Recreational use of...

[Spaced_Out]

Even if all laws were annulled, I don't believe the situation will be as bad as you describe. However, even if it were, I still think it better than the unrighteous dominion we've got under our current system. Agency, agency, agency.

That is what they said about, pornography, opioids and pain killers - now add another drug to the mix that is easy to grow and requires no chemical knowledge.

[gardener4life]

You guys are free to use your agency and freedom to choose to go destroy yourselves and go into captivity. Piece piece you will whittle away your freedom until you lose your agency.

Have you guys looked at what's going on Mexico?

That's the future of open drugs and no regulation of drugs. The only jobs are working in cocaine and marijauna fields. Milk in places costs more than it does here. People can't support themselves. Their infrastructure and government are run by cartels. Corruption everywhere, you pay bribes to get jobs. Nobody chooses what's right, but what's right for the dollar/peso.

If you keep choosing for open 'herb use' that's where this country will end up. Talk to Latin people who came from there. They'll tell you how it is and how it got so bad that even if you wanted to go out and change your life you couldn't because the infrastructure was all messed up. Imagine it taking days or weeks of pay to just buy milk or a chicken that lays eggs.

If you let marijuana be openly used recreationally it won't stop there. Next it will be pushed for cocaine, heroine, and meth. Are you naively going to think they wouldn't go right to the next thing? Look how fast recreational use was passed after the door was opened by medical use. That's how it will be for the other drugs too.

[abijah]

If all laws relating to cannabis were to be removed...!!, what is stopping people growing it like crazy in their backyards and going around the neighbourhood and handing it out for free to all people of all ages. It is real easy to grow.
There are very many people who have the "rastafarian" religious outlook on cannabis and think if everybody smokes the stuff then there will be world peace. Cannabis would be like porn found everywhere and be basically free, yeah the cannabis drug dealers would eventually disappear like the modern porn industry - but the dealers of harder drugs would make a killing as it is a gateway drug for harder stuff, and many other social ills.

I think the legalisation of weed would have an overall detrimental effect on society (though I feel it would be more gradual than dramatic), but I'm curious as to what you feel would be a suitable alternative? The American government can't fight the plant, just look how successful the war on drugs was. Here where I live it's illegal yet it's rampant on the streets to the point that the police are hardly even bothered. If you are staunchly against it's legalisation, do you advocate the policy of criminalising it? In my opinion that's no better, wasting tax money and police efforts on such a silly thing. From a realistic perspective, people will do what they want, despite what the law may say.

[Silver]

You guys are free to use your agency and freedom to choose to go destroy yourselves and go into captivity. Piece piece you will whittle away your freedom until you lose your agency.

Have you guys looked at what's going on Mexico?

That's the future of open drugs and no regulation of drugs. The only jobs are working in cocaine and marijauna fields. Milk in places costs more than it does here. People can't support themselves. Their infrastructure and government are run by cartels. Corruption everywhere, you pay bribes to get jobs. Nobody chooses what's right, but what's right for the dollar/peso.

If you keep choosing for open 'herb use' that's where this country will end up. Talk to Latin people who came from there. They'll tell you how it is and how it got so bad that even if you wanted to go out and change your life you couldn't because the infrastructure was all messed up. Imagine it taking days or weeks of pay to just buy milk or a chicken that lays eggs.

If you let marijuana be openly used recreationally it won't stop there. Next it will be pushed for cocaine, heroine, and meth. Are you naively going to think they wouldn't go right to the next thing? Look how fast recreational use was passed after the door was opened by medical use. That's how it will be for the other drugs too.

I've made dozens, if not hundreds of trips to Mexico for my work. Interior and border towns. You don't know what you're talking about.

[abijah]

You guys are free to use your agency and freedom to choose to go destroy yourselves and go into captivity. Piece piece you will whittle away your freedom until you lose your agency.

Have you guys looked at what's going on Mexico?

That's the future of open drugs and no regulation of drugs. The only jobs are working in cocaine and marijauna fields. Milk in places costs more than it does here. People can't support themselves. Their infrastructure and government are run by cartels. Corruption everywhere, you pay bribes to get jobs. Nobody chooses what's right, but what's right for the dollar/peso.

If you keep choosing for open 'herb use' that's where this country will end up. Talk to Latin people who came from there. They'll tell you how it is and how it got so bad that even if you wanted to go out and change your life you couldn't because the infrastructure was all messed up. Imagine it taking days or weeks of pay to just buy milk or a chicken that lays eggs.

If you let marijuana be openly used recreationally it won't stop there. Next it will be pushed for cocaine, heroine, and meth. Are you naively going to think they wouldn't go right to the next thing? Look how fast recreational use was passed after the door was opened by medical use. That's how it will be for the other drugs too.

