Gileadi on Elias

[Alaris]

I think he meant your blog post on the topic rather than your blog in general.

[dafty]

sorry to break it to you, hes been saying that, for long time now, ...way before I found ur blog

Dang it! Hmm...I started my blog in 2007...has he been saying that prior to 2007?

PS. on a different subject LDSA...What was that recent rant against Silver, I believe, on about? Ur awful uptight for an anarchist!!! come on loosen up and stop cursing people xxx lets have some sensible chat bout obviously soon 'oit of the box' Davidic Servant, shall we? xxx

Who is Silver?
yeah he has been, sorry mate...but then again we havevyet another witness, so obviously theres something to it
Silver? less precious than gold...and in my humble opinion, less precious than bronze - would love me sone Subaru brz with bronze alloy wheels

[Alaris]

I think he meant your blog post on the topic rather than your blog in general.

I stand corrected.

[dafty]

I think he meant your blog post on the topic rather than your blog in general.

I stand corrected.

?
u were right...

[dafty]

Gileadi started, lets say, officially in the 90's ....years before any of us knew Isaiah's mesage ...

[mmm..cheese]

So who is the hidden servant?

The Elect One...who is also, interestingly, called-The Concealed One in the book of Enoch.

Where is this?

[dafty]

So who is the hidden servant?

The Elect One...who is also, interestingly, called-The Concealed One in the book of Enoch.

Where is this?

Enoch Chapter 48

Enoch 48:1 In that place I beheld a fountain of righteousness, which never failed, encircled by many springs of wisdom. Of these all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy.

Enoch 48:2 In that hour was this Son of man invoked before the Lord of spirits, and his name in the presence of the Ancient of days.

Enoch 48:3 Before the sun and the signs were created, before the stars of heaven were formed, his name was invoked in the presence of the Lord of spirits. A support shall he be for the righteous and the holy to lean upon, without falling; and he shall be the light of nations.

Enoch 48:4 He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits.

Enoch 48:5 Therefore the Elect and the Concealed One existed in his presence, before the world was created, and for ever.

Enoch 48:6 In his presence he existed, and has revealed to the saints and to the righteous the wisdom of the Lord of spirits; for he has preserved the lot of the righteous, because they have hated and rejected this world of iniquity, and have detested all its works and ways, in the name of the Lord of spirits.

Enoch 48:7 For in his name shall they be preserved; and his will shall be their life. In those days shall the kings of the earth and the mighty men, who have gained the world by their achievements, become humble in countenance.

Enoch 48:8 For in the day of their anxiety and trouble their souls shall not be saved; and they shall be in subjection to those whom I have chosen.

Enoch 48:9 I will cast them like hay into the fire, and like lead into the water. Thus shall they burn in the presence of the righteous, and sink in the presence of the holy; nor shall a tenth part of them be found.

Enoch 48:10 But in the day of their trouble, the world shall obtain tranquillity.

Enoch 48:11 In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and His messiah. The name of the Lord of spirits shall be blessed.

With clear references to Isaiah x

[mmm..cheese]

So who is the hidden servant?

The Elect One...who is also, interestingly, called-The Concealed One in the book of Enoch.

Where is this?

Enoch Chapter 48

Enoch 48:1 In that place I beheld a fountain of righteousness, which never failed, encircled by many springs of wisdom. Of these all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy.

Enoch 48:2 In that hour was this Son of man invoked before the Lord of spirits, and his name in the presence of the Ancient of days.

Enoch 48:3 Before the sun and the signs were created, before the stars of heaven were formed, his name was invoked in the presence of the Lord of spirits. A support shall he be for the righteous and the holy to lean upon, without falling; and he shall be the light of nations.

Enoch 48:4 He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits.

Enoch 48:5 Therefore the Elect and the Concealed One existed in his presence, before the world was created, and for ever.

Enoch 48:6 In his presence he existed, and has revealed to the saints and to the righteous the wisdom of the Lord of spirits; for he has preserved the lot of the righteous, because they have hated and rejected this world of iniquity, and have detested all its works and ways, in the name of the Lord of spirits.

Enoch 48:7 For in his name shall they be preserved; and his will shall be their life. In those days shall the kings of the earth and the mighty men, who have gained the world by their achievements, become humble in countenance.

Enoch 48:8 For in the day of their anxiety and trouble their souls shall not be saved; and they shall be in subjection to those whom I have chosen.

Enoch 48:9 I will cast them like hay into the fire, and like lead into the water. Thus shall they burn in the presence of the righteous, and sink in the presence of the holy; nor shall a tenth part of them be found.

Enoch 48:10 But in the day of their trouble, the world shall obtain tranquillity.

Enoch 48:11 In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and His messiah. The name of the Lord of spirits shall be blessed.

With clear references to Isaiah x

One of the things that is interesting about the Book of Enoch is that it basically speaks plainly about the Messiah. It may not be canon, but it definitely is historical and helpful to understand what was believed in the past.

I would think from what I am reading that those verses are messianic and the servant is Jesus Christ. What is the evidence to suggest that this is a different servant?

[dafty]

The Elect One...who is also, interestingly, called-The Concealed One in the book of Enoch.

Where is this?

Enoch Chapter 48

Enoch 48:1 In that place I beheld a fountain of righteousness, which never failed, encircled by many springs of wisdom. Of these all the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy.

Enoch 48:2 In that hour was this Son of man invoked before the Lord of spirits, and his name in the presence of the Ancient of days.

Enoch 48:3 Before the sun and the signs were created, before the stars of heaven were formed, his name was invoked in the presence of the Lord of spirits. A support shall he be for the righteous and the holy to lean upon, without falling; and he shall be the light of nations.

Enoch 48:4 He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits.

Enoch 48:5 Therefore the Elect and the Concealed One existed in his presence, before the world was created, and for ever.

Enoch 48:6 In his presence he existed, and has revealed to the saints and to the righteous the wisdom of the Lord of spirits; for he has preserved the lot of the righteous, because they have hated and rejected this world of iniquity, and have detested all its works and ways, in the name of the Lord of spirits.

Enoch 48:7 For in his name shall they be preserved; and his will shall be their life. In those days shall the kings of the earth and the mighty men, who have gained the world by their achievements, become humble in countenance.

Enoch 48:8 For in the day of their anxiety and trouble their souls shall not be saved; and they shall be in subjection to those whom I have chosen.

Enoch 48:9 I will cast them like hay into the fire, and like lead into the water. Thus shall they burn in the presence of the righteous, and sink in the presence of the holy; nor shall a tenth part of them be found.

Enoch 48:10 But in the day of their trouble, the world shall obtain tranquillity.

Enoch 48:11 In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and His messiah. The name of the Lord of spirits shall be blessed.

With clear references to Isaiah x

One of the things that is interesting about the Book of Enoch is that it basically speaks plainly about the Messiah. It may not be canon, but it definitely is historical and helpful to understand what was believed in the past.

I would think from what I am reading that those verses are messianic and the servant is Jesus Christ. What is the evidence to suggest that this is a different servant?

No evidence my friend, you may well be right. x

[Alaris]

Lots of evidence and overlay of the Elect One and prophecies in Isaiah including the verses in chapter 11 explained in D&C 113 which is not Jesus or Joseph Smith. I explore here in this article:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... t.html?m=1

This one as well:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html


... .and this one

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html

[mmm..cheese]

Lots of evidence and overlay of the Elect One and prophecies in Isaiah including the verses in chapter 11 explained in D&C 113 which is not Jesus or Joseph Smith. I explore here in this article:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... t.html?m=1

This one as well:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html


... .and this one

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html

I have read some of Gileadi's stuff and I feel many assumptions are made that seem to throw down the whole idea if you just bring up the fact, "What if assumption X is wrong." I was beginning to read the post and I notice this statement:

"however an understanding of MMP is essential to understanding the Elect One, his identity, why his identity is hidden, why his identity is unveiled when it is unveiled, and the answers to all those questions cast a brilliant light..."

So, MMP is essential to interpreting the idea of the Davidic servant? I am just trying to understanding what is being said in the assumptions and the amount of evidence being used to justify the conclusion. I go wherever the evidence leads... while of course standing with the prophets of the Church.

[simpleton]

Lots of evidence and overlay of the Elect One and prophecies in Isaiah including the verses in chapter 11 explained in D&C 113 which is not Jesus or Joseph Smith. I explore here in this article:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... t.html?m=1

This one as well:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html


... .and this one

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html

I have read some of Gileadi's stuff and I feel many assumptions are made that seem to throw down the whole idea if you just bring up the fact, "What if assumption X is wrong." I was beginning to read the post and I notice this statement:

"however an understanding of MMP is essential to understanding the Elect One, his identity, why his identity is hidden, why his identity is unveiled when it is unveiled, and the answers to all those questions cast a brilliant light..."
I actually disagree with the above also, I do not think it is essential at all to understand "Multiple Mortal Probations" as being promoted, to understand the who's, the what's, the whys and the when's. But then also my mind has not wrapped around MMP as I think that even "IF" MMP is true, (which I highly doubt) it would be a dis-service to have those notions in our head in this probation. I think it is a huge detour, a sidetrack to the plan of salvation at this point and time, and that even giving it the possibility that it might be true.

So, MMP is essential to interpreting the idea of the Davidic servant? I am just trying to understanding what is being said in the assumptions and the amount of evidence being used to justify the conclusion. I go wherever the evidence leads... while of course standing with the prophets of the Church.

[mmm..cheese]

Lots of evidence and overlay of the Elect One and prophecies in Isaiah including the verses in chapter 11 explained in D&C 113 which is not Jesus or Joseph Smith. I explore here in this article:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... t.html?m=1

This one as well:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html


... .and this one

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html

I have read some of Gileadi's stuff and I feel many assumptions are made that seem to throw down the whole idea if you just bring up the fact, "What if assumption X is wrong." I was beginning to read the post and I notice this statement:

"however an understanding of MMP is essential to understanding the Elect One, his identity, why his identity is hidden, why his identity is unveiled when it is unveiled, and the answers to all those questions cast a brilliant light..."
I actually disagree with the above also, I do not think it is essential at all to understand "Multiple Mortal Probations" as being promoted, to understand the who's, the what's, the whys and the when's. But then also my mind has not wrapped around MMP as I think that even "IF" MMP is true, (which I highly doubt) it would be a dis-service to have those notions in our head in this probation. I think it is a huge detour, a sidetrack to the plan of salvation at this point and time, and that even giving it the possibility that it might be true.

So, MMP is essential to interpreting the idea of the Davidic servant? I am just trying to understanding what is being said in the assumptions and the amount of evidence being used to justify the conclusion. I go wherever the evidence leads... while of course standing with the prophets of the Church.

I am more curious about the Davidic servant part.

It was just curious because I had before reading the part from the Book of Enoch and think the case can be made that it is speaking about Jesus Christ (most things in Scripture talk about Christ) and then I was directed to read a blog, but then the first thing I read about the evidence for the idea that the Davidic servant is not Jesus Christ (or the verses speaking about it could be representative of the Church as a whole, or various prophets/individuals in different instances vs. one particular individual) has an "essential" prerequisite belief about MMP. It seems like the request is you need to go from point A > B > C. There seem to be many beliefs involved with this idea if that is the case. We should have lots of beliefs that might be considered spurious?

