Bombing in London

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BYULAWGUY
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Bombing in London

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Robin Hood
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Robin Hood »

Looks to me like an attempted bombing gone wrong.
Also, appears to be a change in tactics as the bomb was left on a train with a timing device. No suicide mission this time.

tribrac
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by tribrac »

At the risk of being accused of speculating and thereby offending Theresa May, I want to say I read reports that many of those injured were injured by the stamped of people trying to flee.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Robin Hood »

tribrac wrote: September 15th, 2017, 9:12 am At the risk of being accused of speculating and thereby offending Theresa May, I want to say I read reports that many of those injured were injured by the stamped of people trying to flee.
That's what the BBC are reporting.

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David13
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by David13 »

One of the first rules is ... DO NOT PANIC!!
Yet it is one of the most common base human reactions.
Think first. Think then act. Stop and use your God given wits to assess and determine the best course of action. Think fast, yes, but think first, then act fast.
I believe it is a part of the British mentality of disarmament. If you are limited by law to not being able to defend yourself, you get into a mentality that you have no choice but to run like a scared rat. Thus thinking is discouraged, that is done by the government for you, and you only can react in an animal like sense and run like crazy. Scatter like rats, or like cockroaches when the light is turned on.
Panic can and usually does make the situation worse. So remember the rule. I cannot emphasize that enough. In any crisis scenario, DO NOT PANIC.
Think first, then act fast.
dc

Fiannan
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Fiannan »

Robin Hood wrote: September 15th, 2017, 7:17 am Looks to me like an attempted bombing gone wrong.
Also, appears to be a change in tactics as the bomb was left on a train with a timing device. No suicide mission this time.
So if it were successful would the bomber still get his 72 white virgins in heaven?

tribrac
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by tribrac »

Hearing people were stampeding made me feel odd. I can't really explain it, and it seems a little nonsensical to me even now. I would think the news of a bomb on a train would be shocking, but I guess I have heard so many reports of bombs, or knives, or trucks that I have become numb to it. But hearing of people stampeding caused a sinking feeling in my stomach.

I have seen animals in large herds, react to their instinct for self preservation, and the basic animal instinct for survival is so strong, the animals will crowd and stamp their fellow animals until some are injured and some die. But humans are supposed to be better than that, our heroes are men and women who in the face of threat or certain death willingly chose self-sacrifice for the good of others.

I don't blame the people who stampeded, I have no delusion that I wouldn't behave the same way. I am angry at the cowards who attacked, who want to rob others of life, security and now even our humanity.

Michelle
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Michelle »

tribrac wrote: September 15th, 2017, 10:24 am Hearing people were stampeding made me feel odd. I can't really explain it, and it seems a little nonsensical to me even now. I would think the news of a bomb on a train would be shocking, but I guess I have heard so many reports of bombs, or knives, or trucks that I have become numb to it. But hearing of people stampeding caused a sinking feeling in my stomach.

I have seen animals in large herds, react to their instinct for self preservation, and the basic animal instinct for survival is so strong, the animals will crowd and stamp their fellow animals until some are injured and some die. But humans are supposed to be better than that, our heroes are men and women who in the face of threat or certain death willingly chose self-sacrifice for the good of others.

I don't blame the people who stampeded, I have no delusion that I wouldn't behave the same way. I am angry at the cowards who attacked, who want to rob others of life, security and now even our humanity.
I think this instinct applies not just to potentially deadly situations, but to anything we feel may change our lives and traditions in ways we don't like.

I feel the same fear and confusion from people if I talk about homeschool. Many people instantly become defensive, even though I am not attacking their choice, only explaining mine. If it is bad among the common man it is worse among those who work for schools. I get it. When has their life not revolved around school? From anywhere from age 3-5, depending on if they attended headstart, they have spent every day at school. Elementary, Middle, High School, College, and then back to school for a job. Many literally cannot imagine life without school whether a student or teacher because they cannot remember life without school. The idea that a world exists outside of school and that they might have to actually live in that world, is like sending them to a foreign country to live.

