth, I personally would vote to make it illegal - it just helps the proliferation which at this time is out of control and making many children suffer and grow up confused. I know there are others who will not believe this even among those who have worked corrections, there is always a motivation for this and there are way too many motivations for me to speak to it.

You have homosexuals in the Church, sir. At least the BSA does background checks. The Church does not. Worthiness interviews don't count.

[pjbrownie]

This letter seemed like a soft sell to me. It seems as the year(s) before it was a hard push where the verbiage of today, "voluntary" appears to be a step back.

As long as the church supports it so do I. When all the issues came out a few years ago I had a distinct impression that the Lord wanted his boys in this program and I support it despite it crumbling it is worth doing. One day we will bow out and I will be ready to move on at a drop of a hat.

The donation push has been voluntary for decades.

[pjbrownie]

Why? When Joseph F Smith partnered with the Boy Scouts, it was a relationship that helped to normalize the Church. It has brought in lots of converts and done lots of good will with this partnership.

That was when the Boy Scouts had standards and goals that closely aligned with the church. That's no longer the case.

So you know:

The Church allowed gay boys before the BSA did
The BSA allows gay leaders as long as they follow behavior standards (which by the way is the same as the Church)
The BSA now allows girls (at least at the younger ages. They've had girls since the 1970's in older programs). Guess what? The Church wanted the girls to be charted with the BSA in the 1920's and 1930's.

The mission of the BSA hasn't changed. Your perception has.

[Craig Johnson]

You have homosexuals in the Church, sir. At least the BSA does background checks. The Church does not. Worthiness interviews don't count.
[/quote]

I don't know how to break this to you but Church Officials actually do background checks.

[h_p]

The Church allowed gay boys before the BSA did
The BSA allows gay leaders as long as they follow behavior standards (which by the way is the same as the Church)
The BSA now allows girls (at least at the younger ages. They've had girls since the 1970's in older programs). Guess what? The Church wanted the girls to be charted with the BSA in the 1920's and 1930's.

The mission of the BSA hasn't changed. Your perception has.

That's not what our leaders were saying in 2015:

However, the admission of openly gay leaders is inconsistent with the doctrines of the Church and what have traditionally been the values of the Boy Scouts of America.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... ng-program

A lot of church members back then were all for leaving the BSA when that statement was made. Now I guess many feel like they need to rewrite history to justify staying with them.