Spencer is the OMS???

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Silver
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by Silver »

abijah wrote: January 29th, 2018, 7:46 pm
Silver wrote: January 29th, 2018, 3:08 pm
Would the heretic in the house please find another hobby? Another website? Another planet to spew your heresy upon?
I have no desire to butt into your feud but this is simply ridiculous. How do you maintain such an ongoing rudeness? Should Alaris have to deal with your hate-filled drivel every time he posts? This attack was entirely unprovoked. Even if he were a heretic, who are you to judge him when you follow him around the forum trying to put him down at every opportunity? How do you justify such contention?
Perhaps your life will be more enjoyable if you put me on ignore.

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abijah
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by abijah »

AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 6:48 pm
I'm sorry, I can't keep you two's theories straight, they both seem similar in that you each reinterpret scriptures which have always been understood to refer to Jesus Christ and rework them to suit your pet theories of a man who comes to save the day.
Whether he's called 'the davidic servant' or the 'Josephite', I don't care--either way, it's someone whom you are looking to for a type of salvation. It's not hysteria, it's observation. To be looking for a man who can perform miracles and unite the people--but it's not Jesus Christ? Sounds like an Anti-christ to me. Read the description of the Antichrist in Revelation. He's credited with performing miracles, healing himself, and everyone worships him....and they aren't looking for christ any longer because they've got someone else to follow--to 'save' them in a temporal manner.

The fact is, Anything that makes us 'look beyond the mark', when the Mark is Jesus Christ, is Antichrist.
God has always raised up men to a leadership position in His efforts to bring about a Zion people. Prior to the Flood He used Enoch, to unite and lead the people, preparing them to obtain Zion. Some generations later He raised Melchizedek for a similar purpose. He called Moses to perform a messianic mission as well, to deliver the Israelites and help them to establish Zion. There are an abundance of examples, I could go on. The clear pattern is that with every significant event in the history of God's people is that it is never accomplished in a leaderless manner. There has been a leading figure, a head. Would you deny that the endtime events are significant? Do you suppose that the fulfillment of those prophecies in the Old Testament will be achieved by the LDS President?

Did the ancient Israelites look beyond the mark when they followed Joshua? Did the latter-day saints look beyond the mark when they trusted in Joseph Smith? Why should you think the davidic heir will be different? Do you think it robbery of Christ that His endtime servant should perform miracles and unite the people? Have there not been many before which have done the same?

Perhaps I'm at fault in this, but I find it hard to follow your logic.

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Durzan
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by Durzan »

Behold, the One who shall come and set [His] house in order is among the members of {His} Church... and he shall come from both within and from without.
Last edited by Durzan on January 30th, 2018, 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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GrandMasterB
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by GrandMasterB »

AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 6:48 pm
LDS Anarchist wrote: January 29th, 2018, 5:06 pm
AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 4:21 pm I recall that as I've read your posts on this subject, the scriptures you used to come to your conclusions are mostly prophecies about Jesus Christ or Joseph Smith. I seriously do not understand why you want to influence others to look to some man instead of looking to Christ with your Josephite Predictions.
Uh, I'm the only one (that I know of) who teaches about a Josephite. Alaris is the one who teaches about a Davidic Servant. Just wanted to make everyone clear on this point.
AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 4:21 pm This is not just directed at Alaris, this is also directed to others on the forum who have brought their theories of the Davidic Servant and the One mighty and strong and are looking for an 'arm of flesh'.... to do what? Lead them? I"m not sure, but what I do know is that they are setting themselves up to not look to our LDS Prophets and Apostles for counsel and guidance in the last days and instead follow after an Anti-christ.
It's a real stretch of the imagination (or perhaps a bout of hysteria) to think that alaris's teaching of a Davidic Servant, or my teaching of Joseph-Nephi, is Anti-Christ. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm sorry, I can't keep you two's theories straight, they both seem similar in that you each reinterpret scriptures which have always been understood to refer to Jesus Christ and rework them to suit your pet theories of a man who comes to save the day.
Whether he's called 'the davidic servant' or the 'Josephite', I don't care--either way, it's someone whom you are looking to for a type of salvation. It's not hysteria, it's observation. To be looking for a man who can perform miracles and unite the people--but it's not Jesus Christ? Sounds like an Anti-christ to me. Read the description of the Antichrist in Revelation. He's credited with performing miracles, healing himself, and everyone worships him....and they aren't looking for christ any longer because they've got someone else to follow--to 'save' them in a temporal manner.

The fact is, Anything that makes us 'look beyond the mark', when the Mark is Jesus Christ, is Antichrist.
What he/she said. Except maybe for Avraham Gileadi. He is da best!

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GrandMasterB
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by GrandMasterB »

Silver wrote: January 29th, 2018, 5:43 pm

Still you persist in insisting that everyone pray over your favorite heresies. Several of us have already informed you in your heretical MMP thread that we did pray and are certain that you're deceived and since you continue to preach falsehood you are now a deceiver as well. The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles makes it very clear that you are wrong. It's a short read. It will do your soul good.
What is MMP?

