Gileadi on Elias

[Alaris]

I will let you know something about me. I am a very left-brained individual and I am not emotional when it comes to discussing these doctrines. I do not have a strong desire to prove a point about something I identify with. Whatever is true is all there is and I accept whatever is true and move on with my life without a second thought about it.

What source are you talking about? I have read about the Davidic Servant stuff and literally, it seems as if every book of Scripture is being cited to be used as evidence for the existence of a Davidic Servant that is like the John the Baptist who will be like a type of Christ. Maybe even a foreshadowing of the Second Coming. Like a modern day Enoch doing the things he did. I am not jealous for Christ at all (as he put it). If I was, I wouldn't have converted to Mormonism, don't you think?

The source I'm referring to is God. James 1:5, Moroni 10:3-5. May I suggest that there is something to this that is niggling at you and perhaps that is why you are taking a deeper look. I can't imagine undertaking this shift in understanding from a left-brain approach. I, personally, never would have been able to. My personal journey started with God whispering just a few words to me. The first experience I had was a confirmation the Davidic Servant was real. You'll hear folks knock the term, but as this servant's identity is hidden (just as not-coincidentally the Angel of the LORD and the Holy Ghost's names are hidden) the term "Davidic" refers to the Davidic covenant and the Davidic line. Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith prays for this line - not for Judah specifically, but the Davidic lineage.

Joseph Smith clearly taught of this mortal individual, yet many still shoehorn this quote into meaning Jesus Christ:

"the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)

"I don't know who that is! That makes me uncomfortable! Let's make it about Jesus or Joseph Smith - comfort zone secured."

D&C 109:62 We therefore ask thee to have mercy upon the children of Jacob, that Jerusalem, from this hour, may begin to be redeemed;
63 And the yoke of bondage may begin to be broken off from the house of David;
64 And the children of Judah may begin to return to the lands which thou didst give to Abraham, their father.

So let's left-brain this for a moment. What is the yoke of bondage from the house of David? Judah is not the House of David. The next verse clearly distinguishes Judah from the house of David. Obviously verse 64 was fulfilled - but notice how it all traces back to Abraham. Why not Noah. I realize it's the Abrahamic covenant - but why Abraham? Why not Noah, or Enoch, or Adam?

You'll notice in the following section - 110 - that Moses appears with the keys to the gathering of Israel, Elias appears with the keys to the dispensation of Abraham, and Elijah appears with the sealing power and he labels all of the above of these keys thusly:

D&C 110:16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

What is "this dispensation?" Well let's look at what was restored - Moses, Elias, and Elijah. The furthest trace back here is Abraham as Elias represents Abraham. And why Elias? Who is Elias? I wrote about this in another thread and in this article.

Elias will drive your left-brain crazy. He's a person, but he's not a person. It's a spirit and power like an office, but Jesus referred to John as Elias (Greek iteration of Elijah) - but both Elias and Elijah appeared to Joseph Smith. I believe the Bible Dictionary (iirc) says Elias must have been a prophet in Abraham's day. Um OK? Why does he have to be a prophet of Abraham's day? The Apocalypse of Abraham has an angel named Jaoel who appears to Abraham and tells him he is set over him and his posterity - and the Apocalypse ends with a prophecy about the Elect One "coincidentally."

I submit to you that Elias is supposed to drive your left-brain crazy. This is an esoteric revelation that must be sought by non-left-brain means. Once received, only then will the left-brain be satisfied.

Back to the left-brain (for now:) Why do all the covenants in Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. always refer to Israel and the sons of Jacob / Israel? Why not Noah? Certainly Noah makes more sense. Why not Enoch or Adam? Why didn't Noah, Enoch, and Adam appear to Joseph Smith before Elijah declared the keys of "this generation?" Left-brain answer - because Abraham is the beginning of the dispensation that ends with us.

I actually think while that is an interesting idea - the Father of us all is glorified in His Servant, Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ speaks in Isaiah (as the God of the Old Testament) He can very well be speaking the words of His Father. Jesus Christ is the humble servant of our Father. He is the annointed heir. Neo in the matrix is based off the man Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ that is going to cause every person who has ever laughed at the resurrection to have their mouths stopped. He is the one who is like an arrow and and sharped sword. I feel that by reading the Messianic prophecies of Isaiah you can learn more about Jesus Christ - the things not spoken of in the Gospels.

You're right! He could very well be speaking the words of the Father, but if He were it would be referring to the God who was and not the God who is or the God who is to come.

Revekation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

There is a pattern that is repeated. I believe wholeheartedly that as the Davidic Servant comes to light we will know so much more about this process - the same process Jesus and the Father undertake / undertook.

The prophecies of Isaiah are a duality. The times, countries, and people of Isaiah's day are used to prophesy of the end times countries and peoples. The prophecies of the Davidic Servant are overlaid in the duality of Christ and His anointed. Take Psalm 2 for example:

Psalm 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord (YHWH), and against his anointed, saying.

Sure, this could be Jehovah speaking about Himself at His father's behest. Or, you could look at this from the left-brain perspective and read it exactly for what it is.

If you really want to discover this for yourself, I suggest starting with a prayer and asking God to show you the truth - whatever it may be - and start reading through Isaiah starting at chapter 39. As you approach chapter 53 you'll see this messianic person is not perfect. Left-brain disqualifier of Jesus Christ. And once you realize that all these prophecies that many attribute to Christ are overlaid and focused upon His servant, the beauty and splendor of a perfect being spotlighting His heir - His anointed - rather than Himself will cause you to cry tears of joy. Of course! The testator delivers the message of Jehovah to the prophets - it is the imperfect being who is actually "speaking" more of himself at Jehovah's loving command.

Have you not ever wondered - How did the baby in a manger ever grow up to become a teenager with a close relationship with God, studying the Scriptures of Isaiah closely, come to line by line, precept by precept, understanding through faith that he was the Chosen Servant of God. The Heir of God's kingdom and the embodiment of the salvation of all mankind. And as He learned more He would come to realize that He was the rightful heir to King David's throne. And then further come to know that He would be rejected by the large majority of His own people and be murdered, but like Abraham and believed in God and trusted God to raise up his only son Isaac - the young Jesus learned that He would Himself be resurrected and be like unto God at His own right hand and appear to many.

Yes! I still wonder how much He was subjected to the veil at the end. How much doubt was left in His mind as the cup was presented to Him? He may have thought the prophecies of Isaiah were about Him exclusively at first. Certainly, He learned by the time He taught His disciples of the Comforter:

Isaiah 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Even this scripture takes on new meaning:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you (restore) all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Davidic Servant of Isaiah restores Israel to their God - plants in their hearts their true identities and who they are to God and where they are on their eternal progression.

Here you have a link by Jesus from the Comforter to the Davidic Servant of Isaiah:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

This is barely encoded and yet so few have concluded that the Davidic Servant is the Holy Ghost.

D&C 113:3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.

Notice, he is a descendant of Jesse - not Judah, and Ephraim not Joseph. Who is Ephraim and Jesse - the two birthrights. He joins them together as he restores Israel. Simple left-brainism.

The verses of Isaiah have some hidden treasures in them, I think. You just have to realize who they are speaking about.

Jesus has an amazing story that most people do not know about. I would desire to know THAT story.

If in fact there is a forerunner to the return of Christ (which surely there is, ever heard of the two witnesses? - on a side note the two witnesses could be a representation of the idea of a literal Father and a Son Godhead, a symbolic representation of the truth of the Son of God... this is DEFINITELY speculation and not important at all) then it will likely be something we will easily be able to see and understand, as people who have already received the Gospel. The huge majority of Earth has not received the Gospel and are lost at this point in time lying in sin. If you compare that to the Church and the covenants we have - it is a huge deal. We have a great opportunity in the Church to move towards exaltation.

Moses and Aaron represent Jehovah and the Angel of the LORD. He tells Moses that he (Moses) will be to Aaron in place of God and Aaron will be in place of his mouth. The Angel of the LORD is also referred to as the Mouth of the LORD. This is the testator.

Caleb and Joshua represent the tribes of Ephraim and Judah when they approach the promised land for the first time - they represent the two birthrights. Their first entering ties directly to the last ending. The seven circles around Jericho and the seven circles on the seventh day with seven trumps all tie to Revelation.

The greatest among us have small beginnings.. you cannot possibly believe Jesus Christ knew His mission when he was sucking His thumb. He grew up and there came a day He learned of His mission, little by little, and through revelation (obviously). I believe Isaiah (which he read aloud to the people when He was beginning His ministry) helped Him come to understand His mission. The verses about the concealed servant of God... so concealed, He would be rejected by so many. Yet God (Heavenly Father) did choose Him.

I encourage you to read my post before you respond. I think I make a pretty good case here.

I agree. He had to puzzle it out for Himself. He learned line upon line as we do. However, if you skip a few lines out of order you may become completely derailed as those later lines may seemingly contradict the former when they don't.

And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of
old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all
things pertaining to my kingdom. Yea, even the wonders of eternity shall they know, and things to
come will I show them, even the things of many generations. And their wisdom shall be great, and their
understanding reach to heaven; and before them the wisdom of the wise shall perish, and the understanding
of the prudent shall come to naught. For by my Spirit will I enlighten them, and by my power will I make
known unto them the secrets of my will—yea, even those things which eye has not seen, nor ear
heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man. (D&C 76:7-10)

But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed
unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion; Which he commanded us
we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; Neither is man
capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy
Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; To whom he
grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves; (D&C 76:114-117)

Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid
up because of unbelief. Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you
how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not
come unto you, because of unbelief.
Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of
wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things
which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the
Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath
remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel. And then shall my
revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the
people. (Ether 4:13-16)

And most importantly:

“It is the privilege of the Children of God to come to God & get Revelation…When any person
receives a vision of Heaven, he sees things that he never thought of before… any person that believes
the works I do shall he do also & greater works. The Father could not be glorified in the Son on any other
principle than we coming to God, asking, receiving, heavens open visions &c.— They are done away
because of unbelief—” (The Words of Joseph Smith, pg. 13-14)

We have the witnesses of the perfect being who came down in the role of Son and became a Father - who testified of the Father, having received directly from the Father and doing the works the Father did. The God who is and the God who was. All that remains is the revelation of the God who is to come.

[simpleton]

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

5 ¶ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

...

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 ¶ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

...

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

100% about Jesus Christ

....

25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

26 ¶ Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.

28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

29 ¶ And when they had plaited a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,

34 ¶ They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

36 And sitting down they watched him there;

37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

38 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

39 ¶ And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads,

40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,

42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a sponge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


This was all what happened with Jesus Christ. Thank about how amazing these Scriptures actually are... at the time this happened Jesus was just another man like you and me (in the eyes of everyone). It was during that time the events began to occur that would make Him the legend that we know today. Even the Apostles were forsaking Him at various times at this point.. denying Him... other things.


All of these are about Jesus Christ, I would say. Read them and understand them as they are read, I would say.

I say there about Jesus and also He is talking to and about His Servant

[Alaris]

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Israel is a reference to the birthright and dominion here of the Davidic Servant (See final verses of Ezekiel 37) - Jesus' birthright and dominion is much, much larger.

