Interesting - object in solar system...

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Talon65
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Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby Talon65 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:57 pm

Scientists have found an object in our solar system...


https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... m-a2017-u1

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Hivetyrant36
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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby Hivetyrant36 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:05 am

Is this the same one that is already lighting up even though it's as far out as Uranus? Seems to me that a larger object would show more comet features more pronounced and intense than a small object. Essentially, a larger object can "catch" more ions.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby brianj » Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:40 am

Hivetyrant36 wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:05 am
Is this the same one that is already lighting up even though it's as far out as Uranus? Seems to me that a larger object would show more comet features more pronounced and intense than a small object. Essentially, a larger object can "catch" more ions.
Catch more ions? What do you mean by that? What do charged particles in the solar wind have to do with anything?

This object was discovered after perihelion on October 19th, and must have been very dim to escape detection until then. The dimmest magnitude generally detectable with human eyes is about 7.0, with magnitude 9.5 the limit for 7x50 binoculars. A/2017 U1 is estimated to be only about 500 feet wide.
When A/2017 U1 was detected it had an apparent magnitude of 21. A 30 inch wide Ritchey–Chrétien telescope using a cutting edge CCD imager and stacking 30 minutes worth of images has a limiting magnitude of 22. So it isn't whatever you were thinking it may be.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby Hivetyrant36 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:53 pm

brianj wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:40 am
Hivetyrant36 wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:05 am
Is this the same one that is already lighting up even though it's as far out as Uranus? Seems to me that a larger object would show more comet features more pronounced and intense than a small object. Essentially, a larger object can "catch" more ions.
Catch more ions? What do you mean by that? What do charged particles in the solar wind have to do with anything?

This object was discovered after perihelion on October 19th, and must have been very dim to escape detection until then. The dimmest magnitude generally detectable with human eyes is about 7.0, with magnitude 9.5 the limit for 7x50 binoculars. A/2017 U1 is estimated to be only about 500 feet wide.
When A/2017 U1 was detected it had an apparent magnitude of 21. A 30 inch wide Ritchey–Chrétien telescope using a cutting edge CCD imager and stacking 30 minutes worth of images has a limiting magnitude of 22. So it isn't whatever you were thinking it may be.
https://youtu.be/KDa0Ax4TZlU?t=51s

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby brianj » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:42 pm

Hivetyrant36 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:53 pm
brianj wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:40 am
Hivetyrant36 wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:05 am
Is this the same one that is already lighting up even though it's as far out as Uranus? Seems to me that a larger object would show more comet features more pronounced and intense than a small object. Essentially, a larger object can "catch" more ions.
Catch more ions? What do you mean by that? What do charged particles in the solar wind have to do with anything?

This object was discovered after perihelion on October 19th, and must have been very dim to escape detection until then. The dimmest magnitude generally detectable with human eyes is about 7.0, with magnitude 9.5 the limit for 7x50 binoculars. A/2017 U1 is estimated to be only about 500 feet wide.
When A/2017 U1 was detected it had an apparent magnitude of 21. A 30 inch wide Ritchey–Chrétien telescope using a cutting edge CCD imager and stacking 30 minutes worth of images has a limiting magnitude of 22. So it isn't whatever you were thinking it may be.
https://youtu.be/KDa0Ax4TZlU?t=51s
What this guy said until I had to stop the video was in direct opposition to what real planetary scientists are demonstrating.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby GrandMasterB » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:59 pm

brianj wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:42 pm
Hivetyrant36 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:53 pm
brianj wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:40 am
Hivetyrant36 wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:05 am
Is this the same one that is already lighting up even though it's as far out as Uranus? Seems to me that a larger object would show more comet features more pronounced and intense than a small object. Essentially, a larger object can "catch" more ions.
Catch more ions? What do you mean by that? What do charged particles in the solar wind have to do with anything?

