Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

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AI2.0
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Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

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In the latest podcast, Eric Smith 'educates' the audience on the temple. The problem is, given the very big mistake he made, I don't know what we can trust in what he shares.

In podcast 58, 'Temple Worship',

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/juli ... 4_30-08_00

This is about 15 minutes into the podcast. Eric and Julie both opine about 'east' and 'west' and they both get it backwards, suggesting that 'west' is moving closer to God and leaving the 'east' which is away from God. Eric says that we move from the 'east where things are unclean' to the 'west where things are clean'. This is just the opposite to how the Bible and the ancients viewed and used 'east' and 'west' symbolically.

I went to my book, 'The Lost Language of Symbolism--An essential guide for recognizing and interpreting symbols of the Gospel' and there were several pages of evidence to show that East is the positive symbolic direction and West is the negative symbolic direction. Leave it to Julie and Eric to mess this simple thing up as well. Why? Because they aren't inspired, it's as simple as that.

In a nutshell;

West: 'the most ominous of the four directions employed in bibilical text', traditionally carries negative connotations. 'undesirable, sorrow, chaos, evil, darkness, the kingdom of the devil, the dying of the sun, and death itself'. pg. 166

East; "Anciently it was the direction that represented God.' If something came from the east it was represenative of the idea that it was of God, sent by God, or godly in nature.' pg. 150-151 The lost language of Symbolism, Alonzo L. Gaskill.

In your own studies in the scriptures, you can see this clearly. The wisemen come from the east, the Savior, returns from the East, the star was in the east, the doors of the temple face east, etc. there's so much to show this, which is why when Eric started down this train of thought I immediately knew it sounded 'off'.

The danger here is that he's sharing a lot of information and frankly, I am not certain it can be trusted to be accurate. Interesting, Julie Rowe chimed in and supported him with this reversal of the symbols of East and West.

Silver
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by Silver »

Great stuff, AI2.0.

Were they possibly confused about the east wind?

There are some interesting pictures at the link. (I need to go to Israel some day.)

https://blog.israelbiblicalstudies.com/ ... dies/wind/

What Is So Bad About The East Wind?
By Jonathan LipnickNovember 24, 2016No comments
PikiWiki Israel 18388 Cities in Israel.jpg

If you read the news from Israel regularly, you know that the last few days here (beginning Nov. 22, 2016) have been marked by widespread wildfires. Although it is still unclear what started these fires (a wave of terrorist arson is suspected), there is no doubt what has allowed them to spread so quickly: strong dry winds from the east. Above and below are images of wildfires in Israel in recent years, most notably the Mount Carmel wildfire (December 2010). It is common for such fires to take place in the autumn months, when the countryside is parched from the long dry summer.

PikiWiki Israel 18387 Cities in Israel.jpg

In the Land of Israel, winds normally blow from the Mediterranean Sea inland, in an eastward direction. This has the positive effect of bringing cool moist air (and rain during the winter months) to the entire country. However, the opposite can also happen. When the winds blow from the Arabian desert region westwards, the result is very unpleasant. Hot dry winds distribute a caustic blanket of dust across the entire country. The minute grains of desert dust kill crops and get into every crevice making breathing very difficult. The image below is a satellite photograph showing a massive cloud of dust from the Arabia desert (bottom) headed for Israel (top) on May 13, 2005.

Redsea sandstorm May13-2005.jpg

The common Hebrew word for wind is ruah (רוּחַ), which can also have the figurative meaning of “spirit”. But there is a special word for the eastern wind: kadim (קָדִים), which comes from the root KDM (קדם) meaning “east” or “in front of”. This is because in the mindset of the people of the Bible, one stands eastwards looking towards the rising sun. Therefore, in some places in the Bible the word for north is “left” and the word for south is “right”. The same is true in modern English, where we use the word “orient” to refer to getting ourselves geographically situated. The word “orient” comes from the Latin for “rising” and refers to the east, where the sun rises. By the way, this type of deadly east wind is well-known around the Mediterranean Basin. In Italy, for example, the dry desert east wind is called sirocco, which comes from the Arabic word for east, sharqui.

