After September 23rd.........what now?

Discuss the last days, Zion, second coming, emergency preparedness, alternative health, etc.
Z2100
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Z2100 »

alaris wrote: October 19th, 2017, 12:33 pm
Spaced_Out wrote: October 19th, 2017, 1:22 am
Silver Pie wrote: October 18th, 2017, 9:41 pm
Hivetyrant36 wrote: October 13th, 2017, 1:07 pm The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.
Didn't Sarah Menet say something about a "hard winter" in one of her books? I wish I could remember. I don't have her book anymore, so can't check it.
Yes and many others have written that things fall apart then there is an extremely bad winter where people are forced to be house bound and after the winter emerge and starvation sets in, bu the starvation actual started prior to that due to drought, storms, calamities, fires etc... Many things are coming together and pointing towards potential disaster, just around the corner.

Every year I look at the long-term winter weather forecast for the US. Last I looked was below average on the east but warmer to the south west. That was a long time back thing could of changed. Updated forcast https://www.weather.gov/phi/longrange
Not too much going on there, but things can change rapidly.
Snow hit the Sierra's early this year:

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/0 ... of-summer/

That news article is from 9/21. Might could be an indicator of a harsh winter, could be another sign to go along with 9/23 of the many accompanying events, or it could be nothing.

Also this:

Also, another CME during a solar minimum. This time while Jupiter and Mercury were 1o apart. 9/23 scoffers hate this fact, but not only have I and others stated that nothing overt may happen on 9/23 but that the sign doesn't end on 9/23. The movements of Jupiter, Mercury, Mars, Venus, and the Sun are all very interesting in the weeks that follow 9/23. I've spoken about how each eclipse / pass Jupiter in turn as Jupiter heads to the scales of justice (Libra.) A massive CME that occurs just as Mercury passes Jupiter ... during a solar minimum....this is not yet another another another coincidence.
TWO PLANETS AND A SOLAR STORM: Yesterday, Oct. 18th, something behind the eastern edge of the sun exploded. A massive cloud of plasma (CME) raced away from the blast site -- right into a bright conjunction. Jupiter and Mercury were less than 1o apart when the CME passed by:

Credit: The Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO)

If this meeting of planets happened in the night sky, it would have been widely observed. Because it was so close to the glaring sun, no human could see it. Only the orbiting Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, with its sun-blocking coronagraph, could record such a scene.

The CME missed everything. It sailed wide of Mercury, Jupiter, and Earth as well. Forecasters expect no geomagnetic storms as a result of the blast.
http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php ... &year=2017


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... N3kR5xkMnw

At 44 seconds you can see Jupiter and Mercury to the left and they pass just as the CME erupts. Amazing.

More explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uBdLSJhE54
Isn't it amazing how this is all drawn-out?

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Alaris
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Alaris »

cme_c3__anim_lite.gif
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Jupiter and Mercury are on the left side. They align just as the second burst shoots out.

Imagine a trump blaring along with the solar flare as the two planets align.

Hivetyrant36
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Hivetyrant36 »

Silver Pie wrote: October 18th, 2017, 9:41 pm
Hivetyrant36 wrote: October 13th, 2017, 1:07 pm The events happening around the world are indeed signs of the coming of the Son of Man, but not a sigh of 9/23. 9/23 is false.
The next few years will have famine and destruction as we enter into the grand solar minimum. This year alone we've lost about 70% of the USAs wheat crops to summer frost, and grapes aren't looking good either. The minimum is said to peak in 2021 according to several space agencies around the world. Winter is coming.
Didn't Sarah Menet say something about a "hard winter" in one of her books? I wish I could remember. I don't have her book anymore, so can't check it.
Winter seems to be a theme. Words from Joseph Smith Matthew;
17 Therefore, pray ye the Lord that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day;

18 For then, in those days, shall be great tribulation on the Jews, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, such as was not before sent upon Israel, of God, since the beginning of their kingdom until this time; no, nor ever shall be sent again upon Israel.

