LDS Church buys printer's manuscript of Book of Mormon for record $35 million from Community of Christ

[Tree]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865 ... ty-of.html

[Elizabeth]

They have already given them financial aid over many years.

[Michelle]

Paid for by donors, not the Church.

Thank goodness. I can see a lot of people on this board making a big deal if tithing had been used.

[FTC]

$35 million dollars for some old pieces of paper that will get displayed inside a glass case. Have to wonder what $35 million dollars could have done for, ohhhhhhh, I don't know, maybe some hurricane, flood, earthquake victims? The poor/homeless? Maybe some refugees?

[Elizabeth]

Supporting the wicked of the world is not the only option. Supporting genuine deserving LDS members and building chapels where none are available would be preferable when resources are available. However in this instance the Community of Christ is a worthy cause, and those who purchased the manuscript have a right to decided what they spend their resources on.

Have to wonder what $35 million dollars could have done for, ohhhhhhh, I don't know, maybe some hurricane, flood, earthquake victims? The poor/homeless? Maybe some refugees?

[cyclOps]

$35 million dollars for some old pieces of paper that will get displayed inside a glass case. Have to wonder what $35 million dollars could have done for, ohhhhhhh, I don't know, maybe some hurricane, flood, earthquake victims? The poor/homeless? Maybe some refugees?

Have you ever bought something you didn't really need? Why? Why didn't you donate the money to charity?

[FTC]

$35 million dollars for some old pieces of paper that will get displayed inside a glass case. Have to wonder what $35 million dollars could have done for, ohhhhhhh, I don't know, maybe some hurricane, flood, earthquake victims? The poor/homeless? Maybe some refugees?

Have you ever bought something you didn't really need? Why? Why didn't you donate the money to charity?

Because I'm a greedy, selfish, aggrandizing, megalomaniac. Its easiest to recognize that which one is most familiar with.

[e-eye2.0]

$35 million dollars for some old pieces of paper that will get displayed inside a glass case. Have to wonder what $35 million dollars could have done for, ohhhhhhh, I don't know, maybe some hurricane, flood, earthquake victims? The poor/homeless? Maybe some refugees?

Have you ever bought something you didn't really need? Why? Why didn't you donate the money to charity?

Because I'm a greedy, selfish, aggrandizing, megalomaniac. Its easiest to recognize that which one is most familiar with.

Well then, maybe you can cast the first stone if you ever overcome those things. Until then good luck.

[Tree]

Oh the Humanity!!!

[David13]

$35 million dollars for some old pieces of paper that will get displayed inside a glass case. Have to wonder what $35 million dollars could have done for, ohhhhhhh, I don't know, maybe some hurricane, flood, earthquake victims? The poor/homeless? Maybe some refugees?

I don't agree that you "help" the poor, the homeless nor refugees, by giving them money. I think that just becomes enabling.
dc

[Michelle]

$35 million dollars for some old pieces of paper that will get displayed inside a glass case. Have to wonder what $35 million dollars could have done for, ohhhhhhh, I don't know, maybe some hurricane, flood, earthquake victims? The poor/homeless? Maybe some refugees?

Again, paid for by donors. Not the Church.

[FTC]

$35 million dollars for some old pieces of paper that will get displayed inside a glass case. Have to wonder what $35 million dollars could have done for, ohhhhhhh, I don't know, maybe some hurricane, flood, earthquake victims? The poor/homeless? Maybe some refugees?

Again, paid for by donors. Not the Church.

"Though reasonable efforts will be made globally to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission."

Donations. That came from...... donors. Hmmmmmmmm

I remember a time in church history when wordplay was employed to pull the wool over people's eyes about polygamy, plural marriage, spiritual wifery, celestial marriage, et. al.

[Robin Hood]

It will keep the Community of Christ going for a few more years.
Their financial situation is dire, so this will help.
I remember they were given $40 million by a generous member about 18 or 19 years ago and they spent a great deal of it on their "Transformation 2000" initiative. They employed ministers all over the place and really thought this would lead to growth. It was a disaster and all those ministers, and more, have been laid off. The money's gone.
I expect they won't be so foolhardy this time.

However, in my view it is only a matter of time before they sell the Kirtland Temple to us for mega money.

[kittycat51]

It will keep the Community of Christ going for a few more years.
Their financial situation is dire, so this will help.
I remember they were given $40 million by a generous member about 18 or 19 years ago and they spent a great deal of it on their "Transformation 2000" initiative. They employed ministers all over the place and really thought this would lead to grown. It was a disaster and all those ministers, and more, have been laid off. The money's gone.
I expect they won't be so foolhardy this time.

However, in my view it is only a matter of time before they sell the Kirtland Temple to us for mega money.

This is exactly what I was thinking! In time they will go bankrupt and then maybe the Kirtland temple will come back to it's rightful owners.

[Robin Hood]

They have already given them financial aid over many years.

This is one of those myths we're so good at perpetuating.
The LDS Church has never given a penny to the Community of Christ.

[Robin Hood]

According to the announcement by Stephen Veasey (President of the Community of Christ), the $35 million is going to be used to support the church's pension liabilities for their retired ministers. Additionally, they are disposing of $25 million worth of real estate for the same reason.

According to the statement, they have been negotiating for the sale of the Printers Manuscript for a year. In light of this, I find the following statement interesting:
"Negotiations are continuing to sell other historical assets not essential to mission."

[Elizabeth]

This was told to me, in more detail, by LDS Priesthood leaders at both Nauvoo and Independence.

They have already given them financial aid over many years.

