How long before Zion?

[Love]

thou lovest me thou shalt serve me and keep all my commandments. And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support . . . with a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken” (D&C 42:29-30)

What will it take for us to be a Zion people?

[Love]

I see the wickedness in full bloom, but we are lacking in righteousness.

[Cookies]

Define wicked?

[Original_Intent]

Lol, I see someone from Outer Darkness got a new user. <3

[gkearney]

Hi Robert

[Love]

5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbor; the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honorable.
6 When a man shall take hold of his brother of the house of his father, and shall say: Thou hast clothing, be thou our ruler, and let not this ruin come under thy hand--
7 In that day shall he swear, saying: I will not be a healer; for in my house there is neither bread nor clothing; make me not a ruler of the people.
8 For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen, because their tongues and their doings have been against the Lord, to provoke the eyes of his glory.
9 The show of their countenance doth witness against them, and doth declare their sin to be even as Sodom, and they cannot hide it. Wo unto their souls, for they have rewarded evil unto themselves!
10 Say unto the righteous that it is well with them; for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.
11 Wo unto the wicked, for they shall perish; for the reward of their hands shall be upon them!
12 And my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they who lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths.
13 The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.
14 The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people and the princes thereof; for ye have eaten up the vineyard and the spoil of the poor in your houses.
15 What mean ye? Ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor, saith the Lord God of Hosts.
16 Moreover, the Lord saith: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched-forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet--
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.
18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments, and cauls, and round tires like the moon;
19 The chains and the bracelets, and the mufflers;
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the ear-rings;
21 The rings, and nose jewels;
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping-pins;
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and hoods, and the veils.

[Alaris]

You have to master your actions desires words and thoughts before you can even think of approaching the law of consecration.

Obedience
Sacrifice
Gospel
Chastity
Consecration

[simpleton]

How long? Probably as soon as we can learn and actually do these things as commanded by Jesus Christ:
D&C 38....

24 And let every man esteem his brother as himself, and practice virtue and holiness before me.

25 And again I say unto you, let every man esteem his brother as himself.

26 For what man among you having twelve sons, and is no respecter of them, and they serve him obediently, and he saith unto the one: Be thou clothed in robes and sit thou here; and to the other: Be thou clothed in rags and sit thou there—and looketh upon his sons and saith I am just?

27 Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.

That is just a random sampling of the very many commands throughout all the scriptures to be one, to be equal, and to esteem our brother as ourselves...

But what is it that we do? We have completly immersed ourselves into the "Babylonian" society. Every man for his financial self, sink or swim, super rich all the way down to the super poor, and that is even amongst us LDS. And yet we think we are His elite saints of the Most High. But, yet, He very clearly says " if we are not one, we are not His people.

D&C 105:
2 Behold, I say unto you, were it not for the transgressions of my people, speaking concerning the church and not individuals, they might have been redeemed even now.

3 But behold, they (and of course " they" is us as we are doing much worse (IMO) than " they" were) have not learned to be obedient to the things which I required at their hands, but are full of all manner of evil, and do not impart of their substance, as becometh saints, to the poor and afflicted among them;

4 And are not united according to the union required by the law of the celestial kingdom;

5 And Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom; otherwise I cannot receive her unto myself...

So until we are willing to live by the principles of the laws if the celestial kingdom there will be no Zion period.

But as to when, as far as timing, I suppose that when this Deliverer, Davidical King, One Mighty and Strong, Man like into Moses etc. comes to set His house in order, I figure that will be the time of, or for, the redemption of Zion...

[Michelle]

It is already here. If you have been to the temple, you are already to be living this law. How many do is different from whether it exists at all right now.

Enoch didn't need everybody on the planet to be righteous for Zion to exist. He just needed the righteous.

I, right now, physically live in Babylon, but I try to live a Zion life and I know others who do as well. We aren't in a commune or in Missouri, we are living in the same neighborhoods as everyone else. But when the Spirit tells me to do or give something to someone, I do it. I have also been the recipient of others listening to the Spirit and sharing with me. No pre-planned sharing, just good old fashioned listening to the Spirit. Remember, the Law of Consecration includes needs and righteous wants. (Righteous wants being those things that increase our talents and testimonies for the building of the Kingdom of God.)