4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

5 ¶ And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

The duality of these verses of the LORD (YHWH) and His heir is overlaid carefully. Jesus restores them spiritually through the Atonement. The Davidic Servant restores them temporally in the end times - spiritually as well obviously as he restores their knowledge of God including who they are and who God is to them (See Revelation 2 & 3 and how the Lord introduces Himself differently to each church / class of mankind.)

Verse 7 who is the Holy One of Israel? Jehovah. Jehovah shall choose thee - who is thee? The servant.

...

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Read Leviticus 16. There are two goats on Yom Kippur. The goat "For Jehovah" is sacrificed. The goat "For Azazel" is cut off from promised land. Another duality / overlay beautifully encoded.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 ¶ Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

The second goat "For Azazel" bears the iniquities. This may have something to do with the process of "sanctification" which is carried out by the Holy Ghost - through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

...

1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

100% about Jesus Christ
....

25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

26 ¶ Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.

28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

29 ¶ And when they had plaited a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull,

34 ¶ They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

36 And sitting down they watched him there;

37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

38 Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.

39 ¶ And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads,

40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,

42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.

45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a sponge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


This was all what happened with Jesus Christ. Thank about how amazing these Scriptures actually are... at the time this happened Jesus was just another man like you and me (in the eyes of everyone). It was during that time the events began to occur that would make Him the legend that we know today. Even the Apostles were forsaking Him at various times at this point.. denying Him... other things.


All of these are about Jesus Christ, I would say. Read them and understand them as they are read, I would say.

Once you realize that Jesus didn't just condescend to our world but to a sub dominion (Davidic Servant /Israel) of a sub dominion (Michael / Earth) and to the least of the covenant people (Judah) you'll realize just how far He condescended as a perfect being who gathers His own down the very least of them. This is what the dual birthright represents. Eprhaim receives the double portion (D&C 133) and Judah receives double for all her sins.

Genesis 48:20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
21 And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.
22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

Isaiah 40:2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.

D&C 133:34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.
35 And they also of the tribe of Judah, after their pain, shall be sanctified in holiness before the Lord, to dwell in his presence day and night, forever and ever.

Who sanctifies?

And when the Holy Ghost goes on to tell his apostles, "I'm only doing what I have seen the Father do," this is to what he will be referring.

Joseph Smith (President)

But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized)

Franklin D. Richards (First Presidency)

Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized)

[mmm..cheese]

I will let you know something about me. I am a very left-brained individual and I am not emotional when it comes to discussing these doctrines. I do not have a strong desire to prove a point about something I identify with. Whatever is true is all there is and I accept whatever is true and move on with my life without a second thought about it.

What source are you talking about? I have read about the Davidic Servant stuff and literally, it seems as if every book of Scripture is being cited to be used as evidence for the existence of a Davidic Servant that is like the John the Baptist who will be like a type of Christ. Maybe even a foreshadowing of the Second Coming. Like a modern day Enoch doing the things he did. I am not jealous for Christ at all (as he put it). If I was, I wouldn't have converted to Mormonism, don't you think?

The source I'm referring to is God. James 1:5, Moroni 10:3-5. May I suggest that there is something to this that is niggling at you and perhaps that is why you are taking a deeper look. I can't imagine undertaking this shift in understanding from a left-brain approach. I, personally, never would have been able to. My personal journey started with God whispering just a few words to me. The first experience I had was a confirmation the Davidic Servant was real. You'll hear folks knock the term, but as this servant's identity is hidden (just as not-coincidentally the Angel of the LORD and the Holy Ghost's names are hidden) the term "Davidic" refers to the Davidic covenant and the Davidic line. Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith prays for this line - not for Judah specifically, but the Davidic lineage.

Joseph Smith clearly taught of this mortal individual, yet many still shoehorn this quote into meaning Jesus Christ:

"the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)

"I don't know who that is! That makes me uncomfortable! Let's make it about Jesus or Joseph Smith - comfort zone secured."

D&C 109:62 We therefore ask thee to have mercy upon the children of Jacob, that Jerusalem, from this hour, may begin to be redeemed;
63 And the yoke of bondage may begin to be broken off from the house of David;
64 And the children of Judah may begin to return to the lands which thou didst give to Abraham, their father.

So let's left-brain this for a moment. What is the yoke of bondage from the house of David? Judah is not the House of David. The next verse clearly distinguishes Judah from the house of David. Obviously verse 64 was fulfilled - but notice how it all traces back to Abraham. Why not Noah. I realize it's the Abrahamic covenant - but why Abraham? Why not Noah, or Enoch, or Adam?

You'll notice in the following section - 110 - that Moses appears with the keys to the gathering of Israel, Elias appears with the keys to the dispensation of Abraham, and Elijah appears with the sealing power and he labels all of the above of these keys thusly:

D&C 110:16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

What is "this dispensation?" Well let's look at what was restored - Moses, Elias, and Elijah. The furthest trace back here is Abraham as Elias represents Abraham. And why Elias? Who is Elias? I wrote about this in another thread and in this article.

Elias will drive your left-brain crazy. He's a person, but he's not a person. It's a spirit and power like an office, but Jesus referred to John as Elias (Greek iteration of Elijah) - but both Elias and Elijah appeared to Joseph Smith. I believe the Bible Dictionary (iirc) says Elias must have been a prophet in Abraham's day. Um OK? Why does he have to be a prophet of Abraham's day? The Apocalypse of Abraham has an angel named Jaoel who appears to Abraham and tells him he is set over him and his posterity - and the Apocalypse ends with a prophecy about the Elect One "coincidentally."

I submit to you that Elias is supposed to drive your left-brain crazy. This is an esoteric revelation that must be sought by non-left-brain means. Once received, only then will the left-brain be satisfied.

Back to the left-brain (for now:) Why do all the covenants in Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. always refer to Israel and the sons of Jacob / Israel? Why not Noah? Certainly Noah makes more sense. Why not Enoch or Adam? Why didn't Noah, Enoch, and Adam appear to Joseph Smith before Elijah declared the keys of "this generation?" Left-brain answer - because Abraham is the beginning of the dispensation that ends with us.

I actually think while that is an interesting idea - the Father of us all is glorified in His Servant, Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ speaks in Isaiah (as the God of the Old Testament) He can very well be speaking the words of His Father. Jesus Christ is the humble servant of our Father. He is the annointed heir. Neo in the matrix is based off the man Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ that is going to cause every person who has ever laughed at the resurrection to have their mouths stopped. He is the one who is like an arrow and and sharped sword. I feel that by reading the Messianic prophecies of Isaiah you can learn more about Jesus Christ - the things not spoken of in the Gospels.

You're right! He could very well be speaking the words of the Father, but if He were it would be referring to the God who was and not the God who is or the God who is to come.

Revekation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

There is a pattern that is repeated. I believe wholeheartedly that as the Davidic Servant comes to light we will know so much more about this process - the same process Jesus and the Father undertake / undertook.

The prophecies of Isaiah are a duality. The times, countries, and people of Isaiah's day are used to prophesy of the end times countries and peoples. The prophecies of the Davidic Servant are overlaid in the duality of Christ and His anointed. Take Psalm 2 for example:

Psalm 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord (YHWH), and against his anointed, saying.

Sure, this could be Jehovah speaking about Himself at His father's behest. Or, you could look at this from the left-brain perspective and read it exactly for what it is.

If you really want to discover this for yourself, I suggest starting with a prayer and asking God to show you the truth - whatever it may be - and start reading through Isaiah starting at chapter 39. As you approach chapter 53 you'll see this messianic person is not perfect. Left-brain disqualifier of Jesus Christ. And once you realize that all these prophecies that many attribute to Christ are overlaid and focused upon His servant, the beauty and splendor of a perfect being spotlighting His heir - His anointed - rather than Himself will cause you to cry tears of joy. Of course! The testator delivers the message of Jehovah to the prophets - it is the imperfect being who is actually "speaking" more of himself at Jehovah's loving command.

Have you not ever wondered - How did the baby in a manger ever grow up to become a teenager with a close relationship with God, studying the Scriptures of Isaiah closely, come to line by line, precept by precept, understanding through faith that he was the Chosen Servant of God. The Heir of God's kingdom and the embodiment of the salvation of all mankind. And as He learned more He would come to realize that He was the rightful heir to King David's throne. And then further come to know that He would be rejected by the large majority of His own people and be murdered, but like Abraham and believed in God and trusted God to raise up his only son Isaac - the young Jesus learned that He would Himself be resurrected and be like unto God at His own right hand and appear to many.

Yes! I still wonder how much He was subjected to the veil at the end. How much doubt was left in His mind as the cup was presented to Him? He may have thought the prophecies of Isaiah were about Him exclusively at first. Certainly, He learned by the time He taught His disciples of the Comforter:

Isaiah 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Even this scripture takes on new meaning:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you (restore) all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Davidic Servant of Isaiah restores Israel to their God - plants in their hearts their true identities and who they are to God and where they are on their eternal progression.

Here you have a link by Jesus from the Comforter to the Davidic Servant of Isaiah:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

This is barely encoded and yet so few have concluded that the Davidic Servant is the Holy Ghost.

D&C 113:3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.

Notice, he is a descendant of Jesse - not Judah, and Ephraim not Joseph. Who is Ephraim and Jesse - the two birthrights. He joins them together as he restores Israel. Simple left-brainism.

The verses of Isaiah have some hidden treasures in them, I think. You just have to realize who they are speaking about.

Jesus has an amazing story that most people do not know about. I would desire to know THAT story.

If in fact there is a forerunner to the return of Christ (which surely there is, ever heard of the two witnesses? - on a side note the two witnesses could be a representation of the idea of a literal Father and a Son Godhead, a symbolic representation of the truth of the Son of God... this is DEFINITELY speculation and not important at all) then it will likely be something we will easily be able to see and understand, as people who have already received the Gospel. The huge majority of Earth has not received the Gospel and are lost at this point in time lying in sin. If you compare that to the Church and the covenants we have - it is a huge deal. We have a great opportunity in the Church to move towards exaltation.

Moses and Aaron represent Jehovah and the Angel of the LORD. He tells Moses that he (Moses) will be to Aaron in place of God and Aaron will be in place of his mouth. The Angel of the LORD is also referred to as the Mouth of the LORD. This is the testator.

Caleb and Joshua represent the tribes of Ephraim and Judah when they approach the promised land for the first time - they represent the two birthrights. Their first entering ties directly to the last ending. The seven circles around Jericho and the seven circles on the seventh day with seven trumps all tie to Revelation.

The greatest among us have small beginnings.. you cannot possibly believe Jesus Christ knew His mission when he was sucking His thumb. He grew up and there came a day He learned of His mission, little by little, and through revelation (obviously). I believe Isaiah (which he read aloud to the people when He was beginning His ministry) helped Him come to understand His mission. The verses about the concealed servant of God... so concealed, He would be rejected by so many. Yet God (Heavenly Father) did choose Him.

I encourage you to read my post before you respond. I think I make a pretty good case here.

