A man with an army is far deadlier than a man with a gun

[oneClimbs]

I created this video several years ago after a shooting because I felt that certain points about the purpose of the 2nd amendment were not being addressed.

Now there is another shooting in my own state, right in my backyard and here people go again missing the point. I would like to have anyone who is against people owning firearms to ponder this question: If you could rewind time to just moments before the shooting, would you put guns in the hands of all the victims or leave them defenseless?

Thank goodness an armed citizen came and probably saved many lives: http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/sharpshoot ... ch-gunman/

What if he had been disarmed?

[dafty]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

[Lyster]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

No devil's advocate about it - you've only helped to reinforce 5tev3's point. Why? The very statistics they use to try and scream "gun control!" are evidence how silly their argument is.

Americans are "passionate" about their guns! Look, they own the most guns! And also probably many other things, like phones, computers, cars, other waste-of-space miscellaneous objects. Because America is rich in comparison. But, you know, whatever. Nothing to see here.
Look what kind of scum own them! Look how many are white! And veterans, or super-owners, meaning they own multiples. Dozens, even. The kind that truly use them for self-defense scenarios. The kind that fear the tyrannical takeover.
Look how many people die with guns! Oh, and by the way, also about 2/3 of those are suicides. But nothing to see here.
Look how many people own guns! Oh, and they're handguns, which aren't exactly great multi-killers. Nothing to see here, though.

And on. They try to shove gun control in your face like every other outlet. They try to throw an image of stats up and say "hey, these are bad!" all the while only proving the point of the OP.

[Alaris]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

Uh oh...I hope you're just "playing." The right to defend oneself is a sacred, god-given right. Guns are no more the root of the problem as are trucks or pressure cookers. This recent shooting was stopped by a good-guy with a gun. A gun grab will only further embolden criminals. This is why mass shootings tend to get stopped earlier in Texas than they otherwise would have in other states.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /26849897/

Alma 46:12 And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land—

Here's a bit from this sacred writ prepared for us in our day:

3 Nephi 3:13 Yea, he sent a proclamation among all the people, that they should gather together their women, and their children, their flocks and their herds, and all their substance, save it were their land, unto one place.
14 And he caused that fortifications should be built round about them, and the strength thereof should be exceedingly great. And he caused that armies, both of the Nephites and of the Lamanites, or of all them who were numbered among the Nephites, should be placed as guards round about to watch them, and to guard them from the robbers day and night.

Disarming the populace is exactly what our modern day gadiantons want. Their author is acutely aware of how gadianton shenanigans are dealt with.

[Alaris]

Here is an article on the friendliest states for gun owners. This may be why protesters in Arizona are so polite.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topi ... ners-2015/

[Alaris]

I created this video several years ago after a shooting because I felt that certain points about the purpose of the 2nd amendment were not being addressed.

Now there is another shooting in my own state, right in my backyard and here people go again missing the point. I would like to have anyone who is against people owning firearms to ponder this question: If you could rewind time to just moments before the shooting, would you put guns in the hands of all the victims or leave them defenseless?

Thank goodness an armed citizen came and probably saved many lives: http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/sharpshoot ... ch-gunman/

What if he had been disarmed?

Fantastic video - though perhaps a song with a more solemn melody would help cement the tone.

I will remember that line - A man with an army is far deadlier than a man with a gun. With all the corruption in Washington, this would be the worst time (not that there is ever a good time) to disarm the populace. To dafty and Robin Hood's chagrin ( ) - the USA is home to one of only two promised lands that we know of. This is the land of the Garden of Eden, of Adam-Ondi-Ahman, and overlaps the boundary of the City of Enoch. The adversary wants to destory this land and our liberty. Moroni tells us of secret combinations to which we must awaken ourselves. Nephi teaches us of a harlot--to which many nations belong.

1 Nephi 14:13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory.

15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth.

16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.

1 Nephi 14:13 is reason enough alone to arm yourselves. Don't let the news outlets fool you as to who the real enemy of "they" are. Arming ourselves with righteousness is better than arming ourselves with an AR15 - but as for me and my family, we will be armed with both.

[oneClimbs]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

Let's just say that you had magical time-traveling powers. Would you go back and put guns in the hands of the people in concentration camps or leave them as they were?