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kittycat51
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by kittycat51 »

GrandMasterB wrote: January 30th, 2018, 9:26 am
Silver wrote: January 29th, 2018, 5:43 pm

Still you persist in insisting that everyone pray over your favorite heresies. Several of us have already informed you in your heretical MMP thread that we did pray and are certain that you're deceived and since you continue to preach falsehood you are now a deceiver as well. The Living Christ: The Testimony of the Apostles makes it very clear that you are wrong. It's a short read. It will do your soul good.
What is MMP?
Multiple Mortal Probation's.

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mirkwood
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by mirkwood »

GrandMasterB wrote: January 30th, 2018, 9:26 am

What is MMP?
Heresy.

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AI2.0
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by AI2.0 »

alaris wrote: January 29th, 2018, 7:05 pm
AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 6:48 pm
LDS Anarchist wrote: January 29th, 2018, 5:06 pm
AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 4:21 pm I recall that as I've read your posts on this subject, the scriptures you used to come to your conclusions are mostly prophecies about Jesus Christ or Joseph Smith. I seriously do not understand why you want to influence others to look to some man instead of looking to Christ with your Josephite Predictions.
Uh, I'm the only one (that I know of) who teaches about a Josephite. Alaris is the one who teaches about a Davidic Servant. Just wanted to make everyone clear on this point.
AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 4:21 pm This is not just directed at Alaris, this is also directed to others on the forum who have brought their theories of the Davidic Servant and the One mighty and strong and are looking for an 'arm of flesh'.... to do what? Lead them? I"m not sure, but what I do know is that they are setting themselves up to not look to our LDS Prophets and Apostles for counsel and guidance in the last days and instead follow after an Anti-christ.
It's a real stretch of the imagination (or perhaps a bout of hysteria) to think that alaris's teaching of a Davidic Servant, or my teaching of Joseph-Nephi, is Anti-Christ. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm sorry, I can't keep you two's theories straight, they both seem similar in that you each reinterpret scriptures which have always been understood to refer to Jesus Christ and rework them to suit your pet theories of a man who comes to save the day.
Whether he's called 'the davidic servant' or the 'Josephite', I don't care--either way, it's someone whom you are looking to for a type of salvation. It's not hysteria, it's observation. To be looking for a man who can perform miracles and unite the people--but it's not Jesus Christ? Sounds like an Anti-christ to me. Read the description of the Antichrist in Revelation. He's credited with performing miracles, healing himself, and everyone worships him....and they aren't looking for christ any longer because they've got someone else to follow--to 'save' them in a temporal manner.

The fact is, Anything that makes us 'look beyond the mark', when the Mark is Jesus Christ, is Antichrist.
By that logic then Joseph Smith was antichrist. The Lord sends from time to time servants to do His will. It's about as opposite as antichrist as can be. If the Davidic Servant comes preaching of some means of salvation other than Christ then he will be antichrist. He of course will do no such thing.

Your logic is not sound. Joseph Smith was called as a prophet to restore the true church to the earth, because there was no true prophet or church on at the time. If you believe the Lord's church is here on earth, then there is no need to look for a Davidic Servant or Josephite to come, who is not the Prophet of the LDS church or a man who serves with authority from the Prophet. Both your's and Anarchy's theories look for an additional person to come, and as far as I've seen, you both are open to the suggestion that this man may not be the LDS prophet, a member of the Quorum of 12 or a man called and set apart by them. So, you are both ripe for following a false prophet, just as the many others who followed James Strang, William Godbe, Roger Billings, etc. It's happened so many times in our church history, it's so sad that people do not learn from the mistakes of the past, but they always seem to think that their situation is different.

I also consider it Anti-christ to take scriptures which are interpreted to refer to the Lord Jesus Christ and make them about a future leader who will come, because it cuts Christ out of those prophecies and makes people look to a man to offer some kind of salvation or relief. I'm certain you both disagree with me, but that doesn't change my opinion in how I see this.

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Robin Hood
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by Robin Hood »

I believe the one mighty and strong was Brigham Young.

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LdsMarco
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by LdsMarco »

On Spencer. I personally learned a lot from his story. Those who disagree with him is fine with me. Everyone has their own belief system. But when people begin to talk mess about him - I think those people need to be more humble and respect those who receive visions, dreams etc. Especially, when it is obvious that the Church leaders are not saying anything negative about him. He is a bishop. That should tell you something. Who cares what FAIR (and others) has to say.

Is he OMS? Again, I stay away from this topic due to the fact that no one is going to know until it is obvious to everyone. The discussion on OMS is pointless because it has gone around circles ever since the church began.

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AI2.0
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by AI2.0 »

abijah wrote: January 29th, 2018, 8:07 pm
AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 6:48 pm
I'm sorry, I can't keep you two's theories straight, they both seem similar in that you each reinterpret scriptures which have always been understood to refer to Jesus Christ and rework them to suit your pet theories of a man who comes to save the day.
Whether he's called 'the davidic servant' or the 'Josephite', I don't care--either way, it's someone whom you are looking to for a type of salvation. It's not hysteria, it's observation. To be looking for a man who can perform miracles and unite the people--but it's not Jesus Christ? Sounds like an Anti-christ to me. Read the description of the Antichrist in Revelation. He's credited with performing miracles, healing himself, and everyone worships him....and they aren't looking for christ any longer because they've got someone else to follow--to 'save' them in a temporal manner.