This object was discovered after perihelion on October 19th, and must have been very dim to escape detection until then. The dimmest magnitude generally detectable with human eyes is about 7.0, with magnitude 9.5 the limit for 7x50 binoculars. A/2017 U1 is estimated to be only about 500 feet wide.
When A/2017 U1 was detected it had an apparent magnitude of 21. A 30 inch wide Ritchey–Chrétien telescope using a cutting edge CCD imager and stacking 30 minutes worth of images has a limiting magnitude of 22. So it isn't whatever you were thinking it may be.
https://youtu.be/KDa0Ax4TZlU?t=51s
What this guy said until I had to stop the video was in direct opposition to what real planetary scientists are demonstrating.
I understand. It is hard to hear the truth about our universe when you have been believing in things like black holes for so long. Don’t be ashamed. Embrace the truth of the electric universe.
"When the log rolls over we're all going to die!"

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby brianj » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:00 pm

GrandMasterB wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:59 pm
I understand. It is hard to hear the truth about our universe when you have been believing in things like black holes for so long. Don’t be ashamed. Embrace the truth of the electric universe.

Yeah, when you have observed comets through telescopes and conducted spectroscopy, when you have followed research for years, when you have reviewed raw data from deep space probes sent to observe and sample comets, when you spent a night awake with a telescope after driving several hours to find a cloud free dark sky site to see an experiment called AMPTE and observed barium gas turning into an artificial comet tail without a nucleus that will somehow "catch electrons" even though none of the fundamental forces can explain this happening, and when you have been exposed to a dark art called mathematics, it's really hard to "hear the truth about our universe."

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby GrandMasterB » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:56 am

brianj wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:00 pm
GrandMasterB wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:59 pm
I understand. It is hard to hear the truth about our universe when you have been believing in things like black holes for so long. Don’t be ashamed. Embrace the truth of the electric universe.

Yeah, when you have observed comets through telescopes and conducted spectroscopy, when you have followed research for years, when you have reviewed raw data from deep space probes sent to observe and sample comets, when you spent a night awake with a telescope after driving several hours to find a cloud free dark sky site to see an experiment called AMPTE and observed barium gas turning into an artificial comet tail without a nucleus that will somehow "catch electrons" even though none of the fundamental forces can explain this happening, and when you have been exposed to a dark art called mathematics, it's really hard to "hear the truth about our universe."
When they are learned, they think they are wise. This is true.
"When the log rolls over we're all going to die!"

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby ParticleMan » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:09 pm

brianj wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:00 pm
GrandMasterB wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:59 pm
I understand. It is hard to hear the truth about our universe when you have been believing in things like black holes for so long. Don’t be ashamed. Embrace the truth of the electric universe.
Yeah, when you have observed comets through telescopes and conducted spectroscopy, when you have followed research for years, when you have reviewed raw data from deep space probes sent to observe and sample comets, when you spent a night awake with a telescope after driving several hours to find a cloud free dark sky site to see an experiment called AMPTE and observed barium gas turning into an artificial comet tail without a nucleus that will somehow "catch electrons" even though none of the fundamental forces can explain this happening, and when you have been exposed to a dark art called mathematics, it's really hard to "hear the truth about our universe."
Math cannot supplant observation and testing, yet this is what we see in astrophysics--the cart before the horse. Such "mathemagic," an eisegesis of Nature, if you will, let's you see what you want to see, given the right fudge factors. Such a paradigm concocts more science fiction than discovers science fact.

Contrary to conventional astrophysics and cosmology, EU theory, which is based on plasma cosmology and recognizes the more powerful phenomena of electromagnetism as well as the weaker phenomenon of gravity, does not force math onto observation. It is indeed a paradigm shift.