PikiWiki Israel 10864 Cities in Israel.jpg

The prophets of the Hebrew Bible knew this phenomenon well, and alluded to it as part of their visions of catastrophe. In this blog post I would like to take a look at a few biblical verses that mention such strong east winds.

File:PikiWiki Israel 14409 Storm in Eilat.JPG

(1) The prophet Hosea predicts that due to the idolatry and sinfulness of the people of Israel, God will punish them. This punishment will be unexpected and quick, similar to the way in which the east wind suddenly covers the entire Land of Israel with dust, drying up natural sources of water.

Although he may flourish among rushes, the east wind shall come, a blast from the Lord, rising from the wilderness; and his fountain shall dry up, his spring shall be parched. It shall strip his treasury of every precious thing. (Hosea 13:15Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Notice how the prophet very clearly notes that this type of destructive wind comes from the “wilderness”, that is the Arabian desert to the east of the Land of Israel.

Flickr - The U.S. Army - Waiting out the dust storm.jpg

(2) In the Book of Genesis, Joseph is imprisoned in Egypt and becomes famous for interpreting dreams. Pharaoh asks Joseph to analyze the following dream:

“I fell asleep a second time and I saw in my dream seven ears of grain, full and good, growing on one stalk, and seven ears, withered, thin, and blighted by the east wind, sprouting after them; and the thin ears swallowed up the seven good ears. But when I told it to the magicians, there was no one who could explain it to me.” (Genesis 41:22-24Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

File:PikiWiki Israel 17940 wind.jpg

Joseph correctly understands that this dream signifies seven years of famine. Although this story is set in Egypt, and not in the Land of Israel, the phenomenon is the same. Dry winds from the Sahara (south) or the Arabian (east) desert blow counter to the normal winds and have disastrous effects on agriculture.

Nile Luxor R19.jpg

(3) In the following passage, Job laments how cruel life can be, how easily people can lose all their worldly possessions in the blink of an eye. One day they are happy and wealthy and the next day, they have absolutely nothing left. To illustrate his point, Job compares God’s instantaneous punishments to the sudden terrifying power of a windstorm. Notice how vivid Job’s description is, including the hissing sound

“The east wind lifts them up and they are gone; it sweeps them out of their place. It hurls at them without pity; they flee from its power in headlong flight. It claps its hands at them, and hisses at them from its place.” (Job 27:21-23Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Palmyra sandstorm - panoramio.jpg

(4) In this passage, the prophet Ezekiel laments the destruction of the Kingdom of Judah at the hands of Babylon by alluding to a vineyard attacked by the east wind:

Your mother was like a vine in a vineyard transplanted by the water, fruitful and full of branches from abundant water. Its strongest stem became a ruler’s scepter; it towered aloft among the thick boughs; it stood out in its height with its mass of branches. But it was plucked up in fury, cast down to the ground; the east wind dried it up; its fruit was stripped off, its strong stem was withered; the fire consumed it. (Ezekiel 19:10-12Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Notice how Ezekiel refers to the “east wind” as well as “fire”. This is the precise combination that we are observing in the wildfires taking place right now in Israel.

Carmel Fire Highway2 near HaBonim 021210.jpg

(5) In these verses the prophet Isaiah compares the just rule of the future ideal king to the shelter provided to the traveler during a windstorm. Unlike the corrupt kings of the present era who oppress the people, the future messianic king will offer relief. Isaiah’s metaphors are all drawn from the natural realia – rocks, streams, wind and rainstorms – which he personally observed in the Land of Israel.

“See, a king will reign in righteousness, and princes will rule with justice. Each will be like a hiding place from the wind, a covert from the tempest, like streams of water in a dry place, like the shade of a great rock in a weary land.” (Isaiah 32:1-2Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Carmel Fire Smoke Dor-HaBonim 031210.jpg(6) In the following chapter of Psalms, the speaker wishes he could run away from the evils of the present and find shelter in the wilderness. Interestingly, he compares the difficult circumstances he is undergoing to the same two phenomena seen in the previous verse: windstorm and tempest.