The fact is, Anything that makes us 'look beyond the mark', when the Mark is Jesus Christ, is Antichrist.
God has always raised up men to a leadership position in His efforts to bring about a Zion people. Prior to the Flood He used Enoch, to unite and lead the people, preparing them to obtain Zion. Some generations later He raised Melchizedek for a similar purpose. He called Moses to perform a messianic mission as well, to deliver the Israelites and help them to establish Zion. There are an abundance of examples, I could go on. The clear pattern is that with every significant event in the history of God's people is that it is never accomplished in a leaderless manner. There has been a leading figure, a head. Would you deny that the endtime events are significant? Do you suppose that the fulfillment of those prophecies in the Old Testament will be achieved by the LDS President?

Did the ancient Israelites look beyond the mark when they followed Joshua? Did the latter-day saints look beyond the mark when they trusted in Joseph Smith? Why should you think the davidic heir will be different? Do you think it robbery of Christ that His endtime servant should perform miracles and unite the people? Have there not been many before which have done the same?

Perhaps I'm at fault in this, but I find it hard to follow your logic.
The Lord has always called prophets, I agree. With some exceptions. There were no prophets during the times of the apostasy and until Joseph Smith was called as a Prophet. Since that time, we have prophets. There are in Salt Lake City and they lead and guide this church. There is one man at a time who receives revelation for the entire church. We are to look to them, as they are the Lord's authorized, anointed Prophets. When the Lord has his authorized, anointed servants, HIS prophets, he doesn't call other prophets from outside to confuse us. We are to look for 'true' messengers because there are plenty of false ones, with false messages.

Joseph Smith was called as a Prophet, he served as one, he pointed his people to Christ, not to himself, so you can't accuse Joseph of making the saints look to him instead of Christ. The Messiah Ben David is a Jewish prophet--he's not coming from the Leadership of the LDS church and he won't be someone we as members should be following. I expect he will be a good man, but he's not going to be a prophet to us. Christ IS the one we should be looking to, not another 'arm of flesh', a false prophet who could potentially be the Antichrist, because we've been warned. How stupid do we have to be to forget that we were warned by the Lord himself that in the Last days, false prophets, false christs and false teachers would abound and we'd need to take care that we are not deceived.

The Logic is simple. If you actually believe that the LDS church is the Lord's one and only true church on the earth, then you must acknowledge that any servants he calls will come from within the church heirarchy--will be known to the church, will have the authority and stewardship that comes from being a called, set apart, anointed servant of the Lord. Anyone from outside the church Priesthood governing body is not going to be someone we should look for, follow or believe in.

If you are looking to anyone other than the Prophet and apostles of the LDS church to be your 'end time' servants...you are ripe for being deceived and taken into strange paths.

Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by Silver »

AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am
abijah wrote: January 29th, 2018, 8:07 pm
AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 6:48 pm
I'm sorry, I can't keep you two's theories straight, they both seem similar in that you each reinterpret scriptures which have always been understood to refer to Jesus Christ and rework them to suit your pet theories of a man who comes to save the day.
Whether he's called 'the davidic servant' or the 'Josephite', I don't care--either way, it's someone whom you are looking to for a type of salvation. It's not hysteria, it's observation. To be looking for a man who can perform miracles and unite the people--but it's not Jesus Christ? Sounds like an Anti-christ to me. Read the description of the Antichrist in Revelation. He's credited with performing miracles, healing himself, and everyone worships him....and they aren't looking for christ any longer because they've got someone else to follow--to 'save' them in a temporal manner.

The fact is, Anything that makes us 'look beyond the mark', when the Mark is Jesus Christ, is Antichrist.
God has always raised up men to a leadership position in His efforts to bring about a Zion people. Prior to the Flood He used Enoch, to unite and lead the people, preparing them to obtain Zion. Some generations later He raised Melchizedek for a similar purpose. He called Moses to perform a messianic mission as well, to deliver the Israelites and help them to establish Zion. There are an abundance of examples, I could go on. The clear pattern is that with every significant event in the history of God's people is that it is never accomplished in a leaderless manner. There has been a leading figure, a head. Would you deny that the endtime events are significant? Do you suppose that the fulfillment of those prophecies in the Old Testament will be achieved by the LDS President?

Did the ancient Israelites look beyond the mark when they followed Joshua? Did the latter-day saints look beyond the mark when they trusted in Joseph Smith? Why should you think the davidic heir will be different? Do you think it robbery of Christ that His endtime servant should perform miracles and unite the people? Have there not been many before which have done the same?

Perhaps I'm at fault in this, but I find it hard to follow your logic.
The Lord has always called prophets, I agree. With some exceptions. There were no prophets during the times of the apostasy and until Joseph Smith was called as a Prophet. Since that time, we have prophets. There are in Salt Lake City and they lead and guide this church. There is one man at a time who receives revelation for the entire church. We are to look to them, as they are the Lord's authorized, anointed Prophets. When the Lord has his authorized, anointed servants, HIS prophets, he doesn't call other prophets from outside to confuse us. We are to look for 'true' messengers because there are plenty of false ones, with false messages.

