The watchmen are asleep

[I AM]

quote

In Isaiah we read:

An oracle concerning Dumah:
Men call to me from Seir,
Watchman, what remains of the night?
Watchman, how much of the night is left?
12 The watchman replies,
Morning comes, though it is still night.
If you would ascertain it,
do so by repenting and coming back. (Isaiah 21:11-12)

The Hebrew calendar is a lunar-based calendar. Thus, the cycles of the moon, the rising of the sun, etc. were important events. The law of Moses tied certain practices to time periods set by these events. Thus, it was not uncommon to have a watchman posted so that at the earliest glimpse of the moon rise or sun rise, the people would know that God's timetable had moved to the next phase.

Likewise, God has always appointed watchmen to watch the night. These people are given to be an early warning sign of the things the Lord will do (see Amos 3:7). What's more, these people are meant to be a righteous standard to advance warning against the tide of Babylon among the people.

My Beloved had a vineyard
on the fertile brow of a hill.
2 He cultivated it, clearing it of stones,
and planted it with choice vines.
He built a watchtower in its midst
and hewed for it a winepress as well. (Isaiah 5:1-2)

The Lord is intent is that his vineyard bear fruit---not wild fruit, but his fruit, even eternal life. Throughout history, the priestly class has eventually succumbed to the forces of Babylon through the attrition made possible by supplanting God's word with the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. Isaiah explains it from the Lord's perspective:

3 Now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and you men of Judea,
please judge between me and my vineyard!
4 What more could have been done
for my vineyard than I have done for it?
When I expected it to yield grapes,
why did it produce wild grapes?
5 Let me now inform you
what I will do to my vineyard:
I will have its hedge removed
and let it be burned;
I will have its wall broken through
and let it be trampled.
6 I will make it a desolation:it shall neither be pruned nor hoed,
but briars and thorns shall overgrow it.
Moreover, I will forbid the rainclouds to rain on it.
7 The vineyard of Jehovah of Hosts is the house of Israel
and the people of Judah his cherished grove.
He expected justice,
but there was injustice;
he expected righteousness,
but there was an outcry. (Isiah 5:3-7)

It is important to note that the punishments promised by the Lord aren't actually caused by the Lord. They are a natural result of the drunken stupor and slumber of the watchmen.

So what of the appointed watchmen in the LDS church?

9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest,
come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware;all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark,
lolling seers fond of slumber.
11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable,
such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way,
every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine
and have our fill of liquor.
For tomorrow will be like today, only far better! (Isaiah 56:9-12)

Not only are they not warning, Isaiah reduces them to dogs. It is not only that they choose not to bark, but they are so ignorant of things as they really are, that they are completely blind and unaware of what is actually important, relevant, and timely. Instead, they take their own advice as if it were God's word, they feed on the poor, and keep up their drunken stupor fed by false tradition and hubris. All is well, all is well.

So, if our watchmen are not warning us of the impending destruction, are not leading the charge to deal justly with our poor fellowmen, what are they doing?

Recently, the LDS church has spent a lot of money and time creating and publicizing the movie, "Meet the Mormons."

Consider the following reviews from Rotten Tomatoes:

"Would you go out of your way to see an infomercial that was more than an hour long? Would you even pay for the privilege? That's what "Meet the Mormons" would have filmgoers do."

"Breaks the shocking news that LDS members 'come in all sizes, shapes and colors' and 'love God and believe he has a plan for all of us. Is this news worth $10.50 a ticket?"

"Slick, relentlessly upbeat propaganda that suffers from too many sins of omission."

"Meet the Mormons isn't substantial enough to screen on the first day of LDS 101; the church's most basic tenets - and controversial aspects - are elided completely."

They are spending millions of dollars, and encouraging members to spend even more by seeing the movie, renting out theaters, and spending tons of their own time, publicizing just how un-peculiar a people we are.

If the church were to spend millions of dollars out of their own purse, and encourage millions out of the purse of members, why not actually spread the message that God has asked us to spread, namely, of the destruction coming (D&C 88:81).

"17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul." (Ezekiel 3:17)

Why? Because it would be unpopular. If we spent the millions instead on caring for the poor, and preaching the gospel, we would bring in the types of people that are ready for the message. Instead, we are seeking to be popular. Rotting flesh doesn't attract butterflies...

