CHURCH NEWS: Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) Statement

[LdsMarco]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has issued the following statement regarding Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA):

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established in 188 nations around the globe. Issues of immigration and legal status are of concern for many of our members. Most of our early Church members emigrated from foreign lands to live, work and worship, blessed by the freedoms and opportunities offered in this great nation.

Immigration is a complex and sometimes divisive issue. As we have stated before, we believe that our first priority is to love and care for one another as Jesus Christ taught. Each nation must determine and administer its policies related to immigration. The Church does not advocate any specific legislative or executive solution. Our hope is that, in whatever solution emerges, there is provision for strengthening families and keeping them together. We also acknowledge that every nation has the right to enforce its laws and secure its borders and that all persons subject to a nation's laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them.

We welcome the sincere efforts of lawmakers and leaders to seek for solutions that honor these principles and extend compassion to those seeking a better life. Specifically, we call upon our national leaders to create policies that provide hope and opportunities for those, sometimes referred to as “Dreamers,” who grew up here from a young age and for whom this country is their home. They have built lives, pursued educational opportunities and been employed for years based on the policies that were in place. These individuals have demonstrated a capacity to serve and contribute positively in our society, and we believe they should be granted the opportunity to continue to do so.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... nuary-2018

[JohnnyL]

So, we have no solution and don't care, but we really want "Dreamers" to stay...

Not a fan of the statement!

[gardener4life]

As we have stated before, we believe that our first priority is to love and care for one another as Jesus Christ taught.

The problem is if you let in someone who is cheating the system. They take away the ability of someone else to care for their families. Every person you let in who is illegal takes a job from someone who is legal. We've seen this over and over. There are whole industries where traditional legal Americans can't even get jobs now because the wage is put low by all the teaser rate illegals...AND the illegals have too much control in those industries.

I wish people would understand that to many of us immigration isn't about racism but about people stealing opportunities from people that were grown and born up here first.

But there's a solution to this too. Developed countries could set up economic zones in the countries that are suffering to make it so they can take care of those countries and raise their standard of living too. The problems in the suffering countries just grow and don't get fixed and that's the real problem with people leaving. Like recently news in Israel was that they had all these illegals from Sudan, Chad, and Africa. We all know those spots have terrible government that's mostly military juntas etc. It would be CHEAPER AND more effective to go setup an economic zone and growth city for development in those countries by the country that is receiving those illegals. They would be able to help MORE people in the process, and create jobs even, instead of have domestic people lose careers to them. All kinds of building, farming, and transportation jobs would be created by setting up economic zones in new developing cities in wartorn or poverty ridden areas.

This would also raise the standard of living within a very short time! (The proof of this is most people don't know it but Mexico already has electricity in over 95% of the country right now. This means it could work, because of the study of how quickly Mexico assimilated technology from its neighbors.) The core issue too is if people just leave the areas they are from then nobody is trying to make those countries better, root out corruption, or raise them up economically. (Think about it...don't we have a scripture about kings and queens raising up the children of Israel on their backs?)

I do see that immigrants are people too. Usually they are very nice people.

What people don't see is that 60% of young adult traditional Americans between 18 and 36 have no career opportunities, and no chance for being able to have a career to support a family anymore. When my dad graduated from college in his field, over 60% of the class would work in their chosen industry, and manage to get a decent salary that could support a spouse and children. Now that same figure is less than 10%. So that means only 10% of people grading with degrees can get a job to support a family. 10% is pretty low. This also isn't entirely the immigration problem though, but is related to it. Some of it was the corporate greed playing immigrant salaries off against traditional salaries and you can't blame the immigrants for that but it's a problem that's here still and won't go away.

I also know someone is going to post that you still can get a good job. But 10% people...that's not many that can. And the low number makes more people with more enmity and more jumping through humps and less patience for people compared to each other. Job longevity is way down.