[dafty]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

Uh oh...I hope you're just "playing." The right to defend oneself is a sacred, god-given right. Guns are no more the root of the problem as are trucks or pressure cookers. This recent shooting was stopped by a good-guy with a gun. A gun grab will only further embolden criminals. This is why mass shootings tend to get stopped earlier in Texas than they otherwise would have in other states.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /26849897/

Alma 46:12 And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land—

Here's a bit from this sacred writ prepared for us in our day:

3 Nephi 3:13 Yea, he sent a proclamation among all the people, that they should gather together their women, and their children, their flocks and their herds, and all their substance, save it were their land, unto one place.
14 And he caused that fortifications should be built round about them, and the strength thereof should be exceedingly great. And he caused that armies, both of the Nephites and of the Lamanites, or of all them who were numbered among the Nephites, should be placed as guards round about to watch them, and to guard them from the robbers day and night.

Disarming the populace is exactly what our modern day gadiantons want. Their author is acutely aware of how gadianton shenanigans are dealt with.

not really playing...i definitely question gun ownership, especially among emotionally unstable, which unfortunately the promised land is full off. If u think guns in the hands of common folk is the solution for gun crime, think again...theres always a stronger man that will own a bigger gun-100% true...u want to arm people to protect themselves and their families, but how many killers are u arming at the same time? its far more complicated than you are trying to present it to be. For every scripture quoted, on God given right to defend oneself, one can find another speaking of laying down the weapons etc. Things that happen in America, due to legality of gun ownership are considered 3rd world problem internatinally, in the countries with gun prohibition.. food for thought x

[dafty]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

Let's just say that you had magical time-traveling powers. Would you go back and put guns in the hands of the people in concentration camps or leave them as they were?

lol read a bit upon the uprisings during WW2. Guns in the hands of farmers, woman and common people did not resolve any of the problems, but made them worse. People send to concentration camps, many of them, put up a fight previously and then were sent to camps as tho to prisons. To give this example, is ignorant and disrespectful to men, children and woman that lost their lives, loved ones and friends during the uprisings

[Alaris]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

Uh oh...I hope you're just "playing." The right to defend oneself is a sacred, god-given right. Guns are no more the root of the problem as are trucks or pressure cookers. This recent shooting was stopped by a good-guy with a gun. A gun grab will only further embolden criminals. This is why mass shootings tend to get stopped earlier in Texas than they otherwise would have in other states.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /26849897/

Alma 46:12 And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land—

Here's a bit from this sacred writ prepared for us in our day:

3 Nephi 3:13 Yea, he sent a proclamation among all the people, that they should gather together their women, and their children, their flocks and their herds, and all their substance, save it were their land, unto one place.
14 And he caused that fortifications should be built round about them, and the strength thereof should be exceedingly great. And he caused that armies, both of the Nephites and of the Lamanites, or of all them who were numbered among the Nephites, should be placed as guards round about to watch them, and to guard them from the robbers day and night.

Disarming the populace is exactly what our modern day gadiantons want. Their author is acutely aware of how gadianton shenanigans are dealt with.

not really playing...i definitely question gun ownership, especially among emotionally unstable, which unfortunately the promised land is full off. If u think guns in the hands of common folk is the solution for gun crime, think again...theres always a stronger man that will own a bigger gun-100% true...u want to arm people to protect themselves and their families, but how many killers are u arming at the same time? its far more complicated than you are trying to present it to be. For every scripture quoted, on God given right to defend oneself, one can find another speaking of laying down the weapons etc. Things that happen in America, due to legality of gun ownership are considered 3rd world problem internatinally, in the countries with gun prohibition.. food for thought x

Fair points. You may join the anti-neph-lehis and secure yourself a higher place in heaven. I will be joining the Captain Moronis.

Alma 48:17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.

Thanks to the Army of Helaman, there was both physical and spiritual protection to help their parents keep their covenant of peace and their lives. Thanks to their faith, not a single one of them was harmed, yet they laid death and destruction upon the lamanites.

Alma 56:44 Therefore what say ye, my sons, will ye go against them to battle?

45 And now I say unto you, my beloved brother Moroni, that never had I seen so great courage, nay, not amongst all the Nephites.

46 For as I had ever called them my sons (for they were all of them very young) even so they said unto me: Father, behold our God is with us, and he will not suffer that we should fall; then let us go forth; we would not slay our brethren if they would let us alone; therefore let us go, lest they should overpower the army of Antipus.