I agree. He had to puzzle it out for Himself. He learned line upon line as we do. However, if you skip a few lines out of order you may become completely derailed as those later lines may seemingly contradict the former when they don't.

And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of
old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all
things pertaining to my kingdom. Yea, even the wonders of eternity shall they know, and things to
come will I show them, even the things of many generations. And their wisdom shall be great, and their
understanding reach to heaven; and before them the wisdom of the wise shall perish, and the understanding
of the prudent shall come to naught. For by my Spirit will I enlighten them, and by my power will I make
known unto them the secrets of my will—yea, even those things which eye has not seen, nor ear
heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man. (D&C 76:7-10)

But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed
unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion; Which he commanded us
we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; Neither is man
capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy
Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; To whom he
grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves; (D&C 76:114-117)

Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid
up because of unbelief. Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you
how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not
come unto you, because of unbelief.
Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of
wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things
which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the
Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath
remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel. And then shall my
revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the
people. (Ether 4:13-16)

And most importantly:

“It is the privilege of the Children of God to come to God & get Revelation…When any person
receives a vision of Heaven, he sees things that he never thought of before… any person that believes
the works I do shall he do also & greater works. The Father could not be glorified in the Son on any other
principle than we coming to God, asking, receiving, heavens open visions &c.— They are done away
because of unbelief—” (The Words of Joseph Smith, pg. 13-14)

We have the witnesses of the perfect being who came down in the role of Son and became a Father - who testified of the Father, having received directly from the Father and doing the works the Father did. The God who is and the God who was. All that remains is the revelation of the God who is to come.

I take interest in this because when I joined the Church I had evil spirits shove this doctrine in my face in a way nobody would ever believe. I learned it in dreams and in physical manifestations. This was not the only thing. I literally had to just close off my mind to everything and just remember the first revelation - Jesus Christ is alive today and knows me and He appeared to Joseph Smith and the Church is true. There is beautiful simplicity in these statements. Evil spirits try so hard to introduce these ideas and I may never know why this happened when I joined the Church... there were so many signs, delusions, wonders, and dreams forcing these ideas at me. I do not think we are safe with these ideas. We can be putting ourselves at a strange risk. The Prophets need to speak about these things if they are true.

So do you believe the Davidic Servant is Elder Bednar (since it says David and all)?

I am uncomfortable with the entire idea and honestly.. I do not care that much to receive doctrinal revelations anymore. I have way too many evil spirits in my life. I am not even brave enough to do an endowment.

[mmm..cheese]

I will let you know something about me. I am a very left-brained individual and I am not emotional when it comes to discussing these doctrines. I do not have a strong desire to prove a point about something I identify with. Whatever is true is all there is and I accept whatever is true and move on with my life without a second thought about it.

What source are you talking about? I have read about the Davidic Servant stuff and literally, it seems as if every book of Scripture is being cited to be used as evidence for the existence of a Davidic Servant that is like the John the Baptist who will be like a type of Christ. Maybe even a foreshadowing of the Second Coming. Like a modern day Enoch doing the things he did. I am not jealous for Christ at all (as he put it). If I was, I wouldn't have converted to Mormonism, don't you think?

The source I'm referring to is God. James 1:5, Moroni 10:3-5. May I suggest that there is something to this that is niggling at you and perhaps that is why you are taking a deeper look. I can't imagine undertaking this shift in understanding from a left-brain approach. I, personally, never would have been able to. My personal journey started with God whispering just a few words to me. The first experience I had was a confirmation the Davidic Servant was real. You'll hear folks knock the term, but as this servant's identity is hidden (just as not-coincidentally the Angel of the LORD and the Holy Ghost's names are hidden) the term "Davidic" refers to the Davidic covenant and the Davidic line. Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith prays for this line - not for Judah specifically, but the Davidic lineage.

Joseph Smith clearly taught of this mortal individual, yet many still shoehorn this quote into meaning Jesus Christ:

"the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage" (TPJS, p. 339)

"I don't know who that is! That makes me uncomfortable! Let's make it about Jesus or Joseph Smith - comfort zone secured."

D&C 109:62 We therefore ask thee to have mercy upon the children of Jacob, that Jerusalem, from this hour, may begin to be redeemed;
63 And the yoke of bondage may begin to be broken off from the house of David;
64 And the children of Judah may begin to return to the lands which thou didst give to Abraham, their father.

So let's left-brain this for a moment. What is the yoke of bondage from the house of David? Judah is not the House of David. The next verse clearly distinguishes Judah from the house of David. Obviously verse 64 was fulfilled - but notice how it all traces back to Abraham. Why not Noah. I realize it's the Abrahamic covenant - but why Abraham? Why not Noah, or Enoch, or Adam?

You'll notice in the following section - 110 - that Moses appears with the keys to the gathering of Israel, Elias appears with the keys to the dispensation of Abraham, and Elijah appears with the sealing power and he labels all of the above of these keys thusly:

D&C 110:16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

What is "this dispensation?" Well let's look at what was restored - Moses, Elias, and Elijah. The furthest trace back here is Abraham as Elias represents Abraham. And why Elias? Who is Elias? I wrote about this in another thread and in this article.

Elias will drive your left-brain crazy. He's a person, but he's not a person. It's a spirit and power like an office, but Jesus referred to John as Elias (Greek iteration of Elijah) - but both Elias and Elijah appeared to Joseph Smith. I believe the Bible Dictionary (iirc) says Elias must have been a prophet in Abraham's day. Um OK? Why does he have to be a prophet of Abraham's day? The Apocalypse of Abraham has an angel named Jaoel who appears to Abraham and tells him he is set over him and his posterity - and the Apocalypse ends with a prophecy about the Elect One "coincidentally."

I submit to you that Elias is supposed to drive your left-brain crazy. This is an esoteric revelation that must be sought by non-left-brain means. Once received, only then will the left-brain be satisfied.

Back to the left-brain (for now:) Why do all the covenants in Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. always refer to Israel and the sons of Jacob / Israel? Why not Noah? Certainly Noah makes more sense. Why not Enoch or Adam? Why didn't Noah, Enoch, and Adam appear to Joseph Smith before Elijah declared the keys of "this generation?" Left-brain answer - because Abraham is the beginning of the dispensation that ends with us.

I actually think while that is an interesting idea - the Father of us all is glorified in His Servant, Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ speaks in Isaiah (as the God of the Old Testament) He can very well be speaking the words of His Father. Jesus Christ is the humble servant of our Father. He is the annointed heir. Neo in the matrix is based off the man Jesus Christ. It is Jesus Christ that is going to cause every person who has ever laughed at the resurrection to have their mouths stopped. He is the one who is like an arrow and and sharped sword. I feel that by reading the Messianic prophecies of Isaiah you can learn more about Jesus Christ - the things not spoken of in the Gospels.

You're right! He could very well be speaking the words of the Father, but if He were it would be referring to the God who was and not the God who is or the God who is to come.

Revekation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

There is a pattern that is repeated. I believe wholeheartedly that as the Davidic Servant comes to light we will know so much more about this process - the same process Jesus and the Father undertake / undertook.

The prophecies of Isaiah are a duality. The times, countries, and people of Isaiah's day are used to prophesy of the end times countries and peoples. The prophecies of the Davidic Servant are overlaid in the duality of Christ and His anointed. Take Psalm 2 for example:

Psalm 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord (YHWH), and against his anointed, saying.

Sure, this could be Jehovah speaking about Himself at His father's behest. Or, you could look at this from the left-brain perspective and read it exactly for what it is.

If you really want to discover this for yourself, I suggest starting with a prayer and asking God to show you the truth - whatever it may be - and start reading through Isaiah starting at chapter 39. As you approach chapter 53 you'll see this messianic person is not perfect. Left-brain disqualifier of Jesus Christ. And once you realize that all these prophecies that many attribute to Christ are overlaid and focused upon His servant, the beauty and splendor of a perfect being spotlighting His heir - His anointed - rather than Himself will cause you to cry tears of joy. Of course! The testator delivers the message of Jehovah to the prophets - it is the imperfect being who is actually "speaking" more of himself at Jehovah's loving command.

Have you not ever wondered - How did the baby in a manger ever grow up to become a teenager with a close relationship with God, studying the Scriptures of Isaiah closely, come to line by line, precept by precept, understanding through faith that he was the Chosen Servant of God. The Heir of God's kingdom and the embodiment of the salvation of all mankind. And as He learned more He would come to realize that He was the rightful heir to King David's throne. And then further come to know that He would be rejected by the large majority of His own people and be murdered, but like Abraham and believed in God and trusted God to raise up his only son Isaac - the young Jesus learned that He would Himself be resurrected and be like unto God at His own right hand and appear to many.

Yes! I still wonder how much He was subjected to the veil at the end. How much doubt was left in His mind as the cup was presented to Him? He may have thought the prophecies of Isaiah were about Him exclusively at first. Certainly, He learned by the time He taught His disciples of the Comforter:

Isaiah 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.
2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the Lord’s hand double for all her sins.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Even this scripture takes on new meaning:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you (restore) all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Davidic Servant of Isaiah restores Israel to their God - plants in their hearts their true identities and who they are to God and where they are on their eternal progression.

Here you have a link by Jesus from the Comforter to the Davidic Servant of Isaiah:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

This is barely encoded and yet so few have concluded that the Davidic Servant is the Holy Ghost.

D&C 113:3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?
4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.

Notice, he is a descendant of Jesse - not Judah, and Ephraim not Joseph. Who is Ephraim and Jesse - the two birthrights. He joins them together as he restores Israel. Simple left-brainism.

The verses of Isaiah have some hidden treasures in them, I think. You just have to realize who they are speaking about.

Jesus has an amazing story that most people do not know about. I would desire to know THAT story.

If in fact there is a forerunner to the return of Christ (which surely there is, ever heard of the two witnesses? - on a side note the two witnesses could be a representation of the idea of a literal Father and a Son Godhead, a symbolic representation of the truth of the Son of God... this is DEFINITELY speculation and not important at all) then it will likely be something we will easily be able to see and understand, as people who have already received the Gospel. The huge majority of Earth has not received the Gospel and are lost at this point in time lying in sin. If you compare that to the Church and the covenants we have - it is a huge deal. We have a great opportunity in the Church to move towards exaltation.

Moses and Aaron represent Jehovah and the Angel of the LORD. He tells Moses that he (Moses) will be to Aaron in place of God and Aaron will be in place of his mouth. The Angel of the LORD is also referred to as the Mouth of the LORD. This is the testator.

Caleb and Joshua represent the tribes of Ephraim and Judah when they approach the promised land for the first time - they represent the two birthrights. Their first entering ties directly to the last ending. The seven circles around Jericho and the seven circles on the seventh day with seven trumps all tie to Revelation.

The greatest among us have small beginnings.. you cannot possibly believe Jesus Christ knew His mission when he was sucking His thumb. He grew up and there came a day He learned of His mission, little by little, and through revelation (obviously). I believe Isaiah (which he read aloud to the people when He was beginning His ministry) helped Him come to understand His mission. The verses about the concealed servant of God... so concealed, He would be rejected by so many. Yet God (Heavenly Father) did choose Him.