And I say, “O that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest; truly, I would flee far away; I would lodge in the wilderness; Selah. I would hurry to find a shelter for myself from the raging wind and tempest.” (Psalm 55:6-8Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Bet Oren after fire 2010 (3).JPG

The Holy Land Studies Blog is devoted to the idea that the Bible is brimming with references to real life natural phenomena which are specifically characteristic of the Land of Israel. As you saw in this post, the “east wind” is just one example. Although many of these natural climatic and geographical features exist elsewhere in the world, to truly understand the meaning of these Scriptural references, you really need to situate yourself in the same particular context in which the Bible was actually written. Thank you for reading!

ndjili
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by ndjili »

He also gives this gem about the sacrament.

He says that “like ancient Israelites that an animal was brought to the alter when sin was committed. This was part of their purification and cleansing process. So then I ask you. What is the symbol of the animal the Israelites brought to the alter? Um in modern times we don’t bring animals. We bring the animal within ourselves to the alter. We place that, we ought to be placing the animal within ourselves upon the sacrament meeting alter. As we give it to the Lord, and He takes it from us, and takes this animal away from us. Takes away this animal desires and tendencies and this nature, this fallen nature we have. In doing so satisfaction, um occurs as we offers our sins upon the alters, both in church and in the temples, we, um, there’s a satisfaction that takes place, restitution of our souls with God , with our priest, with our Father in Heaven, with our Savior and we become clean and reconciled.”

he Somehow brought the idea of the scapegoat into the Sacrament and at the same time completely removed Christ and ALL Christ symbology. And made the Sacrament not about making a covenant and taking upon us the name of Christ, but instead some strange atonement ritual.

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inho
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

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I'm surprised that they got this backwards. East is where the sun rises. Sun and light are the symbols of good and Christ ('Light of the World'). Sunrise is also a symbol of new birth of resurrection.

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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by BeNotDeceived »

inho wrote: January 21st, 2018, 3:19 am I'm surprised that they got this backwards. East is where the sun rises. Sun and light are the symbols of good and Christ ('Light of the World'). Sunrise is also a symbol of new birth of resurrection.
Shows depth of understanding as that of a micro plane. :lol:

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AI2.0
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by AI2.0 »

Silver wrote: January 20th, 2018, 5:40 pm Great stuff, AI2.0.

Were they possibly confused about the east wind?

There are some interesting pictures at the link. (I need to go to Israel some day.)

https://blog.israelbiblicalstudies.com/ ... dies/wind/

What Is So Bad About The East Wind?
By Jonathan LipnickNovember 24, 2016No comments
PikiWiki Israel 18388 Cities in Israel.jpg

If you read the news from Israel regularly, you know that the last few days here (beginning Nov. 22, 2016) have been marked by widespread wildfires. Although it is still unclear what started these fires (a wave of terrorist arson is suspected), there is no doubt what has allowed them to spread so quickly: strong dry winds from the east. Above and below are images of wildfires in Israel in recent years, most notably the Mount Carmel wildfire (December 2010). It is common for such fires to take place in the autumn months, when the countryside is parched from the long dry summer.

PikiWiki Israel 18387 Cities in Israel.jpg

In the Land of Israel, winds normally blow from the Mediterranean Sea inland, in an eastward direction. This has the positive effect of bringing cool moist air (and rain during the winter months) to the entire country. However, the opposite can also happen. When the winds blow from the Arabian desert region westwards, the result is very unpleasant. Hot dry winds distribute a caustic blanket of dust across the entire country. The minute grains of desert dust kill crops and get into every crevice making breathing very difficult. The image below is a satellite photograph showing a massive cloud of dust from the Arabia desert (bottom) headed for Israel (top) on May 13, 2005.