I agree it is clear to see the deterioration of morality at a rate that seems to pick up increasingly as time goes on. While not completely, I do feel however that drug use and its increasing social acceptability is more of a symptom than a root problem. As is often discussed in gospel circles, I feel it all comes back down to the strength of the family unit, and moral values. Pornography, violence, substance abuse - they all stem from the breakdown of the family and society's estrangement from gospel truths.

[larsenb]

. . . . Even if all laws were annulled, I don't believe the situation will be as bad as you describe. However, even if it were, I still think it better than the unrighteous dominion we've got under our current system. Agency, agency, agency.

In 2001, Portugal decriminalized all drugs. This seems to be working for Portugal, a rather conservative country. So why hasn't the world copied their example? Here is an article by Susana Ferreira, on their experience at: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/d ... -copied-it

Here is the longer version at: Decriminalization: A Love Story : https://www.thecommononline.org/decrimi ... ove-story/

Extract:

Since it decriminalised all drugs in 2001, Portugal has seen dramatic drops in overdoses, HIV infection and drug-related crime. By Susana Ferreira
Tuesday 5 December 2017 01.00 EST Last modified on Tuesday 5 December 2017 07.47 EST

When the drugs came, they hit all at once. It was the 80s, and by the time one in 10 people had slipped into the depths of heroin use – bankers, university students, carpenters, socialites, miners – Portugal was in a state of panic.

Álvaro Pereira was working as a family doctor in Olhão in southern Portugal. “People were injecting themselves in the street, in public squares, in gardens,” he told me. “At that time, not a day passed when there wasn’t a robbery at a local business, or a mugging.”

The crisis began in the south. The 80s were a prosperous time in Olhão, a fishing town 31 miles west of the Spanish border. Coastal waters filled fishermen’s nets from the Gulf of Cádiz to Morocco, tourism was growing, and currency flowed throughout the southern Algarve region. But by the end of the decade, heroin began washing up on Olhão’s shores. Overnight, Pereira’s beloved slice of the Algarve coast became one of the drug capitals of Europe: one in every 100 Portuguese was battling a problematic heroin addiction at that time, but the number was even higher in the south. Headlines in the local press raised the alarm about overdose deaths and rising crime. The rate of HIV infection in Portugal became the highest in the European Union. Pereira recalled desperate patients and families beating a path to his door, terrified, bewildered, begging for help. “I got involved,” he said, “only because I was ignorant.” . . . . .

Portugal’s policy rests on three pillars: One, that there’s no such thing as a soft or hard drug, only healthy and unhealthy relationships with drugs; Two, that an individual’s unhealthy relationship with drugs often conceals frayed relationships with loved ones, with the world around them, and with themselves; and Three, that the eradication of all drugs is an impossible goal.

End Extract.

[Silver]

Even if all laws were annulled, I don't believe the situation will be as bad as you describe. However, even if it were, I still think it better than the unrighteous dominion we've got under our current system. Agency, agency, agency.

That is what they said about, pornography, opioids and pain killers - now add another drug to the mix that is easy to grow and requires no chemical knowledge.

Remember these words of wisdom:
D&C 89:
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

So far, with the wicked leadership we've had for generations in American politics, there has been no effort to root out the guys at the top who profit. Stop putting teen-aged users in jail and string up some bankers. Don't stop until you get the job done.

[JohnnyL]

This is why the "war on drugs" is such a sham.

First, we know most of the "other side" is either the CIA, or is in cahoots with some three-letter government agency. IOW, the enemy is us.

Second, anyone else with money and power can join or influence the team.

There are good people in those agencies trying to do good, but I know some are frustrated, as their hands are tied.

Why do they do it? It provides a lot of black money. It puts harmless, "normal" (and middle-class at the highest) people in jail, or provides leverage for something illegal they want. It's a big game of how much they can get for hooking everyone up with what they want: the politician, the jailor corporation, the lobbyists, etc.

Governments want people to be gainfully employed and paying taxes. It is a fallacy to think they want their citizens in jail.
Most laws are way too soft and people get off too easily. The gov could easily increase jail population by ten times just by getting harder on offenders like home break-ins, robbery etc...

You might want to take a look into prisons-for-profit.

[PressingForward]

You guys are free to use your agency and freedom to choose to go destroy yourselves and go into captivity. Piece piece you will whittle away your freedom until you lose your agency.

Have you guys looked at what's going on Mexico?

That's the future of open drugs and no regulation of drugs. The only jobs are working in cocaine and marijauna fields. Milk in places costs more than it does here. People can't support themselves. Their infrastructure and government are run by cartels. Corruption everywhere, you pay bribes to get jobs. Nobody chooses what's right, but what's right for the dollar/peso.