[simpleton]

Lots of evidence and overlay of the Elect One and prophecies in Isaiah including the verses in chapter 11 explained in D&C 113 which is not Jesus or Joseph Smith. I explore here in this article:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/ ... t.html?m=1

This one as well:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html


... .and this one

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... ant_7.html

I have read some of Gileadi's stuff and I feel many assumptions are made that seem to throw down the whole idea if you just bring up the fact, "What if assumption X is wrong." I was beginning to read the post and I notice this statement:

"however an understanding of MMP is essential to understanding the Elect One, his identity, why his identity is hidden, why his identity is unveiled when it is unveiled, and the answers to all those questions cast a brilliant light..."
I actually disagree with the above also, I do not think it is essential at all to understand "Multiple Mortal Probations" as being promoted, to understand the who's, the what's, the whys and the when's. But then also my mind has not wrapped around MMP as I think that even "IF" MMP is true, (which I highly doubt) it would be a dis-service to have those notions in our head in this probation. I think it is a huge detour, a sidetrack to the plan of salvation at this point and time, and that even giving it the possibility that it might be true.

So, MMP is essential to interpreting the idea of the Davidic servant? I am just trying to understanding what is being said in the assumptions and the amount of evidence being used to justify the conclusion. I go wherever the evidence leads... while of course standing with the prophets of the Church.

I am more curious about the Davidic servant part.

It was just curious because I had before reading the part from the Book of Enoch and think the case can be made that it is speaking about Jesus Christ (most things in Scripture talk about Christ) and then I was directed to read a blog, but then the first thing I read about the evidence for the idea that the Davidic servant is not Jesus Christ (or the verses speaking about it could be representative of the Church as a whole, or various prophets/individuals in different instances vs. one particular individual) has an "essential" prerequisite belief about MMP. It seems like the request is you need to go from point A > B > C. There seem to be many beliefs involved with this idea if that is the case. We should have lots of beliefs that might be considered spurious?

We tend to be very "jealous" for Christ, maybe because of not taking into very much consideration that Christ also employs servants to do very great works for Him. I absolutely believe in this "Servant" "Davidical" servant, or whatever we want to call Him. But this Servant is not Christ, but this Servant prepares the way for Christ just like unto John the Baptist. Whereas John prepared the way for Christ's temporal arrival, this Servant prepares the way for Christ's Marvelous Second Coming. This Servant I believe is the "Elias" , which, John had the spirit of. But what this Servant does, far exceeds anything Moses or any other "servant" has done in the past. What He does is so great, is the reason why I believe that we confuse His mission with Christs. He is the " Forerunner of Christ that prepares a people ( lest there be no flesh even left to receive Christ) and this earth to receive Him.
That is my belief....

[mmm..cheese]

I have read some of Gileadi's stuff and I feel many assumptions are made that seem to throw down the whole idea if you just bring up the fact, "What if assumption X is wrong." I was beginning to read the post and I notice this statement:

"however an understanding of MMP is essential to understanding the Elect One, his identity, why his identity is hidden, why his identity is unveiled when it is unveiled, and the answers to all those questions cast a brilliant light..."
I actually disagree with the above also, I do not think it is essential at all to understand "Multiple Mortal Probations" as being promoted, to understand the who's, the what's, the whys and the when's. But then also my mind has not wrapped around MMP as I think that even "IF" MMP is true, (which I highly doubt) it would be a dis-service to have those notions in our head in this probation. I think it is a huge detour, a sidetrack to the plan of salvation at this point and time, and that even giving it the possibility that it might be true.

So, MMP is essential to interpreting the idea of the Davidic servant? I am just trying to understanding what is being said in the assumptions and the amount of evidence being used to justify the conclusion. I go wherever the evidence leads... while of course standing with the prophets of the Church.

I am more curious about the Davidic servant part.

It was just curious because I had before reading the part from the Book of Enoch and think the case can be made that it is speaking about Jesus Christ (most things in Scripture talk about Christ) and then I was directed to read a blog, but then the first thing I read about the evidence for the idea that the Davidic servant is not Jesus Christ (or the verses speaking about it could be representative of the Church as a whole, or various prophets/individuals in different instances vs. one particular individual) has an "essential" prerequisite belief about MMP. It seems like the request is you need to go from point A > B > C. There seem to be many beliefs involved with this idea if that is the case. We should have lots of beliefs that might be considered spurious?

We tend to be very "jealous" for Christ, maybe because of not taking into very much consideration that Christ also employs servants to do very great works for Him. I absolutely believe in this "Servant" "Davidical" servant, or whatever we want to call Him. But this Servant is not Christ, but this Servant prepares the way for Christ just like unto John the Baptist. Whereas John prepared the way for Christ's temporal arrival, this Servant prepares the way for Christ's Marvelous Second Coming. This Servant I believe is the "Elias" , which, John had the spirit of. But what this Servant does, far exceeds anything Moses or any other "servant" has done in the past. What He does is so great, is the reason why I believe that we confuse His mission with Christs. He is the " Forerunner of Christ that prepares a people ( lest there be no flesh even left to receive Christ) and this earth to receive Him.
That is my belief....

I am not invoking any belief here. This is simply a literary analysis of Scripture. I asked a legitimate question and you just answered with, "Don't fight it... just accept it. He is a good guy."

Just give us the facts man. That is all we want. Analogies are great and all, but one of the things about analogies is that they always break down the further you push them. When do you know where to stop an analogy?

Joseph Smith is a forerunner.
Another forerunner: The Church itself and the members that have a true testimony of the Church.

The conclusion is being brought that a great end-times prophet will be a John the Baptist and will be called the "Davidic Servant" and will do XX number of things to be done and be greater than any other prophet. We know there are two witnesses in the end-times and that their mission is stated to be "to the Jewish people." I have not drawn any other conclusions about them.

[I AM]

We have been given a commandment by the Lord
to "search diligently" the words of Isaiah.
Everyone should understand Isaiah.

Go to http://www.isaiahexplained.com/

choose Chapter 1, then click on Apocalyptic Commentary
or also listen to it (sound bar on the right) Analytical Commentary.
it's very easy.


I believe Gileadi fulfills the prophecy in the B of M that in the latter days the words of Isaiah would be made plain unto the understanding of men!.


Isaiah's words "shall be of great worth unto them in the last days"
2 Nephi 25

Wherefore, hearken, O my people, which are of the house of Israel, and give ear unto my words; for because the words of Isaiah are not plain unto you,
nevertheless they are plain unto all those that are filled with the spirit of prophecy
(2 Nephi 25:4) in part

7 But behold, I proceed with mine own prophecy, according to my plainness; in the which I know that no man can err; nevertheless, in the days that the prophecies of Isaiah shall be fulfilled men shall know of a surety, at the times when they shall come to pass.

8 Wherefore, they are of worth unto the children of men,
and he that supposeth that they are not,
unto them will I speak particularly, and confine the words
unto mine own people; for I know that they
shall be of great worth unto them in the last days;
for in that day shall they understand them;
wherefore, for their good have I written them.

Mormon 8:
23 Search the prophecies of Isaiah. Behold, I cannot write them. Yea, behold I say unto you, that those saints who have gone before me, who have possessed this land, shall cry, yea, even from the dust will they cry unto the Lord; and as the Lord liveth he will remember the covenant which he hath made with them.
----------------------------------------------------------------

WHY DID THE LORD HIMSELF SAY

"for great are the words of Isaiah" and
gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Because they are speaking about us -
the (Gentiles - especially the church today)

3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

2 "For surely he spake as touching all things
concerning my people which are of the house of Israel;
therefore it must needs be that he must speak
also to the Gentiles."
( Gentiles are us, members, and all of us here today in the U.S. )

3 "And all things that he spake (have been and shall be),
even according to the words which he spake."

4 "Therefore give heed to my words;
write the things which I have told you;
and according to the time and the will
of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles."

3 Nephi 20:11
11 "Ye remember that I spake unto you,
and said that when the words of Isaiah
should be fulfilled—behold they are written,
ye have them before you, therefore search them-"
--------------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah has now been unsealed and brought
to light by the Lord for our understanding in these last days.

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past
to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.

ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.

[I AM]

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/48#commentary

Isaiah 48

Jehovah’s servant calls on Jacob/Israel to forsake its idols and return in a new exodus out of Babylon.

1 Hear this, O house of Jacob,
you who are named Israel—
though youa stem from the lineageb of Judah—
who take oaths in the name of Jehovah
and invoke the God of Israel,
though not in truth or in righteousness,
2 who call yourselves of the holy city,
upheld by the God of Israel,
whose name is Jehovah of Hosts:

Like the ancient Jacob/Israel category of Jehovah’s people, its end-time counterpart acts presumptuously. Its religion consists of going through the motions of worship but “not in truth or in righteousness”—not by Jehovah’s standard of righteousness as exemplified by his servant (Isaiah 41:2; 46:11-13). Its sins include improperly “taking oaths” or covenanting in the name of Jehovah and inappropriately “invoking” or referring to him. Yet they assume they are upheld by the God of Israel whose heavenly “hosts” are holy (Isaiah 40:26) even as their hypocrisy renders them and their “city” unholy.

3 The prophecies of the events of the past
I made known long beforehand;
no sooner did they issue from my mouth,
than I caused them to be announced.
Then, suddenly, I acted and they came about.
4 For I knew how stubborn you were—
your neck was an iron sinew, your brow brazen—
5 therefore I told you them beforehand;
I announced them to you before they transpired,
lest you should say, My idols did it;
my graven and wrought images caused it!

Typical of Jehovah’s dealings with his people is his foretelling events before they occur. Where such prophecy is lacking (Isaiah 29:9-10; 41:22-24, 26), his Spirit has withdrawn because of wickedness. At that point people are prone to take matters into their own hands instead of turning to Jehovah (Isaiah 9:9-10; 17:8-11). Where ancient prophecies came to pass, it was a sign they were of God, not of man. Where prophecies apply to both the past and the end-time, as do Isaiah’s, their future fulfillment is assured based on past results. Jehovah’s servant—his mouth—conforms to that divine pattern.

6 But you have heard cthe whole vision;c
how is it you do not proclaim it?
Yet as of now, I announce to you new things,
things withheld and unknown to you,

The “whole vision” or “vision of everything” (hazut kullah) refers to the vision of the end from the beginning Isaiah received at his second prophetic commission (Isaiah 40:1-6; 46:10). That vision, Isaiah embedded in his book as a message for the end-time (Isaiah 30:8). At fault are Jehovah’s end-time people for not proclaiming or even understanding it (Isaiah 29:11): “Have I not made it known to you from of old? Did I not foretell it, you being my witnesses?” (Isaiah 44:8). Their failing to serve as Jehovah’s witnesses places them among the blind and deaf (Isaiah 29:18; 42:18-20; 43:10, 12; 44:7-8).

6 But you have heard cthe whole vision;c
how is it you do not proclaim it?
Yet as of now, I announce to you new things,
things withheld and unknown to you,
7 things now coming into being, not hitherto,
things you have not heard of before,
lest you should say, Indeed I knew them!
8 You have not heard them,
nor have you known them;
before this your ears have not been open to them.For I knew you would turn treacherous;
you were called a transgressor from the womb.

The “new things” Jehovah predicts through his end-time servant (Isaiah 41:27; 42:9; 52:15) establish proof of Jehovah’s divinity and of the legitimacy of his servant at the time the world observes them coming to pass (vv 14-16; Isaiah 43:9-12; 44:26-28; 46:8-11). As Jehovah withholds knowledge that might condemn his people should they not live up to it, so “a day of small things” has prevailed until now (cf. Zechariah 4:10). Typifying the end-time, on the other hand, is Jehovah’s performing “wonders”—earthshaking deeds that are acknowledged throughout the earth (Isaiah 12:4-5; 25:1; 29:14).

The “new things” Jehovah does, however, pose a hazard to persons unfamiliar with the old. When his people assume that his former works no longer relate to today, they stand to reject the new works Jehovah does as well (Isaiah 28:14-22; 45:9-11; 50:8-11; 66:4-9). Only persons who know his dealings in the past will thus likely comprehend his dealings in the future. As all of Jehovah’s acts follow the patterns of the past, the new things he performs resemble the old with the exception that all now happens on a world scale and that new things may consist of composite replays of former things.