So I really think the solution is to create and boost economic trade cities by a developed country sponsoring it, in lesser developed countries. There'd be big advantage for this for developed countries too because it could with support (key detail here...with no support there's vulnerability) also create cheaper alternatives for retirees. Also the money would stretch further. And when you get close to retirement age wouldn't you want to be in some foreign country living a better life and exploring another culture?

There's so many new ideas we could use to prevent clashes between immigrants and natives is what I'm trying to show here. People just aren't cooperating with trying to implement them.

I want to reiterate I think there's many wonderful people that aren't traditional Americans. This is a hard issue. We don't want anyone to go without.

[LatterDayLizard]

"Never let a problem to be solved become more important than a person to be loved."

- Pres. Thomas S. Monson

[EmmaLee]

daca.jpg (74.56 KiB) Viewed 2700 times

[Michelle]

I honestly don't know if this matters anymore. Hear me out:

1. I am not fan of those who break the law. I believe those who have done so should be accountable and will be in this life or the next. I remind myself that no one really gets away with anything. Deception is a character flaw that will appear again and prove detrimental to those who cultivate it.

2. I do see instances in history and the scriptures in which people did leave their homelands (or lands of residency) without permission. The pilgrims left without permission, but later received permission to go to America would be one example. Admittedly , there may have been another way if they had been patient, I am not sure.

3. Considering demographic timelines, this may be a non issue soon. Sure, build the wall and enforce our laws because bad guys love opportunity and unlocked doors. But soon, when fertility rates hit certain milestones in people's home countries, history says large groups of immigrants will stop coming in on their own.

4. Our fertility rates are dismal enough at this point that we may soon want the workers, but we will still suffer if those workers don't assimilate to American culture, if that even exists anymore.

5. The time frames I am talking about are within the next decade or two. Perhaps the church, through inspiration, is being directed to welcome those who are coming anyway so that they are not our enemies in the near future. Lose a battle to win the war, and use the principle of supporting families to do so. As nations begin to fall apart, as they seem poised to do in the not too distant future, it may be that keeping families together right now will bear better fruit than the alternative.

But, I could be wrong.

Edit: As far as I can see our entitlement programs are a bigger problem when it comes to immigration reform than our immigration laws. We are dangling carrots and then acting surprised when hungry people bite. End the socialist programs and immigration will take care of itself.

[gardener4life]

So I kind of felt antsy and anxious about this issue after posting initially. I felt like I didn't quite hit it on the mark enough. So I thought I could look in the scriptures to see if there was anything there that could shed insight.

Alma Chapter 28 has insight if you 'translate' a few things.

Alma 28:1,8

1 And now it came to pass that after the people of Ammon were established in the land of Jershon, and a church also established in the land of Jershon, and the armies of the Nephites were set round about the land of Jershon, yea, in all the borders round about the land of Zarahemla; behold the armies of the Lamanites had followed their brethren into the wilderness.

And this verse the modern twist would look like this;

4 And now this was a time that there was a great mourning and lamentation heard throughout all the land, among all the people of Nephi—
5 Yea, the cry of widows mourning for their husbands, and also of fathers mourning for their sons, and the daughter for the brother, yea, the brother for the father; and thus the cry of mourning was heard among all of them, mourning for their kindred who had been put on unemployment, lost jobs, lost their homes to foreclosure, and lost an exceedingly high number of industries, manufacturing, crafting abilities having had them stolen and taken abroad, and ability to support themselves because of the economic war that had come upon them. (OK, so I'm not trying to be sacrilegious or anything. I think the modern twist would look like that. And if you were open minded and really asked people you'd see whole cities devastated by economic problems all over the US. (Some wealthy guy is going to say I'm wrong though because he has many friends helping him with life and a nice family, which not everyone has however.)We don't kill each other right now. But we do kill each other economically. We take each other's jobs and careers, and even take each other's spouses and children. But we're somehow not evil? Hah.)

10 And from the first year to the fifteenth has brought to pass the destruction of many thousand lives; yea, it has brought to pass an awful scene of economic bloodshed.(Slum cities, unemployment, welfare states, living upon the backs of the poor, and nobody finds opportunities except through bribes...)