Brigham Young: "When Mormonism finds favor with the wicked in this land, it will have gone into the shade; but until the power of the Priesthood is gone, Mormonism will never become popular with the wicked." (J.D. 4:38)

"The President [Brigham Young] stopped with us. He sat at the head of the table and had me sit down at his right. The President, when everything was ready,asked a blessing, then all began to eat. He asked for some buttermilk, then crumbled some bread in it and began to eat. He conversed freely on the situation of the Saints in the mountains, and said that he dreaded the time when the Saints would become popular with the world; for he had seen in sorrow, in a dream, or in dreams, this people clothed in the fashions of Babylon, and drinking in the spirit of Babylon until one could hardly tell a Saint from [22] a black-leg. And he felt like shouting, `To your tents, Oh Israel!' because it was the only thing that could keep this people pure. Many of this people for the sake of riches and popularity, will sell themselves for that which will canker their souls and lead them down to misery and despair. It would be better for them to dwell in wigwams among the Indians than to dwell with the gentiles and miss the glories which God wishes them to obtain. I wish my families would see the point and come forth before it is too late. For oh, I can see the tendency in my families to hug the moth eaten customs of Babylon to their bosoms. This is far more hurtful to them than the deadly viper; for the poisons of the viper can be healed by the power of God. but the customs of Babylon will be hard to get rid of."
(Mosiah Hancock Journal, p. 47-48)

Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, 30 Mar. 1990: “In recent years I have felt, and I think I am not alone, that we were losing the ability to correct the course of the Church. You can not appreciate how deeply I feel about the importance of this present opportunity unless you know the regard, the reverence, I have for the Book of Mormon and how seriously I have taken the warnings of the prophets, particularly Alma and Helaman. Both Alma and Helaman told of the church in their day. They warned about fast growth, the desire to be accepted by the world, to be popular, and particularly they warned about prosperity. Each time those conditions existed in combination, the Church drifted off course. All of those conditions are present in the Church today. Helaman repeatedly warned, I think four times he used these words, that the fatal drift of the church could occur ‘in the space of not many years.’ In one instance it took only six years. (See Helaman 6:32, 7:6, 11:26.)” (Transcript of an address given at a Regional Representatives Seminar, 30 March 1990, entitled “Let Them Govern Themselves.”)

This is a fantastic commentary on Isaiah 28. You should listen to it.
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/MP3%20Co ... aiah28.mp3

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary

end quote

[I AM]

Isaiah 56

9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest,
come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware;
all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark,
lolling seers fond of slumber.

Typifying the leaders of Jehovah’s people who make a Covenant with Death instead of a Covenant of Life (Isaiah 28:15, 18), or Jehovah’s wife who turns adulterous (Isaiah 1:21; 50:1), are certain “watchmen”—prophets and seers—who occupy the highest rung of society. Because they epitomize “dumb watchdogs” and “lolling seers,” Jehovah replaces them with a righteous watchman—his servant—and other watchmen: “Go and appoint a watchman who reports what he sees” (Isaiah 21:6); “I have appointed watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem, who shall not be silent day or night” (Isaiah 62:6).

As the job of Jehovah’s watchmen is to report to his people what they see and hear (Isaiah 21:10; 48:16), those who are blind and unaware see and hear little of consequence and fail to warn his people: “Who is blind but my own servant, or so deaf as the messenger I have sent? Who is blind like those I have commissioned, as uncomprehending as the servant of Jehovah—seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:19-20. The final fate of the blind watchmen, literally and figuratively, is to be devoured by wild beasts—a covenant curse (Isaiah 5:29; 15:9; 51:8).

11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable,
such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way,
every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine
and have our fill of liquor.
For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!

Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6). Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8). Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves.

Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink. Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets; he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10).

[Matchmaker]

quote

In Isaiah we read:

An oracle concerning Dumah:
Men call to me from Seir,
Watchman, what remains of the night?
Watchman, how much of the night is left?
12 The watchman replies,
Morning comes, though it is still night.
If you would ascertain it,
do so by repenting and coming back. (Isaiah 21:11-12)

The Hebrew calendar is a lunar-based calendar. Thus, the cycles of the moon, the rising of the sun, etc. were important events. The law of Moses tied certain practices to time periods set by these events. Thus, it was not uncommon to have a watchman posted so that at the earliest glimpse of the moon rise or sun rise, the people would know that God's timetable had moved to the next phase.