I'm not going to be able to find the quote tonight, but I think it was Brigham Young who said that he already had Zion because he lived Zion in his heart, even though he lived among many who were not yet a Zion people.

[simpleton]

It is already here. If you have been to the temple, you are already to be living this law. How many do is different from whether it exists at all right now.

Enoch didn't need everybody on the planet to be righteous for Zion to exist. He just needed the righteous.

I, right now, physically live in Babylon, but I try to live a Zion life and I know others who do as well. We aren't in a commune or in Missouri, we are living in the same neighborhoods as everyone else. But when the Spirit tells me to do or give something to someone, I do it. I have also been the recipient of others listening to the Spirit and sharing with me. No pre-planned sharing, just good old fashioned listening to the Spirit. Remember, the Law of Consecration includes needs and righteous wants. (Righteous wants being those things that increase our talents and testimonies for the building of the Kingdom of God.)

I'm not going to be able to find the quote tonight, but I think it was Brigham Young who said that he already had Zion because he lived Zion in his heart, even though he lived among many who were not yet a Zion people.

For an individual to be living a " Zion like life" is up to the individual and can be done i suppose even in the midst of Babylon, ( Although the saints are required to " get ye out of Babylon oh ye my people and partake not of her sins and plagues) but if I may kindly disagree, going to the temple by no means automatically makes you a Zion person. Salvation is an individual thing no question. But the Zion being proposed is the Zion that has been prophesied about, sung about, preached about, dreamed about, since the beginning of time by the prophets of old and new as an actual city "upon a hill" that shines her light to the world. What is the common theme in the few histories that we have of Zion, and more especially Enochs Zion? " There were neither rich nor poor and they had all things common" , every man esteemed his brother as himself.
Today in Mormondom it is the opposite ( generally speaking, not individually) It is a mad race after money, position, power, self aggrandizement, lawyercraft, doctorcraft, and priestcraft. It is practically identical, well at least very similar to the Jerusalem of the New Testament. The society we have today in our so-called "Zion" is actually completely the opposite, of Zion but yet we love to name our Babylonian institutions "Zion". ( I confess I derive that from Hugh Nibleys book "Approaching Zion" which by the way I strongly recommend as a very good read)

There is no end to the speculations in regards to the necessity or un-necessity of living the "law of consecration" or the "United Order" , and a person can find seemingly unlimited quotes pro and con in regards thereof. But if you read and study what is available in the scriptures and the descriptions of Zion contained therein you can't but help come to the conclusion that we do not have Zion at all amoung us, and that what we do have now is in complete opposite to Zion. And a thousand more temples built will not make a difference if we as a people continue to live a Babylonian lifestyle. That magnificent temple in Jesus's day did not do the Jews any good. Going to their temple did not save them as a society. Jerusalem was destroyed, as they had rejected their King and His commandments... I wonder if we have also rejected our King as it seems that we love our Babylonian lifestyle of every man for himself rather than esteem our brother as ourselves.
We most definitely love to speak about Christ, but we refuse to live his laws. ( collectively speaking, not individually) But I suppose that the wheat and the tares must continue to grow together until the harvest day.
But until then we can still "weep for Zion"...

[Alaris]

Great posts. I'd like to add we have to not only elevate our own thoughts and desires to be of one heart and one mind, but we have to create an environment where such is attainable, and that environment cannot be attained without caring about each other's thoughts and desires. I call this the "yoga pants test."

[Michelle]

It is already here. If you have been to the temple, you are already to be living this law. How many do is different from whether it exists at all right now.

Enoch didn't need everybody on the planet to be righteous for Zion to exist. He just needed the righteous.