The ferocity with which people attack when they feel attacked, even if it is not so, is astounding. One of my biggest problems in my current ward is that so many of the members are teachers or administrators first and members second. When I first moved in the RS presidency came to visit. As they were asking questions to get to know me (I was very pregnant with my sixth at the time) I acknowledged that I was going to have the baby at home, I could see them get visibly uncomfortable. They shifted the topic to my other kids and how they like their new school, I acknowledged that I home school and one sister in particular got very annoyed and did not say another word the whole visit. They left soon after.

I have been in as many wards as I am years old, and every ward has its good and bad, up and down, quirks, etc., but all have been wonderful experiences where I felt welcome and the Spirit was present. This ward. . . I have been verbally attacked more than once and I am so grateful to be in the nursery now instead of in RS and sunday school. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way since others have come and gone from the ward since and expressed the same experience. Truth, or much that is traditional mormonism, is not welcome in this ward. Even as I say that I want to say that the Bishop is obviously a man who loves the Lord, the ward and does his best. I really feel for him.

I think most of it has to do with the age of the majority of the women, the choices they made in their lives during the 60s, 70s, and 80s that countered what the prophets taught that has led them to create their own doctrine about the gospel, family, and the church that they perpetuate in defense of their self esteem.

Anyway, long post, maybe too off topic. But I feel like this ward emotionally tramples anyone who subscribes to the actual words of the prophets and scriptures. I feel like the world emotionally tramples people that they feel interfere with their hedonism and moral relativism. So, I guess that goes along with being willing to physically trample those who might be in the way of physical safety, even when the danger is not actualized, but more perceived.

Gage
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Gage »

When people panic like that they stop acting like individuals and do what everyone else is doing. Everyone just follows the crowd without thinking. Most people have no idea why they are going where they’re going, except for the fact that everybody else is headed that way. Humans get pretty close to the same level as animals during events like this.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Robin Hood »

Fiannan wrote: September 15th, 2017, 10:09 am
Robin Hood wrote: September 15th, 2017, 7:17 am Looks to me like an attempted bombing gone wrong.
Also, appears to be a change in tactics as the bomb was left on a train with a timing device. No suicide mission this time.
So if it were successful would the bomber still get his 72 white virgins in heaven?
Yes, but they would all be wrinkley old nuns.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Elizabeth »

Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the “fireball which flew down a carriage” at Parsons Green station, in London’s southwest, the fifth designated terrorist attack in Britain this year… the bucket bomb, which only partially exploded, was hidden in a plastic bucket inside a supermarket freezer bag and was a crudely designed device similar to the Boston Marathon bomb.

Security experts suggested it may have exploded sooner than expected because the train, which was headed to central London, was above ground. 29 people hospitalised

Police have also swooped on a Tube station in West London after reports a man was brandishing a knife. Officers stopped a man who was carrying the large weapon.

THE UK has raised its terror alert to the highest level of “critical”. Troops deployed to guard streets, landmarks and transport hubs across the UK.

Soldiers replaced police officers “on guard duties at certain protected sites which are not accessible to the public. The public will see more armed police on the transport network and on our streets, providing extra protection,” Mrs. May said.

As part of the tighter security measures, police will stop and search members of the public using counter-terrorism powers. Cars will also be subjected to road checks, Mr Rowley said.

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David13
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by David13 »

Michelle wrote: September 15th, 2017, 1:13 pm
tribrac wrote: September 15th, 2017, 10:24 am Hearing people were stampeding made me feel odd. I can't really explain it, and it seems a little nonsensical to me even now. I would think the news of a bomb on a train would be shocking, but I guess I have heard so many reports of bombs, or knives, or trucks that I have become numb to it. But hearing of people stampeding caused a sinking feeling in my stomach.

I have seen animals in large herds, react to their instinct for self preservation, and the basic animal instinct for survival is so strong, the animals will crowd and stamp their fellow animals until some are injured and some die. But humans are supposed to be better than that, our heroes are men and women who in the face of threat or certain death willingly chose self-sacrifice for the good of others.