Joseph Smith was called as a Prophet, he served as one, he pointed his people to Christ, not to himself, so you can't accuse Joseph of making the saints look to him instead of Christ. The Messiah Ben David is a Jewish prophet--he's not coming from the Leadership of the LDS church and he won't be someone we as members should be following. I expect he will be a good man, but he's not going to be a prophet to us. Christ IS the one we should be looking to, not another 'arm of flesh', a false prophet who could potentially be the Antichrist, because we've been warned. How stupid do we have to be to forget that we were warned by the Lord himself that in the Last days, false prophets, false christs and false teachers would abound and we'd need to take care that we are not deceived.

The Logic is simple. If you actually believe that the LDS church is the Lord's one and only true church on the earth, then you must acknowledge that any servants he calls will come from within the church heirarchy--will be known to the church, will have the authority and stewardship that comes from being a called, set apart, anointed servant of the Lord. Anyone from outside the church Priesthood governing body is not going to be someone we should look for, follow or believe in.

If you are looking to anyone other than the Prophet and apostles of the LDS church to be your 'end time' servants...you are ripe for being deceived and taken into strange paths.
You know what this is all about, don't you? I think you do, but you're just too nice to say it. I am not nice so I'll gladly proclaim what this is all about.

The heretics like Snuffer, in general, and Anarchist and alarisherem, in particular, with hands all a-twitter, and with hearts pounding in their chests, want us to revere them for sharing some great secret that God has never seen fit to reveal to his prophets and apostles. They know stuff we don't know...that nobody knows. So fall on your knees and show them the respect and adoration they deserve. They mix in a few half-truths and quote scriptures so it deceives the weak-minded. What they want is us to follow them. It's really a pity that they can't be satisfied with the Lord's organization and the Lord's plan.

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Alaris
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by Alaris »

AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:15 am
alaris wrote: January 29th, 2018, 7:05 pm
AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 6:48 pm
LDS Anarchist wrote: January 29th, 2018, 5:06 pm

Uh, I'm the only one (that I know of) who teaches about a Josephite. Alaris is the one who teaches about a Davidic Servant. Just wanted to make everyone clear on this point.



It's a real stretch of the imagination (or perhaps a bout of hysteria) to think that alaris's teaching of a Davidic Servant, or my teaching of Joseph-Nephi, is Anti-Christ. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I'm sorry, I can't keep you two's theories straight, they both seem similar in that you each reinterpret scriptures which have always been understood to refer to Jesus Christ and rework them to suit your pet theories of a man who comes to save the day.
Whether he's called 'the davidic servant' or the 'Josephite', I don't care--either way, it's someone whom you are looking to for a type of salvation. It's not hysteria, it's observation. To be looking for a man who can perform miracles and unite the people--but it's not Jesus Christ? Sounds like an Anti-christ to me. Read the description of the Antichrist in Revelation. He's credited with performing miracles, healing himself, and everyone worships him....and they aren't looking for christ any longer because they've got someone else to follow--to 'save' them in a temporal manner.

The fact is, Anything that makes us 'look beyond the mark', when the Mark is Jesus Christ, is Antichrist.
By that logic then Joseph Smith was antichrist. The Lord sends from time to time servants to do His will. It's about as opposite as antichrist as can be. If the Davidic Servant comes preaching of some means of salvation other than Christ then he will be antichrist. He of course will do no such thing.

Your logic is not sound. Joseph Smith was called as a prophet to restore the true church to the earth, because there was no true prophet or church on at the time. If you believe the Lord's church is here on earth, then there is no need to look for a Davidic Servant or Josephite to come, who is not the Prophet of the LDS church or a man who serves with authority from the Prophet. Both your's and Anarchy's theories look for an additional person to come, and as far as I've seen, you both are open to the suggestion that this man may not be the LDS prophet, a member of the Quorum of 12 or a man called and set apart by them. So, you are both ripe for following a false prophet, just as the many others who followed James Strang, William Godbe, Roger Billings, etc. It's happened so many times in our church history, it's so sad that people do not learn from the mistakes of the past, but they always seem to think that their situation is different.

I also consider it Anti-christ to take scriptures which are interpreted to refer to the Lord Jesus Christ and make them about a future leader who will come, because it cuts Christ out of those prophecies and makes people look to a man to offer some kind of salvation or relief. I'm certain you both disagree with me, but that doesn't change my opinion in how I see this.
If you do not believe there are other prophets you do not believe the scriptures. If you do not believe in a servant who is hidden you do not believe the scriptures. If you do not believe there is another David coming you do not believe the scriptures or Joseph Smith. I understand that many think these prophecies are about Christ because He is of the line of David, but that is the shoehorn view, not the other way around. Cognitive dissonance is the result when you realize there's a truth that conflicts with your earlier understanding and that is uncomfortable indeed!

