How close do you think we are to the Cleansing of America?

[skmo]

No idea. I can, however, demonstrate how miserable is our current condition:

Republican Nominee: Donald J. Trump
Democratic Nominee: Hillary Clinton

If that's not a cry for "Please, God, wipe us off the earth" then I don't know what is. Seriously, what were the people of Sodom and Gomorrah doing? BBQing 5 year olds for the summer meals? My mind can't wrap around anything worse than what some people in our country are doing today, or at least what some in our country are making excuses for in other parts of the world.

[LatterDayLizard]

No idea. I can, however, demonstrate how miserable is our current condition:

Republican Nominee: Donald J. Trump
Democratic Nominee: Hillary Clinton

If that's not a cry for "Please, God, wipe us off the earth" then I don't know what is. Seriously, what were the people of Sodom and Gomorrah doing? BBQing 5 year olds for the summer meals? My mind can't wrap around anything worse than what some people in our country are doing today, or at least what some in our country are making excuses for in other parts of the world.

Haaahaahaa...haa...ha...hmm.

It's funny until you realize it's not a joke. It's just soberingly true.

[gungadin500]

Short answer: not close enough!

Whoa. Let's slow down a bit here and take things slow and easy.

Whoever it is that thinks Utah is so corrupt has apparently never been to California.
dc

I'm not anti-Utah or even anti-California. I'm just pro-cleansing

I love California and Utah. Then there's the people that live there

I've lived in Utah and California and now live in Nevada. If you just look at the general populace, yes people in California are miles more liberal than any other "at large" group I've ever known of. On the other hand, there are far fewer casual members in California and Nevada in my own experience. Visiting my family in the SL valley, I get the sense that the membership there is a bit of a joke. Cliche, I know. I could be wrong and I'm definitely biased. My wife has felt for years that our kids stand a better chance of staying active if we raise them outside of Utah than if we are in Utah. I've pushed back against that idea for many years but after seeing many things within my extended family in Utah and Nevada over the past year or so, I'm starting to agree with her.

That said, California is corrupt. Utah is corrupt. Corruption is widespread. Look at what happened with Swallow. He couldn't be convicted but no one can question that some of the things he did were morally repugnant. There were obvious conflicts of interest exposed in the Utah legislature when they were looking for a landing space for the homeless shelter. And Utah County - the "last bastion" of die-hard social conservatives is the national capital of multi-level marketing "businesses." I call those corrupt. We could go on and on about Utah's problems. Bottom line: it's terrible everywhere, some places are worse than others. And the store parking lots and restaurants in Utah are just as busy on Sunday as they are anywhere else in the nation. Fact.

My message is pray for deliverance. In whatever form. The calamities will be really bad for a lot of people and are nothing to take lightly. But stop thinking about your small circle and consider the suffering that is occurring on both a national and global scale right now. There are so many innocent children being subjected to so much awfulness that they will actually be a mercy for the people who are suffering the most right now, and those calamities will open up so many missionary opportunities and many members who are casual or have distanced themselves will come back into the fold. It will be both "great" and "terrible." We've only scratched the surface of the "marvelous work and a wonder" that is described in the scriptures. In my view, the idea that "it isn't so bad," is somewhat short-sighted and callous.

[e-eye2.0]

What I'm waiting to see is a significant increase in people falling away from the church, far beyond what we see now. I don't know what will cause it, but D&C 112 23-26 indicates the cleansing will begin within the church. When I see something that appears to fit this description I will know the cleansing of the nation is imminent.

It has started but, I do agree that this is a major marker in the road. I think there will be a few things that push this into full gear -

Persecution will be number one - right now we have it pretty good. I think here in the US tollerance is being preached because they need to entrench homosexuality and any other perverse sin and have done so by preaching tollerance. Once It's full entrenched the wicked will flip the switch and persecute the saints for their stance on what it right and wrong.

Church Policy - I think the church will continue to make changes where it will upset many saints. I don't think we allow gays to get married in the temple but I do think there will be changes that upset members and they leave (you have seen this on a very small scale with, scouting, immigration, homosexuality-baptizing kids etc.) There will be other things.

The rest is a hodge podge of things, splinter groups, great and spacious building, not doing the basics to keep a testimony (pretty much things we are seeing right now).

