In the words of Charlie Brown, "we're doomed", that's how it feels anyway.

[cyclOps]

Makes me think how the American Indians must have felt being over ran with European illegal aliens that destroyed their culture and way of life.

And for some reason, because I’m white, I’m supposed to feel guilty and responsible for that.

Also, you don’t accept “modern law” interpretation of that generalized event, yet you apply the term “illegal aliens”. Well, I don’t accept your interpretation of what happened.

[Onsdag]

When I read through this thread I was reminded of President Uchtdorf's recent talk:

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng

Let us be glad brothers and sisters! There is so much for us to be excited about right now and in the future!

[gardener4life]

Makes me think how the American Indians must have felt being over ran with European illegal aliens that destroyed their culture and way of life.

And for some reason, because I’m white, I’m supposed to feel guilty and responsible for that.

Also, you don’t accept “modern law” interpretation of that generalized event, yet you apply the term “illegal aliens”. Well, I don’t accept your interpretation of what happened.

Just a thought here. It's in the Book of Mormon that the Native Americans had lost their protection and rights to this land and that's why the Lord gave this land to the Gentiles. It's not the European people's fault (but it does say that if many nations knew of this land they would overrun it.) Its very clearly stated that 'because of their many murders' (and also robbing and constant war) that the Lord would give the land to another people (which was the same pattern as prescribed in 2 Nephi Chapter 1). And that the Gentiles would lose their rights to this land too if they embraced works of darkness and became a society of darkness as well (and that after receiving the land from the Indians). (See 1 Nephi Chapter 13. This chapter is so important! It shows and correlates with 2 Nephi Chapter 1 the pattern of if you reject God, then God will give this land to another people.)

This is scriptural.

Jaredites --> Embrace secret combinations almost as soon as they get to this land. Wars, murders, secret combinations upon the face of the land. Patricide, slavery, and bondage over king rights throughought the book. They to lose this land.

Ether 11:1,12,20

1 And there came also in the days of Com many prophets, and prophesied of the destruction of that great people except they should repent, and turn unto the Lord, and forsake their murders and wickedness.

Ancient Israel --> (scattering and pruning like the others after rejecting God) (Quoted throughout the Old Testament for their wickedness and following the Canaanite idol worship and grove Baal worship traditions, etc.)

And the Jews --> (Same pattern of rejection but slower rate of decay than the Northern 10 kingdoms.)

1 Nephi 19:13 And as for those who are at Jerusalem, saith the prophet, they shall be scourged by all people, because they crucify the God of Israel, and turn their hearts aside, rejecting signs and wonders, and the power and glory of the God of Israel.

Alma 26:36

36 Now if this is boasting, even so will I boast; for this is my life and my light, my joy and my salvation, and my redemption from everlasting wo. Yea, blessed is the name of my God, who has been mindful of this people, who are a branch of the tree of Israel, and has been lost from its body in a strange land; yea, I say, blessed be the name of my God, who has been mindful of us, wanderers in a strange land. (Nephi writes that they were taken to a new vineyard where wickedness and rejecting God had lost them their old home.)

Nephites -->

Helaman 4:13

13 And because of this their great wickedness, and their boastings in their own strength, they were left in their own strength; therefore they did not prosper, but were afflicted and smitten, and driven before the Lamanites, until they had lost possession of almost all their lands.

Helaman 6:2 (shows it's already happening early on). For behold, there were many of the Nephites who had become ahardened and impenitent and grossly wicked, insomuch that they did reject the word of God and all the preaching and prophesying which did come among them.

Gentiles & Nephites & whoever comes after the Gentiles (perhaps a hybrid of Gentiles & Lamanite descendants or someone else)-->

***1 Nephi 13:14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten. 15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain. (Also preceding verses are interesting. *** (We believe that a man is accountable for his own sins and not for Adam's transgressions applies here too.)

2 Nephi 1:10 (And applies to any people coming to this land and has always had this same pattern from the days of Adam down until current day regarding anyone possessing the Promised Land.)

