Enoch90:37-8

[dafty]

WHO IS THE WHITE BULL SPOKEN OF IN THIS SCRIPTURE, THAT REFERS TO THE LATTER DAYS?
"And I saw that a white bull was born, with large horns, and all the beasts of the field and birds of the air feared him and made petition to him continually. And I saw till all their kinds were transformed, and they all became white cattle. And the foremost among them was the buffalo, and that buffalo was a great animal, and had great black horns on its head. And the Lord of the sheep rejoiced over them, and over all the cattle"

[dafty]

Obviously, The Lord of the sheep is our Lord(Jesus, Jehovah). So who is the great animal, The feared white bull who apparently helps The Lord transform the cattle into white sheep?

[marc]

It sounds to me like he who has been given power enough to be feared, or at least regarded with respect, and so much so that he was sought after to be healed. That seems to be the pattern with someone with such power. People hate him or fear him. Some few respect him and seek to be healed by him.

I find it interesting that a distinction is made between sheep and beasts (cattle). Jesus Christ makes such a distinction to the people at Bountiful:

16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

I believe the distinction is made between the Lord's covenant people (sheep) and the remaining gentiles (beasts). But I also see the transformation of dumb beasts into sheep. Isaiah makes similar comparisons:

Isaiah 1:3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the @#$ his master’s crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider.

It's ironic because Jesus said that His sheep know His voice. Clearly not all the Lord's "covenant" people are His sheep.

[Alaris]

Obviously, The Lord of the sheep is our Lord(Jesus, Jehovah). So who is the great animal, The feared white bull who apparently helps The Lord transform the cattle into white sheep?

Well it has to be either Jesus Christ Himself or Joseph Smith, because the thought of another important end times character makes me feel all uncomfortable inside.

[dafty]

Obviously, The Lord of the sheep is our Lord(Jesus, Jehovah). So who is the great animal, The feared white bull who apparently helps The Lord transform the cattle into white sheep?

Well it has to be either Jesus Christ Himself or Joseph Smith, because the thought of another important end times character makes me feel all uncomfortable inside.

u had me going there for a sec

[inho]

Obviously, The Lord of the sheep is our Lord(Jesus, Jehovah). So who is the great animal, The feared white bull who apparently helps The Lord transform the cattle into white sheep?

Does it have to be a person?

[dafty]

Obviously, The Lord of the sheep is our Lord(Jesus, Jehovah). So who is the great animal, The feared white bull who apparently helps The Lord transform the cattle into white sheep?

Does it have to be a person?

Im usually quiet open to different interpretations, however in this instance since sheep are The Lords faithful and bull is most prominent among them I guess it has to be a person. Also, the symblism of a bull that connects him to 2 witnesses(Isaiah 51:20); Jacob(Israel) and Joseph(Ephraim) bull connection, I believe are very telling.
Still, what do you have in mind? A Nation? Church? or something else complately?

[BeNotDeceived]

[dafty]

[JohnnyL]

Ephraim and Manasseh (tribes)?

[gardener4life]

'...These two lieth in the streets like a wild bull...' may possibly correlate with this? What do you think?

(some symbolisms and scriptures are meant to match up with other scriptures.)

[gardener4life]

That particular scripture I'm not sure on yet. But anytime you aren't sure you want to correlate and look for other scriptures or other inspired resources by prophets or apostles to shed light on things. That's when you can be sure you're on the right track. But if you deviate and go to unknown sources you can mess yourself up. If another source is right it will add to but not conflict, but be parralel with things prophets and apostles have written.

[inho]

Does it have to be a person?

Im usually quiet open to different interpretations, however in this instance since sheep are The Lords faithful and bull is most prominent among them I guess it has to be a person. Also, the symblism of a bull that connects him to 2 witnesses(Isaiah 51:20); Jacob(Israel) and Joseph(Ephraim) bull connection, I believe are very telling.
Still, what do you have in mind? A Nation? Church? or something else complately?

My first thought was church. The whiteness (of the bull and then others) would be a representation of being a true believer (or something like that). The bull would be just a personification of that.

[dafty]

'...These two lieth in the streets like a wild bull...' may possibly correlate with this? What do you think?

(some symbolisms and scriptures are meant to match up with other scriptures.)

thats the Isaiah scripture I mentioned and yes, I believe they are connected.