[RocknRoll]

A bunch of the gays are already in Utah

There's always been "a bunch of the gays in Utah", just like any other place in the world. Most of them were born here and, by golly, some were even raised in loving, believing LDS families. And, believe it or not, some are even faithful, temple recommend holding, members. Imagine that!

Wow! The hate and ignorance seeping out of your ears is almost visible with the naked eye.

[Tbone]

Wow! The hate and ignorance seeping out of your ears is almost visible with the naked eye.

"Hate and ignorance"... seriously? Maybe Z2100 is full of hate and ignorance (though I highly doubt it), but good grief it always sounds so dumb whenever progressives start accusing others of "hate and ignorance" just because they have a different viewpoint. It comes across as close minded and immature and only serves to shut off any further discussion that could have helped both sides find any type of common ground.

Despite your snark, the first part of your comment was probably pretty good.

[RocknRoll]

"Hate and ignorance"... seriously? Maybe Z2100 is full of hate and ignorance (though I highly doubt it), but good grief it always sounds so dumb whenever progressives start accusing others of "hate and ignorance" just because they have a different viewpoint. It comes across as close minded and immature and only serves to shut off any further discussion that could have helped both sides find any type of common ground.

Despite your snark, the first part of your comment was probably pretty good.

What makes you think I’m a “progressive”? I’m not by the way. Just because someone has a different viewpoint doesn’t mean their posts don’t come off as hateful and ignorant. So, were you looking to have further discussion with Z2100 about “the bunch of gays” that have come to Utah and the “sinful” mayor that SLC elected? Be my guest.

[Tbone]

"Hate and ignorance"... seriously? Maybe Z2100 is full of hate and ignorance (though I highly doubt it), but good grief it always sounds so dumb whenever progressives start accusing others of "hate and ignorance" just because they have a different viewpoint. It comes across as close minded and immature and only serves to shut off any further discussion that could have helped both sides find any type of common ground.

Despite your snark, the first part of your comment was probably pretty good.

What makes you think I’m a “progressive”? I’m not by the way. Just because someone has a different viewpoint doesn’t mean their posts don’t come off as hateful and ignorant. So, were you looking to have further discussion with Z2100 about “the bunch of gays” that have come to Utah and the “sinful” mayor that SLC elected? Be my guest.

You certainly came off as one since publicly shaming opponents as hateful and ignorant is an over-used progressive tactic, but by reading through some of your other comments I can see why you are so passionate about this. So I was wrong about you, just as I believe you are wrong about Z2100 and Spaced_Out.

[Spaced_Out]

A bunch of the gays are already in Utah

There's always been "a bunch of the gays in Utah", just like any other place in the world. Most of them were born here and, by golly, some were even raised in loving, believing LDS families. And, believe it or not, some are even faithful, temple recommend holding, members. Imagine that!

Wow! The hate and ignorance seeping out of your ears is almost visible with the naked eye.

The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah - will bring about the punishments of Sodom and Gomorrah - What count is what God thinks. Faithfull gays holding temple recommends. There is no such thing repentance or the mental disorder has not been properly addressed.

[Z2100]

What I'm waiting to see is a significant increase in people falling away from the church, far beyond what we see now. I don't know what will cause it, but D&C 112 23-26 indicates the cleansing will begin within the church. When I see something that appears to fit this description I will know the cleansing of the nation is imminent.

It has started but, I do agree that this is a major marker in the road. I think there will be a few things that push this into full gear -

Persecution will be number one - right now we have it pretty good. I think here in the US tollerance is being preached because they need to entrench homosexuality and any other perverse sin and have done so by preaching tollerance. Once It's full entrenched the wicked will flip the switch and persecute the saints for their stance on what it right and wrong.

Church Policy - I think the church will continue to make changes where it will upset many saints. I don't think we allow gays to get married in the temple but I do think there will be changes that upset members and they leave (you have seen this on a very small scale with, scouting, immigration, homosexuality-baptizing kids etc.) There will be other things.

The rest is a hodge podge of things, splinter groups, great and spacious building, not doing the basics to keep a testimony (pretty much things we are seeing right now).

People getting angry and leaving the church is part of the sifting of the wheat & tares. I would never leave the church. You could say that I really believe and expect those calamities to happen during my lifetime. When the plague goes down, I do not want to die.

[Michelle]

Whoa. Let's slow down a bit here and take things slow and easy.

