Urim and Thummim

[Im4all]

Does anyone know if the Urim and Thummim is to return again? Thank You

[inho]

I do not know.

What would be the purpose of the return?

Joseph Smith used U&T for the translation of BoM and reception of revelation. But he also used the seer stone. If I have understood correctly Moroni took the plates and the U&T after the 116-pages-incident. Later, the plates were returned but without the Urim and Tummim. It seems that later on his career as a prophet and seer, Joseph Smith had no need for any physical object to receive revelation.

So, I am not sure of any act that would require the use U&T that couldn't be done without them. Thus I see no reason for their return.

[inho]

Does anyone know if the Urim and Thummim is to return again? Thank You

I just read your comment in another thread (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29559#p825819) and watched the trailer linked in the OP of that thread. I assume you are not a Mormon. Are you aware of the Mormon beliefs with relation to the Urim and Thummim? Do you know that our founding prophet Joseph Smith used something he and others called Urim and Thummim to translate ancient plates? The translation is known as the Book of Mormon, which is scripture comparable to the Bible.

[Alaris]

Does anyone know if the Urim and Thummim is to return again? Thank You

The Sealed Portion will need to be translated, so it will likely be translated by the Urim and Thummim. As I understand church history, Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim for the lost 116 pages manuscript and then switched to his seer stone after. I'm guessing they are similar "technology," so it's possible that the choice seer to come may use a stone rather than the Urim and Thummim.

[mes5464]

We will each get our own urim and thummim when the earth is exalted. The earth itself will become a urim and thummim.

D&C 130
9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.

10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;

11 And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.

[Alaris]

We will each get our own urim and thummim when the earth is exalted. The earth itself we become a urim and thummim.

D&C 130
9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.

10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;

11 And a white stone is given to each of those who come into the celestial kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it. The new name is the key word.

That's super cool how the white stone becomes a urim and thummim. What was it before? Joseph Smith had a white stone, and I wonder if it wasn't his white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17

[Alaris]

Does anyone know if the Urim and Thummim is to return again? Thank You

I did not realize you may not be LDS, so here's a more thorough answer. We believe the Urim and Thummim was returned to the angel Moroni:

We have been taught since the days of the Prophet that the Urim and Thummim were returned with the plates to the angel. We have no record of the Prophet having the Urim and Thummim after the organization of the Church. ~ Joseph Fielding Smith, in his Doctrines of Salvation, 3:, p.225

Also, here is a quote from one of our modern apostles who indicates they may indeed return to us to reveal the remainder of the sealed plates--the unsealed portion of which is known as The Book of Mormon:

Those sealed plates constitute the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon, which Joseph Smith did not translate. Furthermore, they will remain sealed, literally as well as figuratively, until future generations shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations. [Ether 4:7] (Jeffrey R. Holland, Christ and the New Covenant: The Messianic Message of the Book of Mormon, p.25) ~ Elder Jeffrey R. Holland

I saw your youtube video in the other thread. Our Urim and Thummim consisted of two stones that were inserted into a bow (spectacles) that were fastened to a breastplate. Here is a description of what they looked like:

"two smooth, three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows, which were connected with each other...as old fashioned spectacles." ~ Lucy Mack Smith (Mother of Joseph Smith, Jr.)

Below is a recreation of what they may have looked like:

[inho]

The Mormon conception of Urim and Thummim is quite different than the traditional Bible-based understanding.

[Syn]

The bibles urim and thummim and the mormon's are the same. They are described as a breastplate and the urim and thummim. It was a tool to find answers to questions and hidden things - like translating unknown languages. It is very much the same. Here is an excerpt from lds.org - which is a great resource - outlining scriptures and the opinion of the church about the urim and thummim:

Urim and Thummim
Hebrew term that means “Lights and Perfections.” An instrument prepared of God to assist man in obtaining revelation from the Lord and in translating languages. See Ex. 28:30; Lev. 8:8; Num. 27:21; Deut. 33:8; 1 Sam. 28:6; Ezra 2:63; Neh. 7:65; JS—H 1:35.

Using a Urim and Thummim is the special prerogative of a seer, and it would seem reasonable that such instruments were used from the time of Adam. However, the earliest mention is in connection with the brother of Jared (Ether 3:21–28). Abraham used a Urim and Thummim (Abr. 3:1–4), as did Aaron and the priests of Israel, and also the prophets among the Nephites (Omni 1:20–21; Mosiah 8:13–19; 21:26–28; 28:11–20; Ether 4:1–7). There is more than one Urim and Thummim, but we are informed that Joseph Smith had the one used by the brother of Jared (Ether 3:22–28; D&C 10:1; 17:1). (See Seer.) A partial description is given in JS—H 1:35. Joseph Smith used it in translating the Book of Mormon and in obtaining other revelations.

This earth in its celestial condition will be a Urim and Thummim, and many within that kingdom will have an additional Urim and Thummim (D&C 130:6–11).