Likewise, God has always appointed watchmen to watch the night. These people are given to be an early warning sign of the things the Lord will do (see Amos 3:7). What's more, these people are meant to be a righteous standard to advance warning against the tide of Babylon among the people.

My Beloved had a vineyard
on the fertile brow of a hill.
2 He cultivated it, clearing it of stones,
and planted it with choice vines.
He built a watchtower in its midst
and hewed for it a winepress as well. (Isaiah 5:1-2)

The Lord is intent is that his vineyard bear fruit---not wild fruit, but his fruit, even eternal life. Throughout history, the priestly class has eventually succumbed to the forces of Babylon through the attrition made possible by supplanting God's word with the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. Isaiah explains it from the Lord's perspective:

3 Now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and you men of Judea,
please judge between me and my vineyard!
4 What more could have been done
for my vineyard than I have done for it?
When I expected it to yield grapes,
why did it produce wild grapes?
5 Let me now inform you
what I will do to my vineyard:
I will have its hedge removed
and let it be burned;
I will have its wall broken through
and let it be trampled.
6 I will make it a desolation:it shall neither be pruned nor hoed,
but briars and thorns shall overgrow it.
Moreover, I will forbid the rainclouds to rain on it.
7 The vineyard of Jehovah of Hosts is the house of Israel
and the people of Judah his cherished grove.
He expected justice,
but there was injustice;
he expected righteousness,
but there was an outcry. (Isiah 5:3-7)

It is important to note that the punishments promised by the Lord aren't actually caused by the Lord. They are a natural result of the drunken stupor and slumber of the watchmen.

So what of the appointed watchmen in the LDS church?

9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest,
come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware;all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark,
lolling seers fond of slumber.
11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable,
such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way,
every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine
and have our fill of liquor.
For tomorrow will be like today, only far better! (Isaiah 56:9-12)

Not only are they not warning, Isaiah reduces them to dogs. It is not only that they choose not to bark, but they are so ignorant of things as they really are, that they are completely blind and unaware of what is actually important, relevant, and timely. Instead, they take their own advice as if it were God's word, they feed on the poor, and keep up their drunken stupor fed by false tradition and hubris. All is well, all is well.

So, if our watchmen are not warning us of the impending destruction, are not leading the charge to deal justly with our poor fellowmen, what are they doing?

Recently, the LDS church has spent a lot of money and time creating and publicizing the movie, "Meet the Mormons."

Consider the following reviews from Rotten Tomatoes:

"Would you go out of your way to see an infomercial that was more than an hour long? Would you even pay for the privilege? That's what "Meet the Mormons" would have filmgoers do."

"Breaks the shocking news that LDS members 'come in all sizes, shapes and colors' and 'love God and believe he has a plan for all of us. Is this news worth $10.50 a ticket?"

"Slick, relentlessly upbeat propaganda that suffers from too many sins of omission."

"Meet the Mormons isn't substantial enough to screen on the first day of LDS 101; the church's most basic tenets - and controversial aspects - are elided completely."

They are spending millions of dollars, and encouraging members to spend even more by seeing the movie, renting out theaters, and spending tons of their own time, publicizing just how un-peculiar a people we are.

If the church were to spend millions of dollars out of their own purse, and encourage millions out of the purse of members, why not actually spread the message that God has asked us to spread, namely, of the destruction coming (D&C 88:81).

"17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul." (Ezekiel 3:17)

Why? Because it would be unpopular. If we spent the millions instead on caring for the poor, and preaching the gospel, we would bring in the types of people that are ready for the message. Instead, we are seeking to be popular. Rotting flesh doesn't attract butterflies...

Brigham Young: "When Mormonism finds favor with the wicked in this land, it will have gone into the shade; but until the power of the Priesthood is gone, Mormonism will never become popular with the wicked." (J.D. 4:38)

"The President [Brigham Young] stopped with us. He sat at the head of the table and had me sit down at his right. The President, when everything was ready,asked a blessing, then all began to eat. He asked for some buttermilk, then crumbled some bread in it and began to eat. He conversed freely on the situation of the Saints in the mountains, and said that he dreaded the time when the Saints would become popular with the world; for he had seen in sorrow, in a dream, or in dreams, this people clothed in the fashions of Babylon, and drinking in the spirit of Babylon until one could hardly tell a Saint from [22] a black-leg. And he felt like shouting, `To your tents, Oh Israel!' because it was the only thing that could keep this people pure. Many of this people for the sake of riches and popularity, will sell themselves for that which will canker their souls and lead them down to misery and despair. It would be better for them to dwell in wigwams among the Indians than to dwell with the gentiles and miss the glories which God wishes them to obtain. I wish my families would see the point and come forth before it is too late. For oh, I can see the tendency in my families to hug the moth eaten customs of Babylon to their bosoms. This is far more hurtful to them than the deadly viper; for the poisons of the viper can be healed by the power of God. but the customs of Babylon will be hard to get rid of."
(Mosiah Hancock Journal, p. 47-48)