Whoever it is that thinks Utah is so corrupt has apparently never been to California.
dc

I'm not anti-Utah or even anti-California. I'm just pro-cleansing

I love California and Utah. Then there's the people that live there

I've lived in Utah and California and now live in Nevada. If you just look at the general populace, yes people in California are miles more liberal than any other "at large" group I've ever known of. On the other hand, there are far fewer casual members in California and Nevada in my own experience. Visiting my family in the SL valley, I get the sense that the membership there is a bit of a joke. Cliche, I know. I could be wrong and I'm definitely biased. My wife has felt for years that our kids stand a better chance of staying active if we raise them outside of Utah than if we are in Utah. I've pushed back against that idea for many years but after seeing many things within my extended family in Utah and Nevada over the past year or so, I'm starting to agree with her.

That said, California is corrupt. Utah is corrupt. Corruption is widespread. Look at what happened with Swallow. He couldn't be convicted but no one can question that some of the things he did were morally repugnant. There were obvious conflicts of interest exposed in the Utah legislature when they were looking for a landing space for the homeless shelter. And Utah County - the "last bastion" of die-hard social conservatives is the national capital of multi-level marketing "businesses." I call those corrupt. We could go on and on about Utah's problems. Bottom line: it's terrible everywhere, some places are worse than others. And the store parking lots and restaurants in Utah are just as busy on Sunday as they are anywhere else in the nation. Fact.

My message is pray for deliverance. In whatever form. The calamities will be really bad for a lot of people and are nothing to take lightly. But stop thinking about your small circle and consider the suffering that is occurring on both a national and global scale right now. There are so many innocent children being subjected to so much awfulness that they will actually be a mercy for the people who are suffering the most right now, and those calamities will open up so many missionary opportunities and many members who are casual or have distanced themselves will come back into the fold. It will be both "great" and "terrible." We've only scratched the surface of the "marvelous work and a wonder" that is described in the scriptures. In my view, the idea that "it isn't so bad," is somewhat short-sighted and callous.

Trying to decide if I should post this or not . . .

We have a joke in our family: You should only live in Salt Lake County if you are a prophet or an apostle, all others we know seem to leave the church, sooner or later, when they move there.

Still, the same problem seems to be migrating south in the last few years as well.

We were both raised outside of Utah and had always planned to leave after school, but really, we can't think where we would go with the current state of the world. It all seems to be the same difference right now. So here we stay.

[Hivetyrant36]

From my own personal revelation given to me over the course of this year, I think it may be extremely close at hand. Within 5 years, but probably the next few months. I'll give you guys a hint about the signs of the times though. Read the sermon on the mount, Joseph Smith - Matthew. Here is a key; Son of Man = planet. The Son of Man in ancient civilizations was a planet who was thought to be the son of the Man of Holiness, which is in many religions identified as Saturn, but before the rings were there. There is a new movement in science outside the corrupt mainstream that believes that the Earth was carried to Sol in the atmosphere of Saturn, and all the ancient myths, the dragon, the Japanese four beasts, Hercules, Medusa, are direct signs of a devastating close approach with another planet. Joseph Smith said that the Grand sign of the coming of the Son of Man would be called a comet or planet by the world.

Two men stand in a field. One man is taken and the other is left with no rhyme or reason. This is not the rapture, it is death, and even the saints cannot escape it. It is given unto some to know the season of the second coming. Smith also said that when Jesus said "no man knoweth," he meant then and there in 30AD, no man on Earth knew.

If you are interested in this line of thought, I highly recommend mormonprophecy.com and the Thunderbolts Project on youtube.

[Hivetyrant36]

Define "cleansing of America"? I've heard that there is a hepatitis A scare in California these days, and that some cities are sending a cleaning crew to spray down certain public places with disinfectants, so if that's the cleansing that is referred to, then it is happening now, as I write this. (Of course, California is not the whole of America.)

Cleansing of America from evil, much like the destruction in Zerahemla.

[brianj]

Define "cleansing of America"? I've heard that there is a hepatitis A scare in California these days, and that some cities are sending a cleaning crew to spray down certain public places with disinfectants, so if that's the cleansing that is referred to, then it is happening now, as I write this. (Of course, California is not the whole of America.)

This shouldn't need to be defined. We have ample prophecies from modern day prophets about an almost total societal collapse that will be accompanied by a second civil war. These events will destroy the greater works of evil, clearing the way for Zion to be built and the final preparations for the Second Coming.