I, right now, physically live in Babylon, but I try to live a Zion life and I know others who do as well. We aren't in a commune or in Missouri, we are living in the same neighborhoods as everyone else. But when the Spirit tells me to do or give something to someone, I do it. I have also been the recipient of others listening to the Spirit and sharing with me. No pre-planned sharing, just good old fashioned listening to the Spirit. Remember, the Law of Consecration includes needs and righteous wants. (Righteous wants being those things that increase our talents and testimonies for the building of the Kingdom of God.)

I'm not going to be able to find the quote tonight, but I think it was Brigham Young who said that he already had Zion because he lived Zion in his heart, even though he lived among many who were not yet a Zion people.

For an individual to be living a " Zion like life" is up to the individual and can be done i suppose even in the midst of Babylon, ( Although the saints are required to " get ye out of Babylon oh ye my people and partake not of her sins and plagues) but if I may kindly disagree, going to the temple by no means automatically makes you a Zion person. Salvation is an individual thing no question. But the Zion being proposed is the Zion that has been prophesied about, sung about, preached about, dreamed about, since the beginning of time by the prophets of old and new as an actual city "upon a hill" that shines her light to the world. What is the common theme in the few histories that we have of Zion, and more especially Enochs Zion? " There were neither rich nor poor and they had all things common" , every man esteemed his brother as himself.
Today in Mormondom it is the opposite ( generally speaking, not individually) It is a mad race after money, position, power, self aggrandizement, lawyercraft, doctorcraft, and priestcraft. It is practically identical, well at least very similar to the Jerusalem of the New Testament. The society we have today in our so-called "Zion" is actually completely the opposite, of Zion but yet we love to name our Babylonian institutions "Zion". ( I confess I derive that from Hugh Nibleys book "Approaching Zion" which by the way I strongly recommend as a very good read)

There is no end to the speculations in regards to the necessity or un-necessity of living the "law of consecration" or the "United Order" , and a person can find seemingly unlimited quotes pro and con in regards thereof. But if you read and study what is available in the scriptures and the descriptions of Zion contained therein you can't but help come to the conclusion that we do not have Zion at all amoung us, and that what we do have now is in complete opposite to Zion. And a thousand more temples built will not make a difference if we as a people continue to live a Babylonian lifestyle. That magnificent temple in Jesus's day did not do the Jews any good. Going to their temple did not save them as a society. Jerusalem was destroyed, as they had rejected their King and His commandments... I wonder if we have also rejected our King as it seems that we love our Babylonian lifestyle of every man for himself rather than esteem our brother as ourselves.
We most definitely love to speak about Christ, but we refuse to live his laws. ( collectively speaking, not individually) But I suppose that the wheat and the tares must continue to grow together until the harvest day.
But until then we can still "weep for Zion"...

I didn't say

going to the temple. . . automatically makes you a Zion person.

If you have gone to the temple, the covenants you have made obligate you to live a Zion life. I hesitate to be specific about sacred covenants online, but anyone who has gone should know what the list is.

Now, there are plenty of people who make, but don't keep their covenants, that is true. But there are also people who do already keep those covenants, without fanfare, while residing in Babylon. Just like Lehi and Noah kept theirs, while still having to live in Babylon until they were given permission/commanded to leave.

I have been blessed by those who live the Law of Consecration as taught in the temple and my husband and I have tried to bless others by doing the same. It doesn't take the bishops intervention to listen to the Spirit and change your financial offerings as directed by the Spirit or even drop off a needed item to a neighbor.

I might be considered poor by the world's standards, but I know I am not. Whenever I have prayed to the Lord for a temporal (or spiritual) blessing I have received it in the moment I needed it. Sometimes it has been literally money, sometimes a needed item, sometimes a change in other circumstances that made the need go away. During none of these cases did I have to ask anyone for what I needed. They simply listened to the Spirit and obeyed. We have also had the experience of the Spirit telling us to give something to someone, unasked, and been rewarded with confirmation from the Spirit and the person that they had prayed for that thing.

What I am trying to say is, that Zion does exist in the midst of Babylon right now. It is not visible to Babylon or those not a part of it. It is not organized on a facebook group or some of the offshoot mormom groups and websites. It just is, neighbor to neighbor and sometimes stranger to stranger.