Now back up just a bit. How did they get to the land of Jershon? An answer with how to deal with this problem is in Chapter 27 of Alma! Isn't this exciting? Verses 24 and 26 have keys to understand why this worked and wasn't problematic like our current welfare recipients.

Chapter 27
The Lord commands Ammon to lead the people of Anti-Nephi-Lehi to safety—Upon meeting Alma, Ammon’s joy exhausts his strength—The Nephites give the Anti-Nephi-Lehies the land of Jershon—They are called the people of Ammon. About 90–77 B.C

21 And it came to pass that the chief judge sent a proclamation throughout all the land, desiring the voice of the people concerning the admitting their brethren, who were the people of Anti-Nephi-Lehi.

22 And it came to pass that the voice of the people came, saying: Behold, we will give up the land of Jershon, which is on the east by the sea, which joins the land Bountiful, which is on the south of the land Bountiful; and this land Jershon is the land which we will give unto our brethren for an inheritance.

23 And behold, we will set our armies between the land Jershon and the land Nephi, that we may protect our brethren in the land Jershon; and this we do for our brethren, on account of their fear to take up arms against their brethren lest they should commit sin; and this their great fear came because of their sore repentance which they had, on account of their many murders and their awful wickedness.
24 And now behold, this will we do unto our brethren, that they may inherit the land Jershon; and we will guard them from their enemies with our armies, on condition that they will give us a portion of their substance to assist us that we may maintain our armies. (They supported the people who were taking them in. Our system isn't doing that. Liberals are bringing them in and they don't pay taxes, social security, etc, and they live off welfare. And they REPLACE existing residents when they take up opportunities. This is the problem! This verse shows a two way relationship. They helped support the Nephites but didn't work against them or lean upon them. They supported them back for help.
25 Now, it came to pass that when Ammon had heard this, he returned to the people of Anti-Nephi-Lehi, and also Alma with him, into the wilderness, where they had pitched their tents, and made known unto them all these things. And Alma also related unto them his conversion, with Ammon and Aaron, and his brethren.
26 And it came to pass that it did cause great joy among them. And they went down into the land of Jershon, and took possession of the land of Jershon; and they were called by the Nephites the people of Ammon; therefore they were distinguished by that name ever after. Whoever came up with this plan was a genius. Notice how they were given land that wasn't putting them in competition with existing residents? They were put in a colonization area where they wouldn't be taking someone else's opportunities but would still receive benefits. This land wasn't too far from some of the other lands, like that of the Zoramites and Antionum,also Bountiful is close by, etc. I can't emphasize this enough how if they receive help it wouldn't be right to have them take someone else's blessings. They also labored with what they could do to help out. Welfare exists and should exist but it should be given to people that aren't able bodied, and are disabled; not people who don't want to help, who are young, or taking someone else's life. (One of the problems with immigration now is people coming in take someone else's social security number etc. if they even bother to take it. And another problem is that minorities that are immigrants in our country hire only their relatives and people of their type, but won't hire people of the country that took them in. So its a predatory system of taking but not giving back.)
27 And they were among the people of Nephi, and also numbered among the people who were of the church of God. And they were also distinguished for their zeal towards God, and also towards men; for they were perfectly honest and upright in all things; and they were firm in the faith of Christ, even unto the end. (They had good works and were honest. They worked and had faith. Not welfare people.)
29 Therefore, they would suffer death in the most aggravating and distressing manner which could be inflicted by their brethren, before they would take the sword or cimeter to smite them. (They were loyal, faithful, true. Not just claiming to be but had works to show that.)
30 And thus they were a zealous and beloved people, a highly favored people of the Lord. (They weren't on welfare)

One of the problems I see is that if you deport a whole bunch of people they will be like the Nephite dissenters that went over to the Lamanites, to 'stir up the Lamanites up to war against the Nephites'. You already have people doing this against Trump in several countries without the help of this group. And this is what they would do. You find references of dissenters causing wars all over the place in the Book of Mormon before the wars hit.

[Juliet]

I don't get this, "The Church does not advocate any specific legislative or executive solution."