If you keep choosing for open 'herb use' that's where this country will end up. Talk to Latin people who came from there. They'll tell you how it is and how it got so bad that even if you wanted to go out and change your life you couldn't because the infrastructure was all messed up. Imagine it taking days or weeks of pay to just buy milk or a chicken that lays eggs.

If you let marijuana be openly used recreationally it won't stop there. Next it will be pushed for cocaine, heroine, and meth. Are you naively going to think they wouldn't go right to the next thing? Look how fast recreational use was passed after the door was opened by medical use. That's how it will be for the other drugs too.

I've made dozens, if not hundreds of trips to Mexico for my work. Interior and border towns. You don't know what you're talking about.

Mexico is actually safer today than 30 years ago as a whole. However border towns had a bump in violence a few years ago, but I’ll go anytime! Chicago is a different story.......

[harakim]

You cannot put opioids and hallucinogens in the same category. Opioids destroy lives and families. Hallucinogens by themselves are not addictive. Ask davedan how many people in his ER have died of an LSD overdose. Or mushrooms. haha
Furthermore, I challenge you to find a single reference that says the church disapproves of hallucinogens.
My mind has a different way of thinking than most people and I find that people who haven taken hallucinogens are the only ones that understand many things I have come to know. One day, if they are legal, I might even take them myself. I think it removes the veil to a degree.

The HG is what brings knowledge from behind the veil.
Using mind altering substances to get spiritual experiences - the only spiritual thing you will experience is possession by Satan and his daemons.
I have counselled people with substance addictions - the one leads to the other and those that are addicted will do anything to get a fix if they are out of other drugs they will take pain killers or use cannabis or sniff gasoline or glue. Making such powerful drugs freely available (any person could just grew them in a pot plant in their room) will lead to a massive drug use increase and dependence and all the social ills that come from it...

These things are already happening, like pornography it will be a flood of pollution that will overtake the entire world and become endemic even in the church and will destroy hundreds of millions of lives.

Hallucinogen are in the same addictive category as other addictive drugs, you have no idea of what you are talking about. Speak to a recovered drug addict, they will all tell you the substances are addictive and soul and body destroying and against the HG.


WHAT IS AN HALLUCINOGEN?
Hallucinogens are drugs that cause hallucinations. Users see images, hear sounds and feel sensations that seem very real but do not exist. Some hallucinogens also produce sudden and unpredictable changes in the mood of those who use them.

Drug Use
Though not specifically mentioned in the Word of Wisdom, the use of illegal, or unnecessary legal, narcotics and hallucinogens and other harmful substances are against the spirit of the Word of Wisdom. Mormons have been commanded in modern days not to use them because consuming anything—just as doing anything—that hinders the Holy Ghost from being with them or hurts them in any way is not pleasing to God. The former prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, said,

I am convinced that [drug] use is an affront to God. He is our Creator. We are made in his image. These remarkable and wonderful bodies are His handiwork. Does anyone think that he can deliberately injure and impair his body without affronting its Creator? . . . Can anyone doubt that the taking of these mind- and body-destroying drugs is an act of unholiness? Does anyone think that the Spirit of God can dwell in the temple of the body when the body is defiled by these destructive elements? . . God grant you the strength to stand free from this enslavement and from the personal holocaust of destruction which inevitably follows. [1]
Drug users will not be in a condition in which the Holy Ghost can readily work with them, so they lose the protection, guidance, comfort, and knowledge the Holy Ghost provides. Boyd K. Packer, a Mormon apostle, said,

If we abuse our body with habit-forming substances, or misuse prescription drugs, we draw curtains which close off the light of spiritual communication. Narcotic addiction serves the design of the prince of darkness, for it disrupts the channel to the holy spirit of truth. . . . Addiction has the capacity to disconnect the human will and nullify moral agency. It can rob one the power to decide. [2]
Mormons have many experiences that convince them of the importance of the presence of the Holy Ghost for their safety and welfare. To them, taking anything into their bodies that repels the Holy Ghost is like taking off a bullet-proof vest in a war zone.

Russell M. Nelson, an apostle who is also a physician, states that,
The noble attributes of reason, integrity, and dignity, which distinguish men and women from all other forms of life, are often the first to be attacked by drugs and alcohol. . . .We are free to take drugs or not, But once we choose to use a habit-forming drug, we are bound to the consequences of the choice. Addiction surrenders later freedom to choose. Through chemical means, one can literally become disconnected from his or her own will! [3]

Church statement medical marijuana
http://fox13now.com/2016/02/12/lds-chur ... marijuana/

They are talking about habit-forming drugs. Name one person who was ever addicted to DMT or something like that. It is you who doesn't know what they are talking about. I will agree that Marijuana can be a habit-forming drug, though.

Also, I doubt Cocaine is legal in Mexico. I wouldn't be surprised if Marijuana is also illegal.