Top 10 Reasons the Universe is Electric, a series currently still in progress:
#1: Cosmic Magnetic Fields - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZnfNuXiExQ
#2: Filaments in Space - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBnSX6i349M
#3: Cosmic Jets - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMWfbIQ-hi4
#4: Light Bulbs in Space - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW6ss_sQNvE
#5: Pulsars - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zV1cLKJfbE
#6: Charged Planets - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swcpo0L8juo
Last edited by ParticleMan on Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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inho
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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby inho » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:33 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:09 pm
does not force math onto observation
This is such a nice way to say that it is not possible to write mathematical description for EU which would match all observations.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby brianj » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:11 pm

Someone tell me how it is possible, if math is nothing but black magic created to mislead people, systems have been designed to test mathematical theories, have been built, have tested those theories, and have provide exactly the results predicted mathematically.

It would help a lot if you would provide sources that are scientifically reputable, don't misrepresent generally accepted theories, and don't misrepresent or blatantly lie about current scientific models or observations.

Just one example: Fermi bubbles aren't an inexplicable mystery. Electromagnetic energy is easy to measure and test, and has been found to fit mathematical predictions. I couldn't continue listening to someone blather on about what he knows to be true, without any testable model or observational proof, contradicting actual observational data.

As I have said before, anybody who wants to call astronomy a conspiracy has to somehow explain to me how it is that I can take my telescope to a dark sky site, participate in data collection for professional astrophysicists, and find in my own observation exactly what they claim I should see.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby ParticleMan » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:12 am

brianj wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:11 pm
Someone tell me how it is possible, if math is nothing but black magic created to mislead people, systems have been designed to test mathematical theories, have been built, have tested those theories, and have provide exactly the results predicted mathematically.
This premise is false and characterization of math disingenuous. Nobody is disdaining math. On the contrary, it's an amazing feat when equations and algorithms are developed that replicate and predict phenomena, such as in CG.

The issue is the potential use of math, that it can, has been, and continues to be used deceptively, particularly in science. Math can mislead when what is thought is observed or to occur is modeled and then claimed true without being tested.

Does imagination replace data? Does science prefer the modeling of assumptions over tested observations?

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inho
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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby inho » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:32 am

ParticleMan wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:12 am
Math can mislead when what is thought is observed or to occur is modeled and then claimed true without being tested.
I actually agree with that. Science should be based on experiments. However, as someone who has been focusing on numerical simulations throughout my career in physics, I would also like to point out that not everything can be tested. There are whole branches of science, where performing experiments is simply not possible. Take economics for example, it is impossible to test economic ideas in the scale of the whole world. The same with cosmology, we only have one universe to play with. Also in astrophysics our ability to perform experiments is limited. In these kinds of fields, we must settle for observations. And the observations support better the traditional understanding about the planetary dynamics than the electric universe theories.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby ParticleMan » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:01 am

inho wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:32 am
And the observations support better the traditional understanding about the planetary dynamics than the electric universe theories.
This is where an increasing number disagree. If you were to actually check out the work being done by plasma physicists and electrical engineers who investigate EU theory, you would see that plasma and electromagnetism are far more testable and tenable than kinetic effects alone. In addition to analyzing observations where testing not possible, which is of course a feature of astrophysics, the SAFIRE Project is already producing amazing results.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby inho » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:20 am

ParticleMan wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:01 am
This is where an increasing number disagree.
Perhaps increasing, yet tiny number.

Let me suggest you some reading. It has to do with Velikovsky, who was one of the first EU proponents:
Pseudoscience wars by Michael D. Gordin

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby ParticleMan » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:29 am

inho wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:20 am
Let me suggest you some reading. It has to do with Velikovsky, who was one of the first EU proponents:
Yes, Velikovsky inspired EU theory, and it's acknowledged that he got some things wrong. However, the work of Birkeland, Alfven, Arp, Peratt, and others play much larger roles.
Last edited by ParticleMan on Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby brianj » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:32 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:01 am
If you were to actually check out the work being done by plasma physicists and electrical engineers who investigate EU theory...
It's pretty arrogant to assume that anybody who disagrees with you is ignorant of whatever you think supports your position.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby Hivetyrant36 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:42 pm

Science IS observation. The essence of it is question, theory, experimentation, and result. Mainstream science almost always skips the experimentation step.
Researchers were able to recreate the rings of Saturn around a water droplet using electric fields. They have been able to create dipoles that act just like what we see in space. They have been able to recreate the wavy dust on asteroids devoid of wind using nothing but sand and electricity.
The EU is scaleable, and everything that would affect a smaller body will affect a larger body in the same scale. Denial of the proofs and data that can be found at the Thunderbolts Project channel is either naivety or pride, and neither is good for a man.