9 For my own name’s sake I have bridled my wrath;
on account of my renown
I have shown restraint toward you
by not entirely destroying you.
10 See, I am refining you, though not as silver;
I am testingd you in the crucible of affliction.
11 For my own sake, on my own account, I do it,
that my namee be not dishonored,
nor my glory, which I give to no other.

As Jehovah’s Day of Judgment entails both deliverance and destruction, what is it that determines who lives and who dies? The answer is that Jehovah is bound by the terms of the covenants he has made. With Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, for example, he covenanted that he would preserve their lineage on the earth—not all, but at least a remnant (Genesis 22:17-18; 26:4; 28:14; Exodus 2:24). With David and others he covenanted the same (Psalm 89:3-4; Jeremiah 33:17-22). Hence the expressions “for my own sake” and “on my own account” as Jehovah honors his covenants (Isaiah 37:35; 43:25).

Under the terms of the Davidic Covenant, Jehovah additionally delivers his people for the sake of his end-time servants: “As when there is juice in a cluster of grapes and someone says, ‘Don’t destroy it, it is still good,’ so I will do for the sake of my servants by not destroying everything: I will extract offspring out of Jacob, and out of Judah heirs of my mountains; my chosen ones shall inherit them, servants shall dwell there” (Isaiah 65:8-9; emphasis added; cf. 63:17). Jehovah’s delivering Hezekiah’s people “for my own sake and for the sake of my servant David” is a case in point (Isaiah 37:35).

A third covenant under whose terms Jehovah saves his people is the Sinai Covenant. It stipulates that if his people prove loyal as a nation, then Jehovah is bound to preserve them (Exodus 23:20-33; Leviticus 26:1-13; Numbers 14:41-45). Jehovah’s bridling his wrath or anger, therefore—his constraining the king of Assyria/Babylon from destroying all his people—serves a dual purpose: (1) it fulfills Jehovah’s covenants with his righteous people and with elect individuals; and (2) it preserves alive a remnant of his people that repents as a result of passing through the archtyrant’s refiner’s fire.

12 Hear me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I have called:
I am he who was at the first,
and I am he who is at the last.
13 It was my hand that founded the earth,
my right hand that stretched out the heavens;
when I call them, they arise at once.

Before testifying of his servant (vv 14-15), Jehovah again speaks of himself as creator of the heavens and the earth, this time with the added implication that his servant—his hand and right hand—assisted in their creation (Isaiah 45:12). The God who was “at the first,” moreover—at the creation of the heavens and the earth—will also be “at the last” (Isaiah 41:4), suggesting that with the coming of his servant the world’s end-time scenario begins. Jehovah’s “calling” the heavenly host signifies their divine enthronement (Isaiah 40:26), fulfilling his promise to Abraham of a celestial posterity (Genesis 22:17).

14 All of you, assemble and hear:
Who among youf foretold these things?
It is him Jehovah loves,
who shall perform his will in Babylon;
his arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15 I myself have spoken it, and also called him;
I have brought him, and I will prosperg his way.

Although the Jacob/Israel category of Jehovah’s people doesn’t anticipate the coming of the king of Assyria/Babylon or Jehovah’s servant, all becomes evident when the servant appears. In case of doubt, the God who created the heavens and the earth (v 13) has “spoken it,” “called him,” “brought him,” “loves” him, and “prospers his way” (Isaiah 41:2; 42:6; 45:3-4; 46:11, 13; 49:1; 55:3-4). As Jehovah’s arm, the servant intervenes in Greater Babylon to lead Jehovah’s elect out of all nations, setting in motion their end-time restoration (Isaiah 40:10-11; 51:5, 9-11; 52:7-12; 59:16; 62:8-12; 63:11-12).

16 Come near me and hear this:
I have not made predictions in secret;
at their coming to pass, I have been present.
Now my Lord Jehovah has sent me;
his Spirit is in me.h

After Jehovah introduces him (vv 14-15), the servant speaks. As Jehovah testifies of him, so he testifies of Jehovah. Instead of turning people away as the archtyrant does, he invites them to hear him. Unlike the blind and deaf prophets of Jehovah’s people (Isaiah 41:21-24, Isaiah 41:21-24, 26; 56:10; 56:10), he predicts the future; and what he predicts comes to pass. As the servant’s covenant Lord or emperor under the terms of the Davidic Covenant, Jehovah has “sent” him (selahani), a term signifying apostleship, and his “Spirit” is in him—word links confirming him as Jehovah’s servant (Isaiah 11:2; 19:20; 42:1; 61:1).

17 Thus says Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel,
your Redeemer:
I Jehovah your God instruct you to your good,
guiding you in the way you should go.

Whether through his servant or through his holy Spirit, Jehovah instructs or teaches his people (Isaiah 30:21; 50:10; 59:21), guiding them in the way they should go. As there are essentially two ways—one good and one evil (Isaiah 1:16-17; 7:15-16; 65:2)—his people should choose the good and enjoy the blessings of his covenant. If not, covenant curses accrue. Jehovah’s titles—“Holy One of Israel,” “your Redeemer,” and “your God”—convey the idea of his unchanging fidelity that is grounded in his divine benevolence, inviting his errant people to return to a covenant relationship with him.

18 Had you but obeyed my commandments,
your peace would have been as a river,
your righteousness like the waves of the sea;
19 your offspring would have been
as the sands in number,
your descendants as many as their grains.
Their names would not have been cut off
and obliterated from my presence.

Keeping Jehovah’s commandments—the law of his covenant—defines righteousness by Jehovah’s standard (Isaiah 42:21; 51:4-5, 7) and begets peace (Isaiah 26:2-3; 57:2). Righteousness, moreover—as a spiritual attribute and as Jehovah’s servant personifies it (Isaiah 26:7-10; 41:2)—begets salvation (Isaiah 46:12-13; 56:1), which is itself synonymous with peace (Isaiah 26:1, 3; 52:7). Peace, in turn, implies an absence of the power of chaos Sea and River, which the archtyrant personifies (Isaiah 5:30; 8:7-8) but which Jehovah subdues when his people keep the terms of his covenant (Isaiah 60:5; 66:12).

As Abraham exemplified righteousness (Genesis 15:6), and as Jehovah promised him offspring as many as the sands of the sea (Genesis 22:17), so he promises the same to those whose righteousness compares with Abraham’s. The alternative to covenant blessings, however, are covenant curses. Instead of receiving “an everlasting name that shall not be cut off” (Isaiah 56:5; cf. 62:2; 66:22), the names of Jehovah’s unrepentant people and their offspring are “cut off”—that is, excluded from his covenant people and included in the Greater Babylon category that is damned (Isaiah 14:22; 63:19; 65:15).

20 Go forth out of Babylon, flee from Chaldea!
Make this announcement with resounding voice;
broadcast it to the end of the earth.
Say, Jehovah has redeemed his servant Jacob.
21 They thirsted not when he led them through arid places:
he caused water to flow for them from the rock;
he cleaved the rock and water gushed out.

To find peace, Jehovah’s people must exit Greater Babylon—the world at large (Isaiah 13:1, 9, 11, 19)—in a new exodus to Zion from the four directions of the earth (Isaiah 11:11-12, 15-16; 43:6-8). Jehovah’s servant or voice and Zion’s watchmen announce it (Isaiah 52:7-12). As Jehovah provided water for his people when Moses smote the rock at Israel’s former wandering in the wilderness (Exodus 17:6; Numbers 20:7-11), so he provides water when that event repeats itself (Isaiah 41:17-18; 43:20; 49:9-12). Jehovah—his people’s rock—is their source of living water (Isaiah 12:2-3; 26:4).

22 But there is no peace, says Jehovah,
for the wicked.

He who begets peace is Jehovah: “O Jehovah, you bring about our peace” (Isaiah 26:12); “I occasion peace and cause calamity” (Isaiah 45:7; cf. 53:5; 66:12). While “they who walk uprightly shall attain peace and rest in their beds” (Isaiah 57:2), transgressors know no peace: “The wicked are like the raging Sea, unable to rest, whose waters heave up mire and mud. ‘There is no peace,’ says my God, ‘for the wicked’” (Isaiah 57:20-21); “They are unacquainted with the way of perfection; integrity is not within their bounds. They have made crooked their paths; none who treads them knows peace” (Isaiah 59:8).

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http://www.isaiahexplained.com/49#commentary

Isaiah 49

Jehovah empowers his servant after he is rejected to restore his people and to implement their new exodus.

1 Hear me, O isles; listen, you distant peoples:
Jehovah called me before I was in the belly;
before I was in my mother’s womb,
he mentioned me by name.

Jehovah having spoken of his servant (cf. Isaiah 41:1-3, 25-27; 42:1-7; 44:26-28; 45:1-6, 13; 46:11-13; 48:14-15), the servant speaks of himself, asserting Jehovah foreordained him before his mother conceived him. Jehovah’s “naming” him and “calling” him to an international mission—to “the isles” and “distant people”—signify ascent to the seraph category. Jehovah had likewise called Jeremiah to an international mission before his birth: “Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came out of the womb, I sanctified you. I ordained you a prophet to the nations” (Jeremiah 1:5, 10).

2 He has made my mouth like a sharp sword—
in the shadowa of his hand he hid me.
He has made me into a polished arrow—
in his quiver he kept me secret.

Jehovah’s “hiding” and “secreting” his servant suggests that the world knows nothing of his calling until the time Jehovah empowers him. Even Jehovah’s people don’t know him or are ignorant of him until he fulfills his mission: “You will summon a nation that you did not know; a nation that did not know you will hasten to you” (Isaiah 55:5). He himself, therefore, is one of the “new things” Jehovah does suddenly that test the loyalty of his people (Isaiah 42:9; 48:6-8; 51:4-11). The terms mouth, sword, hand, and arrow designate Jehovah’s servant metaphorically (Isaiah 31:8; 51:16; 62:2-3).

3 He said to me, You are my servant,
Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 I had thought, I have labored in vain,
I have spent my strength for nothing
and to no purpose!
Yet my cause rested with Jehovah,
my recompense with my God.

Jehovah’s calling his servant “Israel” parallels Jehovah’s calling his people’s ancestor Jacob by his new name Israel after Jacob had proven loyal to him (Genesis 32:28). The servant’s receiving a new name, in other words—which the name Israel here symbolizes—attests to his ascent to a higher spiritual level after he has proven loyal to Jehovah. It also implies that he—Jehovah’s individual servant—serves as a surrogate of and as an exemplar to Jehovah’s collective servant; that is, to Jehovah’s people in the Jacob/Israel category to whom Jehovah sends him (vv 5-9; Isaiah 41:27; 42:6-7; 48:16).

One way the servant proves loyal is to continue laboring in Jehovah’s cause even in the face of few positive results. By all appearances, he at first spends a great deal of energy “in vain” and “for nothing and to no purpose.” And yet, desiring to serve Jehovah even under the most adversarial conditions (v 7; Isaiah 50:6-9; 52:13-14), he submits to Jehovah’s will: “My Lord Jehovah has endowed me with a learned tongue, that I may know how to preach to those grown weary a word to wake them up” (Isaiah 50:4). Before ascending to Isaiah’s seraph level, he descends through trials that consume him.

5 For now Jehovah has said—
he who formed me from the womb
to be his servant, to restore Jacob to him,
Israel having been gathered to him;
for I won honor in the eyes of Jehovah
when my God became my strength—
6 he said: It is too small a thing
for you to be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to restore those preserved of Israel.
I will also appoint you to be a light to the nations,b
that my salvation may be to the end of the earth.