I encourage you to read my post before you respond. I think I make a pretty good case here.

I agree. He had to puzzle it out for Himself. He learned line upon line as we do. However, if you skip a few lines out of order you may become completely derailed as those later lines may seemingly contradict the former when they don't.

And to them will I reveal all mysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of
old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all
things pertaining to my kingdom. Yea, even the wonders of eternity shall they know, and things to
come will I show them, even the things of many generations. And their wisdom shall be great, and their
understanding reach to heaven; and before them the wisdom of the wise shall perish, and the understanding
of the prudent shall come to naught. For by my Spirit will I enlighten them, and by my power will I make
known unto them the secrets of my will—yea, even those things which eye has not seen, nor ear
heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man. (D&C 76:7-10)

But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed
unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion; Which he commanded us
we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; Neither is man
capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy
Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; To whom he
grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves; (D&C 76:114-117)

Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid
up because of unbelief. Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you
how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not
come unto you, because of unbelief.
Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of
wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things
which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the
Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath
remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel. And then shall my
revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the
people. (Ether 4:13-16)

And most importantly:

“It is the privilege of the Children of God to come to God & get Revelation…When any person
receives a vision of Heaven, he sees things that he never thought of before… any person that believes
the works I do shall he do also & greater works. The Father could not be glorified in the Son on any other
principle than we coming to God, asking, receiving, heavens open visions &c.— They are done away
because of unbelief—” (The Words of Joseph Smith, pg. 13-14)

We have the witnesses of the perfect being who came down in the role of Son and became a Father - who testified of the Father, having received directly from the Father and doing the works the Father did. The God who is and the God who was. All that remains is the revelation of the God who is to come.

I take interest in this because when I joined the Church I had evil spirits shove this doctrine in my face in a way nobody would ever believe. I learned it in dreams and in physical manifestations. This was not the only thing. I literally had to just close off my mind to everything and just remember the first revelation - Jesus Christ is alive today and knows me and He appeared to Joseph Smith and the Church is true. There is beautiful simplicity in these statements. Evil spirits try so hard to introduce these ideas and I may never know why this happened when I joined the Church... there were so many signs, delusions, wonders, and dreams forcing these ideas at me. I do not think we are safe with these ideas. We can be putting ourselves at a strange risk. The Prophets need to speak about these things if they are true.

So do you believe the Davidic Servant is Elder Bednar (since it says David and all)?

I am uncomfortable with the entire idea and honestly.. I do not care that much to receive doctrinal revelations anymore. I have way too many evil spirits in my life. I am not even brave enough to do an endowment.

[I AM]

I BELIEVE that in Isaiah 11 and in D&C113 that


Christ is the stem

1 Who is the Stem of Jesse spoken of in the

1st, 2d, 3d, 4th, and 5th verses of the

11th chapter of Isaiah?

2 Verily thus saith the Lord: It is Christ.



Joseph Smith is the rod

3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the

11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?



4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ,

who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim,

or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.



John the Revelator is the root

5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?



6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse,

as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood,

and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign,

and for the gathering of my people in the last days.



the branch according to Gileadi (below)is Jehovah’s end-time servant



"The sprig that is grafted into the shoot—which becomes the fruit-bearing branch—is Jehovah’s end-time servant who represents Israel’s

ethnic lineages."



www.isaiahexplained.com/11#commentary

Avraham Gileadi

Isaiah 11



1 A shoot will spring up from the stock of Jesse

and a branch from its graft bear fruit.



While chapter 10 ends with imagery depicting the archtyrant’s hewing down trees, chapter 11 begins with tree imagery infused with hope. The tree that represents Jehovah’s people, however—viably an olive tree (Jeremiah 11:16; Hosea 14:5-6)—doesn’t at first bear fruit, at least not good fruit (cf. Isaiah 5:1-2). The horticultural process Isaiah describes shows that its purpose is to cause the tree again to “bear fruit” (yipreh). While its “stock” or “trunk” (geza‘) is identified with Jesse, the father of King David, the “shoot,” “watersprout,” or “sucker” (hoter) that springs from it is wild by nature.



The third member of Isaiah’s olive tree allegory is the “branch” (neser) that “bears fruit,” representing the final stage of a threefold process. In effect, when an olive tree no longer bears good fruit it can (1) be cut down, or (2) kept growing if one or more limbs show signs of life. In this case, such a limb is the watersprout, the kind of shoot that grows straight up from a tree’s trunk but doesn’t itself bear fruit. For that reason, farmers lop them off in the spring. If the watersprout can keep the tree alive, however, then it may be permitted to grow until it becomes sufficiently strong to support a graft.



Isaiah provides a clue to the identity of the branch in the “sprig,” “root,” or “graft” (sores) of verse 10. When grafted into the shoot or watersprout, the sprig—a tame olive tree variety—may eventually grow into a fruit-bearing branch and become a newly regenerated tree. As does the sprig (v 10) that becomes the branch (v 1), the stock and shoot represent persons instrumental in empowering the tree—Jehovah’s covenant people—to again bear fruit. Because of the principle of “the one and the many,” each individual additionally represents the people associated with his particular phase of the process.



A shoot will spring up from the stock of Jesse. The wild nature of the shoot or watersprout suggests a connection with the Gentiles who interact with Israel’s ethnic lineages (cf. Romans 11). Certain kings and queens of the Gentiles, for example, play a key role in the end-time restoration of Jehovah’s people: “Thus says my Lord Jehovah: ‘I will lift up my hand to the Gentiles, raise my ensign to the peoples; and they will bring your sons in their bosoms and carry your daughters on their shoulders. Kings shall be your foster fathers, queens your nursing mothers’” (Isaiah 49:22-23; emphasis added).



The assimilation of many Israelites into the Gentile nations following Israel’s ancient exile has led to two kinds of end-time lineages of Jehovah’s people: (1) ethnic; and (2) assimilated. The wild nature of the shoot suggests an identity with Israel’s assimilated lineages. While these keep the tree alive, in the end they bear no fruit and are mostly cut off so that the sprig may be grafted in. In that case, the assimilated lineages who are cut off represent Jehovah’s people who are destroyed in his Day of Judgment, while the assimilated lineages who sustain the graft are the kings and queens of the Gentiles.



The identity of the shoot, stock, and branch appears from clues in Isaiah’s olive tree allegory.

The words “of Jesse” (vv 1, 10) yield a Davidic and messianic identity for all three individuals.

The sprig that is grafted into the shoot—which becomes the fruit-bearing branch—is Jehovah’s end-time servant who represents Israel’s ethnic lineages (vv 10-12; Isaiah 4:2). The shoot into which the sprig is grafted—that does not, in the end, bear fruit—is a servant of Jehovah who represents Israel’s assimilated lineages.

The stock is Jehovah, who represents his people Israel as a whole (cf. Isaiah 53:2).





2 The Spirit of Jehovah will rest upon him—the spirit of wisdom and of understanding,the spirit of counsel and of valor,the spirit of knowledgeand of the fear of Jehovah.



Although all three messianic individuals in Isaiah’s olive tree allegory evidence the divine attributes here listed, grammatically they apply to the last one mentioned—the branch—Jehovah’s end-time servant. Word links confirm that identity: “My servant whom I sustain, my chosen one in whom I delight, him I have endowed with my Spirit; he will dispense justice to the nations” (Isaiah 42:1); “He will be called Wonderful Counsellor, One Mighty in Valor” (Isaiah 9:6); “Because of his knowledge, and by bearing their iniquities, shall my servant, the righteous one, vindicate many” (Isaiah 53:11).



Based on the principle of “the one and the many,” moreover, those to whom Jehovah’s servant ministers, who emulate him (cf. Isaiah 8:16), come to demonstrate the same divine attributes: “My Spirit which is upon you and my words which I have placed in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth” (Isaiah 59:21); “I have charged my holy ones, called out my valiant ones: my anger is not upon those who take pride in me” (Isaiah 13:3); “Your faithfulness in time [of trial] shall prove to be a strength, your wisdom and knowledge your salvation; your fear of Jehovah shall be your riches” (Isaiah 33:6).

[I AM]

www.isaiahexplained.com/resources/isaia ... ime-events

24. The Davidic Monarchy


The institution of kings in Israel comes in response to repeated threats to the nation from the surrounding peoples during the reign of Israel’s judges. When Israel regresses in it allegiance to its God, it begins to lose his divine protection. Exacerbating the situation is that no unifying societal structure exists that governs people’s actions: “In those days there was no king in Israel, and every man did what was right in his own eyes” (Judges 17:6). On various occasions, judges such as Gideon are able to rally some of the Israel’s tribes to meet these enemy threats. But when the Philistines and other nations imperil Israel’s very existence, Israel’s elders come to the prophet Samuel and demand a king, one who can command all of Israel’s tribes to defend their land: “Make us a king to judge us like all the nations” (1 Samuel 8:5).



Under the terms of the Sinai Covenant, Israel as a whole has been required to keep God’s law in order for the people to receive his divine protection. Under the terms of the Davidic Covenant, on the other hand—which God institutes in response to Israel’s demands for a king—he requires only that the king to keeps his law while the people are required to keep the king’s law. Both covenants follow the pattern of ancient Near Eastern emperor–vassal covenants, in which Israel’s God plays the role of emperor and the people or their king play the role of vassal. For the people of Israel, the Davidic Covenant thus constitutes a lesser law—they now merely need to obey their king to obtain God’s protection. For the king, however, the Davidic Covenant is a higher law as he is now answerable for his people’s disloyalties to Israel’s God in order for God to extend his protection.



As all subsequent messianic prophecies and their fulfillment are based on these covenant patterns, it is important to gain a clear understanding of them or the idea of a messiah can lead to confusion. Why do Jews and Christians, for example retain such divergent messianic hopes—Jews anticipating a messiah who obtains his people’s divine protection or temporal salvation, and Christian adhering solely to the idea of a spiritual messiah, one who obtains his people salvation from sin? In Isaiah’s repeat scenario of ancient events, God’s raising up a Davidic king—his end-time servant—follows the type of his raising up King David in response to his people’s need for divine protection. That occurs at a time when his people’s enemies are imperiling their very existence, just as their enemies did anciently.



God’s end-time servant, in other words, fulfills Jewish expectations of a temporal messiah, one who answers for his people’s disloyalties to Israel’s God in the pattern of ancient Near Eastern emperor–vassal covenants. The idea of a Christian messiah, on the other hand—of a spiritual savior as vested in Jesus of Nazareth—has no precedent in the past that repeats itself in the end-time. Jehovah/Jesus doesn’t come to do physical battle in wars with Israel’s enemies in the pattern of King David—God’s servant does. Nor is the role of redeeming God’s people from their sins an end-time role. Rather, in an end-time context, Jehovah comes on the earth to reign as King of Zion after his servant has prepared a people to meet their God. In the interim, Jehovah gives his servant the victory over his enemies as he did King David. As a forerunner of Jehovah’s coming to reign on the earth, the servant gathers and reunites Israel’s tribes, builds the temple in Jerusalem to which Jehovah comes, and establishes the political kingdom of God on the earth over which Jehovah reigns. Each messianic individual, in other words, plays a separate but complementary role.