47 Now they never had fought, yet they did not fear death; and they did think more upon the liberty of their fathers than they did upon their lives; yea, they had been taught by their mothers, that if they did not doubt, God would deliver them.

48 And they rehearsed unto me the words of their mothers, saying: We do not doubt our mothers knew it.

49 And it came to pass that I did return with my two thousand against these Lamanites who had pursued us. And now behold, the armies of Antipus had overtaken them, and a terrible battle had commenced.

50 The army of Antipus being weary, because of their long march in so short a space of time, were about to fall into the hands of the Lamanites; and had I not returned with my two thousand they would have obtained their purpose.

51 For Antipus had fallen by the sword, and many of his leaders, because of their weariness, which was occasioned by the speed of their march—therefore the men of Antipus, being confused because of the fall of their leaders, began to give way before the Lamanites.

52 And it came to pass that the Lamanites took courage, and began to pursue them; and thus were the Lamanites pursuing them with great vigor when Helaman came upon their rear with his two thousand, and began to slay them exceedingly, insomuch that the whole army of the Lamanites halted and turned upon Helaman.

53 Now when the people of Antipus saw that the Lamanites had turned them about, they gathered together their men and came again upon the rear of the Lamanites.

54 And now it came to pass that we, the people of Nephi, the people of Antipus, and I with my two thousand, did surround the Lamanites, and did slay them; yea, insomuch that they were compelled to deliver up their weapons of war and also themselves as prisoners of war.

55 And now it came to pass that when they had surrendered themselves up unto us, behold, I numbered those young men who had fought with me, fearing lest there were many of them slain.

56 But behold, to my great joy, there had not one soul of them fallen to the earth; yea, and they had fought as if with the strength of God; yea, never were men known to have fought with such miraculous strength; and with such mighty power did they fall upon the Lamanites, that they did frighten them; and for this cause did the Lamanites deliver themselves up as prisoners of war.

57 And as we had no place for our prisoners, that we could guard them to keep them from the armies of the Lamanites, therefore we sent them to the land of Zarahemla, and a part of those men who were not slain of Antipus, with them; and the remainder I took and joined them to my stripling Ammonites, and took our march back to the city of Judea.

Moreover, the Book of Mormon teaches us how to deal with gadiantons ... laying down weapons of war is not in that recipe. In fact the warnings of the Book of Mormon are clear that doing so would lead to further death and destruction. Again, the real enemy of the harlot is not just God's children but the Lamb of God and His people and His purposes.

1 Nephi 14:13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

[oneClimbs]

not really playing...i definitely question gun ownership, especially among emotionally unstable, which unfortunately the promised land is full off. If u think guns in the hands of common folk is the solution for gun crime, think again...theres always a stronger man that will own a bigger gun-100% true...u want to arm people to protect themselves and their families, but how many killers are u arming at the same time? its far more complicated than you are trying to present it to be. For every scripture quoted, on God given right to defend oneself, one can find another speaking of laying down the weapons etc. Things that happen in America, due to legality of gun ownership are considered 3rd world problem internatinally, in the countries with gun prohibition.. food for thought x

The Anti-Nephi-Lehi's laid down their weapons because of the murders they had previously committed. That said, they allowed their children to go and fight in their defense because they were not murderers, they were acting in self-defense and they hadn't made the same covenant. Both are valid situations because the context of the circumstances differs.

"...the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for monarchy nor power but they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.

And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God; for the Lord had said unto them, and also unto their fathers, that: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies.

And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion." (Alma 43:45-47)

One day we will beat our spears into plows and such, but to disarm yourself is to put yourself in a situation where you cannot defend the defenseless. Can you honestly say that you would stand by and allow your children to be raped and murdered and not lift a single finger? Do you have locks on the doors to your home, your car? Why? Why not just leave the door to your house open a night? We have weapons as a form of defense, but we hope that we will never have to use them.

Stephen Willeford is a hero because he defended the lives of innocent people against an animal. Should he have not had a gun? People have the right to defend themselves and unfortunately having such a right opens up the possibility of other people abusing their liberty to harm others. This is the price of a free society. If people have the freedom to move around and associate with other human beings, they also have the freedom to harm said human beings. To disarm people removes the ability for them to properly defend themselves against the biggest threat of all, and that's not a lone gunman, that's a tyrannical government or from an invasion from another government. Governments are the biggest mass-murderers of all time.