[dafty]

This shouldn't need to be defined. We have ample prophecies from modern day prophets about an almost total societal collapse that will be accompanied by a second civil war. These events will destroy the greater works of evil, clearing the way for Zion to be built and the final preparations for the Second Coming.

Do these modern day prophets quote any scripture to back their claims up? I don't perceive any societal collapse, nor any second civil war. Instead, I see a golden age of mankind about to dawn. Perhaps I'm smoking the wrong weeds? Either that, or perhaps they ain't prophets? If they don't speak about any Josephite, then they ain't prophets. He's the prophetic mountain in our future, the absolutely biggest thing any true prophet can see. If these "prophets" can't see him, then they simply aren't prophets.

...may I add,or are constrained from preaching about Elias/DS. Since half of the members dont keep law of chastity, wow etc, I could see why they would keep quiet. milk before meat.

[brianj]

This shouldn't need to be defined. We have ample prophecies from modern day prophets about an almost total societal collapse that will be accompanied by a second civil war. These events will destroy the greater works of evil, clearing the way for Zion to be built and the final preparations for the Second Coming.

Do these modern day prophets quote any scripture to back their claims up? I don't perceive any societal collapse, nor any second civil war. Instead, I see a golden age of mankind about to dawn. Perhaps I'm smoking the wrong weeds? Either that, or perhaps they ain't prophets? If they don't speak about any Josephite, then they ain't prophets. He's the prophetic mountain in our future, the absolutely biggest thing any true prophet can see. If these "prophets" can't see him, then they simply aren't prophets.

So... are you saying there is no scripture other than what you accept as scripture? That a prophet can only reveal new doctrine that isn't really new, but has been revealed previously? That if they don't speak of what you expect to hear about they aren't really prophets?

I sustain all members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as prophets, seers, and revelators. That includes all present members of those quorums, all that have been in those quorums since I joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and all who have been in those quorums since Joseph Smith was directed to organize the Quorum of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. In some cases I only sustain those members until they were removed from their quorum, and I do not sustain anybody who places limits on what those men are allowed to reveal but doesn't have authority to make such pronouncements.

[Z2100]

Define "cleansing of America"? I've heard that there is a hepatitis A scare in California these days, and that some cities are sending a cleaning crew to spray down certain public places with disinfectants, so if that's the cleansing that is referred to, then it is happening now, as I write this. (Of course, California is not the whole of America.)

This shouldn't need to be defined. We have ample prophecies from modern day prophets about an almost total societal collapse that will be accompanied by a second civil war. These events will destroy the greater works of evil, clearing the way for Zion to be built and the final preparations for the Second Coming.

The mass shootings are a sign that the beginning stages of the Cleansing of America have begun. The wicked will kill the wicked, but the good will also suffer...

[Cc07]

Do not listen to those who have not been ordained and/or set apart to their Church calling and are not acknowledged by common consent of the members of the Church.

Be aware of organizations, groups, or individuals claiming secret answers to doctrinal questions that they say today’s apostles and prophets do not have or understand.

M. Russell Ballard

[Hivetyrant36]

Do not listen to those who have not been ordained and/or set apart to their Church calling and are not acknowledged by common consent of the members of the Church.

Be aware of organizations, groups, or individuals claiming secret answers to doctrinal questions that they say today’s apostles and prophets do not have or understand.

M. Russell Ballard

Except today's ordained apostles do not even understand the teaching of Joseph Smith. Or at the very least, they do not teach certain aspects of his teachings, but that may be more because the people have previously rejected it. Smith made it a point not to teach anybody sacred things unless they were ready, lest they rise against the instructor. The same thing might be happening here.

[Hivetyrant36]

Define "cleansing of America"? I've heard that there is a hepatitis A scare in California these days, and that some cities are sending a cleaning crew to spray down certain public places with disinfectants, so if that's the cleansing that is referred to, then it is happening now, as I write this. (Of course, California is not the whole of America.)

This shouldn't need to be defined. We have ample prophecies from modern day prophets about an almost total societal collapse that will be accompanied by a second civil war. These events will destroy the greater works of evil, clearing the way for Zion to be built and the final preparations for the Second Coming.

The mass shootings are a sign that the beginning stages of the Cleansing of America have begun. The wicked will kill the wicked, but the good will also suffer...