I don't blame the people who stampeded, I have no delusion that I wouldn't behave the same way. I am angry at the cowards who attacked, who want to rob others of life, security and now even our humanity.
I think this instinct applies not just to potentially deadly situations, but to anything we feel may change our lives and traditions in ways we don't like.

I feel the same fear and confusion from people if I talk about homeschool. Many people instantly become defensive, even though I am not attacking their choice, only explaining mine. If it is bad among the common man it is worse among those who work for schools. I get it. When has their life not revolved around school? From anywhere from age 3-5, depending on if they attended headstart, they have spent every day at school. Elementary, Middle, High School, College, and then back to school for a job. Many literally cannot imagine life without school whether a student or teacher because they cannot remember life without school. The idea that a world exists outside of school and that they might have to actually live in that world, is like sending them to a foreign country to live.

The ferocity with which people attack when they feel attacked, even if it is not so, is astounding. One of my biggest problems in my current ward is that so many of the members are teachers or administrators first and members second. When I first moved in the RS presidency came to visit. As they were asking questions to get to know me (I was very pregnant with my sixth at the time) I acknowledged that I was going to have the baby at home, I could see them get visibly uncomfortable. They shifted the topic to my other kids and how they like their new school, I acknowledged that I home school and one sister in particular got very annoyed and did not say another word the whole visit. They left soon after.

I have been in as many wards as I am years old, and every ward has its good and bad, up and down, quirks, etc., but all have been wonderful experiences where I felt welcome and the Spirit was present. This ward. . . I have been verbally attacked more than once and I am so grateful to be in the nursery now instead of in RS and sunday school. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way since others have come and gone from the ward since and expressed the same experience. Truth, or much that is traditional mormonism, is not welcome in this ward. Even as I say that I want to say that the Bishop is obviously a man who loves the Lord, the ward and does his best. I really feel for him.

I think most of it has to do with the age of the majority of the women, the choices they made in their lives during the 60s, 70s, and 80s that countered what the prophets taught that has led them to create their own doctrine about the gospel, family, and the church that they perpetuate in defense of their self esteem.

Anyway, long post, maybe too off topic. But I feel like this ward emotionally tramples anyone who subscribes to the actual words of the prophets and scriptures. I feel like the world emotionally tramples people that they feel interfere with their hedonism and moral relativism. So, I guess that goes along with being willing to physically trample those who might be in the way of physical safety, even when the danger is not actualized, but more perceived.

Curious as to where this ward is located. Even my California ward didn't seem that "modern" but maybe I didn't get into that level of involvement.
dc

Michelle
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Posts: 1795

Re: Bombing in London

Post by Michelle »

David13 wrote: September 15th, 2017, 5:46 pm
Michelle wrote: September 15th, 2017, 1:13 pm
tribrac wrote: September 15th, 2017, 10:24 am Hearing people were stampeding made me feel odd. I can't really explain it, and it seems a little nonsensical to me even now. I would think the news of a bomb on a train would be shocking, but I guess I have heard so many reports of bombs, or knives, or trucks that I have become numb to it. But hearing of people stampeding caused a sinking feeling in my stomach.

I have seen animals in large herds, react to their instinct for self preservation, and the basic animal instinct for survival is so strong, the animals will crowd and stamp their fellow animals until some are injured and some die. But humans are supposed to be better than that, our heroes are men and women who in the face of threat or certain death willingly chose self-sacrifice for the good of others.

I don't blame the people who stampeded, I have no delusion that I wouldn't behave the same way. I am angry at the cowards who attacked, who want to rob others of life, security and now even our humanity.
I think this instinct applies not just to potentially deadly situations, but to anything we feel may change our lives and traditions in ways we don't like.

I feel the same fear and confusion from people if I talk about homeschool. Many people instantly become defensive, even though I am not attacking their choice, only explaining mine. If it is bad among the common man it is worse among those who work for schools. I get it. When has their life not revolved around school? From anywhere from age 3-5, depending on if they attended headstart, they have spent every day at school. Elementary, Middle, High School, College, and then back to school for a job. Many literally cannot imagine life without school whether a student or teacher because they cannot remember life without school. The idea that a world exists outside of school and that they might have to actually live in that world, is like sending them to a foreign country to live.