While mere rifles and handguns hardly seem enough to fight a government that has superweapons and such, the Vietnamese did pretty well against the US, so did the Afghanis, and if anyone invaded the US they'd have to contend with a gun behind every blade of grass. Captain Moroni, who if all men were like the powers of hell would have been shaken forever, armed his people, built walls and ditches around his cities and never offensively attacked anyone but acted purely out of self-defense with a desire to save lives and not shed blood.

The only solution to people not killing other people is to change their hearts and minds. Banning guns may keep them out of the hands of some people, it may lower crime rates and create a little period of peace until internal goverment corruption or invasion comes along because the people as a whole are completely vulnerable to the worst killers of all. This is what happened in WWII, so you want a repeat of that? Completely defenseless people being mowed down by armies fighting back with sticks and rocks?

Gun ownership by private citizens is an acceptable risk. They same way that private vehicle ownership is an acceptable risk. 40,000 people are killed per year in vehicle accidents and now people are using vehicles as weapons to kill mass numbers of people. We shouldn't ban cars because the good they do far outweighs the bad even though 40,000 deaths is REALLY BAD. The good that an armed public does and the crime it keeps at bay and the threat it is to government corruption or invasion far outweights the bad that a lone gunman does here and there.

Guns in the hands of farmers, woman and common people did not resolve any of the problems, but made them worse.

So they wouldn't have been sent to camps and exterminated if they didn't fight back? At least some of those farmers had the ability to defend their families when the Nazis came for them. What I think is disrespectful is thinking that those people should have been completely defenseless against an evil force that was seeking their extermination. People have a right to defend themselves against threats. The bad guys will always come and they will have had time to prepare, if not with guns, then bombs, vehicles, knives, swords, poison, etc.

[dafty]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

Uh oh...I hope you're just "playing." The right to defend oneself is a sacred, god-given right. Guns are no more the root of the problem as are trucks or pressure cookers. This recent shooting was stopped by a good-guy with a gun. A gun grab will only further embolden criminals. This is why mass shootings tend to get stopped earlier in Texas than they otherwise would have in other states.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /26849897/

Alma 46:12 And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
13 And he fastened on his head-plate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren, so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land—

Here's a bit from this sacred writ prepared for us in our day:

3 Nephi 3:13 Yea, he sent a proclamation among all the people, that they should gather together their women, and their children, their flocks and their herds, and all their substance, save it were their land, unto one place.
14 And he caused that fortifications should be built round about them, and the strength thereof should be exceedingly great. And he caused that armies, both of the Nephites and of the Lamanites, or of all them who were numbered among the Nephites, should be placed as guards round about to watch them, and to guard them from the robbers day and night.

Disarming the populace is exactly what our modern day gadiantons want. Their author is acutely aware of how gadianton shenanigans are dealt with.

not really playing...i definitely question gun ownership, especially among emotionally unstable, which unfortunately the promised land is full off. If u think guns in the hands of common folk is the solution for gun crime, think again...theres always a stronger man that will own a bigger gun-100% true...u want to arm people to protect themselves and their families, but how many killers are u arming at the same time? its far more complicated than you are trying to present it to be. For every scripture quoted, on God given right to defend oneself, one can find another speaking of laying down the weapons etc. Things that happen in America, due to legality of gun ownership are considered 3rd world problem internatinally, in the countries with gun prohibition.. food for thought x

Fair points. You may join the anti-neph-lehis and secure yourself a higher place in heaven. I will be joining the Captain Moronis.

Alma 48:17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.

Thanks to the Army of Helaman, there was both physical and spiritual protection to help their parents keep their covenant of peace and their lives. Thanks to their faith, not a single one of them was harmed, yet they laid death and destruction upon the lamanites.

Alma 56:44 Therefore what say ye, my sons, will ye go against them to battle?

45 And now I say unto you, my beloved brother Moroni, that never had I seen so great courage, nay, not amongst all the Nephites.

46 For as I had ever called them my sons (for they were all of them very young) even so they said unto me: Father, behold our God is with us, and he will not suffer that we should fall; then let us go forth; we would not slay our brethren if they would let us alone; therefore let us go, lest they should overpower the army of Antipus.

47 Now they never had fought, yet they did not fear death; and they did think more upon the liberty of their fathers than they did upon their lives; yea, they had been taught by their mothers, that if they did not doubt, God would deliver them.