I can see why you think that, but I have to disagree. The "Cleansing of America" isn't so much an event as it is something that is labeled for better understanding. Christ tells us that after we see the sign of the Abomination of Desolation the death will begin, but the wars and contentions preceding it are essentially business as usual, for the end is not yet, but by and by.

[Z2100]

Define "cleansing of America"? I've heard that there is a hepatitis A scare in California these days, and that some cities are sending a cleaning crew to spray down certain public places with disinfectants, so if that's the cleansing that is referred to, then it is happening now, as I write this. (Of course, California is not the whole of America.)

This shouldn't need to be defined. We have ample prophecies from modern day prophets about an almost total societal collapse that will be accompanied by a second civil war. These events will destroy the greater works of evil, clearing the way for Zion to be built and the final preparations for the Second Coming.

The mass shootings are a sign that the beginning stages of the Cleansing of America have begun. The wicked will kill the wicked, but the good will also suffer...

I can see why you think that, but I have to disagree. The "Cleansing of America" isn't so much an event as it is something that is labeled for better understanding. Christ tells us that after we see the sign of the Abomination of Desolation the death will begin, but the wars and contentions preceding it are essentially business as usual, for the end is not yet, but by and by.

Also, in the next Abomination of Desolation, Jerusalem will be destroyed again, and then the temple will be rebuilt soon after. This could all take place during and after World War 3, in which isn't far away. We're ssooooo close to the tribulations and I can't take the suspense!

[Hivetyrant36]

This shouldn't need to be defined. We have ample prophecies from modern day prophets about an almost total societal collapse that will be accompanied by a second civil war. These events will destroy the greater works of evil, clearing the way for Zion to be built and the final preparations for the Second Coming.

The mass shootings are a sign that the beginning stages of the Cleansing of America have begun. The wicked will kill the wicked, but the good will also suffer...

I can see why you think that, but I have to disagree. The "Cleansing of America" isn't so much an event as it is something that is labeled for better understanding. Christ tells us that after we see the sign of the Abomination of Desolation the death will begin, but the wars and contentions preceding it are essentially business as usual, for the end is not yet, but by and by.

Also, in the next Abomination of Desolation, Jerusalem will be destroyed again, and then the temple will be rebuilt soon after. This could all take place during and after World War 3, in which isn't far away. We're ssooooo close to the tribulations and I can't take the suspense!

I know right! The waiting game is the hardest part. I believe that we will see an intense winter that will peak in 2021 that is combined with a plague. A few months ago I would have said that the cleansing would begin soon, but now, I say that the cleansing has begun. New disease from rats are beginning to infect humans, 70% crop losses this year alone, more seismic activity than ever before recorded. Look to the sky. If Nasa or any other space agency announces a planet or comet on a course for Earth, you will know that it is the sign of the coming of the Son of Man. The planet itself is the Abomination of Desolation.

[Benjamin_LK]

It could happen quickly at any time. But when you look at how sudden big disasters could happen. It gets even worse considering how a growing approval of rebellion against God exists in today’s world.

[oxbloodangel]

Short answer: not close enough!

Whoa. Let's slow down a bit here and take things slow and easy.

Whoever it is that thinks Utah is so corrupt has apparently never been to California.
dc

Man, that place is like a liberal lovefest

Utah be about like Cal in a few years.

This. I grew up in Arizona and went to college in Utah. Both states' people act like anyone from Cali is automatically so cool and worldly. Too much, we aspire to be like the great cities of the world. And that's exactly what Salt Lake got.

[Benjamin_LK]

No idea. I can, however, demonstrate how miserable is our current condition:

Republican Nominee: Donald J. Trump
Democratic Nominee: Hillary Clinton

If that's not a cry for "Please, God, wipe us off the earth" then I don't know what is. Seriously, what were the people of Sodom and Gomorrah doing? BBQing 5 year olds for the summer meals? My mind can't wrap around anything worse than what some people in our country are doing today, or at least what some in our country are making excuses for in other parts of the world.

I can see them building giant pits with bonfires where they toss thousands of people into these Fires before the full cleansing happens. Hey it happened on Ammonihah and implied to have happened in cities worthy of total destruction (Jacobugath, Zarahemlah, Kishkumen) at the time of Christ's death, I get the feeling that it will happen again.