Redsea sandstorm May13-2005.jpg

The common Hebrew word for wind is ruah (רוּחַ), which can also have the figurative meaning of “spirit”. But there is a special word for the eastern wind: kadim (קָדִים), which comes from the root KDM (קדם) meaning “east” or “in front of”. This is because in the mindset of the people of the Bible, one stands eastwards looking towards the rising sun. Therefore, in some places in the Bible the word for north is “left” and the word for south is “right”. The same is true in modern English, where we use the word “orient” to refer to getting ourselves geographically situated. The word “orient” comes from the Latin for “rising” and refers to the east, where the sun rises. By the way, this type of deadly east wind is well-known around the Mediterranean Basin. In Italy, for example, the dry desert east wind is called sirocco, which comes from the Arabic word for east, sharqui.

PikiWiki Israel 10864 Cities in Israel.jpg

The prophets of the Hebrew Bible knew this phenomenon well, and alluded to it as part of their visions of catastrophe. In this blog post I would like to take a look at a few biblical verses that mention such strong east winds.

File:PikiWiki Israel 14409 Storm in Eilat.JPG

(1) The prophet Hosea predicts that due to the idolatry and sinfulness of the people of Israel, God will punish them. This punishment will be unexpected and quick, similar to the way in which the east wind suddenly covers the entire Land of Israel with dust, drying up natural sources of water.

Although he may flourish among rushes, the east wind shall come, a blast from the Lord, rising from the wilderness; and his fountain shall dry up, his spring shall be parched. It shall strip his treasury of every precious thing. (Hosea 13:15Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Notice how the prophet very clearly notes that this type of destructive wind comes from the “wilderness”, that is the Arabian desert to the east of the Land of Israel.

Flickr - The U.S. Army - Waiting out the dust storm.jpg

(2) In the Book of Genesis, Joseph is imprisoned in Egypt and becomes famous for interpreting dreams. Pharaoh asks Joseph to analyze the following dream:

“I fell asleep a second time and I saw in my dream seven ears of grain, full and good, growing on one stalk, and seven ears, withered, thin, and blighted by the east wind, sprouting after them; and the thin ears swallowed up the seven good ears. But when I told it to the magicians, there was no one who could explain it to me.” (Genesis 41:22-24Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

File:PikiWiki Israel 17940 wind.jpg

Joseph correctly understands that this dream signifies seven years of famine. Although this story is set in Egypt, and not in the Land of Israel, the phenomenon is the same. Dry winds from the Sahara (south) or the Arabian (east) desert blow counter to the normal winds and have disastrous effects on agriculture.

Nile Luxor R19.jpg

(3) In the following passage, Job laments how cruel life can be, how easily people can lose all their worldly possessions in the blink of an eye. One day they are happy and wealthy and the next day, they have absolutely nothing left. To illustrate his point, Job compares God’s instantaneous punishments to the sudden terrifying power of a windstorm. Notice how vivid Job’s description is, including the hissing sound

“The east wind lifts them up and they are gone; it sweeps them out of their place. It hurls at them without pity; they flee from its power in headlong flight. It claps its hands at them, and hisses at them from its place.” (Job 27:21-23Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Palmyra sandstorm - panoramio.jpg

(4) In this passage, the prophet Ezekiel laments the destruction of the Kingdom of Judah at the hands of Babylon by alluding to a vineyard attacked by the east wind:

Your mother was like a vine in a vineyard transplanted by the water, fruitful and full of branches from abundant water. Its strongest stem became a ruler’s scepter; it towered aloft among the thick boughs; it stood out in its height with its mass of branches. But it was plucked up in fury, cast down to the ground; the east wind dried it up; its fruit was stripped off, its strong stem was withered; the fire consumed it. (Ezekiel 19:10-12Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Notice how Ezekiel refers to the “east wind” as well as “fire”. This is the precise combination that we are observing in the wildfires taking place right now in Israel.

Carmel Fire Highway2 near HaBonim 021210.jpg

(5) In these verses the prophet Isaiah compares the just rule of the future ideal king to the shelter provided to the traveler during a windstorm. Unlike the corrupt kings of the present era who oppress the people, the future messianic king will offer relief. Isaiah’s metaphors are all drawn from the natural realia – rocks, streams, wind and rainstorms – which he personally observed in the Land of Israel.