[harakim]

So you simply could not back up your claim that “cities” that legalized marijuana(it’s actually states) are completely falling apart. You deflect to prescription drug pain killer use, and also tell me I’m living in denial. Actually Spaced, it is you who simply can not accept facts and see reality.
Who said anything about marijuana use in the millennium? Are you for banning all bad things that are against the Gospel?
I think we had another brother with the same idea and plan, it didn’t work out for him at all, another fact.

Evil is evil and you support evil you run into problems, cannabis usage will go up, drug dependency will go up, crime and usage of harder drugs will go up. Cannabis will be more affordable and available, the same happening with pain killers, same monkey just different name.

These things are already happening. I never listed any references as it is blatantly obvious, hear is a few for you to smoke.

THE UNEXPECTED SIDE EFFECTS OF LEGALIZING WEED
http://www.newsweek.com/unexpected-side ... eed-339931
Other symptoms of Colorado’s pot culture include increased use among teens, resulting in educational problems in middle schools and high schools, a spike in “edibles”-related emergency room visits, consumption by children and pets resulting in illness and death and regulatory confusion surrounding public consumption and enforcement.

Colorado’s addiction to cannabis revenue may prove to be the most harmful implication of all. Towns such as De Beque, where cannabis is replacing coal and cattle as a means of income, imperil themselves by staking the future on a substance that is still illegal in most states and that half of Americans still regard as a social evil.

HomeUS News
Marijuana-related deaths, suspensions & problems spike in Colorado – report
https://www.rt.com/usa/316148-marijuana ... ies-study/

A new study of marijuana drug use in Colorado found increases in marijuana-related traffic deaths, hospital visits, school suspensions, lab explosions, and pet poisonings. The study was conducted by a federal government program.
The 166-page report released this month analyzed the effects of legalizing marijuana for medical and recreational use in Colorado spanning the time period from 2006 to the present. Along with the state of Washington, Colorado is considered as something of laboratory in which the effects of legalizing marijuana use can be studied.

The study showed that the number of drivers testing positive for marijuana increased 100 percent from 2007 to 2012, with marijuana-related fatalities doubling from 37 to 78. Traffic fatalities total around 500 a year in the state.

So this statistics actually support the points of view of most everyone else. If marijuana had nothing at all to do with traffic fatalities, you would expect the rate of traffic fatalities to go up proportional to the number of people using marijuana. So there are three possibilities. Marijuana use has less than doubled, marijuana use has doubled, marijuana use has more than doubled.

If marijuana use has less than doubled, then it means legalizing it hasn't increased popularity very much.
If marijuana use has doubled, it means that there is absolutely no correlation between marijuana use and traffic accidents.
If marijuana use has more than doubled, then it means there is either a negative correlation for marijuana use and traffic accidents OR the people who only started using it when it was legalized are more responsible with it, meaning they are probably not now living in the gutter.

And tent cities have been a thing since 2008, so that has nothing to do with the legalization of Marijuana.

[Spaced_Out]

So you simply could not back up your claim that “cities” that legalized marijuana(it’s actually states) are completely falling apart. You deflect to prescription drug pain killer use, and also tell me I’m living in denial. Actually Spaced, it is you who simply can not accept facts and see reality.
Who said anything about marijuana use in the millennium? Are you for banning all bad things that are against the Gospel?
I think we had another brother with the same idea and plan, it didn’t work out for him at all, another fact.

Evil is evil and you support evil you run into problems, cannabis usage will go up, drug dependency will go up, crime and usage of harder drugs will go up. Cannabis will be more affordable and available, the same happening with pain killers, same monkey just different name.

These things are already happening. I never listed any references as it is blatantly obvious, hear is a few for you to smoke.

THE UNEXPECTED SIDE EFFECTS OF LEGALIZING WEED
http://www.newsweek.com/unexpected-side ... eed-339931
Other symptoms of Colorado’s pot culture include increased use among teens, resulting in educational problems in middle schools and high schools, a spike in “edibles”-related emergency room visits, consumption by children and pets resulting in illness and death and regulatory confusion surrounding public consumption and enforcement.

Colorado’s addiction to cannabis revenue may prove to be the most harmful implication of all. Towns such as De Beque, where cannabis is replacing coal and cattle as a means of income, imperil themselves by staking the future on a substance that is still illegal in most states and that half of Americans still regard as a social evil.

HomeUS News
Marijuana-related deaths, suspensions & problems spike in Colorado – report
https://www.rt.com/usa/316148-marijuana ... ies-study/

A new study of marijuana drug use in Colorado found increases in marijuana-related traffic deaths, hospital visits, school suspensions, lab explosions, and pet poisonings. The study was conducted by a federal government program.
The 166-page report released this month analyzed the effects of legalizing marijuana for medical and recreational use in Colorado spanning the time period from 2006 to the present. Along with the state of Washington, Colorado is considered as something of laboratory in which the effects of legalizing marijuana use can be studied.