Anybody can join Zion the moment they commit to keep fully the covenants made in the temple and respond instantly to the promptings from the Spirit.

[Dave62]

"Anybody can join Zion the moment they commit to keep fully the covenants made in the temple and respond instantly to the promptings from the Spirit". Well said Michelle, well said indeed.

[drtanner]

When you say "how long before zion?" Are you speaking of a physical location where a certain group of people move and they have all things in common? Or are you speaking about a "way of being" / "status of your heart" that a certain group of people possess? Or something else?

[Love]

The Place.

[Rose Garden]

We already have Zion. It's just really hard to see it.

[Love]

I just would like to see more.

[Rand]

As Ghandi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world." Live it, and you will be surrounded by it. I am not fully it, but each week I spend a morning in the Temple, I am surrounded by it. Every person is most interested in others well being. Each person is seeking to feel and follow the promptings of the Spirit to bring about God's work and His Glory, which is His Kingdom. I like the way Michelle has said it.

[Alaris]

The Place.

From my studies in Isaiah and the scriptures I believe we are relatively close though that is a spiritual feeling. I believe the time of the gentiles is drawing to an end and the gathering nears as the mother of harlots is starting to eat her own. This is what 1 Nephi 14 prophesies, however, 1 Nephi 14 also speaks of wars that will spawn from the mother of harlots internal conflicts. But aren't we all expecting ZION, the physical place laid out in Revelation 21 and Moses 7, to be built during a time of chaos and turmoil or perhaps just before? He who does not wish to battle his neighbor must needs flee unto ZION after all.

[moving2zion]

Unfortunately what it takes to become a Zion people could fill an entire book. This thread would hardly do it justice. We start today, now even, to be a little bit better, more upright, and definitely more charitable.

[Robin Hood]

thou lovest me thou shalt serve me and keep all my commandments. And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support . . . with a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken” (D&C 42:29-30)

What will it take for us to be a Zion people?

We are going to have to be humbled.

[BeNotDeceived]

The Place.

2027-2031

[BeNotDeceived]

... during a time of chaos and turmoil or perhaps just before? He who does not wish to battle his neighbor must needs flee unto ZION after all.

First eclipse marks when 7 years of prosperity may be known to have begun.

Second eclipse marks conclusion of 7 years prosperity and transition into tribulation.

[the_sign]

The resurrection is already upon us . . .

[James-T-Prout]

This question of "when" will the place of the New Jerusalem in the nation of Zion begin is a good one.

Alaris is correct.

The Nation of Zion with it's center in Jackson County Missouri cannot be built up while the current country is standing there.

This question is one of supreme importance. It is dreadful in it's conclusion.

The center of the North American continent must be cleared first by civil war, BIG Plague, and earthquakes before the capitol city can be built as the prophecies have foretold.

This brings us to the question: have there been any prophecies that tell the sequence of events that lead up to the clearing of the center of the North American continent? Yes there has.

The Ezra's Eagle Prophecy



This prophecy found in 2nd Esdras chapter 11 and 12 of the old King James Version of the Apocrypha tells of America in the Last Days.

It speaks of the destruction of the founding principles through the encroachment of the 3 Eagle Heads agenda.



The Ezra's Eagle Prophecy also speaks of the special 45th President of the United States of America. Who we now know is Donald J. Trump.
In the 1980s, one would not have known who this was going to be. But, today 2017-2018 we now know.



It also speaks of what will happen to him...and what Trump's fate will be.


I have written about the Ezra's Eagle prophecy extensively in the book "The Last-Days Timeline".


Get The Free Chapters on Ezra's Eagle Here:
https://www.lastdaystimeline.com/free-chapters/

The Ezra's Eagle Prophecy already has 18+ fulfilled internal prophecies that link with the United States of America. And the prophecy comes out of the old King James Version of the Apocrypha which used to be directly included with the Bible for 1000s of years.

This prophecy isn't going away anytime soon. It will only keep getting fulfilled.