It looks like the church practically wrote the legislation let alone advocated it. If they are going to push something at least admit that that is what you are doing.

This reminds me of me." Hey hunnie, I am not advocating you to take out the trash, however; I strongly believe you should think about whether or not you would be so kind to happen to possibly extract the contents of the trash and find a disposable solution for them. I don't want to tell you what to do though...

[gardener4life]

I don't get this, "The Church does not advocate any specific legislative or executive solution."

It looks like the church practically wrote the legislation let alone advocated it. If they are going to push something at least admit that that is what you are doing.

This reminds me of me." Hey hunnie, I am not advocating you to take out the trash, however; I strongly believe you should think about whether or not you would be so kind to happen to possibly extract the contents of the trash and find a disposable solution for them. I don't want to tell you what to do though...

I think they are trying to hint there's more than one way to find a solution without busting up families. They are also saying they aren't trying to favor any particular political party. There really is more than one solution to this problem, provided that a solution is done honestly and with trying to do the least harm. It's about honest intent for someone approaching a solution, or whether they are approaching the problem with hate or anger. (D&C 121:36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness. 37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man. 38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.)

So by bringing this up there's two types of situations that could happen without counting the multiple solutions that could come up. You could have someone with a wicked heart but a right solution. And you could have a right heart but a wicked solution come up.

[LatterDayLizard]

There really is more than one solution to this problem, provided that a solution is done honestly and with trying to do the least harm. It's about honest intent for someone approaching a solution, or whether they are approaching the problem with hate or anger.

Bingo!

This is not about democrats or republicans. These are the philosophies of men. It's not about border walls or amnesty. These are the constructs of men. It's about defending the family. The family is of God. We've clearly been charged to lay aside our philosophical differences and find a way to preserve and protect the family.

Interesting how it seems most "political" statements officially released by the church always come back to preserving the family. Perhaps there is a lesson there for us.

"...we warn that the DISINTEGRATION OF THE FAMILY will bring upon individuals, communities, AND NATIONS the CALAMITIES foretold by ancient and modern prophets."

It's in our national interest to find a humane, pro-family solution. In fact, I believe our safety depends on it.

[marc]

35 Wherefore, I know by this thing which thou hast said, that if the Gentiles have not charity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and take away their talent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly.

36 And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the Gentiles grace, that they might have charity.

37 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: If they have not charity it mattereth not unto thee, thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father.

38 And now I, Moroni, bid farewell unto the Gentiles, yea, and also unto my brethren whom I love, until we shall meet before the judgment-seat of Christ, where all men shall know that my garments are not spotted with your blood.

[EmmaLee]

As far as I can see our entitlement programs are a bigger problem when it comes to immigration reform than our immigration laws. We are dangling carrots and then acting surprised when hungry people bite. End the socialist programs and immigration will take care of itself.

Agreed. Also, fine companies who hire people who are not eligible to work in the US, and arrest the people in charge of these companies for breaking the law. Do that, and end the illegal, immoral entitlement programs - nothing else would be needed.

Charity is not forced - it cannot be forced. ALL welfare and entitlement programs function by FORCE and go against God, agency, freedom, etc. and they do nothing to help families - in fact, they hurt families and individuals. The money used for these programs is stolen from working people and families by force by the government and used for purposes we have zero say in. That in no way, shape, or form, is charity - it is just the opposite, and people who promote these things are promoting Satan's plan. Actual charity is giving freely and gladly, of your own free will and choice, with zero coercion, zero force - and exactly NO ONE is stopping anyone else from doing this, if they so desire. The money stolen by the government from our paychecks and given to others is NOT charity. Also, anyone who is for open borders, but who locks the doors of their own house, or calls the police if someone is in their house stealing their belongings, is a total hypocrite.