“See, a king will reign in righteousness, and princes will rule with justice. Each will be like a hiding place from the wind, a covert from the tempest, like streams of water in a dry place, like the shade of a great rock in a weary land.” (Isaiah 32:1-2Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Carmel Fire Smoke Dor-HaBonim 031210.jpg(6) In the following chapter of Psalms, the speaker wishes he could run away from the evils of the present and find shelter in the wilderness. Interestingly, he compares the difficult circumstances he is undergoing to the same two phenomena seen in the previous verse: windstorm and tempest.

And I say, “O that I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and be at rest; truly, I would flee far away; I would lodge in the wilderness; Selah. I would hurry to find a shelter for myself from the raging wind and tempest.” (Psalm 55:6-8Open in Logos Bible Software (if available))

Bet Oren after fire 2010 (3).JPG

The Holy Land Studies Blog is devoted to the idea that the Bible is brimming with references to real life natural phenomena which are specifically characteristic of the Land of Israel. As you saw in this post, the “east wind” is just one example. Although many of these natural climatic and geographical features exist elsewhere in the world, to truly understand the meaning of these Scriptural references, you really need to situate yourself in the same particular context in which the Bible was actually written. Thank you for reading!
Yes, that may be. From the Book on Symbolism I quoted above; "The infamous east wind carries such negative connotations that few associate it with the divine, as will be seen in the following examples. However, anciently it was perceived as the instrument of God's wrath. Indeed, the prophet Hosea actually called it the wind of the Lord.(Hosea 13:15) Of it, one commentator wrote;

The east wind was the wind coming from the desert regions of Syria and Arabia...It comes in a season marked by low humidity, high winds, and extremely hot weather...This east wind can be called 'the wind of Yahweh," for he controls it. He uses the east wind as an instrument of his judgment. It was a strong east wind that drove back the waters of the Red Sea and permitted the Hebrews to cross on dry ground." pges 153-154

The author also pointed out that while some Christian religions view Adam and Eve's expulsion from the Garden, eastward, as negative, LDS have more enlightenment on this so we see it as a positive. "If something moves eastward, it is symbolically moving 'toward God'. Thus the Fall was not a tragedy wherin all was lost and thrown into chaos as a result of Adam and Eve's transgression. On the contrary, their expulsion from Eden began their mortal journey along the only path that would prepare them for eternal glory; it was a movement toward God in the truest sense." pg 152

I wonder if Eric has been reading modern Evangelical sources to learn about his subject and so, he's been influenced to think that West is positive and East Negative and most likely Julie justs goes along when it comes to some biblical topics she's got little knowledge on.

This is my suspicion for why he made this error.

Juliet
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by Juliet »

With the brain, what is the east side of the brain controls the west side of the body. It makes me think of that saying, the first will be last.

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BeNotDeceived
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wrong information

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Juliet wrote: January 21st, 2018, 11:23 am With the brain, what is the east side of the brain controls the west side of the body. It makes me think of that saying, the first will be last.
A key to the current conundrum is that the right is controlled by the left. :twisted:

EvanLM
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by EvanLM »

listened to a few Julie and Eric podcasts a long time ago. thanks for reminding me why I quit. False mixed with truth

Nomanknowsmyname
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by Nomanknowsmyname »

AI2.0 wrote: January 20th, 2018, 4:17 pm In the latest podcast, Eric Smith 'educates' the audience on the temple. The problem is, given the very big mistake he made, I don't know what we can trust in what he shares.

In podcast 58, 'Temple Worship',

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/juli ... 4_30-08_00

This is about 15 minutes into the podcast. Eric and Julie both opine about 'east' and 'west' and they both get it backwards, suggesting that 'west' is moving closer to God and leaving the 'east' which is away from God. Eric says that we move from the 'east where things are unclean' to the 'west where things are clean'. This is just the opposite to how the Bible and the ancients viewed and used 'east' and 'west' symbolically.