If you think you can blindly follow the current prophets and apostles without learning how to receive directly from the Lord you will be the one - are the one - in danger. Did Joseph Smith want the saints following him blindly or did he teach the saints they must learn for themselves? Should you follow Russell M. Nelson without seeking your own witness? I have and I have received. He is the Lord's prophet. There is another servant to come who has a ton of prophecies regarding him in all four standard works. Many of these scriptures were extremely difficult for me to accept were not about Jesus Christ. Isaiah 9:6 is the perfect example. I have sung this song along with Motab with tears in my eyes feeling a witness of the Savior in my heart. Was I wrong to feel that way or was my witness of Christ any less powerful? No.

There are many scriptures millions assume are about Christ that are not. They are about the hidden servant. You are of the wrong spirit if you think taking these questions to the Lord are antichrist. It is an evil spirit who scares people from prayer. In fact, spending your time heaping persecutions upon people who you believe are misguided or wrong (and I agree Julie Rowe and Denver Snuffer are false but can't imagine justifying dedicating so much time to persecution [look up the definition]) has led you down this path where a dark spirit now has you scaring people away from praying... From praying!!!

Consider for a moment there is another Moses or Joseph Smith on the way and those prophecies are hidden from most. Who are they not hidden from? That's right... The adversary. So the adversary does what he does and confuses and distracts... Just look up oms on Wikipedia. The adversary is not fabricating an end times servant. He's trying to confuse on one end and he's using the "we have enough folks" and the mockers on the other end.

Prayer is the answer. Prayer after the manner of Moroni 7 where your plead with all the energy of your heart for the love of Christ... For that love will shine a bright light on how far down the dark path the high fiving "we have enough" folks have traversed. All truth can be discovered by this manner. Notice how shadow couldn't even invite peeps to prayer. "We have enough" is in stark contrast to pray and discover for yourself.

That is what is missing from your posts Ai2.0. You accuse me of preaching false doctrine but between me and you, you are the only one who presents your view without an invitation to prayer as though the reader and passersby should take your word for it. Do you want people looking to you for answers or God? I've made my stance clear.

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Alaris
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by Alaris »

AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am
abijah wrote: January 29th, 2018, 8:07 pm
AI2.0 wrote: January 29th, 2018, 6:48 pm
I'm sorry, I can't keep you two's theories straight, they both seem similar in that you each reinterpret scriptures which have always been understood to refer to Jesus Christ and rework them to suit your pet theories of a man who comes to save the day.
Whether he's called 'the davidic servant' or the 'Josephite', I don't care--either way, it's someone whom you are looking to for a type of salvation. It's not hysteria, it's observation. To be looking for a man who can perform miracles and unite the people--but it's not Jesus Christ? Sounds like an Anti-christ to me. Read the description of the Antichrist in Revelation. He's credited with performing miracles, healing himself, and everyone worships him....and they aren't looking for christ any longer because they've got someone else to follow--to 'save' them in a temporal manner.

The fact is, Anything that makes us 'look beyond the mark', when the Mark is Jesus Christ, is Antichrist.
God has always raised up men to a leadership position in His efforts to bring about a Zion people. Prior to the Flood He used Enoch, to unite and lead the people, preparing them to obtain Zion. Some generations later He raised Melchizedek for a similar purpose. He called Moses to perform a messianic mission as well, to deliver the Israelites and help them to establish Zion. There are an abundance of examples, I could go on. The clear pattern is that with every significant event in the history of God's people is that it is never accomplished in a leaderless manner. There has been a leading figure, a head. Would you deny that the endtime events are significant? Do you suppose that the fulfillment of those prophecies in the Old Testament will be achieved by the LDS President?

Did the ancient Israelites look beyond the mark when they followed Joshua? Did the latter-day saints look beyond the mark when they trusted in Joseph Smith? Why should you think the davidic heir will be different? Do you think it robbery of Christ that His endtime servant should perform miracles and unite the people? Have there not been many before which have done the same?

Perhaps I'm at fault in this, but I find it hard to follow your logic.
The Lord has always called prophets, I agree. With some exceptions. There were no prophets during the times of the apostasy and until Joseph Smith was called as a Prophet. Since that time, we have prophets. There are in Salt Lake City and they lead and guide this church. There is one man at a time who receives revelation for the entire church. We are to look to them, as they are the Lord's authorized, anointed Prophets. When the Lord has his authorized, anointed servants, HIS prophets, he doesn't call other prophets from outside to confuse us. We are to look for 'true' messengers because there are plenty of false ones, with false messages.
He doesn't call outside prophets?
D&C 133:26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 amJoseph Smith was called as a Prophet, he served as one, he pointed his people to Christ, not to himself, so you can't accuse Joseph of making the saints look to him instead of Christ. The Messiah Ben David is a Jewish prophet--he's not coming from the Leadership of the LDS church and he won't be someone we as members should be following.
You really should spend more time studying about the Messiah Ben David - Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. He will be king over all of Israel - that is the throne and Kingdom of David. David was not King of The Jews - He was King of Israel. Ephraim is Israel and is a part of the throne and Kingdom of David:

"the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am I expect he will be a good man, but he's not going to be a prophet to us.
Says who and where? Is this not at least worth praying about rather than throwing the term "Antichrist" around? You at least acknowledge there is a Messiah Ben David.
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am Christ IS the one we should be looking to, not another 'arm of flesh', a false prophet who could potentially be the Antichrist, because we've been warned. How stupid do we have to be to forget that we were warned by the Lord himself that in the Last days, false prophets, false christs and false teachers would abound and we'd need to take care that we are not deceived.
The warning would be "beware of all who claim to be prophets" if there weren't true ones out there as well. So how do we discern who is a true prophet? Do we rely on others to tell us or do we seek God's mind on the matter? Certainly those who heap persecutions and mocking are likely not in tune. Speaking of simple logic ... ;)
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am The Logic is simple. If you actually believe that the LDS church is the Lord's one and only true church on the earth, then you must acknowledge that any servants he calls will come from within the church heirarchy--will be known to the church, will have the authority and stewardship that comes from being a called, set apart, anointed servant of the Lord. Anyone from outside the church Priesthood governing body is not going to be someone we should look for, follow or believe in.
That is good logic. You are, however, leaning on your own understanding of how God works. There are other prophets. If John or one of the three nephites came up to you and gave you an instruction or a command, would you say, "nope! Simple logic says only such commands can come from my church hierarchy." What if the Spirit tells you to murder a passed-out drunkard? Look, I hope when the Davidic Servant comes, our church leaders embrace him and it's made simple for all who haven't learned to commune directly with God through His spirit. However, I do not believe it will be so simple as a separation of the wheat and tares is inevitable. The "We have enough" folks in Jesus day were invited, but Jesus was not inviting them from places they expected. What if something happened to the brethren and there were a schism - let's say hypothetically the prophet passes and they split down the middle 7 / 7 - each new quorum calls a prophet? Worse yet, let's say the wings provided to the woman in Revelation 12 means the church is outright taken off the Earth. New prophets arise. Most are false. How do you discern the true ones? Beware of false prophets.
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am If you are looking to anyone other than the Prophet and apostles of the LDS church to be your 'end time' servants...you are ripe for being deceived and taken into strange paths.
If you are looking for any of God's servants except by going directly to him, you are the one ripening unto destruction. Did you look for a witness of Russel M. Nelson or did you just assume? It is not a coincidence that 2 Nephi 28's lesson on receiving and the warning of "we have enough" precedes 2 Nephi 29:
2 Nephi 29:1 But behold, there shall be many—at that day when I shall proceed to do a marvelous work among them, that I may remember my covenants which I have made unto the children of men, that I may set my hand again the second time to recover my people, which are of the house of Israel;

2 And also, that I may remember the promises which I have made unto thee, Nephi, and also unto thy father, that I would remember your seed; and that the words of your seed should proceed forth out of my mouth unto your seed; and my words shall hiss forth unto the ends of the earth, for a standard unto my people, which are of the house of Israel;

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.

4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?

5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people.

6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?

8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.

13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.

14 And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the lands of their possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in one. And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever.

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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

Post by Silver »

alaris wrote: January 30th, 2018, 11:19 am
He doesn't call outside prophets?
D&C 133:26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.
You're completely and utterly confused. Just because members of the Church do not currently know the prophets who will come with those in the north countries, it does not mean they are unknown to God. In other words, all God's prophets are, by very definition, on the inside.

There were simultaneously prophets in both the new and old world when Lehi and party arrived in the Western Hemisphere even though those in the old world may have been unaware of Lehi and his posterity.

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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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LdsMarco wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:24 am On Spencer. I personally learned a lot from his story. Those who disagree with him is fine with me. Everyone has their own belief system. But when people begin to talk mess about him - I think those people need to be more humble and respect those who receive visions, dreams etc. Especially, when it is obvious that the Church leaders are not saying anything negative about him. He is a bishop. That should tell you something. Who cares what FAIR (and others) has to say.

Is he OMS? Again, I stay away from this topic due to the fact that no one is going to know until it is obvious to everyone. The discussion on OMS is pointless because it has gone around circles ever since the church began.
Sure, stick to the thread topic! ;)

Good points all around, except the OMS may not be obvious... At least at first.

The scriptures teach us to read by the Spirit. This is certainly a book anyone can pray about and come to their own conclusions. There was a good point about Spencers importance being reflected by his office; however imho the OMS is the Davidic Servant or Messiah Ben David. As King of Israel he will have the right to assign inherentances for all of Israel ala D&C 85:7. Nothing in Visions of Glory seems to indicate such a position for Spencer as I recall.

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GrandMasterB
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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alaris wrote: January 30th, 2018, 11:32 am
LdsMarco wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:24 am On Spencer. I personally learned a lot from his story. Those who disagree with him is fine with me. Everyone has their own belief system. But when people begin to talk mess about him - I think those people need to be more humble and respect those who receive visions, dreams etc. Especially, when it is obvious that the Church leaders are not saying anything negative about him. He is a bishop. That should tell you something. Who cares what FAIR (and others) has to say.

Is he OMS? Again, I stay away from this topic due to the fact that no one is going to know until it is obvious to everyone. The discussion on OMS is pointless because it has gone around circles ever since the church began.
Sure, stick to the thread topic! ;)

Good points all around, except the OMS may not be obvious... At least at first.