[David13]

Having lived in Los Angeles for 44 years I can tell you these people are not assimilating.
They are creating the same 3rd world cesspools that they had in their old country right here.
And not only do they work, but they have been given all the scams to work, and take advantage of all the socialist programs, to supplement their income, and thus are quite able to live quite well.
They think there is nothing wrong with taking something offered to them free.
dc

[Arenera]

35 Wherefore, I know by this thing which thou hast said, that if the Gentiles have not charity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and take away their talent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly.

36 And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the Gentiles grace, that they might have charity.

37 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: If they have not charity it mattereth not unto thee, thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father.

38 And now I, Moroni, bid farewell unto the Gentiles, yea, and also unto my brethren whom I love, until we shall meet before the judgment-seat of Christ, where all men shall know that my garments are not spotted with your blood.

Good post marc.

Today is the great power of the USA. We can travel from sea to shining sea. Our motto is a 5 letter word: Greed. Hugh Nibley said the sin that Sodom and Gomorah had was being mean. What is that to us? (pun on the us...)

Our leader is also a 5 letter word: Trump. A shining example of morality. What does S&G have on US?

Let those DACAers eat cake...

[Mark]

Having lived in Los Angeles for 44 years I can tell you these people are not assimilating.
They are creating the same 3rd world cesspools that they had in their old country right here.
And not only do they work, but they have been given all the scams to work, and take advantage of all the socialist programs, to supplement their income, and thus are quite able to live quite well.
They think there is nothing wrong with taking something offered to them free.
dc

This reminds me of a soccer game held in the LA coliseum in the last few years pitting the USA national team against Mexico and there were significantly more fans waiving the Mexican flag and cheering for Mexico than the Americans. Far more. I spend time working in LA and David is correct. There is really no assimilation. Heck I sometimes find it difficult to communicate with people at stores and restaurants etc because they dont speak hardly any English if any at all. I might as well be in Mexico. Does the rule of law still mean anything? La Raza may finally have their way. So sad..

[Michelle]

Having lived in Los Angeles for 44 years I can tell you these people are not assimilating.
They are creating the same 3rd world cesspools that they had in their old country right here.
And not only do they work, but they have been given all the scams to work, and take advantage of all the socialist programs, to supplement their income, and thus are quite able to live quite well.
They think there is nothing wrong with taking something offered to them free.
dc

This is the problem for sure!

My first husband was from Mexico. They are/were members of the church.

Many of them were here illegally and working illegally with fake papers. They said it was "part of their culture" that if you could get away with it, it was ok. Cheating in school, taking things that don't belong to you, etc. They said if your teacher didn't catch you, it was her fault. If you don't want your stuff taken, you have to keep it safe.

Out of 5 siblings and their spouses (all Mexican and one African except me) only 1 sister in law said that it was wrong and didn't fit with the gospel, but she did agree it was part of the culture.

When I would ask how they could get temple recommends since they were being dishonest they said their leaders didn't ask if they were illegal so it was ok.

Most of them would get credit cards as soon as they arrived, fill them up and declare bankruptcy. They used every welfare program available, and as I said they worked with fake papers.

I flat out told my future husband that we would do things right. He had to tell the truth in the immigration interviews and we would take the fines or go to Mexico or whatever when we submitted his paperwork for residency. Honestly, it cost about $2000 and it was a hassle to do the paperwork and interviews and wait for hours up in SLC in a little waiting room just to ask a simple question, but the process for him to become legal was not as scary or as hard as people make it sound, even though he had broken the law. So when people complain, not a lot of sympathy here.

On a happy note, the sister in law I mentioned did insist that they go back to Mexico after they graduated and enter the country legally to become residents. This was a big deal because she was terrified to go back and have to raise her kids there in case things didn't work out the way they hoped. But, after 5 years, they were able to find a company to sponsor their legal return to the USA and now they live with no fear of being deported.

That is my concern, if they broke the law once, what is to keep them from doing it again? Just because the got away with it doesn't make it ok. It is not the US governments fault (or yours or mine) that they broke the law. Who is to blame when the family and children get sent back? The parents! I can feel bad for the kids, but really, it is the parents to blame. Why don't they all go as a family. Mom and dad should know the culture and be able to help them assimilate in the culture of their home country easier than here. If they are concerned about safety, jobs, etc. then they should work to fix their country's government. Serve in leadership, clean up their neighborhood, etc. As for jobs, if they speak English fluently and lived in the US, finding a job should be a piece of cake compared to the local population. They would likely be highly sought after for employment.