48 And they rehearsed unto me the words of their mothers, saying: We do not doubt our mothers knew it.

49 And it came to pass that I did return with my two thousand against these Lamanites who had pursued us. And now behold, the armies of Antipus had overtaken them, and a terrible battle had commenced.

50 The army of Antipus being weary, because of their long march in so short a space of time, were about to fall into the hands of the Lamanites; and had I not returned with my two thousand they would have obtained their purpose.

51 For Antipus had fallen by the sword, and many of his leaders, because of their weariness, which was occasioned by the speed of their march—therefore the men of Antipus, being confused because of the fall of their leaders, began to give way before the Lamanites.

52 And it came to pass that the Lamanites took courage, and began to pursue them; and thus were the Lamanites pursuing them with great vigor when Helaman came upon their rear with his two thousand, and began to slay them exceedingly, insomuch that the whole army of the Lamanites halted and turned upon Helaman.

53 Now when the people of Antipus saw that the Lamanites had turned them about, they gathered together their men and came again upon the rear of the Lamanites.

54 And now it came to pass that we, the people of Nephi, the people of Antipus, and I with my two thousand, did surround the Lamanites, and did slay them; yea, insomuch that they were compelled to deliver up their weapons of war and also themselves as prisoners of war.

55 And now it came to pass that when they had surrendered themselves up unto us, behold, I numbered those young men who had fought with me, fearing lest there were many of them slain.

56 But behold, to my great joy, there had not one soul of them fallen to the earth; yea, and they had fought as if with the strength of God; yea, never were men known to have fought with such miraculous strength; and with such mighty power did they fall upon the Lamanites, that they did frighten them; and for this cause did the Lamanites deliver themselves up as prisoners of war.

57 And as we had no place for our prisoners, that we could guard them to keep them from the armies of the Lamanites, therefore we sent them to the land of Zarahemla, and a part of those men who were not slain of Antipus, with them; and the remainder I took and joined them to my stripling Ammonites, and took our march back to the city of Judea.

Moreover, the Book of Mormon teaches us how to deal with gadiantons ... laying down weapons of war is not in that recipe. In fact the warnings of the Book of Mormon are clear that doing so would lead to further death and destruction. Again, the real enemy of the harlot is not just God's children but the Lamb of God and His people and His purposes.

1 Nephi 14:13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

Was army of Heleman an organized and approved 'organization' or a bunch of commoners runing wild with guns in their pocket? Its naive to compare Captain Moroni and his warriors with a group of mentally unstable and immature us citizens...

[dafty]

Ps. If Captain Moroni, David A. Bednar,DS etc said, pick up gour guns were going to fight for our families, itx b more than up for it, but to let anyone anywhere to own and carry a gun casually -its questionable to say the least...u know, Eminem used to drive the streets, of wherever hes from and shoot a gun at people and cops cars lol lucky it was only a paintball gun lol

[Alaris]

Uh oh...I hope you're just "playing." The right to defend oneself is a sacred, god-given right. Guns are no more the root of the problem as are trucks or pressure cookers. This recent shooting was stopped by a good-guy with a gun. A gun grab will only further embolden criminals. This is why mass shootings tend to get stopped earlier in Texas than they otherwise would have in other states.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... /26849897/



Here's a bit from this sacred writ prepared for us in our day:



Disarming the populace is exactly what our modern day gadiantons want. Their author is acutely aware of how gadianton shenanigans are dealt with.

not really playing...i definitely question gun ownership, especially among emotionally unstable, which unfortunately the promised land is full off. If u think guns in the hands of common folk is the solution for gun crime, think again...theres always a stronger man that will own a bigger gun-100% true...u want to arm people to protect themselves and their families, but how many killers are u arming at the same time? its far more complicated than you are trying to present it to be. For every scripture quoted, on God given right to defend oneself, one can find another speaking of laying down the weapons etc. Things that happen in America, due to legality of gun ownership are considered 3rd world problem internatinally, in the countries with gun prohibition.. food for thought x

Fair points. You may join the anti-neph-lehis and secure yourself a higher place in heaven. I will be joining the Captain Moronis.

Alma 48:17 Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all men had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Moroni, behold, the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever; yea, the devil would never have power over the hearts of the children of men.

Thanks to the Army of Helaman, there was both physical and spiritual protection to help their parents keep their covenant of peace and their lives. Thanks to their faith, not a single one of them was harmed, yet they laid death and destruction upon the lamanites.

