Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

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Love
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Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

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Isaiah Chapter 28
Woe to the drunkards of Ephraim!--Revelation comes line upon line and precept upon precept--Christ, the sure foundation, is promised.

1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:
4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.
5 In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.
7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

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Love
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Love »

So I keep seeing all sorts of posts about the strong and mighty one. This guy is clearly in scripture so why is it so controversial? He either is real or not. I'm confused about the official stance people are taking, when he is talked about in multiple scriptures.

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oneClimbs
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

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Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 8:14 am So I keep seeing all sorts of posts about the strong and mighty one. This guy is clearly in scripture so why is it so controversial? He either is real or not. I'm confused about the official stance people are taking, when he is talked about in multiple scriptures.
I don't think that the topic is controversial but people's individual claims and options about it. People make a lot of assumptions and there are those out there who think they know who this person is and I've met one individual who thinks that HE is that one mighty and strong. An interesting Navajo man, but I don't buy his claims.

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LdsMarco
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by LdsMarco »

Those who claim to be the One Mighty and Strong is clearly NOT the one. There are so many individuals who try to take upon themselves that title but let me begin to say that if this person is an actual man, and is alive, he would keep it sacred or he doesn't even know it yet. I personally feel it's the Lord but that is total speculation. The only reason why there's so many rumors flowing around is because nobody truly knows who this OMAS is

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Alaris
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Alaris »

Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 8:11 am Isaiah Chapter 28
Woe to the drunkards of Ephraim!--Revelation comes line upon line and precept upon precept--Christ, the sure foundation, is promised.

1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
2 Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.
3 The crown of pride, the drunkards of Ephraim, shall be trodden under feet:
4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.
5 In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.
7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
This scripture means a great deal to me personally as it perfectly illustrates to me exactly what is happening in the church where so many cannot abide the thought of an unknown future, powerful prophet. Why? Well it says why right there in Isaiah 28. Isaiah 28 prophesies why so many reject, bend, twist, and break the prophecies to fit their own comfort zone. Drunken Pride.

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LdsMarco
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

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What's interesting here is that it is the Ephramites that are being chastened. Could it be, whomever the OMAS is, is not an Ephramite? Who knows....
but I've felt the impression that some people are going to think Elder Oaks might be confused as an OMAS, that is, if he sticks around to become the President of the Church. The OMAS is straight forward... Elder Oaks is known to be that way. And to add a little more on this - I believe many members will leave the church if he becomes President.

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Alaris
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

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LdsMarco wrote: December 13th, 2017, 11:19 am What's interesting here is that it is the Ephramites that are being chastened. Could it be, whomever the OMAS is, is not an Ephramite? Who knows....
but I've felt the impression that some people are going to think Elder Oaks might be confused as an OMAS, that is, if he sticks around to become the President of the Church. The OMAS is straight forward... Elder Oaks is known to be that way. And to add a little more on this - I believe many members will leave the church if he becomes President.
I believe D&C 113:4 is literal. This man will have both bloodlines and birthrights from the northern kingdom and Southern. This makes perfect sense as his mantle is to gather Israel and unite the tribes that were divided before they were lost.

Why do some peeps have a problem with Elder Oaks?

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LdsMarco
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

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alaris wrote: December 13th, 2017, 11:24 am Why do some peeps have a problem with Elder Oaks?
One example is his last conf talk. There are a huge amount of LGBT & members of the church who were upset over the proclamation talk. I personally loved it because he was blunt about it

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Alaris
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Alaris »

LdsMarco wrote: December 13th, 2017, 11:31 am
alaris wrote: December 13th, 2017, 11:24 am Why do some peeps have a problem with Elder Oaks?
One example is his last conf talk. There are a huge amount of LGBT & members of the church who were upset over the proclamation talk. I personally loved it because he was blunt about it
Ah well that's base level wheat and tare sifting. :)

Lizzy60
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Lizzy60 »

A bit of a threadjack here, but I believe this illustrates why the Church will need to be cleansed ------ on another LDS (liberal-leaning) blog, a commenter stated that a married gay couple is a better example for their children than an unmarried hetero couple. Their point was that the teenage child of the gay married couple can't be baptized until age 18, and only after denouncing the parents' marriage, but that a teenager from the unmarried couple's family can be baptized if the parents give their permission. They called the leadership hypocritical for this position.

It totally gobsmacks me when a supposed member of the church defends gay marriage. It appears to me that they have lost their moral compass.

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Love
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Love »

alaris wrote: December 13th, 2017, 11:33 am
LdsMarco wrote: December 13th, 2017, 11:31 am
alaris wrote: December 13th, 2017, 11:24 am Why do some peeps have a problem with Elder Oaks?
One example is his last conf talk. There are a huge amount of LGBT & members of the church who were upset over the proclamation talk. I personally loved it because he was blunt about it
Ah well that's base level wheat and tare sifting. :)
I think the sifting is the same as the Parable of the Ten Virgins.