How long will the naysayers believe in their priests the scientists? How long must the wizards and the sorcerers beguile you with their lies before you see the snake that tempts you?

Mainstream science is a religion.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby ParticleMan » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:00 am

Hivetyrant36 wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:42 pm
Science IS observation. The essence of it is question, theory, experimentation, and result. Mainstream science almost always skips the experimentation step....

Mainstream science is a religion.
Ironic, isn't it. Without experimentation, can the process honestly be called science? Would this not break the rules? In some cases, however, this is precisely what we see. The process that is termed science has become a law unto itself, as it were.

Scientism is the larger issue, but the worship of idol deities, Einstein being the chief deity, is tangential. However, the central tenets of some mainstream science seem to include at least 1. selective dismissal of criteria and 2. math over experiment. This approach has resulted not in theories but in dogmas, a house of cards.

There's the ideal and there's the real. The ideal scientific process includes not merely an imagination but an understanding of all involved variables. Without which, the reality is that science is intrinsically biased. Subsequent discoveries will hopefully decrease that bias but, as always, pride prevents progress. So, with a biased methodology and biased scientists, can science truly be objective? Consider this article:
https://www.firstthings.com/article/201 ... bjectivity

Back to the article in the OP about A/2017 U1: "'[All] our data show it as an unresolved point of light, implying it is more like a rocky asteroid than an icy comet,' he said. 'There are mysteries to be solved here.'" Sounds a lot like Comet 67P. At close inspection, no such object has yet followed the "icy comet" theory, and the mystery of the "unresolved point of light" isn't so mysterious, that is, with new eyes:

Last edited by ParticleMan on Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby WickerWeaver » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:35 pm

To those so skeptical about anything and everything that Velikovsky speculated on, I'd be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's unfortunate that when he was supposed to have a chance to layout the supporting evidence he had amassed for his theories at a debate with Carl Sagan back in 1978, he was then ganged up on and unethically shot down in a show of power by Sagan and mainstream academia, not given a fair debate. Prior to it, Sagan was able to manipulate and convince Velikovsy, in his old age, to allow Sagan to gather together a panel for Velikovsky's side in addition to his own, rather than, allow Velikovsky to keep his own panel of supporters to aid him in his defense. Makes me wonder what Sagan had to fear and if indeed there was some legitimate claims Velikovsky had, else why do what he did to gang up, humiliate, and even vilify Velikovsky the way he did in 1978. I think Sagan felt like he had something to lose in that debate and took unethical measures to ensure he had all the advantage he could. (Side note: It's also interesting that Sagan went on to write his novel Contact while he was terminally ill, making me wonder if he wasn't at that stage in his life, hoping there was some grander purpose and meaning to life. If I remember right, during this same time of his later life, he grew quite remorseful with the way he had treated Velikovsky, but the damage had already been done.)

Moreover, it's interesting to me that a bit about Velikovsky is still left in print in the Old Testament Institute Student Manual as follows:
Although the majority of geologists, astronomers, and other scientists believe that even this long period is not adequate to explain the physical evidence found in the earth, there are a small number of reputable scholars who disagree. These claim that the geologic clocks are misinterpreted and that tremendous catastrophes in the earth’s history speeded up the processes that normally may take thousands of years. They cite evidence supporting the idea that thirteen thousand years is not an unrealistic time period. Immanuel Velikovsky, for example, wrote three books amassing evidence that worldwide catastrophic upheavals have occurred in recent history, and he argued against uniformitarianism, the idea that the natural processes in evidence now have always prevailed at the same approximate rate of uniformity. These books are Worlds in Collision, Ages in Chaos, and Earth in Upheaval. Two Latter-day Saint scientists, Melvin A. Cook and M. Garfield Cook, have also advocated this theory in their book Science and Mormonism. A short summary of the Cooks’ approach can be found in Paul Cracroft’s article “How Old Is the Earth?” (Improvement Era, Oct. 1964, pp. 827–30, 852).
Full context here: https://www.lds.org/manual/old-testamen ... n?lang=eng