10 But behold, when the time cometh that they shall dwindle in unbelief, after they have received so great blessings from the hand of the Lord—having a knowledge of the creation of the earth, and all men, knowing the great and marvelous works of the Lord from the creation of the world; having power given them to do all things by faith; having all the commandments from the beginning, and having been brought by his infinite goodness into this precious land of promise—behold, I say, if the day shall come that they will reject the Holy One of Israel, the true Messiah, their Redeemer and their God, behold, the judgments of him that is just shall rest upon them. (other verses show that they will be accountable and warned before this happens and we have been warned by the scriptures, the Restoration, and the missionaries throughout the Restoration; 'neither will he have the Gentiles remain in their blindness' is quoted in other verses.)

Another point of warning; the verses in 1 Nephi 13 early on show that the Gentile Nations have the great and abominable church among them early on before coming to this land...which slayeth the Saints of God and bindeth them up. And that rules over them. This is a warning to help them avoid the pattern of the others going on before them of losing their blessings, rejecting God, and becoming a wicked and idolatrous people like the others.

[Chip]

That's right. The Book of Mormon explains exactly why the remaining Lamanites would be nearly killed off, and the land given to the Europeans. And the Europeans would be in sufficient darkness, themselves, at that time, to not deal justly with the Lamanites. God's plan.

Now, we seem to be falling into the same kind of disaster that swallowed the Lamanites.

[Vision]

DC

The laws you are referring to are only modern law. My view is not politically correct it's factual history. Why did the European settlers trade beads for Long Island if the Indians didn't own the land?

It's almost comical that you accuse me of being a text book historian, and you use in your argument a text book anecdote that probably had no factual basis whatsoever.
Has anyone ever found the deed the settlers received for the beads? Ha ha, that does not require an answer. It's what's known as a rhetorical question, which does not require an answer.

I think it's like someone posted above, you have some personal feeling about this. Let it go. The Indians were not a documented society.
dc

DC. I don't take things personal. It's just a debate, not like it's going to change anything in the real world. There actually is quite a bit of documented history. I did some reading on the topic earlier today and I learned a few things. There are recorded deeds from the Indians in fact which pretty much destroys the un claimed land theory. http://www.pilgrimhallmuseum.org/in_the ... #1649_deed

Who do you think wrote those deeds? The settlers, or the illiterate natives, who couldn't read nor write, and thus "made their mark" on the document?
Why were they all signed with "X"?
dc

There you go again assuming the natives were illiterate. How would they even know what an X is if they were illiterate?

[Vision]

There actually is quite a bit of documented history. I did some reading on the topic earlier today and I learned a few things. There are recorded deeds from the Indians. http://www.pilgrimhallmuseum.org/in_the ... #1649_deed

Thanks for the history lesson.

Your welcome

[Joel]

I have spoken plainly, it will only get worse.

[David13]

It's almost comical that you accuse me of being a text book historian, and you use in your argument a text book anecdote that probably had no factual basis whatsoever.
Has anyone ever found the deed the settlers received for the beads? Ha ha, that does not require an answer. It's what's known as a rhetorical question, which does not require an answer.

I think it's like someone posted above, you have some personal feeling about this. Let it go. The Indians were not a documented society.
dc

DC. I don't take things personal. It's just a debate, not like it's going to change anything in the real world. There actually is quite a bit of documented history. I did some reading on the topic earlier today and I learned a few things. There are recorded deeds from the Indians in fact which pretty much destroys the un claimed land theory. http://www.pilgrimhallmuseum.org/in_the ... #1649_deed

Who do you think wrote those deeds? The settlers, or the illiterate natives, who couldn't read nor write, and thus "made their mark" on the document?
Why were they all signed with "X"?
dc

There you go again assuming the natives were illiterate. How would they even know what an X is if they were illiterate?

Yeah, right. They were all just named X.

Ha ha.
dc