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Alaris
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Alaris »

Lizzy60 wrote: December 13th, 2017, 11:39 am A bit of a threadjack here, but I believe this illustrates why the Church will need to be cleansed ------ on another LDS (liberal-leaning) blog, a commenter stated that a married gay couple is a better example for their children than an unmarried hetero couple. Their point was that the teenage child of the gay married couple can't be baptized until age 18, and only after denouncing the parents' marriage, but that a teenager from the unmarried couple's family can be baptized if the parents give their permission. They called the leadership hypocritical for this position.

It totally gobsmacks me when a supposed member of the church defends gay marriage. It appears to me that they have lost their moral compass.
Right? I mean it's so fundamental! Have they actually read the scriptures??

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Love
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Love »

After reading in the Slc Tribune today about complaints of The Church again. I really think the Church has entered a age of persecution that will rival the early pioneer saints. The wheat and 5 virgins will have to be the most faithful.



We will need a Strong Leadership to Steady the Ark.

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Love
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Love »

LDS Anarchist wrote: December 13th, 2017, 3:13 pm
Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 8:11 am Isaiah Chapter 28
It's strange you post this now. Just yesterday I felt like reading Isaiah 28, but wasn't able to get to it. Maybe today I'll take some time and read it again.
I am scared by Isaiah 28 frankly

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inho
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by inho »

Just for the reference, here is link to the Improvement Era reprint of the 1905 First Presidency statement on "One Mighty and Strong":
https://archive.org/stream/improvemente ... 3/mode/2up
I give link to the Improvement Era, since there is the full statement. Most modern manuals (e.g. D&C Institute manual) don't usually say much (if anything) about the second suggested explanation in the statement (i.e. future Bishop of the Church).

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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by gardener4life »

LdsMarco wrote: December 13th, 2017, 11:19 am What's interesting here is that it is the Ephramites that are being chastened. Could it be, whomever the OMAS is, is not an Ephramite? Who knows....
but I've felt the impression that some people are going to think Elder Oaks might be confused as an OMAS, that is, if he sticks around to become the President of the Church. The OMAS is straight forward... Elder Oaks is known to be that way. And to add a little more on this - I believe many members will leave the church if he becomes President.
A lot of interesting talk here. I thought I would reply on this one but the whole entire post and its (all) comments were interesting.

Basically the reason you all might thinking this idea is controversial is that you guys are talking about something that there isn't a lot of sources for that have been backed up by clear identification. That doesn't make it wrong but just harder to nail down. That's why there's a feeling like, is this real? When you study a gospel topic, you typically can easily find several sources and a few conference talks. But in this case you don't have that. So you kind of have to be careful.

Also I appreciate that a lot of you are trying to do good keep it up.

Below I was thinking this;

If members leave its because they don't have testimonies. Plain and simple. Also people rebel against real authority because they are seeking what the world wants, and the real leaders follow Christ driven strength that takes exercising faith to understand. So it is possible some members will leave. But some of that also will be from the hardship of the times. A reference to scripture comes to mind though....in the Old Testament there's a chapter that states that the Israelites that stayed in Egypt without following Moses most of them died of a plague afterwards (the reference on this is clear.) When you have a leader that isn't apologetic and exercising courage, people will get offended. They will also not understand because of them not having exercised faith, they won't see that its a time that requires strength to live when they've been babying themselves too much and weakening their strength by not doing what they are supposed to.

Nephi's brothers rebelled because they hated him. Why did they hate him? They were wicked. Nephi had to be bold because there wasn't any other choice. Why was that the case? Because there were a lot of victims. He was a visionary that was weighing all of his millions of posterity against Laman and Lemuel and all of their victims. The Spirit helped him understand what was at stake. Most people aren't taking fully into account what's at stake. What is at stake?? (All of your future posterity dwindling in unbelief compared to a few people around you trying to lead you astray.) People don't fully think about this and this is why they get led into false security, thinking to not be bold. Sometimes you have to be when the potential of victims is high. (I hope more people can think about it this way. Nephi was really inspired. He was amazing. He wasn't judgmental of mean to his brethren however, how they claimed in trying villainize him. Why do I say it like that? Because people today are doing that to righteous members of their families when that person is righteous and they are wicked. But the potential of # of victims is high by those leading other astray.)

**If you focus on the love of Christ and how wonderful he is, and what you feel in the scriptures how can you be led away? Keep seeking this daily. It will help in dealing with these future challenges.**

I would not count on future leaders in the church always meeting the pattern of being successful according to the world however. I think doing so may be dangerous. He may take some humble people of low birth that are most similar to the Savior. And the Savior was born in a manger, and had '...the Son of Man hath no place to lay his head....'

Lets escalate our faith and do some good.

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Love
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Love »

LDS Anarchist wrote: December 13th, 2017, 3:28 pm
Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 3:21 pm I am scared by Isaiah 28 frankly
Why?
In my stake confrence the biggest problem is people leaving the church. With all the natural disasters fires and such the scriptures are now so real. We have to go through a lot of stuff before the deliverer saves us. My home was hit by a tornado last year. The rightous are not spared heart aches.