Silver
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Silver »

Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?

dafty
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by dafty »

Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:39 pm Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?
Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks

Silver
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Posts: 5247

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Silver »

dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:50 pm
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:39 pm Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?
Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks
Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

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inho
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by inho »

Who saw and was able to interpret the star of Betlehem? Based on Bible, we are only aware of the wise men. Based on Book of Mormon, the people there saw a new star too.
What was the purpose of the sign for those people who saw it and understood it? For the wise men it was a sign to leave and greet the Savior. In BoM the night without darkness along with the star played an important role. The sign saved the believers from the pre-ordered slaughter.
The point is that the sign had a specific purpose for all those that we know to have understood it. It wasn't just an advertisement of coming things without any further meaning.

If there has been a sign about the coming of the Davidic Servant, what was the purpose of it? What were those who were able to interpret it suppose to do?

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Alaris
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Alaris »

inho wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:32 pm Who saw and was able to interpret the star of Betlehem? Based on Bible, we are only aware of the wise men. Based on Book of Mormon, the people there saw a new star too.
What was the purpose of the sign for those people who saw it and understood it? For the wise men it was a sign to leave and greet the Savior. In BoM the night without darkness along with the star played an important role. The sign saved the believers from the pre-ordered slaughter.
The point is that the sign had a specific purpose for all those that we know to have understood it. It wasn't just an advertisement of coming things without any further meaning.

If there has been a sign about the coming of the Davidic Servant, what was the purpose of it? What were those who were able to interpret it suppose to do?
Interesting post, inho. I have wondered about the backstory of the wise men and what happened to those who believed and even witnessed the majesty of Baby Jesus. Did they follow Him or watch Him throughout His life? Certainly the Star of Bethlehem had significance on both sides of the veil. There were righteous servants who were ready receive when the Savior began His ministry--how many were made ready to support Him either directly or indirectly by the sign of His birth.

Likewise there are more than a few who believe 9/23 was the sign of the Davidic Servant. The Davidic Servant is also referred to as being hidden in the prophesies, so wouldn't the sign of his advent / spiritual birth be perhaps ...hidden to most? Isaiah 28 gives some clue as to the state of Ephraim when he comes, so one can assume there that much of Ephraim will not be ready. The Lord basically says that Ephraim is latched onto milk and has not learned line upon line as it should have -
Isaiah 28:9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/isa/28?lang=eng

I hate to say it but Isaiah 28 is at least in part being fulfilled right here on LDSFF. The naysayers, the scoffers, and the antagonizers all seek to fill their own cups by stepping on others having listed to the spirit of the adversary--some are even addicted to this process: faultfinding, mocking, antagonizing - all of those itches can only be scratched at the expense of others. The drunken crown of pride of Ephraim. Can one declare something "not a sign from God" without wearing that crown?

"We have enough" they say as they try to cram every prophesy into the things they feel they already know - rather than seeking the Lord's mysteries they seek to shut down those who try to seek and share with others. Those who are overcome with pride, latched on to milk may hate my even saying it and feel compelled to argue this very point and with great irony underscored. That is why those who chose captivity according to the captivity of the devil are no longer the only one behind the wheel. And the guilty take the truth to be hard for it cutteth them to the very center.

dafty
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Posts: 428

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by dafty »

Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:15 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:50 pm
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:39 pm Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?
Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks
Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)
With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x

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GrandMasterB
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by GrandMasterB »

dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 3:08 pm
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:15 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:50 pm
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:39 pm Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?
Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks
Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)
With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x
What is the source of the doctrine of the Davidic Servant? Maybe this is Donald Trump? Could be anyone!

dafty
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Posts: 428

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by dafty »

GrandMasterB wrote: December 21st, 2017, 3:39 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 3:08 pm
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:15 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:50 pm
Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks
Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)
With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x
What is the source of the doctrine of the Davidic Servant? Maybe this is Donald Trump? Could be anyone!
He has hardly been hidden in the shadow of The Lords hand...nor has he laboured in vain ...the source is Isaiah and BoM

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Alaris
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Alaris »

GrandMasterB wrote: December 21st, 2017, 3:39 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 3:08 pm
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:15 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:50 pm
Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks
Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)
With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x
What is the source of the doctrine of the Davidic Servant? Maybe this is Donald Trump? Could be anyone!
Isaiah 41-53 is a great place to start. www.isaiahexplained.com is another great resource by Avraham Gileadi where he has commentary analysis and an alternate translation. I'm getting deja vu GrandmasterB - didn't I already send some study suggestions your way?