The scriptures teach us to read by the Spirit. This is certainly a book anyone can pray about and come to their own conclusions. There was a good point about Spencers importance being reflected by his office; however imho the OMS is the Davidic Servant or Messiah Ben David. As King of Israel he will have the right to assign inherentances for all of Israel ala D&C 85:7. Nothing in Visions of Glory seems to indicate such a position for Spencer as I recall.
So where in the scriptures does it talk about multiple mortal probation?

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Alaris
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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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GrandMasterB wrote: January 30th, 2018, 12:56 pm
alaris wrote: January 30th, 2018, 11:32 am
LdsMarco wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:24 am On Spencer. I personally learned a lot from his story. Those who disagree with him is fine with me. Everyone has their own belief system. But when people begin to talk mess about him - I think those people need to be more humble and respect those who receive visions, dreams etc. Especially, when it is obvious that the Church leaders are not saying anything negative about him. He is a bishop. That should tell you something. Who cares what FAIR (and others) has to say.

Is he OMS? Again, I stay away from this topic due to the fact that no one is going to know until it is obvious to everyone. The discussion on OMS is pointless because it has gone around circles ever since the church began.
Sure, stick to the thread topic! ;)

Good points all around, except the OMS may not be obvious... At least at first.

The scriptures teach us to read by the Spirit. This is certainly a book anyone can pray about and come to their own conclusions. There was a good point about Spencers importance being reflected by his office; however imho the OMS is the Davidic Servant or Messiah Ben David. As King of Israel he will have the right to assign inherentances for all of Israel ala D&C 85:7. Nothing in Visions of Glory seems to indicate such a position for Spencer as I recall.
So where in the scriptures does it talk about multiple mortal probation?
There are many, though let's not derail this thread any further. If you're genuinely interested, here's a thread:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=47356

Despite what some would have you believe, there are many LDS who believe in MMP. I'll quote you in that thread.

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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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Alma 41 becomes completely meaningless if you have MMP. For to which of the many bodies shall a person be restored in the resurrection, since Alma exclaims to his son, that "the soul of man should be restored to its body, and that every part of the body should be restored to itself"? And to whom would a person be sealed in the eternities if during each of their MMPs they are sealed to someone? There is a time to prepare for the next life. It is this life. And there is a time to complete the process of perfection. It is the millennium. God is not the author of confusion. MMP is simply rubbish, and the only scriptures that supposedly support it do so by wresting them. Truly, those looking for this new doctrine are exactly what Elder Cook described as "looking beyond the mark."

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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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Alaris, you claim that you are learning the higher 'mysteries' and that these things are not known to the members of the church. You imply that church leaders know them, but don't share them.

But, this is where you've lost me. As we gain knowledge and understanding of spiritual things, it comes to us in this manner; 'line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little,' So, we expect that this higher knowledge will build upon the foundational basics of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet, the things you claim to have had revealed to you, don't build on the basics, they contradict the basics.

Such as your belief in Multiple mortal probations, which was brought up here and now, your belief that a Davidic Servant to lead us might come from outside the Church leadership. Both of these beliefs are at odds with the basics of gospel principles. That's why I question the source of your 'revelations', because they are not building upon the very foundational teachings of the gospel.

If you are looking for a prophet to come forward and you don't care whether he's associated with the church? I don't understand this because it is not how we have been taught and what we are taught is what the Lord has set up in these last days. He doesn't want us to be deceived by false prophets, false teachers etc. As members we've been counseled to heed our Prophets at the head of this church, not to look for others to spring up.

You keep insisting that we should pray about this, but some things don't need to be prayed over to know they are not right. We are members of the CofJCofLDS and we have a prophet at the head of this church. We have 12 apostles who lead us. They in turn, call through priesthood authority, others to lead us. We do not have a place in our church for outside prophets to spring up and try to gain our allegiance. We have true messengers, they are at the head of our church. If anyone is going to lead us as a people, it will be the Prophet or someone he calls and sets apart. That is what we are taught, that is what we believe.

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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 4:40 pm Alaris, you claim that you are learning the higher 'mysteries' and that these things are not known to the members of the church. You imply that church leaders know them, but don't share them.

But, this is where you've lost me. As we gain knowledge and understanding of spiritual things, it comes to us in this manner; 'line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little,' So, we expect that this higher knowledge will build upon the foundational basics of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet, the things you claim to have had revealed to you, don't build on the basics, they contradict the basics.

Such as your belief in Multiple mortal probations, which was brought up here and now, your belief that a Davidic Servant to lead us might come from outside the Church leadership. Both of these beliefs are at odds with the basics of gospel principles. That's why I question the source of your 'revelations', because they are not building upon the very foundational teachings of the gospel.

If you are looking for a prophet to come forward and you don't care whether he's associated with the church? I don't understand this because it is not how we have been taught and what we are taught is what the Lord has set up in these last days. He doesn't want us to be deceived by false prophets, false teachers etc. As members we've been counseled to heed our Prophets at the head of this church, not to look for others to spring up.