Alma 56:44 Therefore what say ye, my sons, will ye go against them to battle?

45 And now I say unto you, my beloved brother Moroni, that never had I seen so great courage, nay, not amongst all the Nephites.

46 For as I had ever called them my sons (for they were all of them very young) even so they said unto me: Father, behold our God is with us, and he will not suffer that we should fall; then let us go forth; we would not slay our brethren if they would let us alone; therefore let us go, lest they should overpower the army of Antipus.

47 Now they never had fought, yet they did not fear death; and they did think more upon the liberty of their fathers than they did upon their lives; yea, they had been taught by their mothers, that if they did not doubt, God would deliver them.

48 And they rehearsed unto me the words of their mothers, saying: We do not doubt our mothers knew it.

49 And it came to pass that I did return with my two thousand against these Lamanites who had pursued us. And now behold, the armies of Antipus had overtaken them, and a terrible battle had commenced.

50 The army of Antipus being weary, because of their long march in so short a space of time, were about to fall into the hands of the Lamanites; and had I not returned with my two thousand they would have obtained their purpose.

51 For Antipus had fallen by the sword, and many of his leaders, because of their weariness, which was occasioned by the speed of their march—therefore the men of Antipus, being confused because of the fall of their leaders, began to give way before the Lamanites.

52 And it came to pass that the Lamanites took courage, and began to pursue them; and thus were the Lamanites pursuing them with great vigor when Helaman came upon their rear with his two thousand, and began to slay them exceedingly, insomuch that the whole army of the Lamanites halted and turned upon Helaman.

53 Now when the people of Antipus saw that the Lamanites had turned them about, they gathered together their men and came again upon the rear of the Lamanites.

54 And now it came to pass that we, the people of Nephi, the people of Antipus, and I with my two thousand, did surround the Lamanites, and did slay them; yea, insomuch that they were compelled to deliver up their weapons of war and also themselves as prisoners of war.

55 And now it came to pass that when they had surrendered themselves up unto us, behold, I numbered those young men who had fought with me, fearing lest there were many of them slain.

56 But behold, to my great joy, there had not one soul of them fallen to the earth; yea, and they had fought as if with the strength of God; yea, never were men known to have fought with such miraculous strength; and with such mighty power did they fall upon the Lamanites, that they did frighten them; and for this cause did the Lamanites deliver themselves up as prisoners of war.

57 And as we had no place for our prisoners, that we could guard them to keep them from the armies of the Lamanites, therefore we sent them to the land of Zarahemla, and a part of those men who were not slain of Antipus, with them; and the remainder I took and joined them to my stripling Ammonites, and took our march back to the city of Judea.

Moreover, the Book of Mormon teaches us how to deal with gadiantons ... laying down weapons of war is not in that recipe. In fact the warnings of the Book of Mormon are clear that doing so would lead to further death and destruction. Again, the real enemy of the harlot is not just God's children but the Lamb of God and His people and His purposes.

1 Nephi 14:13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.

Was army of Heleman an organized and approved 'organization' or a bunch of commoners runing wild with guns in their pocket? Its naive to compare Captain Moroni and his warriors with a group of mentally unstable and immature us citizens...

Verse 46 brother:

46 For as I had ever called them my sons (for they were all of them very young) even so they said unto me: Father, behold our God is with us, and he will not suffer that we should fall; then let us go forth; we would not slay our brethren if they would let us alone; therefore let us go, lest they should overpower the army of Antipus.

They were commoners organized into a militia (2nd amendment) - Now we don't have their specific ages, but in an age of grown kids, we can only imagine what Helaman meant here by "all of them were very young."

No government has the right to take away my God-given right to defend myself and my family against any threat - be it a grizzly bear, an armed robber, a foreign invader, a corrupt government, a gadianton, or a crazed, mentally unstable immature US citizen. Taking away my guns will solve none of those problems and will make several of them more likely to happen.

Now given the fact I am the Lamb of God's and part of His work and His kingdom, I am at the top of the harlot's hit list. Now of course God's protection trumps my ability to defend my family. However - again - I will follow in the steps of Captain Moroni & Helaman - both righteous men - and at least one of them armed citizens.