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Love
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by Love »

LDS Anarchist wrote: December 13th, 2017, 5:23 pm
Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 4:21 pm
LDS Anarchist wrote: December 13th, 2017, 3:28 pm
Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 3:21 pm I am scared by Isaiah 28 frankly
Why?
In my stake confrence the biggest problem is people leaving the church. With all the natural disasters fires and such the scriptures are now so real. We have to go through a lot of stuff before the deliverer saves us. My home was hit by a tornado last year. The rightous are not spared heart aches.
I'm very sorry to hear about your home. I'm not sure if it is any comfort, but I just finished reading Isaiah 28 and it seems apparent to me that no part of this prophecy has come to pass, as yet. So, it's still future to us.
I think this part of Isaiah 28 is happening and will only increase

1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim,

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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by shadow »

The mighty and strong one today is none other than President Monson. He is authorized and holds the keys to set things in order.

gardener4life
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by gardener4life »

Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 4:21 pm
LDS Anarchist wrote: December 13th, 2017, 3:28 pm
Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 3:21 pm I am scared by Isaiah 28 frankly
Why?
In my stake confrence the biggest problem is people leaving the church. With all the natural disasters fires and such the scriptures are now so real. We have to go through a lot of stuff before the deliverer saves us. My home was hit by a tornado last year. The rightous are not spared heart aches.
It's true the righteous are not spared heartache. However I would point out some scriptures for comfort.

Isaiah 54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

Also the story of Job, he was given double the number of children he'd lost. He was given material and spiritual blessings at the end. (He just had to first accept the idea our goal isn't to have our permanent house in the Telestial Kingdom.)

Also, in the Book of Mormon some interesting pattern is seen. Some small disasters happened to move the righteous away from an area because a bigger much worse disaster would have hit them from which they couldn't survive, if they hadn't been moved by the smaller disaster. I think this is what's going on for some of the people that got hit by the hurricanes in Florida, Texas, and the areas hit by firestorms in California right now.

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled" (Matthew 5:6) (I was thinking of the meaning of being filled. Being filled doesn't mean that we won't get hungry. It means a state of perfect happiness and love someday where what we're given if we endure to the end is so wonderful we'd even beg to go through with what we had to go go through in order to get it if we knew what was at stake. A perfect feeling of completeness and feeling like, there's nothing lacking, that we're being taken care of, and that Heavenly Father blessed us with all that we prayed for.)

This I know is absolutely true.

But I understand the heartache of losing your home. It's gut wrenching, but trust that Jesus will reach out to you as you meet him partway.

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lemuel
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by lemuel »

Here's why it's the topic of OMNS is conrtoversial:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Mighty_and_Strong

about 40 or so people have claimed the title.

But maybe it's an office that gets passed down, like Dread Pirate Roberts.

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lemuel
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

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LDS Anarchist wrote: December 13th, 2017, 7:37 pm
Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 5:54 pm I think this part of Isaiah 28 is happening and will only increase

1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim,
Are you applying that to the Gentiles or to the saints? 'Cause the saints don't even drink alcohol. I see no drunkards anywhere.
Isaiah may have had a penchant for irony.

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marc
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by marc »

Although anciently, Ephraim was drunken with wine being proud and vain in their condition of "plenty", let us not be myopic in our view that because modern Ephraim does not drink wine (at least not openly), that modern Ephraim will not suffer the same fate because of its pride and vain abundance while the poor and needy remain neglected. It is the barren and lofty branches of the olive tree in Jacob 5 that bring about this curse and not the few branches in the end that remain, producing "good" fruit, being "equal" and "no more corrupted" being "one body." After all, if the LDS church is the Lord's covenant people, then it is the Lord's covenant people who will suffer His covenant curse (singular woe, verse 1).
4 And the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be a fading flower, and as the hasty fruit before the summer; which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand he eateth it up.

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oneClimbs
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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by oneClimbs »

LDS Anarchist wrote: December 13th, 2017, 7:37 pm
Love wrote: December 13th, 2017, 5:54 pm I think this part of Isaiah 28 is happening and will only increase

1 Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim,
Are you applying that to the Gentiles or to the saints? 'Cause the saints don't even drink alcohol. I see no drunkards anywhere.
Perhaps it isn't just alcohol. I read an interesting analysis of the Book of Revelation where the whore who sits upon many waters and causes the kings of the earth to drink the wine of her fornication could be talking about the banking system and debt. Debt being equated with wine and the drunkiness the willingness to amass debt to obtain pleasure and comfort.

Isaiah 29:9 says "they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink."

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Re: Why is the topic Strong and Mighty one so controversial if Isaiah?

Post by gardener4life »

lemuel wrote: December 13th, 2017, 9:19 pm Here's why it's the topic of OMNS is conrtoversial:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Mighty_and_Strong

about 40 or so people have claimed the title.

But maybe it's an office that gets passed down, like Dread Pirate Roberts.
I haven't seen any LDS current apostolic or conference sources of a mighty and strong one. Is there any? A one or two word verse in Isaiah is hard to stretch from.

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