I went to my book, 'The Lost Language of Symbolism--An essential guide for recognizing and interpreting symbols of the Gospel' and there were several pages of evidence to show that East is the positive symbolic direction and West is the negative symbolic direction. Leave it to Julie and Eric to mess this simple thing up as well. Why? Because they aren't inspired, it's as simple as that.

In a nutshell;

West: 'the most ominous of the four directions employed in bibilical text', traditionally carries negative connotations. 'undesirable, sorrow, chaos, evil, darkness, the kingdom of the devil, the dying of the sun, and death itself'. pg. 166

East; "Anciently it was the direction that represented God.' If something came from the east it was represenative of the idea that it was of God, sent by God, or godly in nature.' pg. 150-151 The lost language of Symbolism, Alonzo L. Gaskill.

In your own studies in the scriptures, you can see this clearly. The wisemen come from the east, the Savior, returns from the East, the star was in the east, the doors of the temple face east, etc. there's so much to show this, which is why when Eric started down this train of thought I immediately knew it sounded 'off'.

The danger here is that he's sharing a lot of information and frankly, I am not certain it can be trusted to be accurate. Interesting, Julie Rowe chimed in and supported him with this reversal of the symbols of East and West.
The journey through the temple is a journey into the presence of God, or a reversal of Adam and Eve's exodus from the Garden of Eden. God placed cherubim "at the east of the garden of Eden . . . to keep the way of the tree of life" (Gen. 3:24). This implies that Adam and Eve travelled eastward after they were expelled from the Garden of Eden. After Cain slew Abel he was "shut out from the presence of the Lord, and . . . dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden." (Moses 5:41) In ancient times the entrances to Israelite temples faced east, and most modern temples follow the same pattern. Progression in ancient Israelite temples was correlated with westward movement from the tabernacle of the congregation (the telestial kingdom) to the holy place (the terrestrial kingdom), and finally to the most holy place (the celestial kingdom). Eastward movement is correlated with the fall and spiritual death, while westward movement is correlated with atonement and spiritual progress.

Simply saying "east = good" and "west = bad" is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. One must also account for the direction of movement; for if one comes from the east they are travelling to the west, and vice versa. God is more concerned with our trajectory than with our position. He also cares far more about where we are going than where we have been. I know essentially nothing about Alonzo L. Gaskill; but if he is a competent and reputable scholar I suspect that he would agree with everything I've said here, because most LDS scholars do. Also, do not interpret this as an endorsement of anything that Julie Rowe or Eric Smith have written or said. There is more that I could say about this, but you can find more information here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=1L4lC ... en&f=false

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfIs9YKYrZE&t=1s

Prana
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by Prana »

Pretty sure if you took everything Julie Rowe taught and did the exact opposite, you’d be ahead of the curve.

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technomagus
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by technomagus »

Considering Julie Rowe was a close confidante of two multiple murderers who used his heretical ideas to justify the murders of children, who firmly believes in his heretical doctrines and teaching , I would consider every word spewing from her mouth to be poison.

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BeNotDeceived
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teaches wrong info

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Prana wrote: July 21st, 2021, 8:35 pm Pretty sure if you took everything Julie Rowe taught and did the exact opposite, you’d be ahead of the curve.
Nevertheless me sent z Chad type Daybell a little photo album where the last page was intentionally left blank. The 38th President passed soon afterward inspiring me strange poem that is posted in another thread.

Nevertheless, but not never. :geek: dbnp

Prana
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by Prana »

Sorry bro, I only usually speak plain English. Wondering what the hell your inferring all the time but not that much.

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BringerOfJoy
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Re: Julie Rowe's podcast co-host, Eric Smith teaches wrong information;

Post by BringerOfJoy »

I realize this thread is an oldie moldy that got resuscitated, but I could only laugh at using Alonzo Gaskill to interpret Julie Rowe. If ever there were a COUPLE of contrary indicators. . .

(though admittedly the Symbolism book is one of his better attempts).

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