Boyd K. Packer of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, 30 Mar. 1990: “In recent years I have felt, and I think I am not alone, that we were losing the ability to correct the course of the Church. You can not appreciate how deeply I feel about the importance of this present opportunity unless you know the regard, the reverence, I have for the Book of Mormon and how seriously I have taken the warnings of the prophets, particularly Alma and Helaman. Both Alma and Helaman told of the church in their day. They warned about fast growth, the desire to be accepted by the world, to be popular, and particularly they warned about prosperity. Each time those conditions existed in combination, the Church drifted off course. All of those conditions are present in the Church today. Helaman repeatedly warned, I think four times he used these words, that the fatal drift of the church could occur ‘in the space of not many years.’ In one instance it took only six years. (See Helaman 6:32, 7:6, 11:26.)” (Transcript of an address given at a Regional Representatives Seminar, 30 March 1990, entitled “Let Them Govern Themselves.”)

This is a fantastic commentary on Isaiah 28. You should listen to it.
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/MP3%20Co ... aiah28.mp3

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/28#commentary

end quote

Thank you for posting the link to the commentary on Isaiah 28. I did listen to it and learned a lot.

[4Joshua8]

This talk by Ezra Taft Benson, Watchman Warn the Wicked, reads like it was written for 2020.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... the-wicked

A recent warning from President Nelson:
"In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."

[SPIRIT]

This talk by Ezra Taft Benson, Watchman Warn the Wicked, reads like it was written for 2020.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... the-wicked

A recent warning from President Nelson:
"In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."

sorry, but you have it kinda backwards.
about who the REAL watchman are, and who are the
"dumb watchdogs unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber"

That's the problem - they're NOT WARNING AT ALL !
They're asleep !
These so-called "watchmen, (church leaders) are not watchmen at all

Isaiah 56

9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest,come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware; all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark, lolling seers fond of slumber.

Typifying the leaders of Jehovah’s people who make a Covenant with Death instead of a Covenant of Life (Isaiah 28:15, 18), or Jehovah’s wife who turns adulterous (Isaiah 1:21; 50:1), are certain “watchmen”—prophets and seers—who occupy the highest rung of society. Because they epitomize “dumb watchdogs” and “lolling seers,” Jehovah replaces them with a righteous watchman—his servant—and other watchmen: “Go and appoint a watchman who reports what he sees” (Isaiah 21:6); “I have appointed watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem, who shall not be silent day or night” (Isaiah 62:6).

As the job of Jehovah’s watchmen is to report to his people what they see and hear (Isaiah 21:10; 48:16), those who are blind and unaware see and hear little of consequence and fail to warn his people: “Who is blind but my own servant, or so deaf as the messenger I have sent? Who is blind like those I have commissioned, as uncomprehending as the servant of Jehovah—seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:19-20.
The final fate of the blind watchmen, literally and figuratively, is to be devoured by wild beasts—a covenant curse (Isaiah 5:29; 15:9; 51:8).

11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable, such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way, every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine and have our fill of liquor. For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!

Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6). Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8). Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves.

Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor.
They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink.
Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets; he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10).

[Eulate]

I believe they are not blunt enough on the times where in. Jesus is coming soon. Then again I'm not the prophet.

[Clerkoftheservant]

Of course they are asleep, the prophecy States that when the Davidic servant comes they were all slumbering... To be awake you must be aware of the Lords servant... He is the first trump that announces the bridegroom... He begins to sound in the 6th seal... Near it's end...

[dewajack]

At the same time, Pres. Nelson has been warning the Saints to become spiritually independent with Come Follow Me, relying more on The Spirit, and ministering. All of which are aimed at us not relying on the arm of flesh. I take those things as warnings.

[Clerkoftheservant]

Yes, because he is still the prophet. But what could he teach if the virgins we're awake. Although one of the children of the bride chamber the prophet does not wake the virgin, rather it's Elias.