A reversal of circumstances takes place for Jehovah’s servant when the trials he endures have served their purpose to purify, perfect, and sanctify him to a higher spiritual level, thereby qualifying him for a new commission. Jacob/Israel’s restoration, to which task he was foreordained (v 1), Jehovah augments with a mission to serve as a light to the “nations” or “Gentiles” (goyim) “to the end of the earth.” From there, Jehovah’s people are to return (Isaiah 41:8-9; 43:5-6), so that all who desire it might participate in Jehovah’s salvation and prepare for Jehovah’s coming as salvation (Isaiah 52:7; 62:11).

Jehovah “appoints” his servant when he “wins honor” in Jehovah’s eyes by proving faithful through trials (v 4), at which time his God becomes his “strength.” The servant’s physical exploits that follow—subduing nations, releasing captives, leading the new exodus, and rebuilding ruins (Isaiah 9:2-5; 11:10-16; 41:2-3, 25; 45:1-3, 13; 48:14; 61:1-4)—should thus be seen in the context of an ascent phase of divine empowerment that follows his descent phase through afflictions as he fulfills his role of proxy savior to the Jacob/Israel category of Jehovah’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant.

7 Thus says Jehovah,
the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel,
to him who is despised as a person,
who is abhorred by his nation,
a servant to those in authority:
Kings shall rise up when they see you,
princes shall prostrate themselves,
because Jehovah keeps faith with you,
because the Holy One of Israel has chosen you.

Although Jehovah’s servant is at first “despised as a person” and “abhorred by his nation” as his own reject him, Jehovah exalts him in the eyes of those who see him as a threat to their authority. Jehovah rewards his servant’s faithfulness toward him in the face of opposition with his own acts of faithfulness toward his servant. Henceforth, as the servant begins the temporal phase of Jacob/Israel’s restoration, he becomes prominent worldwide (Isaiah 11:10-12; 52:15; 55:5). Kings and princes now honor him who was dishonored and assist in the restoration of Jehovah’s people (vv 22-23; Isaiah 60:3-11).

8 Thus says Jehovah:
At a favorable time I have answered you;
in the day of salvation I have come to your aid:
I have created you and appointed you
to be a covenant of the people,
to restore the Land and reapportion the desolate estates,
9 to say to the captives, Come forth!
and to those in darkness, Show yourselves!
They shall feed along the way
and find pasture on all barren heights;

The servant’s reversal of circumstances portends a reversal of circumstances for Jehovah’s elect. As Jehovah empowers his servant, so the servant empowers them (Isaiah 61:1-5). Both follow the same pattern of loyalty to Jehovah: “Your faithfulness in time [of trial] shall prove to be a strength, your wisdom and knowledge your salvation” (Isaiah 33:6). The “favorable time” in which Jehovah answers his servant’s intercession on behalf of his people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant coincides with the “day of salvation”—Jehovah’s Day of Judgment that precedes his coming to the earth.

Jehovah’s “creating” or re-creating and “appointing” his servant as a covenant to his people (cf. Isaiah 42:6) denotes his ascent to the seraph level and his role as mediator of Jehovah’s covenant. After freeing the spiritual captives of Jehovah’s people (Isaiah 42:7)—those who were blind and deaf on account of their idolatries (Isaiah 42:17-20)—the servant frees them physically (vv 24-25; Isaiah 45:13). Those who were subject to physical darkness—to the king of Assyria/Babylon—the servant appoints lands of inheritance as Jehovah’s coming as salvation draws near (v 8; Isaiah 52:7; 58:8, 12).

9 to say to the captives, Come forth!
and to those in darkness, Show yourselves!
They shall feed along the way
and find pasture on all barren heights;
10 they shall not hunger or thirst,
nor be smitten by the heatwave or the sun:
he who has mercy on them will guide them;
he will lead them by springs of water.

Released from captivity, the exiles travel in the wilderness as did Israel’s ancestors who were released from captivity in Egypt (Isaiah 63:11-14). Jehovah guides them safely home: “Like a shepherd he pastures his flock: the lambs he gathers up with his arm and carries in his bosom; the ewes that give milk he leads gently along” (Isaiah 40:11). His cloud of glory protects them from the elements: “It shall be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, a secret refuge from the downpour and from rain” (Isaiah 4:6). They neither hunger nor thirst: “Bread is provided them, their water is sure” (Isaiah 33:16).

11 All my mountain ranges I will appoint as roads;
my highways shall be on high.
12 See these, coming from afar, these, from the northwest,
and these, from the land of Sinim.

The new exodus of Jehovah’s elect out of Babylon (Isaiah 48:20-21; 52:11-12) is from all parts of the earth: “From the isles they are gathering to me, the ships of Tarshish in the lead, to bring back your children from afar, and with them their silver and gold, to Jehovah Omnipotent, your God, to the Holy One of Israel, who has made you illustrious” (Isaiah 60:9; cf. 11:11-12; 43:5-6). “Taken from the ends of the earth, called from its farthest limits” (Isaiah 41:9; cf. 45:22), they return in a joyful pilgrimage to Zion (Isaiah 30:29; 60:3-11). Many return from as far as the “land of Sinim”—China or the Orient.

Not only do they traverse mountains but also deserts, seas, rivers, and fire (Isaiah 11:15; 35:6-7; 43:2, 16, 19-20). Those who return are Jehovah’s elect or holy ones: “There shall be highways and roads which shall be called the Way of Holiness, for they shall be for such [as are holy]. The unclean shall not traverse them; on them shall no reprobates wander. . . . But the redeemed shall walk them, the ransomed of Jehovah shall return; they shall come singing to Zion, their heads crowned with everlasting joy. They shall have won joy and gladness when sorrow and sighing flee away” (Isaiah 35:8-10).

13 Shout for joy, O heavens; celebrate, O earth!
Burst into song, O mountains!
Jehovah is comforting his people,
showing compassion for his afflicted.

As Songs of Salvation followed Israel’s exodus out of Egypt (Exodus 15:1-21), so they follow the new exodus. Those who were afflicted—whom Jehovah tested “in the crucible of affliction” (Isaiah 48:10; cf. 30:20)—he now comforts and shows compassion (Isaiah 14:1; 51:3; 52:9; 54:7-10; 60:10; 61:2; 66:12-13). Having passed the test of their loyalty and expiated their iniquities (Isaiah 33:6; 40:1), they shout and sing for joy (Isaiah 12:6; 24:14-15; 35:6). His people’s rebirth on a higher spiritual level leads to their ecstatic praise and celebration and giving Jehovah the glory (Isaiah 65:18; 66:8-10).

14 But Zion said, Jehovah has forsaken me,
my Lord has forgotten me.
15 Can a woman forget her suckling infant,
or feel no compassion for the child of her womb?
Although these shall forget, I will not forget you.
16 See, I have engraved you on my palms;
cI have sealed youc to be continually before me.

Because the higher a person ascends spiritually the greater the descent through trials that precedes it, so the Zion/Jerusalem category of Jehovah’s people—those of Jacob/Israel who repent of transgression (Isaiah 59:20)—endures greater afflictions than before. So much, that at times those who are in the midst of their descent phase feel that Jehovah has forsaken or forgotten them. Jehovah reminds them that he never forgets them, that he went through descent before ascent when they “pierced my hands and my feet” as he atoned for their sins (Psalm 22:16; cf. Isaiah 43:24-25; 53:4-5; 63:8-9).

Zion/Jerusalem’s travail resembles that of a woman when she gives birth, the whole purpose being Zion/Jerusalem’s rebirth or re-creation on a higher spiritual level: “Who has heard the like, or who has seen such things? Can the earth labor but a day and a nation be born at once? For as soon as she was in labor, Zion gave birth to her children. ‘Shall I bring to a crisis and not bring on birth?’ says Jehovah. ‘When it is I who cause the birth, shall I hinder it?’ says your God” (Isaiah 66:8-9; cf. vv 20-22; 45:11; 54:1). Jehovah’s covenant love and loyalty far exceed a mortal mother’s toward her child.

17 Your sons shall hasten your ravagers away—
those who ruined you shall depart from you.
18 Lift up your eyes and look around you;
with one accord they gather and come to you.
As surely as I live, says Jehovah,
you shall adorn yourself with them all as with jewels,
bind them on you as does a bride.

Reborn or re-created on the son/servant level, Zion/Jerusalem’s “sons” and “daughters” (v 22)—Jehovah’s elect—return to Zion to inherit permanent promised lands. Divine empowerment accompanies their ascent, enabling them to vanquish enemies who “ravaged” and “ruined” them. Comprising two chief blessings of Jehovah’s covenant, land and offspring (Isaiah 51:2-3; 54:3) become unconditional for Jehovah’s sons and daughters. Bridal imagery alludes to Jehovah’s individual covenants with his elect, their comparison with “jewels” signifying a precious spiritual category (Isaiah 61:10; 62:3-5).

19 For your ruins and ravaged places,
and your land laid waste,
shall now be too small for your inhabitants,
despite the departure of your devourers.
20 The children born during the time of your bereavement
shall yet say in your ears,
This place is too cramped for us;
give us space in which to settle!

Those who return from exile to inherit the lands Jehovah promised their ancestors find them ravaged and laid waste by the Assyrian alliance and others (Isaiah 1:7; 9:12; 33:9). Even when they are rebuilt (Isaiah 44:26; 58:12; 61:4), the sheer numbers of Jehovah’s returning people necessitates that they spread out from there: “Expand the site of your tent; extend the canopies of your dwellings. Do not hold back; lengthen your cords and strengthen your stakes. For you shall spread abroad to the right and to the left; your offspring shall dispossess the nations and resettle the desolate cities” (Isaiah 54:2-3).

21 And you will say to yourself,
Who bore me these while I was bereaved and barren?
I was exiled, banished;
by whom were these reared?
When I was left to myself, where were they?

The “time of bereavement” of Jehovah’s people (v 20)—when they were “bereaved,” “barren,” “exiled,” and “banished”—ends with a huge influx of offspring as those at home welcome the returning exiles from abroad: “Open the gates to let in the nation righteous because it keeps faith” (Isaiah 26:2); “Nations will come to your light, their kings to the brightness of your dawn. Lift up your eyes and look about you! They have all assembled to come to you: your sons shall arrive from afar; your daughters shall return to your side” (Isaiah 60:3-4). Cut off from each other for many centuries, they now reunite.

22 Thus says my Lord Jehovah:
I will lift up my hand to the nations,
raise my ensign to the peoples;
and they will bring your sons in their bosoms
and carry your daughters on their shoulders.
23 Kings shall be your foster fathers,
queens your nursing mothers.
They will bow down before you,
their faces to the ground;
they will lick the dust of your feet.
Then shall you know that I am Jehovah,
and that they who hope in me are not disappointed.

Jehovah’s raising his hand and ensign—his end-time servant—brings about his people’s return from exile: “In that day the sprig of Jesse, who stands for an ensign to the peoples, shall be sought by the nations, and his rest shall be glorious. In that day my Lord will again raise his hand to reclaim the remnant of his people—those who shall be left out of Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and the islands of the sea. He will raise the ensign to the nations and assemble the exiled of Israel; he will gather the scattered of Judah from the four directions of the earth” (Isaiah 11:10-12; emphasis added).

The kings and queens of the “nations” or “Gentiles” (goyim) escort Jehovah’s “sons” and “daughters”—his elect who ascend to the son/servant category—in a new exodus out of all nations when Jehovah empowers his servant (Isaiah 11:15-16; 48:20-21; 51:9-11; 52:11-15; 55:3-5, 12). Having attained the seraph category, these spiritual kings and queens exercise power over enemies and obstacles in the pattern of Moses and Elijah, enabling Jehovah’s people to walk through deserts, mountains, seas, rivers, and fire in the new exodus to Zion (v 11; Isaiah 11:15; 35:6-10; 41:10-13, 17-18; 43:2; 51:10).