The study showed that the number of drivers testing positive for marijuana increased 100 percent from 2007 to 2012, with marijuana-related fatalities doubling from 37 to 78. Traffic fatalities total around 500 a year in the state.

So this statistics actually support the points of view of most everyone else. If marijuana had nothing at all to do with traffic fatalities, you would expect the rate of traffic fatalities to go up proportional to the number of people using marijuana. So there are three possibilities. Marijuana use has less than doubled, marijuana use has doubled, marijuana use has more than doubled.

If marijuana use has less than doubled, then it means legalizing it hasn't increased popularity very much.
If marijuana use has doubled, it means that there is absolutely no correlation between marijuana use and traffic accidents.
If marijuana use has more than doubled, then it means there is either a negative correlation for marijuana use and traffic accidents OR the people who only started using it when it was legalized are more responsible with it, meaning they are probably not now living in the gutter.

And tent cities have been a thing since 2008, so that has nothing to do with the legalization of Marijuana.

The data is only till 2012 but showed a doubling of accidents positively caused by cannabis. Not every user has a drivers licence and there are prob lots of incidents prior to a fatality that are not shown.

In Australia the number of drug related traffic incidents is sky high that every cop car now has ability to test for drugs and have authority to do random checks.

[DesertWonderer2]

It is a destructive substance and must not be allowed to become any more accessible than it already is.

http://www.narconon.org/drug-informatio ... juana.html

https://luxury.rehabs.com/marijuana-reh ... marijuana/

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ ... /marijuana

http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/ ... fects.html

[harakim]

So you simply could not back up your claim that “cities” that legalized marijuana(it’s actually states) are completely falling apart. You deflect to prescription drug pain killer use, and also tell me I’m living in denial. Actually Spaced, it is you who simply can not accept facts and see reality.
Who said anything about marijuana use in the millennium? Are you for banning all bad things that are against the Gospel?
I think we had another brother with the same idea and plan, it didn’t work out for him at all, another fact.

Evil is evil and you support evil you run into problems, cannabis usage will go up, drug dependency will go up, crime and usage of harder drugs will go up. Cannabis will be more affordable and available, the same happening with pain killers, same monkey just different name.

These things are already happening. I never listed any references as it is blatantly obvious, hear is a few for you to smoke.

THE UNEXPECTED SIDE EFFECTS OF LEGALIZING WEED
http://www.newsweek.com/unexpected-side ... eed-339931
Other symptoms of Colorado’s pot culture include increased use among teens, resulting in educational problems in middle schools and high schools, a spike in “edibles”-related emergency room visits, consumption by children and pets resulting in illness and death and regulatory confusion surrounding public consumption and enforcement.

Colorado’s addiction to cannabis revenue may prove to be the most harmful implication of all. Towns such as De Beque, where cannabis is replacing coal and cattle as a means of income, imperil themselves by staking the future on a substance that is still illegal in most states and that half of Americans still regard as a social evil.

HomeUS News
Marijuana-related deaths, suspensions & problems spike in Colorado – report
https://www.rt.com/usa/316148-marijuana ... ies-study/

A new study of marijuana drug use in Colorado found increases in marijuana-related traffic deaths, hospital visits, school suspensions, lab explosions, and pet poisonings. The study was conducted by a federal government program.
The 166-page report released this month analyzed the effects of legalizing marijuana for medical and recreational use in Colorado spanning the time period from 2006 to the present. Along with the state of Washington, Colorado is considered as something of laboratory in which the effects of legalizing marijuana use can be studied.

The study showed that the number of drivers testing positive for marijuana increased 100 percent from 2007 to 2012, with marijuana-related fatalities doubling from 37 to 78. Traffic fatalities total around 500 a year in the state.

So this statistics actually support the points of view of most everyone else. If marijuana had nothing at all to do with traffic fatalities, you would expect the rate of traffic fatalities to go up proportional to the number of people using marijuana. So there are three possibilities. Marijuana use has less than doubled, marijuana use has doubled, marijuana use has more than doubled.

If marijuana use has less than doubled, then it means legalizing it hasn't increased popularity very much.
If marijuana use has doubled, it means that there is absolutely no correlation between marijuana use and traffic accidents.
If marijuana use has more than doubled, then it means there is either a negative correlation for marijuana use and traffic accidents OR the people who only started using it when it was legalized are more responsible with it, meaning they are probably not now living in the gutter.

And tent cities have been a thing since 2008, so that has nothing to do with the legalization of Marijuana.