D&C 85:7
D&C 113:3-4
Ezekiel 37,44
Jeremiah references to "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS"
Isaiah 11
Isaiah 9
Isaiah 28
Isaiah references in 2 Nephi and by the Lord in 3 Nephi - The marred servant, the hidden servant
Malachi 3
Moroni quoting some of the above in JSH
Moses 7:61-63
Revelation 3,7,11,12,14
Daniel 9
The Book of Enoch (ethiopian) chapters 39-70 (Elect One references)
The Apocalypse of Abraham (reference to the Elect One, though I strongly feel the angel Jahoel (also spelled Jaoel, Yahoel, Yaoel, etc.) who tarries with David is the Davidic Servant. Isaiah 51:9 refers to Rahab which can also mean Leviathan, and Jahoel cites the Leviathan as his dominion. Isaiah 51:10 references the Davidic Servant as the one who helped Moses deliver Israel from the other side of the veil, and Jahoel tells Abraham he is basically assigned to Abraham to oversee his posterity - all of this adds up with Ezekiel 37 and Daniel 9 where the Davidic Servant becomes a prince forever over Israel (joining the 7 other princes or dispensation heads.) Anyway, I didn't meant to get that deep!

That's just off the top of my head. There's a lot more ... in Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Hosea, Jeremiah. Messiah Ben Yosef and Messiah Ben David is the Jewish belief in two Messiahs - one spiritual and one physical / temporal. The Davidic Servant is Messiah Ben David, though that's pretty obvious!

dafty
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Posts: 428

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by dafty »

GrandMasterB wrote: December 21st, 2017, 3:39 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 3:08 pm
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:15 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:50 pm
Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks
Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)
With both point 1 and 2 I was only trying to make a point, that God may give a sign of something happening in the future and since nothing great happens straight after the sign usually is dismissed as fake/not a real sign. Yet we know that the star of Bethlehem meant something etc. J.Pratt in his article regarding the sign argues, that it also happened 6 months previous to 'establishing the kingdom of God' yet only the closest to Joseph knew about it. Im not saying he got it all right in his article, but simply showing that there might be a sign from God and not many will be able to interpret it as to when and what transpired.
With regards to points 3 and 4, He is a hidden servant(as per Isaiah). God protects him by hiding him in the shadow of his hand. Therefore theres no special person that knows who he is(besides John the Beloved I presume). I also believe that he is the marred servant. So he is hidden servant then gets marred and astonishes many. Well it doesnt make sense to me unless he raises to prominance(so goes from hidden to well known by many) then gets marred. In Isaiah, he complains he laboured in vain but finds consolation in fact that his work and recompense is with God. I believe, after his trials, he will become prominent through performing his work(as a recompense from God) then will get marred, then healed and start gathering to Zion. I believe his work(recompense) will last approximately 7 years before getting marred,in simmilitude to J.S., simply because he will accomplish what J.S. started.
these are quick thoughts, all based on study of Old Testament prophecies and reading others writings on the subject. I may well be wrong with assumptions, I do realise that my friend x
What is the source of the doctrine of the Davidic Servant? Maybe this is Donald Trump? Could be anyone!
Also: Psalms 110:2 where ROD is sent out of Zion..so its defo LDS

Z2100
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Z2100 »

Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:15 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:50 pm
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:39 pm Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?
Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks
Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

I was just thinking about the Davidic Servant. If he was born into this world on September 23rd, then he would be alive at this very moment. Isn't that cool.

dafty
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Posts: 428

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by dafty »

Z2100 wrote: December 22nd, 2017, 8:46 am
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 2:15 pm
dafty wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:50 pm
Silver wrote: December 21st, 2017, 1:39 pm Anybody change their minds on this? Anybody losing their mind regarding this topic? Anybody feel wiser now? Anybody feel embarrassed now?
Not that I you have aimed this question at me alone, however, I'll simply reiterate what I have said before.How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. I have never claimed Rapture, Nibiru nor any of such thing to transpire on the day. thanks
Portions of your argument contain puzzles.