A disparity exists between these same spiritual kings and queens of the Gentiles and other Gentiles who, instead of repenting, oppose Jehovah’s people (Isaiah 29:7-8; 54:15-17; 66:5). While the Gentiles’ kings and queens fulfill their roles of proxy saviors under the terms of the Davidic Covenant on the seraph level, those Gentiles who turn into Jehovah’s enemies end up bowing down before his people and licking the dust of their feet (Isaiah 45:14; 60:14; 66:5). Those who “know” Jehovah in the end are those who “hope in” or “wait for” (qiwweh) him through a time of adversity (Isaiah 19:21; 25:9; 52:6).

24 Can the warrior’s spoil be taken from him,
or the tyrant’sd captives escape free?
25 Yet thus says Jehovah: The warrior’s spoile
shall indeed be taken from him,
and the tyrant’s captivesf escape free:I myself will contend with your contenders,
and I will deliver your children.

As the “warrior” and “tyrant” who takes “spoil” and “captives” (Isaiah 10:3-6; 14:16-17; 33:1, 4), the king of Assyria/Babylon (Isaiah 10:13-14; 14:4; 37:21-27) is deprived of his gains when Jehovah reverses his people’s circumstances. Upon Jehovah’s empowering his servant, the servant releases the captives (v 9; Isaiah 42:7; 43:6-8; 61:1) and recovers the spoil (Isaiah 9:3; 33:23; 53:12). Under his warrior aspect, Jehovah fights for his people (Isaiah 41:11-12; 42:13; 59:17-19) and delivers his “children” or “sons” (banayik)—those who ascend and become his elect (Isaiah 27:12; 29:20-24; 66:8).

26 I will feed your oppressors with their own flesh;
they shall be drunk with their own blood as with wine.
And all flesh shall know that I Jehovah am your Savior,
that your Redeemer is the Valiant One of Jacob.

After his people have suffered at the hands of tyrants local and foreign—to try their faith and to expiate their iniquities (Isaiah 40:1-2)—Jehovah takes vengeance on their enemies: “Hear this, O wretched one, drunk, though not with wine. Thus says Jehovah, your Lord and God, who defends the cause of his people: ‘I am taking the cup of stupor from your hand; you shall drink no more from the bowl of my wrath. And I give it into the hand of your tormentors’” (Isaiah 51:22-23). The Valiant One of Jacob demonstrates his valor in the eyes of “all flesh” when he redeems his elect from their oppressors.

[Alaris]

I am more curious about the Davidic servant part.

It was just curious because I had before reading the part from the Book of Enoch and think the case can be made that it is speaking about Jesus Christ (most things in Scripture talk about Christ) and then I was directed to read a blog, but then the first thing I read about the evidence for the idea that the Davidic servant is not Jesus Christ (or the verses speaking about it could be representative of the Church as a whole, or various prophets/individuals in different instances vs. one particular individual) has an "essential" prerequisite belief about MMP. It seems like the request is you need to go from point A > B > C. There seem to be many beliefs involved with this idea if that is the case. We should have lots of beliefs that might be considered spurious?

We tend to be very "jealous" for Christ, maybe because of not taking into very much consideration that Christ also employs servants to do very great works for Him. I absolutely believe in this "Servant" "Davidical" servant, or whatever we want to call Him. But this Servant is not Christ, but this Servant prepares the way for Christ just like unto John the Baptist. Whereas John prepared the way for Christ's temporal arrival, this Servant prepares the way for Christ's Marvelous Second Coming. This Servant I believe is the "Elias" , which, John had the spirit of. But what this Servant does, far exceeds anything Moses or any other "servant" has done in the past. What He does is so great, is the reason why I believe that we confuse His mission with Christs. He is the " Forerunner of Christ that prepares a people ( lest there be no flesh even left to receive Christ) and this earth to receive Him.
That is my belief....

I am not invoking any belief here. This is simply a literary analysis of Scripture. I asked a legitimate question and you just answered with, "Don't fight it... just accept it. He is a good guy."

Just give us the facts man. That is all we want. Analogies are great and all, but one of the things about analogies is that they always break down the further you push them. When do you know where to stop an analogy?

Joseph Smith is a forerunner.
Another forerunner: The Church itself and the members that have a true testimony of the Church.

The conclusion is being brought that a great end-times prophet will be a John the Baptist and will be called the "Davidic Servant" and will do XX number of things to be done and be greater than any other prophet. We know there are two witnesses in the end-times and that their mission is stated to be "to the Jewish people." I have not drawn any other conclusions about them.

I'll post more on this in a bit, but I highly recommend going to the source on this issue. It wasn't until I hit rock bottom and asked the Lord to show me the way that I had reached a humility that would allow me to overcome my "jealousy" for Christ as Simpleton beautifully put it. The more I learn, the more this makes even more sense with my jealousy for Christ. Wouldn't Jehovah, our Lord Jesus Christ, glorify His servants and His father more than Himself? The messianic prophecies of Isaiah are largely directed at His servant - His heir.

Anyway, I'll post on this more in a bit. I've never written about the Elias / Davidic Servant in an effort to persuade people. This required divine intervention on my part and I'm not so arrogant as to believe I can throw some facts at people and have them be like, "Oh yeah. Facts are overwhelming here!"

[mmm..cheese]

I am more curious about the Davidic servant part.

It was just curious because I had before reading the part from the Book of Enoch and think the case can be made that it is speaking about Jesus Christ (most things in Scripture talk about Christ) and then I was directed to read a blog, but then the first thing I read about the evidence for the idea that the Davidic servant is not Jesus Christ (or the verses speaking about it could be representative of the Church as a whole, or various prophets/individuals in different instances vs. one particular individual) has an "essential" prerequisite belief about MMP. It seems like the request is you need to go from point A > B > C. There seem to be many beliefs involved with this idea if that is the case. We should have lots of beliefs that might be considered spurious?

We tend to be very "jealous" for Christ, maybe because of not taking into very much consideration that Christ also employs servants to do very great works for Him. I absolutely believe in this "Servant" "Davidical" servant, or whatever we want to call Him. But this Servant is not Christ, but this Servant prepares the way for Christ just like unto John the Baptist. Whereas John prepared the way for Christ's temporal arrival, this Servant prepares the way for Christ's Marvelous Second Coming. This Servant I believe is the "Elias" , which, John had the spirit of. But what this Servant does, far exceeds anything Moses or any other "servant" has done in the past. What He does is so great, is the reason why I believe that we confuse His mission with Christs. He is the " Forerunner of Christ that prepares a people ( lest there be no flesh even left to receive Christ) and this earth to receive Him.
That is my belief....

I am not invoking any belief here. This is simply a literary analysis of Scripture. I asked a legitimate question and you just answered with, "Don't fight it... just accept it. He is a good guy."

Just give us the facts man. That is all we want. Analogies are great and all, but one of the things about analogies is that they always break down the further you push them. When do you know where to stop an analogy?

Joseph Smith is a forerunner.
Another forerunner: The Church itself and the members that have a true testimony of the Church.

The conclusion is being brought that a great end-times prophet will be a John the Baptist and will be called the "Davidic Servant" and will do XX number of things to be done and be greater than any other prophet. We know there are two witnesses in the end-times and that their mission is stated to be "to the Jewish people." I have not drawn any other conclusions about them.

I'll post more on this in a bit, but I highly recommend going to the source on this issue. It wasn't until I hit rock bottom and asked the Lord to show me the way that I had reached a humility that would allow me to overcome my "jealousy" for Christ as Simpleton beautifully put it. The more I learn, the more this makes even more sense with my jealousy for Christ. Wouldn't Jehovah, our Lord Jesus Christ, glorify His servants and His father more than Himself? The messianic prophecies of Isaiah are largely directed at His servant - His heir.

Anyway, I'll post on this more in a bit. I've never written about the Elias / Davidic Servant in an effort to persuade people. This required divine intervention on my part and I'm not so arrogant as to believe I can throw some facts at people and have them be like, "Oh yeah. Facts are overwhelming here!"

I will let you know something about me. I am a very left-brained individual and I am not emotional when it comes to discussing these doctrines. I do not have a strong desire to prove a point about something I identify with. Whatever is true is all there is and I accept whatever is true and move on with my life without a second thought about it.

What source are you talking about? I have read about the Davidic Servant stuff and literally, it seems as if every book of Scripture is being cited to be used as evidence for the existence of a Davidic Servant that is like the John the Baptist who will be like a type of Christ. Maybe even a foreshadowing of the Second Coming. Like a modern day Enoch doing the things he did. I am not jealous for Christ at all (as he put it). If I was, I wouldn't have converted to Mormonism, don't you think?

I actually think while that is an interesting idea - the Father of us all is glorified in His Servant, Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ speaks in Isaiah (as the God of the Old Testament) He can very well be speaking the words of His Father. Jesus Christ is the humble servant of our Father. He is the annointed heir. Neo in the matrix is based off the man Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ that is going to cause every person who has ever laughed at the resurrection to have their mouths stopped. He is the one who is like an arrow and and sharped sword. I feel that by reading the Messianic prophecies of Isaiah you can learn more about Jesus Christ - the things not spoken of in the Gospels.

Have you not ever wondered - How did the baby in a manger ever grow up to become a teenager with a close relationship with God, studying the Scriptures of Isaiah closely, come to line by line, precept by precept, understanding through faith that he was the Chosen Servant of God. The Heir of God's kingdom and the embodiment of the salvation of all mankind. And as He learned more He would come to realize that He was the rightful heir to King David's throne. And then further come to know that He would be rejected by the large majority of His own people and be murdered, but like Abraham and believed in God and trusted God to raise up his only son Isaac - the young Jesus learned that He would Himself be resurrected and be like unto God at His own right hand and appear to many.

The verses of Isaiah have some hidden treasures in them, I think. You just have to realize who they are speaking about.

Jesus has an amazing story that most people do not know about. I would desire to know THAT story.

If in fact there is a forerunner to the return of Christ (which surely there is, ever heard of the two witnesses? - on a side note the two witnesses could be a representation of the idea of a literal Father and a Son Godhead, a symbolic representation of the truth of the Son of God... this is DEFINITELY speculation and not important at all) then it will likely be something we will easily be able to see and understand, as people who have already received the Gospel. The huge majority of Earth has not received the Gospel and are lost at this point in time lying in sin. If you compare that to the Church and the covenants we have - it is a huge deal. We have a great opportunity in the Church to move towards exaltation.

The greatest among us have small beginnings.. you cannot possibly believe Jesus Christ knew His mission when he was sucking His thumb. He grew up and there came a day He learned of His mission, little by little, and through revelation (obviously). I believe Isaiah (which he read aloud to the people when He was beginning His ministry) helped Him come to understand His mission. The verses about the concealed servant of God... so concealed, He would be rejected by so many. Yet God (Heavenly Father) did choose Him.

I encourage you to read my post before you respond. I think I make a pretty good case here.

[mmm..cheese]

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

5 ¶ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

...

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 ¶ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

...

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

100% about Jesus Christ

....

25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

26 ¶ Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.

28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

29 ¶ And when they had plaited a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,

34 ¶ They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

36 And sitting down they watched him there;

37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

38 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

39 ¶ And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads,

40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,

42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a sponge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


This was all what happened with Jesus Christ. Thank about how amazing these Scriptures actually are... at the time this happened Jesus was just another man like you and me (in the eyes of everyone). It was during that time the events began to occur that would make Him the legend that we know today. Even the Apostles were forsaking Him at various times at this point.. denying Him... other things.


All of these are about Jesus Christ, I would say. Read them and understand them as they are read, I would say.

[Alaris]

I will let you know something about me. I am a very left-brained individual and I am not emotional when it comes to discussing these doctrines. I do not have a strong desire to prove a point about something I identify with. Whatever is true is all there is and I accept whatever is true and move on with my life without a second thought about it.