The data is only till 2012 but showed a doubling of accidents positively caused by cannabis. Not every user has a drivers licence and there are prob lots of incidents prior to a fatality that are not shown.

In Australia the number of drug related traffic incidents is sky high that every cop car now has ability to test for drugs and have authority to do random checks.

You keep grouping opioids and marijuana together.

[Silver]

It is a destructive substance and must not be allowed to become any more accessible than it already is.

http://www.narconon.org/drug-informatio ... juana.html

https://luxury.rehabs.com/marijuana-reh ... marijuana/

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ ... /marijuana

http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/ ... fects.html

Can just one of you guys who are so opposed to marijuana please tell me a sensible plan which will prevent people from obtaining it. Your plan has to be successful. If by chance you want to use more government/police enforcement, I'm afraid we'll have to kick you off the island. We don't need to hear more lies about how the brutal so-called War on Drugs will really, really, truly, truly be successful if the government just spends an additional $100 million more in taxes on the fight.

For those who are just tuning in... I am not now, nor have I ever used illicit drugs or smoked a joint or other such recreational/addiction-related nonsense. I am generally opposed to people smoking dope. However, I am even more opposed to the laws and enforcement which (A) do no good, and, (B) focus on the wrong people.

[Spaced_Out]

Can just one of you guys who are so opposed to marijuana please tell me a sensible plan which will prevent people from obtaining it. Your plan has to be successful. If by chance you want to use more government/police enforcement, I'm afraid we'll have to kick you off the island. We don't need to hear more lies about how the brutal so-called War on Drugs will really, really, truly, truly be successful if the government just spends an additional $100 million more in taxes on the fight.

For those who are just tuning in... I am not now, nor have I ever used illicit drugs or smoked a joint or other such recreational/addiction-related nonsense. I am generally opposed to people smoking dope. However, I am even more opposed to the laws and enforcement which (A) do no good, and, (B) focus on the wrong people.

In Australia there is a big call for drug testing of people who get welfare - so if you fail your monthly drug test 60% less gov support. Since 45% of all US households get some form of Gov food stamps/welfare - think of all the money gov will save without having to do any policing, just a cheap monthly drug test.
Also In Australia lots of workplaces do drug testing and immediate dismissal if any drug found in your system.

There you go easy solution to drug use.... that will save gov many billions of dollars.... All people that die from drug overdose I will confiscate their organs and sell them on open markets to cover cost of dealing with drug overdose patients in the emergency wards.

There is always a solution - as always I have all the answers just ask and you shall receive...... Ok apologies I will save my sarcasm for the MMP thread.

[Silver]

Can just one of you guys who are so opposed to marijuana please tell me a sensible plan which will prevent people from obtaining it. Your plan has to be successful. If by chance you want to use more government/police enforcement, I'm afraid we'll have to kick you off the island. We don't need to hear more lies about how the brutal so-called War on Drugs will really, really, truly, truly be successful if the government just spends an additional $100 million more in taxes on the fight.

For those who are just tuning in... I am not now, nor have I ever used illicit drugs or smoked a joint or other such recreational/addiction-related nonsense. I am generally opposed to people smoking dope. However, I am even more opposed to the laws and enforcement which (A) do no good, and, (B) focus on the wrong people.

In Australia there is a big call for drug testing of people who get welfare - so if you fail your monthly drug test 60% less gov support. Since 45% of all US households get some form of Gov food stamps/welfare - think of all the money gov will save without having to do any policing, just a cheap monthly drug test.
Also In Australia lots of workplaces do drug testing and immediate dismissal if any drug found in your system.

There you go easy solution to drug use.... that will save gov many billions of dollars.... All people that die from drug overdose I will confiscate their organs and sell them on open markets to cover cost of dealing with drug overdose patients in the emergency wards.

There is always a solution - as always I have all the answers just ask and you shall receive...... Ok apologies I will save my sarcasm for the MMP thread.

Not a bad first attempt, but still too much government involvement for my 100% approval. Sarcasm appreciated and accepted. I just came here from the Mad Man Preaching (Nonsense) thread so I second your emotion.

[Spaced_Out]

Not a bad first attempt, but still too much government involvement for my 100% approval. Sarcasm appreciated and accepted. I just came here from the Mad Man Preaching (Nonsense) thread so I second your emotion.

Mr Silver that is the best I can do, the BoM teaches that people need just laws, the D&C there is no space without law..
Unfortunately people have degenerated too far to be able to govern themselves, and when a persons actions impact on anther then a law has to be enforced and just punishment given..
The BoM teaches the people got to a point where they could not be governed by a just law save it was to there entire destruction. Punishing offenders that commit crimes while intoxicated is a necessity - but prevention is much better than cure. So it is back to punishment by financial pain....!!! That is all I can give..