The ferocity with which people attack when they feel attacked, even if it is not so, is astounding. One of my biggest problems in my current ward is that so many of the members are teachers or administrators first and members second. When I first moved in the RS presidency came to visit. As they were asking questions to get to know me (I was very pregnant with my sixth at the time) I acknowledged that I was going to have the baby at home, I could see them get visibly uncomfortable. They shifted the topic to my other kids and how they like their new school, I acknowledged that I home school and one sister in particular got very annoyed and did not say another word the whole visit. They left soon after.

I have been in as many wards as I am years old, and every ward has its good and bad, up and down, quirks, etc., but all have been wonderful experiences where I felt welcome and the Spirit was present. This ward. . . I have been verbally attacked more than once and I am so grateful to be in the nursery now instead of in RS and sunday school. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way since others have come and gone from the ward since and expressed the same experience. Truth, or much that is traditional mormonism, is not welcome in this ward. Even as I say that I want to say that the Bishop is obviously a man who loves the Lord, the ward and does his best. I really feel for him.

I think most of it has to do with the age of the majority of the women, the choices they made in their lives during the 60s, 70s, and 80s that countered what the prophets taught that has led them to create their own doctrine about the gospel, family, and the church that they perpetuate in defense of their self esteem.

Anyway, long post, maybe too off topic. But I feel like this ward emotionally tramples anyone who subscribes to the actual words of the prophets and scriptures. I feel like the world emotionally tramples people that they feel interfere with their hedonism and moral relativism. So, I guess that goes along with being willing to physically trample those who might be in the way of physical safety, even when the danger is not actualized, but more perceived.

Curious as to where this ward is located. Even my California ward didn't seem that "modern" but maybe I didn't get into that level of involvement.
dc
Haha, Utah. I am intentionally being vague, because I am posting online.

It isn't the modernism (like supporting gay marriage.)

It's funny to see new people join the ward. They are very much like members from the many wards I have attended. We don't all agree on everything, some work harder than others, but just people right? But the ward natives are different. I was speaking with another sister who has since moved. We were trying to put our finger on it. It is hard to describe, but something like: you can only speak the truth as long as no one could ever be offended by it. It means that even really primary answers might be met with a qualifier by someone in Relief Society. Like the ward highlights (bold, underline, exclamation points!!!) the exceptions instead of teaching the ideal.

This isn't a real example, but like if someone said "The prophet said to read the scriptures everyday." You might hear someone pipe up"But if you are busy the Lord understands, don't worry, you're doing great anyway!" If you quote a prophets about something even more controversial like The Family: A Proclamation to the World saying "Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children." We would never get around to discussing what that actually means because people would gasp, then someone else would apologize to anyone who may have been offended by the comment and reprimand the sister who said it. Then they would spend the balance of the time discussing from every angle all those who can't have children or why people might choose not to have children or why women choose to work outside the home etc. All valid points, not inappropriate to point out, but not the focus of the lesson to the exclusion of the actual words and teachings of the prophets.

Not sure if that helps, there are other problems, but that is one.

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David13
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by David13 »

Michelle wrote: September 15th, 2017, 7:42 pm
David13 wrote: September 15th, 2017, 5:46 pm
Michelle wrote: September 15th, 2017, 1:13 pm
tribrac wrote: September 15th, 2017, 10:24 am Hearing people were stampeding made me feel odd. I can't really explain it, and it seems a little nonsensical to me even now. I would think the news of a bomb on a train would be shocking, but I guess I have heard so many reports of bombs, or knives, or trucks that I have become numb to it. But hearing of people stampeding caused a sinking feeling in my stomach.

I have seen animals in large herds, react to their instinct for self preservation, and the basic animal instinct for survival is so strong, the animals will crowd and stamp their fellow animals until some are injured and some die. But humans are supposed to be better than that, our heroes are men and women who in the face of threat or certain death willingly chose self-sacrifice for the good of others.