What source are you talking about? I have read about the Davidic Servant stuff and literally, it seems as if every book of Scripture is being cited to be used as evidence for the existence of a Davidic Servant that is like the John the Baptist who will be like a type of Christ. Maybe even a foreshadowing of the Second Coming. Like a modern day Enoch doing the things he did. I am not jealous for Christ at all (as he put it). If I was, I wouldn't have converted to Mormonism, don't you think?

The source I'm referring to is God. James 1:5, Moroni 10:3-5. May I suggest that there is something to this that is niggling at you and perhaps that is why you are taking a deeper look. I can't imagine undertaking this shift in understanding from a left-brain approach. I, personally, never would have been able to. My personal journey started with God whispering just a few words to me. The first experience I had was a confirmation the Davidic Servant was real. You'll hear folks knock the term, but as this servant's identity is hidden (just as not-coincidentally the Angel of the LORD and the Holy Ghost's names are hidden) the term "Davidic" refers to the Davidic covenant and the Davidic line. Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith prays for this line - not for Judah specifically, but the Davidic lineage.

Joseph Smith clearly taught of this mortal individual, yet many still shoehorn this quote into meaning Jesus Christ:

"the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)

"I don't know who that is! That makes me uncomfortable! Let's make it about Jesus or Joseph Smith - comfort zone secured."

D&C 109:62 We therefore ask thee to have mercy upon the children of Jacob, that Jerusalem, from this hour, may begin to be redeemed;
63 And the yoke of bondage may begin to be broken off from the house of David;
64 And the children of Judah may begin to return to the lands which thou didst give to Abraham, their father.

So let's left-brain this for a moment. What is the yoke of bondage from the house of David? Judah is not the House of David. The next verse clearly distinguishes Judah from the house of David. Obviously verse 64 was fulfilled - but notice how it all traces back to Abraham. Why not Noah. I realize it's the Abrahamic covenant - but why Abraham? Why not Noah, or Enoch, or Adam?

You'll notice in the following section - 110 - that Moses appears with the keys to the gathering of Israel, Elias appears with the keys to the dispensation of Abraham, and Elijah appears with the sealing power and he labels all of the above of these keys thusly:

D&C 110:16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

What is "this dispensation?" Well let's look at what was restored - Moses, Elias, and Elijah. The furthest trace back here is Abraham as Elias represents Abraham. And why Elias? Who is Elias? I wrote about this in another thread and in this article.

Elias will drive your left-brain crazy. He's a person, but he's not a person. It's a spirit and power like an office, but Jesus referred to John as Elias (Greek iteration of Elijah) - but both Elias and Elijah appeared to Joseph Smith. I believe the Bible Dictionary (iirc) says Elias must have been a prophet in Abraham's day. Um OK? Why does he have to be a prophet of Abraham's day? The Apocalypse of Abraham has an angel named Jaoel who appears to Abraham and tells him he is set over him and his posterity - and the Apocalypse ends with a prophecy about the Elect One "coincidentally."

I submit to you that Elias is supposed to drive your left-brain crazy. This is an esoteric revelation that must be sought by non-left-brain means. Once received, only then will the left-brain be satisfied.

Back to the left-brain (for now:) Why do all the covenants in Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. always refer to Israel and the sons of Jacob / Israel? Why not Noah? Certainly Noah makes more sense. Why not Enoch or Adam? Why didn't Noah, Enoch, and Adam appear to Joseph Smith before Elijah declared the keys of "this generation?" Left-brain answer - because Abraham is the beginning of the dispensation that ends with us.

I actually think while that is an interesting idea - the Father of us all is glorified in His Servant, Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ speaks in Isaiah (as the God of the Old Testament) He can very well be speaking the words of His Father. Jesus Christ is the humble servant of our Father. He is the annointed heir. Neo in the matrix is based off the man Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ that is going to cause every person who has ever laughed at the resurrection to have their mouths stopped. He is the one who is like an arrow and and sharped sword. I feel that by reading the Messianic prophecies of Isaiah you can learn more about Jesus Christ - the things not spoken of in the Gospels.

You're right! He could very well be speaking the words of the Father, but if He were it would be referring to the God who was and not the God who is or the God who is to come.

Revekation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

There is a pattern that is repeated. I believe wholeheartedly that as the Davidic Servant comes to light we will know so much more about this process - the same process Jesus and the Father undertake / undertook.

The prophecies of Isaiah are a duality. The times, countries, and people of Isaiah's day are used to prophesy of the end times countries and peoples. The prophecies of the Davidic Servant are overlaid in the duality of Christ and His anointed. Take Psalm 2 for example:

Psalm 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord (YHWH), and against his anointed, saying.

Sure, this could be Jehovah speaking about Himself at His father's behest. Or, you could look at this from the left-brain perspective and read it exactly for what it is.

If you really want to discover this for yourself, I suggest starting with a prayer and asking God to show you the truth - whatever it may be - and start reading through Isaiah starting at chapter 39. As you approach chapter 53 you'll see this messianic person is not perfect. Left-brain disqualifier of Jesus Christ. And once you realize that all these prophecies that many attribute to Christ are overlaid and focused upon His servant, the beauty and splendor of a perfect being spotlighting His heir - His anointed - rather than Himself will cause you to cry tears of joy. Of course! The testator delivers the message of Jehovah to the prophets - it is the imperfect being who is actually "speaking" more of himself at Jehovah's loving command.

Have you not ever wondered - How did the baby in a manger ever grow up to become a teenager with a close relationship with God, studying the Scriptures of Isaiah closely, come to line by line, precept by precept, understanding through faith that he was the Chosen Servant of God. The Heir of God's kingdom and the embodiment of the salvation of all mankind. And as He learned more He would come to realize that He was the rightful heir to King David's throne. And then further come to know that He would be rejected by the large majority of His own people and be murdered, but like Abraham and believed in God and trusted God to raise up his only son Isaac - the young Jesus learned that He would Himself be resurrected and be like unto God at His own right hand and appear to many.

Yes! I still wonder how much He was subjected to the veil at the end. How much doubt was left in His mind as the cup was presented to Him? He may have thought the prophecies of Isaiah were about Him exclusively at first. Certainly, He learned by the time He taught His disciples of the Comforter:

Isaiah 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Even this scripture takes on new meaning:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you (restore) all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Davidic Servant of Isaiah restores Israel to their God - plants in their hearts their true identities and who they are to God and where they are on their eternal progression.

Here you have a link by Jesus from the Comforter to the Davidic Servant of Isaiah:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

This is barely encoded and yet so few have concluded that the Davidic Servant is the Holy Ghost.

D&C 113:3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.

Notice, he is a descendant of Jesse - not Judah, and Ephraim not Joseph. Who is Ephraim and Jesse - the two birthrights. He joins them together as he restores Israel. Simple left-brainism.

The verses of Isaiah have some hidden treasures in them, I think. You just have to realize who they are speaking about.

Jesus has an amazing story that most people do not know about. I would desire to know THAT story.

If in fact there is a forerunner to the return of Christ (which surely there is, ever heard of the two witnesses? - on a side note the two witnesses could be a representation of the idea of a literal Father and a Son Godhead, a symbolic representation of the truth of the Son of God... this is DEFINITELY speculation and not important at all) then it will likely be something we will easily be able to see and understand, as people who have already received the Gospel. The huge majority of Earth has not received the Gospel and are lost at this point in time lying in sin. If you compare that to the Church and the covenants we have - it is a huge deal. We have a great opportunity in the Church to move towards exaltation.

Moses and Aaron represent Jehovah and the Angel of the LORD. He tells Moses that he (Moses) will be to Aaron in place of God and Aaron will be in place of his mouth. The Angel of the LORD is also referred to as the Mouth of the LORD. This is the testator.

Caleb and Joshua represent the tribes of Ephraim and Judah when they approach the promised land for the first time - they represent the two birthrights. Their first entering ties directly to the last ending. The seven circles around Jericho and the seven circles on the seventh day with seven trumps all tie to Revelation.

The greatest among us have small beginnings.. you cannot possibly believe Jesus Christ knew His mission when he was sucking His thumb. He grew up and there came a day He learned of His mission, little by little, and through revelation (obviously). I believe Isaiah (which he read aloud to the people when He was beginning His ministry) helped Him come to understand His mission. The verses about the concealed servant of God... so concealed, He would be rejected by so many. Yet God (Heavenly Father) did choose Him.

I encourage you to read my post before you respond. I think I make a pretty good case here.

I agree. He had to puzzle it out for Himself. He learned line upon line as we do. However, if you skip a few lines out of order you may become completely derailed as those later lines may seemingly contradict the former when they don't.

And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of
old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all
things pertaining to my kingdom. Yea, even the wonders of eternity shall they know, and things to
come will I show them, even the things of many generations. And their wisdom shall be great, and their
understanding reach to heaven; and before them the wisdom of the wise shall perish, and the understanding
of the prudent shall come to naught. For by my Spirit will I enlighten them, and by my power will I make
known unto them the secrets of my will—yea, even those things which eye has not seen, nor ear
heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man. (D&C 76:7-10)

But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed
unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion; Which he commanded us
we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; Neither is man
capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy
Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; To whom he
grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves; (D&C 76:114-117)

Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid
up because of unbelief. Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you
how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not
come unto you, because of unbelief.
Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of
wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things
which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the
Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath
remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel. And then shall my
revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the
people. (Ether 4:13-16)

And most importantly:

“It is the privilege of the Children of God to come to God & get Revelation…When any person
receives a vision of Heaven, he sees things that he never thought of before… any person that believes
the works I do shall he do also & greater works. The Father could not be glorified in the Son on any other
principle than we coming to God, asking, receiving, heavens open visions &c.— They are done away
because of unbelief—” (The Words of Joseph Smith, pg. 13-14)

We have the witnesses of the perfect being who came down in the role of Son and became a Father - who testified of the Father, having received directly from the Father and doing the works the Father did. The God who is and the God who was. All that remains is the revelation of the God who is to come.

[simpleton]

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

5 ¶ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

...

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 ¶ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

...

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

100% about Jesus Christ

....

25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

26 ¶ Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.

28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

29 ¶ And when they had plaited a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,

34 ¶ They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

36 And sitting down they watched him there;

37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

38 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

39 ¶ And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads,

40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,

42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a sponge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


This was all what happened with Jesus Christ. Thank about how amazing these Scriptures actually are... at the time this happened Jesus was just another man like you and me (in the eyes of everyone). It was during that time the events began to occur that would make Him the legend that we know today. Even the Apostles were forsaking Him at various times at this point.. denying Him... other things.


All of these are about Jesus Christ, I would say. Read them and understand them as they are read, I would say.

I say there about Jesus and also He is talking to and about His Servant

[Alaris]

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Israel is a reference to the birthright and dominion here of the Davidic Servant (See final verses of Ezekiel 37) - Jesus' birthright and dominion is much, much larger.

4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

5 ¶ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

The duality of these verses of the LORD (YHWH) and His heir is overlaid carefully. Jesus restores them spiritually through the Atonement. The Davidic Servant restores them temporally in the end times - spiritually as well obviously as he restores their knowledge of God including who they are and who God is to them (See Revelation 2 & 3 and how the Lord introduces Himself differently to each church / class of mankind.)

Verse 7 who is the Holy One of Israel? Jehovah. Jehovah shall choose thee - who is thee? The servant.

...

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Read Leviticus 16. There are two goats on Yom Kippur. The goat "For Jehovah" is sacrificed. The goat "For Azazel" is cut off from promised land. Another duality / overlay beautifully encoded.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 ¶ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

The second goat "For Azazel" bears the iniquities. This may have something to do with the process of "sanctification" which is carried out by the Holy Ghost - through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

...

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

100% about Jesus Christ
....

25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

26 ¶ Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.