This is one of those myths we're so good at perpetuating.
The LDS Church has never given a penny to the Community of Christ.

[oneClimbs]

Printers manuscript of the Book of Mormon considered "historical assets not essential to mission." On the one had you could say, "Wow, are you saying the Book of Mormon is not essential to your mission? What became of those claiming to be Joseph's church?" On the other hand, they are just old papers, if we have digital scans of them and the words then I'm not sure owning the originals makes sense. If you don't want to trust digital, print them out on some new paper and store those too.

Here's what they had to say: "...the church’s use of the Book of Mormon as scripture and our appreciation and respect for our history are not dependent on owning the printer’s manuscript. Letting go of this document does not affect the rights of Community of Christ to publish and protect the copyrights of its editions of the Book of Mormon. When a decision had to be made, we chose the well-being of people and preserving the current and future mission of the church over owning this document."

I think that is a sound decision on their part especially if they are struggling. In a way, that $35m amount can go a long way to help an organization that still owns many significant sites important to LDS history. If it helps them as an organization keep doing what they are doing then you can see that as a good investment in many other respects.

Another quote, "But for actual dollars paid, this does set a record, and it will get the world's attention..." Maybe the amount was also significant to catch the eyes of the news. Maybe it will get people asking, "Wow, they really value the Book of Mormon and they put their money where their mouth is." Maybe that might get some people interested in the Book of Mormon. I'm thinking of the pearl of great price parable as well.

There are many ways to look at this, here are several:

A) There goes the church abusing funds and resources to buy pointless things that don't help people personally.
B) The church is just trying to secure items that rightfully belong to it that are of historical value.
C) The church is securing the documents to protect them because they are probably the best equipped to do so.
D) Private donors paid for them, so what.
E) The church is helping fund the CofC to make sure other assets are secure that they keep watch over.
F) Gaddiantons have taken over the church and are buying up historical documents to open a museum and charge the public to get power and gain.
G) The church wanted to draw more attention in the media to the Book of Mormon in hopes that it will draw interest to the scripture itself.
H) A mix of many reasons that very very strategic and clever.
I) A complete waste of resources.

Again, it's just old paper, but it can also be seen as a symbol in some respects. Unless someone has inside info of what actually went on, none of us know. It's hard to judge from the outside - always. Personally if donors paid for it (like real donors such as Marriott, etc.) no biggie, great, we have another historical artifact, it'll be cool to see in the visitors center in person where it will be accessible to many members and visitors.

Having assets like this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Think of the parable of the talents. The servants were given resources that they were expected to invest and grow. The Nephites in the Book of Mormon became rich and prosperous. As long as those things are being managed well, I don't see much of an issue.

Helping the poor isn't just about throwing money at them and that's the first thing people say, "That money could have gone to the poor!" Let me say from experience that the poor need more than just money. That's like putting someone on cholesterol medication to treat symptoms rather than addressing the main issue: change your diet. But diets, lifestyles, habits, and traditions are hard to change. The church does a ton, and so do members, and so do many other organizations. Nobody is starving to death in this country, and some people are extremely hard to impossible to help. The vast majority of people at least in this country can live like kings compared to many in the 3rd world. In other countries, you can't just give people money, for lasting change, you have to change their entire environment which is a herculean task. Anyway, blah blah blah.

Not everyone will agree with all of my points and I don't know if I do as well, consider these just potential ideas that can add to the discussion.

[captainfearnot]

Paid for by donors, not the Church.

Thank goodness. I can see a lot of people on this board making a big deal if tithing had been used.

Aren't tithepayers donors?

How do we know that these wealthy donors, whoever they may be, didn't count this donation as their tithe?

[Gage]

How do we know that these wealthy donors, whoever they may be, didn't count this donation as their tithe?
[/quote]


I am sure they did, or if by "donors" they mean the Church members tithes. The Church buying this manuscript would be like the equivalent of me buying a Big Mac.

[captainfearnot]

The Church buying this manuscript would be like the equivalent of me buying a Big Mac.

Then you could characterize the Church's annual humanitarian giving the same way, as the amounts are comparable.

[Gage]

The Church buying this manuscript would be like the equivalent of me buying a Big Mac.

Then you could characterize the Church's annual humanitarian giving the same way, as the amounts are comparable.

I suppose, there is more to running the Mormon church then just writing checks for humanitarian aid. I suppose the Church sends more than most for these efforts, meanwhile everyone has a Chapel to attend and a Temple nearby.

[captainfearnot]

I suppose, there is more to running the Mormon church then just writing checks for humanitarian aid. I suppose the Church sends more than most for these efforts, meanwhile everyone has a Chapel to attend and a Temple nearby.

I'm not minimizing the Church's humanitarian efforts, I'm disputing your claim that $35,000,000 is an inconsequential amount. If $40,000,000 is an impressive sum to contribute to humanitarian aid, then $35,000,000 is a significant amount to spend on holy relics.

On the other hand, if $35,000,000 is chump change to the Church—as you put it, like a normal person "buying a Big Mac"—then they should be embarrassed at the paltry sum that they are contributing to humanitarian aid each year. If you earn $50k and pay a full tithe, then your annual charitable contributions would buy a thousand Big Macs.

[Elizabeth]

Everyone does not have "a Chapel to attend and a Temple nearby."

... meanwhile everyone has a Chapel to attend and a Temple nearby.

[Robin Hood]

This was told to me, in more detail, by LDS Priesthood leaders at both Nauvoo and Independence.

They have already given them financial aid over many years.

This is one of those myths we're so good at perpetuating.
The LDS Church has never given a penny to the Community of Christ.

It's not true though.