Now, this isn't to say that Velikovsky got everything right, nor does it say that his theories are the only ones that should be considered, but the fact that his theories, or at least some aspects, are still considered to be plausible enough to remain in a CES manual approved for student study and curriculum by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve is all the more reason for me to stay open minded to what the Thunderbolts Project has put forward.

For many of the EU proponents to not have much, if anything, peer reviewed isn't cause for outright dismissal of them either, in my opinon. What would mainstream proponents have to gain by corroborating any data and evidence put forward to them that would completely take the carpet out from the mainstream cosmological model that they've established their entire careers upon? It would seem to me that the peer review process, while good in original intent, now days, has the unintentional effect of only corroborating that which advances the mainstream model and thus adds to their own credibility. That and there is so much funding that has been driven into the mainstream model now that it would make all of its proponents look foolish and non-credible if they were to corroborate anything that fundamentally opposed their mainstream model, and they themselves would likely lose funding and grants for their own pet projects as a result only to see that funding go to others already involved in experiments and projects established to survey evidence for alternative theories, such as the EU.

In defense of the mainstream model proponents however, it is my understanding (I'm no physics major) that all the successful interplanetary space probes, rockets, moon landings, satellite launches, space shuttle missions, etc...have succeeded by virtue of mathematical formulas and predictions rooted in Newton and Einstein. All that was controlled for the predicted effects of gravity, was it not?

So with all that said, I do try to remain objective with both theories and models, the casual observer that I am at this point. From all that I've read up on and watched and listened to from Thunderbolts Project and others exploring and researching EU related fields over the years, there is much to the still developing EU model that makes a whole lot more sense to me thus far than much of what is now virtually settled "fact" in the mainstream model that features the Big Bang, dark matter, dark energy, anti-matter and black holes. Much of that seems to fly in the face of LDS theology and what Joseph Smith taught by revelation. For example, it is said that black holes are so dark and dense that not even light can escape them. This is contrary to what we are taught in scripture about darkness not being able to comprehend (i.e. swallow up) light and that light always dispels darkness. It's ironic that so many mainstream astronomers and astro-physicists who are atheists will label those who are religious as absurd for believing in an deity that they are unable to directly measure and observe, but then they themselves advocate dark matter and dark energy, which also requires a belief in something they cannot directly observe, even an act of faith, lest their cosmological model fall apart. Then there is Big Bang. Joseph Smith taught that matter is eternal and cannot be created nor destroyed, only organized and re-organized. This contradicts the Big Bang concept whereby all known matter in our Universe exploded forth from a spontaneous event in empty space whereby no matter existed in that space prior to that. Or at least that's how I understand the Big Bang.

Then you have the drawing from Philo Dibble, a bodyguard of Joseph Smith...If there's any truth to the planetary configuration in that, it certainly harmonizes much better with what's been proposed by guys like Velikovsky and I think further revised by David Talbott. That is an ancient planetary configuration featuring Saturn, Venus, and Mars in closer proximity to the earth, all sharing a polar axis configuration that was once stable (the 'Golden Age') prior to something triggering it all to become unstable, creating both beautiful and catastrophic and destructive electrical arcs and plasma discharges in the process. This then provides plausible support for much of the fantastic geological features found across the Earth's service and even more dramatically across Mars' surface as being largely sculpted via catastrophism (catastrophic series of events in relatively short period of time) versus uniformitarianism (a rather peaceful, subtle, and gradual series of events spread out over billions upon billions of years). It is convincingly supported by a vast array of ancient mythology, symbols, etc around the world that all resonate with each other in their abstracts and archetypes.