[BeNotDeceived]

Many doth sleep , but not Alister Crowley .

[Hosh]

At the same time, Pres. Nelson has been warning the Saints to become spiritually independent with Come Follow Me, relying more on The Spirit, and ministering. All of which are aimed at us not relying on the arm of flesh. I take those things as warnings.

As long as we have church leaders setting parameters on what we can and cannot recievethrough revelation from God, members will have a great stumbling block to overcome, and will find it extremely difficult to ever be completely spiritually independent.

[MikeMaillet]

Our watchmen are too busy with urban renewal projects and building large shopping malls. I'm assuming that the City Creek mall is now closed and collecting dust(?).

[AlbedoEffect]

Perhaps the newly assigned watchmen are not people of rank, but people who are learned and observant.
The Son of Man IS coming, though he may yet be a little ways off. But this much is clear, His coming is no longer “ He will come soon,” but is now “he IS coming soon.”

[Pazooka]

Isaiah 56

9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest,
come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware;
all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark,
lolling seers fond of slumber.

Typifying the leaders of Jehovah’s people who make a Covenant with Death instead of a Covenant of Life (Isaiah 28:15, 18), or Jehovah’s wife who turns adulterous (Isaiah 1:21; 50:1), are certain “watchmen”—prophets and seers—who occupy the highest rung of society. Because they epitomize “dumb watchdogs” and “lolling seers,” Jehovah replaces them with a righteous watchman—his servant—and other watchmen: “Go and appoint a watchman who reports what he sees” (Isaiah 21:6); “I have appointed watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem, who shall not be silent day or night” (Isaiah 62:6).

As the job of Jehovah’s watchmen is to report to his people what they see and hear (Isaiah 21:10; 48:16), those who are blind and unaware see and hear little of consequence and fail to warn his people: “Who is blind but my own servant, or so deaf as the messenger I have sent? Who is blind like those I have commissioned, as uncomprehending as the servant of Jehovah—seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:19-20. The final fate of the blind watchmen, literally and figuratively, is to be devoured by wild beasts—a covenant curse (Isaiah 5:29; 15:9; 51:8).

11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable,
such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way,
every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine
and have our fill of liquor.
For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!

Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6). Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8). Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves.

Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink. Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets; he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10).

That is exactly what I was thinking to myself during this past conference. I thought, “these guys are drunk.” Drunk on adoration and...I just can’t pinpoint what else. But the praise that gets exchanged between authorities during talks has bothered me for a while. I despise the flattery that gets dished out to members of the Church too. Add that to the total lack of revelation and what you’re left with is smoke and mirrors.

[MikeMaillet]

Perhaps the newly assigned watchmen are not people of rank, but people who are learned and observant.
The Son of Man IS coming, though he may yet be a little ways off. But this much is clear, His coming is no longer “ He will come soon,” but is now “he IS coming soon.”

Have a look at D&C 98:10

Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil.

Mike

[lundbaek]

"Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil." Thank you, Mike, for calling attention to this statement given by the Lord in D&C.

I do think, however, that too many voters, even LDS voters, have a misconception of what constitutes "wise men". For example, so many LDS voters assume that because a candidate for elected government office is super active LDS (been a bishop, stake president, etc.), highly successful in business, nice family, etc., he would naturally be a good government executive or legislative official. It seems most do not consider that person's knowledge of and loyalty to the principles of the US Constitution, courage to acknowledge all the tenets of his religion, and determination to oppose "a woman's right to choose".

[Chip]

"Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil." Thank you, Mike, for calling attention to this statement given by the Lord in D&C.

I do think, however, that too many voters, even LDS voters, have a misconception of what constitutes "wise men". For example, so many LDS voters assume that because a candidate for elected government office is super active LDS (been a bishop, stake president, etc.), highly successful in business, nice family, etc., he would naturally be a good government executive or legislative official. It seems most do not consider that person's knowledge of and loyalty to the principles of the US Constitution, courage to acknowledge all the tenets of his religion, and determination to oppose "a woman's right to choose".

Mormons could have supported Ron Paul, a verifiable constitutionalist, for president. Instead, they supported on-brand Romney. This was all from follow-the-leader programming at church. Looks like that programming is now being used to drift us into the Beast system, under Agenda 2030.

[Chip]

Looking back, I thought it odd how our leaders made veiled anti-Trump comments, revealing their own case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. If the church is in support of U.N. Agenda 2030, this all makes sense now.