It should bother you - at least a little - that the same political ideology that calls for abortion "rights," that calls for more power and control for the government, that calls for higher taxes, that calls for gender confusion, gay marriage, and all manner of ideologies that stand in opposition to God's laws and God's ways also calls for gun confiscation. These are all the bitter fruits of the bitter fountain.

Moroni 7:11 For behold, a bitter fountain cannot bring forth good water; neither can a good fountain bring forth bitter water; wherefore, a man being a servant of the devil cannot follow Christ; and if he follow Christ he cannot be a servant of the devil.
12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

The title of liberty is a good fruit from a good fountain. The founding fathers - inspired of God per the Book of Mormon - understood that the right to bear arms is a god-given right and helps thwart tyranny among other threats to the individual.

Every single survivor in Texas and their families are praying to the same God we pray to thanking him for Stephen Willeford:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ngendorff/

[Alaris]

Ps. If Captain Moroni, David A. Bednar,DS etc said, pick up gour guns were going to fight for our families, itx b more than up for it, but to let anyone anywhere to own and carry a gun casually -its questionable to say the least...u know, Eminem used to drive the streets, of wherever hes from and shoot a gun at people and cops cars lol lucky it was only a paintball gun lol

We would need guns to pick up. The enemies of righteousness - Obama, Hitlery, and their ilk - want our guns. That is reason enough alone to hold on to them for dear life.

PS Is it weird that I'm excited to debate something with you that we don't agree on?

[dafty]

Ps. If Captain Moroni, David A. Bednar,DS etc said, pick up gour guns were going to fight for our families, itx b more than up for it, but to let anyone anywhere to own and carry a gun casually -its questionable to say the least...u know, Eminem used to drive the streets, of wherever hes from and shoot a gun at people and cops cars lol lucky it was only a paintball gun lol

We would need guns to pick up. The enemies of righteousness - Obama, Hitlery, and their ilk - want our guns. That is reason enough alone to hold on to them for dear life.

PS Is it weird that I'm excited to debate something with you that we don't agree on?

weird lol not really, is it?

[dafty]

ps. and we will not agree on this subject, never ever lol, as long as u think that I propose to take away ur freedom to protect ur family or that I think less of the young people and think they cant fight for a good cause...what I do propose, however, its to follow the example of the nations with the least crime. Statistic do not lie, its not american way, guns for everyone etc. Its mad to accept, one has to fear sending kids to school or a concert cause there will be gun crime there..even in the rotten to its core UK(well overdue for a judgement) its not a real issue, yet it is a huuuuge problemo up the promised land-unacceptable.Oh and if u think ur colt 44(is it that famous gun? lol) will protect u against fully loaded assassins on Obamas errand - Uve got another thing coming.As a matter of fact ud be more likely to KO Anthony Joshua during 12 round bounce

[Alaris]

ps. and we will not agree on this subject, never ever lol, as long as u think that I propose to take away ur freedom to protect ur family or that I think less of the young people and think they cant fight for a good cause...what I do propose, however, its to follow the example of the nations with the least crime. Statistic do not lie, its not american way, guns for everyone etc. Its mad to accept, one has to fear sending kids to school or a concert cause there will be gun crime there..even in the rotten to its core UK(well overdue for a judgement) its not a real issue, yet it is a huuuuge problemo up the promised land-unacceptable.Oh and if u think ur colt 44(is it that famous gun? lol) will protect u against fully loaded assassins on Obamas errand - Uve got another thing coming.As a matter of fact ud be more likely to KO Anthony Joshua during 12 round bounce

I have faith that my sincere effort towards righteousness and my seeking an ever nearer relationship to the Lord would protect me against the fully loaded assassins of Obama - along with my 1911.

Statistics are regularly manipulated to form lies - all the time - especially those people with an agenda. As someone who set the curve in my BYU statistics course several times (OK it was statistics 101 but still) I can tell you that it's quite easy to manipulate statistics to support any position.

[oneClimbs]

ps. and we will not agree on this subject, never ever lol, as long as u think that I propose to take away ur freedom to protect ur family or that I think less of the young people and think they cant fight for a good cause...what I do propose, however, its to follow the example of the nations with the least crime. Statistic do not lie, its not american way, guns for everyone etc. Its mad to accept, one has to fear sending kids to school or a concert cause there will be gun crime there..even in the rotten to its core UK(well overdue for a judgement) its not a real issue, yet it is a huuuuge problemo up the promised land-unacceptable.Oh and if u think ur colt 44(is it that famous gun? lol) will protect u against fully loaded assassins on Obamas errand - Uve got another thing coming.As a matter of fact ud be more likely to KO Anthony Joshua during 12 round bounce

Better to have some protection than none. When it comes to the statistics of other countries, you still see equitable murder rates per capita. You also have to consider the cultures as well and where these crimes are happening and among what subcultures. But all of this is kind of a moot point.