You keep insisting that we should pray about this, but some things don't need to be prayed over to know they are not right. We are members of the CofJCofLDS and we have a prophet at the head of this church. We have 12 apostles who lead us. They in turn, call through priesthood authority, others to lead us. We do not have a place in our church for outside prophets to spring up and try to gain our allegiance. We have true messengers, they are at the head of our church. If anyone is going to lead us as a people, it will be the Prophet or someone he calls and sets apart. That is what we are taught, that is what we believe.
I'm not the only one who believes in MMP or a Davidic Servant - not by a long shot. These are mysteries absolutely. They are not shared at general conference, and it's not difficult to comprehend why. The apostles and prophets certainly don't forbid us from seeking the mysteries or even discussing them - especially if we do not advertise them as being "official" church doctrine. I have found these truths to be ... true, by study and prayer. So of course I take issue with you or anyone who challenges what I've been allowed to share by the Spirit with a spirit of "no need to pray." Of course you need to pray to discover the truth of these mysteries. He that diligently seeketh shall find. Would you seek without prayer?

And since these things are true, there are all sorts of people waking up to them - that is why the adversary is working overtime to raise false prophets preaching MMP and Davidic Servant - he knows these truths are in tandem and will do everything he can to distract. You can know by the same spirit that teaches that Russel M. Nelson is the prophet that MMP is true as well as the mysteries of the Davidic Servant. I have never asked anyone to take my word for it. Pray. Ask. Seek. Knock.

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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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"You keep insisting that we should pray about this, but some things don't need to be prayed over to know they are not right."

Great comment! Thank you!

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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am
The Lord has always called prophets, I agree. With some exceptions. There were no prophets during the times of the apostasy and until Joseph Smith was called as a Prophet. Since that time, we have prophets. There are in Salt Lake City and they lead and guide this church. There is one man at a time who receives revelation for the entire church. We are to look to them, as they are the Lord's authorized, anointed Prophets. When the Lord has his authorized, anointed servants, HIS prophets, he doesn't call other prophets from outside to confuse us. We are to look for 'true' messengers because there are plenty of false ones, with false messages.
Agreed. God is a God of order, and that's why I maintain the Messiah ben David will not seek to exercise authority within the Church. That belongs to the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve.
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am
Joseph Smith was called as a Prophet, he served as one, he pointed his people to Christ, not to himself, so you can't accuse Joseph of making the saints look to him instead of Christ.
I never did.
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am
The Messiah Ben David is a Jewish prophet--he's not coming from the Leadership of the LDS church and he won't be someone we as members should be following. I expect he will be a good man, but he's not going to be a prophet to us.
Agreed. If you read my post on the earlier page you'll see I supported this same point. It is not the One Mighty and Strong's mandate to set in order the LDS Church, he will not even be a Church leader who exercises Church Priesthood keys.
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am
Christ IS the one we should be looking to, not another 'arm of flesh', a false prophet who could potentially be the Antichrist, because we've been warned. How stupid do we have to be to forget that we were warned by the Lord himself that in the Last days, false prophets, false christs and false teachers would abound and we'd need to take care that we are not deceived.
There have been, and certainly yet will be many corrupt teachers and false messiahs. The scriptures and words of latter-day prophets are replete with such warnings, and one must stay as close as possible to the Spirit of the Lord that he may distinguish truth from error. I reckon that will become more and more difficult as time grows more ripe, that even the very elect might be deceived.
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am
The Logic is simple. If you actually believe that the LDS church is the Lord's one and only true church on the earth, then you must acknowledge that any servants he calls will come from within the church heirarchy--will be known to the church, will have the authority and stewardship that comes from being a called, set apart, anointed servant of the Lord. Anyone from outside the church Priesthood governing body is not going to be someone we should look for, follow or believe in.
To say God does not appoint servants outside of the Church is false. Even heathens and idolaters may serve His purposes, a scriptural example being Cyrus, whom God referred to as His "anointed", and who was himself a type of the davidic heir to come. Unlike Cyrus however, this David of the endtime will not be ignorant of that God who called him, but will worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Again, I agree with the point you made that though there is an actual Messiah ben David, he will not be a Church leader, and therefore will not have any ecclesiastical authority in the Church, nor will he seek to overstep his bounds in any attempt to exercise it. You're repeated statement of "someone we shouldn't follow or believe in" however is fairly negative and cynical. Is it inappropriate for me, a Church member, to support a political leader, or other public figure? So long as I can still say "yes" to the relevant temple recommend question, I can support or believe anyone I choose. But I do respect and agree with your point that he will not be Church-endorsed.
AI2.0 wrote: January 30th, 2018, 10:27 am
If you are looking to anyone other than the Prophet and apostles of the LDS church to be your 'end time' servants...you are ripe for being deceived and taken into strange paths.
I hold the words of LDS apostles sacred and pay them great heed. The Gospel of Jesus Christ in it's simplicity and fundamental saving truths are the foundation stone of my testimony. Nonetheless, I'm not ignorant of the last days events to come, the advent of a "davidic servant" being a rather significant one. The statement that I am ripe for being deceived because I am watchful for the fulfillment of prophecies in the scriptures made me laugh.

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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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Anyone that thinks this servant is anyone other than Jesus Christ will be ripe for being deceived.

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Re: Spencer is the OMS???

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Prayer confirms truth either way.
Last edited by Alaris on January 31st, 2018, 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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