[lundbaek]

"Mormons could have supported Ron Paul, a verifiable constitutionalist, for president. Instead, they supported on-brand Romney." Truth be known, I think most American Latter-day Saints have no knowledge of nor appreciation of the US Constitution.

Recently I told here that our stake president in 1987 discussed with his counselors the October 1987 Conference statement that "We must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers", and decided to do nothing about it. Do any of you folks recall hearing anything more about it from the stake and ward levels?

[Refraction75]

Isaiah 56

9 All you wild beasts, you animals of the forest,
come and devour!
10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware;
all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark,
lolling seers fond of slumber.

Typifying the leaders of Jehovah’s people who make a Covenant with Death instead of a Covenant of Life (Isaiah 28:15, 18), or Jehovah’s wife who turns adulterous (Isaiah 1:21; 50:1), are certain “watchmen”—prophets and seers—who occupy the highest rung of society. Because they epitomize “dumb watchdogs” and “lolling seers,” Jehovah replaces them with a righteous watchman—his servant—and other watchmen: “Go and appoint a watchman who reports what he sees” (Isaiah 21:6); “I have appointed watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem, who shall not be silent day or night” (Isaiah 62:6).

As the job of Jehovah’s watchmen is to report to his people what they see and hear (Isaiah 21:10; 48:16), those who are blind and unaware see and hear little of consequence and fail to warn his people: “Who is blind but my own servant, or so deaf as the messenger I have sent? Who is blind like those I have commissioned, as uncomprehending as the servant of Jehovah—seeing much but not giving heed, with open ears hearing nothing?” (Isaiah 42:19-20. The final fate of the blind watchmen, literally and figuratively, is to be devoured by wild beasts—a covenant curse (Isaiah 5:29; 15:9; 51:8).

11 Gluttonous dogs, and insatiable,
such indeed are insensible shepherds.
They are all diverted to their own way,
every one after his own advantage.
12 Come, they say, let us get wine
and have our fill of liquor.
For tomorrow will be like today, only far better!

Instead of portraying these watchmen as ones who feed and protect the flock (Isaiah 5:17; 40:11; 63:11), the imagery of shepherds as dogs characterizes them as predators and unclean animals (Psalm 22:16; 1 Kings 14:11; Matthew 7:6). Instead of warning of trouble as Jehovah’s Day of Judgment approaches, they resemble wanton herdsmen who scatter the sheep and feed themselves off the fattest (Jeremiah 23:1-2; 50:6-7; Ezekiel 34:1-8). Instead of serving as proxy saviors to Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 37:35; 63:17; 65:8), they look out for themselves.

Word links round out the shepherds’ recriminatory state: “These too have indulged in wine and are giddy with strong drink: priests and prophets have gone astray through liquor. They are intoxicated with wine and stagger because of strong drink; they err as seers, they blunder in their decisions” (Isaiah 28:7); “Procrastinate, and become bewildered; preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help. Be drunk, but not with wine; stagger, but not from strong drink. Jehovah has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep: he has shut your eyes, the prophets; he has covered your heads, the seers” (Isaiah 29:9-10).

Amos CHAPTER 3

The Lord reveals His secrets unto His servants the prophets—Because Israel rejects the prophets and follows evil, the nation is overwhelmed by an adversary.


1 Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

4 Will a lion roar in the forest, when he hath no prey? will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing?

5 Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin is for him? shall one take up a snare from the earth, and have taken nothing at all?

6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

8 The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord God hath spoken, who can but prophesy?

9 ¶ Publish in the palaces at Ashdod, and in the palaces in the land of Egypt, and say, Assemble yourselves upon the mountains of Samaria, and behold the great tumults in the midst thereof, and the oppressed in the midst thereof.

10 For they know not to do right, saith the Lord, who store up violence and robbery in their palaces.

11 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; An adversary there shall be even round about the land; and he shall bring down thy strength from thee, and thy palaces shall be spoiled.

12 Thus saith the Lord; As the shepherd taketh out of the mouth of the lion two legs, or a piece of an ear; so shall the children of Israel be taken out that dwell in Samaria in the corner of a bed, and in Damascus in a couch.

13 Hear ye, and testify in the house of Jacob, saith the Lord God, the God of hosts,

14 That in the day that I shall visit the transgressions of Israel upon him I will also visit the altars of a Beth-el: and the horns of the altar shall be cut off, and fall to the ground.