1. How many people were aware of and followed the Star of Bethlehem to greet the Saviour? (Your question does not consider that perhaps not everyone, regardless of their level of righteousness, was supposed to see and follow the star to see baby Jesus. Would you only be satisfied if the whole world showed up in Bethlehem, traveling from wherever they were, to arrive just in time for the Savior's birth? Did the star even appear in the night sky of every location around the world? Did God condemn in advance every person living in parts of the world where the star was not visible? What if it were cloudy?)

2. How many people ware aware of Joseph Smith's 1st vision? (This question is problematic in the same way as #1 above. Should a poor farmer in China have made arrangements to be in the Sacred Grove on the morning of the First Vision? Would Heavenly Father and Jesus even appear if a bunch of other people were in the woods that day?)

3. Similarly, the ascent of the Davidic Servant/his birth that I believe was symbolised by the sign, wouldnt be initially known to masses. (Why? Are only special people supposed to see the signs? Does that include prophets and apostles? If so, why don't they talk about them?)

4. JS had 7 years of prep before his ministry and I believe this would be simmilar. (Why? How did you come to this assumption?)

I was just thinking about the Davidic Servant. If he was born into this world on September 23rd, then he would be alive at this very moment. Isn't that cool.
have u read: https://intheshadowofhishand.wordpress.com ? Very interesting take on the "servants". Also, I used to consider the 23rd to symbolise the actual/physical birth of the servant but then I came accross a convincing counter argument(which I have managed to forget about since lol).The only thing I can think of at the moment, is that 'awake and arise' happens after 'labouring in vain' all his life and obviously a child born recently would not have that experience. Have a read through the blog and let me know ur thoughts x

Juliet
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Juliet »

Don't worry, all those fearful days are over. All is well in Zion. Peace and safety my friends, peace and safety.

dafty
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Posts: 428

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by dafty »

LDS Anarchist wrote: January 4th, 2018, 4:23 pm
dafty wrote: December 22nd, 2017, 9:10 am have u read: https://intheshadowofhishand.wordpress.com ?
Bryan Lang, the author of that blog, appears to be a Snufferite. At least, his list of favorite blogs is of Snufferite blogs, so I assume he is one, too.
I asked him about it couple of years back and indeed he showed interest in it initially but already in 2016 he started to have his doubts about Denver. We all make mistakes 🤣

dafty
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by dafty »

To be honest let the truth come from whence it may...Im more interested to know what do you guys think about the idea of the servants from Revelation 2&3, being actual servants in the last days? Did John write the letters to them and that was that, or maybe indeed there was a hidden future meaning to it all, in simmilitude to Isaiahs Cyrus, Root,Bird of prey etc?

watchthewatchers
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Posts: 33

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by watchthewatchers »

Isaiah 28 can be just as readily turned right around 180 degrees onto those that say they are watching for the signs.
Verse 1: "Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower"
The crown of pride is being the one to get the glory for making a correct prediction.
The drunkards of Ephraim are those that continually drink themselves into a drunken obsession with chasing alleged signs.
The fading flower is when their predictions continue to never pan out.
But, they are so addicted to the whole endeavor, that they quickly scamper right back to that bar hall and start all over again.
Wrap it all up with verse 7: "But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment."

Reviewing over many of the predictions of the past few years in these forums, and there are some blaring patterns. Everyone that had some type of prediction, based it on the signs they saw. They based it on very firm and unwavering convictions. They all made claim to having personal revelation that told them their predictions were correct.
And none of them have ever been correct.
Is it mocking to point out to them what has happened previously, and they are drowning in the same quagmire as all those previous? Has it ramped up to the point of necessitating mocking and ridicule, because the sign followers think that somehow they are different, and their experiences are more reliable, and they just refuse to listen time and time again to anything because they are deafened by their own drunken 'MY imminent one is THE one' slurs? When in reality, every sign watcher that has graced this place has been exactly like the ones before, and the new one provides nothing more distinct than all the rest to solidify that their guess is going to become true.
Its just as readily plausible that the Lord is inspiring the scoffers to point out how the sign predicting drunkards of Ephraim are erring in vision and stumbling in judgment. The more loud and drowning out that warning siren, the better to prevent others from being carried off with strange doctrines not of the Lord. If ones predictions and guesses truly are correct, and truly do come from the Lord, there should be no concern from any contrary voices.