I don't blame the people who stampeded, I have no delusion that I wouldn't behave the same way. I am angry at the cowards who attacked, who want to rob others of life, security and now even our humanity.
I think this instinct applies not just to potentially deadly situations, but to anything we feel may change our lives and traditions in ways we don't like.

I feel the same fear and confusion from people if I talk about homeschool. Many people instantly become defensive, even though I am not attacking their choice, only explaining mine. If it is bad among the common man it is worse among those who work for schools. I get it. When has their life not revolved around school? From anywhere from age 3-5, depending on if they attended headstart, they have spent every day at school. Elementary, Middle, High School, College, and then back to school for a job. Many literally cannot imagine life without school whether a student or teacher because they cannot remember life without school. The idea that a world exists outside of school and that they might have to actually live in that world, is like sending them to a foreign country to live.

The ferocity with which people attack when they feel attacked, even if it is not so, is astounding. One of my biggest problems in my current ward is that so many of the members are teachers or administrators first and members second. When I first moved in the RS presidency came to visit. As they were asking questions to get to know me (I was very pregnant with my sixth at the time) I acknowledged that I was going to have the baby at home, I could see them get visibly uncomfortable. They shifted the topic to my other kids and how they like their new school, I acknowledged that I home school and one sister in particular got very annoyed and did not say another word the whole visit. They left soon after.

I have been in as many wards as I am years old, and every ward has its good and bad, up and down, quirks, etc., but all have been wonderful experiences where I felt welcome and the Spirit was present. This ward. . . I have been verbally attacked more than once and I am so grateful to be in the nursery now instead of in RS and sunday school. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way since others have come and gone from the ward since and expressed the same experience. Truth, or much that is traditional mormonism, is not welcome in this ward. Even as I say that I want to say that the Bishop is obviously a man who loves the Lord, the ward and does his best. I really feel for him.

I think most of it has to do with the age of the majority of the women, the choices they made in their lives during the 60s, 70s, and 80s that countered what the prophets taught that has led them to create their own doctrine about the gospel, family, and the church that they perpetuate in defense of their self esteem.

Anyway, long post, maybe too off topic. But I feel like this ward emotionally tramples anyone who subscribes to the actual words of the prophets and scriptures. I feel like the world emotionally tramples people that they feel interfere with their hedonism and moral relativism. So, I guess that goes along with being willing to physically trample those who might be in the way of physical safety, even when the danger is not actualized, but more perceived.

Curious as to where this ward is located. Even my California ward didn't seem that "modern" but maybe I didn't get into that level of involvement.
dc
Haha, Utah. I am intentionally being vague, because I am posting online.

It isn't the modernism (like supporting gay marriage.)

It's funny to see new people join the ward. They are very much like members from the many wards I have attended. We don't all agree on everything, some work harder than others, but just people right? But the ward natives are different. I was speaking with another sister who has since moved. We were trying to put our finger on it. It is hard to describe, but something like: you can only speak the truth as long as no one could ever be offended by it. It means that even really primary answers might be met with a qualifier by someone in Relief Society. Like the ward highlights (bold, underline, exclamation points!!!) the exceptions instead of teaching the ideal.

This isn't a real example, but like if someone said "The prophet said to read the scriptures everyday." You might hear someone pipe up"But if you are busy the Lord understands, don't worry, you're doing great anyway!" If you quote a prophets about something even more controversial like The Family: A Proclamation to the World saying "Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children." We would never get around to discussing what that actually means because people would gasp, then someone else would apologize to anyone who may have been offended by the comment and reprimand the sister who said it. Then they would spend the balance of the time discussing from every angle all those who can't have children or why people might choose not to have children or why women choose to work outside the home etc. All valid points, not inappropriate to point out, but not the focus of the lesson to the exclusion of the actual words and teachings of the prophets.

Not sure if that helps, there are other problems, but that is one.
So what you are saying is they are overly sensitive. That can easily happen amongst members of the church I know.
Particularly if you have very much interaction with the outside world. Where a certain level of rudeness is acceptable and even necessary for the general health of the group.