28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

29 ¶ And when they had plaited a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,

34 ¶ They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

36 And sitting down they watched him there;

37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

38 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

39 ¶ And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads,

40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,

42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a sponge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


This was all what happened with Jesus Christ. Thank about how amazing these Scriptures actually are... at the time this happened Jesus was just another man like you and me (in the eyes of everyone). It was during that time the events began to occur that would make Him the legend that we know today. Even the Apostles were forsaking Him at various times at this point.. denying Him... other things.


All of these are about Jesus Christ, I would say. Read them and understand them as they are read, I would say.

Once you realize that Jesus didn't just condescend to our world but to a sub dominion (Davidic Servant /Israel) of a sub dominion (Michael / Earth) and to the least of the covenant people (Judah) you'll realize just how far He condescended as a perfect being who gathers His own down the very least of them. This is what the dual birthright represents. Eprhaim receives the double portion (D&C 133) and Judah receives double for all her sins.

Genesis 48:20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
21 And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.
22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

Isaiah 40:2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.

D&C 133:34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.
35 And they also of the tribe of Judah, after their pain, shall be sanctified in holiness before the Lord, to dwell in his presence day and night, forever and ever.

Who sanctifies?

And when the Holy Ghost goes on to tell his apostles, "I'm only doing what I have seen the Father do," this is to what he will be referring.

Joseph Smith (President)

But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

Franklin D. Richards (First Presidency)

Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized)

[mmm..cheese]

I will let you know something about me. I am a very left-brained individual and I am not emotional when it comes to discussing these doctrines. I do not have a strong desire to prove a point about something I identify with. Whatever is true is all there is and I accept whatever is true and move on with my life without a second thought about it.

What source are you talking about? I have read about the Davidic Servant stuff and literally, it seems as if every book of Scripture is being cited to be used as evidence for the existence of a Davidic Servant that is like the John the Baptist who will be like a type of Christ. Maybe even a foreshadowing of the Second Coming. Like a modern day Enoch doing the things he did. I am not jealous for Christ at all (as he put it). If I was, I wouldn't have converted to Mormonism, don't you think?

The source I'm referring to is God. James 1:5, Moroni 10:3-5. May I suggest that there is something to this that is niggling at you and perhaps that is why you are taking a deeper look. I can't imagine undertaking this shift in understanding from a left-brain approach. I, personally, never would have been able to. My personal journey started with God whispering just a few words to me. The first experience I had was a confirmation the Davidic Servant was real. You'll hear folks knock the term, but as this servant's identity is hidden (just as not-coincidentally the Angel of the LORD and the Holy Ghost's names are hidden) the term "Davidic" refers to the Davidic covenant and the Davidic line. Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith prays for this line - not for Judah specifically, but the Davidic lineage.

Joseph Smith clearly taught of this mortal individual, yet many still shoehorn this quote into meaning Jesus Christ:

"the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)

"I don't know who that is! That makes me uncomfortable! Let's make it about Jesus or Joseph Smith - comfort zone secured."

D&C 109:62 We therefore ask thee to have mercy upon the children of Jacob, that Jerusalem, from this hour, may begin to be redeemed;
63 And the yoke of bondage may begin to be broken off from the house of David;
64 And the children of Judah may begin to return to the lands which thou didst give to Abraham, their father.

So let's left-brain this for a moment. What is the yoke of bondage from the house of David? Judah is not the House of David. The next verse clearly distinguishes Judah from the house of David. Obviously verse 64 was fulfilled - but notice how it all traces back to Abraham. Why not Noah. I realize it's the Abrahamic covenant - but why Abraham? Why not Noah, or Enoch, or Adam?

You'll notice in the following section - 110 - that Moses appears with the keys to the gathering of Israel, Elias appears with the keys to the dispensation of Abraham, and Elijah appears with the sealing power and he labels all of the above of these keys thusly:

D&C 110:16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

What is "this dispensation?" Well let's look at what was restored - Moses, Elias, and Elijah. The furthest trace back here is Abraham as Elias represents Abraham. And why Elias? Who is Elias? I wrote about this in another thread and in this article.

Elias will drive your left-brain crazy. He's a person, but he's not a person. It's a spirit and power like an office, but Jesus referred to John as Elias (Greek iteration of Elijah) - but both Elias and Elijah appeared to Joseph Smith. I believe the Bible Dictionary (iirc) says Elias must have been a prophet in Abraham's day. Um OK? Why does he have to be a prophet of Abraham's day? The Apocalypse of Abraham has an angel named Jaoel who appears to Abraham and tells him he is set over him and his posterity - and the Apocalypse ends with a prophecy about the Elect One "coincidentally."

I submit to you that Elias is supposed to drive your left-brain crazy. This is an esoteric revelation that must be sought by non-left-brain means. Once received, only then will the left-brain be satisfied.

Back to the left-brain (for now:) Why do all the covenants in Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. always refer to Israel and the sons of Jacob / Israel? Why not Noah? Certainly Noah makes more sense. Why not Enoch or Adam? Why didn't Noah, Enoch, and Adam appear to Joseph Smith before Elijah declared the keys of "this generation?" Left-brain answer - because Abraham is the beginning of the dispensation that ends with us.

I actually think while that is an interesting idea - the Father of us all is glorified in His Servant, Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ speaks in Isaiah (as the God of the Old Testament) He can very well be speaking the words of His Father. Jesus Christ is the humble servant of our Father. He is the annointed heir. Neo in the matrix is based off the man Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ that is going to cause every person who has ever laughed at the resurrection to have their mouths stopped. He is the one who is like an arrow and and sharped sword. I feel that by reading the Messianic prophecies of Isaiah you can learn more about Jesus Christ - the things not spoken of in the Gospels.

You're right! He could very well be speaking the words of the Father, but if He were it would be referring to the God who was and not the God who is or the God who is to come.

Revekation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

There is a pattern that is repeated. I believe wholeheartedly that as the Davidic Servant comes to light we will know so much more about this process - the same process Jesus and the Father undertake / undertook.

The prophecies of Isaiah are a duality. The times, countries, and people of Isaiah's day are used to prophesy of the end times countries and peoples. The prophecies of the Davidic Servant are overlaid in the duality of Christ and His anointed. Take Psalm 2 for example:

Psalm 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord (YHWH), and against his anointed, saying.

Sure, this could be Jehovah speaking about Himself at His father's behest. Or, you could look at this from the left-brain perspective and read it exactly for what it is.

If you really want to discover this for yourself, I suggest starting with a prayer and asking God to show you the truth - whatever it may be - and start reading through Isaiah starting at chapter 39. As you approach chapter 53 you'll see this messianic person is not perfect. Left-brain disqualifier of Jesus Christ. And once you realize that all these prophecies that many attribute to Christ are overlaid and focused upon His servant, the beauty and splendor of a perfect being spotlighting His heir - His anointed - rather than Himself will cause you to cry tears of joy. Of course! The testator delivers the message of Jehovah to the prophets - it is the imperfect being who is actually "speaking" more of himself at Jehovah's loving command.

Have you not ever wondered - How did the baby in a manger ever grow up to become a teenager with a close relationship with God, studying the Scriptures of Isaiah closely, come to line by line, precept by precept, understanding through faith that he was the Chosen Servant of God. The Heir of God's kingdom and the embodiment of the salvation of all mankind. And as He learned more He would come to realize that He was the rightful heir to King David's throne. And then further come to know that He would be rejected by the large majority of His own people and be murdered, but like Abraham and believed in God and trusted God to raise up his only son Isaac - the young Jesus learned that He would Himself be resurrected and be like unto God at His own right hand and appear to many.

Yes! I still wonder how much He was subjected to the veil at the end. How much doubt was left in His mind as the cup was presented to Him? He may have thought the prophecies of Isaiah were about Him exclusively at first. Certainly, He learned by the time He taught His disciples of the Comforter:

Isaiah 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Even this scripture takes on new meaning:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you (restore) all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Davidic Servant of Isaiah restores Israel to their God - plants in their hearts their true identities and who they are to God and where they are on their eternal progression.

Here you have a link by Jesus from the Comforter to the Davidic Servant of Isaiah:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

This is barely encoded and yet so few have concluded that the Davidic Servant is the Holy Ghost.

D&C 113:3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.

Notice, he is a descendant of Jesse - not Judah, and Ephraim not Joseph. Who is Ephraim and Jesse - the two birthrights. He joins them together as he restores Israel. Simple left-brainism.

The verses of Isaiah have some hidden treasures in them, I think. You just have to realize who they are speaking about.

Jesus has an amazing story that most people do not know about. I would desire to know THAT story.

If in fact there is a forerunner to the return of Christ (which surely there is, ever heard of the two witnesses? - on a side note the two witnesses could be a representation of the idea of a literal Father and a Son Godhead, a symbolic representation of the truth of the Son of God... this is DEFINITELY speculation and not important at all) then it will likely be something we will easily be able to see and understand, as people who have already received the Gospel. The huge majority of Earth has not received the Gospel and are lost at this point in time lying in sin. If you compare that to the Church and the covenants we have - it is a huge deal. We have a great opportunity in the Church to move towards exaltation.

Moses and Aaron represent Jehovah and the Angel of the LORD. He tells Moses that he (Moses) will be to Aaron in place of God and Aaron will be in place of his mouth. The Angel of the LORD is also referred to as the Mouth of the LORD. This is the testator.

Caleb and Joshua represent the tribes of Ephraim and Judah when they approach the promised land for the first time - they represent the two birthrights. Their first entering ties directly to the last ending. The seven circles around Jericho and the seven circles on the seventh day with seven trumps all tie to Revelation.

The greatest among us have small beginnings.. you cannot possibly believe Jesus Christ knew His mission when he was sucking His thumb. He grew up and there came a day He learned of His mission, little by little, and through revelation (obviously). I believe Isaiah (which he read aloud to the people when He was beginning His ministry) helped Him come to understand His mission. The verses about the concealed servant of God... so concealed, He would be rejected by so many. Yet God (Heavenly Father) did choose Him.

I encourage you to read my post before you respond. I think I make a pretty good case here.

I agree. He had to puzzle it out for Himself. He learned line upon line as we do. However, if you skip a few lines out of order you may become completely derailed as those later lines may seemingly contradict the former when they don't.

And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of
old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all
things pertaining to my kingdom. Yea, even the wonders of eternity shall they know, and things to
come will I show them, even the things of many generations. And their wisdom shall be great, and their
understanding reach to heaven; and before them the wisdom of the wise shall perish, and the understanding
of the prudent shall come to naught. For by my Spirit will I enlighten them, and by my power will I make
known unto them the secrets of my will—yea, even those things which eye has not seen, nor ear
heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man. (D&C 76:7-10)

But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed
unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion; Which he commanded us
we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; Neither is man
capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy
Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; To whom he
grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves; (D&C 76:114-117)

Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid
up because of unbelief. Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you
how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not
come unto you, because of unbelief.
Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of
wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things
which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the
Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath
remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel. And then shall my
revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the
people. (Ether 4:13-16)

And most importantly:

“It is the privilege of the Children of God to come to God & get Revelation…When any person
receives a vision of Heaven, he sees things that he never thought of before… any person that believes
the works I do shall he do also & greater works. The Father could not be glorified in the Son on any other
principle than we coming to God, asking, receiving, heavens open visions &c.— They are done away
because of unbelief—” (The Words of Joseph Smith, pg. 13-14)

We have the witnesses of the perfect being who came down in the role of Son and became a Father - who testified of the Father, having received directly from the Father and doing the works the Father did. The God who is and the God who was. All that remains is the revelation of the God who is to come.