King David and his righteous heirs, notably King Hezekiah, nevertheless act as types on a temporal level of Jehovah/Jesus’ proxy role on behalf of his people in obtaining their spiritual salvation. When projecting the idea of a spiritual messiah, Isaiah creates a composite of types: (1) of a Davidic king who is prosecuted on account of his people’s disloyalties to God in the pattern of emperor–vassal covenants (Isaiah 53:4–6, 8); and (2) of a sacrificial lamb that acts as “an offering for guilt” (‘asam) under the Law of Moses (Isaiah 53:7, 10). That is different from what most messianic prophecies depict, which deal with the redemptive mission of a latter-day David. As noted, moreover, Isaiah doesn’t predict the earthly mission of a spiritual messiah as an end-time event, only as one that God’s arm—his servant—points to it when seeking to renew end-time Israel’s allegiance to its God (Isaiah 53:1).



David’s rise to kingship—on the heels of Saul’s demise—provides a type of the rise of God’s end-time servant from an obscure background to prominence to displace a fallen leader. We observe this when God commands the prophet Samuel to anoint a son of Jesse: “When Jesse made seven of his sons pass in front of Samuel, Samuel said to Jesse, ‘Jehovah hasn’t chosen these.’ And Samuel said to Jesse, ‘Are all your children here?’ And he said, ‘There is still the youngest and he is keeping the flock.’ Then Samuel said to Jesse, ‘Send and fetch him, for we won’t sit down until he comes here.’ So he sent and brought him in. Now he was ruddy and altogether of a comely appearance and goodly to look upon. And Jehovah said, ‘Arise and anoint him for this is the one.’ Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers. And the Spirit of Jehovah came upon David from that day forward” (1 Samuel 16:10–13).



After David has ruled seven years over Judah and shown himself victorious over Israel’s enemies, the northern tribes ask that he rule also over them: “Then all the tribes of Israel came to David in Hebron and spoke, saying, ‘See, we are your bone and flesh. Also, in times past, when Saul was king over us, you were the one who led out and brought in Israel, and Jehovah said to you, “You will feed my people Israel and you will be a captain over Israel.”’ So all the elders of Israel came to the king in Hebron, and King David made a compact with them in Hebron before Jehovah, and they anointed David king over Israel. David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years. In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty-three years over all of Israel and Judah” (2 Samuel 5:1–5).



Among David’s many accomplishments on behalf of Israel are his slaying the giant Goliath when the Philistines are about to overwhelm Israel (1 Samuel 17:31–51); slaying Israel’s enemies the Philistines with a great slaughter (1 Samuel 19:8; 23:5; 2 Samuel 5:18–25); delivering Israelite cities from the power of the Philistines (1 Samuel 23:5); suffering trials and afflictions on account of Saul, Israel’s first king, who makes him an outlaw and numbers him with criminals—while he remains loyal to Saul at all times (1 Samuel 18:10–11; 19:9–12; 20:34–41; 21:10–13; 22:1–5, 14; 23:6–26; 27:1); sparing Saul’s life on two occasions when Saul seeks to kill him (1 Samuel 24:3–19; 26:7–25); slaying Israel’s enemies the Amalekites and dividing their spoil among the people (1 Samuel 30:8–31); and conquering many nations and peoples of his empire and ruling them with justice and righteousness (2 Samuel 8:1–18; 10:1–19; 12:26–31). These typify many things God’s end-time servant does.



After David proves loyal to Israel’s God at all times, Jehovah makes an unconditional covenant with him after the pattern of ancient Near Eastern emperor–vassal covenants: “I have found David my servant. With my holy oil I have anointed him. With him my hand will be established. My arm also will strengthen him. The enemy will not coerce him, nor the sons of wickedness afflict him. I will beat down his foes before his face and plague those who hate him. But my faithfulness and my mercy will be with him, and in my name will his horn be exalted. I will set his hand in the sea and his right hand in the rivers. He will cry to me, ‘You are my father, my God, the rock of my salvation.’ And I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy will I keep with him evermore and my covenant will stand fast with him. I will make his offspring endure forever and his throne as the days of heaven” (Psalm 89:20–29; compare Jeremiah 33:19–26).



These things typify God’s dealings with his end-time servant. Part III of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure (Isaiah 9–12; 41–46) depicts the servant undergoing a descent phase of trials and afflictions in the pattern of King David that is the prelude to his ascent phase. Acting as a proxy savior of his people as did David, the servant obtains their divine protection—at which point God exalts him and makes with him an unconditional covenant as he did with David. Jehovah first anoints his servant, an aspect that Isaiah covers under the servant’s Cyrus persona: “Thus says Jehovah to his anointed, to Cyrus, whom I grasp by the right hand” (Isaiah 45:1; emphasis added). An emperor’s grasping of a vassal by the right hand signifies his appointing the vassal to a particular task—in this instance, the overthrow of nations and peoples in order to release Israel’s captives (Isaiah 45:1–4, 13). Upon God’s anointing his servant, the Spirit of Jehovah comes upon him as it did upon David: “My servant whom I sustain, my chosen one in whom I delight, him I have endowed with my Spirit” (Isaiah 42:1).



A person’s anointing, on the one hand, and his Spirit endowment, on the other, however, are two inseparable messianic traits, as was the case with King David (1 Samuel 16:13). The fact that Isaiah separates them under two different messianic personas means that each exemplifies a particular aspect of the servant’s end-time mission, one spiritual, the other physical. Both ideas, for example—(1) of the servant’s “anointing,” and (2) of his endowment by Jehovah’s “Spirit”—come together in a passage Jesus quotes in part in the synagogue at Nazareth (Luke 4:16–21), which passage he applies to himself: “The Spirit of my Lord Jehovah is upon me, for Jehovah has anointed me to announce good tidings to the lowly; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and the opening of the eyes to the bound, to herald the year of Jehovah’s favor and the day of vengeance of our God” (Isaiah 61:1–2).



The part that Jesus omits from his reading—“and the day of vengeance of our God”—points to a key difference between the role of Jehovah/Jesus and that of his servant. As God’s “day of vengeance” is an end-time event, the fuller context of the passage depicts the messianic mission of God’s end-time servant, not that of Jehovah/Jesus (Isaiah 61:3–9). Both individuals, however, fulfill the redemptive parts of the prophecy, Jesus on a spiritual level and the servant on a temporal level. These things show that while God’s servant follows closely the pattern of King David, his end-time role as a temporal messiah and that of Jesus as a spiritual messiah are similar in nature and overlap in many of their messianic attributes.



The end-time context of Isaiah’s prophecy as a whole that Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure establishes nevertheless determines that the servant’s mission is an end-time mission, one that exhibits two distinct phases: (1) a conditional or descent phase, in which the servant answers to Israel’s God for the disloyalties of his people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant in order to obtain their divine protection when enemies threaten; and (2) an unconditional or ascent phase, in which the servant is crowned king as was King David by Israel’s tribes. The first emphasizes the servant’s “servant” phase, in which he fulfills the spiritual role of a proxy savior to God’s people in the pattern of King Hezekiah. The second emphasizes his “son” phase, in which he fulfills the physical role of reconquering the world from the Assyrian alliance in the pattern of King David’s conquest of the ancient Near East and of Cyrus the Persian’s conquest of the Babylonian Empire.



The servant’s proving loyal to Israel’s God under all conditions in both his spiritual role as a proxy savior and his physical role as a world conqueror follows the pattern of ancient Near Eastern emperor–vassal covenants. While a vassal was known as the emperor’s “servant” during the conditional phase of his covenant, after he proved loyal to the emperor under all conditions the emperor adopted him unconditionally as his “son.” This same transition from servanthood to sonship, moreover, applies to all end-time servants of God who fulfill roles as proxy saviors to God’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant. Part III of Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure’s conjoining of its two units of material into a single whole (Isaiah 9–12; 41–46)—one dealing with the servant’s “son” phase (Isaiah 9:6), the other with his “servant” phase (Isaiah 42:1; 44:26)—means that these messianic prophecies are to be perceived as inseparable depictions of the same end-time individual. That accords with emperor–vassal covenants in general, in which the terms “servant” and “son” together, not separately, designate a vassal king who proves loyal to an emperor (2 Kings 16:7).



It is only in the light of these historical patterns and precedents that messianic prophecies can properly be understood. Simply latching on to any messianic prophecy and applying it to Jesus regardless of its end-time context—ignoring what the prophecy’s words actually say, and neglecting its historical background—merely creates stumbling blocks and generates confusion. The idea of an end-time servant of Israel’s God called David, who reigns with him during the earth’s millennial age of peace, takes nothing away from the messianic mission of Jehovah/Jesus, the King of Zion. In fact, many other servants of God reign with him in that glorious age, all of whom follow the same pattern of serving God’s people as kings and priests under the terms of the Davidic Covenant (Isaiah 32:1; 49:23; 60:3–4, 10–11; 61:6–9). They, too, therefore, are “anointed” and endowed with God’s “Spirit” (Isaiah 59:21; 61:3).



Because Isaiah’s Seven-Part Structure transforms the entire Book of Isaiah into an end-time scenario, as noted—in which even biographical material typifies or foreshadows things that repeat themselves—Isaiah’s messianic prophecies primarily portray the end-time mission of God’s servant. Those same messianic prophecies, however, may additionally apply on another level in part to Jehovah/Jesus, as in the passage from Isaiah 61:1–2 that Jesus applied to himself. They may even characterize the redemptive missions of others who serve as kings and priests to God’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant. The end-time reestablishment of the Davidic monarchy, however, as typified by the establishment of the Davidic monarchy in the days of King David, applies solely to God’s end-time servant and forms an integral part of “the restoration/restitution of all things” (Matthew 17:11; Mark 9:12; Acts 3:21). That restoration—as characterized by the series of ancient events that repeat themselves at the end of the world—precedes Jehovah/Jesus’ coming to reign on the earth and prepares the way before him.



In the course of acting as a proxy savior to God’s people in order to obtain their divine protection when their lives are imperiled, God’s servant suffers at the hands of vindictive and accusatory enemies from among his own people: “My Lord Jehovah has endowed me with a learned tongue, that I may know how to preach to those grown weary a word to wake them up. Morning by morning he wakens my ear to hear, as at study; my Lord Jehovah has opened my ear, and I rebel not, nor back away: I offered my back to smiters, my cheeks to those who plucked out the beard; I hid not my face from insult and spitting. Because my Lord Jehovah helps me, I shall not be disgraced; I have set my face like flint, knowing I shall not be confounded. He who vindicates me is near me. Who has a dispute with me? Let us face one another! Who will bring charges against me? Let him confront me with them! See, my Lord Jehovah sustains me. Who then will incriminate me? Surely all such shall wear out like a garment; the moth will consume them. Who among you fears Jehovah and heeds the voice of his servant, who, though he walk in the dark and have no light, trusts in the name of Jehovah and relies on his God? But you are lighters of fires, all of you, who illuminate with mere sparks. Walk then by the light of your fires and by the sparks you have kindled. This shall you have from my hand: you shall lie down in agony” (Isaiah 50:4–11).