15 And I will smite the winter house with the summer house; and the houses of ivory shall perish, and the great houses shall have an end, saith the Lord.



CHAPTER 4

The Lord withholds rain, sends famine and pestilence, and destroys gardens and vineyards as judgments upon His people, yet they do not return unto the Lord.

1 Hear this word, ye kine of Bashan, that are in the mountain of Samaria, which oppress the poor, which crush the needy, which say to their masters, Bring, and let us drink.

2 The Lord God hath sworn by his holiness, that, lo, the days shall come upon you, that he will take you away with hooks, and your posterity with fishhooks.

3 And ye shall go out at the breaches, every cow at that which is before her; and ye shall cast them into the palace, saith the Lord.

4 ¶ Come to Beth-el, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:

5 And offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving with leaven, and proclaim and publish the free offerings: for this liketh you, O ye children of Israel, saith the Lord God.

6 ¶ And I also have given you cleanness of teeth in all your cities, and want of bread in all your places: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.

7 And also I have withholden the rain from you, when there were yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one city, and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered.

8 So two or three cities wandered unto one city, to drink water; but they were not satisfied: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.

9 I have smitten you with blasting and mildew: when your gardens and your vineyards and your fig trees and your olive trees increased, the palmerworm devoured them: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.

10 I have sent among you the pestilence after the manner of Egypt: your young men have I slain with the sword, and have taken away your horses; and I have made the stink of your camps to come up unto your nostrils: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.

11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord.

12 Therefore thus will I do unto thee, O Israel: and because I will do this unto thee, prepare to meet thy God, O Israel.

13 For, lo, he that formeth the mountains, and createth the wind, and declareth unto man what is his thought, that maketh the morning darkness, and treadeth upon the high places of the earth, The Lord, The God of hosts, is his name.


This destruction came because they rejected the prophets. The people in general needed to listen to the prophets to repent and turn back to God. They needed to repent and follow the living prophets again. Did they? No. They did not listen to his holy spirit nor the voice of warnings coming from the prophets. They went to his holy house unworthy... once a blessing to go to the alters of Beth-el turned into cursing at the house of beth-el. God cursed and destroyed them with famine and pestilence. He will do this again I believe.

Too many then and now reject the words of the prophets. They don't heed their warning voice. I have been blessed personally through modern prophetic warnings. But unlike any other dispensation, you must understand the Lord allows the wheat and the tares to grow up together in his house before the great and final harvest. The prophetic warnings are still there...it just takes the holy spirit to distinguish it. It is not meant for the tares to understand. Like the Pharisees and the Sadducees in Christ's day. They knew scriptures but were unable to see spiritual things and recognize Christ.

Christ will come. He will sort out this mess of a world we have now. Faith will return for some. If you believe there are living prophets or not is completely up to you. I know what side I will be on. The side of faith and belief. The side full continual personal revelation. The side that leaves me feeling uplifted and not in despair because of my relationship with God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. The side that God still loves his children and prophets still do walk the earth today.

[Rand]

I think you are missing who the watchmen are. They are the priesthood as a whole that when ordained are given a call to be watchmen on the tower.
I think the brethren are doing fine, it is the average member of each quorum in the priesthood that is asleep. They are the ones that are not answering the call.
You draw from the scriptures what you want, I don't see it that way. I think the brethren have done a marvelous job in the world we live in in warning us, inviting us and encouraging us to step up and walk the walk and talk the talk, but most members of the church, and especially those who are ordained to the priesthood are "drunk" and "asleep", and their hedges are about to be broken up.
A more direct message of repentance would attract unneeded attention to the Church now. They are being clear as crystal to those who have ears to hear.
Elder Christofferson recently taught: While the duty to warn is felt especially keenly by prophets, it is a duty shared by others as well. In fact, “it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.”11 We who have received a knowledge of the great plan of happiness—and its implementing commandments—should feel a desire to share that knowledge since it makes all the difference here and in eternity. And if we ask, “Who is my neighbor that I should warn?” surely the answer will be found in a parable that begins, “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves,”12 and so forth.