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Alaris
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Alaris »

watchthewatchers wrote: January 5th, 2018, 12:45 pm Isaiah 28 can be just as readily turned right around 180 degrees onto those that say they are watching for the signs.
Verse 1: "Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower"
The crown of pride is being the one to get the glory for making a correct prediction.
The drunkards of Ephraim are those that continually drink themselves into a drunken obsession with chasing alleged signs.
The fading flower is when their predictions continue to never pan out.
But, they are so addicted to the whole endeavor, that they quickly scamper right back to that bar hall and start all over again.
Wrap it all up with verse 7: "But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment."

Reviewing over many of the predictions of the past few years in these forums, and there are some blaring patterns. Everyone that had some type of prediction, based it on the signs they saw. They based it on very firm and unwavering convictions. They all made claim to having personal revelation that told them their predictions were correct.
And none of them have ever been correct.
Is it mocking to point out to them what has happened previously, and they are drowning in the same quagmire as all those previous? Has it ramped up to the point of necessitating mocking and ridicule, because the sign followers think that somehow they are different, and their experiences are more reliable, and they just refuse to listen time and time again to anything because they are deafened by their own drunken 'MY imminent one is THE one' slurs? When in reality, every sign watcher that has graced this place has been exactly like the ones before, and the new one provides nothing more distinct than all the rest to solidify that their guess is going to become true.
Its just as readily plausible that the Lord is inspiring the scoffers to point out how the sign predicting drunkards of Ephraim are erring in vision and stumbling in judgment. The more loud and drowning out that warning siren, the better to prevent others from being carried off with strange doctrines not of the Lord. If ones predictions and guesses truly are correct, and truly do come from the Lord, there should be no concern from any contrary voices.
This is all poppycock when you consider its pride that leads to mocking those looking for signs of times and when you consider some, including me, who still believe 9/23 was a sign stated from the beginning that it may come and go with none the wiser. There was nothing overtly predicted and it would have been much funner to discuss speculation without the odd behaviors of those trying to put words in my and others mouths to make it a false prophecy of woes. I would have had the stones to admit nothing happened to me personally at least if I didn't have two witnesses on 9/23 that it indeed was a special day in God's sight, but those who love to mock and belittle may never know as signs follow those that believe.

dafty
captain of 100
Posts: 428

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by dafty »

watchthewatchers wrote: January 5th, 2018, 12:45 pm Isaiah 28 can be just as readily turned right around 180 degrees onto those that say they are watching for the signs.
Verse 1: "Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower"
The crown of pride is being the one to get the glory for making a correct prediction.
The drunkards of Ephraim are those that continually drink themselves into a drunken obsession with chasing alleged signs.
The fading flower is when their predictions continue to never pan out.
But, they are so addicted to the whole endeavor, that they quickly scamper right back to that bar hall and start all over again.
Wrap it all up with verse 7: "But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment."

Reviewing over many of the predictions of the past few years in these forums, and there are some blaring patterns. Everyone that had some type of prediction, based it on the signs they saw. They based it on very firm and unwavering convictions. They all made claim to having personal revelation that told them their predictions were correct.
And none of them have ever been correct.
Is it mocking to point out to them what has happened previously, and they are drowning in the same quagmire as all those previous? Has it ramped up to the point of necessitating mocking and ridicule, because the sign followers think that somehow they are different, and their experiences are more reliable, and they just refuse to listen time and time again to anything because they are deafened by their own drunken 'MY imminent one is THE one' slurs? When in reality, every sign watcher that has graced this place has been exactly like the ones before, and the new one provides nothing more distinct than all the rest to solidify that their guess is going to become true.
Its just as readily plausible that the Lord is inspiring the scoffers to point out how the sign predicting drunkards of Ephraim are erring in vision and stumbling in judgment. The more loud and drowning out that warning siren, the better to prevent others from being carried off with strange doctrines not of the Lord. If ones predictions and guesses truly are correct, and truly do come from the Lord, there should be no concern from any contrary voices.
and your point being,...what exactly?