Then think of the origins of Theater. Thea=Theo, as in Theology, a system of study and beliefs concerning God(s)/deity. That is to say, the first acts of theater, which took place in Greece in and around Athens, were portrayals, re-enactments, story-telling of that which was once witnessed in the heavens, the skies, where the God(s) once dwelt and interacted with the inhabitants of earth.

Speaking of inhabitants of earth, it is well known among the medical and biological community that life here on earth is dependent on electrical impulses that keep our brain and nervous system running that then keeps our heart and cellular processes going. I also think about Nephi in the Book of Mormon being prompted to extend out his hand to "shock" his brothers at one point while constructing the ship. If it's electricity that quite literally provides the spark of life, as well as being something that can reprove us and even take away life, I think it's fair to say God may indeed govern life on earth via electricity.

Also consider how it is electricity that powers so much of our modern technology that makes it possible for us to communicate the way we can, power the computers and other devices we use, give us light the way it does, and so on. Even before we relied on DC/AC electricity to power our lights, we had fire (torches, candles, oil lamps, etc), which is plasma, which contains ionized atoms spinning around so hard that electrons are able to give off energy as visible light, all responsive to electro-magnetic fields. The sun is one big ball of plasma, with discharges appearing to follow a path of electro-magnetic fields, and gives off light illuminating all the other objects within our solar system. So I would reason that all light has or is influenced by electrical forces and properties. Thus, I don't think it would be unreasonable to speculate that even the light of Christ, which is supposedly the source of all light, is electrical in nature as well. That may go back to the spark of life, even electricity, which we all have inside of us, powering our nervous system.

And if electricity can be the key force by which God could govern life on earth, why couldn't it be a key force by which he organized and governs our solar system, our galaxy, and any other galaxy he's organized out there? Indeed, maybe the Priesthood itself is a form of refined electrical power that can only be operated upon standards of worthiness and in harmony with God's will? I don't know...all speculation at this point, of course.

Anyway, getting back onto the galactic level, there is also the "Grand Sign" prophecy concerning the second coming whereby Joseph Smith declared:
“Judah must return, Jerusalem must be rebuilt, and the temple, and water come out from under the temple, and the waters of the Dead Sea be healed. It will take some time to rebuild the walls of the city and the temple, etc.; and all this must be done before the Son of Man will make His appearance. There will be wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens above and on the earth beneath, the sun turned into darkness and the moon to blood, earthquakes in divers places, the seas heaving beyond their bounds; then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of Man will come as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east.
So, if there were indeed a planetary configuration and alignment like unto that which is alleged to have existed both by the Philo Dibble document and then Immanuel Velikovsky, and more recently David Talbott and other EU/Thunderbolts Project team members and supporters, then it makes all the sense in the world to me that a restoration of ALL THINGS could include some day a restoration of this configuration, perhaps in part first before a fullness of it. This would likely go hand in hand with the "Grand Sign", with that Grand Sign not only being a catalyst for the coming of the Son of Man, but also a restoration of such an ancient planetary alignment.

This all makes the other comet recently discovered, not the one reported on in the OP, but C/2017 K2 PANSTARRS (K2), which is the one currently out in the neighborhood of Uranus, and will reach it's closest proximity to the Sun just over 4 more years in 2022 just beyond the orbit of Mars, all the more interesting to me. Given just how bright it already is with how far away it still is from the Sun, it's more favorable for the EU's theory about it's glow at such a distance from the sun than for the conventional, standard, mainstream view of comet behavior. Even IF the mainstream belief about comets were to hold out as being more truthful than EU theory, this K2 comet would still fascinate me, and makes me question if it won't play a role in the fulfillment of the "Grand Sign" prophecy.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby ParticleMan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:45 am

WickerWeaver wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:35 pm
To those so skeptical about anything and everything that Velikovsky speculated on, I'd be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater....