I take interest in this because when I joined the Church I had evil spirits shove this doctrine in my face in a way nobody would ever believe. I learned it in dreams and in physical manifestations. This was not the only thing. I literally had to just close off my mind to everything and just remember the first revelation - Jesus Christ is alive today and knows me and He appeared to Joseph Smith and the Church is true. There is beautiful simplicity in these statements. Evil spirits try so hard to introduce these ideas and I may never know why this happened when I joined the Church... there were so many signs, delusions, wonders, and dreams forcing these ideas at me. I do not think we are safe with these ideas. We can be putting ourselves at a strange risk. The Prophets need to speak about these things if they are true.

So do you believe the Davidic Servant is Elder Bednar (since it says David and all)?

I am uncomfortable with the entire idea and honestly.. I do not care that much to receive doctrinal revelations anymore. I have way too many evil spirits in my life. I am not even brave enough to do an endowment.

[mmm..cheese]

I will let you know something about me. I am a very left-brained individual and I am not emotional when it comes to discussing these doctrines. I do not have a strong desire to prove a point about something I identify with. Whatever is true is all there is and I accept whatever is true and move on with my life without a second thought about it.

What source are you talking about? I have read about the Davidic Servant stuff and literally, it seems as if every book of Scripture is being cited to be used as evidence for the existence of a Davidic Servant that is like the John the Baptist who will be like a type of Christ. Maybe even a foreshadowing of the Second Coming. Like a modern day Enoch doing the things he did. I am not jealous for Christ at all (as he put it). If I was, I wouldn't have converted to Mormonism, don't you think?

The source I'm referring to is God. James 1:5, Moroni 10:3-5. May I suggest that there is something to this that is niggling at you and perhaps that is why you are taking a deeper look. I can't imagine undertaking this shift in understanding from a left-brain approach. I, personally, never would have been able to. My personal journey started with God whispering just a few words to me. The first experience I had was a confirmation the Davidic Servant was real. You'll hear folks knock the term, but as this servant's identity is hidden (just as not-coincidentally the Angel of the LORD and the Holy Ghost's names are hidden) the term "Davidic" refers to the Davidic covenant and the Davidic line. Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith prays for this line - not for Judah specifically, but the Davidic lineage.

Joseph Smith clearly taught of this mortal individual, yet many still shoehorn this quote into meaning Jesus Christ:

"the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)

"I don't know who that is! That makes me uncomfortable! Let's make it about Jesus or Joseph Smith - comfort zone secured."

D&C 109:62 We therefore ask thee to have mercy upon the children of Jacob, that Jerusalem, from this hour, may begin to be redeemed;
63 And the yoke of bondage may begin to be broken off from the house of David;
64 And the children of Judah may begin to return to the lands which thou didst give to Abraham, their father.

So let's left-brain this for a moment. What is the yoke of bondage from the house of David? Judah is not the House of David. The next verse clearly distinguishes Judah from the house of David. Obviously verse 64 was fulfilled - but notice how it all traces back to Abraham. Why not Noah. I realize it's the Abrahamic covenant - but why Abraham? Why not Noah, or Enoch, or Adam?

You'll notice in the following section - 110 - that Moses appears with the keys to the gathering of Israel, Elias appears with the keys to the dispensation of Abraham, and Elijah appears with the sealing power and he labels all of the above of these keys thusly:

D&C 110:16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

What is "this dispensation?" Well let's look at what was restored - Moses, Elias, and Elijah. The furthest trace back here is Abraham as Elias represents Abraham. And why Elias? Who is Elias? I wrote about this in another thread and in this article.

Elias will drive your left-brain crazy. He's a person, but he's not a person. It's a spirit and power like an office, but Jesus referred to John as Elias (Greek iteration of Elijah) - but both Elias and Elijah appeared to Joseph Smith. I believe the Bible Dictionary (iirc) says Elias must have been a prophet in Abraham's day. Um OK? Why does he have to be a prophet of Abraham's day? The Apocalypse of Abraham has an angel named Jaoel who appears to Abraham and tells him he is set over him and his posterity - and the Apocalypse ends with a prophecy about the Elect One "coincidentally."

I submit to you that Elias is supposed to drive your left-brain crazy. This is an esoteric revelation that must be sought by non-left-brain means. Once received, only then will the left-brain be satisfied.

Back to the left-brain (for now:) Why do all the covenants in Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. always refer to Israel and the sons of Jacob / Israel? Why not Noah? Certainly Noah makes more sense. Why not Enoch or Adam? Why didn't Noah, Enoch, and Adam appear to Joseph Smith before Elijah declared the keys of "this generation?" Left-brain answer - because Abraham is the beginning of the dispensation that ends with us.

I actually think while that is an interesting idea - the Father of us all is glorified in His Servant, Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ speaks in Isaiah (as the God of the Old Testament) He can very well be speaking the words of His Father. Jesus Christ is the humble servant of our Father. He is the annointed heir. Neo in the matrix is based off the man Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ that is going to cause every person who has ever laughed at the resurrection to have their mouths stopped. He is the one who is like an arrow and and sharped sword. I feel that by reading the Messianic prophecies of Isaiah you can learn more about Jesus Christ - the things not spoken of in the Gospels.

You're right! He could very well be speaking the words of the Father, but if He were it would be referring to the God who was and not the God who is or the God who is to come.

Revekation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

There is a pattern that is repeated. I believe wholeheartedly that as the Davidic Servant comes to light we will know so much more about this process - the same process Jesus and the Father undertake / undertook.

The prophecies of Isaiah are a duality. The times, countries, and people of Isaiah's day are used to prophesy of the end times countries and peoples. The prophecies of the Davidic Servant are overlaid in the duality of Christ and His anointed. Take Psalm 2 for example:

Psalm 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord (YHWH), and against his anointed, saying.

Sure, this could be Jehovah speaking about Himself at His father's behest. Or, you could look at this from the left-brain perspective and read it exactly for what it is.

If you really want to discover this for yourself, I suggest starting with a prayer and asking God to show you the truth - whatever it may be - and start reading through Isaiah starting at chapter 39. As you approach chapter 53 you'll see this messianic person is not perfect. Left-brain disqualifier of Jesus Christ. And once you realize that all these prophecies that many attribute to Christ are overlaid and focused upon His servant, the beauty and splendor of a perfect being spotlighting His heir - His anointed - rather than Himself will cause you to cry tears of joy. Of course! The testator delivers the message of Jehovah to the prophets - it is the imperfect being who is actually "speaking" more of himself at Jehovah's loving command.

Have you not ever wondered - How did the baby in a manger ever grow up to become a teenager with a close relationship with God, studying the Scriptures of Isaiah closely, come to line by line, precept by precept, understanding through faith that he was the Chosen Servant of God. The Heir of God's kingdom and the embodiment of the salvation of all mankind. And as He learned more He would come to realize that He was the rightful heir to King David's throne. And then further come to know that He would be rejected by the large majority of His own people and be murdered, but like Abraham and believed in God and trusted God to raise up his only son Isaac - the young Jesus learned that He would Himself be resurrected and be like unto God at His own right hand and appear to many.

Yes! I still wonder how much He was subjected to the veil at the end. How much doubt was left in His mind as the cup was presented to Him? He may have thought the prophecies of Isaiah were about Him exclusively at first. Certainly, He learned by the time He taught His disciples of the Comforter:

Isaiah 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Even this scripture takes on new meaning:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you (restore) all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Davidic Servant of Isaiah restores Israel to their God - plants in their hearts their true identities and who they are to God and where they are on their eternal progression.

Here you have a link by Jesus from the Comforter to the Davidic Servant of Isaiah:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

This is barely encoded and yet so few have concluded that the Davidic Servant is the Holy Ghost.

D&C 113:3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.

Notice, he is a descendant of Jesse - not Judah, and Ephraim not Joseph. Who is Ephraim and Jesse - the two birthrights. He joins them together as he restores Israel. Simple left-brainism.

The verses of Isaiah have some hidden treasures in them, I think. You just have to realize who they are speaking about.

Jesus has an amazing story that most people do not know about. I would desire to know THAT story.

If in fact there is a forerunner to the return of Christ (which surely there is, ever heard of the two witnesses? - on a side note the two witnesses could be a representation of the idea of a literal Father and a Son Godhead, a symbolic representation of the truth of the Son of God... this is DEFINITELY speculation and not important at all) then it will likely be something we will easily be able to see and understand, as people who have already received the Gospel. The huge majority of Earth has not received the Gospel and are lost at this point in time lying in sin. If you compare that to the Church and the covenants we have - it is a huge deal. We have a great opportunity in the Church to move towards exaltation.

Moses and Aaron represent Jehovah and the Angel of the LORD. He tells Moses that he (Moses) will be to Aaron in place of God and Aaron will be in place of his mouth. The Angel of the LORD is also referred to as the Mouth of the LORD. This is the testator.

Caleb and Joshua represent the tribes of Ephraim and Judah when they approach the promised land for the first time - they represent the two birthrights. Their first entering ties directly to the last ending. The seven circles around Jericho and the seven circles on the seventh day with seven trumps all tie to Revelation.

The greatest among us have small beginnings.. you cannot possibly believe Jesus Christ knew His mission when he was sucking His thumb. He grew up and there came a day He learned of His mission, little by little, and through revelation (obviously). I believe Isaiah (which he read aloud to the people when He was beginning His ministry) helped Him come to understand His mission. The verses about the concealed servant of God... so concealed, He would be rejected by so many. Yet God (Heavenly Father) did choose Him.

I encourage you to read my post before you respond. I think I make a pretty good case here.

I agree. He had to puzzle it out for Himself. He learned line upon line as we do. However, if you skip a few lines out of order you may become completely derailed as those later lines may seemingly contradict the former when they don't.

And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of
old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all
things pertaining to my kingdom. Yea, even the wonders of eternity shall they know, and things to
come will I show them, even the things of many generations. And their wisdom shall be great, and their
understanding reach to heaven; and before them the wisdom of the wise shall perish, and the understanding
of the prudent shall come to naught. For by my Spirit will I enlighten them, and by my power will I make
known unto them the secrets of my will—yea, even those things which eye has not seen, nor ear
heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man. (D&C 76:7-10)

But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed
unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion; Which he commanded us
we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; Neither is man
capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy
Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; To whom he
grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves; (D&C 76:114-117)

Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid
up because of unbelief. Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you
how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not
come unto you, because of unbelief.
Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of
wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things
which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the
Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath
remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel. And then shall my
revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the
people. (Ether 4:13-16)

And most importantly:

“It is the privilege of the Children of God to come to God & get Revelation…When any person
receives a vision of Heaven, he sees things that he never thought of before… any person that believes
the works I do shall he do also & greater works. The Father could not be glorified in the Son on any other
principle than we coming to God, asking, receiving, heavens open visions &c.— They are done away
because of unbelief—” (The Words of Joseph Smith, pg. 13-14)

We have the witnesses of the perfect being who came down in the role of Son and became a Father - who testified of the Father, having received directly from the Father and doing the works the Father did. The God who is and the God who was. All that remains is the revelation of the God who is to come.

I take interest in this because when I joined the Church I had evil spirits shove this doctrine in my face in a way nobody would ever believe. I learned it in dreams and in physical manifestations. This was not the only thing. I literally had to just close off my mind to everything and just remember the first revelation - Jesus Christ is alive today and knows me and He appeared to Joseph Smith and the Church is true. There is beautiful simplicity in these statements. Evil spirits try so hard to introduce these ideas and I may never know why this happened when I joined the Church... there were so many signs, delusions, wonders, and dreams forcing these ideas at me. I do not think we are safe with these ideas. We can be putting ourselves at a strange risk. The Prophets need to speak about these things if they are true.

So do you believe the Davidic Servant is Elder Bednar (since it says David and all)?

I am uncomfortable with the entire idea and honestly.. I do not care that much to receive doctrinal revelations anymore. I have way too many evil spirits in my life. I am not even brave enough to do an endowment.