watchthewatchers
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Posts: 33

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by watchthewatchers »

The point is, dafty, that when the same scriptures can be applied in complete contradiction to one's stance, one's stance has no scriptural support at all. If there's no scriptural support, all we're left with is the philosophies of men.

watchthewatchers
captain of 10
Posts: 33

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by watchthewatchers »

"it may come ... nothing overtly predicted ... speculation ... signs follow those that believe"

That is so wishy-washy. You claim to have had witnesses, but you won't even stand unwavering and declare that what you have really is. All you have is a bag full of "We'll see!". Drunks and red-necks arguing on front porches make just as "true" claims. From your own words, you barely have a belief in what you peddle, much less any conviction. If you don't have enough faith that your speculations will become reality, why should anybody else?
As I pointed out, you're just sounding like all those before you. They all had their heavenly witnesses, they all had their life altering events.
And nothing they speculated was true.
No, you don't have any signs. No matter how much you believe. You have nothing special nor profound nor unique. Those that came before you had mountains more belief than you do, and they didn't get any signs, either. You might put in a micro sized fine print that you're just guessing about all of this, and then you proceed to bury it under a haystack of alleged divine inspiration. It literally is bordering on the edges of straight up deception. Especially when you throw a fit if any "naysayers" don't buy into it.
You demand the benefit of hawking your wares; don't be surprised when we take the benefit of pointing out how saturated with snake oil it is.

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Alaris
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Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by Alaris »

watchthewatchers wrote: January 7th, 2018, 1:41 pm "it may come ... nothing overtly predicted ... speculation ... signs follow those that believe"

That is so wishy-washy. You claim to have had witnesses, but you won't even stand unwavering and declare that what you have really is. All you have is a bag full of "We'll see!". Drunks and red-necks arguing on front porches make just as "true" claims. From your own words, you barely have a belief in what you peddle, much less any conviction. If you don't have enough faith that your speculations will become reality, why should anybody else?
As I pointed out, you're just sounding like all those before you. They all had their heavenly witnesses, they all had their life altering events.
And nothing they speculated was true.
No, you don't have any signs. No matter how much you believe. You have nothing special nor profound nor unique. Those that came before you had mountains more belief than you do, and they didn't get any signs, either. You might put in a micro sized fine print that you're just guessing about all of this, and then you proceed to bury it under a haystack of alleged divine inspiration. It literally is bordering on the edges of straight up deception. Especially when you throw a fit if any "naysayers" don't buy into it.
You demand the benefit of hawking your wares; don't be surprised when we take the benefit of pointing out how saturated with snake oil it is.
Have you heard of the scripture that references pearls and swine?

Would the swine in Christs day have believed a shepherds witness of a baby wrapped in swaddling clothes in a manger?

When the spirit prompts me to share, I will to whom God wills.... And I have. Yet for some odd reason I do not feel compelled to share in the slightest despite your kindest, gentlest invitation.

Your false conditions placed upon me to discredit my actual "nothing may happen" prediction you can look up on my blog is, well sad. I'm sure there are better hobbies than haranguing those who are looking for signs of the Lord's coming.

Signs do follow those that believe. That's in the scriptures. Here's a good one :
Ether 12:6 And now, I, Moroni, would speak somewhat concerning these things; I would show unto the world that faith is things which are hoped for and not seen; wherefore, dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith

watchthewatchers
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Posts: 33

Re: After September 23rd.........what now?

Post by watchthewatchers »

Yes, I know the scripture. And I've watched those that professed greater belief than you do. What has actually happened? A whole lot of nothing. Some of those that came before you, and were shown to be completely wrong, still believe. And there are still no signs.
Then here you come, with even less belief, and experiences that were no more profound than any of the rest.

The spirits prompts me, and God wills me, to share that you have nothing more than any of all the rest that were bogus. You don't have any pearls. All you are is a scratched record.

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