Like King Hezekiah (Isaiah 38:1–20), God’s servant “pours out his soul unto death” when answering for the disloyalties of God’s people under the terms of the Davidic Covenant, but when God empowers him he “divides the spoil with the mighty” as did King David: “He shall see the toil of his soul and be satisfied; because of his knowledge, and by bearing their iniquities, shall my servant, the righteous one, vindicate many. I will assign him an inheritance among the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty, because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with criminals—he bore the sins of many, and made intercession for the transgressors” (Isaiah 53:11–12). In each case, the proxy savior’s descent phase leads to his ascent phase: “My servant, being astute, shall be highly exalted; he shall become exceedingly eminent. His appearance was marred beyond human likeness, his semblance unlike that of men. Yet shall he yet astound many nations, kings shutting their mouths at him—what was not told them, they shall see; what they had not heard, they shall consider” (Isaiah 52:13–15).



After the servant is “despised as a person” and “abhorred by his people” (Isaiah 49:7)—yet proves faithful to God under all conditions in ministering to God’s people—Jehovah exalts and empowers him: “For now Jehovah has said—he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to restore Jacob to him, Israel having been gathered to him; for I won honor in the eyes of Jehovah when my God became my strength—he said: ‘It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore those preserved of Israel. I will also appoint you to be a light to the nations, that my salvation may be to the end of the earth’” (Isaiah 49:5–6);



He becomes a power of salvation to God’s exiled peoples: “Give ear and come unto me; pay heed, that your souls may live! And I will make with you an everlasting covenant: [my] loving fidelity toward David. See, I have appointed him as a witness to the nations, a prince and lawgiver of the peoples. You will summon a nation that you did not know; a nation that did not know you will hasten to you—because of Jehovah your God, the Holy One of Israel, who gloriously endows you” (Isaiah 55:3–5); “In that day the sprig of Jesse, who stands for an ensign to the peoples, shall be sought by the nations, and his rest shall be glorious” (Isaiah 11:10).



Upon the servant’s vanquishing the enemies of God’s people and dividing their spoil as did King David, he is crowned king by Israel’s tribes as was David: “The people walking in darkness have seen a bright light; on the inhabitants of the land of the shadow of death has the light dawned. You have enlarged the nation and increased its joy; they rejoice at your presence as men rejoice at harvest time, or as men are joyous when they divide spoil. For you have smashed the yoke that burdened them, the staff of submission, the rod of those who subjected them, as in the day of Midian. And all boots used in battle and tunics rolled in blood have become fuel for bonfires. For to us a child is born, a son appointed, who will shoulder the burden of government. He will be called Wonderful Counsellor, One Mighty in Valor, a Father for Ever, a Prince of Peace—that sovereignty may be extended and peace have no end; that, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, [his rule]may be established and upheld by justice and righteousness from this time forth and forever” (Isaiah 9:2–7; emphasis added).



Although historically the above passage depicts the enthronement of King Hezekiah, it too typifies an end-time event—the enthronement of God’s servant upon his vanquishing the enemies of God’s people. As Jehovah’s “son”—denoting an emperor’s unconditional covenant with a vassal who proves loyal under all conditions—God’s servant reestablishes the Davidic monarchy. (Handel’s Messiah, based on a mistranslation in the King James Version of verse 6, as well as on a misreading of the context of the passage—in which God’s servant’s subdues the Assyrian power and gathers Israel’s tribes—cannot be construed as a literal fulfillment of this messianic prophecy. No corroborating scriptural source, therefore, applies it to Jesus of Nazareth.)



The reestablishment of the Davidic monarchy appears a second time as an event connected to the servant’s vanquishing his people’s enemies in the pattern of King David: “When oppressors are no more and violence has ceased, when tyrants are destroyed from the earth, then, in loving kindness, shall a throne be set up in the abode of David, and in faithfulness a judge sit on it who will maintain justice and expedite righteousness” (Isaiah 16:4–5).



That judge—God’s servant—prepares end-time Israel to meet Jehovah/Jesus at his coming by clearing away his people’s stumbling blocks: “A voice calls out, ‘In the desert prepare the way for Jehovah; in the wilderness pave a straight highway for our God: every ravine must be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the uneven ground must become level and rough terrain a plain.’ For the glory of Jehovah shall be revealed and all flesh see it at once” (Isaiah 40:3–5); “Pass on, go through gates; prepare the way for the people! Excavate, pave a highway cleared of stones; raise the ensign to the nations! Jehovah has made proclamation to the end of the earth: ‘Tell the Daughter of Zion, “See, your Salvation comes, his reward with him, his work preceding him.’” They shall be called the holy people, the redeemed of Jehovah; and you shall be known as in demand, a city never deserted” (Isaiah 62:10–12).



Finally, common messianic attributes of Jehovah/Jesus and his servant in messianic prophecies should be discerned in how they apply to each savior figure individually. Separated by time and location, the arena in which each fulfills his mission is personal to him and distinguishes one from the other. As in the following messianic passage, for example, linking ideas to other parts of Isaiah’s prophecy—such as an endowment of God’s Spirit (Isaiah 42:1; 48:16; 61:1; 63:11), the attributes of counsel, valor, and righteousness (Isaiah 9:6–7; 28:29; 46:11–13; 49:26), and key words that act as codenames such as righteousness, mouth, and lips (Isaiah 41:2; 46:11–13; 49:2; 57:18–19)—designate mostly God’s servant in an end-time context as the subject of the passage but in a generic sense may apply to Jehovah himself, whom his servant and fellowservants seek to emulate:



“A shoot will spring up from the stock of Jesse and a branch from its graft bear fruit. The Spirit of Jehovah will rest upon him—the spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the spirit of counsel and of valor, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah. His intuition will be [guided] by the fear of Jehovah; he will not judge by what his eyes see, nor establish proof by what his ears hear. He will judge the poor with righteousness, and with equity arbitrate for the lowly in the land; he will smite the earth with the rod of his mouth and with the breath of his lips slay the wicked. Righteousness will be as a band about his waist, faithfulness a girdle round his loins” (Isaiah 11:1–5).



Jehovah’s coming to the earth to reign as King of Zion indeed constitutes the culminating fulfillment of the servant’s end-time reestablishment of the Davidic monarchy and completes Jehovah’s ascent phase. As with all who serve as proxy saviors under the terms of the Davidic Covenant, that ascent phase must be seen as inseparable from his descent phase in which he answers for his people’s disloyalties to the Most High God. His descent below all during his earthly ministry—when paying the price of his people’s spiritual salvation (Isaiah 53:1–10)—accords with his glorious ascent above all as King of Zion (Isaiah 52:7).



Based on the interplay between God’s justice and mercy—in which justice must be served before mercy can operate—Jehovah’s fulfilling his proxy role on behalf of his people establishes the theological premise that makes possible humanity’s long-awaited reversal of covenant curses, including death, and constitutes the singular event Jehovah alone can accomplish from which all salvation derives (Isaiah 25:7–8; 26:19; 44:22; 52:1–3; 53:5; 65:19–25). The redemptive mission Jehovah thus performs, though it is central to God’s entire plan of humanity’s salvation, nonetheless receives much less prominence in Isaiah’s and other messianic prophecies than that of his end-time servant. That testifies to the divine modesty of Israel’s King, who, besides passing through a multitude of other deprecating ordeals, is willing to be “despised and disdained by men, a man of grief, accustomed to suffering” (Isaiah 53:3) in the course of delivering his people from evil: “Truly you are a God who dissembles himself, O Savior, God of Israel” (Isaiah 45:15).



Sadly, as entire messianic constructs built up in people’s minds on faulty interpretive foundations inherited from the Dark Ages of apostasy mislead the masses even to this day, it seems apparent that God’s end-time servant and those servants of God who act of proxy saviors under the terms of the Davidic Covenant in restoring his end-time people and preparing them to meet Jehovah/Jesus at his coming must experience their descent phases of trials and afflictions at the hands of those very same misled masses who refuse to invest their time in analyzing Isaiah’s and other messianic prophecies to determine for themselves what they actually say, but who instead are content to parrot back what they are led to believe they say. Such is the paradox of God’s people’s interpersonal relationships: that those who are most “vigilant for his word” (Isaiah 66:5)—as evidenced by their searching the scriptures to see “whether those things are so” (Acts 17:11)—should suffer most at the hands of ecclesiastical brethren who, to their own condemnation, hold fast to popular but scripturally unsupported “precepts of men” (Isaiah 29:13; 51:7; 61:7; 65:13–15; 66:5).

[I AM]

The One Mighty and Strong



At the end of his time with the Israelites, Moses prophesies that they will turn astray. He also says this:



15 ¶The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. (Deut. 18)



There are many other scriptures that refer to this concept.



19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. (Acts 3)



Is Jesus the mighty and strong one?

Most people think that the mighty and strong one is Jesus.

There are a lot of reasons for that. For one, the LDS church has since around 1900 shifted away from the traditional literal interpretation of the verses that describe him, instead saying the pre-advent scriptures prophesying of this event were fulfilled at the time of Jesus. The practice of reallocating prophecy to other times in order to avoid uncomfortable conclusions is not new. It was widely practiced in the Old Testament, just they did it in reverse. They wrote off the prophecies of Isaiah and others to some long future event. We write them off as something that was fulfilled long ago.



Another reason we tend to think the one mighty and strong is Jesus is that we want to avoid unrighteous elevation of a person to the status of a demigod. When one actually lists out all the scriptures describing this person (as I will here), you must either conclude that this person is very literally a savior. That really bothers many people, particularly those who have just come out of an abusive religious relationship where men have caused them much grief through putting themselves in the place of God. Still, the fact that almost all kings in scripture are wicked did not mean that King Benjamin could not be righteous. The scriptures are still there, and we have the obligation of reading them literally and going to God to piece together the meaning.



Another reason we think of the one might and strong as Jesus is that an incomplete reading of scriptures that reference him.



20 And the Lord will surely prepare a way for his people, unto the fulfilling of the words of Moses, which he spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that all those who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people. 21 And now I, Nephi, declare unto you, that this prophet of whom Moses spake was the Holy One of Israel; wherefore, he shall execute judgment in righteousness. (1 Nephi 22)



36 After telling me these things, he commenced quoting the prophecies of the Old Testament. He first quoted part of the third chapter of Malachi; and he quoted also the fourth or last chapter of the same prophecy, though with a little variation from the way it reads in our Bibles. Instead of quoting the first verse as it reads in our books, he quoted it thus: 37 For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall burn as stubble; for they that come shall burn them, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 38 And again, he quoted the fifth verse thus: Behold, I will reveal unto you the Priesthood, by the hand of Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. 39 He also quoted the next verse differently: And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. If it were not so, the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming. 40 In addition to these, he quoted the eleventh chapter of Isaiah, saying that it was about to be fulfilled. He quoted also the third chapter of Acts, twenty-second and twenty-third verses, precisely as they stand in our New Testament. He said that that prophet was Christ; but the day had not yet come when “they who would not hear his voice should be cut off from among the people,” but soon would come. (JS-H)



If these were the only verses you read on the topic, it would seem clear that Christ is the one mighty and strong. And yet, he's not.