[MMbelieve]

Obviously, The Lord of the sheep is our Lord(Jesus, Jehovah). So who is the great animal, The feared white bull who apparently helps The Lord transform the cattle into white sheep?

Perhaps it's not a person. I read somewhere recently that the white bull represents loyalty to God. Just putting this idea out there.

[MMbelieve]

'...These two lieth in the streets like a wild bull...' may possibly correlate with this? What do you think?

(some symbolisms and scriptures are meant to match up with other scriptures.)

thats the Isaiah scripture I mentioned and yes, I believe they are connected.

[gardener4life]

Obviously, The Lord of the sheep is our Lord(Jesus, Jehovah). So who is the great animal, The feared white bull who apparently helps The Lord transform the cattle into white sheep?

Perhaps it's not a person. I read somewhere recently that the white bull represents loyalty to God. Just putting this idea out there.

bulls are also symbols of the tribes of Israel. Think baptismal fonts...they have 12 bulls holding up the font by their backs. Thus, the bulls can mean 'a prince in Israel', such as a great priesthood patriarch. Hope that helps some.

[dafty]

Obviously, The Lord of the sheep is our Lord(Jesus, Jehovah). So who is the great animal, The feared white bull who apparently helps The Lord transform the cattle into white sheep?

Perhaps it's not a person. I read somewhere recently that the white bull represents loyalty to God. Just putting this idea out there.

bulls are also symbols of the tribes of Israel. Think baptismal fonts...they have 12 bulls holding up the font by their backs. Thus, the bulls can mean 'a prince in Israel', such as a great priesthood patriarch. Hope that helps some.

Now, this is a very interesting catch indeed. And who is the prince of Israel forever?

[dafty]

EZEKIEL 34
23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.

JOSEPH SMITH
 "the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339). 
PS. see also Ezekiel 37:25

[Hogmeister]

"The word of the Lord came unto us, saying, And thou Bethlehem, which lieth in the land of Judea, in thee shall be born a prince, which art not the least among the princes of Judea; for out of thee shall come the Messiah, who shall save my people Israel."

"And the angel said unto her, fear not Mary; for thou hast found favour with God. And behold, thou shalt conceive, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the son of the highest, and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David, and he shall reighn over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

[dafty]

"The word of the Lord came unto us, saying, And thou Bethlehem, which lieth in the land of Judea, in thee shall be born a prince, which art not the least among the princes of Judea; for out of thee shall come the Messiah, who shall save my people Israel."

"And the angel said unto her, fear not Mary; for thou hast found favour with God. And behold, thou shalt conceive, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the son of the highest, and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David, and he shall reighn over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Note, Save NOT Gather.
Also, if The Lord is The Prince of princes(Dan8:25) who are the other princes? (also the king of kings lord of lords etc)

[Alaris]

"The word of the Lord came unto us, saying, And thou Bethlehem, which lieth in the land of Judea, in thee shall be born a prince, which art not the least among the princes of Judea; for out of thee shall come the Messiah, who shall save my people Israel."

"And the angel said unto her, fear not Mary; for thou hast found favour with God. And behold, thou shalt conceive, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the son of the highest, and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David, and he shall reighn over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Note, Save NOT Gather.
Also, if The Lord is The Prince of princes(Dan8:25) who are the other princes? (also the king of kings lord of lords etc)

Well he is also called the hidden servant, so it is extremely interesting to see how he remains this hidden this late into the game.

[dafty]

"The word of the Lord came unto us, saying, And thou Bethlehem, which lieth in the land of Judea, in thee shall be born a prince, which art not the least among the princes of Judea; for out of thee shall come the Messiah, who shall save my people Israel."

"And the angel said unto her, fear not Mary; for thou hast found favour with God. And behold, thou shalt conceive, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the son of the highest, and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David, and he shall reighn over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Note, Save NOT Gather.
Also, if The Lord is The Prince of princes(Dan8:25) who are the other princes? (also the king of kings lord of lords etc)

Well he is also called the hidden servant, so it is extremely interesting to see how he remains this hidden this late into the game.

have u got anything particular in mind? as in a suggestion why things are panning out the way they are?

[Juliet]

So he helps turn the rest of the cattle white. He is a bull, strong, pure, but black horns. Do the black horns represent going into the evil to dismantle and destroy it?