I saw at FHE the other night. A brother said "I had this Mexican girlfriend, oh, Latina, sorry ..."
I felt like saying sorry for what, Mexican is not a dirty word. But didn't get the chance. But that guy is sort of weird anyway.

I guess I'm in a healthier ward. I went into GD my third week here and the lady in charge pointed at me and said "And where are you visiting from ..." I live here, says I.
She leaned forward and said, almost as if not believing "And where is that?" On XXX West street, says I.
And one of the brothers said loudly, "You'd know these things if you came to church more often." Which almost everyone laughed at. She said "I only missed one week".

We had a lot of humor like that in my old ward in California also. Even some of which was at my expense, as they new guy. Much of which I didn't even understand.

That's part of the fun of it. As one of the the brethren responded to my humor "that's ok, God has a sense of humor".
dc

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Elizabeth
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Elizabeth »

BRITISH police say they have arrested an 18-year-old man in connection with London subway attack.
They say the arrest, in the port area of Dover, is a ‘significant’ breakthrough in their investigation.
But the terror-threat level, currently at “extreme”, has not yet been lowered.

Officials have hinted there may be more than one person involved, but haven’t released details in what is termed an ongoing and covert inquiry.
Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the “fireball which flew down a carriage” at Parsons Green station, in London’s southwest, the fifth designated terrorist attack in Britain this year

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Elizabeth
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Elizabeth »

London hospitals have updated the number of people injured in the terror attack to 30.
POLICE have arrested a second man in connection with the London Tube bombing. A 21-year-old man was arrested in Hounslow, in outer west London.The suspect was taken to a south London police station for questioning and remains in custody.
The arrest is “very significant” and the terror threat level remains “critical”, Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu said.

The latest arrest came several hours after the police arrested the 18 year old suspect and raided the elderly couples’ home where he is believed to have stayed, a number of items were seized in a search of the premises where he was arrested.. The 18-year-old — the youngest to be arrested over a terror attack in the UK — is reported to be a refugee fostered by an elderly couple who were honoured by the Queen for taking in so many children in need.

Another house raided in Cavendish Road, Sunbury-on-Thames belongs to Penelope 71 and Ronald Jones 88, who have cared for 268 foster children including refugees and helped Surrey County Council with its Syrian vulnerable persons relocation scheme.
The elderly couple have been honoured by the Queen for taking in so many children in need.
Neighbours say the couple, who have six children of their own, had started taking foster children again to help refugees from Syria and Iraq. “They have two boys at the moment, both are foreign,” Serena Barber, who lives behind the property said.
"One is very quiet and polite, the other who is 18 is awful. Two weeks ago he was arrested by police at Parsons Green, for what I don’t know and returned back to Penny and Ron. After that Penny said she was going to have to stop caring for him, she couldn’t handle him.”

Alison Griffiths, a Surrey county councillor who knows Mr and Mrs Jones, said they had two young people staying with them — an 18-year-old and a 22-year-old. She described Mr and Mrs Jones as “great pillars of the community”, adding: “They do a job that not many people do.” Ms Griffiths, 42, said the couple may not be able to return home for days as police continue to search their house.

gardener4life
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by gardener4life »

Robin Hood wrote: September 15th, 2017, 9:22 am
tribrac wrote: September 15th, 2017, 9:12 am At the risk of being accused of speculating and thereby offending Theresa May, I want to say I read reports that many of those injured were injured by the stamped of people trying to flee.
That's what the BBC are reporting.
Even though not many or any deaths...one of the articles I saw too said that some of the injured were running out with their faces on fire. So even if they didn't die that's almost worse than it in some ways :S

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Elizabeth
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Re: Bombing in London

Post by Elizabeth »

"British police have arrested two more men in connection with the bombing of a commuter train in London last week which injured 30 people, bringing the total in custody to five. The men, aged 48 and 30, were held under terrorism laws in Newport in south Wales. Another man was arrested in Newport on Tuesday night (local time) while two others, an 18-year-old and a 21-year-old, were held by counter-terrorism officers on Saturday. A total of 36 people have been killed in Britain this year in militant attacks."

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