Once we graduate from elementary gospel principles, we should also graduate from assuming that one solitary verse conveys the full meaning of a topic.

God has scattered the complete picture across scripture.

He intends for us to search them out and put them together. Mysteries do not come to people who aren't willing to invest the effort to search them out.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Why isn't Jesus the one mighty and strong?

1. Because he said himself that he is not.

Before presenting this, let me remind readers that when God causes something to happen, he frequently takes credit for it, even if he is not the one who does the deed.

For example, he could say that he destroyed the Egyptians that were chasing the Israelites when it was Moses who parted the seas and caused them to recombine over the Egyptian army.



Here is the most important passage on this topic. It is 3 Nephi 20-21.
While this passage is split across two chapters in the modern Book of Mormon, recall that the chapter separations are arbitrary and were created after Joseph.



10 And it came to pass that when they had all given glory unto Jesus, he said unto them: Behold now I finish the commandment which the Father hath commanded me concerning this people, who are a remnant of the house of Israel.

11 Ye remember that I spake unto you, and said that when the words of Isaiah should be fulfilled—behold they are written, ye have them before you, therefore search them—

12 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that when they shall be fulfilled then is the fulfilling of the covenant which the Father hath made unto his people, O house of Israel.

13 And then shall the remnants, which shall be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth, be gathered in from the east and from the west, and from the south and from the north; and they shall be brought to the knowledge of the Lord their God, who hath redeemed them.

14 And the Father hath commanded me that I should give unto you this land, for your inheritance.

15 And I say unto you, that if the Gentiles do not repent after the blessing which they shall receive, after they have scattered my people—

16 Then shall ye, who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, go forth among them; and ye shall be in the midst of them who shall be many; and ye shall be among them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, and as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he goeth through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

17 Thy hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.

18 And I will gather my people together as a man gathereth his sheaves into the floor.

19 For I will make my people with whom the Father hath covenanted, yea, I will make thy horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass. And thou shalt beat in pieces many people; and I will consecrate their gain unto the Lord, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. And behold, I am he who doeth it.

20 And it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that the sword of my justice shall hang over them at that day; and except they repent it shall fall upon them, saith the Father, yea, even upon all the nations of the Gentiles.

21 And it shall come to pass that I will establish my people, O house of Israel.

22 And behold, this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob; and it shall be a New Jerusalem. And the powers of heaven shall be in the midst of this people; yea, even I will be in the midst of you.

23 Behold, I am he of whom Moses spake, saying: A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass that every soul who will not hear that prophet shall be cut off from among the people. 24 Verily I say unto you, yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have testified of me.

25 And behold, ye are the children of the prophets; and ye are of the house of Israel; and ye are of the covenant which the Father made with your fathers, saying unto Abraham: And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 The Father having raised me up unto you first, and sent me to bless you in turning away every one of you from his iniquities; and this because ye are the children of the covenant—

27 And after that ye were blessed then fulfilleth the Father the covenant which he made with Abraham, saying: In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed—unto the pouring out of the Holy Ghost through me upon the Gentiles, which blessing upon the Gentiles shall make them mighty above all, unto the scattering of my people, O house of Israel.

28 And they shall be a scourge unto the people of this land. Nevertheless, when they shall have received the fulness of my gospel, then if they shall harden their hearts against me I will return their iniquities upon their own heads, saith the Father.

29 And I will remember the covenant which I have made with my people; and I have covenanted with them that I would gather them together in mine own due time, that I would give unto them again the land of their fathers for their inheritance, which is the land of Jerusalem, which is the promised land unto them forever, saith the Father.

30 And it shall come to pass that the time cometh, when the fulness of my gospel shall be preached unto them;

31 And they shall believe in me, that I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and shall pray unto the Father in my name.

32 Then shall their watchmen lift up their voice, and with the voice together shall they sing; for they shall see eye to eye.

33 Then will the Father gather them together again, and give unto them Jerusalem for the land of their inheritance.

34 Then shall they break forth into joy—Sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem; for the Father hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.

35 The Father hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of the Father; and the Father and I are one.

36 And then shall be brought to pass that which is written: Awake, awake again, and put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city, for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

37 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, sit down, O Jerusalem; loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

38 For thus saith the Lord: Ye have sold yourselves for naught, and ye shall be redeemed without money.

39 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that my people shall know my name; yea, in that day they shall know that I am he that doth speak.

40 And then shall they say: How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings unto them, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings unto them of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion: Thy God reigneth!

41 And then shall a cry go forth: Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch not that which is unclean; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean that bear the vessels of the Lord.

42 For ye shall not go out with haste nor go by flight; for the Lord will go before you, and the God of Israel shall be your rearward.

43 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently; he shall be exalted and extolled and be very high.

44 As many were astonished at thee—his visage was so marred, more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men—

45 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him, for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

46 Verily, verily, I say unto you, all these things shall surely come, even as the Father hath commanded me. Then shall this covenant which the Father hath covenanted with his people be fulfilled; and then shall Jerusalem be inhabited again with my people, and it shall be the land of their inheritance.



3 Nephi 21



1 And verily I say unto you, I give unto you a sign, that ye may know the time when these things shall be about to take place—that I shall gather in, from their long dispersion, my people, O house of Israel, and shall establish again among them my Zion;

2 And behold, this is the thing which I will give unto you for a sign—for verily I say unto you that when these things which I declare unto you, and which I shall declare unto you hereafter of myself, and by the power of the Holy Ghost which shall be given unto you of the Father, shall be made known unto the Gentiles that they may know concerning this people who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, and concerning this my people who shall be scattered by them;

3 Verily, verily, I say unto you, when these things shall be made known unto them of the Father, and shall come forth of the Father, from them unto you;

4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they should be established in this land, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father, that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed, that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted with his people, O house of Israel;

5 Therefore, when these works and the works which shall be wrought among you hereafter shall come forth from the Gentiles, unto your seed which shall dwindle in unbelief because of iniquity;

6 For thus it behooveth the Father that it should come forth from the Gentiles, that he may show forth his power unto the Gentiles, for this cause that the Gentiles, if they will not harden their hearts, that they may repent and come unto me and be baptized in my name and know of the true points of my doctrine, that they may be numbered among my people, O house of Israel;

7 And when these things come to pass that thy seed shall begin to know these things—it shall be a sign unto them, that they may know that the work of the Father hath already commenced unto the fulfilling of the covenant which he hath made unto the people who are of the house of Israel.

8 And when that day shall come, it shall come to pass that kings shall shut their mouths; for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.
11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant. 12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

13 Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off.

14 Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots;

15 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strongholds;

16 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thy land, and thou shalt have no more soothsayers;

17 Thy graven images I will also cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee, and thou shalt no more worship the works of thy hands;

18 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities.

19 And it shall come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, shall be done away.

20 For it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel;

21 And I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.

22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them, and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance;

23 And they shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.

24 And then shall they assist my people that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem.

25 And then shall the power of heaven come down among them; and I also will be in the midst.

26 And then shall the work of the Father commence at that day, even when this gospel shall be preached among the remnant of this people. Verily I say unto you, at that day shall the work of the Father commence among all the dispersed of my people, yea, even the tribes which have been lost, which the Father hath led away out of Jerusalem.

27 Yea, the work shall commence among all the dispersed of my people, with the Father to prepare the way whereby they may come unto me, that they may call on the Father in my name.

28 Yea, and then shall the work commence, with the Father among all nations in preparing the way whereby his people may be gathered home to the land of their inheritance.

29 And they shall go out from all nations; and they shall not go out in haste, nor go by flight, for I will go before them, saith the Father, and I will be their rearward.



It is undeniable that in 3 Nephi 21:9-11 Jesus is talking about a third person. Not him, and not the Father. A great and marvelous work will be done by "a man," not "me." The servant will be marred, and Jesus will heal him.

The Father will cause this third person to bring forth the words of Jesus. It's all crystal clear. We have to use these verses, which are clear, to interpret the others, which are ambiguous.

The only conclusion is that, though the prophet is technically Christ, it is actually through another man that these words come.
This is why it is so important to have a correct understanding of the one mighty and strong and his mission: Those who do not heed the words of Christ through him will be cut off from the covenant.



2. The manner of Jesus' return is contrary to the description of the environment and works of the one mighty and strong.

Jesus came without glory to the earth at the meridian of time.

His three year ministry resulted in bringing about 500 people to the level of glory necessary to bear his exalted presence after his resurrection.

While he could appear to the masses in his glory-less state before his resurrection, he could not do so afterward. Why?

Because those unprepared for his presence cannot survive it.



The primary mission of the one mighty and strong is to help people come up to the level of glory required to bear the presence of Christ.

Since these people by definition are not yet there, they cannot yet endure the presence of Christ. How could Christ minister to people not yet prepared to be in his presence in order to bring them into his presence?

[I AM]

"The Savior said when these tribulations should take place, it should be committed to a man who should be a witness over the whole world: the keys of knowledge, power and revelations should be revealed to a witness who should hold the testimony of the world.....All testimony is that the Lord in the last days would commit the keys of the Priesthood to a witness over all people. Has the Gospel of the kingdom commenced in the last days? And will God take it from the man until He takes him Himself? I have read it precisely as the words flowed from the lips of Jesus Christ John the Revelator saw an angel flying through the midst of heaven, having the everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth. The scripture is ready to be fulfilled when great wars, famines, pestilence, great distress, judgments, &c., are ready to be poured out on the inhabitants of the earth. John saw the angel having the holy Priesthood, who should preach the everlasting Gospel to all nations God had an angel---a special messenger---ordained and prepared for that purpose in the last days. Woe, woe be to that man or set of men who life up their hands against God and His witness in these last days: for they shall deceive almost the very chosen ones!" (TPJS 364)



``Behold, the Lord hath a might and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters overflowing, shall cast down to the earth with the hand.'' (Isaiah 28:2)



"And it shall come to pass that I, the Lord God, will send one mighty and strong, holding the scepter of power in his hand, clothed with light for a covering, whose mouth shall utter words, eternal words; while his bowels shall be a fountain of truth, to set in order the house of God, and to arrange by lot the inheritances of the saints whose names are found, and the names of their fathers, and of their children, enrolled in the book of the law of God.

While that man, who was called of God and appointed, that putteth forth his hand to steady the ark of God, shall fall by the shaft of death, like as a tree that is smitten by the vivid shaft of lightning. And all they who are not found written in the book of remembrance shall find none inheritance in that day, but they shall be cut asunder, and their portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers, where are wailing and gnashing of teeth.'"

(D&C 85:7-9)



"Wherefore, because of this covenant thou art blessed; for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book. And there shall rise up one mighty among them [the seed of Lehi], who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren." (2 Nephi 3:23-24)

[I AM]

D&C 77:14

14 Q. What are we to understand by the little book which was eaten by John, as mentioned in the 10th chapter of Revelation?

A. We are to understand that it was a mission, and an ordinance, for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.