I get that they build a life here already and kept their nose clean for awhile, but part of repentance is restitution, when possible. It is knowing that if you could go back and undo the mistake, you would. This is an opportunity to prove that they want to do things the right way and be legal. I agree the line is long to get in the USA, but they already received many of the benefits even though they cut in line. They should be grateful and get in the back of the line now.

[Fiannan]

Having lived in Los Angeles for 44 years I can tell you these people are not assimilating.
They are creating the same 3rd world cesspools that they had in their old country right here.
And not only do they work, but they have been given all the scams to work, and take advantage of all the socialist programs, to supplement their income, and thus are quite able to live quite well.
They think there is nothing wrong with taking something offered to them free.
dc

This reminds me of a soccer game held in the LA coliseum in the last few years pitting the USA national team against Mexico and there were significantly more fans waiving the Mexican flag and cheering for Mexico than the Americans. Far more. I spend time working in LA and David is correct. There is really no assimilation. Heck I sometimes find it difficult to communicate with people at stores and restaurants etc because they dont speak hardly any English if any at all. I might as well be in Mexico. Does the rule of law still mean anything? La Raza may finally have their way. So sad..

Immigration without assimilation is colonization.

[Fiannan]

I think the Church believes these people present a fantastic missionary opportunity, just as they did a couple of years in Europe. In the case of Europe I have heard that some missions had as many as over 100 people get baptized from the recent immigrants last year, but you were lucky if several remained active and they were generally of Christian origin in the first place. Often a migrant will convert to a Christian religion and then tell immigration officials that they have to stay in Europe or face persecution or even death if they return to the Middle East. So they never were really sincere in the first place.

The missionaries are finding that concentrating on native people, while maybe only getting a couple of converts a year, is a better use of time. Sadly, if you think you have a hard time getting ward members fired up on missionary work in the USA the participation rate in Europe is dismal. It is just not part of their culture.

[EmmaLee]

It's not sexy to serve your white, American neighbor, but it's all the rage to virtue signal about giving handouts - giving money stolen from other people - to lawbreakers. After all, who gets the headlines? Senator handing out H1Bs or you giving your next door neighbor a loaf of bread because he's hungry.

Let's get rid of that pesky 12th Article of Faith while we're at it. The virtue signaling, socialist, cafeteria Mormons have decided it no longer applies (unless you're a white American, then it applies).

Oh, and that even more pesky temple recommend question, "Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?" Only applies to white Americans, as well, obviously.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... -born-stu/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KAL8tn ... e=youtu.be

[David13]

35 Wherefore, I know by this thing which thou hast said, that if the Gentiles have not charity, because of our weakness, that thou wilt prove them, and take away their talent, yea, even that which they have received, and give unto them who shall have more abundantly.

36 And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord that he would give unto the Gentiles grace, that they might have charity.

37 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: If they have not charity it mattereth not unto thee, thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father.

38 And now I, Moroni, bid farewell unto the Gentiles, yea, and also unto my brethren whom I love, until we shall meet before the judgment-seat of Christ, where all men shall know that my garments are not spotted with your blood.

Good post marc.

Today is the great power of the USA. We can travel from sea to shining sea. Our motto is a 5 letter word: Greed. Hugh Nibley said the sin that Sodom and Gomorah had was being mean. What is that to us? (pun on the us...)

Our leader is also a 5 letter word: Trump. A shining example of morality. What does S&G have on US?

Let those DACAers eat cake...

We can give them your money. In fact we could also give them your house. You are your greed don't need it, we will give them your money and your house, after all you need to be charitable and so do we and we like to do it with other peoples money. So ... you go first.
dc

[marc]

They think there is nothing wrong with taking something offered to them free.

You mean like salvation?