Considering the parable of the good Samaritan in this context reminds us that the question “Who is my neighbor?” was tied to the two great commandments: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.”13 The motivation for raising the warning voice is love—love of God and love of fellowman. To warn is to care. The Lord instructs that it is to be done “in mildness and in meekness”14 and “by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness … , and by love unfeigned.”15 It can be urgent, as when we warn a child not to put his or her hand in a fire. It must be clear and sometimes firm. On occasion, warning may take the form of reproof “when moved upon by the Holy Ghost,”16 but always it is rooted in love. Witness, for example, the love that motivates the service and sacrifices of our missionaries."
We are all watchmen. We have been warned! I believe we would be wise to warn out neighbors to follow the prophet, not to take it upon yourself to distance them from the prophet. You can quickly become the one who breaks down the hedge and harms the vineyard.
The brethren are not drunk, the membership of our priesthood quorums as a whole are certainly asleep and many of them are drunk.
We have and are being warned. If we follow the counsel given, and expand our revelatory capacity as we have been counseled, we will do fine in the coming days of tribulation and purification. If we choose not to, they will be most trying and purifying, in very painful ways.
Elder Christofferson continues: The Lord has declared, “The voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.”28 As watchmen and disciples, we cannot be neutral about this “more excellent way.”29 As Ezekiel, we cannot see the sword coming upon the land “and blow not the trumpet.”30 This is not to say that we should bang on our neighbor’s door or stand in the public square shouting, “Repent!” Truly, when you think about it, we have in the restored gospel what people, deep down, really want. So the warning voice is generally not only civil, but in the Psalmist’s phrase, it is a “joyful noise.”

We have been warned. But most are still asleep it seems.
DC 1:4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these clast days.
5 And they shall ago forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them.
6 Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth.
7 Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them shall be fulfilled.

[lundbaek]

"I think you are missing who the watchmen are. They are the priesthood as a whole that when ordained are given a call to be watchmen on the tower.
I think the brethren are doing fine, it is the average member of each quorum in the priesthood that is asleep. They are the ones that are not answering the call."

ABSOLUTELY! Latter-day prophets and apostles have told us - even commanded us - what to do to avoid our current "awful situation", and I think the ball was dropped at the stake presidents' and bishops' level, although others could have picked it up and run with it.

[Chip]

So, how can it be explained that The Church, led by prophets, is nowadays supporting Agenda 21?

[David13]

The sad thing to me is how many in the church have confused the New World Order with a global spread of the gospel.

They are two distinctly different things.

The NWO will not allow any ... "gospel", and to the contrary will seize all church property to use for their purposes.

As the world government will be your new god, and a jealous god at that, tolerating no other gods or ... God, nor churches.

Those won't be necessary, as you will now be equal, and subject to total control and will worship government as your god.

And many in this church will say, "oh, it's better that way. It's for our own good. And, it's to make us ... 'safe'"

Brothers and sisters, they have already done it. They have already done it to you. When was the last time you were in chapel for Sacrament meeting? When was the last time you were in the Temple to worship your God, as you understand him?

"Oh, we have to be safe. It's for our own good, and 'safety'".
dc

[Refraction75]

So, how can it be explained that The Church, led by prophets, is nowadays supporting Agenda 21?

Show me some evidence that they are in support of Agenda 21 and population control....

There are numerous talks about the importance of bringing spirit children onto this earth. Mormon Families by in large tend to be larger in number than the rest of the population. The commandment God gave to Adam and Eve and their posterity "To multiply and replenish the earth." has never been rescinded. Is this population control?

There is a talk by Elder Oaks about it. found here: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... n?lang=eng

There are some that believe that the coronavirus is fake....I am not one of them. I know people who have died from it. This is dangerous rhetoric being preached around like it is the gospel.

I do agree with you on the New World Order. The BOM teaches for us to look for and be aware of Gadianton Robbers of our day. Prophet Benson warned us as much.

The stumbling block for some that have lost their faith is this passage of scripture mentioned above in Isaiah....

Where does that leave you in the end? What are you left with faith wise?

If you corrupt the church the living Prophet and the Apostles.

Where do you suppose the truth is? If there is still truth in existance in your view....

Does this leave you Godless? Christless? Prophetless? Religionless?

Will you have to wait to the End of Times to be redeemed by Christ in your scriptural passage view of the Gospel which was written by....a Prophet?

So surely you must believe in Prophets if you are quoting Isaiah....

So where does the revelations from prophets start and end for you?

Did it end with the bible? That was compiled by the Catholic Church.

Did it End with Brigham Young?

Did it End with Joseph Smith?

Did it end with Elder Nelson?

Or did it end with the ability to have personal revelation?