And if electricity can be the key force by which God could govern life on earth, why couldn't it be a key force by which he organized and governs our solar system, our galaxy, and any other galaxy he's organized out there?.... I don't know...all speculation at this point, of course.
Although the how of spiritual things will remain largely speculative, laws govern all things. Surely some of these laws can be discovered and surely some have; this is what science is (supposed to be) all about.

As much as I had tried to fit mainstream theories with doctrine, I couldn't. They never resounded true. They never tasted good, as it were. All seemed darkness. Not so with EU theory. In learning about electricity and plasma in space, I had little epiphanies of doctrines relative to light, or at least food for thought. The science with the doctrinal implications resonates true. Fully understood or not, there's something to it. It's on the right path.

Now, Anthony E. Larson has attempted to syncretize LDS doctrine and EU. Although I don't agree with all of his conclusions, I think he has done some good work. But it was his brief conversation with Hugh Nibley, recounted in one of his lecture videos, that is especially noteworthy. When Larson asked Nibley whether Velikovsky was right, Nibley said something like "Of course, but he could have used better sources." I don't know what Nibley was referring to specifically, but Velikovsky, not unlike Nibley, despite errors, has made valuable contributions.

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby JK4Woods » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:32 pm

What I find interesting is so much more is reported in the MSM regarding asteroids coming "close" to earth...
I guess all the high tech space gadgets sent up over the last decade have generated enough data and imagery. that many more popular press releases are being made about space stuff we never had information on before.

So if an asteroid a mile wide "misses" earth by a million and a half miles last week is now reprted in the MSM, does it have any affect on the world's population at large? (Maybe we've had large asteroids flying past earth for millenia.... we just didn't know...)

So is the population at large being lulled by the increasing amount of space commentary, or is it all meant to raise our awareness (and allow continued funding) of the capable technology deployed in space?

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alaris
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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby alaris » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:40 pm

JK4Woods wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:32 pm
What I find interesting is so much more is reported in the MSM regarding asteroids coming "close" to earth...
I guess all the high tech space gadgets sent up over the last decade have generated enough data and imagery. that many more popular press releases are being made about space stuff we never had information on before.

So if an asteroid a mile wide "misses" earth by a million and a half miles last week is now reprted in the MSM, does it have any affect on the world's population at large? (Maybe we've had large asteroids flying past earth for millenia.... we just didn't know...)

So is the population at large being lulled by the increasing amount of space commentary, or is it all meant to raise our awareness (and allow continued funding) of the capable technology deployed in space?
Great post. I find it humorous how there have been news articles mocking the "end of the world" predictions of Nibiru straw man style** and then will say, "In other news, yet another asteroid barely misses earth" and "In other news, more scientists believe there is a 9th, hidden planet." etc.

**taking the most extreme Nibiru believers who believe Nibiru hits us on a certain date and then blanket-applying that to everyone who believes in Nibiru

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby GrandMasterB » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:56 pm

brianj wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:11 pm
Someone tell me how it is possible, if math is nothing but black magic created to mislead people, systems have been designed to test mathematical theories, have been built, have tested those theories, and have provide exactly the results predicted mathematically.

It would help a lot if you would provide sources that are scientifically reputable, don't misrepresent generally accepted theories, and don't misrepresent or blatantly lie about current scientific models or observations.

Just one example: Fermi bubbles aren't an inexplicable mystery. Electromagnetic energy is easy to measure and test, and has been found to fit mathematical predictions. I couldn't continue listening to someone blather on about what he knows to be true, without any testable model or observational proof, contradicting actual observational data.

As I have said before, anybody who wants to call astronomy a conspiracy has to somehow explain to me how it is that I can take my telescope to a dark sky site, participate in data collection for professional astrophysicists, and find in my own observation exactly what they claim I should see.
If what you are saying is true black holes and dark matter wouldn't have had to been made up to support your perfect mathematical theories.
"When the log rolls over we're all going to die!"