I am about to go full feral on the Mad Man Preaching (Nonsense) thread - will see if he responds to my latest round of pure doctrine, alas it is prob in vain as it is on par with flat earther's that live in a different reality, a twilight zone of their own making...

[Silver]

Not a bad first attempt, but still too much government involvement for my 100% approval. Sarcasm appreciated and accepted. I just came here from the Mad Man Preaching (Nonsense) thread so I second your emotion.

Mr Silver that is the best I can do, the BoM teaches that people need just laws, the D&C there is no space without law..
Unfortunately people have degenerated too far to be able to govern themselves, and when a persons actions impact on anther then a law has to be enforced and just punishment given..
The BoM teaches the people got to a point where they could not be governed by a just law save it was to there entire destruction. Punishing offenders that commit crimes while intoxicated is a necessity - but prevention is much better than cure. So it is back to punishment by financial pain....!!! That is all I can give..

I am about to go full feral on the Mad Man Preaching (Nonsense) thread - will see if he responds to my latest round of pure doctrine, alas it is prob in vain as it is on par with flat earther's that live in a different reality, a twilight zone of their own making...

I never said there couldn't be laws. But I prefer the "teach men correct principles and let them govern themselves" approach. Not only that, in the US anyway, the War on Drugs has been a disaster.

[Vision]

Along with the legalization of marijuana it would be nice to legalize the production of hemp. Hemp has so many beneficial uses it is simply wrong that American farmers can't grow hemp.

[Silver]

Along with the legalization of marijuana it would be nice to legalize the production of hemp. Hemp has so many beneficial uses it is simply wrong that American farmers can't grow hemp.

Thanks for mentioning that. That subject came up time and again when I was studying the issue a few years back. It does seem illogical to outlaw hemp. Laws, laws, laws.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

Anyone who spends time fighting against Marijuana, they are on the wrong side of the argument. And those who do are simply doing congress, the alcohol and Big Pharma bidding for them. But from this thread, seems like most folks buy into the BS propaganda. Big Pharma is selling wolf tickets and everybody just eats the shiZt up.

“My homie was takin' subs and he ain't wake up, the whole while these billionaires stay caked up paying out congress so we take their drugs. Murderers who will never face the judge. . . Had the plug from Big Pharma, Pharma, my drug dealer was a doctor, he said that he would heal me, but he only gave me problems … I think he trying to kill me. Tried to kill me for a dollar.”

Just like war, all the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. My heart goes out to all who are suffering from addiction. To hell with the beast. Big Pharma = "hearts of conspiring men in the last days". Considering big pharma has almost been the bane of my family's existence (thank-you BYU for this), I will never stop fighting this beast. Too many people buy into the propaganda, like Drug Free America (you see all the anti marijuana commercial where pets have dumbed down conversation with their high owner) happens to be funded by Big Pharma and the alcohol industries, go figure.

Food for thought by Dr. Mercola. . .

Read first post in this thread by Dr. Jones. . .
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 35&t=21317

Marijuana Research Supports Its Safety and Benefits
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... efits.aspx

The US is far behind many other countries in harnessing the healing power of marijuana. Israel is the marijuana research capital of the world, thanks to Dr. Raphael Mechoulam, who was the first to investigate the medicinal properties of marijuana way back in the 1960s and the first to isolate THC and CBD.

Israel is now using marijuana to treat cancer, epilepsy, Parkinson's disease, Tourette's syndrome, and many other conditions. As shown in the film, even residents of Israeli nursing homes are being treated with marijuana.

Medical Cannabis — A Vastly Underutilized Therapeutic Option?
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... ption.aspx

Top US Doctor Says Medical Marijuana May Help Some Conditions
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... juana.aspx

Cannabis May Help Rejuvenate the Aging Brain and Ward Off Dementia
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... entia.aspx

America’s Burgeoning Cannabis Industry and the Road to Public Acceptance
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... ustry.aspx

Can Medical Marijuana Fight the Opioid Epidemic?
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... elief.aspx

[Spaced_Out]

Not a bad first attempt, but still too much government involvement for my 100% approval. Sarcasm appreciated and accepted. I just came here from the Mad Man Preaching (Nonsense) thread so I second your emotion.

Mr Silver that is the best I can do, the BoM teaches that people need just laws, the D&C there is no space without law..
Unfortunately people have degenerated too far to be able to govern themselves, and when a persons actions impact on anther then a law has to be enforced and just punishment given..
The BoM teaches the people got to a point where they could not be governed by a just law save it was to there entire destruction. Punishing offenders that commit crimes while intoxicated is a necessity - but prevention is much better than cure. So it is back to punishment by financial pain....!!! That is all I can give..

I am about to go full feral on the Mad Man Preaching (Nonsense) thread - will see if he responds to my latest round of pure doctrine, alas it is prob in vain as it is on par with flat earther's that live in a different reality, a twilight zone of their own making...