Is this one of the two witnesses? The 2 witnesses will be resurrected, perhaps kicking off the resurrection of many, therefore the cattle turning white.

The Lakota tell how 2,000 years a divine female Spirit named White Buffalo Calf Woman came to present precious cultural and spiritual gifts. She taught that all life is related - mitakuye oyasin - and promised to return at the end of the cosmic era during a great time of planetary transformation.https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/et ... -hopi/faqs

One interesting thing is that Linda Newkirk refers to herself as white Buffalo Calf Woman.

[Alaris]

"The word of the Lord came unto us, saying, And thou Bethlehem, which lieth in the land of Judea, in thee shall be born a prince, which art not the least among the princes of Judea; for out of thee shall come the Messiah, who shall save my people Israel."

"And the angel said unto her, fear not Mary; for thou hast found favour with God. And behold, thou shalt conceive, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the son of the highest, and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David, and he shall reighn over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Note, Save NOT Gather.
Also, if The Lord is The Prince of princes(Dan8:25) who are the other princes? (also the king of kings lord of lords etc)

Well he is also called the hidden servant, so it is extremely interesting to see how he remains this hidden this late into the game.

have u got anything particular in mind? as in a suggestion why things are panning out the way they are?

Well the Book of Enoch is SUPER interesting in that he is shown the 7 archangels whose names are revealed to Enoch and whose names he records along with their functions. Then he goes on to write A LOT more about the Elect One - specifically says he has the name revealed and withholds the name. He then calls him "The Concealed One" and many of Enoch's prophecies closely align with Isaiah's. The hidden aspect of this person goes way, way back. This isn't just a fact that he's hidden in his day (or during the latter-days during his mortal probation period,) but his hidden aspect goes way back to Enoch's day.

I have played with the idea that the seven archangels are "The Holy Ghost." I've played with the idea that we all are the Holy Ghost - every one who has joined Israel or at the very least every member of Israel who has progressed to a level of administration. However, the fact that the identity of the Holy Ghost is hidden seems ... rather ... coincidental. If the temporal Messiah who gathers Israel performs an important, yet lesser, work of salvation then wouldn't that make sense? I still think this person would be subservient to the archangels. After all Enoch labels the archangels the "Holy Ones" and then names the Elect One "like the Holy Ones" which is a nice parallel to Abraham 3.

Speaking of Abraham 3, the choosing of Michael could be broken down to the choosing of Michael and the Davidic Servant. The first character is "Like unto God" and the second is "Like Unto the Son of Man." So, Father, Son, Father, Son is the pattern. Elohim, Jesus, Adam, Holy Ghost. Elohim and Adam are the Fathers who govern the Sons. Jesus as the Spiritual Messiah and Elohim and the Spiritual Father with Adam as the Temporal Father and the Davidic Servant (Holy Ghost) as the Temporal Savior. That rhymes rather nicely.

Jesus Christ could have laid things out so that His ministry wasn't hidden from the masses - but if it were not hidden he never would have been crucified.

Likewise the ministry of the Davidic Servant must be largely hidden from the world so that his trial would be properly trying. His ascension would be nearly as mysterious to the world as Jesus Christ's. So many LDS think that it's going to be easy as the Brethren will just welcome him in--which certainly could happen. Yet even if that happened Christianity at large will probably think he's the Antichrist which is hilarious!

Why is it hilarious?

• The Jews reject the Christian Messiah while the Christians (duh) accept Him
• The Christians reject the Jewish (Israel) Messiah while the Jews accept him.

I appreciate Spaced_Out's recent post that seemed to admit that the Joseph F Smith quote about the OMAS indicated that it couldn't be Bishop Partridge; however, it's clear that those who are closed off to the idea largely won't even consider the idea of a temporal messiah - or even a seer on the level of or near the level of Joseph Smith / Moses / Enoch etc. exactly as the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ never gave space to consider Him. Like the brass serpent, if they only looked they would have seen Him for who He was.

Likewise, this pattern is already repeating and the Davidic Servant is not even public yet! Like I said ... hilarious.

Let's be clear I'm not definitively saying the Holy Ghost is the Davidic Servant. However I'm certainly not not saying that!

But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

If the above quote is true, when else would the Holy Ghost take upon himself a body since it's clear here that Jospeh Smith said he's waiting to take to himself a body???