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby GrandMasterB » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:39 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:45 am
WickerWeaver wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:35 pm
To those so skeptical about anything and everything that Velikovsky speculated on, I'd be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater....

And if electricity can be the key force by which God could govern life on earth, why couldn't it be a key force by which he organized and governs our solar system, our galaxy, and any other galaxy he's organized out there?.... I don't know...all speculation at this point, of course.
Although the how of spiritual things will remain largely speculative, laws govern all things. Surely some of these laws can be discovered and surely some have; this is what science is (supposed to be) all about.

As much as I had tried to fit mainstream theories with doctrine, I couldn't. They never resounded true. They never tasted good, as it were. All seemed darkness. Not so with EU theory. In learning about electricity and plasma in space, I had little epiphanies of doctrines relative to light, or at least food for thought. The science with the doctrinal implications resonates true. Fully understood or not, there's something to it. It's on the right path.

Now, Anthony E. Larson has attempted to syncretize LDS doctrine and EU. Although I don't agree with all of his conclusions, I think he has done some good work. But it was his brief conversation with Hugh Nibley, recounted in one of his lecture videos, that is especially noteworthy. When Larson asked Nibley whether Velikovsky was right, Nibley said something like "Of course, but he could have used better sources." I don't know what Nibley was referring to specifically, but Velikovsky, not unlike Nibley, despite errors, has made valuable contributions.
This is true for me too. The earth and solar system was not created by gravitational accretion over billions of years. Matter was organized by someone and not organized by its own gravitational forces. The scriptures are clear on this point. The philosophies of men regarding how this earth and life came into being is Antichrist and therefore I must reject it. In God's universe there is no need for black holes and dark matter. I find a parallel with the EU in that dark matter and black-holes are also not needed. This is one reason among many why I follow the EU theory and reject the standard model.
"When the log rolls over we're all going to die!"

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby ParticleMan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:04 pm

GrandMasterB wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:39 pm
In God's universe there is no need for black holes and dark matter. I find a parallel with the EU in that dark matter and black-holes are also not needed.
Indeed. Light organizes chaotic element, not dark.

Even new theories don't need dark matter or dark energy. From time to time, such papers are mentioned here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Suspicious0bservers/
Last edited by ParticleMan on Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Durzan
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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby Durzan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:06 pm

Meh. I can see a universe with them, and without them. Heck I can think of a perfect reason or two for why Black Holes exist from a Spiritual Perspective:

1. The Big Bang solves the equation for the Black Hole. This means that theoretically speaking each black hole could contain its own universe. Worlds (and possibilities) without number anyone?

2. Black Holes could be a way of recycling matter. IE they are the Universe's Trash Bins. Then God can take the recycled matter out of the black hole (which we wouldnt be able to detect), and use it for another creation.

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GrandMasterB
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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby GrandMasterB » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:00 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:04 pm
GrandMasterB wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:39 pm
In God's universe there is no need for black holes and dark matter. I find a parallel with the EU in that dark matter and black-holes are also not needed.
Indeed. Light organizes chaotic element, not dark.
So true! I also follow Suspicious Observer. Thanks for the links.
"When the log rolls over we're all going to die!"

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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby LightisTruth111 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:54 am

6And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

13And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

This soon occurs in this generation in a appointed time, fulfilled by objects in space. Some will escape before it occurs those worthy.

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Durzan
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Re: Interesting - object in solar system...

Postby Durzan » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:26 pm

Hey, um... guys. I hate to be the voice of reason here, but please take off your tinfoil hats. Putting your belief in pseudo science is not a good thing to be doing. Most of the time, the works seem to make more sense than mainstream science, but upon closer examination you would find that certain things do not add up with current observations. IE. they fall flat and don't work.

Best to stick with main stream science, even if it does at times seem a bit wonky. To put it another way: I believe in main stream science... in so far as it is translated correctly. For the most part it works well in its intended purpose.

I just accept that God knows what he is doing, and that just because something in science seems to contradict something akin to God's nature, doesnt mean that it actually does.


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