[David13]

Having lived in Los Angeles for 44 years I can tell you these people are not assimilating.
They are creating the same 3rd world cesspools that they had in their old country right here.
And not only do they work, but they have been given all the scams to work, and take advantage of all the socialist programs, to supplement their income, and thus are quite able to live quite well.
They think there is nothing wrong with taking something offered to them free.
dc

This is the problem for sure!

My first husband was from Mexico. They are/were members of the church.

Many of them were here illegally and working illegally with fake papers. They said it was "part of their culture" that if you could get away with it, it was ok. Cheating in school, taking things that don't belong to you, etc. They said if your teacher didn't catch you, it was her fault. If you don't want your stuff taken, you have to keep it safe.

Out of 5 siblings and their spouses (all Mexican and one African except me) only 1 sister in law said that it was wrong and didn't fit with the gospel, but she did agree it was part of the culture.

When I would ask how they could get temple recommends since they were being dishonest they said their leaders didn't ask if they were illegal so it was ok.

Most of them would get credit cards as soon as they arrived, fill them up and declare bankruptcy. They used every welfare program available, and as I said they worked with fake papers.

I flat out told my future husband that we would do things right. He had to tell the truth in the immigration interviews and we would take the fines or go to Mexico or whatever when we submitted his paperwork for residency. Honestly, it cost about $2000 and it was a hassle to do the paperwork and interviews and wait for hours up in SLC in a little waiting room just to ask a simple question, but the process for him to become legal was not as scary or as hard as people make it sound, even though he had broken the law. So when people complain, not a lot of sympathy here.

On a happy note, the sister in law I mentioned did insist that they go back to Mexico after they graduated and enter the country legally to become residents. This was a big deal because she was terrified to go back and have to raise her kids there in case things didn't work out the way they hoped. But, after 5 years, they were able to find a company to sponsor their legal return to the USA and now they live with no fear of being deported.

That is my concern, if they broke the law once, what is to keep them from doing it again? Just because the got away with it doesn't make it ok. It is not the US governments fault (or yours or mine) that they broke the law. Who is to blame when the family and children get sent back? The parents! I can feel bad for the kids, but really, it is the parents to blame. Why don't they all go as a family. Mom and dad should know the culture and be able to help them assimilate in the culture of their home country easier than here. If they are concerned about safety, jobs, etc. then they should work to fix their country's government. Serve in leadership, clean up their neighborhood, etc. As for jobs, if they speak English fluently and lived in the US, finding a job should be a piece of cake compared to the local population. They would likely be highly sought after for employment.

I get that they build a life here already and kept their nose clean for awhile, but part of repentance is restitution, when possible. It is knowing that if you could go back and undo the mistake, you would. This is an opportunity to prove that they want to do things the right way and be legal. I agree the line is long to get in the USA, but they already received many of the benefits even though they cut in line. They should be grateful and get in the back of the line now.

Actually Michelle, they don't keep their nose clean.
The create the same cesspool they had in their country, they create it here.
Again speaking of Los Angeles, the highest crime areas in Los Angeles are ... predominantly Mexican immigrant neighborhoods. They have outdone the blacks in the crime arena, tho' the blacks are trying hard to keep up with them.
Most of the previously predominantly black neighborhoods are now predominantly Mexican or other Latin American country immigrants.
Long since much of the black population moved out, into all neighborhoods and basically assimilated into general American population. That was much accomplished long before Obama became president. So basically Los Angeles had long since became a generally integrated city.
There still are heavily black neighborhoods, known well for their high crime statistics, but in most cases if you look at the demographics, the blacks are not the majority in those neighborhoods.
dc

[Michelle]

They think there is nothing wrong with taking something offered to them free.

You mean like salvation?

Salvation is freely offered from Him whose right it is to give.

The "free" stuff being offered to illegals is stolen goods.

I have been able to "legally" take advantage of such welfare programs for many years, but I choose not to, because I know right from wrong.

[David13]

They think there is nothing wrong with taking something offered to them free.

You mean like salvation?