It is this mission, (he saw himself in Revelations)

what his own mission would be; to gather Israel

in the last days, and be an Elias - a forerunner

to the coming of Christ. Just as John the Baptist

was an Elias - a forerunner to Christ.

For this important mission he (John the Rev.)

has tarried in the flesh for 19 centuries.



He is the "Root of Jessie" in Isaiah 11,

the Davidic King, whom rightly belongs the priesthood

who holds the keys of the priesthood and the kingdom.

D&C113:5-6 6 "Behold, thus saith the Lord,

it is a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph,

unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood,

and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign,

and for the gathering of my people in the last days"



D&C113

1 Who is the Stem of Jesse spoken of in the

1st, 2d, 3d, 4th, and 5th verses of the

11th chapter of Isaiah?



2 Verily thus saith the Lord: It is Christ.



3 What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the

11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?



4 Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim,

or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power.



5 What is the root of Jesse spoken of in the 10th verse of the 11th chapter?



6 Behold, thus saith the Lord, it is a descendant of Jesse,

as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood,

and the keys of the kingdom, for an ensign,

and for the gathering of my people in the last days.



3 Nephi 21:10

10 "But behold, the life of my servant

shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him,

although he shall be marred because of them.

Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them

that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil."



Isaiah 52:15 "sprinkle many nations"

Joseph Smith translated this to be -

"Gather many nation" see JS trans.

Isaiah 52:

14 "As many were astonished at thee;

his visage was so marred more than any man,

and his form more than the sons of men:

15 So shall he SPRINKLE (JST gather) many nations;

the kings shall shut their mouths at him:

for that which had not been told them shall they see;

and that which they had not heard shall they consider."

------------------------------------------------------

Also this davidic king, whom rightly belongs the priesthood

and who holds the keys of the priesthood and the kingdom,

for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days" -

This man will occupy the throne of David over Israel

[Hogmeister]

Latter day Elias is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, see my previous post. John is eating the book as a representative of the priesthood of God. The priesthood is on earth again and it's mission is exactly to restore all things and gather Israel... Who or what are you waiting for? The mission of Elias is taking place right now. Can't you see it?

[ThePowerofEternity111]

A mystery I give unto the saints, some can be authorized more than one life, those who are highest kingdom have capability, but such is rarely granted. The whole church must repent for it is currently going to face judgments. Verily I tell ye Elias is already here so is Moses and other great ones, and even I the Lord the Son of God have been on the field preparing things with mine Angel Gabriel, and what I have done is soon finished and I will shake the entire world as I depart and shall darken every star and turn the moon into blood, and revealed the kingdom of wormwood unto the children of the earth, and the Dragon shall be cast down unto the earth in my withdrawing, and he shall have power over all nations tongues and people and shall make war with them, and the saints will hardly escape and those that do shall be the few known who are worthy to be given the kingdom of God first. For I am not well pleased with many at all in this generation and few have I chosen out of the masses even yea, I prophecy that as it stands now 99.9999 percent of those on earth in this generation shall burn in my return after I visit the hidden tribes in the final day of my revealing and my Fathers in our glory.

These words I speak will occur for the future is known to me, thus all must now strive to repent, that ye may be found of those of the 00.0001% who will be spared the wrath of God. Zion has not yet come because the church it people have been in a apostasy to me for sometime now, even as was warned about in the doctrines.

[gangbusters]

A mystery I give unto the saints, some can be authorized more than one life, those who are highest kingdom have capability, but such is rarely granted. The whole church must repent for it is currently going to face judgments. Verily I tell ye Elias is already here so is Moses and other great ones, and even I the Lord the Son of God have been on the field preparing things with mine Angel Gabriel, and what I have done is soon finished and I will shake the entire world as I depart and shall darken every star and turn the moon into blood, and revealed the kingdom of wormwood unto the children of the earth, and the Dragon shall be cast down unto the earth in my withdrawing, and he shall have power over all nations tongues and people and shall make war with them, and the saints will hardly escape and those that do shall be the few known who are worthy to be given the kingdom of God first. For I am not well pleased with many at all in this generation and few have I chosen out of the masses even yea, I prophecy that as it stands now 99.9999 percent of those on earth in this generation shall burn in my return after I visit the hidden tribes in the final day of my revealing and my Fathers in our glory.

These words I speak will occur for the future is known to me, thus all must now strive to repent, that ye may be found of those of the 00.0001% who will be spared the wrath of God. Zion has not yet come because the church it people have been in a apostasy to me for sometime now, even as was warned about in the doctrines.

I ran this through Google translate and still don't know what you're saying.

[h_p]

I ran this through Google translate and still don't know what you're saying.

Other than the MMP thing, this should all be pretty mainstream for someone who considers himself a Latter-day Saint. And the 99.9999% casualty rate could be debatable, I guess. Isaiah says 90%, John says 66%. It's kind of sad that this is what gets mocked in our church these days.

[gangbusters]

I ran this through Google translate and still don't know what you're saying.

Other than the MMP thing, this should all be pretty mainstream for someone who considers himself a Latter-day Saint. And the 99.9999% casualty rate could be debatable, I guess. Isaiah says 90%, John says 66%. It's kind of sad that this is what gets mocked in our church these days.

To be fair, this post was much clearer than his usual stream of consciousness. The only part that I mock (though probably shouldn't due to his obvious mental illness) is how he appears to claim to be God.

[h_p]

If that's your criteria, you'd also have mocked Isaiah.

There's a fine line between prophetic and crazy, at least from what I've read in the scriptures. The truly great prophets walked around butt naked for 3 years as a warning, or got referred to as a "wild man" or "bald head."

[gangbusters]

If that's your criteria, you'd also have mocked Isaiah.

There's a fine line between prophetic and crazy, at least from what I've read in the scriptures. The truly great prophets walked around butt naked for 3 years as a warning, or got referred to as a "wild man" or "bald head."

If Isaiah went around claiming to be God and suffered from chronic grandiosity without having the mantle of prophet then yes, I would've mocked him.

[Alaris]

I ran this through Google translate and still don't know what you're saying.

Other than the MMP thing, this should all be pretty mainstream for someone who considers himself a Latter-day Saint. And the 99.9999% casualty rate could be debatable, I guess. Isaiah says 90%, John says 66%. It's kind of sad that this is what gets mocked in our church these days.

Isaiah's 90% figure pertains to Israel ... a tithing of Israel = the remnant.

John's 66 % figure is all mankind.

Do you think Powerofeternity is legitimately speaking for the Lord?

[h_p]

Do you think Powerofeternity is legitimately speaking for the Lord?

Should I have to before I can say something about mocking people? All I meant was what I said, nothing more, nothing less.

[ThePowerofEternity111]

I am the Lord and even in your own scriptures for those with wisdom it reveals I would be on the earth secretly, and so would my Father preparing the field before it great tribulation and judgement, and preparing our chosen ones. And it is my grace and mercy I saw many in this forum who in their future suffered so greatly and so suddenly that they were in complete shock as to how it came as believed they were saved, and I sought to save them and give them wisdom that they may be healed in spirit, but behold the damage in their souls is so great they can not comprehend the Light, Darkness has so great a hold on them they are rejecting the very power itself that can redeem them. And it is sad to say it but many will one day realize they were in a dire state and the Light sought to aid them but they would not listen. Now even this is worded in a way to wake up some in which it will and some will continue to mock and scoff and fulfill the visions of the great building. Thus this promise I give unto those who heed mine words, I shall put my Angels in charge of ye and the vipers all around shall hold no power to harm ye, except if ye are called in righteousness to serve as disciples of old, but even then shall I be with ye in spirit and comfort ye. Behold ye shall be they who shall help to bring Zion in which ye shall be granted my true power of priesthood in which your words shall cause the wicked to tremble and shall open the eyes of the blind, and heal the maimed and do all manner of great miracles in my name even Jesus even Yehoshua. But to those who heed not mine words in a time in the future ye shall find yourselves cut off for my Father shall bring his sword against you and ye shall not remain for Zion even as was foretold in scripture. Humble yourselves that ye may be worthy for adoption and to stand before the Son of man.

[ThePowerofEternity111]

And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts. For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted. O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies--because of the praise of the world? Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not? Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain, and cause that widows should mourn before the Lord, and also orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground, for vengeance upon your heads? Behold, the sword of vengeance hangeth over you; and the time soon cometh that he avengeth the blood of the saints upon you, for he will not suffer their cries any longer.”

Thus this is fulfilled, and now my sword shall come again ye and the whole world, and few shall I spare for my word is my sword and eternity heareth for it was always known and seen.

[ThePowerofEternity111]

And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts. For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted. O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies--because of the praise of the world? Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not? Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain, and cause that widows should mourn before the Lord, and also orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground, for vengeance upon your heads? Behold, the sword of vengeance hangeth over you; and the time soon cometh that he avengeth the blood of the saints upon you, for he will not suffer their cries any longer.”

Thus this is fulfilled, and now my sword shall come against ye and the whole world, and few shall I spare for my word is my sword and eternity heareth for it was always known and seen. But i shall give the saints of this generations chance to repent that they may not have the blood of the saints of past upon them with rest of the world.

[Robin Hood]

I am the Lord...

No you're not.
In the last days there shall be false Christs and false prophets.
How does it feel to get a mention in scripture?

[ThePowerofEternity111]

I am the Lord...

No you're not.
In the last days there shall be false Christs and false prophets.
How does it feel to get a mention in scripture?

I am the Lord to my sheep to the rest they will remain of the world, mine shall know me but they who don't have not found me in spirit, woe be it unto that soul who judgeth my words evil for it is not only my words but my Fathers and the Eternal Council of Heaven. For if thou can not see the things I speak are the truth ye know not God, for all good things cometh of God and what evil have I spoken, all things I speak are in scripture for those with wisdom to see, and my awakening is in process and this world time is short, the cup is soon finished and the heavens are soon shaken. And the day shall come ye shall know I spoke the truth and shall tremble, for unless ye change in heart and repent, ye shall be cut of from mine church and will not remain to see the Restoration of Zion thus saith the Lord of hosts. For I will not be mocked by this wicked and perverse generation, I have told ye the things to do making it clear even the things which my servants have said throughout your books, and yet ye deny them.

Behold all the things I speak I myself live and have lived on every world I have been on. Therefore none shall have excuse for ye bear not the cup I do and have no excuse as to why you have broken my covenant and denied mine gospel, for have not applied it to daily life in living. Ye prefer words of flattery to make thine-self feel comfortable in thine darkness ye are as the pharisees who hated me also and judged me the same saying he have a Devil in him.

[Michael Sherwin]

Someone said, it is a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. But it is really a case of not seeing THE TREE for the forest. The hidden one rubs elbows with you. He teaches in your forums. He might even be your neighbor. People who have met him are drawn to him. Then he teaches something that seems strange to them. Something different than they ever heard. Something contrary to Church doctrine. While people are drawn to his spirit they are repulsed by his teachings. They shun him. They run from him. He is not hidden from your sight. He is right there in front of you. He is hidden from you because YOU won't hear him!