I never said there couldn't be laws. But I prefer the "teach men correct principles and let them govern themselves" approach. Not only that, in the US anyway, the War on Drugs has been a disaster.

Don't take the war to the streets, take it to the welfare office, there need be no more laws, you can do what you like but if you give up your freedoms and become a welfare recipient relying on gov then you must pay the price of the loss of that freedom. If the drugs you take make you unable to earn a living then you have already given up your freedoms.
So everyone can be totally free and self reliant.
If you use drugs and end up in an emergency ward - you have to pay or get thrown out into the street to die - not gov responsibility.

You want great freedom then you have to take great responsibility - that is the crux of the matter everyone cries day and night for freedom but no one wants to take responsibility. The more freedom the more responsibility.
So make the people take responsibility and withhold all support from drug users - the dole is anyway evil - so get rid of both....

[Spaced_Out]

You guys are free to use your agency and freedom to choose to go destroy yourselves and go into captivity. Piece piece you will whittle away your freedom until you lose your agency.

Have you guys looked at what's going on Mexico?

That's the future of open drugs and no regulation of drugs. The only jobs are working in cocaine and marijauna fields. Milk in places costs more than it does here. People can't support themselves. Their infrastructure and government are run by cartels. Corruption everywhere, you pay bribes to get jobs. Nobody chooses what's right, but what's right for the dollar/peso.

If you keep choosing for open 'herb use' that's where this country will end up. Talk to Latin people who came from there. They'll tell you how it is and how it got so bad that even if you wanted to go out and change your life you couldn't because the infrastructure was all messed up. Imagine it taking days or weeks of pay to just buy milk or a chicken that lays eggs.

If you let marijuana be openly used recreationally it won't stop there. Next it will be pushed for cocaine, heroine, and meth. Are you naively going to think they wouldn't go right to the next thing? Look how fast recreational use was passed after the door was opened by medical use. That's how it will be for the other drugs too.

I've made dozens, if not hundreds of trips to Mexico for my work. Interior and border towns. You don't know what you're talking about.

Mexico is actually safer today than 30 years ago as a whole. However border towns had a bump in violence a few years ago, but I’ll go anytime! Chicago is a different story.......

Mexican Interior Minister Resigns Amid Soaring Murders; US Warns "Do Not Travel" To Mexico
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01- ... not-travel

Less than two weeks after Mexico recorded its deadliest year on record, the Interior Minister of Mexico has decided to call it quits amid the out of control violence and soaring homicides.
As Mexico’s political elite play musical chairs in the collapsing house of burritos, the United States has just urged its citizens not to visit five violence-plagued Mexican states, placing them on the same list as war-torn countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, and Syria

[Silver]

You guys are free to use your agency and freedom to choose to go destroy yourselves and go into captivity. Piece piece you will whittle away your freedom until you lose your agency.

Have you guys looked at what's going on Mexico?

That's the future of open drugs and no regulation of drugs. The only jobs are working in cocaine and marijauna fields. Milk in places costs more than it does here. People can't support themselves. Their infrastructure and government are run by cartels. Corruption everywhere, you pay bribes to get jobs. Nobody chooses what's right, but what's right for the dollar/peso.

If you keep choosing for open 'herb use' that's where this country will end up. Talk to Latin people who came from there. They'll tell you how it is and how it got so bad that even if you wanted to go out and change your life you couldn't because the infrastructure was all messed up. Imagine it taking days or weeks of pay to just buy milk or a chicken that lays eggs.

If you let marijuana be openly used recreationally it won't stop there. Next it will be pushed for cocaine, heroine, and meth. Are you naively going to think they wouldn't go right to the next thing? Look how fast recreational use was passed after the door was opened by medical use. That's how it will be for the other drugs too.

I've made dozens, if not hundreds of trips to Mexico for my work. Interior and border towns. You don't know what you're talking about.

Mexico is actually safer today than 30 years ago as a whole. However border towns had a bump in violence a few years ago, but I’ll go anytime! Chicago is a different story.......

Mexican Interior Minister Resigns Amid Soaring Murders; US Warns "Do Not Travel" To Mexico
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01- ... not-travel

Less than two weeks after Mexico recorded its deadliest year on record, the Interior Minister of Mexico has decided to call it quits amid the out of control violence and soaring homicides.
As Mexico’s political elite play musical chairs in the collapsing house of burritos, the United States has just urged its citizens not to visit five violence-plagued Mexican states, placing them on the same list as war-torn countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, and Syria

Yes, there is danger. Yes, it is drug-related. But why? Because US laws make trading in drugs profitable. Because Big Pharma has turned America into a bunch of hypochondriacs. Attack the root issue, not the peripheral stuff.