Salvation does not equate to fraudulently mooching off the government.
Read the Book of Mormon.
Then come back and tell me where it says "and they all went down and applied for food stamps, welfare, Section 8 housing, aid to dependent children, free medical, free school which, sayeth (?) was to be paid for with other peoples money."
I missed that part.
Tell me where it is.
dc

[Michelle]

Having lived in Los Angeles for 44 years I can tell you these people are not assimilating.
They are creating the same 3rd world cesspools that they had in their old country right here.
And not only do they work, but they have been given all the scams to work, and take advantage of all the socialist programs, to supplement their income, and thus are quite able to live quite well.
They think there is nothing wrong with taking something offered to them free.
dc

This is the problem for sure!

My first husband was from Mexico. They are/were members of the church.

Many of them were here illegally and working illegally with fake papers. They said it was "part of their culture" that if you could get away with it, it was ok. Cheating in school, taking things that don't belong to you, etc. They said if your teacher didn't catch you, it was her fault. If you don't want your stuff taken, you have to keep it safe.

Out of 5 siblings and their spouses (all Mexican and one African except me) only 1 sister in law said that it was wrong and didn't fit with the gospel, but she did agree it was part of the culture.

When I would ask how they could get temple recommends since they were being dishonest they said their leaders didn't ask if they were illegal so it was ok.

Most of them would get credit cards as soon as they arrived, fill them up and declare bankruptcy. They used every welfare program available, and as I said they worked with fake papers.

I flat out told my future husband that we would do things right. He had to tell the truth in the immigration interviews and we would take the fines or go to Mexico or whatever when we submitted his paperwork for residency. Honestly, it cost about $2000 and it was a hassle to do the paperwork and interviews and wait for hours up in SLC in a little waiting room just to ask a simple question, but the process for him to become legal was not as scary or as hard as people make it sound, even though he had broken the law. So when people complain, not a lot of sympathy here.

On a happy note, the sister in law I mentioned did insist that they go back to Mexico after they graduated and enter the country legally to become residents. This was a big deal because she was terrified to go back and have to raise her kids there in case things didn't work out the way they hoped. But, after 5 years, they were able to find a company to sponsor their legal return to the USA and now they live with no fear of being deported.

That is my concern, if they broke the law once, what is to keep them from doing it again? Just because the got away with it doesn't make it ok. It is not the US governments fault (or yours or mine) that they broke the law. Who is to blame when the family and children get sent back? The parents! I can feel bad for the kids, but really, it is the parents to blame. Why don't they all go as a family. Mom and dad should know the culture and be able to help them assimilate in the culture of their home country easier than here. If they are concerned about safety, jobs, etc. then they should work to fix their country's government. Serve in leadership, clean up their neighborhood, etc. As for jobs, if they speak English fluently and lived in the US, finding a job should be a piece of cake compared to the local population. They would likely be highly sought after for employment.

I get that they build a life here already and kept their nose clean for awhile, but part of repentance is restitution, when possible. It is knowing that if you could go back and undo the mistake, you would. This is an opportunity to prove that they want to do things the right way and be legal. I agree the line is long to get in the USA, but they already received many of the benefits even though they cut in line. They should be grateful and get in the back of the line now.

Actually Michelle, they don't keep their nose clean.
The create the same cesspool they had in their country, they create it here.
Again speaking of Los Angeles, the highest crime areas in Los Angeles are ... predominantly Mexican immigrant neighborhoods. They have outdone the blacks in the crime arena, tho' the blacks are trying hard to keep up with them.
Most of the previously predominantly black neighborhoods are now predominantly Mexican or other Latin American country immigrants.
Long since much of the black population moved out, into all neighborhoods and basically assimilated into general American population. That was much accomplished long before Obama became president. So basically Los Angeles had long since became a generally integrated city.
There still are heavily black neighborhoods, known well for their high crime statistics, but in most cases if you look at the demographics, the blacks are not the majority in those neighborhoods.
dc

I guess with that line I was referring to members who are illegal. I concede the point.