Citizen gun ownership is about protection from government violence whether internal or external. There is absolutely no question that an armed public will put up a significantly larger resistance than an unarmed public. It is a matter of national defense. Sure, this gets abused from time to time but on the whole, most gun owners are responsible people and the only reason these shootings make the news is because they are rare.

Only rare things make the news, remember that. That's why a headline will mention a Mormon's religion when a Mormon does something bad. The general public expects better from Mormons, they are supposed to be nice people and when one goes off the deep end, it is newsworthy. There have been highly publicized shootings recently but almost all of these people have been on psychotropic drugs, literally every one.

We have the most powerful military in the world with the most advanced tech and we are still fighting men in caves in the desert with AK-47s. So your fully-loaded assassins don't seem to be very quickly eliminating those guys. That should be evidence enough that an armed public can hold off an army. Unarmed people are 100% guaranteed to be mown down and thrown in camps or worse, that is an undisputable fact.

[Robin Hood]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

Thanks dafty.
As far as I'm concerned, those who live by the sword die by the sword.

[dafty]

if u think u can compare a typical US citizen to an Afghan soldier that lived and breathed war and confict through all his life, then think again. They have skills and knowledge that have been acquired over many generations...plus what caves are u gonna hide yourself in, in Salt Lake City? read or watch some movies about WW2 uprisings in European countries and soon u will see where im coming from. Any uprising/or The Afghan war for that matter, does not consist of common folk fighting his own battles, but has always been well organised under an experienced command. U cant compare it to a current situation in US when any mad man with a licence can get himself a gun from walmart, and then take it to cinema, theatre or even Church-ridiculous!!!

[dafty]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... statistics
...just playing 'devil's advocate' here...

Thanks dafty.
As far as I'm concerned, those who live by the sword die by the sword.

Thanks Hude, but please dont mistake me for some sort of hippie or pacifist .Quite to contrary, Im a ruthless and very territorial man, however, to propose that anyone should be able to carry a gun under pretens of being 1 of Helemans warriors is beyond me. Especially, weve been advised by a prophet not to carry concealed weapon to church.

The carrying of lethal weapons, concealed or otherwise, within their walls(church buildings) is inappropriate except as required by officers of the law. 21.2.

...

[Alaris]

You guys are just mad the all you can do is take your pocket knives down to the pocket knife range and compare how many screwdrivers, spoons, saws, and accessories your knives have. Do not worry. I'd be happy to sponsor your US citizenship, but first you have to admit 3 things :

1. The USA is a promised land. Great Britain is not.
2. The US Constitution, along with the second amendment is a divinely inspired document.
3. Alaris is right nearly all the time.

Thank you

[Robin Hood]

You guys are just mad the all you can do is take your pocket knives down to the pocket knife range and compare how many screwdrivers, spoons, saws, and accessories your knives have. Do not worry. I'd be happy to sponsor your US citizenship, but first you have to admit 3 things :

1. The USA is a promised land. Great Britain is not.
2. The US Constitution, along with the second amendment is a divinely inspired document.
3. Alaris is right nearly all the time.

Thank you

1. The USA is not my promised land. I don't think it is yours either. The USA is a political entity, not a land. Any promised land would have to include Canada at least.
2. According to President Hinckley, the British constitution and rule of law is also divinely inspired.
3. Robin Hood is yet to be wrong.

P.S. Just in case you didn't know, we have firing ranges in England. My daughter is a member of one.

[dafty]

You guys are just mad the all you can do is take your pocket knives down to the pocket knife range and compare how many screwdrivers, spoons, saws, and accessories your knives have. Do not worry. I'd be happy to sponsor your US citizenship, but first you have to admit 3 things :

1. The USA is a promised land. Great Britain is not.
2. The US Constitution, along with the second amendment is a divinely inspired document.
3. Alaris is right nearly all the time.

Thank you

I reckon I could do u bear hands, eat your gun for starters and then urself for supper(that is as long as youve got nice layer of fat on u, coz I dont do lean diets) lol